Djokovic and Nadal take Domination to New Level [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Djokovic and Nadal take Domination to New Level

n8
05-19-2011, 12:59 AM
The following graph shows the total number of ranking points* accumulated by the year's top two players up to the end of the fifth Masters 1000 event each year since 2003 and a selection of years in the 1990s. Thanks feuselino (http://www.menstennisforums.com/member.php?u=12395) for constructing the graph and help with the corresponding article (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level).

http://statracket.net/images/mf_chart1.jpg
*The current ranking system was used for all years except Davis Cup points were excluded. Federer's points shown in blue, Nadal's in orange and Djokovic's in green.

For an article about Djokovic's and Nadal's supreme domination this year, see here (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level). There you'll also find another feuselino's chart showing head-to-head of the world's top two versus the rest of the field by year.

Djokovic and Nadal are the first pair of players to share all six big events (Masters 1000s, Grand Slams and World Tour Finals) to start the year since Sampras and Medvedev in 1994. They're also the first pair to contest four Masters 1000 finals in one year. Discuss.

Sri
05-19-2011, 01:17 AM
It's basically thanks to Nole's unbeaten run, Rafa has been more effective in previous seasons than in 2011.

Filo V.
05-19-2011, 02:00 AM
Yeah, but Rafa has made 6 straight finals. Even with he being in poor form, he's way better than #3 right now. And the question is, is that good for the sport? Is it good or bad that two guys keep making all the finals? And winning all of the big events?

Sri
05-19-2011, 02:04 AM
Yeah, but Rafa has made 6 straight finals. Even with he being in poor form, he's way better than #3 right now. And the question is, is that good for the sport? Is it good or bad that two guys keep making all the finals? And winning all of the big events?
All I'm saying is it is common for Rafa to be winning six straight titles at this time of the year. It is clay season, isn't it?

"he's way better than #3 right now"

haha.. Fed haterer!

--

The surprise package for 2011 has been Djokovic's run. Which is why we're seeing the unique stats.

Filo V.
05-19-2011, 02:14 AM
Oh no, I agree, Djokovic is the star of the season. I was just saying, Rafa is on a different level compared to everyone not named Nole. And they both are on two different planets compared to everyone else. Rafa is doing what is expected (well outside of the losses) in terms of being right up there on clay, but you would think that someone outside of these two could break these two up in ONE big event, but they haven't done it.

I'm not knocking Federer but he hasn't shown he can do it, that's just the reality.

Sri
05-19-2011, 02:16 AM
Well, Fed is in Olderer mode. Murray is, well, Murray. DelPot is injured again and Soderling is inconsistent as ever.

The hope can be Fed and Soderling pick up their games for RG as they've done in the past.

Seingeist
05-19-2011, 02:19 AM
I was so excited when Soderling had such an excellent start this year and was extremely disheartened to see his form fall off in some of the later tournaments :sad:. Nole needs to lend him some of his confidence. I would love it if Soderling would enter the fray and become a serious contender.

Farenhajt
05-19-2011, 02:45 AM
Yeah, but Rafa has made 6 straight finals. Even with he being in poor form, he's way better than #3 right now. And the question is, is that good for the sport? Is it good or bad that two guys keep making all the finals? And winning all of the big events?

It was absolutely catastrophic for the sport when those two were Fedal. It is absolutely miraculous for the sport now when those two are Djodal, and with Djokovic kicking serious ass.

SheepleBuster
05-19-2011, 02:53 AM
The following graph shows the total number of ranking points* accumulated by the year's top two players up to the end of the fifth Masters 1000 event each year since 2003 and a selection of years in the 1990s. Thanks feuselino (http://www.menstennisforums.com/member.php?u=12395) for constructing the graph and help with the corresponding article (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level).

http://statracket.net/images/mf_chart1.jpg
*The current ranking system was used for all years except Davis Cup points were excluded. Federer's points shown in blue, Nadal's in orange and Djokovic's in green.

For an article about Djokovic's and Nadal's supreme domination this year, see here (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level). There you'll also find another feuselino's chart showing head-to-head of the world's top two versus the rest of the field by year.

