Poll: Is Rafa just flat out lying when he says Wimbledon is fastest slam in the world [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Poll: Is Rafa just flat out lying when he says Wimbledon is fastest slam in the world

2003
12-29-2010, 09:46 AM
How could Wimbledon possibly be faster than USO?

How can he expect anyone to take that comment with a grain of salt?

I know balls used has much to do with speed, but there is no way that court is faster than Decoturf! Its not even up for discussion!

But discuss anyway.

Kiedis
12-29-2010, 09:52 AM
It seems the first week is the fastest surface

Topspindoctor
12-29-2010, 09:55 AM
He isn't lying. Statistically Wimbledon is a slam with least service breaks and most aces.

paseo
12-29-2010, 10:01 AM
What a mug, this Nadal.

Chirag
12-29-2010, 10:24 AM
He isn't lying. Statistically Wimbledon is a slam with least service breaks and most aces.

agreed.Wimbledon is the fastest slam in the world .The break converting percentage is the least there right now than it was in 2010 or the 90s :cool:

finishingmove
12-29-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm sure he's not lying.. this time.

Pirao666
12-29-2010, 11:37 AM
He isn't lying. Statistically Wimbledon is a slam with least service breaks and most aces.

Pretty much. I'll take statistic (facts) over hater's opinions any day.

philosophicalarf
12-29-2010, 12:00 PM
You can't compare service stats from surface to surface, grass especially. A large chunk of the field can't return on grass to save themselves.

bokehlicious
12-29-2010, 12:05 PM
Rafa never lies!! back off haters! :fiery:

acionescu
12-29-2010, 12:14 PM
Are the MTFers flat out lying when they say your moustache is the hottest thing since Nerone burning Rome?

Commander Data
12-29-2010, 12:56 PM
How could Wimbledon possibly be faster than USO?

How can he expect anyone to take that comment with a grain of salt?

I know balls used has much to do with speed, but there is no way that court is faster than Decoturf! Its not even up for discussion!

But discuss anyway.

Since he won both I fail to see any reason for a "lie" in the first place.

And what about providing some source and quote?

Chiseller
12-29-2010, 01:59 PM
In what felt like two hundreds baiting threads, 2003 still gets ppl to fall for him. :hatoff:

StevoTG
12-29-2010, 02:32 PM
He isn't lying. Statistically Wimbledon is a slam with least service breaks and most aces.

Yup, resulting in it being the slam with most games per set (because there are less breaks).
Interestingly, there are three or four clay tournaments that are 'faster' than the US Open in this regard, but they're all at altitude - Bogota (now challenger),Munich and Gstaad, possibly Madrid - stat from 97-07, when Dusseldorf was also on the list.

Clay Death
12-29-2010, 02:48 PM
he has no reason to lie as CD #2 has already pointed out. listen to the people who know.

we will do your thinking and your observing for you. you can just sit back and sip root beer or something.

grass is still grass and it is fast. factor in another point: they are hitting the ball harder than ever before.

Certinfy
12-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Well from watching Llodra vs Berdych at the USO, there's absolutely no way Llodra could have come close to playing like that on the current grass courts at Wimbledon, just no way.

MariaV
12-29-2010, 02:53 PM
What a horrible lier this Nadull! :mad: :fiery:

Commander Data
12-29-2010, 03:01 PM
What a horrible lier this Nadull! :mad: :fiery:

I pity his fans :p:p:p

Johnny Groove
12-29-2010, 03:15 PM
Speed is all relative. Ball speed through the air vs. speed after the bounce, how high the bounce is, the particular ball being used, etc.

But at the end of the day, Nadal has won all 4 and if you can't trust him, who can you trust?

Matt01
12-29-2010, 03:41 PM
Wimbledon = grass.

Grass = fastest surface.

Conclusion: Nadal is not lying.

:wavey:

philosophicalarf
12-29-2010, 03:49 PM
Yup, resulting in it being the slam with most games per set (because there are less breaks).
Interestingly, there are three or four clay tournaments that are 'faster' than the US Open in this regard, but they're all at altitude - Bogota (now challenger),Munich and Gstaad, possibly Madrid - stat from 97-07, when Dusseldorf was also on the list.

Hard court slams have lowered serve stats compared to other tournaments, even when the surface and balls are identical. Aus consistently has 10% more breaks of serve than Doha/Sydney/Brisbane for example, same with the US.

tribalfusion
12-29-2010, 08:34 PM
How could ...how can he expect anyone...but there is no way...Its not even up for discussion...But discuss anyway.

Great question and posed very neutrally as well.

Sapeod
12-29-2010, 09:15 PM
He's won twice at it, so of course he'll say it's faster. If he had 2 US Open titles and 1 Wimbledon title, then he'd say the US Open is the fastest one.

That said, US Open is faster.

tribalfusion
12-29-2010, 09:19 PM
He's won twice at it, so of course he'll say it's faster. If he had 2 US Open titles and 1 Wimbledon title, then he'd say the US Open is the fastest one.

That said, US Open is faster.

