How Roger is doing compared to the all time greats [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How Roger is doing compared to the all time greats

LCeh
09-14-2004, 02:14 AM
From Mitalidas's article, they posted us a chart of slam leaders and their success at the age of 23:

Player Slams aged 23 Total
P Sampras (US) 7 14
R Emerson (Aus) 0 12
B Borg (Swe) 8 11
R Laver (Aus) 5 11
J Connors (US) 4 8
I Lendl (Cz Rep) 0 8
A Agassi (US) 1 8
J Newcombe (Aus) 2 7
J McEnroe (US) 4 7

I don't think Roger can get to Pete's record, but 8 or above would be a safe call IMO.

Gonzo Hates Me!
09-14-2004, 02:16 AM
Why do you not think he can get there?

WyveN
09-14-2004, 02:18 AM
At the exact same stage of their career Pete was 1 slam above Roger.

I am not sure that roger is all to concerned about where he stands on the all time least but if he does the next level to aim at is probably Becked/Edberg who both won 6 slams each.

WyveN
09-14-2004, 02:19 AM
Why do you not think he can get there?

14 slams is just huge, it would take another 3 or 4 years like 2004 to get there which is scary.

Dirk
09-14-2004, 02:24 AM
I think Rogi could get over 10 slams and possibly win two of each.

makro120
09-14-2004, 02:55 AM
Federer's late development is not to be forgotten. We don't even know if he has topped his game yet as he has developped so fast, I mean 7 tournaments last year, Houston and Wimbledon and we all thought it was a totaly amazing year and now he comes this year and has the greatest year ever except Rod ALver in the open era. Next year, 4 grand slams?

Sampras really went downhill from beeing 23 years old and his body was alot more heavy than Roger's and he got more problems with injury because of it. 7 grand slams til he was 23 years old and 7 thereafter? It shouldn't be that way (hey, are we talking about late 23 or early 23 like Fed is, Fed might win 3 more grand slams while he is 23 years old..).

If Federer wins 2 Grand slams every year for the next 5 years the record is almost broken and he will be 28 years old. If he goes own to Agassi's age, or lets just say 30-32 years old still in the top of tennis, he might get to 20.

I am absolutely convinced he will win a real grand slam once in his career, it just is something which has to happen to such an amazing player.

Just watch these wild predictions (2 years ago I once said he would win 16 grand slams, now I think he will go up to 20 and even more!):

8 wimbledon titles
6 Australian open titles
5 US open titles
2 French open titles

1 REAL GRAND SLAM!

We don't have to be afraid, maybe you think I am demanding too much and putting too much pressure on Fed, but I am quite sure he isn't reading this, because it would certanly not be good for him to know what his fans go around hoping for.

Gonzo Hates Me!
09-14-2004, 03:10 AM
I think all-around, Federer is better than Sampras and has *potential* to do more than him. Even with all the guys getting better and the field getting tougher and quality being so high, Federer is still a step above the rest. And I know that only time will tell and he will get older and be playing against a new crop of youngsters, but he is sooo far from the Federer of 2001,2002 that didnt have his head screwed on straight--losing stupid matches--not realizing his talent. I truly believe that he can surpass Pete's record. I dont know if I want him to, just 'cause Pete is the love of my life, and it would be sad to see his record get broken, but, I think Roger can do it if he just never goes back to the way he was as a person who didnt know what to do with their gift, and as long as he stays dedicated and driven. You can look at Roger, at his demeanor and his comments--he knows he is capable of something extraordinary. Nobody compares to him, well, a few players, kinda :D, but for now, noooooo

Daniel
09-14-2004, 08:10 AM
I think in 2005 he will win 2 GS at least :worship: :bounce:

yanchr
09-14-2004, 05:09 PM
I do think Roger has a shot at Pete's record of 14 slams. His game style probably will enable him to last longer on court than Pete. Let's just hope he doesn't get some serious injury or he gets bored soon with his loneliness at the very top of the pyramid.

makro120
09-14-2004, 05:56 PM
You guys are very shy Federer fans who seem afraid to be disappointed, that is okay. But I am more interested to have realistic expectations than modest, so I would say he will continue to develop, he will have less 1st round looses to nobodies as he gets mroe experienced, but continue to be ultimately above everyone else in the top 10.

