Worst imaginable matchup for Nadal ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Worst imaginable matchup for Nadal ?

fsoica
08-22-2010, 12:49 PM
It's common knowledge Nadal has a positive H2H vs almost every player out there, maybe except Nalbandian and Davydenko.

I was wondering if any tennis specialist could imagine the perfect anti-Nadal player. No with real life examples like del Potro or Djokovic, but with physical characteristics, strong points and perfect game plans against the Spaniard.

U can take out clay of this discution since real life showed us no way to beat piggy, except maybe a god-mode Federer, Djokovic or Coria who all came 1 point close of doing something like beating the mallorcan on clay when he was in form.

So, how would u describe the worst possible matchup for Rafa ? (something like what he is for Federer, let's say...)

Action Jackson
08-22-2010, 12:50 PM
Sergio Roitman.

fsoica
08-22-2010, 12:53 PM
Sergio Roitman.

I forgot to mention: apart from Sergio :cool:

Har-Tru
08-22-2010, 01:01 PM
Patrick Rafter.

finn98
08-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Do u spend most of the days thinking evil about Nadal or just this day..
Either way..U spend too much time on Nadal for a hater..

On Clay.... Actually 2009 FO Soderling can really take it to Nadal even if he is healthy..

murray_2k8
08-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Same as everyone else:

Peak Murray. Be afraid.

Bilbo
08-22-2010, 01:09 PM
P. Rafter

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 01:09 PM
The worst match up for Rafa would be a guy who moves very well, can stay patient and consistent in rallies and not allow Rafa to control points with the forehand, a guy who has first strike ability/ability to change direction/power with both FH/BH, a big serve, a good returner and the ability to finish points and not allow Rafa to get into rallies when he's on the defensive.

Look at the guys who are currently playing, think Murray with the consistent power of Soderling and the ball striking/ability to take the ball early of a peak Davydenko.

latso
08-22-2010, 01:15 PM
A left handed, taller Davydenko would kick Rafa's butt on any surface

syc23
08-22-2010, 01:19 PM
The Murray from USO '08 - served out of his mind that day and the barrage of aggressive ground strokes was too much for him that day. Probably the only time I've seen him kneeling over tugging his shorts looking exhausted.

finn98
08-22-2010, 01:21 PM
I think Peak Murray can give Nadal nightmares even on Clay...
Even when He is agressive He cant put away d ball against Murray..It frustrates him mentally :lol: :lol: They met only once i think at MC 2009..where Nadal won first set 6-2.He had a break in the second..Then Murray got into d game and broke nadal and it went to a tiebreak..The expression on Nadal's face after He won d tiebreak was that of a relieved man. :lol:
I think Murray can definitely take sets off Nadal on Clay if they meet in d future..:cool:

Action Jackson
08-22-2010, 01:24 PM
Murray doesn't move well enough on clay and his forehand isn't up to it on the surface.

finn98
08-22-2010, 01:26 PM
A left handed, taller Davydenko would kick Rafa's butt on any surface

Murrays Backhand can be considered as a Lefty Forehand...:shrug:
Davydenko is overrated in my opinion when it comes to Nadal.. Peak Nadal can wipe d floor with Davy as shown in Doha final 1st set..He had two wins over clueless Nadal in last season and improved his H2H..Nadal couldn't hit a down the line FH to save his ass in those matches...and He still made the matches close.. :)

madmax
08-22-2010, 01:40 PM
no need to create any imaginery player as peak and healthy Pony kicks Nadull's ass on any surface - tall, huge groundies and not bothered by spin one bit.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 01:42 PM
Murray doesn't have the game to be really top notch on clay. The movement, but also he doesn't have the pure weight of shot. Also, the first serve percentage would be a major issue on clay because it gives Rafa more time to return the ball.

Rafa has a great record against left handed players, because he can move his forehand away from the opponents forehand and drag them out wide out of position. A lefty forehand is so much different than a solid two handed righty backhand, there is no comparison.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 01:43 PM
no need to create any imaginery player as peak and healthy Pony kicks Nadull's ass on any surface - tall, huge groundies and not bothered by spin one bit.

