The ATP at an all time low? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The ATP at an all time low?

Magick
05-17-2011, 02:16 PM
With Rafa now in decline along with the rest of the tour, the standard of play is officially at an all time low. And to make this worse, there aren't enough young/new players coming through to replace this stagnant crop. The only 2 who are new to the top 30 are Dolgopolov and Raonic.

Let's take a look at how poorly the top 30 are travelling at the moment:

Nadal - has been horribly exposed by Djokovic and Lorenzi in recent weeks. Backhand completely ineffective, forehand nowhere near as potent as in previous seasons, lacking depth of shot in general and aggressiveness.

Djokovic - career best tennis, well ahead of the pack, although this gap is exacerbated by poor form of others.

Federer - low in confidence, cant finish matches against pigeons, and cant hit a backhand to save himself.

Murray - played a couple great tournaments after some career low performances. consistency remains to be seen.

Soderling - mugging it up. can only beat others in worse form than he is. light years behing where he has been this time in the previous 2 years.

Berdych - holding his own, and nothing more.

Ferrer - unsung hero, great year to date.

Melzer - the odd decent match, but still far too much muggery.

Monfils - awful, dont know how he's still top 10.

Fish - doing well for a yank, but still the same old one dimensional game.

Roddick - surprised to see him ranked this high. these days he is well and truly outside the top 100 best players on clay.

Almagro - one of the more consistent claycourters over the past few years, solid south american swing, has since turned to garbage.

Youzhny - mediocre to poor.

Gasquet - couple decent matches in Roma, the rest has been rubbish.

Wawrinka - possibly the worst performing of the top 15. incredible drop off in form.

Troicki - doing well enough given his ability, but not justifying his ranking.

Verdasco - hit an all time low, losing in straights to Lu on clay in Spain. not enough has been said on how terrible that is.

Tsonga - playing up to his ability on clay, but no further.

Simon - winning matches against mugs, cant hold a candle to anyone semi-decent

Cilic - very mediocre.

Mayer - one of the better performers around, in near career best form.

Nalbandian - no idea where he is.

Dolgopolov - great start to the year, muggish since.

Llodra - how this guy wins matches on clay still amazes me.

Bellucci - shit year with 1 good tournament.

Querrey - back to the mug he is at heart.

Del Potro - needs to stay healthy to restore some order

Raonic - been great so far this year.

Baghdatis - struggles like a mug journeyman these days.

Davydenko - one average tournament, the rest of them have been awful.

Ad Wim
05-17-2011, 02:21 PM
So, what's your point? What is exactly low about the ATP?

I think it's a great season so far, with some fantastic matches.

xdrewitdajx
05-17-2011, 02:21 PM
yes, it's all awful. Just awful.

tennizen
05-17-2011, 02:28 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll1qvfuy6H1qeewln.gif

Magick
05-17-2011, 02:35 PM
So, what's your point? What is exactly low about the ATP?

I think it's a great season so far, with some fantastic matches.

there are still close matches, they're just at a mug level.

Roamed
05-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Well, when you put it like that....

I've loved seeing Mayer playing well. And even if players are not in form on the whole, it doesn't mean it can't still be exciting :)

philosophicalarf
05-17-2011, 03:25 PM
Quite a few of the above are injury-related:


Soderling: has had leg problems since february.

Melzer: complete walking wounded. elbow problems all year, occasional knee problems, back problem last week that left him in bed for days before his match, and a heart issue flaring up also at times. His form seems to be fine though, when he was actually fit he beat Almagro and Federer in MC.

Monfils: uh, he's just back from a lengthy period out. He's in the top10 cos of the Paris final, but "top10" is a little meaningless atm - there is a top7, then a big gap, and down to about 20 is very tightly packed. 9 to 16 is only 600pts.

Dolgo: stomach issue they've not been able to cure.

Davy: repeated problems all year, mainly shoulder, but not only that.

Nalby: always injured, nothing new there.





Also, Gasquet has been on an upward form curve since about last US Open. Last week didn't come out of nowhere.

