Who is better, Berdych or Soderling? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who is better, Berdych or Soderling?

tennishero
07-02-2010, 04:33 PM
similar styles, both have had a breakthrough year (soderling 2009), and have reached a final beating federer on the way.

Serenidad
07-02-2010, 04:34 PM
In max potential, Berdych. Better rally shot, better mover, more precision, and could be argued he has better variety and volleys.

Danni John
07-02-2010, 04:37 PM
obviously Robin Soderling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kooties
07-02-2010, 04:41 PM
Berdych I reckon is the most talented of the "big boys" (Soderling, Delpo, Birdy, Cilic).

But up till now, Soderling is just mentally stronger.

Voo de Mar
07-02-2010, 04:43 PM
In max potential, Berdych. Better rally shot, better mover, more precision, and could be argued he has better variety and volleys.

Fully agree with this, and I would add that Berdych has impressive overhead from no man's land.

Jomp1
07-02-2010, 04:49 PM
In max potential, Berdych. Better rally shot, better mover, more precision, and could be argued he has better variety and volleys.

Pretty much any player has more max potential than Soderling based on such comparison. Luckily for Sod he's got a top serve along with top groundstrokes and is better than most mentally aswell which is probably why he won their last meeting. Not much apart them other than that. You can't use drop shots very often or come to the net either all that much against Soderling because of his power, so variety becomes moot. Berdych didn't do anything but baseline in RG.

madmax
07-02-2010, 04:50 PM
I'd say Soderling is the most spectacular shotmaker of all big boys, but also mentally fragile the most. Berdych seems to have a very laboured game style, but he is a bit more stable psychologically

Allegretto
07-02-2010, 04:51 PM
The player I like better is the best. He is the best because I say so.

Smoke944
07-02-2010, 04:51 PM
Berdych I reckon is the most talented of the "big boys" (Soderling, Delpo, Birdy, Cilic).

But up till now, Soderling is just mentally stronger.

Is he better than Del Potro? I don't know.

Sapeod
07-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Berdych is way more talented. Soderling is more powerful and and more mentally stable.

henke007
07-02-2010, 04:52 PM
Not much of a difference except that Robin leads the H2H and has 2 Slamfinals!!

I would argue that Robin has the better serve overall inkl 2nd serve with a higher servespeed and maybe a more devastating FH but its damn close.

Rafaspin
07-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Del Potro is the best of the 'Big Boys'.

alter ego
07-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Soderling and it's not even close.

Certinfy
07-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Forehand: Berdych
Backhand: Soderling
Volleys: Berdych
Serve: Soderling
Return: Berdych
Movement: Berdych
Mentality: Soderling(?)

Rafaspin
07-02-2010, 05:00 PM
Forehand: Berdych
Backhand: Soderling
Volleys: Berdych
Serve: Soderling
Return: Berdych
Movement: Berdych
Mentality: Soderling(?)

Berdych's FH bigger than Sodas???

Certinfy
07-02-2010, 05:01 PM
Overall his FH is better than Soderling's, that much is obvious.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2010, 05:02 PM
If you asked this question after RG, everyone would pick Soderling. Asking it now, everyone will pick Berdych.

Azurebi
07-02-2010, 05:08 PM
First, I wanna see Berdych's nerve on Sunday :)

Leo
07-02-2010, 05:10 PM
Pretty even in talent. Different techniques and slightly different game styles.

Leo
07-02-2010, 05:11 PM
If you asked this question after RG, everyone would pick Soderling. Asking it now, everyone will pick Berdych.

Yeah, this is why I think it's funny everyone dumping Sod and jumping on the Berdy bandwagon. We will see in time who produces bigger results from their big games.

TheBoiledEgg
07-02-2010, 05:18 PM
Toad's shots just look fugly

Berdy !!!!!!!!!!!

River
07-02-2010, 05:21 PM
You need more than a one-hit cannon that Soderling has. Berdych has a lot more to offer.

rocketassist
07-02-2010, 05:22 PM
Don't know. Both better than 'delpo' though. Hope this helps.

Jomp1
07-02-2010, 05:24 PM
If you asked this question after RG, everyone would pick Soderling. Asking it now, everyone will pick Berdych.

