What is happening to Marin Cilic? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What is happening to Marin Cilic?

STE...fans
08-18-2010, 11:27 AM
The young Croat, after a brilliant start of the year, is lacking in good form and results. Do you have any suggestion on what might have happened to him? Can you suggest good articles, whatever the language, about his "crisis"?
Thanks

borracho
08-18-2010, 11:41 AM
bitch has to man the fuck up.

MacTheKnife
08-18-2010, 11:43 AM
I don't know but his ass has cost a bit of vcash.. This was the last time I put any on his butt.. :lol:

samanosuke
08-18-2010, 11:43 AM
About what crisis are you talking ? That is his peak , he can't better . Brilliant start of the year ????? He won Chennai and Zagreb by beating mugs and chokers . At AO played 5 setters against Tomic :haha: . Beat Del Potro also in 5 which hasn't played a match since that moment , he beat clearly injured Roddick also in 5 . Not really impressive . That is main problem with Cilic . Some people really think that he was playing great tennis and that he is capable for something big and than they are talking about somehow crisis . Even if he is in some crisis that crisis is permanent

ossie
08-18-2010, 12:38 PM
he never had it to begin with so i dont see the crisis here

tennizen
08-18-2010, 12:40 PM
I think it's his version of sophomore blues. I think he is a bit directionless at the moment. Probably needs a new coach and some completely different input. Still he is within top 15 so it's not that much of a worry yet.

Iván
08-18-2010, 01:04 PM
he needs to work on his footwork and court placement badly.

Blackbriar
08-18-2010, 01:17 PM
by beating mugs and chokers

I may be new here, but, can someone explain to me what do you mean by mugs and chokers?

Fedal2010
08-18-2010, 01:26 PM
About what crisis are you talking ? That is his peak , he can't better . Brilliant start of the year ????? He won Chennai and Zagreb by beating mugs and chokers . At AO played 5 setters against Tomic :haha: . Beat Del Potro also in 5 which hasn't played a match since that moment , he beat clearly injured Roddick also in 5 . Not really impressive . That is main problem with Cilic . Some people really think that he was playing great tennis and that he is capable for something big and than they are talking about somehow crisis . Even if he is in some crisis that crisis is permanent

You know same has been talked about Berdych after winning Paris in 2005, huge tlent blablabla but he didn´t show anything until 2010 when he´s already 25 y/o younger than Cilic, JMDP, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Gulbius... and then people still see him winning a major that´s ridiculous and Cilic is going to be trashed the whole year.. if Roddick was that bad injurd at the AO I doub´t he could have won a single set against Cilic.. Roddick is a faker samw with his mono lie.. Dude I´m not buying this crap of him that´s nothing but excuses..

-Evita-
08-18-2010, 01:29 PM
I may be new here, but, can someone explain to me what do you mean by mugs and chokers?

mug = a bad player

choker = a player with little mental strength who plays badly in tight situations

Blackbriar
08-18-2010, 01:37 PM
thanks :wavey:

Forehander
08-18-2010, 01:44 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:

tennizen
08-18-2010, 01:51 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:

Yeah, he might as well retire now. Shame on him for not considering it already. One would have thought that at the ripe age of 21 he would have had the wisdom and foresight.

syc23
08-18-2010, 03:02 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:

What? In the same way that you're bigging up Dimitrov with your fucking stupid signature...

Sauletekis
08-18-2010, 03:04 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:

Really funny post, but even funnier that came from a guy that loves Dimitrov...

Sauletekis
08-18-2010, 03:06 PM
Forget to add: Dimitrov = the most overrated player ever in MTF...:wavey:

Sapeod
08-18-2010, 03:07 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:
Like Grigor Dimitrov?

Sapeod
08-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Cilic didn't have top 10/5 potential to begin with.
One of the ugliest players to watch BY FAR.

Everko
08-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Others players know how tobeat him. It never fails to work

philosophicalarf
08-18-2010, 04:07 PM
Nothing happening to him, he's just stalled in the 10-15 rankings range. Aus Open was a freak, he only beat roddick and delpot cos of injury.

