Does TT need a Code of Conduct? Please read new post [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Does TT need a Code of Conduct? Please read new post

Goldenoldie
11-02-2010, 09:14 AM
The manager at Medellin has been subjected to a stream of abuse by one of the players, and in my view the manager's actions do not even merit criticism, never mind abuse.

Personally I would not want this particular player anywhere near a tournament I managed, but as things are at present nothing can be done unless he breaks the rules of MTF and gets himself banned.

TT is a great game, and I think its standards can be higher than those of the rest of MTF by having a Code of Conduct for both managers and players.

Does anybody agree?

buji
11-02-2010, 10:10 AM
Good idea.

Can you tell me whether the poll is a multi-choice or uni?

Goldenoldie
11-02-2010, 10:14 AM
Good idea.

Can you tell me whether the poll is a multi-choice or uni?

It's uni-choice.

You can actually tell when you come to vote, because if you try to tick twice on a uni-choice poll, your first choice gets unticked!

.-Federers_Mate-.
11-02-2010, 10:15 AM
haha

.-Federers_Mate-.
11-02-2010, 10:27 AM
The manager at Medellin has been subjected to a stream of abuse by one of the players, and in my view the manager's actions do not even merit criticism, never mind abuse.

Personally I would not want this particular player anywhere near a tournament I managed, but as things are at present nothing can be done unless he breaks the rules of MTF and gets himself banned.

TT is a great game, and I think its standards can be higher than those of the rest of MTF by having a Code of Conduct for both managers and players.

Does anybody agree?

The guy was slow and lazy to update citing going to a football match as an excuse, poste dthe OOp's late and then expected the players to do it for him, it was like he couldnt be bothered. Im sorry but if you commit to a tournye as a manger you must make the effort to do things properly, and so far he hasnt. First time or not their are no excuses for his piss poor manging or his overal laaziness. Someone had to tell him to sort his shit out and that somebody was me. Stop crying Goldenoldie and act your age not your shoe size.

i have no prob with mangers like Scoobs, who actually does the job properly.

The guy Mmarto193 doesnt deserce to mange another tournye due to his lack of dedication. Just because he is too lazy to do what he is suppossed to, other players have to work thier way around his schedule.

He needs to up his game. Big time.

orangehat
11-02-2010, 10:41 AM
:secret: The worst thing is the player in question doesn't even know the rules himself (and can't comprehend others' posts for that matter).

I would like to say that managers have the right to refuse entries but in reality that is both unfeasible and not good for the game.

bandtree
11-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Thanks Goldenoldie!!

I've been thinking about this myself for a while, and was going to mention my suggestions at year's end, but good on ya for beating me to it!

I think there should be clear expectations laid out for both players and managers. For players, there should be no tolerance for personal attacks and unsportsmanlike conduct, including bashing a manager who has time constrains in his/her personal life that does not allow down to the second posting of diffs or OOP. Many managers (including myself) have constraints that cannot be worked around, including work, school or personal pastimes in the real world. I think that any player who behaves in such a manner should be given an initial warning, and then may be subjected to suspensions of 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks, escalating until eventually they are given a permanent suspensions.

As for managers, they also must know what is expected of them. This includes posting the OOP within a reasonable time-frame, and if its not possible, arranging for someone else to post the OOP, or allowing players to send their picks in, and the manager arranging the picks after the fact. They must also have to post the diffs within a reasonable time-frame, and if its not possible, to arrange a slightly earlier deadline so that they can. I don't agree with a manager being able to not accept an entry from someone they had a run-in with before. This could get to be a slippery slope, and would be bad for the game. We want lots of players, and lots of managers!!

buji
11-02-2010, 11:49 AM
Enough of this players' trash talk.

Time to get rid of this useless merciless idiot.Im pleading for this as i know Martin(mmarto) more than anyone.

Admins please ban this guy.1st he thrashed mmarto and now Goldenoldie.

I have much more respect to Goldenoldie's commitments(mainly at this age ,he's a perfect role model for everyone in MTF).Enough is enough.

maldini
11-02-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks for this thread.