One has to wonder, what really is the difference right now compared to RG? Soderling beat Federer and Berdych there. Berdych beat Federer here. Both have beaten Murray and Djokovic "lately". Both have problems with Rafa. Then what is more telling than their actual h2h or last meeting?

henke007
07-02-2010, 05:25 PM
You need more than a one-hit cannon that Soderling has. Berdych has a lot more to offer.

i think you are referring to the player in your Avatar :wavey:

Sod has a perfect Serve,FH and a great BH!!

Serenidad
07-02-2010, 05:25 PM
Yeah, this is why I think it's funny everyone dumping Sod and jumping on the Berdy bandwagon. We will see in time who produces bigger results from their big games.

Not bandwagon. It was true before Wimbledon. It is true now.

Leo
07-02-2010, 05:28 PM
Not bandwagon. It was true before Wimbledon. It is true now.

You have this poll in December 2009 and I guarantee you different results.

Berdych was lost for a good number of years.

BodyServe
07-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Soderling highest level is higher but Berdych is a more complete player.

Orka_n
07-02-2010, 05:31 PM
Berdych is a more complete player. He has better touch than Soderling. On the other hand, Soderling hits harder.
As to who is better - it's obviously pretty even. Time will tell, can't we leave it at that?

born_on_clay
07-02-2010, 05:33 PM
Soderling

rubbERR
07-02-2010, 05:46 PM
when you have already earned nickname like "birdshit" and "mugerling" youre doomed and your future success is obviously fluke

Orka_n
07-02-2010, 05:51 PM
when you have already earned nickname like "birdshit" and "mugerling" youre doomed and your future success is obviously flukeEveryone has insulting nicknames here, Einstein. And even the future successes are fluke? :haha: Go home.

rubbERR
07-02-2010, 05:53 PM
Everyone has insulting nicknames here, Einstein. And even the future successes are fluke? :haha: Go home.

im already home, mr.nobody

Sillyrabbit
07-02-2010, 05:57 PM
Can't pick, but give me Berdych anyday, has a bit more variety to his game, plus the way he swings and just makes it look like he's generating effortless power is lovely to watch, plus I think he moves waaay better than Soderling for a tall guy.

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Berdych is CLEARLY a better player. He was controlling the match at the French before he tired. He hits the ball cleaner, he moves significantly better, he volleys significantly better, return is much better, more consistent, more variety, only difference is the power, which Tomas counteracts with being better with his timing. It's not even close.

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 06:03 PM
If you asked this question after RG, everyone would pick Soderling. Asking it now, everyone will pick Berdych.

No, actually, I thought Tomas was better than him and would win that match at the French and he was looking good being 2 sets to 1 with points for a break in the 4th. I can't see how anyone says Soderling is better.

Sunset of Age
07-02-2010, 06:07 PM
Tomas, imho, is the 'more talented/alround/gifted' player (whatever that's supposed to mean :o), but the numbers don't lie - Soderling has made it to two GS finals, Berdych to one as of yet. Both of them are excellent 'giant killa's' when they're on, and that's admirable of the both of them. :)

River
07-02-2010, 06:11 PM
i think you are referring to the player in your Avatar :wavey:

Sod has a perfect Serve,FH and a great BH!!

The one-shot canon almost brought Federer to his knees last year on his best surface. Unlike the one-shot cannon Soderling who seems to be the plaything of whoever makes the RG finals. When Soderling's mentality is down, all his strokes suffer. Roddick's serve will always be solid even when mentally pressured.

Berdych has begun to learn that.

tsonga12345
07-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Del Potro > Soderling > Berdych >>>>>>>> Cilic

But Berdych is still be improving, whereas Soda seems to be plateauing.

sebbe
07-02-2010, 08:42 PM
Maybe the should play doubles together!?

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 09:32 PM
No, actually, I thought Tomas was better than him and would win that match at the French and he was looking good being 2 sets to 1 with points for a break in the 4th. I can't see how anyone says Soderling is better.

better Slam success + higher ranking

tennishero
07-02-2010, 09:43 PM
really even so far, expected i guess.. i'd go with berdych, as most have said better all around game.

Topspin Forehand
07-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Soderling with better movement. He already beat Berdych at RG. Both are dangerous players. You can't let them get in the lead.

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 09:53 PM
Soderling with better movement. He already beat Berdych at RG. Both are dangerous players. You can't let them get in the lead.

Robin is NOT a better move than Tomas. Also, the question is, will Robin ever get past that "dangerous" tag and actually become a consistent winner against top players in all events? Tomas is making moves in that direction, Soderling hasn't yet.

