Nadal must win Cincy to have a chance at the USO [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal must win Cincy to have a chance at the USO

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 05:26 PM
Nadal has never passed the semis at Cincy, just as the USO. I dont think its a coincidence cos its similar conditions to the USO and he has lost to Djokovic in the last two years. Murray has beaten Roger in the Toronto final, which makes him more of a favorite since hes never beaten Roger in any final. At least he is showing us something new.

I feel like Nadal must do something similar here. He must show he can beat Roger in the semis here and then go on to win the tournament. If he loses in the final it would be just more confirmation that he is not comfortable on the hard courts. I think people tend to undermine the importance of these run-up events to easily, especially for the guys who has never won the USO, let alone make the final.

Agree or disagree?

Ben.
08-18-2010, 05:33 PM
I think it would help if he had a win over one or two of the top guys here this week, it certainly couldn't hurt. He doesn't need to win though, Rafa has 8 slams, two this year, he doesn't need the confidence but a good showing here might help lessen the belief of some opponents at USO. He needs to find some form first though, or he isn't winning anything.

djb84xi
08-18-2010, 05:35 PM
I think even if he doesn't admit it, yes he needs a big result here to validate his chances of winning at the Open in a couple of weeks. Even if the big result doesn't happen, I still think anything's possible. Yes, Murray may look like a favorite right now after winning Toronto, but he might go into the US Open and completely blow his chance, like he's done so many other times at other slams too, so keep that in mind.

But back to Rafa, yes, I think Cincy is important for him and I expect him to learn from the mistakes he made last week in Toronto, and play much more aggressive and smarter this week.

dombrfc
08-18-2010, 05:38 PM
It would help for sure, but its by no means a law.

gulzhan
08-18-2010, 05:40 PM
I feel like Nadal must do something similar here. He must show he can beat Roger...

:haha:

I am fine if Rafa tanks his 1/4 match. On the other hand, I am not sure Roger will not tank his 1/4 match if Rafa plays first and wins.

In any case Cinci match means little for USO chances.

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 05:44 PM
:haha:
.

has he ever beaten roger at cincy or the USO? :rolleyes:

Ben.
08-18-2010, 05:48 PM
has he ever beaten roger at cincy or the USO? :rolleyes:

They've never played at either...

asmazif
08-18-2010, 05:49 PM
has he ever beaten roger at cincy or the USO? :rolleyes:

have they ever played at cincy or the USO?

rafa_maniac
08-18-2010, 05:49 PM
It's obviously not "necessary", but it would be a huge mental boost to win the big lead in event with the closest conditions to the US Open and beat a couple of big name players along the way. He's a different beast over 5 sets though.

Fiberlight1
08-18-2010, 05:50 PM
has he ever beaten roger at cincy or the USO? :rolleyes:

Roger will shit the bed, just like he has every other time he sees Rafa across the net.

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 05:52 PM
They've never played at either...

have they ever played at cincy or the USO?

how is that relevant? roger has won cincy 3 times and the USO 5 times. nadal has never been past the semis of either!

born_on_clay
08-18-2010, 05:52 PM
Grand Slams are different story my dear ;)

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 05:55 PM
Roger will shit the bed, just like he has every other time he sees Rafa across the net.

nadal is no match for federer on fast hard. you cant even begin to compare the two. ever.

Ben.
08-18-2010, 06:02 PM
how is that relevant? roger has won cincy 3 times and the USO 5 times. nadal has never been past the semis of either!

Well I would say it is quite relevant as it is impossible to beat someone if you don't play them.

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 06:18 PM
Well I would say it is quite relevant as it is impossible to beat someone if you don't play them.

but you dont know who will win do you? in fact federer should be the favorite since they are equal in h2h on hard but fed has a far superior record than nadal on fast hard.

Arkulari
08-18-2010, 06:20 PM
It would help for sure, but its by no means a law.

this

Matt01
08-18-2010, 06:20 PM
Disagree of course. It'a a BS theory.


have they ever played at cincy or the USO?


:lol:

Fiberlight1
08-18-2010, 06:26 PM
He beat Federer on what many ATPers call the fastest court on the circuit, Dubai.

Ben.
08-18-2010, 06:30 PM
but you dont know who will win do you? in fact federer should be the favorite since they are equal in h2h on hard but fed has a far superior record than nadal on fast hard.