Personally I think the board should decide about things like that, because if we put up a Code of Conduct, it would probably anyway be the board to watch over that. I don't think the board will handle this arbitrarily. Abusive players (or something like that - justified criticism should to some extent of course be ok, e.g. like a 4hour frame to send picks or not updating results for 2 days, only posting OOP..) should get one warning, then a one-month ban after the second and so on or maybe also with a ban in the first place
TT players need to show much more respect towards managers. Especially players who are new, haven't managed at all and think that managers should be around all day, ridiculous. I haven't managed for a while now due to lack of time, but still I know what it needs to manage tournaments. This game would be nowhere without the managers and they should be thanked for their efforts.

Well, actually just repeating what others said before and what in my opinion should be obvious, but unfortunately things like that need to be said again and again.

FiBeR
11-02-2010, 01:00 PM
not only managers but fellow players. there should be no room for bullism on this game

scoobs
11-02-2010, 01:01 PM
The manager at Medellin has been subjected to a stream of abuse by one of the players, and in my view the manager's actions do not even merit criticism, never mind abuse.

Personally I would not want this particular player anywhere near a tournament I managed, but as things are at present nothing can be done unless he breaks the rules of MTF and gets himself banned.

TT is a great game, and I think its standards can be higher than those of the rest of MTF by having a Code of Conduct for both managers and players.

Does anybody agree?
Agree entirely - it's hard enough to attract new managers to this game (and we do need them), without having first time managers subjected to abuse and needless criticism - it's only a game, for goodness sake.

Boarder35m
11-02-2010, 02:50 PM
The manager at Medellin has been subjected to a stream of abuse by one of the players, and in my view the manager's actions do not even merit criticism, never mind abuse.

Personally I would not want this particular player anywhere near a tournament I managed, but as things are at present nothing can be done unless he breaks the rules of MTF and gets himself banned.

TT is a great game, and I think its standards can be higher than those of the rest of MTF by having a Code of Conduct for both managers and players.

Does anybody agree?

I completely agree here :yeah:

The players need to think about what they post in the tournament threads. I think that that is the main reason why so many managers don´t manage that often anymore.

diego36arg
11-02-2010, 03:23 PM
The manager at Medellin has been subjected to a stream of abuse by one of the players, and in my view the manager's actions do not even merit criticism, never mind abuse.

Personally I would not want this particular player anywhere near a tournament I managed, but as things are at present nothing can be done unless he breaks the rules of MTF and gets himself banned.

TT is a great game, and I think its standards can be higher than those of the rest of MTF by having a Code of Conduct for both managers and players.

Does anybody agree?

I completely agree ;)

Snoo Foo
11-02-2010, 03:33 PM
Im sorry but if you commit to a tournye as a manger you must make the effort to do things properly, and so far he hasnt.

yes, if you commit to managing tt, you should clear all personal and professional engagements for the duration and make arrangements with a friend, neighbor, or local 24/7 internet cafe to use their computer so you have a back-up plan in case you can't be online all day every day. better stay inside for the week preceding the tournament too so you don't come into contact with any germs or expose yourself to possible injury so you will be in peak physical condition. (ideally you should be able to go for 7 days without sleeping or using the toilet) attending football matches, weddings, funerals, school, or work is absolutely unacceptable.

Goldenoldie
11-02-2010, 03:37 PM
Stop crying Goldenoldie and act your age not your shoe size.



My age is 66 and my shoe size is 41, so your point is....???

I have some more suggestions for you, apart from the one already made.

1. Change your medication. What you are on at present is clearly not working.

2. Go on an Anger Management Course.

3. Review your posts before submitting them. You will look a lot less foolish if you differentiate between manger and manager.

4. Try prayer and meditation.

ibreak4coffee
11-02-2010, 04:02 PM
I agree with everything said above. There must be more respect on these boards - there is absolutely no reward for managing, everyone here does it "for the love of the game" and to keep everything running. And yet there are still people who come on here - the vast majority never manage themselves - and do nothing but criticize. I fully support some sort of sanctions system for repeat offenders - its not lost on anyone here that those who criticize the most are those who never manage.

At the same time, there are times when criticism is valid. If a manager knows he or she won't be around and doesn't alert everyone (or arrange for back up), then players have a right to get upset. But there are many ways to do this without starting to insult people - and when you play this game, you need to realize that everyone has a real life off these boards and it can make things difficult on short notice.