Plenty room still to improve, many elements of his game are still kinda junior-ish.

kindling
08-18-2010, 04:17 PM
I think he just lost his virginity this year.

tealeaves
08-18-2010, 04:41 PM
He is the most overrated player after USO 09

CCBH
08-18-2010, 05:59 PM
I think he is a very good player, but lacks that something extra that will take him further. Big forehand, but there are much bigger ones, and he can go way off on that side. Solid backhand, but much like del Potro/Soderling/Berdych. Moves well for a big guy, but movement can be exploited. Doesn't serve as big as he should, not much variety. You see him and think, ok, he's a complete package, but delPo, Soderling, Berdych seem like if they catch fire, they'll burn much more fiercely than Cilic.

He is entering the phase where he should start to become a consistent QF-SF presence, if he wants to make a push at the top.

HKz
08-18-2010, 06:01 PM
He is still young so you shouldn't worry too much. Of course I have always thought that Marin was missing a little something, especially since he doesn't come across as a huge hitter or anything like that, more like a decent all-court player.

allpro
08-18-2010, 10:07 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5064/giveafuckometer.gif

FormerRafaFan
08-18-2010, 10:09 PM
Good question. Wasn't Cilic one of the players with the most rising potential? He has just disappeared off the radar for the last few months..

Roddickominator
08-18-2010, 10:14 PM
Funny how a guy in the Top 15 that has beaten Murray, Nadal, Del Potro, and Roddick all on hardcourt in the last year is being called a bad player.

He's just a young guy who will have his ups and downs while developing his game....add that he is pretty bad on clay and grass and still has to regain some confidence, and his play of late is really no surprise.

Serenidad
08-18-2010, 10:25 PM
bitch has to man the fuck up.

He's a clown. He can never do this. Mugrin. :wavey:

Serenidad
08-18-2010, 10:25 PM
I think he just lost his virginity this year.

:bigcry:

Sapeod
08-19-2010, 01:08 AM
As I said, he can't get any better.
He's already hit his peak.

Guy Haines
08-19-2010, 01:30 AM
Funny how a guy in the Top 15 that has beaten Murray, Nadal, Del Potro, and Roddick all on hardcourt in the last year is being called a bad player.


Yeah, funny that. MTF never disappoints, and so we have a Murray fan saying he's peaked.

Marin's fans and dedicated haters would probably agree that mentality is his biggest problem. He is a terrible tiebreak player for someone of his rank, and is known to squander leads.

His current lack of form is something more though.

ORGASMATRON
08-19-2010, 01:33 AM
isnt it obvious? simon reed said he would win a slam this year...

STE...fans
08-19-2010, 07:21 AM
Does anybody know if he is still coached by Goran Ivanisevic?

STE...fans
08-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Does anybody know if he is still coached by Goran Ivanisevic?
Anyone?

samanosuke
08-19-2010, 12:34 PM
Goran has probably seen with how big mug has to deal with and decided rather to enjoy in life then loosing nerves with lost case

FiBeR
08-19-2010, 04:19 PM
Mistaflava voodoo him

oranges
08-19-2010, 05:47 PM
Anyone?

Goran occasionally works with him and sometimes travles with him too, but it was never supposed to be a permanent thing. Not sure when's the next time he'll be in Marin's box, but judging by statments from both, they'll continue to work togheter whenever opporutnity arises. Goran has senior tour to play, among other things.

dombrfc
08-19-2010, 05:50 PM
Funny how a guy in the Top 15 that has beaten Murray, Nadal, Del Potro, and Roddick all on hardcourt in the last year is being called a bad player.

He's just a young guy who will have his ups and downs while developing his game....add that he is pretty bad on clay and grass and still has to regain some confidence, and his play of late is really no surprise.