Djokovic and Nadal are the first pair of players to share all six big events (Masters 1000s, Grand Slams and World Tour Finals) to start the year since Sampras and Medvedev in 1994. They're also the first pair to contest four Masters 1000 finals in one year. Discuss.

Yes. This chart shows the decline of Rafael Nadal. Now that he is owned by Novak, the domination in this rivalry will reach a new level. Djokovic will bake Nadal a few sticks in the next few meetings. :devil:

fast_clay
05-19-2011, 03:09 AM
subtract 'and' and 'nadal' from the sentence and replace it with an 's' at the end of 'take' and we have an accurate sentence...

abraxas21
05-19-2011, 03:37 AM
Yeah, but Rafa has made 6 straight finals. Even with he being in poor form, he's way better than #3 right now. And the question is, is that good for the sport? Is it good or bad that two guys keep making all the finals? And winning all of the big events?

maybe it isn't that rafa is in poor form but simply that djokovic has simply outplayed him.

it's hard to say that nadal is playing badly when he has reached the last six finals and has only lost to one particular player.

it's funny how tennis works because if djokovic wasn't around at his best this year, nadull would have probly won 6 straight tournaments prior to RG and every MTFer would be saying that Nadal is playing his best tennis ever.

DrJules
05-19-2011, 07:02 AM
Nadal has had his worst start to a season since 2004 with only 1 MS to start of FO.

This domination is about the 1 GS and 4 MS won by the Serb.

The gap between Djokovic and Nadal is almost double the Nadal and Ferrer gap:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=10959430&postcount=1

buzz
05-19-2011, 07:52 AM
obviously if someone has an unbeaten streak and another gets to about 5 finals and you compare precisely that period with other years you will find they are more dominant. But i doubt the top2 will have a lead at year end over the best Fedal year

n8
05-19-2011, 09:46 AM
maybe it isn't that rafa is in poor form but simply that djokovic has simply outplayed him.

it's hard to say that nadal is playing badly when he has reached the last six finals and has only lost to one particular player.

it's funny how tennis works because if djokovic wasn't around at his best this year, nadull would have probly won 6 straight tournaments prior to RG and every MTFer would be saying that Nadal is playing his best tennis ever.

Exactly, people are understating Nadal's 2011 achievements as they are quite small compared to Djokovic's.

Five consecutive Masters 1000 finals is an all time record and Nadal has accumulated more points to this stage of the season than he did in 2010, 2006 and 2005 (using the same point system). It's also the most total points he's ever gotten from Indian Wells and Miami combined.

There are lots of articles about how good Djokovic has been this year but Nadal deserves more credit!

obviously if someone has an unbeaten streak and another gets to about 5 finals and you compare precisely that period with other years you will find they are more dominant. But i doubt the top2 will have a lead at year end over the best Fedal year

True, that's why I brought it up now.

n8
05-19-2011, 09:55 AM
Yeah, but Rafa has made 6 straight finals. Even with he being in poor form, he's way better than #3 right now. And the question is, is that good for the sport? Is it good or bad that two guys keep making all the finals? And winning all of the big events?

Casual tennis fans love top end rivalries so it's good for organisers of Grand Slams. Also great for Djokovic and Nadal fans obviously.

Not so good for everyone else. Events with neither of these two will suffer. Overall I'd say it's bad for the sport.

Nole fan
05-19-2011, 10:06 AM
maybe it isn't that rafa is in poor form but simply that djokovic has simply outplayed him.

it's hard to say that nadal is playing badly when he has reached the last six finals and has only lost to one particular player.

it's funny how tennis works because if djokovic wasn't around at his best this year, nadull would have probly won 6 straight tournaments prior to RG and every MTFer would be saying that Nadal is playing his best tennis ever.

+1

Filo V.
05-19-2011, 10:07 AM
Nole has outplayed him, much of that having to do with Rafa playing poorly. Rafa has not played great tennis of late, but his tennis is just naturally better than everyone outside of Djokovic. Nole has exposed his level in their match-ups.

Filo V.
05-19-2011, 10:09 AM
It was absolutely catastrophic for the sport when those two were Fedal. It is absolutely miraculous for the sport now when those two are Djodal, and with Djokovic kicking serious ass.

