If Federer doesn't win any more slams... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

If Federer doesn't win any more slams...

FedforFrench
08-17-2010, 08:02 PM
If Federer doesn't win any more slams, how many does Nadal need to win to be GOAT? I would say, he needs 14 if one of them is US open, otherwise 15. If Nadal comes anywhere close to those numbers, the H2H will tilt it in his favour. What do others think?

scarecrows
08-17-2010, 08:06 PM
lol

Smoke944
08-17-2010, 08:09 PM
lol

Har-Tru
08-17-2010, 08:11 PM
lol

FedforFrench
08-17-2010, 08:16 PM
Why so many lols...I don't get it..

Arkulari
08-17-2010, 08:20 PM
lol

docking34
08-17-2010, 08:21 PM
lmao

dombrfc
08-17-2010, 08:22 PM
ROFL

Seriously.. Its not possible to really put a figure on it in my opinion.

For me.. Nadal will never be GOAT material anyway. Its the brand of tennis.

ORGASMATRON
08-17-2010, 08:27 PM
Why so many lols...I don't get it..

lol

LoveFifteen
08-17-2010, 08:34 PM
Honey, Nadal could win 20 Slams, and most of this board would still consider him a talentless hack. It's best not to engage bitter, hateful Eurotrash in conversation! :lol:

HKz
08-17-2010, 08:35 PM
See this is why H2H means absolutely nothing to me. OP you're a joke. If a player has a winning H2H record, it doesn't mean shit if he can't accomplish more than him. A tennis player's place in history is determined from his ability to win against the ATP not one damn player. So unless Nadal surpasses Federer's records then it doesn't mean anything.

Do you consider Borg and McEnroe even? They are 7:7 H2H and obviously Borg has more slams than McEnroe.

FedforFrench
08-17-2010, 08:40 PM
See this is why H2H means absolutely nothing to me. OP you're a joke. If a player has a winning H2H record, it doesn't mean shit if he can't accomplish more than him. A tennis player's place in history is determined from his ability to win against the ATP not one damn player. So unless Nadal surpasses Federer's records then it doesn't mean anything.

Do you consider Borg and McEnroe even? They are 7:7 H2H and obviously Borg has more slams than McEnroe.


McEnroe has 7 slams, Borg has 11..Thats a big difference; but if you have to compare 14 to 16, its not much, and other factors would come into picture..

HKz
08-17-2010, 08:44 PM
McEnroe has 7 slams, Borg has 11..Thats a big difference; but if you have to compare 14 to 16, its not much, and other factors would come into picture..

Fact is H2H means NOTHING. If Nadal is truly the superior player, then he should be able to surpass Federer's records. If he can't, then clearly Roger was the more dominant/superior player when considering playing against the ATP as a whole which is what you're made of. Winning tournaments means something, not beating one player.

ApproachShot
08-17-2010, 08:48 PM
8, but we can cross that bridge if and when we get to it. Ceteris paribus (ie. if slam count and other important metrics are equal) then naturally the H2H will be a strong argument for Nadal but for now even he acknowledges that Federer is the GOAT. For while the H2H may be in his favour, he is down in the count of tournaments won when they were both in the draw. Success in tennis is defined against the field of players, the yardstick is not the results against a given player - indeed two ATP players need not play a competitive match against each other throughout the duration of a season but this fact does not necessarily invalidate or nullify their respective achievements.

I'll always have a slight preference for Federer's style of play but if we ever do get to a stage where Rafa surpasses Roger in most of the important statistics then I would genuinely be happy that a fine ambassador for sport should be a new GOAT candidate. I believe that by the end of their individual careers Nadal will definitely be up with the all time greats; it is likely to transpire though, that some of Roger's most significant records are just out of his reach.

Arkulari
08-17-2010, 08:49 PM
8, but we can cross that bridge if and when we get to it. Ceteris paribus (ie. if slam count and other important metrics are equal) then naturally the H2H will be a strong argument for Nadal but for now even he acknowledges that Federer is the GOAT.

I'll always have a slight preference for Federer's style of play but if we ever do get to a stage where Rafa surpasses Roger in most of the important statistics then I would genuinely be happy that a fine ambassador for sport should be a new GOAT candidate. I believe that by the end of their respective careers Nadal will definitely be up with the all time greats; it is likely to transpire though, that some of Roger's most significant records are just out of his reach.

this, a million times this :worship:

r2473
08-17-2010, 08:49 PM
I'm not sure which I like more.....GOAT threads or XXX should retire threads.

http://www.troutmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Matt_flavor-of-the-day.jpg

ORGASMATRON
08-17-2010, 08:52 PM
its pretty simple. what is more important, h2h or slams? if you know anything you would say slams. ask yourself who is better, the guy with 1, 2 or 3 slams, or the guy with the better h2h but 0 slams? its clearly the guy with the slams.

djb84xi
08-17-2010, 10:52 PM
I still credit him as the greatest ever, despite the fact I'm a Nadal fan, lol. Fed will be the best ever until someone comes along and eclipses his records and accomplishments............which may be NEVER or a very very long time from now.

dombrfc
08-17-2010, 10:58 PM
8, but we can cross that bridge if and when we get to it. Ceteris paribus (ie. if slam count and other important metrics are equal) then naturally the H2H will be a strong argument for Nadal but for now even he acknowledges that Federer is the GOAT. For while the H2H may be in his favour, he is down in the count of tournaments won when they were both in the draw. Success in tennis is defined against the field of players, the yardstick is not the results against a given player - indeed two ATP players need not play a competitive match against each other throughout the duration of a season but this fact does not necessarily invalidate or nullify their respective achievements.