No ofcourse not. I don't think either would be a big favourite either way. It would certainly be no foregone conclusion.

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 06:35 PM
No ofcourse not. I don't think either would be a big favourite either way. It would certainly be no foregone conclusion.

but the whole point is that nadal has something to prove, not roger.

BlueSwan
08-18-2010, 06:35 PM
If he wins Cincy he also wins The US Open. I'm almost positive of this. Nadal is a confidence player.

If he doesn't win Cincy, he's still top favourite along with Murray for the US Open, IMO. There's a huge difference between taking Nadal out in best of three and best of five.

Ben.
08-18-2010, 06:43 PM
but the whole point is that nadal has something to prove, not roger.

Yeh Rafa has something to prove in New York, to an extent anyway. Fed has six straight finals so he has nothing to prove, though it doesn't make him the the frontrunner, only one of them.

FormerRafaFan
08-18-2010, 06:45 PM
Two different tournaments, with possible two different outcomes. He can lose here and still win USO, or he can win here and lose USO. It's stupid to say he MUST win here in order to win USO.

I think a better point is to just see HOW he plays here overall, to get a feel of how he copes with the HC surface after his mini break where he got treatment on his injury.

ossie
08-18-2010, 06:46 PM
not true, this and your thread about fed winning usopen are more of an indication of what you hope will happen. the reality is that rafa has a good chance to win usopen and feds form has been in decline since ao

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 06:54 PM
Yeh Rafa has something to prove in New York, to an extent anyway. Fed has six straight finals so he has nothing to prove, though it doesn't make him the the frontrunner, only one of them.

it makes him more of a frontrunner than nadal and murray.

peribsen
08-18-2010, 08:49 PM
Out of the 21 years since 1990:

- 2 players have won Canada, Cinci and USO on the same year (Rafter 98 and Roddick 03).
- 6 times the winner of Canada also took USO (the above + Agassi 94, Safin 00, Federer 04&06).
- 4 times the winner of Cincinnati won USO (Rafter, Roddick and Federer 05&07).

I understand what Orgasmatron says about Rafa needing to prove he can win in a fast HC (though he's made enough SF to prove he is a contender). But the data above prove winning any of the two HC summer MS1000 is a poor predictor of outcome at USO, and that is especially the case for Cinci.

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 09:06 PM
Out of the 21 years since 1990:

- 2 players have won Canada, Cinci and USO on the same year (Rafter 98 and Roddick 03).
- 6 times the winner of Canada also took USO (the above + Agassi 94, Safin 00, Federer 04&06).
- 4 times the winner of Cincinnati won USO (Rafter, Roddick and Federer 05&07).

I understand what Orgasmatron says about Rafa needing to prove he can win in a fast HC (though he's made enough SF to prove he is a contender). But the data above prove winning any of the two HC summer MS1000 is a poor predictor of outcome at USO, and that is especially the case for Cinci.

but it doesnt have to mean they won it in the same year, just as long as they won it. nadal has not been past the semis of either cincy and the USO.

peribsen
08-18-2010, 10:44 PM
but it doesnt have to mean they won it in the same year, just as long as they won it. nadal has not been past the semis of either cincy and the USO.

Fair enough.

The Magician
08-18-2010, 10:51 PM
Actually he has to win Cincy to have a chance at Cincy, since he has no chance at the USO. Nadal fans should treat a title here as a grand slam since that's the best you're going to get :wavey:

lazybear
08-18-2010, 10:59 PM
nadal is no match for federer on fast hard. you cant even begin to compare the two. ever.

Everybody who knows even a little tennis, knows that Roger is a superior hard-court player, and i guess most tennis fans would even agree that he would win more times than not against Nadal on a fast hardcourt. However, you know how Roger these days... If we were talking about 2005, or 2006 Roger, playing even relatively well, he would annihilate any version of Nadal (even 2008 summer version) on a fast hardcourt, despite the horrible matchup. That's how good Roger on a fast hard court. Always though that's his best surface, and not grass. But unfortunately, even though his movement is back, his game is still not where it should be... Maybe it will all come together for the USO, just like in 2008, but that's not a given, one or two brainfart against Nadal, and we're going into a fifth set again...