MTF :worship:

STE...fans
08-19-2010, 06:12 PM
Goran occasionally works with him and sometimes travles with him too, but it was never supposed to be a permanent thing. Not sure when's the next time he'll be in Marin's box, but judging by statments from both, they'll continue to work togheter whenever opporutnity arises. Goran has senior tour to play, among other things.
Hi oranges, thanks for your reply. Could you suggest some recent links, no matter the language, about the technical relationship between Goran and Marin? Thanks again

nevenez
08-19-2010, 06:23 PM
Quite overrated player

Jomp1
08-19-2010, 07:02 PM
All players hit slumps, especially young players with early success. Cilic got things to work on to improve further in the rankings but he has also played below his level for a while now. A mental midget right now.

daddy
08-26-2010, 09:50 PM
First few rounds don't look bad to gain back confidence


Albert Montanes vs. Michal Przysiezny
Carsten Ball vs. Qualifier
Qualifier vs. Evgeny Korolev
Illya Marchenko vs. Marin Cilic

FormerRafaFan
08-26-2010, 11:16 PM
I truly fail to understand this thread. Is something suppose to be happening to him? He's already at peak, this is the best he can do. Stop overrating him :lol:

LOL. I wanted to say +1 but I'm not sure.. I don't think he's completely over yet.

Funny reading your post though.

daddy
12-13-2010, 12:56 PM
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1395/bozicnikoncert1358677s0.jpg

philosophicalarf
12-13-2010, 01:09 PM
Marin certainly spends a lot of time chasing tail. Allegedly.

daddy
06-21-2011, 04:13 PM
Time for Marin to change his coach. There hasn't been any improvement in his game and other players learned how to play against him. Lack of focus and confidence is obvious. If he doesn't do something soon, I'm afraid he'll sink deeper.

LawrenceOfTennis
06-21-2011, 04:18 PM
Honestly, who cares?

Everko
06-30-2011, 05:21 PM
Honestly, who cares?

exactly. He's terrible for the game. It's better if he goes away into the 50-100 range.

tennismaster882001
06-30-2011, 07:41 PM
^^
You obviously care very much. :lol:

Marin just lacks fire inside him, there's no passion in his tennis.
It doesn't look like he enjoys it at the moment.

samanosuke
06-30-2011, 07:43 PM
If you want to know what exactly is happening with cilic send me a PM .don't want to risk another ban

Kiedis
06-30-2011, 08:51 PM
He is a hardcourt rat. I don't need say more. He will pick up his form soon, I guess

nalbyfan
07-01-2011, 12:22 PM
He is a hardcourt rat. I don't need say more. He will pick up his form soon, I guess

Unfortunately, he chose Hambourg on clay...instead of Wahsington where he has a semi to defend !!! Does he try to suicide ?

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Marin Cilic's fall from grace is inexplicable, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Back in late 2009 and early 2010, he was awesome. Very good serve, accurate powerful shots from both wings, decent touch at the net, and he looked like a player who could still progress a lot and contend for big titles/top ranking positions.

In the 2009 USO, he completely obliterated Murray, who was world no.2 back then (although just because Nadal had skipped Wimbledon) and went on to cause some trouble to Del Potro in the quarters - Delpo is a horrible matchup for Cilic and ended up winning the tournament. All in all, a great breakout tournament.

In the 2010 AO, he did even better, beating Roddick - who was very good back then - and Del Potro - who, even with a bad wrist, was still a death matchup for him. It's safe to say that if he had not had such a tough draw, needing to play 5 sets vs Roddick and Delpo, he would have had a great shot to make the final. He was crushing Murray yet again until he ran out of gas, and Murray eventually outgrinded him.

You'd have expected him to build on these great showings and keep improving, but no. After this, he completely disappeared. 2 years later, instead of progressing he has regressed. His serve isn't very effective, his groundstrokes are erratic - there are matches where he's like an unforced error machine - he's a shadow of the player he was two years ago. What happened? I know he's had some injury problems, but surely that can't explain everything, can it? He did show a glimpse at last year's US Open, but so far hasn't backed it up.

More importantly, what does the future hold for him. He's only 23, so extremely young and he does have the weapons to be a legitimate top player. I really see no reason why he shouldn't be in the top 10 at the very least. Should we expect a big move from him soon or do you think his great form back in 2009/2010 was just a flash in a pan? I want to believe it is not as he showed some real talent/ability to compete, making me expect great things.