I'll always have a slight preference for Federer's style of play but if we ever do get to a stage where Rafa surpasses Roger in most of the important statistics then I would genuinely be happy that a fine ambassador for sport should be a new GOAT candidate. I believe that by the end of their individual careers Nadal will definitely be up with the all time greats; it is likely to transpire though, that some of Roger's most significant records are just out of his reach.

This, this and this.
Conversation over.

sabina_RF_lee
08-18-2010, 07:35 AM
Fed is the GOAT and nadal never will be

HKz
08-18-2010, 09:57 AM
Fed is the GOAT and nadal never will be

Come on now, this is what gives true Federer fans a bad name. At least show some respect, because clearly "nadal never will be" is unnecessary. He still deserves all the respect because it obviously takes years of hard work and dedication to tennis whoever you are regardless of what type of tennis you play.

Sophocles
08-18-2010, 10:13 AM
We all know H2H is irrelevant. Nobody gives a shit about it when comparing Becker & Edberg, or Borg & McEnroe, or Connors & Lendl, or indeed any rivals in tennis history, with the signal exception of Federer & Nadal when braindead Rafatards are talking. Nadal has 1 or 2 achievements Federer hasn't - Davis Cup, Masters record, clay winning streak - but to be considered definitively greater than Federer, he would need 17 slams, 286 weeks at No. 1, 2 slams won 5 times in a row, & 23 straight slam semis.

Matt01
08-18-2010, 10:31 AM
Come on now, this is what gives true Federer fans a bad name.


Indeed. Quite pathetic that post above.

Xristos
08-18-2010, 12:04 PM
lolz.

born_on_clay
08-18-2010, 12:36 PM
lol

n8
08-18-2010, 12:50 PM
ROFL

Seriously.. Its not possible to really put a figure on it in my opinion.

For me.. Nadal will never be GOAT material anyway. Its the brand of tennis.

This argument really frustrates me. A player could have ugly strokes and be a total grinder but if his achievements outweigh someone else's with talent and grace galore, then the former should be considered first under GOAT discussions.

To answer the OP, there is no way Nadal is being considered GOAT over Federer if he ends up with less Grand Slams AND no US Open.

Stefanos13
08-18-2010, 12:59 PM
If Federer doesn't win any more slams, how many does Nadal need to win to be GOAT? I would say, he needs 14 if one of them is US open, otherwise 15. If Nadal comes anywhere close to those numbers, the H2H will tilt it in his favour. What do others think?

I'm a Nadal fan and here's this: these days the ONLY way to rank the tennis players in history is by the number of Grand Slams they accumulate. H2Hs and whether they won all four are only interesting statistics which are taken into account only if two players have the same number of Grand Slams.

:wavey:

paseo
08-18-2010, 01:04 PM
lol

Sri
08-18-2010, 01:06 PM
Doesn't matter. Brands will anyway out-GOAT both of them .. ;-)

Sri
08-18-2010, 01:08 PM
lol

n8
08-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Doesn't matter. Brands will anyway out-GOAT both of them .. ;-)

Oh no, you've been brainwashed by Serenidad! Repeat after me, Brands is not grand, Brands is not grand...

Sri
08-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Serenidad's a hack. I was the original Brandwagoner. Brands FTW!

FedforFrench
08-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Ok, most here agree that Nadal has to break Federer's slam record to be called GOAT, irrespective of the H2H. But I am surprised that in most sports articles on the web, everyone mentions Federer's H2H against Nadal when discussing his greatness/legacy..

Myrre
08-18-2010, 03:54 PM
The H2H only proves Nadal is better on clay. Everybody knows that.

Sophocles
08-18-2010, 04:34 PM
But I am surprised that in most sports articles on the web, everyone mentions Federer's H2H against Nadal when discussing his greatness/legacy..

That's because they're desperately looking for a blot.

Ozone
08-18-2010, 04:37 PM
lol

Riaan
08-18-2010, 08:55 PM
Being the Greatest of All Time encompasses much more than just winning more titles than anyone else. It is the stature of the player, his on and off court behaviour, integrity etc that also count - I discuss some of these aspects in my article on Wimbledon Statistics here (http://www.riaanbooysen.com/misc/47-tennis).

When Nadal is in trouble, he does not hesitate to use the medical timeout excuse to upset his opponent - it works like a charm. Dishonesty does not become the GOAT.