Why is that? Not a Fed fan I guess :lol:

Filo V.
05-19-2011, 10:12 AM
Casual tennis fans love top end rivalries so it's good for organisers of Grand Slams. Also great for Djokovic and Nadal fans obviously.

Not so good for everyone else. Events with neither of these two will suffer. Overall I'd say it's bad for the sport.

Understandable. I'd say it's neutral. Djokovic's season has been special and it's something everyone wants to continue following, can he keep winning? Then with Rafa, can he take the throne away from Djokovic?

But at the same time, tennis is more than two players and seeing the same two guys every final will lead to burn-out. Personally I like it, I just want to see Rafa beating him at the French!

n8
05-19-2011, 10:35 AM
Understandable. I'd say it's neutral. Djokovic's season has been special and it's something everyone wants to continue following, can he keep winning? Then with Rafa, can he take the throne away from Djokovic?

But at the same time, tennis is more than two players and seeing the same two guys every final will lead to burn-out. Personally I like it, I just want to see Rafa beating him at the French!

When I think about it, it's been a great build up for Roland Garros. If Djokovic wins, then it's undisputed, if Nadal wins, then he keeps one very important edge over his rival.

Given all that has happened in the lead up, I think a Nadal-Djokovic final would be huge! If they keep dominating after RG then things won't look so good.

zlaja777
05-19-2011, 10:37 AM
maybe it isn't that rafa is in poor form but simply that djokovic has simply outplayed him.

it's hard to say that nadal is playing badly when he has reached the last six finals and has only lost to one particular player.

it's funny how tennis works because if djokovic wasn't around at his best this year, nadull would have probly won 6 straight tournaments prior to RG and every MTFer would be saying that Nadal is playing his best tennis ever.

I agree. When your player loses 4 straight times to guy that he beat in 2/3 matches his fans had to find an excuse and they stick to the one that Rafa is in bad form although they are awere that this season was good so far with all 5 MS finals.

romismak
05-19-2011, 10:53 AM
Yes this domination is unbelievable - until now, not even Fedal in their best domination were more dominating as thi duo - from 6 biggest tennis events this year-AO,and 5 masters - 4 have the same finalists - Nole - Rafa, and in 1 of this event Nole was missing. Roger and Rafa weren´t never together so dominant in first 6 biggest events. Actually they played just 2x finals not even 3 and not 4:D - they played 2006- Mc, Rome , 2007- MC, Hamburg, 2008 - MC, Hamburg and 2009- AO, Madrid- so their best year was 2009 - they together played 1GS and 1 Master 1000 tournament. But never from this 6 biggest unti RG played more than 2... So this Nole -Rafa domination is unique - it is like no other guy can make it to the finals until they are no.1 and No.2 seeded. But the truth is that Rafa isn´t having such bad season- already he has a lot of points, only wasn´t able to win more than 1 clay Master tournament, what was long time ago since he won only 1.

Matt01
05-19-2011, 11:47 AM
It was absolutely catastrophic for the sport when those two were Fedal.


Who said that apart from a few trolls on MTF? :confused:

n8
05-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Yes this domination is unbelievable - until now, not even Fedal in their best domination were more dominating as thi duo - from 6 biggest tennis events this year-AO,and 5 masters - 4 have the same finalists - Nole - Rafa, and in 1 of this event Nole was missing. Roger and Rafa weren´t never together so dominant in first 6 biggest events. Actually they played just 2x finals not even 3 and not 4:D - they played 2006- Mc, Rome , 2007- MC, Hamburg, 2008 - MC, Hamburg and 2009- AO, Madrid- so their best year was 2009 - they together played 1GS and 1 Master 1000 tournament. But never from this 6 biggest unti RG played more than 2... So this Nole -Rafa domination is unique - it is like no other guy can make it to the finals until they are no.1 and No.2 seeded. But the truth is that Rafa isn´t having such bad season- already he has a lot of points, only wasn´t able to win more than 1 clay Master tournament, what was long time ago since he won only 1.