J99
05-03-2012, 12:11 AM
Well he was just out for 4 months with a serious achilles injury, so don't expect his game to be top notch right away, his serve has never been good though.

Chase Visa
05-03-2012, 12:18 AM
I do wonder what happened after AO 2010. Just seemed like an average player after that.

Ibracadabra
05-03-2012, 12:19 AM
Injury and confidence.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 12:29 AM
Well he was just out for 4 months with a serious achilles injury, so don't expect his game to be top notch right away, his serve has never been good though.

Yes, I'm aware that he was injured just a while ago. But the thing is, he "disappeared" after AO 2010. One would expect him to keep improving and build on his great Slam performances, but he just disappeared. It's strange.

And his serve was pretty good. Not like his compatriots Goran and Ivo, but a good shot nonetheless. Better than for instance Del Potro's, a player of similar height and playing style. Now it sucks though.

I do wonder what happened after AO 2010. Just seemed like an average player after that.

Exactly my point. He looked so awesome in USO 2009 and AO 2010 and then he suddenly became average. Surely there must be some explanation... He looked set to be one of the leading players of his generation (and can still be, but doesn't look so promising at the moment).

J99
05-03-2012, 12:48 AM
Yes, I'm aware that he was injured just a while ago. But the thing is, he "disappeared" after AO 2010. One would expect him to keep improving and build on his great Slam performances, but he just disappeared. It's strange.

And his serve was pretty good. Not like his compatriots Goran and Ivo, but a good shot nonetheless. Better than for instance Del Potro's, a player of similar height and playing style. Now it sucks though.



Exactly my point. He looked so awesome in USO 2009 and AO 2010 and then he suddenly became average. Surely there must be some explanation... He looked set to be one of the leading players of his generation (and can still be, but doesn't look so promising at the moment).

Better than Delpo's, never.

Parera_Starr10
05-03-2012, 12:57 AM
Injury and confidence.

Pretty much. The guy has a lot of potential though, he played fed tough in last years Us Open. I'd like to see him do well again.

misty1
05-03-2012, 01:08 AM
it pretty much all started after an incident when he was practicing with a german youngster and the kid collapsed and got sent to the hospital. I think that affected him a bit and then he also got injured a couple times, the major time being this year which delayed the start of his season.

at times it looks like he's getting back to that level

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 01:35 AM
Better than Delpo's, never.


When Marin was at his best, it definitely was. He even outaced Roddick in their AO 2010 5-setter. His serve was really, really good.

it pretty much all started after an incident when he was practicing with a german youngster and the kid collapsed and got sent to the hospital. I think that affected him a bit and then he also got injured a couple times, the major time being this year which delayed the start of his season.

at times it looks like he's getting back to that level

Uh I had no idea about that incident. Any links?

I hope he gets back to his best level though, he definitely belongs at the top, not outside of the top 20.

Topspindoctor
05-03-2012, 01:46 AM
Nothing happened to him, he was always a mug, who won a couple of MM tournies and fluked a slam semi after barely beating Mugic and no-wrist Delpotro. He was never anything special, his technique sucks, his serve sucks and he's a clown.

misty1
05-03-2012, 02:00 AM
Nothing happened to him, he was always a mug, who won a couple of MM tournies and fluked a slam semi after barely beating Mugic and no-wrist Delpotro. He was never anything special, his technique sucks, his serve sucks and he's a clown.

step onto a court and play him

Topspindoctor
05-03-2012, 02:06 AM
step onto a court and play him

I am not a pro, while he is. His job is to prove himself to other elite pros and so far he hasn't done that.

CelesteBlanca
05-03-2012, 02:18 AM
I am not a pro, while he is. His job is to prove himself to other elite pros and so far he hasn't done that.

GS SF and highest No.9 ranking already proved him was one of elites.

