Strategic error winning Roma ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Strategic error winning Roma ?

AndyNonomous
05-16-2011, 03:08 PM
Roland Garros is the big prize of the clay court season. Past experience has shown that you want to REDUCE expectations for the big prize. By winning Rome, Djokovic has :

- Made himself at least the co-favorite to win RG.
- Taken some of the pressure off of Nadal (Rafa prefers to be the "underdog").
- Keeps the pressure of the win-streak alive.
- May take something physically out of his "tank" (Because tennis tournaments are "elimination", if you keep winning, you keep playing more matches than your opponents do).
- Keeps up the scurilous talk about PEDs being the reason for his resurgence.

Do you think Nole should have strategically tanked Rome ?

r2473
05-16-2011, 03:09 PM
"Joker should tank Roland Garros for his fans......"

Certinfy
05-16-2011, 03:12 PM
No.

Sophocles
05-16-2011, 03:14 PM
Nice trolling.

Lleyton_
05-16-2011, 03:15 PM
This pressure nonsense is irrelevant. Djokovic owns Nadal and his new diet made him a god. He will win the title.

orangehat
05-16-2011, 03:16 PM
can see where you are coming from, time will tell.

barbadosan
05-16-2011, 03:23 PM
No. Ever considered he might have tanked Rome and still not won RG?

Topspindoctor
05-16-2011, 03:24 PM
:retard:

Sunset of Age
05-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Anyone believing that a top player, an obvious premier candidate to take over the #1 ranking position will TANK a Master's tournament played on the same surface as the upcoming GS where that ranking position will be decided, is being truly delusional.

Time Violation
05-16-2011, 03:27 PM
No. Ever considered he might have tanked Rome and still not won RG?

This. Like tanking Rome (or any other tournament) guarantees anything :)

AndyNonomous
05-16-2011, 03:30 PM
No. Ever considered he might have tanked Rome and still not won RG?

Of course he could win RG after winning Rome, or he could lose Rg after losing Rome. But the pressure on Nole at RG will be greater now that he won Rome.

Norrage
05-16-2011, 03:35 PM
If he would have lost without strategically losing on purpose, it would have made a difference. But if he would have lost on purpose, that alone would create pressure on him too, wouldn't it? What if he loses? Then his sacrifice would have been in vain...better just win Rome and own Rafa in the progress

mickymouse
05-16-2011, 03:35 PM
Nope. If anything, it gives him the confidence of beating Nadal even on slower clay. This can only boost his confidence.

SheepleBuster
05-16-2011, 03:36 PM
Roland Garros is the big prize of the clay court season. Past experience has shown that you want to REDUCE expectations for the big prize. By winning Rome, Djokovic has :

- Made himself at least the co-favorite to win RG.
- Taken some of the pressure off of Nadal (Rafa prefers to be the "underdog").
- Keeps the pressure of the win-streak alive.
- May take something physically out of his "tank" (Because tennis tournaments are "elimination", if you keep winning, you keep playing more matches than your opponents do).
- Keeps up the scurilous talk about PEDs being the reason for his resurgence.

Do you think Nole should have strategically tanked Rome ?

Only a Rafatard would come up with this brilliant logic

piksi
05-16-2011, 03:40 PM
Only a Rafatard would come up with this brilliant logic


only a hard core one because there are plenty of Rafatards that are taking this hard but still keep their dignity

luie
05-16-2011, 03:42 PM
No,,, while beating nadull in a BO3,,doesn't mean much in BO5,,novak has shown me he is ready to take down nadull in BO5.
The problem is he will play nadull in the finals,,where nadulls Ground game is @ its best,,so if he is off ,or can't maintain the intesity for a long period he is toast.
Imo he will need some help,, for nadull to have a couple tough matches before the final & his part is easy.
His stamina/mentality has improved so he has a realist chance to claim his 1st FO.

r2473
05-16-2011, 03:44 PM
Roland Garros is the big prize of the clay court season. Past experience has shown that you want to REDUCE expectations for the big prize. By winning Rome, Djokovic has :

- Made himself at least the co-favorite to win RG.
- Taken some of the pressure off of Nadal (Rafa prefers to be the "underdog").
- Keeps the pressure of the win-streak alive.
- May take something physically out of his "tank" (Because tennis tournaments are "elimination", if you keep winning, you keep playing more matches than your opponents do).
- Keeps up the scurilous talk about PEDs being the reason for his resurgence.