Querrey/Cilic/Verdasco have been in mug mode for about a year, nothing new there. Querrey will soon feel the rankings consequences. Cilic seems to be stabilising just a bit.

Say Hey Kid
05-17-2011, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't call it an all time low. Djokovic and Nadal are just MUCH better than the everyone else, with exception of Federer, and behind him Murray who they are a good deal better than. Obviously, Ferrer, Soderling, Berdych can surprise and do things when they are in form.

The problem is, after that the 8-25 players have been horribly inconsistent with no one showing any legitimate promise as a player who can contend for major tournaments. No one below the current top 7 has shown anything worthy of being a contender in the next year or so.

Del Potro and perhaps Nalbandian have potential to challenge the top players, but it seems like both can never stay healthy. Obviously, Nalbandian is a stretch, but imo he has a better shot than any other top 25 player currently of potentially doing things at big tournaments in the next 12 months.

Filo V.
05-17-2011, 03:35 PM
Almagro has played good opponents who played well. So I don't think he belongs in this list. He's still had a very nice season overall.

Also, Tsonga has started showing an improved level. When he gets to grass and especially HC, then we can judge him and where he's at.

The reality is, Rafa and Nole are so far ahead of everyone else that it makes the rest of the field look poor in comparison. Does that mean the ATP is at an all-time low, or that 1 player especially and Rafa, although not in great form has made 6 straight finals, are they just THAT good? That's the question that people will have different answers towards.

Kworb
05-17-2011, 03:40 PM
I agree. This is clearly Nadal's worst season yet and he still reached four big finals in a row. Sure there have been some good matches but the general quality is abysmal. As the WTA is also at an all time low, these are bad times to be a tennis fan.

TheBaker
05-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Gratuitous use of the word "mug" is not a valid argument despite what some may think on this forum.

tnosugar
05-17-2011, 03:46 PM
bollocks. The question is only whether it's at an all time high.
Probably only the late 80s - early 90s was a more competitive era than this one. In terms of absolute quality, you just cannot make comparisons.

Give me one era in which a player was not in firm control of the number 1 spot after 37 consecutive wins.
And everyone keeps focusing on the top 5 or 10 when making these comparisons.
If we compared the 20 - 100 segment to any other era, I believe we'd come to interesting conclusions. It is this pressure group that makes the top players be at near the top of their game from the earliest rounds.

tennizen
05-17-2011, 03:50 PM
For something to be called an all-time-low, there needs to be a comparison with all times. Hope this is helpful:hug:

Action Jackson
05-17-2011, 04:00 PM
An overall era isn't decided by the number 1 and 2 players.

zlaja777
05-17-2011, 04:03 PM
Sure it's low to people who don't like Djokovic. Rafa reached all 5 MS 1000 finals this year and he would probably won at least 4 of them if there is no Novak who plays his best tennis ever. Then people would say that Rafa is the GOAT and on his peak. Tons of experts including a lot on ex and active players marked this season as very interesting and described Djokovic as a player who takes the game to a new heights. Far far away from all time low.

Sapeod
05-17-2011, 04:04 PM
At the moment, the top 3 in terms of form are definitely Djokovic, Nadal and Murray. Mayer, Ferrer and Berdych aren't far behind. Sure, Berdych lost to Gasquet but he has losses like that all the time and he's very consistent.

In terms of form, I think the current top 10 out of the top 30 are:

01. Djokovic
02. Nadal
03. Murray
04. Federer
05. Ferrer
06. Mayer
07. Berdych
08. Gasquet
09. Raonic
10. Almagro

The top 3 are very close, though Nadal has been handled easier by Djokovic than Murray has. So Murray and Nadal are very very close. Federer isn't in form, but it's Federer, he's still very good even when not in form. Ferrer is unbelievably consistent. Mayer is at an all time high and could beat all of the players below him in the list, and trouble the top guys. Berdych is consistent, and wins most of the matches he should win. He loses the odd match he should win (Gasquet) but apart from that, he has been very good this year. Gasquet is in good form currently. Beating Berdych with just a backhand is hilariously good, even I must admit. Raonic isn't great on clay, so he's had some early losses. But on hardcourt he is in great form and he should carry that on grass too. Almagro has had some bad losses recently, but overall he's been in great form this year. Very dangerous player at RG. Add Troicki in there, because he's playing great recently, despite some bad play on clay. Quarter-final at Monte Carlo is good, and he's had a great year overall.

