Why do foreign players get less money in Futures and Challengers? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why do foreign players get less money in Futures and Challengers?

amirbachar
05-23-2011, 03:35 PM
Is that in order to compensate the organizers that might get less crowd?
It can't possibly be a tax, because some player lose money an shouldn't be taxed at all.
That is the case now:
http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011%20ATP%20Point%20Table.pdf

I think it's bad for the tour.

Action Jackson
05-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Should we bring back apartheid.

Orka_n
05-23-2011, 03:38 PM
In that case many players wouldn't even afford to travel to the tournament in question, which would lead to a drop in the field quality, which might also reduce the attendance. :shrug:
The players on this level need all the economical help they can get.

oranges
05-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Yeah, those bastards are so swimming in money, shouldn't be paid at all

Corswandt
05-23-2011, 03:41 PM
to compensate the organizers that gets less crowd?
That is the case now:
http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2011%20ATP%20Point%20Table.pdf

Isn't that 30% deduction due to withholding of tax?

Nathaliia
05-23-2011, 03:41 PM
You don't have a rule for it, when Andy Murray played doubles in Bratislava challenger last year did he attract more or less spectators than Martin Klizan?

In Szczecin Koellerer's matches are more packed than any Pole's ties. Extra money for that?

And yes - there exists a tax rule which makes the money prize different.

amirbachar
05-23-2011, 04:06 PM
Ok, so maybe I misinterpret the rule and it's relate to taxes.
Are you sure that foreign players don't get taxed twice as it currently stands?

VIPer7
05-23-2011, 04:09 PM
You don't have a rule for it, when Andy Murray played doubles in Bratislava challenger last year did he attract more or less spectators than Martin Klizan?

Are you sure you meant Andy Murray?? I only see his brother Jamie in the draw (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?e=444&y=2010&t=d).

Nathaliia
05-23-2011, 04:14 PM
lol I must have been drunk when I thought I saw Andy together with his brother in there. Or I might have skimmed some Polish sports website and they got it wrong and made me remember wrong ;)

But this way or another, sometimes very good players get WCs to challengers and surely attract more crowd than the home players ;)

Johnny Groove
05-23-2011, 06:03 PM
What tax rule is this?

In the USA, only the upper echelons of earners ($100,000 annual income or so, not 100% sure) pay 30% in taxes or more.

Guys like this would pay either no taxes or a much lower figure than 30%.

Even though I am a USA citizen and this does not affect me, this is utter bullshit. I'd be pissed if I was a foreign player. Maybe the USTA is doing this to make the foreign players not want to play USA futures and challengers in order to promote more American players? I say, as an American citizen, tough shit. If the American players can't win, they don't deserve to be in the main draw.

Either way, fucking stupid decision by the USTA but what else is new?

yesh222
05-23-2011, 06:16 PM
Futures I understand. Most players don't make any sort of living off Futures events (prize money is just way too low) and usually Futures are for players to improve their ranking so they can move up to bigger events. A country should want most of their own players in their Futures events. But Challengers are right below the main tour, players come from worldwide for Challengers events, and most players ranked 75-300 make a good portion of their livelihood off of Challengers. If the 30% deduction is not some tax thing then I would be very upset about it existing in Challengers, but Futures I understand.

The Magician
05-23-2011, 06:20 PM
Can we pay Nadull less money because he puts the crowd to sleep? Or does the crowd physically have to leave the stadium to count ;)

amirbachar
05-23-2011, 07:50 PM
I've been rethinking and it can't be a tax thing...

amirbachar
05-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Can anyone confirm this?

Topspindoctor
05-24-2011, 04:54 PM
Can we pay Nadull less money because he puts the crowd to sleep? Or does the crowd physically have to leave the stadium to count ;)

Why not? He'd still make more in a week than you in your whole life.

Orka_n
05-24-2011, 05:00 PM
:haha: You changed the thread title and what you wrote in the OP when you realized people weren't agreeing with you. Ridiculous.

amirbachar
05-24-2011, 05:38 PM
:haha: You changed the thread title and what you wrote in the OP when you realized people weren't agreeing with you. Ridiculous.

I didn't express any opinion before... I was just presenting the current situation.
What made you think I think it's right?

Orka_n
05-24-2011, 06:17 PM
I didn't express any opinion before... I was just presenting the current situation.
What made you think I think it's right?A person doesn't start a thread to suggest something that he doesn't think is a good idea himself. Come on now. :rolleyes:

amirbachar
05-24-2011, 09:10 PM
A person doesn't start a thread to suggest something that he doesn't think is a good idea himself. Come on now. :rolleyes:

But that is the situation right now... Just look at the link in the OP - it's not a proposal.
If anything, I would propose to cancel the discrimination!

Orka_n
05-24-2011, 10:04 PM
But that is the situation right now... Just look at the link in the OP - it's not a proposal.
If anything, I would propose to cancel the discrimination!You edited the OP yesterday after you wrote post #13, so now it seems like everyone agrees with you. It's really too bad neither me, oranges or AJ quoted you on what the OP originally said.

Action Jackson
05-25-2011, 04:14 AM
You edited the OP yesterday after you wrote post #13, so now it seems like everyone agrees with you. It's really too bad neither me, oranges or AJ quoted you on what the OP originally said.

My first point made enough reference to it.

networthy
05-25-2011, 05:48 AM
Isn't that 30% deduction due to withholding of tax?

Yes, it's because of tax withholding:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=180219,00.html

boughtmypoints
05-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Yes, it's because of tax withholding:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=180219,00.html

Tax withholdings potentially affects all players, whether they be Americans or not.

If you're a foreigner, you can obtain a U S social security number for tax filing and be exempted from tax withholding. Just because 30% is withheld does not mean that will be your effective tax rate. Tour level players who do not claim exemption from withholding will collect all their receipts for tennis related expenditures and hand to their accountants or business managers for claiming back withheld taxes.

For the pedigreed Futures players, the prize money listed is only nominal. Very often their association and various sponsors will match
any prize money won.

amirbachar
05-25-2011, 05:09 PM
You edited the OP yesterday after you wrote post #13, so now it seems like everyone agrees with you. It's really too bad neither me, oranges or AJ quoted you on what the OP originally said.

My original OP was something like that: should foreign players get less money in Futures and Challengers?
I can't see why it sounds like I suggest to keep this situation that foreign players do get less money. Then I just gave a possible explanation to the situation (to compensate the organizers).
Maybe I miss phrased it if few people think like you.

And to the topic, since it just a tax thing and not an ITF/ATP policy, the thread can be closed...