Do you think Nole should have strategically tanked Rome ?

100% spot on.

Federer understands this. So does Soderling.

Verdasco understands this the best (and is the clear favorite to win Roland Garros).

SheepleBuster
05-16-2011, 03:45 PM
only a hard core one because there are plenty of Rafatards that are taking this hard but still keep their dignity

So I am going to use my inner Fedtard and turn tables. Roger has not only tanked against Nadal to not allow Nadal to be an underdog, he lost to Gasquet instead of Berdych, to make sure Nadal does not get the indication that he is scared of Rafa. This way Rafa felt lucky that he reached the final because he didnt face Roger. Not because Rafa can't beat Roger. But because if Rafa beat Roger, then Roger would be the underdog and Rafa has to absolutely be an underdog to win grand slams .:cheerleader:

Branimir
05-16-2011, 03:48 PM
Pressure?

aeronatasha
05-16-2011, 03:49 PM
^ :lol: You channeled it beautifully, SheepleBuster.

AndyNonomous
05-16-2011, 03:50 PM
Only a Rafatard would come up with this brilliant logic



:superlol:


The first time I have ever been accused of this !

SheepleBuster
05-16-2011, 03:55 PM
:superlol:


The first time I have ever been accused of this !

I am not accusing you. I just think you are trying too hard. :devil:

Nadull_tard
05-16-2011, 03:58 PM
Djoković shouldn't have won a match this year to take the pressure of his shoulders before RG. Nadal as a heavy favorite would loose in R1 against Tomic or Raonic, but when Nadal enters French Open as the underdog he will win the title in straights.

AndyNonomous
05-16-2011, 04:01 PM
And so the game begins.

"Djokovic is favorite for RG claims Nadal."
(He wouldn't say this if it didn't help himself ;))

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16052011/58/french-open-nadal-djokovic-paris-favourite.html

Ukyo
05-16-2011, 04:04 PM
Murray got this.

HarryMan
05-16-2011, 04:06 PM
It is always better to win than lose. I mean Djokovic's confidence is sky high now and he knows he can beat just about anyone. He will be ready for RG.

nole_no1
05-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Sorry but...what a retarded useless thread

Nadull_tard
05-16-2011, 04:11 PM
I see Nadal has started his trashtalk campaign already. Fortunately no one is listening to this crap.

Just like heaven
05-16-2011, 04:12 PM
:superlol:


The first time I have ever been accused of this !

Probably because he made a typo. What he wanted to write is
Only a retard would come up with this brilliant logic

This is something more familiar to you, no?

luie
05-16-2011, 04:14 PM
I see Nadal has started his trashtalk campaign already. Fortunately no one is listening to this crap.
I believe him,, nadull is not some cheater with fake humility.:no:
He is a great champion,,did you see that heart warming Hand shake,,he gave novak,,all class this nadull.

Nadull_tard
05-16-2011, 04:16 PM
I believe him,, nadull is not some cheater with fake humility.:no:
He is a great champion,,did you see that heart warming Hand shake,,he gave novak,,all class this nadull.

Yeah, I saw it. To be honest, I'm not that close with my family as Nadal is with his conquerors.

Brick Top
05-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Trophy is a trophy and ONE will take it every time ones the chance occurs!

xdrewitdajx
05-16-2011, 04:34 PM
not even taking into account the ridiculousness of the whole "tanking" and "strategic loss" thing (hint: pro athletes don't think this way, they want to win everything)....

how could it be a mistake to beat Nadal, the #1 player, for the fourth straight time, in straight sets, on a surface he is fully comfortably on? A surface which is close to the surface of the next GS coming up in a week's time, a surface where he has been pretty much unbeatable for 6 years.
He keeps his streak going, and some people keep acting like the "pressure of the streak" is gonna hinder him at the FO...I don't think so, I think the streak is propelling him forward, and helping him win matches he might otherwise have trouble finishing off... as it increases so does his confidence, and not just that but so does the aura of invincibility around him that his opponents can't help but think about. Obviously he's not unbeatable, but the bigger the streak the more it seems like he is. He's been dealing with "the pressure" of the streak pretty well so far, no need to assume he's gonna collapse all of a sudden.