He's only 23, guys younger than him are nowhere to compare with him, except Tomic and Raonic. He will back to he used to be at 2010AO and even better. Time will tell.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 02:26 AM
Nothing happened to him, he was always a mug, who won a couple of MM tournies and fluked a slam semi after barely beating Mugic and no-wrist Delpotro. He was never anything special, his technique sucks, his serve sucks and he's a clown.

This is a horrible sign for tennis if true. A clown/mug with horrible technique and serve was in the top 10 and reached a Slam semi? Even now, according to the rankings, there are only 23 players in the world better than this "clown".

Tennis must be the weakest pro sport in the world.

Topspindoctor
05-03-2012, 02:28 AM
This is a horrible sign for tennis if true. A clown/mug with horrible technique and serve was in the top 10 and reached a Slam semi? Even now, according to the rankings, there are only 23 players in the world better than this "clown".

Tennis must be the weakest pro sport in the world.

Worse things have happened like Fish, Almagro and Isner in top 10. All are horrendous players, even worse than Mugrin.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 02:35 AM
Worse things have happened like Fish, Almagro and Isner in top 10. All are horrendous players, even worse than Mugrin.

What does that say about the guys ranked below them? If you really believe that top 10 players are horrendous perhaps you would enjoy another sport more? You know, a sport where the top guys aren't mugs/clowns.

Not to mention those players aren't horrendous, especially Isner. How can a guy who has possibly the best serve in tennis history - combining 1st,2nd, %, clutch serving, etc... - be a horrendous player?!

J99
05-03-2012, 02:38 AM
What does that say about the guys ranked below them? If you really believe that top 10 players are horrendous perhaps you would enjoy another sport more? You know, a sport where the top guys aren't mugs/clowns.

Not to mention those players aren't horrendous, especially Isner. How can a guy who has possibly the best serve in tennis history - combining 1st,2nd, %, clutch serving, etc... - be a horrendous player?!

Sorry, but Raonic has him beat there.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 02:41 AM
Sorry, but Raonic has him beat there.

No, he doesn't. Not even close.

Raonic has a better first serve, but that's it.

Isner has much better first serve %, second serve and ability to come up with the goods when needed - clutch serving. Isner's % alone is freakish, it's amazing how a guy with such a big serve can regularly serve over 70% in big matches.

Isner has the best serve on tour and it's not even really close. A few guys have a better (or at least as good) first serve than him, but as far as serve overall is concerned, no one comes close.

Topspindoctor
05-03-2012, 02:44 AM
Isner's serve isn't better than Raonic's. His disguise is worse, he doesn't know what do with his serve at times. In fact it's way easier to read Isner's serve than Raonic's. The only possible thing that Isner has that's better when it comes to serving is the kick serve.

J99
05-03-2012, 02:45 AM
No, he doesn't. Not even close.

Raonic has a better first serve, but that's it.

Isner has much better first serve %, second serve and ability to come up with the goods when needed - clutch serving. Isner's % alone is freakish, it's amazing how a guy with such a big serve can regularly serve over 70% in big matches.

Isner has the best serve on tour and it's not even really close. A few guys have a better (or at least as good) first serve than him, but as far as serve overall is concerned, no one comes close.

Not really, he's very tall if you hadn't noticed, which helps alot.

Raonic has the best serve, seriously, if you think that Isner>Raonic and Cilic>Delpo on serve, then you don't know tennis.

J99
05-03-2012, 02:48 AM
Isner's serve isn't better than Raonic's. His disguise is worse, he doesn't know what do with his serve at times. In fact it's way easier to read Isner's serve than Raonic's. The only possible thing that Isner has that's better when it comes to serving is the kick serve.

This.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 02:49 AM
Not really, he's very tall if you hadn't noticed, which helps alot.

Raonic has the best serve, seriously, if you think that Isner>Raonic and Cilic>Delpo on serve, then you don't know tennis.

So. Karlovic and Ivanisevic were tall as well and their % was never like Isner's.

When he reached the Indian Wells final, he served at 73% vs Djokovic and 74% vs Federer, which is just incredible for a guy with a such a big serve.

Isner has by far the best serve on tour, Raonic isn't particularly close on that department. Quality of serve is different from quality of the first serve.