Not sure about that.

finn98
08-22-2010, 01:45 PM
no need to create any imaginery player as peak and healthy Pony kicks Nadull's ass on any surface - tall, huge groundies and not bothered by spin one bit.

Delpotro's USO performance is so overrated.. Looks like Sky is d limit for over blown exaggerations when it comes to Nadal-Delpo. :rolleyes: Nadal should have never lost that Miami match and should've won that 1st set in Toronto. Nadal had no chance in USO..just like He had none the previous years..Even a peak Delpo would play like 2008 Hamburg Djokovic and would eventually lose to Nadal on Clay :)

peribsen
08-22-2010, 02:00 PM
Himself.

He'd never be able to return his own serve. That would be good for him, a chance at last to defend serve competently, since it seems that lately all other players on the tour have little trouble in dealing with Rafa's serve.

Of course, there is a downside: he'd have to go for second serves in order to have a chance of rabbiting around the net and maybe returning a few of them. He's probably training for this, and that's the reason why he is serving so many second serves these last weeks.

Cunning Rafael.

fsoica
08-22-2010, 02:13 PM
Himself.

He'd never be able to return his own serve. That would be good for him, a chance at last to defend serve competently, since it seems that lately all other players on the tour have little trouble in dealing with Rafa's serve.

Of course, there is a downside: he'd have to go for second serves in order to have a chance of rabbiting around the net and maybe returning a few of them. He's probably training for this, and that's the reason why he is serving so many second serves these last weeks.

Cunning Rafael.

whatta picture !
Nadal playing Nadal !
Wall against wall !
Nice idea !

fsoica
08-22-2010, 02:31 PM
Do u spend most of the days thinking evil about Nadal or just this day..
Either way..U spend too much time on Nadal for a hater..

On Clay.... Actually 2009 FO Soderling can really take it to Nadal even if he is healthy..

u've got me dude !
psychology degree, ah ?

get'outta here...

cocrcici
08-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Daniel Brands.:armed:

HKz
08-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Murrays Backhand can be considered as a Lefty Forehand...:shrug:
Davydenko is overrated in my opinion when it comes to Nadal.. Peak Nadal can wipe d floor with Davy as shown in Doha final 1st set..He had two wins over clueless Nadal in last season and improved his H2H..Nadal couldn't hit a down the line FH to save his ass in those matches...and He still made the matches close.. :)

Show me where in their H2H it shows that peak-Nadal can "wipe d floor with Davy."

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ewck8j.jpg

Yes, Nadal has beaten Nikolay in straight sets twice on clay, but Nikolay has beaten Nadal in straight sets three times on hardcourts.

straitup
08-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Show me where in their H2H it shows that peak-Nadal can "wipe d floor with Davy."

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ewck8j.jpg

Yes, Nadal has beaten Nikolay in straight sets twice on clay, but Nikolay has beaten Nadal in straight sets three times on hardcourts.

And he has given Nadal arguably one of his toughest tests on clay, behind Djokovic at Madrid and Federer at Rome

lazybear
08-22-2010, 03:38 PM
Pony comes close, i think on a hard court, their matches will always be on his raquet. If he can ever learn to move on grass, he'll have a chance there too. On clay... Well, i'd still give him the most chance against Nadal, but the spaniard would be the favourite probably every time. I hope both will have a healthy year in 2011, and we can see that matchup more and more.

Sophocles
08-22-2010, 03:52 PM
Any good player on an indoor court.

Sapeod
08-22-2010, 04:36 PM
What's with this finn98 guy and writing "d" instead of "the"??? :retard:

Peak Murray and peak Del Potro would both wipe the floor with Nadal on hard, and give him a lot of problems on clay. On grass, peak Murray would easily beat him, while Del Potro would still have a tough time, since his movement isn't very good on grass.

Ibracadabra
08-22-2010, 05:20 PM
Juan martin del potro.

Puschkin
08-22-2010, 05:22 PM
Peak Murray and peak Del Potro would both wipe the floor with Nadal on clay......
:rolls: Stop dreaming!