:D

Garson007
05-19-2011, 12:25 PM
it's funny how tennis works because if djokovic wasn't around at his best this year, nadull would have probly won 6 straight tournaments prior to RG and every MTFer would be saying that Nadal is playing his best tennis ever.
:yeah: A thing most of MTF seem to ignore. Clearly Nadal has to be in a tailspin, got nothing to do with Djokovic. :rolleyes:

Garson007
05-19-2011, 12:27 PM
Nole has outplayed him, much of that having to do with Rafa playing poorly. Rafa has not played great tennis of late, but his tennis is just naturally better than everyone outside of Djokovic. Nole has exposed his level in their match-ups.
:spit: Cry more.

Start da Game
05-19-2011, 12:48 PM
The following graph shows the total number of ranking points* accumulated by the year's top two players up to the end of the fifth Masters 1000 event each year since 2003 and a selection of years in the 1990s. Thanks feuselino (http://www.menstennisforums.com/member.php?u=12395) for constructing the graph and help with the corresponding article (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level).

http://statracket.net/images/mf_chart1.jpg
*The current ranking system was used for all years except Davis Cup points were excluded. Federer's points shown in blue, Nadal's in orange and Djokovic's in green.

For an article about Djokovic's and Nadal's supreme domination this year, see here (http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/nadal-djokovic-take-domination-new-level). There you'll also find another feuselino's chart showing head-to-head of the world's top two versus the rest of the field by year.

Djokovic and Nadal are the first pair of players to share all six big events (Masters 1000s, Grand Slams and World Tour Finals) to start the year since Sampras and Medvedev in 1994. They're also the first pair to contest four Masters 1000 finals in one year. Discuss.

it is not domination.......no, it is not domination.......it is merciless bombardment, destruction and utter pwnage of the tour by the two stalwarts of tennis.......

luie
05-19-2011, 02:13 PM
Its because of a weak era that there is such a gap between the top 2 & the rest,,especially both top players are defensive minded currently.

Vida
05-19-2011, 02:23 PM
theyre not defensive minded its just clay.

the gap is there because top 2 are that much better than the rest, and thats exactly why this is the strong era not weak - there are two of them basically being unbeatable by the rest, not one.

luie
05-19-2011, 02:41 PM
theyre not defensive minded its just clay.

the gap is there because top 2 are that much better than the rest, and thats exactly why this is the strong era not weak - there are two of them basically being unbeatable by the rest, not one.
Novak is playing a bit more balance with the edge towards defense. nadull is plain out pushing & moonballing yet he is handily beating the field currently.Apart from slams.

Vida
05-19-2011, 02:53 PM
Novak is playing a bit more balance with the edge towards defense. nadull is plain out pushing & moonballing yet he is handily beating the field currently.Apart from slams.

obviously you have no idea what are you talking about. this is clay, whatever we cal the game, defensive or offensive, it is meant to be played like that meaning if it wearent - theres no way they would be dominating.

also the difference between defense and offense is blurred with these guys. look at djoker point won vs lost ratio and tell me he is waiting for errors or whatever you may define 'defensive' in this age.

with nadal your confusion is even less complex given he is being so defensive vs novak, who against nadal, is at his most aggressive.

luie
05-19-2011, 03:04 PM
obviously you have no idea what are you talking about. this is clay, whatever we cal the game, defensive or offensive, it is meant to be played like that meaning if it wearent - theres no way they would be dominating.

also the difference between defense and offense is blurred with these guys. look at djoker point won vs lost ratio and tell me he is waiting for errors or whatever you may define 'defensive' in this age.

with nadal your confusion is even less complex given he is being so defensive vs novak, who against nadal, is at his most aggressive.
Negative you nole fanboyism is clouding your judgement,,,Novak is more defensive now than in 07/08 alot of players,journalist are realising it....However its the right way to play in this "slow era" I wasn't speaking of clay only.... For now He is more defensive in nature I can't say for sure if it is permanent,,I will have to see his performances on faster surfaces to see exactly where his game is headed.
Nadull was pushing against Somdev on HC enough said.