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 09:54 PM
better Slam success + higher ranking

OK, with that said, Roddick is more talented then both of them.

Topspin Forehand
07-02-2010, 09:56 PM
Robin is NOT a better move than Tomas. Also, the question is, will Robin ever get past that "dangerous" tag and actually become a consistent winner against top players in all events? Tomas is making moves in that direction, Soderling hasn't yet.
That's because Berdych hasn't played Nadal yet. ;)

brent-o
07-02-2010, 09:58 PM
For me, it's too hard to say. One thing that I can say though is I prefer Berdych's forehand. It seems more versatile, with a little more spin.

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 09:59 PM
Well you hate Soderling and said that everyone who said he'd win that semi against Berdych were wrong, so theres no poin using reason here so I wont.


SODDY IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!1!!

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 10:05 PM
Well you hate Soderling and said that everyone who said he'd win that semi against Berdych were wrong, so theres no poin using reason here so I wont.


SODDY IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!1!!

I don't hate Soderling. I like him, he's feisty and powerful. Most of his fans are either delusional and extremely defensive Swedes or bandwagoners. I can understand the Swedes backing up their man, but most of the other Soderling fans are gross with their behavior and lack tact.

I was wrong about that SF match, which I admitted. I was wrong about the result. I was right about Tomas outplaying Robin, he was throughout most of the match, and then he wilted. He got stronger from that moment and has matured, and to me is above Robin in overall level at this point.

Montego
07-02-2010, 10:05 PM
Both more or less similar

Soderling overachieved so far imo, Berdych underachieved = equal

Berdych has a nicer game to watch and seems more natural in his game, he has more talent

But Soderling maximized his potential better

50-50

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 10:07 PM
That's because Berdych hasn't played Nadal yet. ;)

Robin failed to make either match at Wimbledon or the French competitive. If Tomas makes the match with Rafa competitive, that pretty much further adds to the point I made, that Tomas can legitimately be grouped with the top dogs, where as Robin is just "dangerous".

Topspin Forehand
07-02-2010, 10:10 PM
Robin failed to make either match at Wimbledon or the French competitive. If Tomas makes the match with Rafa competitive, that pretty much further adds to the point I made, that Tomas can legitimately be grouped with the top dogs, where as Robin is just "dangerous".
I don't see Berdych making it any more competitive. Soderling did win a set on Nadal and almost took the second and third. Nadal had break points against him in the second and a close tiebreaker.

Filo V.
07-02-2010, 10:19 PM
I don't see Berdych making it any more competitive. Soderling did win a set on Nadal and almost took the second and third. Nadal had break points against him in the second and a close tiebreaker.

It was a comfortable win for Rafa, but you're right, it wasn't a blowout. Robin kept it close, he just didn't threaten to actually win the match, really. So it will be interesting to see if Tomas can do so. I don't think he'll make it competitive at all, but that has a lot to do with Rafa and the match up.

Personally, I just see Tomas as more of a legitimate "he will win X match" player, instead of just "he's a threat to win when he's on" player. He's stepped past that dangerous level and into the top players category.

henke007
07-02-2010, 10:22 PM
Nadal had 2 outside lines in the breaker lol@ Soda not making that match competitive uppuntill that.

Rafa also had 2 netcords in the first servicegame Sod lost in the 4th set!!

Flyboy you really don't know what you are talking about saying that Robin isn't grouped with the topdogs. He has been there steady for a year soon and defended his FO final def Cilic in str8s, Federer in 4 and was mentally tuffer against Tomas in the semi. Lets see if Tomas defends his Wimbledon final next year shall we!!

6-3 h2h for Robin

Orka_n
07-02-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't hate Soderling. I like him, he's feisty and powerful. Most of his fans are either delusional and extremely defensive Swedes or bandwagoners. I can understand the Swedes backing up their man, but most of the other Soderling fans are gross with their behavior and lack tact.And this from a Nadaltard. :crazy:

Also, "Robin is just dangerous"? He's ranked world #5 as of next week and he's beaten Nadal & Federer in slams. :rolleyes: He fights with the "top dogs" on the same conditions as Berdych.

Sunset of Age
07-02-2010, 10:33 PM
That's because Berdych hasn't played Nadal yet. ;)

Are you sure about that? :scratch:

Topspin Forehand
07-02-2010, 10:39 PM
Are you sure about that? :scratch:
90% certain that Berdych will fall similar to how Soderling fell. Murray was Nadal's biggest threat imo. Unless Nadal plays terrible, I see a somewhat easy match.

henke007
07-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Well Actually Haase, Petzhner and Sod are the only ones that took a set of Rafa so lets see what Tomas can do. In all fair opinion Nole and Murray had joke draws and their Semi showings reflected that.