That said, Raonic is likely to be a better player than Isner once he matures, but that's because he has better/bigger weapons off the ground, not because he has a better serve.

Also, I'm glad to know elite tennis players know nothing about tennis. In the recent perfect player survey, every player chose Isner in the serve category.

Isner's serve isn't better than Raonic's. His disguise is worse, he doesn't know what do with his serve at times. In fact it's way easier to read Isner's serve than Raonic's. The only possible thing that Isner has that's better when it comes to serving is the kick serve.

Surprising comment for you, considering Isner took Nadal to 5 on clay basely because of his serve. Not only is it better than Raonic, it is MUCH better, than anyone else's on tour at the moment.

There are guys with better first serves, namely Raonic and Karlovic. But considering first serve quality, first serve %, quality of second serve, clutch serving... no one really comes close to Isner.

SheepleBuster
05-03-2012, 03:06 AM
He never impressed me. Another Ancic. Raonic is much more talented and has way more upside. Cilic? Stick a fork in him. He done

J99
05-03-2012, 03:18 AM
2012 serve stats

1st serve %: Isner 68%, Raonic 62%, del Potro 63%. Cilic 53%

1st serve PTS won %: Raonic 82%, Isner 76%. del Potro 76%, Cilic 72%

2nd serve PTS won %: Raonic 59%, Isner 55%. del Potro 55%, Cilic 46%

Need I say more, there you have it, now you have nothing more to say to defend your position, because it's just not true.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:25 AM
2012 serve stats

1st serve %: Isner 68%, Raonic 62%, del Potro 63%. Cilic 53%

1st serve PTS won %: Raonic 82%, Isner 76%. del Potro 76%, Cilic 72%

2nd serve PTS won %: Raonic 59%, Isner 55%. del Potro 55%, Cilic 46%

Need I say more, there you have it, now you have nothing mroe to say to defend your position, because it's just not true.

The area where Isner is better than Raonic is on the return.

Wait until Raonic goes deep in some Masters tournaments/Slams and his stats will normalize. Isner has faced top players more often this season... If at the end of the year after the Slams and Masters Raonic still has 93% of holds, you might have a point.

Every top player on tour has said Isner has the best serve when asked (part of that Perfect Player feature) a month ago.

It's not really close. The question is not whether Isner has the best serve on tour right now, that's pretty obvious he does. The question is whether his serve is the best in the history of the sport. It might very well be, all things considered. Andy Murray thinks it is, and I'm tempted to agree with him.

And yes, Delpo's serve is better than Cilic RIGHT NOW. What I said - but you don't seem to have read - was that Cilic's serve was better back when he was at his best in late 2009/early 2010.

J99
05-03-2012, 03:28 AM
Wait until Raonic goes deep in some Masters tournaments/Slams and his stats will normalize. Isner has faced top players more often this season... If at the end of the year after the Slams and Masters Raonic still has 93% of holds, you might have a point.

Every top player on tour has said Isner has the best serve when asked (part of that Perfect Player feature) a month ago.

It's not really close. The question is not whether Isner has the best serve on tour right now, that's pretty obvious he does. The question is whether his serve is the best in the history of the sport. It might very well be, all things considered. Andy Murray thinks it is, and I'm tempted to agree with him.

And yes, Delpo's serve is better than Cilic RIGHT NOW. What I said - but you don't seem to have read - was that Cilic's serve was better back when he was at his best in late 2009/early 2010.

That was before he played Milos, wonder what he thinks now.

J99
05-03-2012, 03:34 AM
Cilic in 09' when he was "much" better:

56% 1st, 75% PTS won, 54% 2nd PTS won.

His 1st serve back then was barely better than it is now, his 2nd he had more success on, not his 1st, which suggests his overall game, not his serve was better, he won 10% more serve games then.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:35 AM
That was before he played Milos, wonder what he thinks now.

He probably thinks Milos is the second best server on tour and has the best first serve at the moment, which would be a correct view.