One final note - the management of TT tournaments is frankly being done increasingly by the same small group of people (Boarder35m, Goldenoldie, Scoobs etc...). This might need to be addressed. We have by my count a good 200-250 players who play at least 10-15 TT tournaments a year. While its impossible to mandate everyone should manage in order to play TT, there should be more managers to take pressure off them. I've managed 7 tournaments this year, but with work and family and other things its impossible for me to take on tournaments outside the North America/South America time zone. But I really appreciate the efforts of those who manage week in, week out almost. :worship:

Not sure if this is feasible, but perhaps as an incentive to manage we could develop a wildcard system of some sort - maybe offering spots in an ATP 250 or qualifying for a ATP 1000 event. This might encourage particularly new players and lower ranked players to manage. Frankly with Evita's spreadsheet and the support of the board members and other seasoned managers here, its not that hard to manage.

Cava
11-02-2010, 04:37 PM
Not sure if this is feasible, but perhaps as an incentive to manage we could develop a wildcard system of some sort - maybe offering spots in an ATP 250 or qualifying for a ATP 1000 event. This might encourage particularly new players and lower ranked players to manage. Frankly with Evita's spreadsheet and the support of the board members and other seasoned managers here, its not that hard to manage.

I think something like this is a good idea.
There needs to be some incentive to get more people managing.
I think everybody who manages is doing a crazy good job. I can't imagine doing so much.

156mphserve
11-02-2010, 10:26 PM
The guy was slow and lazy to update citing going to a football match as an excuse, poste dthe OOp's late and then expected the players to do it for him, it was like he couldnt be bothered. Im sorry but if you commit to a tournye as a manger you must make the effort to do things properly, and so far he hasnt. First time or not their are no excuses for his piss poor manging or his overal laaziness. Someone had to tell him to sort his shit out and that somebody was me. Stop crying Goldenoldie and act your age not your shoe size.

i have no prob with mangers like Scoobs, who actually does the job properly.

The guy Mmarto193 doesnt deserce to mange another tournye due to his lack of dedication. Just because he is too lazy to do what he is suppossed to, other players have to work thier way around his schedule.

He needs to up his game. Big time.

You're a disgrace to this game, people have lives outside of this forum, there's nothing wrong with asking someone else to post the OOP if he's away. And even if it wasn't posted, there's this neat little website that posts the OOP's in PDF format for the next day. Maybe you could check there and send your picks for all matchjes being played the next day? You're one of this biggest jerks this game has ever seen.

I have only 1 rule to propose

1. .-Federers_Mate-. isn't allowed to play

No matter what rules you can think of this one will clean up the game more than any either

Onto the topic of manager's abuse, it's riduclous, some people just don't understand how difficult it is to properly manage TT for a week. Without the managers(good or bad) theree would be no TT, they're doing the best they can, especially with their busy real life schedules, and definatley do not deserve to be critized;)

buji
11-03-2010, 04:22 AM
WC system sounds good.

Another alt will be gifting Vcash by the forum if possible.

kingroger
11-03-2010, 04:41 AM
I would suspend Federers Mate for the rest of this year.....

buji
11-04-2010, 10:07 AM
So do we reach a conclusion?

Goldenoldie
11-04-2010, 11:43 AM
So do we reach a conclusion?

From the votes and comments so far, including input from some of the most experienced and respected Tennis Tippers, it seems that the answer is Yes.

It is a great pity that it is necessary, but that's life. Where do we go from here?

I suggest that a Code be drafted in the next week or two, preferably by a board member, but I would be prepared to do it if given the necessary authority.

The Code would then be published in a new thread, and everybody could give their ideas for objections, amendments and additions over a period of say 4 weeks.

A Final Draft would then be voted on, ready to be incorporated into TT for the start of the 2011 season.

I hope that nobody thinks that this is just an over-reaction to one particular player. He is just the worst example of something that happens far too frequently.

.-Federers_Mate-.
11-04-2010, 11:49 AM
no way am i getting suspended for having a go at an incompetant manager.