ORGASMATRON
08-18-2010, 11:57 PM
Everybody who knows even a little tennis, knows that Roger is a superior hard-court player, and i guess most tennis fans would even agree that he would win more times than not against Nadal on a fast hardcourt. However, you know how Roger these days... If we were talking about 2005, or 2006 Roger, playing even relatively well, he would annihilate any version of Nadal (even 2008 summer version) on a fast hardcourt, despite the horrible matchup. That's how good Roger on a fast hard court. Always though that's his best surface, and not grass. But unfortunately, even though his movement is back, his game is still not where it should be... Maybe it will all come together for the USO, just like in 2008, but that's not a given, one or two brainfart against Nadal, and we're going into a fifth set again...

im optimistic. im gonna predict roger will defend cincy and win the USO. i think he is still improving at this point. he should be at his best soon, in which case no one will have a chance. same as AO this year.

christallh24
08-19-2010, 12:00 AM
how is that relevant? roger has won cincy 3 times and the USO 5 times. nadal has never been past the semis of either!

Then what is your point? He's never won either so how does he need one of the other to win one? He won Queens in the same year he won Wimbledon the first time. He won Wimbledon without winning Queens this year. All this proves nothing in the end, really. A player doesn't have to win one event in order to win another. Funny you should choose a tournament Rafa's never won for him to have a chance at the only major he's never won. I suppose if he won Cinci and not USO, he'd next have to win WTF to "prove" he can win the USO next year? It the same bullshit with you haters. Rafa has never achieved anything unless he's done it twice. If we're applying that sort of logic, I guess Roger's RG win means he didn't really complete a career slam.

nadal is no match for federer on fast hard. you cant even begin to compare the two. ever.

And yet...

but you dont know who will win do you? in fact federer should be the favorite since they are equal in h2h on hard but fed has a far superior record than nadal on fast hard.

Isn't that kind of what you just did? Roger is more superior here, Rafa on clay. The only thing that matters is their matchups with each other when ever they do play against the other.

but the whole point is that nadal has something to prove, not roger.

Yes, you are absolutely correct! Rafael does have something to prove. To some people. You know, I'm usually able to laugh you Fed church goers off, but I'd really like to know something? What more do you fed fans want, ffs?! You're fans of a player with records galore up the ass and nothing left to prove. But can you be happy with that?! No. You post more topics about Rafael and trying to devalue anything he's ever done or you think he's about to accomplish! Maybe I should consider it flattering for Rafa that his haters find it more entertaining to obsess over his every word and action than it is to talk about Roger Federer.

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 12:11 AM
Then what is your point? He's never won either so how does he need one of the other to win one? He won Queens in the same year he won Wimbledon the first time. He won Wimbledon without winning Queens this year. All this proves nothing in the end, really. A player doesn't have to win one event in order to win another. Funny you should choose a tournament Rafa's never won for him to have a chance at the only major he's never won. I suppose if he won Cinci and not USO, he'd next have to win WTF to "prove" he can win the USO next year? It the same bullshit with you haters. Rafa has never achieved anything unless he's done it twice. If we're applying that sort of logic, I guess Roger's RG win means he didn't really complete a career slam.



And yet...



Isn't that kind of what you just did? Roger is more superior here, Rafa on clay. The only thing that matters is their matchups with each other when ever they do play against the other.



Yes, you are absolutely correct! Rafael does have something to prove. To some people. You know, I'm usually able to laugh you Fed church goers off, but I'd really like to know something? What more do you fed fans want, ffs?! You're fans of a player with records galore up the ass and nothing left to prove. But can you be happy with that?! No. You post more topics about Rafael and trying to devalue anything he's ever done or you think he's about to accomplish! Maybe I should consider it flattering for Rafa that his haters find it more entertaining to obsess over his every word and action than it is to talk about Roger Federer.

i dont hate nadal, i like him. i just dont want him to win the USO for obvious reasons.

federer was in the FO final 3 years before he won it.

federer is better on hard if you look at his credentials.

again, i dont hate nadal at all. but lets face it, he got slaughtered by delpo last year. i dunno if he deserves the USO.

moon language
08-19-2010, 12:21 AM
To the contrary he'd do better to get a couple matches in and then move on.

moon language
08-19-2010, 12:22 AM
i dont hate nadal, i like him. i just dont want him to win the USO for obvious reasons.

federer was in the FO final 3 years before he won it.

federer is better on hard if you look at his credentials.

again, i dont hate nadal at all. but lets face it, he got slaughtered by delpo last year. i dunno if he deserves the USO.