Tom Paulman
05-17-2011, 04:08 PM
It's been at all time low since a moonballer won Wimbledon

Magick
05-17-2011, 04:37 PM
An overall era isn't decided by the number 1 and 2 players.

the one and two are okay.

its the bulk of the top 30 who are incredibly weak at the moment.

r2473
05-17-2011, 04:45 PM
Robbie Konig said during one of the matches this weekend that Agassi was saying that the level of tennis has risen so much from the time when he was playing.

But what the hell does Agassi know?

Sophocles
05-17-2011, 04:50 PM
Robbie Konig said during one of the matches this weekend that Agassi was saying that the level of tennis has risen so much from the time when he was playing.

But what the hell does Agassi know?

All commentators say that. It's their job to big up the sport.

The Top 4 is very strong. The rest of the field is abysmal.

zlaja777
05-17-2011, 04:54 PM
Robbie Konig said during one of the matches this weekend that Agassi was saying that the level of tennis has risen so much from the time when he was playing.

But what the hell does Agassi know?

That is a known fact among the tennis knowers.

MacTheKnife
05-17-2011, 04:59 PM
The tour has been top heavy for a while now. Nothing new.

r2473
05-17-2011, 04:59 PM
All commentators say that. It's their job to big up the sport.

The Top 4 is very strong. The rest of the field is abysmal.

I guess a direct comparison between 5-X from this era and other era's would be the only way to decide.

What you will (probably) find is a time when 5-X had past champions that were fading and had Slams, Masters level event, etc titles. At the moment however, nearly all of that hardware has been won by the two players (Federer and Nadal).

Yes, 2 players have been dominant for the past 5+ years. But I don't think that means everyone else is "abysmal". It just means that the top 2 have been dominant. And yes, for a few months Nole has had some wins. But his trophy case isn't bulging with big trophies either.

Just watching the play, I think the level is quite high. Better than in the past for me (I've been watching since the mid-eighties).

Johnny Groove
05-17-2011, 05:00 PM
A better question would be:

"Has there ever been a time when there WEREN'T any threads on GM bitching about the quality of the game?"

luie
05-17-2011, 05:03 PM
Robbie Konig said during one of the matches this weekend that Agassi was saying that the level of tennis has risen so much from the time when he was playing.

But what the hell does Agassi know?
During that same match Robbie said nadull was mooballing to novak guess he was right.:cool:
So if this is a strong era,,then nadull must be a moonballer.

Sapeod
05-17-2011, 05:04 PM
The tour has been top heavy for a while now. Nothing new.
Yeah, the top 4 are leading the others by quite a bit. Only Soderling and Del Potro have come close to dislodging the Big 4. They managed to knock Murray to no.5 for a while, but he got his spot back shortly after.

r2473
05-17-2011, 05:10 PM
During that same match Robbie said nadull was mooballing to novak guess he was right.:cool:
So if this is a strong era,,then nadull must be a moonballer.

Don't recall that.

I recall him saying that Nadal played very defensive for a stretch and was dropping too many balls short. Something I agree with.

"Moonballing" sounds like a term that only MTF morons would use. Not Konig.

Alex999
05-17-2011, 05:11 PM
At the moment, the top 3 in terms of form are definitely Djokovic, Nadal and Murray. Mayer, Ferrer and Berdych aren't far behind. Sure, Berdych lost to Gasquet but he has losses like that all the time and he's very consistent.