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 05:42 PM
Murrays Backhand can be considered as a Lefty Forehand...:shrug:
Davydenko is overrated in my opinion when it comes to Nadal.. Peak Nadal can wipe d floor with Davy as shown in Doha final 1st set..He had two wins over clueless Nadal in last season and improved his H2H..Nadal couldn't hit a down the line FH to save his ass in those matches...and He still made the matches close.. :)


That's bullshit Davydenko was spraying errors left and right in the 1st set. Both were playing there best in the tb and look what happenned.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 05:46 PM
What's with this finn98 guy and writing "d" instead of "the"??? :retard:

Peak Murray and peak Del Potro would both wipe the floor with Nadal on clay, and give him a lot of problems on clay. On grass, peak Murray would easily beat him, while Del Potro would still have a tough time, since his movement isn't very good on grass.

HELL no. There is NO WAY IN HELL they would wipe the floor with Rafa on clay. Murray is not even REMOTELY on the level of Nadal on clay or grass. Murray had his chance to beat him at Wimbledon and failed. Del Potro doesn't move well enough and plays too many balls down the middle, where on clay Rafa can just use the forehand to move JMDP around and expose his mobility. Also his power is blunted on the surface.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 05:47 PM
That's bullshit Davydenko was spraying errors left and right in the 1st set. Both were playing there best in the tb and look what happenned.

We can call it what it was, or make excuses on the poor form of the opponent, but the fact is Rafa was completely outplaying Davydenko for about 1.9 sets. That's just a fact, which shows Rafa can defeat Nikolay, if he plays well throughout a match.

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 05:51 PM
We can call it what it was, or make excuses on the poor form of the opponent, but the fact is Rafa was completely outplaying Davydenko for about 1.9 sets. That's just a fact, which shows Rafa can defeat Nikolay, if he plays well throughout a match.

So Nadal should have been leading 6-0 5-1/2 which wasn't the case, so no.

Vida
08-22-2010, 05:52 PM
bigger, stronger nadal would beat nadal on clay.

Start da Game
08-22-2010, 06:07 PM
there will never be an answer to nadal on clay.......never.......he just has to get old and let his pitiful competitors win something on the surface finally.......

on grass, it has to be a very big server and excellent finisher at the net......you just cannot comepete with this guy from the baseline on grass.......he is a budding grass monster too........

on hardcourts, a heavy hitter who has power off both wings.......big serving is a prerequisite here too or you are letting him into the match.......

one thing finally - if ever there happens to be bad matchups for nadal, you will never see any nadal fans puking matchup excuses if he loses.......at the end of the day, you just have to beat your opponent no matter what style he plays with.......

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 06:11 PM
So Nadal should have been leading 6-0 5-1/2 which wasn't the case, so no.

Like I said, the match was what it was. Rafa was controlling the second set, had several match points, blew them, was mentally weak and then physically tired because of the pressure brought from Davydenko. It's not even necessarily about the scoreline, but the tenor of the match. It was Rafa's match to lose and that he did.

Sillyrabbit
08-22-2010, 06:19 PM
"Wipe the floor with Nadal on clay" :lol: Do some people try to be retarded on purpose just to get a reaction from other posters?

Matt01
08-22-2010, 06:34 PM
Peak Murray beats Nadal on clay? Now I've heard it all :lol:

:o

born_on_clay
08-22-2010, 06:43 PM
Rafa has negative H2H only against 9 players out of 177 he has played against (Davydenko, Cilic, Mahut, Hrbaty, Guccione, Johansson J., Mutis, Srichaphan, Corretja)

del Potro is the biggest Rafa's threat :scared:
tall ballbasher takieng balls early and not letting Rafa to dominate rallies

finn98
08-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Show me where in their H2H it shows that peak-Nadal can "wipe d floor with Davy."

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ewck8j.jpg

Yes, Nadal has beaten Nikolay in straight sets twice on clay, but Nikolay has beaten Nadal in straight sets three times on hardcourts.

"Yes.I was referring to Peak Nadal versus Davy ..not 2009 late season clueless Rafa...Before Davy had just 1 win Miami 08... :wavey:

careergrandslam
08-22-2010, 07:02 PM
nadal will lose in the 1st week.
u heard it here first.

c u in monte carlo next year rafa.