Bar strange circumstances, Milos will be a considerably better player than Isner. He does everything better than Isner except serving. He has much bigger weapons off the ground, his forehand is excellent. He was annihilating Murray with his aggressive shots in Barcelona.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:37 AM
Cilic in 09' when he was "much" better:

56% 1st, 75% PTS won, 54% 2nd PTS won.

His 1st serve back then was barely better than it is now, his 2nd he had more success on, not his 1st, which suggests his overall game, not his serve was better, he won 10% more serve games then.

He got 20 aces vs Roddick and Del Potro in Australia 2010 (outaced them both) and used his serve to great effect against Murray in USO 2009, not being broken even once and forcing Murray to leave tons of short balls for him to crush.

When he had his great Slams runs, his serve was a weapon.

BauerAlmeida
05-03-2012, 03:38 AM
I am not a pro, while he is. His job is to prove himself to other elite pros and so far he hasn't done that.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I bet you were in the TOP 10 at what you're a "pro".

J99
05-03-2012, 03:42 AM
He probably thinks Milos is the second best server on tour and has the best first serve at the moment, which would be a correct view.

Bar strange circumstances, Milos will be a considerably better player than Isner. He does everything better than Isner except serving. He has much bigger weapons off the ground, his forehand is excellent. He was annihilating Murray with his aggressive shots in Barcelona.

Even though the numbers say that Raonic has more success than Isner returning, I think that Isner can and has been better, especially on clay where the ball flies right into his zone, the match vs. Fed was the perfect example of this.

J99
05-03-2012, 03:48 AM
He got 20 aces vs Roddick and Del Potro in Australia 2010 (outaced them both) and used his serve to great effect against Murray in USO 2009, not being broken even once and forcing Murray to leave tons of short balls for him to crush.

When he had his great Slams runs, his serve was a weapon.

The Delpo match doesn't count, he had a bum wrist, Roddick over his career has won just 20% of his return games.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:48 AM
Even though the numbers say that Raonic has more success than Isner returning, I think that Isner can and has been better, especially on clay where the ball flies right into his zone, the match vs. Fed was the perfect example of this.

Isner's return is abysmal overall, one of the worst in the top 100 statistically. Even recently in Houston, he failed to break opponents who are ranked outside of the top 100. Raonic is far more likely to break his opponent than Isner.

When Isner is "hot" he can break the top players, but other than that he needs to rely on tie breaks, his returns leaves a lot to be desired. Outside of serve, Milos is the better player, no doubt.

On clay, Isner might have a slight edge because of high bounce + time to set up his shots, but even then he's no threat without his serve.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:50 AM
The Delpo match doesn't count, he had a bum wrist, Roddick over his career has won just 20% of his return games.

So? It's not like he couldn't get to balls because of the bum wrist.He did extend the match to five sets and broke Cilic.

And Roddick usually outaces his opponents. Being outaced over five sets is the exception, not the rule, must mean Cilic was serving pretty well.

misty1
05-03-2012, 03:55 AM
I am not a pro, while he is. His job is to prove himself to other elite pros and so far he hasn't done that.

i'd say he has done some good things already and to say he never will again is a mistake

the players certainly have respect for him so i'd say he's proven himself to them.

and how did this thread turn into a discussion of isner/raonic?

J99
05-03-2012, 03:56 AM
Isner's return is abysmal overall, one of the worst in the top 100 statistically. Even recently in Houston, he failed to break opponents who are ranked outside of the top 100. Raonic is far more likely to break his opponent than Isner.

When Isner is "hot" he can break the top players, but other than that he needs to rely on tie breaks, his returns leaves a lot to be desired. Outside of serve, Milos is the better player, no doubt.

On clay, Isner might have a slight edge because of high bounce + time to set up his shots, but even then he's no threat without his serve.

What's amazing is that Isner has faced 126 BP's this season and saved 72% of them, Milos 83 saved 76%.

Milos has won 4% more serve games, so I'd still probably say he has the edge, but it's very close, I'll give you that.

Actually Isner's clay return stats are worse than his hard I just found.