Inside me I actualy feel kind of modest saying he will only win 1 real grand slam. I am predicting it would be next year, but why would he top his game at the age of 23-24?

Maybe he will win 2 real grand slams and this way equal with Laver. Also I want him to win 6 straight wimbledons and beat Borg's record. I also think he is capable of winning the french open more times than 2 once he gets how to play in Roland Garros, but I will wait for the clay season next year to update my prediction for Federer's legendary future career. He must break every record out there, but I don't think he can beat Jimmy connors numbers of titles anyway..

Records to beat:

Jimmy Connor's 106 titles (86 to go..)
Agassi's 17 MAster series
Sampras' 5 master cup titles
Sampras' 6 years as nr1
Sampras' 14 grand slams
Sampras' 7 wimbledon titles
Mcenroe's 82 matches won during 1 year (this one he can do this year!)
Muster's 12 titles in 1 year (this one he could do this year)
Vilas 50-something straight matches won
Borg's 5 straight wimbledon titles
Roddick's 153 mph serve (hehe..)

MisterQ
09-14-2004, 06:04 PM
I truly believe that he can surpass Pete's record. I dont know if I want him to, just 'cause Pete is the love of my life, and it would be sad to see his record get broken, but, I think Roger can do it if he just never goes back to the way he was as a person who didnt know what to do with their gift, and as long as he stays dedicated and driven.

LOL, I sort of feel the same way about Roger winning the French --- I want Andre to remain the only career grand slam winner of the past 35 years, hehe. ;) But I think Roger WILL win the French eventually. He's too good not to. As for reaching Pete's record, well that's a very tall task, only time will tell if he can do that. One slam at a time I guess... :)

It's very interesting looking at the trajectories of those great players' careers. There is really no pattern. Some start out with incredible results, and then can't seem to win majors any more, like McEnroe, Wilander, and Hingis. Others, like Emerson and Navratilova, are late bloomers. Some are fairly consistent throughout a long period. And then you have someone like Agassi, who unexpectedly goes from a good player to a great player by winning 5 slams AFTER the age of 28. So it just goes to show that it's hard to predict based on a player's current results.

lsy
09-14-2004, 06:14 PM
It's very interesting looking at the trajectories of those great players' careers. There is really no pattern. Some start out with incredible results, and then can't seem to win majors any more, like McEnroe, Wilander, and Hingis. Others, like Emerson and Navratilova, are late bloomers. Some are fairly consistent throughout a long period. And then you have someone like Agassi, who unexpectedly goes from a good player to a great player by winning 5 slams AFTER the age of 28. So it just goes to show that it's hard to predict based on a player's current results.

Very true MisterQ.

Though to me, very simple I just want one pattern from Rogi. To win Wimby every year till he retires, and then throwing in AO, FO and USO in turns yearly. Just 2 slams a year pattern, not too greedy :lol:

jtipson
09-14-2004, 06:29 PM
Wow, many optimistic expectations here!
Here's my take (barring injury, boredom, etc):

1. Calendar year Grand Slam: possible, but I don't think he'll do it (would love to be proven wrong). I think the 3-slam year is repeatable, but will probably be as good as it gets.

2. Non-calendar year Grand Slam: an achievement that should have the same status as a CYGS (who said it had to start in January??). This is slightly easier and therefore a bit more likely. If he defends the AO coming up, then it could happen at RG in 2005. Still don't think he'll do it, but he might have another shot in a couple of years.