I just got into the Paris masters qaulies ffs

buji
11-04-2010, 11:51 AM
I think no one will mind or offend if u come up with a neat plan providing rules and associated stuffs.

Hope this brings things good next yr.

Goldenoldie
11-04-2010, 11:54 AM
no way am i getting suspended for having a go at an incompetant manager.


I just got into the Paris masters qaulies ffs

No sanctions will be retrospective, and the proposal relates to the 2011 season, so your participation in Paris is irrelevant. Read what is written.

Peta Pan
11-04-2010, 12:05 PM
All sounds good to me. The last thing we need is more managers being driven away by rude players. The new managers are what are keeping this game going

FiBeR
11-04-2010, 04:34 PM
Ive been complaining for years about this issue without success.

finally the MTF mods had to step in after one of the fellow players who harrassed other posters for years ended up being banned from the forum when this could have been solved in 2007 with ease instead of letting this grow so big. action is not a quality of these board.

TT board should have banned this player from the game years ago or done something instead they gave the blind eye and even praised bullism calling it "good for the game" , "fun" and even giving tournaments to manage (big and important ones). Do you honestly expect, people, this TT board to grow some balls all of a sudden and create an efficient code of conduct?

I wish they did, but I dont live in wonderland :rolls:

Nothing is likely to be done here.. cos this board is like MTF, not perfect, made by humans and of course, this is a hobbie.. so i suggest relaxing a bit and not taking things too seriously when it comes to these clowns who always want to ruin the game :)

Goldenoldie
11-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Ive been complaining for years about this issue without success.

finally the MTF mods had to step in after one of the fellow players who harrassed other posters for years ended up being banned from the forum when this could have been solved in 2007 with ease instead of letting this grow so big. action is not a quality of these board.

TT board should have banned this player from the game years ago or done something instead they gave the blind eye and even praised bullism calling it "good for the game" , "fun" and even giving tournaments to manage (big and important ones). Do you honestly expect, people, this TT board to grow some balls all of a sudden and create an efficient code of conduct?

I wish they did, but I dont live in wonderland :rolls:

Nothing is likely to be done here.. cos this board is like MTF, not perfect, made by humans and of course, this is a hobbie.. so i suggest relaxing a bit and not taking things too seriously when it comes to these clowns who always want to ruin the game :)

Please don't be such a defeatist. The fact that nothing was done in the past does not necessarily mean that nothing will be done in the future.

This proposal has the support of at least 3 TT board members, and I hope they will take it forward themselves, or give me authority to do so.

I am well aware of your issues with another poster, and I have no intention of taking sides, but let's put what did or did not happen in 2007 to one side.

I have been a member of MTF for only 18 months, a player on TT for 10 months and a TT manager for 5 or 6 months, so maybe I'm too much of a newbie to make a difference.
But I'm damn well going to try, and will welcome your support.

ibreak4coffee
11-04-2010, 06:16 PM
Please don't be such a defeatist. The fact that nothing was done in the past does not necessarily mean that nothing will be done in the future.

This proposal has the support of at least 3 TT board members, and I hope they will take it forward themselves, or give me authority to do so.

I am well aware of your issues with another poster, and I have no intention of taking sides, but let's put what did or did not happen in 2007 to one side.

I have been a member of MTF for only 18 months, a player on TT for 10 months and a TT manager for 5 or 6 months, so maybe I'm too much of a newbie to make a difference.
But I'm damn well going to try, and will welcome your support.

Goldenoldie - I fully support what you're doing. And I won't be alone either in the off-season - there is practically universal agreement about this. Plus unlike some of the issues last year that were deemed not as important because they only concerned lower ranked players, this impacts everyone. I know we've already lost a few regulars this season after unwarranted abuse, and enough is enough.

Your idea comes at a perfect time too. With only a couple of weeks left in the season, we have plenty of time to discuss a Code of Conduct and get it right before play begins again on January 1. I imagine what type of sanction - if any - should be imposed for a breach of conduct will be the most contentious issue.

While I'm not a board member, I'll help you anyway I can :wavey:

FiBeR
11-04-2010, 06:17 PM
you have my full support. i wish you luck dealing with the likes of some of the TT board members and fellow TT players who would not agree with this and probably fight you back.