A_Skywalker
07-02-2010, 11:16 PM
If Berdych wins against Nadal on that final he surely will be remembered as better than Soderling.

Mjau!
07-03-2010, 01:22 AM
Berdych is superior mover with more variety and his mechanics might be better on fast courts.

Söderling is obviously more powerful with every shot.

Filo V.
07-03-2010, 01:38 AM
I understand all the arguments, I want to see if Robin can actually back up the win v. Federer somewhere else, as he has failed to do with Rafa outside of the end last year when Rafa was not 100%. Secondly, I need to see Robin perform better at AO, and do a bit better outside of GS events. So, due to consistency, in matches and season, I don't put Soderling in the top group. He can strike when he's hot and beat top guys, but that's the definition of dangerous, which is my whole point.

enigma
07-03-2010, 02:14 AM
Soderling:D

DwyaneWade
07-03-2010, 02:20 AM
They are very even. The subtleties that distinguish their strengths have been discussed already.

Both right now are in that top 8-9 dangerous player category. But until one of them proves they can win a Slam (usually getting through Nadal, Federer, or both) then there is no good way to distinguish them.

Personally as a Nadal fan I am much more fearful on Soderling on any surface than Berdych. He strikes the ball much harder and when he is clicking is one of the most impressive hitters I have ever seen.

henke007
07-03-2010, 08:46 AM
I understand all the arguments, I want to see if Robin can actually back up the win v. Federer somewhere else, as he has failed to do with Rafa outside of the end last year when Rafa was not 100%. Secondly, I need to see Robin perform better at AO, and do a bit better outside of GS events. So, due to consistency, in matches and season, I don't put Soderling in the top group. He can strike when he's hot and beat top guys, but that's the definition of dangerous, which is my whole point.

B2B semis at Iw and Miami Win in Rotterdam and Final in Barcelona says :wavey:

harman99
07-04-2010, 01:14 AM
Berdych is better.

betowiec
07-04-2010, 01:55 AM
tomorrow's final will tell

Certinfy
07-04-2010, 08:27 AM
30-30 in the poll :speakles:

JolánGagó
07-04-2010, 10:04 AM
Berdych is better, Toad has some more balls.

Halba
07-04-2010, 10:17 AM
currently better is berdych. soderling was overall awful in the QF against rafa.

berdych beat fed @ W
much tougher than beating fed @ RG!

sod beat nadal at RG last yr, but sod form no where near that this year

allpro
07-04-2010, 10:49 AM
t-berd has the better all-around game and higher court IQ.

MacTheKnife
07-04-2010, 11:11 AM
In max potential, Berdych. Better rally shot, better mover, more precision, and could be argued he has better variety and volleys.

This.;)

alter ego
07-04-2010, 11:21 AM
currently better is berdych. soderling was overall awful in the QF against rafa.

berdych beat fed @ W
much tougher than beating fed @ RG!

sod beat nadal at RG last yr, but sod form no where near that this year

Did you actually saw the matches you are talking about ? Roger played a superb first set against Robin at RG. While against Berdych (and the whole Wimbledon for that matter) Fed was out of it,because he couldn't move like he wanted to.

This thread just shows the power of the bandwagon. LMAO at people saying that Berdych is more consistent than Soderling. If that's the case then why does Soderling have a better ranking, 2 GS finals while Berdych has one and a better H2H (6-3) ?

Action Jackson
07-15-2012, 01:47 AM
Söderling and Berdych, can only compare until this time last year as Söderling's last match was the title in Båstad.

Gago summed it up technically Berdych is better, but Söderling has had the bigger performances.

dencod16
07-15-2012, 02:58 AM
Berdych has a better overall game, i think he has the best game of all big hitter, though his mental focus and toughness is just bad, Soderling has more belief than him.

Allez
07-15-2012, 08:48 AM
Too tough. If I have to pick one I'd have to say Berdych but if I had to pick someone I'd want to play on my behalf if my life was on the line I'd pick Soderling (at least it would be 50-50)...

peRfect-Tennis
07-15-2012, 01:21 PM
Soderling for me. They are both one dimensional but Berdych more so.