3. Career Grand Slam: most likely of these. To complete this, he only needs one very good year at RG in the rest of his career. However, from the interviews I've read over the past few days, it looks like he will still be concentrating more on defending Wimbledon, as that's the title that's most important to him. Does he really believe he can win Roland Garros? Until he does, I don't think he will.

WyveN
09-15-2004, 12:39 AM
3. Career Grand Slam: most likely of these. To complete this, he only needs one very good year at RG in the rest of his career. However, from the interviews I've read over the past few days, it looks like he will still be concentrating more on defending Wimbledon, as that's the title that's most important to him. Does he really believe he can win Roland Garros? Until he does, I don't think he will.

You have a point but on the other hand I think this US Open victory came as a complete shock to him as well, in the interviews he was saying he never imagined he would be sitting here as a winner etc

I think the FO/Wimbledon double in the same year is almost impossible both physically and mentally, I am certain part of the reason Roger has looked almost unbeatable on grass is because of the early FO exits giving him more time to practice. Interesting that the one time Pete lost at Wimbledon between 1993-2000 is the one year that he went deep into the FO.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-15-2004, 01:35 AM
I would like him to have a real go at the French Open and not use he doesn't like the Chartier court excuse, he handled gale-like conditions against the best wind player in the world in his home country, this is his real challenge.

makro, I would rather be a reasonable Federer fan, than someone who is arrogant and makes outlandish claims, I remember one clown saying after Federer lost at the Olympics, that he was burnt out, and that got proven wrong.

As long as he keeps on improving and not lose motivation, he has a good attitude, so that should help him, barring injury there are very good time ahead.

martirogi
09-15-2004, 01:54 AM
In today's age with the increased competitiveness Fed could get worn out quicker than the greats of the past, I'd say 8 or 9 is a safe number.

Billabong
09-15-2004, 02:28 AM
Rogi:worship:!

makro120
09-16-2004, 10:06 AM
I am not arrogant at all, I just really belive Federer has the skills to go and win praticaly every grand slam out there as long as he plays like he has done this year, obviously the french open is still hard even if he plays his best tennis, but the other tournaments are a piece of cake for Fedex in form, only an aging Agassi can match him!

I try to be as realistic as possible and not let him surprise me next year, imagine if Federer will develop his concentration even more next year and not loose those 1st round matches against nobodys? As long as he can face top players in the last 3 rounds, I don't see him loosing any tournament. Why wouldn't he win 4 grand slams next year? He won 3 this year, is still developping and won his 3 grand slams pretty easy, Federer has made me belive he can do anything on court, already some years ago I thought Fed would be the one to accomplish what LAver had done +30 years ago, now he made me belive he can win a grand slam already next year.

jtipson
09-16-2004, 10:17 AM
I believe he has the skills to win a Grand Slam too, but there is a big difference in thinking that and believing that he will do it next year. It's more likely, in my opinion, that he will only win 2, 1 or no GS tournaments in 2005. Years like this one don't occur very often, even for the best players like Roger.

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-16-2004, 10:41 AM
makro, you claim you are not arrogant about Federer, when you have already shown it, by claiming that he has lost matches to nobodies. Henman, Guga, Costa, Nadal, Hrbaty and Berdych are not nobodies for a start, and if so, why are they nobodies?
Guga and Costa have won Slams, Henman has made semis, plus Nadal and Berdych have outstanding futures, plus Dom knows him very well.

You are kidding if you think he is going to win the Grand Slam next year? He has the potential to do it, but that doesn't mean he will do it, and this has been a great year for Roger, but it doesn't mean he is going to win at least 3 Slams every year.

You are not being realistic at all, if you expect him to consistently have seasons like this every year and I agree with jtipson, he might win 1 or 2 at best next year, but your expectation is silly.

WyveN
09-16-2004, 12:38 PM
No matter how talented you are it is extremely difficult to maintain motivation/concentration for long periods of time and keep winning slams. There are still many uncertainties about Roger.

We still don't know how Federer will react to a slam final loss for example, will it fire him up further like it did to Sampras or will it shift his focus from tennis like it did with Borg when Mcenroe took his Wimbledon crown.