Federer was slaughtered a couple times at Roland Garros.

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 12:23 AM
oh yeah i didnt even take his knees into account. that is one more reason he may not win it.

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 12:24 AM
Federer was slaughtered a couple times at Roland Garros.

a couple? he was slaughtered once when he had mono by the greatest clay court player of all time.

moon language
08-19-2010, 12:27 AM
a couple? he was slaughtered once when he had mono by the greatest clay court player of all time.

Oh the mono thing again, ok. Maybe Kuerten gave it to him when he schooled him there?

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 12:29 AM
Oh the mono thing again, ok. Maybe Kuerten gave it to him when he schooled him there?

that was before he learned to play on clay. nadal will never be the player on fast hard that fed is on clay, unless he makes 3 USO finals and win it once, and that aint happening.

moon language
08-19-2010, 12:33 AM
that was before he learned to play on clay. nadal will never be the player on fast hard that fed is on clay, unless he makes 3 USO finals and win it once, and that aint happening.

No it wasn't. Federer had beaten Kuerten handily prior to that and had already won Hamburg twice.

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 12:45 AM
No it wasn't. Federer had beaten Kuerten handily prior to that and had already won Hamburg twice.

he was still learning to play at RG. do i have to spell everything out? geez.

christallh24
08-19-2010, 12:51 AM
i dont hate nadal, i like him. i just dont want him to win the USO for obvious reasons.

I don't buy your "like" of Rafa, but fine, you don't don't want him to win. While, no it's not always obvious, there are Fedals out there, you're a Federer fan that don't want to see Rafa win. Fine. Leave at that.

federer was in the FO final 3 years before he won it.

And wouldn't you had rather it had been a win over over the player he's never beaten there, instead of Soderling? Like us Rafa fans can point out?

federer is better on hard if you look at his credentials.

Who is really disputing this? It's like saying Rafael is the best claycourter in the last generation. :shrug:

again, i dont hate nadal at all. but lets face it, he got slaughtered by delpo last year. i dunno if he deserves the USO.

Okay. Fair enough. Rafa has "slaughtered" a few in his time. He has "slaughtered" and has been "slaughtered". Has been and will again. Has that forever stopped he from winning?

Going somewhat off topic, I wonder if you and Magician are capable are going a day or two without one post mentioning or alluding too Rafa. I'd bet not.

Matt01
08-19-2010, 11:02 AM
a couple? he was slaughtered once when he had mono by the greatest clay court player of all time.


:haha:


Actually he has to win Cincy to have a chance at Cincy, since he has no chance at the USO. Nadal fans should treat a title here as a grand slam since that's the best you're going to get :wavey:


Sad hater :wavey:

sabina_RF_lee
08-19-2010, 11:13 AM
Roger and Rafa never played against each other in Cincy and USO, thats why their h2h is 7-14, if they had played it would be 20-14

Matt01
08-19-2010, 11:36 AM
Roger and Rafa never played against each other in Cincy and USO, thats why their h2h is 7-14, if they had played it would be 20-14


Rafa has won all of their matches on decoturf as far as I know.

Il Primo Uomo
08-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Nope.

lazybear
08-19-2010, 12:57 PM
Rafa has won all of their matches on decoturf as far as I know.

Didn't they play their WTF matches on deco?

BodyServe
08-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Didn't they play their WTF matches on deco?

No, i believe it was a cross between carpet/hard.

Certinfy
08-19-2010, 01:19 PM
This thread. :haha:

Nolby
08-19-2010, 01:44 PM
hwhSt-26m2A

Persimmon
08-19-2010, 03:42 PM
Fed or Murray are winning USO anyway.

Blackbriar
08-22-2010, 10:01 PM
I would like to know the opinion of the original poster now that the tournament has ended.

Matt01
08-23-2010, 01:11 AM
I would like to know the opinion of the original poster now that the tournament has ended.


Well, the original poster isn't able to answer anymore :devil:

Mimi
08-23-2010, 03:11 AM
he has no hope to win us open, pathetic performances, double-faulted to get broken against baggy:rolleyes:. Thats why I always said those "rafa is sure to win us open etc thread" is pre-mature and unnecesary:rolleyes:

Persimmon
08-23-2010, 02:58 PM
he has no hope to win us open

This.

NJ88
08-23-2010, 03:08 PM
I doubt Nadal will be winning the US Open although you can't exactly rule him out either.