Al Mugro: which defeat is worse? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Al Mugro: which defeat is worse?

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:04 PM
US Open ’08, 3R: (q)G.Muller 7-6(3), 6-3, 6-7(5), 6-7(6), 5-7
Roland Garros ’11, 1R: (q)L.Kubot 6-3, 6-2, 6-7(3), 6-7(5), 4-6


Against Muller (ranked 130):

3rd set: three points away
4th set: double match point at 6:4 in the TB
5th set: two games away at 4:4 and 5:5, at 5:6 lost his serve for the first time in match

3 hours 54 minutes; Almagro won 12 points more


Against Kubot (ranked 122):

3rd set: 5:4* (30-15), 6:5 (30 all)
4th set: 4:2* (40-15), *6:5 (30-15)
5th set: 3:0*, three games away (Q-bot led 5:3)

3 hours 50 minutes; Almagro won 19 points more

***
Please post similar case if you know, because I can't evoke out of memory (a guy who lost twice, despite a 2-0 lead, three sets in a row "being close" to win each of them) :wavey:

Pirata.
05-24-2011, 09:22 PM
That Paris match against Rafa. Served for the match and had at least 5 MP :o

He was up 40-0 when serving for the match.

MayerFan
05-24-2011, 09:25 PM
I can't believe you're comparing a no-one like Kubot to a GS QFist.

r2473
05-24-2011, 09:28 PM
I like Almagro. He's always had the talent. I thought he had turned the corner mentally this year.

It's just one loss. Hell, Rafa "almost" lost, right?

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:29 PM
I can't believe you're comparing a no-one like Kubot to a GS QFist.

I compare similar defeats against qualifiers.

Muller was no-one before the US Open 2008 btw.

MaxPower
05-24-2011, 09:44 PM
Both are bad but not knowing about Almagros form going into US Open I got to go with the Kubot defeat. He is evidently in excellent form as shown during the clay season. Both the 3rd set loss and the 4th set loss were just stuff you can't make up.

Maybe it was the shades of the Muller match haunting him or something because you would expect a top player to just settle down, take some extra time and finish it off. This loss will also haunt him

oranges
05-24-2011, 09:44 PM
I compare similar defeats against qualifiers.

Muller was no-one before the US Open 2008 btw.

Not really, he had a number of high profile wins before that.

To answer the question, this one is much worse. Worse opponent, on his favorite surface, no brainer for me.

straitup
05-24-2011, 09:45 PM
Definitely this one...I didn't think Kubot would do much damage to Almagro, especially on the clay

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:48 PM
Not really, he had a number of high profile wins before that.


It's ridiculous to put the discussion into this direction.

Before the US Open 2008 Muller had two ATP finals, just like Kubot.

straitup
05-24-2011, 09:50 PM
It's ridiculous to put the discussion into this direction.

Before the US Open 2088 Muller had two ATP final, just like Kubot.

But he did have wins against Rafa at Wimbledon (back when grass was faster and Rafa wasn't good on the stuff) and Roddick at the USO...Kubot hasn't had comparable wins

MayerFan
05-24-2011, 09:52 PM
I compare similar defeats against qualifiers.

Muller was no-one before the US Open 2008 btw.

A junior GS champion, ex-ATP finalist...

Much better than Kubot.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:53 PM
But he did have wins against Rafa at Wimbledon (back when grass was faster and Rafa wasn't good on the stuff) and Roddick at the USO...Kubot hasn't had comparable wins

That's true but it's rather poor saying that Kubot is no-one in comparison to Muller.

MayerFan
05-24-2011, 09:55 PM
That's true but it's rather poor saying that Kubot is no-one in comparison to Muller.

If you've watched them play you wouldn't say that.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:56 PM
A junior GS champion, ex-ATP finalist...

Much better than Kubot.

Highest ranking in singles:

41 - Kubot
59 - Muller

ATP finals:

2 - Kubot
2 - Muller

Highest ranking in doubles:

7 - Kubot
147 - Muller

Prize money:

$2,008,197 - Kubot
$1,379,444 - Muller

They are peers actually, I don't get it how Kubot is no-one in comparison to Muller having earned $600,000 more :shrug:

yesh222
05-24-2011, 09:57 PM
This one is worse, but I don't blame it on Almagro. He (and whoever advised him to) was an idiot for playing Nice, strsight up. He got tired and a little disinterested and couldn't pull anything out.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 09:57 PM
If you've watched them play you wouldn't say that.

You're pathetic, welcome on my ignore list.

You're sixth :hatoff:

MayerFan
05-24-2011, 10:00 PM
You're pathetic, welcome on my ignore list.

You're sixth :hatoff:

I guess you just can't take someone disagreeing with you.

Every poster in this thread thinks you can't compare both players, except for you.

LocoPorElTenis
05-24-2011, 10:05 PM
This one is worse... RG (the GS on Mugro's best surface by far) and first round to boot.