Vida
05-19-2011, 03:10 PM
Negative you nole fanboyism is clouding your judgement,,,Novak is more defensive now than in 07/08 alot of players,journalist are realising it....However its the right way to play in this "slow era" I wasn't speaking of clay only.... For now He is more defensive in nature I can't say for sure if it is permanent,,I will have to see his performances on faster surfaces to see exactly where his game is headed.
Nadull was pushing against Somdev on HC enough said.

:lol: ..... :zzz:

nadal has the best start to the year if it wearent for novak, and novak is just crushing the ball... players with the best defense are the only ones who have the space to be offensive anyway.

luie
05-19-2011, 03:39 PM
:lol: ..... :zzz:

nadal has the best start to the year if it wearent for novak, and novak is just crushing the ball... players with the best defense are the only ones who have the space to be offensive anyway.
Nadull has the 2nd best start because he top ten is berdshit/ferrer/monfils/melzer/fish etc....They can't get out of their own way far less win matches.......
Nadull the moonballer is on a rampage against old/weaklings,,,,however Novak level is good.

Vida
05-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Nadull has the 2nd best start because he top ten is berdshit/ferrer/monfils/melzer/fish etc....They can't get out of their own way far less win matches.......
Nadull the moonballer is on a rampage against old/weaklings,,,,however Novak level is good.

so you're complaining about berdych, ferrer, monfils... fish, those guys? awwww.

and whats nadal got to be on a rampage against those guys when he is already handful.

Branimir
05-19-2011, 03:55 PM
How can someone in their right mind say Novak's game is more defensive than offensive? Just because he doesn't go for winners after 2 shoots doesn't mean his game is defensive. Just because he is trying to construct points, it doesn't mean he is playing defensive.
I wanna know what player had the most winners so far this year.

Nadull_tard
05-19-2011, 04:10 PM
Since when winning 2 minor tournaments like MC and Barcelona is a sign of dominance?

Certinfy
05-19-2011, 04:20 PM
Awesome work :yeah:

luie
05-19-2011, 05:00 PM
so you're complaining about berdych, ferrer, monfils... fish, those guys? awwww.

and whats nadal got to be on a rampage against those guys when he is already handful.
Not sure what you mean by this????
What I saying nadull has been moonballing alot since the US open,more defensive,,serve is off a bit from his US open standard & he is still the 2nd best player on tour,,my mention of these mug top ten is to say its easy to dominate @ the moment...
Sorry for any hurt feelings.:sad:

luie
05-19-2011, 05:02 PM
Since when winning 2 minor tournaments like MC and Barcelona is a sign of dominance?
Murray was giving him a hard time on clay,,some dominance.:rolleyes:

Sophocles
05-19-2011, 05:05 PM
Djokovic is playing at an exceptionally high level. Nadal is pretty good but some way below his 2008 level. Federer is in terminal decline but can still turn it on from time to time. Murray is occasionally brilliant but prone to protracted slumps. Del Potro is injured again. The rest of the tour aren't worth mentioning.

Lana87
05-19-2011, 05:39 PM
Del Potro is injured again.

Didn't look bad on the airport where they interviewed him. He was smiling so I guess he feels optimistic. Unfortunately I don't know Spanish http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Lanabgd/new/af660528.gif

Sapeod
05-19-2011, 05:50 PM
Well, the rest of the players have been really up and down this year. No wonder 10,000 points have gone Nadal/Djokovic's way.

Djokovic is at a constant good level, though he did really dig deep against some opponents. Still, an in form player should've have any trouble with him.
Nadal is pretty average/good at best this year. His year has been consistently that though.
Federer has been pretty mediocre too, his slump continues, which is sad to see. He can still play great tennis though.
Murray is probably the best player this year when he's in form and plays really well, BUT his slump didn't help and messing up some opportunities cost him that match in Rome.
Soderling started extremely well, but now he's pretty average.
Ferrer has been consistently great all year, despite some bad losses.
Berdych has been consistently consistent :shrug:
Melzer has had some great matches, but his injuries have kept him from getting great results.
Almagro has been great, though recently he has been quite bad.
Monfils hasn't done anything this year.

Mayer has been great.
Troicki has been great too, though his claycourt season was pretty mediocre.
Raonic is great, and should do great on grass and hardcourt.