Andy Murray who has 0 titles on both (and therefore must be more neutral according to your demented ad hoc criterion) says the same thing as Nadal.

When asked this question at the last USO:

Q. What are your thoughts on the speed of this court versus the speed at Wimbledon and how that affects Rafa's game?

ANDY MURRAY: It's quite clear the balls are a lot faster, a little bit harder to control the balls. Guys are serving harder. But I think the court itself I think grass is definitely still quicker than here. I just think because of the warm weather and obviously the balls being they seem very light in comparison to the Slazengers, which are pretty heavy. I think it's just a little bit harder to control the ball on the return. Obviously guys serve a little bit bigger, which might make it a bit harder for Rafa to break.



I love how you are so utterly confident that you know better than your idol Murray without ever having played so much as a point on either court (I won't dwell on you thinking you know better than Nadal given your pathological hatred of him)

_Chaz
12-29-2010, 09:23 PM
I think Nadal is one of the few who say that. For example Melzer says, US Open is faster, at least he says grass isn't the fast surface anymore:
"Es ist hier um mindestens ein paar Etagen schneller als Wimbledon – die Geschichte vom Rasen als dem schnellsten Belag ist ja ohnehin schon lang gegessen, aber hier ist es ungefähr so zu spielen wie auf einem abgespielten Teppich in einer Halle."
"It's for sure way faster here than at Wimbledon - it's already well known grass isn't the fastest surface anymore, but these courts play like some indoor carpets."
http://www.tennisnet.com/oesterreich/klartext/Wenn-sich-zweieinhalb-Stunden-in-ein-paar-Augenblicken-entscheiden/5413
I hope the translation is understandable.

tribalfusion
12-29-2010, 09:33 PM
I think Nadal is one of the few who say that

Quatsch...Murray for one says the same as Nadal right above your post and he even breaks down why some might feel the USO is faster i.e. the balls vs the surface.

Regardless, apparently there is some honest disagreement on the issue by those with considerable experience on both courts.

2003
12-29-2010, 09:54 PM
he has no reason to lie as CD #2 has already pointed out. listen to the people who know.

we will do your thinking and your observing for you. you can just sit back and sip root beer or something.

grass is still grass and it is fast. factor in another point: they are hitting the ball harder than ever before.

Prefer a large scotch to be honest.

Sham Kay
12-29-2010, 11:02 PM
Have any of us actually played on either Wimbledon or US Open surfaces? The best we've done is watched from the stands. The top players seem to say Wimbledon is faster, therefore it is truth.

2003
12-29-2010, 11:12 PM
You can't compare service stats from surface to surface, grass especially. A large chunk of the field can't return on grass to save themselves.

Exactly, it's lunacy.

For example, these Nudall tards would take someone like Del Potro and compare his stats from US Open and Wimbledon if it suited their arguement that USOpen was faster had Nadal won a couple of those and only one Wimbledon, but of course we know that Del Po is shit on grass, so it would be a hopeless arguement.

Its a weak grass era.

Ibracadabra
12-29-2010, 11:13 PM
He isn't lying. Statistically Wimbledon is a slam with least service breaks and most aces.

More to do with the fact the majority of the top 100 are clay mugs and can't break on grass. Better grass court players don't even get wildcards and sometimes dont even qualify but fognini,starace,almagro and co get automatic entry.

philosophicalarf
12-30-2010, 01:02 AM
I think Nadal is one of the few who say that. For example Melzer says, US Open is faster, at least he says grass isn't the fast surface anymore:
...
"It's for sure way faster here than at Wimbledon - it's already well known grass isn't the fastest surface anymore, but these courts play like some indoor carpets."



To be fair, US Open was particularly quick this year cos of the hot weather.

Another factor here to be considered is some players speak of the whole package - balls/weather/surface - some speak about only the surface, and it's not always clear which they're referring to. To a degree they adjust tension to suit ball weight and weather, so those are elements they can partially correct for.


More complicated is something I saw in a physics paper a while back - they used high speed cameras to measure spin rates, angles of bounce etc. The relevant thing to this discussion is that with extremely heavy topspin, with the modern grass and modern balls the ball appears to "leap forward" - ie the angle after the bounce is shallower/lower than the angle coming in. That's unique to the combination of grass and heavy topspin, on other surfaces even heavy topspin only causes it to have a mirror of the incoming angle, and other spins result in it slowing+sitting up.

In other words, Nadal's topspin on grass has the effect of increasing the pace he can get through the court. On Decoturf it's a bit of a waste of energy.

2003
12-30-2010, 05:38 AM
Would the 13 who believe that Wimbledon is faster than the United States Open please stand up??

Before Nadal won the US, what was his excuse for losing there then?

Oh, must be tiredness!

tribalfusion
12-30-2010, 05:41 AM
Would the 13 who believe that Wimbledon is faster than the United States Open please stand up??

Before Nadal won the US, what was his excuse for losing there then?

Oh, must be tiredness!

I am glad to see your tireless search for truth continues.

born_on_clay
01-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Yes, clearly.

@Sweet Cleopatra
01-01-2011, 03:02 PM
Why would he lie, don't be naive 2003...