Taz Warrior
11-06-2010, 10:18 AM
From the votes and comments so far, including input from some of the most experienced and respected Tennis Tippers, it seems that the answer is Yes.

It is a great pity that it is necessary, but that's life. Where do we go from here?

I suggest that a Code be drafted in the next week or two, preferably by a board member, but I would be prepared to do it if given the necessary authority.

The Code would then be published in a new thread, and everybody could give their ideas for objections, amendments and additions over a period of say 4 weeks.

A Final Draft would then be voted on, ready to be incorporated into TT for the start of the 2011 season.

I hope that nobody thinks that this is just an over-reaction to one particular player. He is just the worst example of something that happens far too frequently.

I like your proposal and would be happy for you to come up with an initial draft :yeah:

Goldenoldie
11-07-2010, 01:05 PM
A draft has been sent to Gav, and if he approves it will be published in a new thread for general comment.

This thread is now closed, and thanks to everyone who contributed.

bandtree
11-07-2010, 10:57 PM
On the plus side, the player who caused this whole discussion in the first place has been banned!! (wishing death)

Is anyone really surprised?? :lol:

ibreak4coffee
11-07-2010, 11:15 PM
On the plus side, the player who caused this whole discussion in the first place has been banned!! (wishing death)

Is anyone really surprised?? :lol:

Well the player he abused who we all supported had a small go at me today in a FITD thread - certainly nowhere near the level Federers Mate achieved in his epic rant, but still done in a manner I did not appreciate considering he should understand better than anyone else that first time managers make mistakes (especially when they have a wife fighting the flu and a full time job...)

bandtree
11-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Well the player he abused who we all supported had a small go at me today in a FITD thread - certainly nowhere near the level Federers Mate achieved in his epic rant, but still done in a manner I did not appreciate considering he should understand better than anyone else that first time managers make mistakes (especially when they have a wife fighting the flu and a full time job...)

Yeah, it was probably a valid suggestion/criticism, but I wouldn't have appreciated the eye-roll either. I don't think it was meant in a bad way, though. Sometimes those smileys don't help. :rolleyes::mad::smash::smooch::rain::boxing: :shrug: :toothy:

156mphserve
11-08-2010, 12:43 AM
haha, I wouldn't put too much into the eye roll, he puts that after everyone of his posts, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what it means, because most of the time it's totally out of context, so don't read much into it;)

Goldenoldie
11-08-2010, 12:52 AM
Smiley usage summary:-

I am :angel:

Everybody else is :devil:

jervisjames
11-09-2010, 08:46 PM
I agree, sick of this whack job. I think more complaints to the board will be enough to have him suspended. This is by no means the first time, at least a monthly occurrence. See Paris for instance when thinking she was bumped to an ALT position. BAN I SAY!

GustavoM_Fan
11-09-2010, 08:49 PM
Ive been complaining for years about this issue without success.

finally the MTF mods had to step in after one of the fellow players who harrassed other posters for years ended up being banned from the forum when this could have been solved in 2007 with ease instead of letting this grow so big. action is not a quality of these board.

TT board should have banned this player from the game years ago or done something instead they gave the blind eye and even praised bullism calling it "good for the game" , "fun" and even giving tournaments to manage (big and important ones). Do you honestly expect, people, this TT board to grow some balls all of a sudden and create an efficient code of conduct?

I wish they did, but I dont live in wonderland :rolls:

Nothing is likely to be done here.. cos this board is like MTF, not perfect, made by humans and of course, this is a hobbie.. so i suggest relaxing a bit and not taking things too seriously when it comes to these clowns who always want to ruin the game :)

:baby:

156mphserve
11-09-2010, 08:50 PM
he is banned, 3 months for wishing death:p

jervisjames
11-09-2010, 09:19 PM
Ah, didnt read past page 1. Cheers all. Nuf said ;)

Goldenoldie
12-28-2010, 09:19 AM
The Draft Code of Conduct is now ready for publication and will be uploaded to a new thread in the next few hours.

Unfortunately it has taken longer than expected, but there has been considerable discussion by the board, and we hope that this code will meet with (almost) universal approval.

Comments will be welcome, but the Code is to be voted on as a package, not item by item.

There will be one week for voting.