Hurley
08-22-2010, 07:06 PM
Not that I ever want to defend the whiny fetus, but:

Peak Murray and peak Del Potro would both wipe the floor with Nadal on clay, and give him a lot of problems on clay.

That first "clay" was clearly a typo, because he wouldn't have said it twice in two different contexts. He probably meant "hard."

The whiny fetus deserves most of the shit he gets, but, please, people, make it through a goddamn sentence before jumping down others' throats.

finn98
08-22-2010, 07:06 PM
What's with this finn98 guy and writing "d" instead of "the"??? :retard:

Peak Murray and peak Del Potro would both wipe the floor with Nadal on clay, and give him a lot of problems on clay. On grass, peak Murray would easily:retard: beat him, while Del Potro would still have a tough time, since his movement isn't very good on grass.

U sir have got to posses the Record for maximum usage of retard emoticon . this one :retard:
Dont overuse it too much to the extent that ppl might think :retard::retard: = 25 to Life

Oh damn..I used "the" instead of "d". :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Matt01
08-22-2010, 07:07 PM
The whiny fetus deserves most of the shit he gets, but, please, people, make it through a goddamn sentence before jumping down others' throats.


But calling him whiny fetus is still ok? :D

B787
08-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Nadull has found his Federer already. That tall guy who humiliated him last year at US Open. You know, the one that won that tournament though.
Murray on HC is not to lose to Nadull anytime soon.
He hasn't even beaten Djoko on HC yet, apart from Olympics.

Hurley
08-22-2010, 07:08 PM
But calling him whiny fetus is still ok? :D

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Have you BEEN to this message board?

But he's like 9 years old. These things happen at that age. :shrug:

Nole Rules
08-22-2010, 07:15 PM
That Djoker of the AO 08.;)

At his peak he definetly can beat rafa on clay and of course outclasses rafa on hardcourts.all his wins over rafa in striaght sets.what a player.:worship:

tyruk14
08-22-2010, 07:22 PM
Who is this "Peak Murray" everyone keeps talking about? Is he a junior?

Andi-M
08-22-2010, 07:30 PM
Juan Martin Del Murray.

Juan Martins serve, firepower on groundies, mixed with Murrays speed anticipation, finesse and shotmaking ability. Would defeat Nadal at RG.

finn98
08-22-2010, 07:36 PM
Who is this "Peak Murray" everyone keeps talking about? Is he a junior?

He is tbe Ultimate PusherGOD who can retrieve even overhead smashes and fire 100% first serves.. :worship:

paseo
08-22-2010, 07:39 PM
The devil wearing a RF t-shirt.

finn98
08-22-2010, 07:40 PM
Juan Martin Del Murray.

Juan Martins serve, firepower on groundies, mixed with Murrays speed anticipation, finesse and shotmaking ability. Would defeat Nadal at RG.

Best reply in this thread. In other words there is only an imaginable worse match up for Nadal no real one :cool:

Sophocles
08-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Best reply in this thread. In other words there is only an imaginable worse match up for Nadal no real one :cool:

No, the OP asked about worst imaginable match-ups. By definition there is only one worst imaginable match-up. That tells us nothing about how many real bad match-ups there are.

alter ego
08-22-2010, 07:55 PM
We can call it what it was, or make excuses on the poor form of the opponent, but the fact is Rafa was completely outplaying Davydenko for about 1.9 sets. That's just a fact, which shows Rafa can defeat Nikolay, if he plays well throughout a match.

Utter crap!
Kolya was surprissed when he saw how aggresive Nadal was in the first set. And didn't react well (also made some bad errors).
But in the 2nd and 3rd set he changed his tactic completly and came to the net 15-16 times winning about 90% of the points. I never saw a player reacting so well to a bagle. We was truly in hot form back then.

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 08:04 PM
Utter crap!
Kolya was surprissed when he saw how aggresive Nadal was in the first set. And didn't react well (also made some bad errors).
But in the 2nd and 3rd set he changed his tactic completly and came to the net 15-16 times winning about 90% of the points. I never saw a player reacting so well to a bagle. We was truly in hot form back then.