J99
05-03-2012, 04:02 AM
So? It's not like he couldn't get to balls because of the bum wrist.He did extend the match to five sets and broke Cilic.

And Roddick usually outaces his opponents. Being outaced over five sets is the exception, not the rule, must mean Cilic was serving pretty well.

It's not that he couldn't get to them, it's that he couldn't hit them the way he wanted.

No, it just means that Cilic is good at returning Roddick's serve and Roddick is poor at returning.

BroTree123
05-03-2012, 04:03 AM
Who gives a shit?

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 04:04 AM
What's amazing is that Isner has faced 126 BP's this season and saved 72% of them, Milos 83 saved 76%.

Milos has won 4% more serve games, so I'd still probably say he has the edge, but it's very close, I'll give you that.

Actually Isner's clay return stats are worse than his hard I just found.

Wait until he starts having deep runs in big tournaments - Masters and Slams - his stats will then become normal. Isner managed to serve the likes of Federer and Djokovic off the court, but that obviously has a negative impact on his stats.

It's not really close; pretty much every pro asked said Isner has the best serve, no one even mentioned Raonic. Milos has a great serve, but Isner in a class of his own. His serve alone makes him a threat; even Federer, famed as the best returners of big serves, struggles to find answers against it.

Isner's return is abysmal everywhere. He must be one of the poorest returners ever to make it to the top 10, if not the poorest.

It's not that he couldn't get to them, it's that he couldn't hit them the way he wanted.

No, it just means that Cilic is good at returning Roddick's serve and Roddick is poor at returning.

He just needs to get to them to stop it from being an ace...

Forget Roddick if you want. He outaced all his opponents in his 2009 US Open run and 2010 AO run, all of them.

J99
05-03-2012, 04:24 AM
Wait until he starts having deep runs in big tournaments - Masters and Slams - his stats will then become normal. Isner managed to serve the likes of Federer and Djokovic off the court, but that obviously has a negative impact on his stats.

It's not really close; pretty much every pro asked said Isner has the best serve, no one even mentioned Raonic. Milos has a great serve, but Isner in a class of his own. His serve alone makes him a threat; even Federer, famed as the best returners of big serves, struggles to find answers against it.

Isner's return is abysmal everywhere. He must be one of the poorest returners ever to make it to the top 10, if not the poorest.



He just needs to get to them to stop it from being an ace...

Forget Roddick if you want. He outaced all his opponents in his 2009 US Open run and 2010 AO run, all of them.

Ok, so maybe del Po has alot of trouble with Cilic's serve, Cilic out aced him in their last ATP match 6-4.

Raonic has served quite well vs. Fed, Murray and Ferrer this season.

abraxas21
05-03-2012, 04:25 AM
once a mug, always a mug

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 04:29 AM
once a mug, always a mug

Except Marin was never a mug...

Pirata.
05-03-2012, 04:53 AM
Uh I had no idea about that incident. Any links?

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=166121

networthy
05-03-2012, 05:40 AM
I do wonder what happened after AO 2010. Just seemed like an average player after that.

Exactly my point. He looked so awesome in USO 2009 and AO 2010 and then he suddenly became average.


He's the 24th best tennis player in the world, out of 7 billion people. Since when is that "average"?

You people need a reality check :cuckoo:

networthy
05-03-2012, 05:42 AM
Nothing happened to him, he was always a mug, who won a couple of MM tournies and fluked a slam semi after barely beating Mugic and no-wrist Delpotro. He was never anything special, his technique sucks, his serve sucks and he's a clown.

At just 23 years old, he was won $4.5 million just in prize money (plus who knows how much more in endorsements and exhibitions).

If he's a clown, you're the joke.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:36 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=166121

Thanks. This is horrible, must have really affected Marin. Had no idea.

Mark Lenders
05-03-2012, 03:38 PM
He's the 24th best tennis player in the world, out of 7 billion people. Since when is that "average"?

You people need a reality check :cuckoo:

Average in relative terms, compared to what he once was. Of course in absolute terms he's not average.

But compared to the player he was in late 2009/early 2010, he is.