Even his follow up to this magnificent year will be interesting, will he still train as hard as ever which is needed no matter how much skill you have or will he get complacent and take it easy in the off season.

Roger certainly has the talent for 14+ slams and the calendar year grand slams but there are still many uncertainties.

ytben
09-16-2004, 04:51 PM
I for one think the kind of year he's currently having is one of a kind thing that won't happen again. I will be glad to be proven wrong. It is unreasonable to expect Rogi to repeat this year or even top it.

I mean he won 3 GSs, 3 TMSs, haven't lost to a fellow top ten this year....

Good point Wyv. Yeah it will interesting to see how Rogi will approach next year. I hope he will still be motivated to get better.

Fedex
09-16-2004, 10:37 PM
Federer's late development is not to be forgotten. We don't even know if he has topped his game yet as he has developped so fast, I mean 7 tournaments last year, Houston and Wimbledon and we all thought it was a totaly amazing year and now he comes this year and has the greatest year ever except Rod ALver in the open era. Next year, 4 grand slams?

Sampras really went downhill from beeing 23 years old and his body was alot more heavy than Roger's and he got more problems with injury because of it. 7 grand slams til he was 23 years old and 7 thereafter? It shouldn't be that way (hey, are we talking about late 23 or early 23 like Fed is, Fed might win 3 more grand slams while he is 23 years old..).

If Federer wins 2 Grand slams every year for the next 5 years the record is almost broken and he will be 28 years old. If he goes own to Agassi's age, or lets just say 30-32 years old still in the top of tennis, he might get to 20.

I am absolutely convinced he will win a real grand slam once in his career, it just is something which has to happen to such an amazing player.

Just watch these wild predictions (2 years ago I once said he would win 16 grand slams, now I think he will go up to 20 and even more!):

8 wimbledon titles
6 Australian open titles
5 US open titles
2 French open titles

1 REAL GRAND SLAM!

We don't have to be afraid, maybe you think I am demanding too much and putting too much pressure on Fed, but I am quite sure he isn't reading this, because it would certanly not be good for him to know what his fans go around hoping for.
That seems a bit far fetched. I think by the end of his career he will have more USO titles than Aus Open titles because his game is more suited to the fast courts of the USO, rather than the slower, high bounce in Australia. I'd say he will win more Wimbledons than any other slam, but I dont know about 8. :lol:

Fedex
09-16-2004, 10:43 PM
makro, you claim you are not arrogant about Federer, when you have already shown it, by claiming that he has lost matches to nobodies. Henman, Guga, Costa, Nadal, Hrbaty and Berdych are not nobodies for a start, and if so, why are they nobodies?
Guga and Costa have won Slams, Henman has made semis, plus Nadal and Berdych have outstanding futures, plus Dom knows him very well.

You are kidding if you think he is going to win the Grand Slam next year? He has the potential to do it, but that doesn't mean he will do it, and this has been a great year for Roger, but it doesn't mean he is going to win at least 3 Slams every year.

You are not being realistic at all, if you expect him to consistently have seasons like this every year and I agree with jtipson, he might win 1 or 2 at best next year, but your expectation is silly.
Well, the only one out of that list thats a 'nobody' is Berdych. But obviously, he is recognised more and more now, for his win over Federer in Athens. I dobut he will do much more in his career though. He could do what Costa and Johansson did, and win a slam, but I strongly doubt he will. Nadal does have an excelent future ahead of him, if he can keep his head straight. The rest are all well known.

jtipson
09-16-2004, 11:45 PM
An aside: I don't understand why people here diss Berdych. I've not seen him play, but he's still a teenager and have heard that he is very talented. I think it's a bit early to write him off.

Edit: just looked up his profile on the ITF db and discover that he's no longer a teenager tomorrow. But he's still young.