Perfectly put.

I do wonder if flyboy even saw that match.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 08:28 PM
I saw the match.

Rafa outplayed Davydenko for the better part of two complete sets. Rafa was very aggressive, and he was frustrating Davydenko with his depth, and movement, and serving wonderfully. It's that simple. Davydenko did great to turn the match around by stepping it up two gears with his aggression. But does that change the fact Rafa was in control of the match? No, it doesn't. Sorry, haters. But that match showed that Rafa certainly does have what it takes to defeat Davydenko if he plays to the standard he was through the majority of those first two sets.

Mechlan
08-22-2010, 08:39 PM
I saw the match.

Rafa outplayed Davydenko for the better part of two complete sets. Rafa was very aggressive, and he was frustrating Davydenko with his depth, and movement, and serving wonderfully. It's that simple. Davydenko did great to turn the match around by stepping it up two gears with his aggression. But does that change the fact Rafa was in control of the match? No, it doesn't. Sorry, haters. But that match showed that Rafa certainly does have what it takes to defeat Davydenko if he plays to the standard he was through the majority of those first two sets.

I agree with this assessment. From what I remember of the match, Rafa red-lined the first set and completely outplayed Davydenko. Davydenko stepped it up in the second, but Rafa still should have put the match away and didn't. Davydenko was stronger mentally at the end and took it.

Obviously they're both capable of beating each other. It's usually Rafa that's mentally stronger and plays the big points better. This match was a surprising exception.

MalwareDie
08-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Nalbandian with a better serve, forehand, and fitness.

emotion
08-22-2010, 08:52 PM
A tall Davydenko

alter ego
08-22-2010, 08:54 PM
I saw the match.

Rafa outplayed Davydenko for the better part of two complete sets. Rafa was very aggressive, and he was frustrating Davydenko with his depth, and movement, and serving wonderfully. It's that simple. Davydenko did great to turn the match around by stepping it up two gears with his aggression. But does that change the fact Rafa was in control of the match? No, it doesn't. Sorry, haters. But that match showed that Rafa certainly does have what it takes to defeat Davydenko if he plays to the standard he was through the majority of those first two sets.

Then you have a very bad memory. Kolya was 5-3 up in the 2nd set. He choke 3 set points and gave Nadal the break back with a DF.

HKz
08-22-2010, 08:55 PM
Best reply in this thread. In other words there is only an imaginable worse match up for Nadal no real one :cool:

Strange, then why does he only have 8 slams? Why not all?

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 09:00 PM
Then you have a very bad memory. Kolya was 5-3 up in the 2nd set. He choke 3 set points and gave Nadal the break back with a DF.
He didn't choke. The DF, maybe. But Rafa played a tough game to get the break back, after Davy started really playing well and Rafa was spraying some balls and playing less aggressively. Rafa had chances early in the 2nd set to take further control, and had match points.

Fact is, Rafa showed in that match what he can do and what he needs to do to beat Davydenko on hard, so it isn't some impossibility.

HKz
08-22-2010, 09:00 PM
there will never be an answer to nadal on clay.......never.......he just has to get old and let his pitiful competitors win something on the surface finally.......

on grass, it has to be a very big server and excellent finisher at the net......you just cannot comepete with this guy from the baseline on grass.......he is a budding grass monster too........

on hardcourts, a heavy hitter who has power off both wings.......big serving is a prerequisite here too or you are letting him into the match.......

one thing finally - if ever there happens to be bad matchups for nadal, you will never see any nadal fans puking matchup excuses if he loses.......at the end of the day, you just have to beat your opponent no matter what style he plays with.......

Keep talking trash about everyone except Nadal. You're just making your girlfriend Nadal look worse every time.

alter ego
08-22-2010, 09:09 PM
He didn't choke. The DF, maybe. But Rafa played a tough game to get the break back, after Davy started really playing well and Rafa was spraying some balls and playing less aggressively. Rafa had chances early in the 2nd set to take further control, and had match points.

Fact is, Rafa showed in that match what he can do and what he needs to do to beat Davydenko on hard, so it isn't some impossibility.