Nadal is still the favorite, no matter what he or anyone else says. Djokovic has never even reached the final. Even if Djokovic is the favorite, this is a different player than the one who played best when there were no expectations, and folded when there were.

and pretty sure he doesn't give a fuck about the PED talk...helps weed out the idiots, actually


so, basically...no, stop it. It's never good to lose on purpose, ever. Winning Rome can only help him. Even if he doesn't win the French Open, it won't be because he didn't tank

asmaridis
05-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Non-sense thread. Under what logic should Djokovic have "tanked" Rome? The extra 3-5 hours he played to win it are nothing compared to how much time he's spent on court this year. He's oozing confidence at the moment, with the biggest psychological edge that anybody has ever had on Nadal. Nadal has NO time to adapt his game to Djokovic's in a week's time before RG. The only opponents who might give Djokovic a hard time are Murray and Federer, never Nadal. Odds are that Djokovic will go on to win RG. People who believe Nadal will have an advantage in a 3 out of 5 setter tourny are too naive. Djokovic has beaten Nadal in straight sets twice in a row on both "fake" and "real" clay. You think Nadal would have gone one to take the win had they played a 3rd set? Dream on.

shuhrat
05-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Roland Garros is the big prize of the clay court season. Past experience has shown that you want to REDUCE expectations for the big prize. By winning Rome, Djokovic has :

- Made himself at least the co-favorite to win RG.
- Taken some of the pressure off of Nadal (Rafa prefers to be the "underdog").
- Keeps the pressure of the win-streak alive.
- May take something physically out of his "tank" (Because tennis tournaments are "elimination", if you keep winning, you keep playing more matches than your opponents do).
- Keeps up the scurilous talk about PEDs being the reason for his resurgence.

Do you think Nole should have strategically tanked Rome ?
It's mostly you. Almost every comment from you on Nole is insinuating he is on dope since Miami. What a pathetic attempt. :rolleyes:

r2473
05-16-2011, 05:11 PM
It's mostly you. Almost every comment from you on Nole is insinuating he is on dope since Miami. What a pathetic attempt. :rolleyes:

He's on gluten free dope.

shuhrat
05-16-2011, 05:15 PM
He's on gluten free dope.
He got busted. :scared: http://yfrog.com/h25h6anj

arm
05-16-2011, 05:26 PM
So a top 2 payer, who is close to becoming #1, who hasn't lost a match in 5 months should consider tanking a MS final so that he can feel "less pressured"? :lol:

He wants to be #1, win GSs, beat Rafa on clay... looks to me like he is looking for pressure :shrug:

ballbasher101
05-16-2011, 05:33 PM
The one with the real pressure is Nadal lets get that straight. Roland Garros is his place. Everyone expects Nadal to win. Nadal will play mind games before the French by saying the Djoker is the favorite but we all know who the favorite is.

BULLZ1LLA
05-16-2011, 05:35 PM
(Like I said before, it would not have been a good thing if Rafa won the Rome Final. Djokovic is going to struggle mentally during Roland Garros because he'll be aware that by winning Roland Garros he will tie the all-time streak record. The pressure will bother Djokovic in the Roland Garros Final, so Djokovic winning Rome is exactly what you wanted if you are a Rafa fan, in relation to the dynamics of Roland Garros)

Sunset of Age
05-16-2011, 05:38 PM
(Like I said before, it would not have been a good thing if Rafa won the Rome Final. Djokovic is going to struggle mentally during Roland Garros because he'll be aware that by winning Roland Garros he will tie the all-time streak record. The pressure will bother Djokovic in the Roland Garros Final, so Djokovic winning Rome is exactly what you wanted if you are a Rafa fan, in relation to the dynamics of Roland Garros)

(How many times are you going to post this same nonsense again? :silly: )

MIMIC
05-16-2011, 05:45 PM
(Like I said before, it would not have been a good thing if Rafa won the Rome Final. Djokovic is going to struggle mentally during Roland Garros because he'll be aware that by winning Roland Garros he will tie the all-time streak record. The pressure will bother Djokovic in the Roland Garros Final, so Djokovic winning Rome is exactly what you wanted if you are a Rafa fan, in relation to the dynamics of Roland Garros)

:facepalm:

http://i51.tinypic.com/nxw2mq.jpg

I hope the mods use this as justification to ban you.

freeandlonely
05-16-2011, 05:53 PM
no

Sri
05-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Anyone believing that a top player, an obvious premier candidate to take over the #1 ranking position will TANK a Master's tournament played on the same surface as the upcoming GS where that ranking position will be decided, is being truly delusional.