In terms of form, I think the current top 10 out of the top 30 are:

01. Djokovic
02. Nadal
03. Murray
04. Federer
05. Ferrer
06. Mayer
07. Berdych
08. Gasquet
09. Raonic
10. Almagro

The top 3 are very close, though Nadal has been handled easier by Djokovic than Murray has. So Murray and Nadal are very very close. Federer isn't in form, but it's Federer, he's still very good even when not in form. Ferrer is unbelievably consistent. Mayer is at an all time high and could beat all of the players below him in the list, and trouble the top guys. Berdych is consistent, and wins most of the matches he should win. He loses the odd match he should win (Gasquet) but apart from that, he has been very good this year. Gasquet is in good form currently. Beating Berdych with just a backhand is hilariously good, even I must admit. Raonic isn't great on clay, so he's had some early losses. But on hardcourt he is in great form and he should carry that on grass too. Almagro has had some bad losses recently, but overall he's been in great form this year. Very dangerous player at RG. Add Troicki in there, because he's playing great recently, despite some bad play on clay. Quarter-final at Monte Carlo is good, and he's had a great year overall.

wow, I'm so impressed :). You can actually post something intelligent (objective) here. You still have a long way to go but this was good :yeah:

MayerFan
05-17-2011, 06:33 PM
Quite the contrary, in my opinion.

The level of play has probably been declining for a long time now, in general. Djokovic is finally consistent and that was just enough to displace Nadal of his somewhat strange #1 ranking.

MayerFan
05-17-2011, 06:34 PM
It's been at all time low since a moonballer won Wimbledon

Do you mean Nadal?

Deivid23
05-17-2011, 07:15 PM
It´s been like this for a while. There´s another thread concerning this poster rhinooo started long ago

Sapeod
05-17-2011, 07:17 PM
wow, I'm so impressed :). You can actually post something intelligent (objective) here. You still have a long way to go but this was good :yeah:
Why are you impressed? I can post longer and more detailed stuff than that. I'm just saying that at the moment Djokovic's form overall the best this year, though that isn't saying too much. Murray's form in their match was by far better, but he messed up his chance. If I went by how well they can play this year, I would put Murray at no.1, because he's shown that he can play much better than Djokovic (Djokovic was at his mercy in their match), but as I said, he screwed up his chance. But I'm going for overall form at the current moment.

MaxPower
05-17-2011, 07:18 PM
ATP might not be at a peak but it is most definitely not at an "all time low". That is just selective memory. People tend to remember the best points and best matches from past times and then conveniently forget about past mugishness. I can find ATP in worse shape many times in just the past 10 years.

MaxPower
05-17-2011, 07:40 PM
Soderling - mugging it up. can only beat others in worse form than he is. light years behing where he has been this time in the previous 2 years.


BTW is this a common opinion or something? Especially with all the talk about his bad form and not being a top10 player and all. Talk about goldfish memory. He got 3 titles this year already. Did his best AO in his career. Sure he failed in Indian Wells/Miami where he did dual semis last year, but now he had a leg injury. Clay season is OK so far. Didn't reach the Barcelona final again but did his best Rome until picking up a groin injury in the first set vs Djokovic. Chose to finish the match anyway. He has done as well or better than previous 2 years. He's 6th in the ATP race. Has enough of a lead on Ferrer to fail miserably in RG but probably still keep his nr5 spot. What makes him light years behind? The heel injury and the groin injury? That he has no problems taking a bagel instead of retiring? He will be alright.

r2473
05-17-2011, 08:51 PM
Soderling should retire for his fans.

Lleyton_
05-17-2011, 09:08 PM
All time low was last year. From February to August was weaker than Nadal's moonballs.

Indian Wells - Ljubicic vs Roddick :facepalm:
Miami - Roddick vs Berdych :lol:
Monte-Carlo - Nadal vs Verdasco :zzz:
Rome - Nadal vs Ferrer :zzz:
Madrid - Nadal vs Federer :zzz:
Roland Garros - Nadal vs Soderling :zzz:
Wimbledon - Nadal vs Berdych :o

Pathetic.

r2473
05-17-2011, 09:30 PM
I'm thinking most "tennis fans" should be watching a different sport.