I have that match on my hard disk. Do you want me to upload it on youtube ? Davy choke then. He hit 2 cheap UEs when having set points. Missed a simple passing shot at deuce. And double faulted to give the break back. That set should have never reached a tiebreak.

Well of course it's not impossible for him to beat Davy on hard. It's not like Kolya has won 10 hard court slams. But the russian does have the upper hand.
He has the perfect game to beat Nadal. He's agressive all the time and he's not affraid anymore to come to the net.And those drop volleys really do the charm. Look at Tsonga's match against Nadal in AO 08

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 09:19 PM
I have that match on my hard disk. Do you want me to upload it on youtube ? Davy choke then. He hit 2 cheap UEs when having set points. Missed a simple passing shot at deuce. And double faulted to give the break back. That set should have never reached a tiebreak.

Well of course it's not impossible for him to beat Davy on hard. It's not like Kolya has won 10 hard court slams. But the russian does have the upper hand.
He has the perfect game to beat Nadal. He's agressive all the time and he's not affraid anymore to come to the net.
Haha. you said he had the perfect gay to beat Nadal :eek::crazy::aplot::lol:

Seriously, though, Davydenko had a 5-3 40-15 lead, I remember this. Then they played two pretty tough points, which ended in errors. Davydenko hit an volley at the net which Nadal got to pretty easily, and then Davydenko missed a tough passing shot with Rafa there at the net. The DF I agree was a choke, but the game was a tough one. Rafa played a bad game to get broken but was the player in control up to that point, and after that point where he broke back he had chances to win the match.

Does Kolya have the upper hand? He has the better game on hard courts and the game to beat Rafa on the surface, I agree. But in a best of 5 match on an ever quicker surface than Doha which means less time to accurately time his shots? I don't know about that. Also, his serve isn't great, and he isn't great when he's not in offensive positions. But you agree that he isn't an impossible task for Nadal, which was the only point I was trying to make.

casabe
08-22-2010, 09:28 PM
whatta picture !
Nadal playing Nadal !
Wall against wall !
Nice idea !

pff virtua tennis 2009 can do that

alter ego
08-22-2010, 09:33 PM
Haha. you said he had the perfect gay to beat Nadal :eek::crazy::aplot::lol:


It's 12:32 am for me. So I'm :zzz:
I was trying to remember were I saw you posting before. Then I remember reading your posts on the gay marriage debate. And I guess my subconscious did the rest. :lol:

Does Kolya have the upper hand? He has the better game on hard courts and the game to beat Rafa on the surface, I agree. But in a best of 5 match on an ever quicker surface than Doha which means less time to accurately time his shots? I don't know about that. Also, his serve isn't great, and he isn't great when he's not in offensive positions. But you agree that he isn't an impossible task for Nadal, which was the only point I was trying to make.

Hope we shall see a best of 5 match between them at the USO. And I don't agree with you about Doha and USO. The faster the surface the better chance for Davy to win against Nadal. Because Kolya likes to play ping pong tennis and Nadal's best asset is his defence which of course doesn't work so well on very fast hard. Thus he has yet to reach a final in Cincinnati or New York.

Sapeod
08-22-2010, 09:44 PM
:rolls: Stop dreaming!
I meant to type hard, not clay.
HELL no. There is NO WAY IN HELL they would wipe the floor with Rafa on clay. Murray is not even REMOTELY on the level of Nadal on clay or grass. Murray had his chance to beat him at Wimbledon and failed. Del Potro doesn't move well enough and plays too many balls down the middle, where on clay Rafa can just use the forehand to move JMDP around and expose his mobility. Also his power is blunted on the surface.
I meant to type hard, not clay.
"Wipe the floor with Nadal on clay" :lol: Do some people try to be retarded on purpose just to get a reaction from other posters?
I meant to type hard, not clay.
Peak Murray beats Nadal on clay? Now I've heard it all :lol:

:o
I meant to type hard, not clay.
That first "clay" was clearly a typo, because he wouldn't have said it twice in two different contexts. He probably meant "hard."
Correct.