Describes 90% of Rafito tards!

asmaridis
05-16-2011, 07:51 PM
:facepalm:

http://i51.tinypic.com/nxw2mq.jpg

I hope the mods use this as justification to ban you.

Epic catch, MIMIC :hatoff:

BULLZ1LLA
05-17-2011, 01:55 AM
(Don't get me wrong, I and every Rafa fan and of course Rafa himself wanted Rafa to win Rome, because that is the natural instinct of sport - trying to win. But objectively it was always better for Rafa to remain the underdog, so if I was objective about the bigger picture heading into Rome I would have said 'it's best Djokovic remain undefeated until Roland Garros')

BULLZ1LLA
05-17-2011, 02:01 AM
I hope the mods use this as justification to ban you.

(Banned for having an opinion? BTW, you just committed 'backseat modding')

Sunset of Age
05-17-2011, 02:28 AM
(Don't get me wrong, I and every Rafa fan and of course Rafa himself wanted Rafa to win Rome, because that is the natural instinct of sport - trying to win. But objectively it was always better for Rafa to remain the underdog, so if I was objective about the bigger picture heading into Rome I would have said 'it's best Djokovic remain undefeated until Roland Garros')

(Banned for having an opinion? BTW, you just committed 'backseat modding')

( I'm sorry, BULLSH*TZ1LLA, but you're just asking for folks to mock you. ) !1

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/io9/2009/04/Troll.jpg

Nothing personal, just SHUT UP, okay?
Or at least, dump the silly ( ) !1's and stuff like that. Just a *friendly* advice.

BULLZ1LLA
05-17-2011, 02:35 AM
Or at least, dump the silly ( ) !1's and stuff like that. Just an advice.

(I don't use the number 1 in any of my posts, you got the wrong guy. If I'm bothering you that's your problem and so is your abusive style of posting, since I had no intention of this and all I'm doing is posting my opinion)

Kat_YYZ
05-17-2011, 02:44 AM
If Novak had "tanked" (:rolleyes:) it would have given Nadal back some confidence for RG. Now his confidence must be very shaken. He could lose to someone else and not even meet Novak in the final. How many other players are feeling emboldened, and thinking maybe they can take out Nadal? (especially after the Lorenzi fiasco). His aura of invincibility is fading and I think it was always a big part of his dominance.

Not everyone quivers with fear at the thought of "pressure"; I don't think it's bothering Novak at all. :cool:

DJ Soup
05-17-2011, 03:08 AM
(Don't get me wrong, I and every Rafa fan and of course Rafa himself wanted Rafa to win Rome, because that is the natural instinct of sport - trying to win. But objectively it was always better for Rafa to remain the underdog, so if I was objective about the bigger picture heading into Rome I would have said 'it's best Djokovic remain undefeated until Roland Garros')

laughable

Sophocles
05-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Can't the mods have a policy of banning obvious unfunny trolls?

Myrre
05-17-2011, 10:02 AM
The win can only boost his confidence. Djokovic knows now that beating Nadal in Madrid was not a "flash in the pan". He can beat Nadal on any clay court.

simplet
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Can't the mods have a policy of banning obvious unfunny trolls?

please?

FNT
05-17-2011, 11:44 AM
Considering that he pretty much locked up No. 1 ranking that he will get some time in the summer, this is like the best thread EVA.

Time Violation
05-17-2011, 11:52 AM
please?

With sugar and cream on the top :)

AndyNonomous
06-04-2011, 12:26 AM
Hm.

Over 90% of the inmates here said the Rome win would help Djoker, or at least not hurt him. Many of you were abusive to me suggesting that I was an idiot even to suggest that he tank early in the Rome tournament.


I'll bet that Novak may have a different opinion right now.


As I said EXPECTATION has a detrimental effect. Thats why Nadal always reduces his expection. It worked great for Rafa, and not so well for Novak.

Mungo
06-04-2011, 12:28 AM
Boys I already said this after the Rome final.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=182580&page=48

AndyNonomous
06-04-2011, 01:32 AM
This pressure nonsense is irrelevant. Djokovic owns Nadal and his new diet made him a god. He will win the title.

:retard:

Anyone believing that a top player, an obvious premier candidate to take over the #1 ranking position will TANK a Master's tournament played on the same surface as the upcoming GS where that ranking position will be decided, is being truly delusional.