Adri89
05-24-2011, 10:06 PM
Muller is a better player than Kubot, with a large margin.

Anyway, I like both players and when on they both have an enjoyable game to watch.
I think the defeat of today is the worst for Almagro. Kubot was just too bad in the first two sets with so many easy UEs. Actually, Almagro didn't have anything special to do.
He was always up in the third, but especially serve for the match at 6-5 and wasn't he 30-15 in this game ? Then from 3-0 to 3-5. After catching 3 titles this year on clay, I think he can be really disappointed with this performance, much more than a loss at the USO where he doesn't have great results compare to his two QFs in Paris.

Sapeod
05-24-2011, 10:07 PM
The Kubot loss is the most disgusting loss I've ever seen.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:08 PM
He was always up in the third, but especially serve for the match at 6-5 and wasn't he 30-15 in this game ?

It was in the 4th set.

Adri89
05-24-2011, 10:11 PM
It was in the 4th set.

Yeah, I know : I was in the crowd this afternoon! :D
But wasn't sure of my memory for the correct score in this game!

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I know : I was in the crowd this afternoon! :D
But wasn't sure of my memory for the correct score in this game!

I had a problem with the stream of this match and saw only a couple points :o

Was Almagro's fatigue a factor at the end? In the 4th set tie-break I thought he was fit enough to beat Q-bot easily in the decider...

Adri89
05-24-2011, 10:22 PM
I had a problem with the stream of this match and saw only a couple points :o

Was Almagro's fatigue a factor at the end? In the 4th set tie-break I thought he was fit enough to beat Q-bot easily in the decider...

Well, to be honest, I never thought Almagro was going to lose this match until Kubot led 5/3 at the end!

As I said, in the first two sets, Kubot was just an UEs machine. He was missing by far so easy shot. Almagro had just a better defensive game than him and was making him errors. But even in those sets, despite he was dominating easily Almagro was nervous, talking to himself, unhappy with the umpire, his first serve... well classic Almagro's show on court :D

Kubot has a very good net game and made some beautiful dropshots which disturb Almagro's game during all the match. Starting the third set, the fact is Kubot did less error and fight hard during all match despite the scoreline, he didn't give up. In the fourth, Almagro was the dominant player and I was so sure he will finish the match at 6-5, couldn't believe my eyes to see him losing a second TB in a row! After that, the crowd was totally in the match with Kubot. Again I didn't think that Kubot could come back from 0-3, it's the most amazing comeback I've never seen with my eyes ! Almagro was tired at the end, but so was Kubot who played the qualifications, so... I guess he shouldn't play at Nice. But I think the main factor is mental : Almagro put too much pressure on him after his good results on clay of this year, he was I guess expecting a great result here (he had a very good draw by the way).

straitup
05-24-2011, 10:22 PM
That's true but it's rather poor saying that Kubot is no-one in comparison to Muller.

Certainly true.

hotdog
05-24-2011, 10:25 PM
This one was a far worse loss...he was a 1.12 fav today...only 1.43 in NY.

hotdog
05-24-2011, 10:26 PM
Kubot is a decent player...far better than Muller ever was.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:26 PM
couldn't believe my eyes to see him losing a second TB in a row!

Honestly I believed it would happen because Almagro loses two tie-breaks in a row more often than anyone (last year 4 times).

Roadmap
05-24-2011, 10:26 PM
Almugro is a new kind of mugging machine. A more advanced mugging machine sent from the future to portray tennis at its absolute muggiest

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:29 PM
Almugro is a new kind of mugging machine. A more advanced mugging machine sent from the future to portray tennis at its absolute muggiest

:haha:

oranges
05-24-2011, 10:34 PM
It's ridiculous to put the discussion into this direction.

Before the US Open 2008 Muller had two ATP finals, just like Kubot.

Perhaps you think it's comparable if one has wins over Nadal and Roddick in slams, I don't :shrug: Muller has always been a dangerous guy for many early on, Kubot isn't. Hence, this loss is way worse IMO, would be even if it were not on clay, let alone when it is.

philosophicalarf
05-24-2011, 10:34 PM
Muller's best was off the charts superior to Kubot - he had one of the best serves of the last decade.

Agrajag
05-24-2011, 10:36 PM
This one was a far worse loss...he was a 1.12 fav today...only 1.43 in NY.

When the match started, I took Kubot @13. Probably the luckiest win of my life as he traded as high as 300(!!!!) during the match.

Way worse loss today IMO. Mugro on a fast hardcourt against a huge server is always going to be tough for him. I think he also had a bad match up today (hence the bet), but he should never have allowed the Kube back in the match.

I must say that Kubots second serve return today was godlike. Almagro also gave him huge credit in the presser.

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:39 PM
Perhaps you think it's comparable if one has wins over Nadal and Roddick in slams, I don't :shrug: Muller has always been a dangerous guy for many early on, Kubot isn't. Hence, this loss is way worse IMO, would be even if it were not on clay, let alone when it is.