The whiny fetus
Whiny fetus?
I must say, sir, that's the best name anyone has ever called me.
Bravo :bigclap:
U sir have got to posses the Record for maximum usage of retard emoticon . this one :retard:
Dont overuse it too much to the extent that ppl might think :retard::retard: = 25 to Life
It's only an emoticon, don't get too wound up about it :awww:
Oh and how would me using :retard: all the time make me a :retard:
Wonderful logic, :retard:98 :worship:
But calling him whiny fetus is still ok? :D
Insulting me by making references to my age is not very original, and is quite sad, but I couldn't care less :shrug:
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Have you BEEN to this message board?

But he's like 9 years old. These things happen at that age. :shrug:
I'm 15 years old. You were only 6 years off, so that's not too bad. Can't really expect much more of you, maybe next time you can get closer to my actual age :yeah:

Matt01
08-22-2010, 09:54 PM
I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.



Ok ;)

Blackbriar
08-22-2010, 10:03 PM
A guy with the touch of Gasquet and the fighting spirit of Hewitt.

Persimmon
08-22-2010, 10:22 PM
Del Potro/Nalbandian.

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 10:22 PM
A guy with the touch of Gasquet and the fighting spirit of Hewitt.

BS

You don't need touch against Nadal, you need power and concistency.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 10:36 PM
Hope we shall see a best of 5 match between them at the USO. And I don't agree with you about Doha and USO. The faster the surface the better chance for Davy to win against Nadal. Because Kolya likes to play ping pong tennis and Nadal's best asset is his defence which of course doesn't work so well on very fast hard. Thus he has yet to reach a final in Cincinnati or New York.
I personally don't think Nadal's best attribute is his defense. He's not that amazing defensively on hard courts. And now he doesn't try going for every ball defensively on the surface to protect his knees. That's part of the reason he's gotten more aggressive. I think his best attribute(s) is his ability to control points with his serve/return+forehand combination, and his consistency. His issue is that on the fast hard courts, his balls don't have the life on them and are easier to attack, but certainly not easy. Which is where Davydenko would have issues. The court is fast, and skids, and on those types of courts, Davydenko will have timing issues, because he takes it so early he will mishit more, and he also is vulnerable to getting overpowered like he did in set 1 in Doha with Rafa, although he hits the ball with great timing and very clean, he doesn't have a lot of natural power. So I think actually a medium speed court would be best for Davydenko with Rafa, and fast courts like those in NYC actually are detrimental to his game.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 10:38 PM
I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.

I meant to type hard, not clay.

OK, cool, cool. :wavey:

Although, wipe the floor? I'm not sure about that. Would JMDP and Murray win maybe 7/10, 8/10 times? Yes. But consistent annihilation I don't see.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 10:40 PM
People think it's all about power, and that is one factor, but players with consistency, SPEED, ability to hit with depth and defense to offense ability are the ones who REALLY give Rafa trouble also.

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 10:45 PM
People think it's all about power, and that is one factor, but players with consistency, SPEED, ability to hit with depth and defense to offense ability are the ones who REALLY give Rafa trouble also.

Yeah but at the end of the day they always end up on the loser's side because they lack mental fortitude and fitness compared to Nadal. Key against him is and always will be to finish points quickly.

Filo V.
08-22-2010, 11:03 PM
Yeah but at the end of the day they always end up on the loser's side because they lack mental fortitude and fitness compared to Nadal. Key against him is and always will be to finish points quickly.

That's true for everyone outside of Murray. Andy can play the rallies and has the confidence, mental and physical strength to outlast Rafa. He's also faster than Rafa is on hard court. That's why, to me, he's the worst imaginable match-up. For other players, they do have to play first strike tennis because they have something in their games that is too big of a weakness that Rafa can exploit if they do not use that strategy. But it's really risky, and most end up losing anyway because they cannot play that type of tennis for a best-of-5. Del Potro really didn't play first-strike tennis last year in New York. He played the ball deep down the middle, or deep to the backhand, and then got short balls which he attacked. A lot of players look at ball-bashers to defeat Rafa but I don't see that happening. It's players with not just power and the ability to finish points quickly, but with good tactics who are the biggest thorn in Nadal's side.