Only a Rafatard would come up with this brilliant logic

only a hard core one because there are plenty of Rafatards that are taking this hard but still keep their dignity

Sorry but...what a retarded useless thread

Probably because he made a typo. What he wanted to write is

Only a retard would come up with this brilliant logic

This is something more familiar to you, no?

not even taking into account the ridiculousness of the whole "tanking" and "strategic loss" thing (hint: pro athletes don't think this way, they want to win everything)....

how could it be a mistake to beat Nadal, the #1 player, for the fourth straight time, in straight sets, on a surface he is fully comfortably on? A surface which is close to the surface of the next GS coming up in a week's time, a surface where he has been pretty much unbeatable for 6 years.
He keeps his streak going, and some people keep acting like the "pressure of the streak" is gonna hinder him at the FO...I don't think so, I think the streak is propelling him forward, and helping him win matches he might otherwise have trouble finishing off... as it increases so does his confidence, and not just that but so does the aura of invincibility around him that his opponents can't help but think about. Obviously he's not unbeatable, but the bigger the streak the more it seems like he is. He's been dealing with "the pressure" of the streak pretty well so far, no need to assume he's gonna collapse all of a sudden.

Nadal is still the favorite, no matter what he or anyone else says. Djokovic has never even reached the final. Even if Djokovic is the favorite, this is a different player than the one who played best when there were no expectations, and folded when there were.

and pretty sure he doesn't give a fuck about the PED talk...helps weed out the idiots, actually


so, basically...no, stop it. It's never good to lose on purpose, ever. Winning Rome can only help him. Even if he doesn't win the French Open, it won't be because he didn't tank

Non-sense thread. Under what logic should Djokovic have "tanked" Rome? The extra 3-5 hours he played to win it are nothing compared to how much time he's spent on court this year. He's oozing confidence at the moment, with the biggest psychological edge that anybody has ever had on Nadal. Nadal has NO time to adapt his game to Djokovic's in a week's time before RG. The only opponents who might give Djokovic a hard time are Murray and Federer, never Nadal. Odds are that Djokovic will go on to win RG. People who believe Nadal will have an advantage in a 3 out of 5 setter tourny are too naive. Djokovic has beaten Nadal in straight sets twice in a row on both "fake" and "real" clay. You think Nadal would have gone one to take the win had they played a 3rd set? Dream on.

So a top 2 payer, who is close to becoming #1, who hasn't lost a match in 5 months should consider tanking a MS final so that he can feel "less pressured"? :lol:

He wants to be #1, win GSs, beat Rafa on clay... looks to me like he is looking for pressure :shrug:

Describes 90% of Rafito tards!

If Novak had "tanked" (:rolleyes:) it would have given Nadal back some confidence for RG. Now his confidence must be very shaken. He could lose to someone else and not even meet Novak in the final. How many other players are feeling emboldened, and thinking maybe they can take out Nadal? (especially after the Lorenzi fiasco). His aura of invincibility is fading and I think it was always a big part of his dominance.

Not everyone quivers with fear at the thought of "pressure"; I don't think it's bothering Novak at all. :cool:

Considering that he pretty much locked up No. 1 ranking that he will get some time in the summer, this is like the best thread EVA.



Hm.:devil:

Topspindoctor
06-04-2011, 01:34 AM
Can't the mods have a policy of banning obvious unfunny trolls?

Why are you trying to get yourself banned?

AndyNonomous
06-04-2011, 01:55 AM
Can't the mods have a policy of banning obvious unfunny trolls?

Why are you trying to get yourself banned?


Thanks for the bump.

Oh, and the irony.:devil:


:retard:

Sri
06-04-2011, 01:58 AM
Hm.:devil:
Well.. Djoke lost to Roger not Rafa.. Hmm

AndyNonomous
06-04-2011, 02:02 AM
Well.. Djoke lost to Roger not Rafa.. Hmm



Whats that got to do with anything.

I just postulated that Djoke would have had less pressure in RG, if he would have lost early in Rome, and Nadal would have had more, if he won Rome.

Nadal is in the final, and Djoke isn't. There is no way to say for sure if the added pressure affected the outcome, but I bet Novak wishes he had taken a different tack at Rome.

Not to mention that I took a lot of abuse, just for suggesting it is possible that the extra pressure of expectation could hurt Novak.