Muller is a player with bigger potential than Kubot and bigger scalps but I didn't want to discuss it here.

I'm curious which defeat is worse by any means and would like to know who suffered two defeats with a scoreline of this type, among active players I'm rather convinced that no-one.

oranges
05-24-2011, 10:43 PM
Muller is a player with bigger potential than Kubot and bigger scalps but I didn't want to discuss it here.

I'm curious which defeat is worse by any means and would like to know who suffered two defeats with a scoreline of this type, among active players I'm rather convinced that no-one.

But it plays a huge role in evaluating which is a worse defeat, so it's diffiuclt to avoid the issue ;)

Voo de Mar
05-24-2011, 10:46 PM
But it plays a huge role in evaluating which is a worse defeat, so it's diffiuclt to avoid the issue ;)

I depends on which aspect people press accent. I suppose I'd make exactly the same thread if Almagro lost 7-6, 6-3, 6-7, 6-7, 5-7 to Nadal or Federer instead of Muller.

I thought about the scoreline not about players, funny thing that both defeats were made by qualifiers with similar ranking.

hotdog
05-24-2011, 10:46 PM
Muller's best days are behind him. Injuries have taken their toll. I would still say Kubot is a better player.

MayerFan
05-24-2011, 11:00 PM
Perhaps you think it's comparable if one has wins over Nadal and Roddick in slams, I don't :shrug: Muller has always been a dangerous guy for many early on, Kubot isn't. Hence, this loss is way worse IMO, would be even if it were not on clay, let alone when it is.

He's the only person in the world who thinks you can compare both of these losses.

n8
05-24-2011, 11:24 PM
In terms of scoreline, the Muller loss was worse. In terms of odds, the Kubot loss was much worse.

Henry Chinaski
05-25-2011, 12:03 AM
This was worse because like some people have said because it's clay and because Muller on his day is a much better player than Kubot.

Granted, his "day" arrives about twice every 2 years but his A game is just ridiculous.

misty1
05-25-2011, 12:22 AM
this one

muller is a much better player than kubot

MayerFan
05-25-2011, 12:27 AM
This was worse because like some people have said because it's clay and because Muller on his day is a much better player than Kubot.

Granted, his "day" arrives about twice every 2 years but his A game is just ridiculous.

Muller's talent is probably very close to GS winner talent. Too bad he never managed to consistently show that.

fast_clay
05-25-2011, 01:24 AM
this is worse by, with all due respect, a country mile...

granted that muller's overall pedigree is no where near as good as it should be... but he can rise and sustain a level that is unplayable - in best of five's mind you - and, an unplayable all-court attacking level at that... too versatile when on...

no disrespect to kubot... a workmanlike game such as his deserves respect...

MayerFan
05-25-2011, 01:35 AM
this is worse by, with all due respect, a country mile...

granted that muller's overall pedigree is no where near as good as it should be... but he can rise and sustain a level that is unplayable - in best of five's mind you - and, an unplayable all-court attacking level at that... too versatile when on...

no disrespect to kubot... a workmanlike game such as his deserves respect...

Watch out, you'll be put on his ignore list. Together with pretty much everyone else in this thread. :o

fast_clay
05-25-2011, 01:46 AM
Watch out, you'll be put on his ignore list. Together with pretty much everyone else in this thread. :o

yeah i noticed that, not sure why... i know you are a noob mate, but you seem like a fairly informed poster...

well.. i say informed by mtf standards... which is kinda meh...

Johnny Groove
05-25-2011, 02:03 AM
Voo, you should make a thread like this for Verdasco.

You might have to make a few threads, though, not enough poll options.

Deivid23
05-25-2011, 05:13 AM
Ridiculous thread and ridiculous question. Grow a brain

vn01
05-25-2011, 10:21 AM
against muller. hilarious :haha: :haha: :haha:

The Magician
05-25-2011, 10:41 AM
This one was worse, but the worst of all was his win against Ginepri at the USO. That was maybe the worst match I've ever seen, definitely a huge mugathon from both.

Voo de Mar
05-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Voo, you should make a thread like this for Verdasco.



I've made this thread about Almagro because I don't know any other case that a player has lost two 5-setters with tie-breaks in the 3rd and 4th set, on the other hand the only player (based on my memory) who won twice this way is Lapentti, he even won three times 3rd&4th tie-break sets in 5-setters but for the first time lost in the fifth.

Mungo
05-25-2011, 10:57 AM
The worst defeat for Mugro was the day of his birthdate

Li Ching Yuen
05-25-2011, 11:09 AM
Kubot is a guy that lives off of coming on top in matches and tournaments that reach critical level of mugness while Muller is a talent with a huge game that has had his career chopped by injuries.

You do the math.

dombrfc
05-25-2011, 11:12 AM
Nicolas :o

So sad that this predictably happens.