Clay Death
08-22-2010, 11:09 PM
lets just say that the clay warrior is a bit more vulnerable in the best of 3 sets foremat on quicker hard courts.

this is a function of basically just one thing: his return of serve. its a huge liability for him.

not having a great return of serve puts too much pressure on his own weak serve. it also allows them to swing for fences on nadal`s serve since they know they are holding so easily.

**that being said, it is still a relatively difficult proposition to derail the clay warrior in a best of 5 sets foremat on any surface. he has the record to prove it.

BodyServe
08-22-2010, 11:15 PM
That's true for everyone outside of Murray. Andy can play the rallies and has the confidence, mental and physical strength to outlast Rafa. He's also faster than Rafa is on hard court. That's why, to me, he's the worst imaginable match-up. For other players, they do have to play first strike tennis because they have something in their games that is too big of a weakness that Rafa can exploit if they do not use that strategy. But it's really risky, and most end up losing anyway because they cannot play that type of tennis for a best-of-5. Del Potro really didn't play first-strike tennis last year in New York. He played the ball deep down the middle, or deep to the backhand, and then got short balls which he attacked. A lot of players look at ball-bashers to defeat Rafa but I don't see that happening. It's players with not just power and the ability to finish points quickly, but with good tactics who are the biggest thorn in Nadal's side.

Yeah right you need some defensive skills to put him on the backfoot and then wait for short ball and attacks it (Murray).

But i still think a very big server that can string 4 good shots in a return game is the ideal solution.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
08-22-2010, 11:48 PM
Rafa red-lined the first set and completely outplayed Davydenko.

the VTEC kicked in yo

anyway, this thread has a simple answer
, del potro is a very bad match up for rafa

on any surface

he bats away spin like a joke, his groundies are scary good, his serve is getting better, already solid, he moves great aswell

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
08-22-2010, 11:50 PM
**that being said, it is still a relatively difficult proposition to derail the clay warrior in a best of 5 sets foremat on any surface. he has the record to prove it.

really? because murray, joker roddick del potro all have better records at the us open

Serenidad
08-23-2010, 12:22 AM
Daniel Brands.:armed:

Very true. Brands is a bad matchup for anyone.

Peak Murray beats Nadal on clay? Now I've heard it all :lol:

:o

I wish 25 to Life would stop embarrassing Murray fans, but he will follow in ORGASMATRON's footsteps sooner or later.

Blackbriar
08-23-2010, 08:46 AM
a 18-year old "Rafa" would be a bad matchup too, a guy with the same capabilities but has nothing to lose.

HKz
08-23-2010, 08:56 AM
a 18-year old "Rafa" would be a bad matchup too, a guy with the same capabilities but has nothing to lose.

If you watched tennis, "young Rafael" was a better HC player than clay courter ironically.

finn98
08-23-2010, 09:16 AM
If you watched tennis, "young Rafael" was a better HC player than clay courter ironically.

THIS.
2005 Nadal was effective on HCs because he used to make so few unforced errors also his movements were supreme. I feel all those knee injuries are finally taking their toll and hence we see Nadal reaching at balls slowly ultimately messing up his timing.
Anyone remember his AO 04 Match Vs Hewitt. ? He was painting lines at will especially with flat inside out FHs which he hardly uses now in a super agressive manner.
:sad:

peribsen
08-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Strange, then why does he only have 8 slams? Why not all?

Please explain the "only". Do you mean like in "only 12 guys have reached 8 or more slams in the whole history of tennis, pre-open era included"?

I'm afraid some people here are so obsessed with comparing Nadal to Federer, simply because they happen to play at the same age, that they risk losing the perspective of what Nadal's accomplishment will mean for the history of the sport.

straitup
08-23-2010, 01:33 PM
If you watched tennis, "young Rafael" was a better HC player than clay courter ironically.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. He was great on HC and looked good, but he's always done better on clay. He was maybe a little raw back in 2005 but he did indeed win 2 Clay MS tournaments...

peribsen
08-23-2010, 01:59 PM
He was maybe a little raw back in 2005 but he did indeed win 2 Clay MS tournaments...

Together with his first RG, plus Barcelona and Acapulco and a bunch of minor clay tournaments (Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Bastad).