LCeh
09-16-2004, 11:56 PM
He is indeed very talented. I have seen him play against Haas, he has game. If he can make himself mentally stronger, I see becoming at least a top 20 player, if not 10. Compared to most of the top 10-20's I would say he is much more talented than most of them. (Top 10-20's as in ranked 11-20) ;)

PerezRoldan
09-17-2004, 05:13 AM
Well, the only one out of that list thats a 'nobody' is Berdych. But obviously, he is recognised more and more now, for his win over Federer in Athens. I dobut he will do much more in his career though. He could do what Costa and Johansson did, and win a slam, but I strongly doubt he will. Nadal does have an excelent future ahead of him, if he can keep his head straight. The rest are all well known.

I have seen Berdych play live more than once and no he is not a gimp at all, and has a very good attacking game, he can upset the bigger players, though he needs to improve his consistency, but makro is just being an unrealistic clown with a prediction of 20 Slams.

shaoyu
09-17-2004, 06:40 AM
Hi guys even if you don't agree with Makro please don't flame him. He is only stating his opinion. If you are a true Fed fan you should understand his 20 slam prediction is not *impossible*, even if a bit unrealistic. Consider Graf had already achieved that. Yes men's depth is much greater, but given Roger's talent, I wouldn't write off that possibility completely. If you are worried about putting pressure on Roger, please, one fan's prediction won't put much pressure on him, considering how many legendary figures have already put great expectations on him.

Zetlandsk
09-17-2004, 06:44 AM
shaoyu, none of them have ever said he would win 20 Slams.

Dirk
09-17-2004, 07:14 AM
Rogi was sick, tired, or just playing really shitty in his losses to Nadal, Thomas, Hrbaty. I don't think much of them. Rogi's motivation doesn't seem like it will fade. I'm sure he will do his best for the rest of the season and work hard during the off season once his body gives him the green light. Slam final losses be dammed, Rogi won't stop trying his best to win each and every slam and every event he plays. Who knows what kind of year he will have but I am sure his game and his weapons will be even sharper unless he gets hurt. I don't have a fantasy figure I want him to obtain in terms of slams. I just want him to do his best and enjoy his career and life.

FryslanBoppe
09-17-2004, 09:28 AM
Dirk, at least you are consistent in making excuses for Federer's losses. So it's totally out of the realms of possibility that these respective players were better on the day and played the big points better and won these matches, you claim Federer is human, yet for the most part you are making excuses for his losses.

I don't have a fantasy figure I want him to obtain in terms of slams. I just want him to do his best and enjoy his career and life.

That's all anyone can really ask for.

Daniel
09-18-2004, 12:29 AM
Hope he finishes the season with one more title :yeah:

mitalidas
09-18-2004, 03:25 AM
So it's totally out of the realms of possibility that these respective players were better on the day and played the big points better and won these matches.

it is a matter of perspective whether they played better that day, or Rogi played worse that day
I think he gets caught offguard by people he has not played before (nadal, berdych), or not played for a long time (hrbaty). costa and henman beat him by playing better probably

in all of this hoopla i think the key is that when the stakes are high such as a big match, or a top-10 guy, he has brought his A game to bear

Dirk
09-18-2004, 04:37 AM
Frysan if you think 59 errors including ten double faults and only 19 winners against Thomas is just getting outplayed that day and not playing terrible then you can interrupt it that way. I will allow the stats (source of logic) to make up my mind. The Nadal match rogi was very ill during miami and barfed on the first day of the event and missed his first practice and nearly lost to Koyla because of it. Hrabty Rogi just wasn't good enough and was just a little too sloppy that day from his big win in Canada. Guga and Costa outplayed him. I will call them credible wins. The loss to Henman was well.... Rogi was in pain from Oz in his shoulder and right foot. Still given his head to head with tim on indoors I would call that one credible too. Yes Federer is human which he why he gets sick and feels physical pain and gets weary. That led to his losses to Tim, nadal, and Hrbaty. See Fry I am right again. ;)