Roy Emerson
07-15-2012, 02:31 PM
Soderling

nevenez
09-17-2013, 11:40 AM
Talent wise it's Berdych obviously.

Doktor Carpet
09-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Soderling way better.

JamieBlake
09-17-2013, 12:28 PM
Berdych is a bit more talented, Soderling is a bit mentally stronger. Both awesome players anyway.

Berdych's FH bigger than Sodas???

Yes.

Wing Man Frank
09-17-2013, 12:28 PM
Soderling clearly.

Dave_92
09-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Berdych+Soderling = Berderling > New Slam Contender.

chili
09-17-2013, 04:22 PM
:facepalm:

For the record Soderling beat Berdych 6-1 6-0 in his last tournament to date.

Gabe32
09-17-2013, 04:32 PM
1) Del Potro
2) Soderling
3) Berdych

Beating Rafa at RG is the equivalent of a Masters or something. Only 1 person has done it.

Murray=God
09-17-2013, 04:42 PM
:facepalm:

For the record Soderling beat Berdych 6-1 6-0 in his last tournament to date.

I didn't see the match but that's a pretty damn conclusive scoreline. When on tour SoderKing definitely had the higher peak level.

Mark Lenders
09-17-2013, 05:49 PM
They are roughly on the same level, as is Tsonga.

No1emania
09-17-2013, 05:51 PM
consistency: Berdych

peak: Soderling

Baseline86
09-17-2013, 08:00 PM
on Peak Soderling, ON consistency Berdych.

Baseline86
09-17-2013, 08:03 PM
They are roughly on the same level, as is Tsonga.

Tsonga is not on the same level as Berdych.

Berdych and ferrer are on similar level imo, Tsonga consistecy is just as bad as it comes.

Overall I'd put it

Berdych/Ferrer
Delpotro
Soderling
Tsonga

On that order overall


However speaking at pure tennis peaks..

Del Potro
Soderling
Berdych/Ferrer/Tsonga

Gabe32
09-17-2013, 08:13 PM
Tsonga is not on the same level as Berdych.

Berdych and ferrer are on similar level imo, Tsonga consistecy is just as bad as it comes.

Overall I'd put it

Berdych/Ferrer
Delpotro
Soderling
Tsonga

On that order overall


However speaking at pure tennis peaks..

Del Potro
Soderling
Berdych/Ferrer/Tsonga

How is Del Potro above everyone else at "pure tennis peaks" but not "overall?" I am assuming overall means achievements? Overall, DelPo has a slam.

Mark Lenders
09-17-2013, 08:19 PM
Tsonga is not on the same level as Berdych.

Berdych and ferrer are on similar level imo, Tsonga consistecy is just as bad as it comes.

Overall I'd put it

Berdych/Ferrer
Delpotro
Soderling
Tsonga

On that order overall


However speaking at pure tennis peaks..

Del Potro
Soderling
Berdych/Ferrer/Tsonga

What exactly does Berdych have over Tsonga if I may ask? Both have a Slam final - and Tsonga was way more competitive in his - but Tsonga has more Slam SFs and QFs and has beaten all of the top players at Slams (Berdych hasn't beaten Nadal); both have a Masters title but Tsonga beat Djokovic and Nalbandian en route to his. Tsonga has 10 titles to 8 for Berdych, and has also been on tour for a way shorter period...

Why is del Potro even mentioned here? He won a Slam beating the arguably the two best players of all-time back to back, not to mention he's far more accomplished than all those players despite being younger and plagued by injuries, he has no place in this discussion...

Baseline86
09-17-2013, 08:23 PM
What exactly does Berdych have over Tsonga if I may ask? Both have a Slam final - and Tsonga was way more competitive in his - but Tsonga has more Slam SFs and QFs and has beaten all of the top players at Slams (Berdych hasn't beaten Nadal); both have a Masters title but Tsonga beat Djokovic and Nalbandian en route to his. Tsonga has 10 titles to 8 for Berdych, and has also been on tour for a way shorter period...

Why is del Potro even mentioned here? He won a Slam beating the arguably the two best players of all-time back to back, not to mention he's far more accomplished than all those players despite being younger and plagued by injuries, he has no place in this discussion...

He still belongs to the empty space after the BIG 4. Tsonga dissapeared for a good period of time of reaching high instances, however ferrer has always been there consistently since 2007, so has been Berdych. Tsonga is the most overrated tennis player ever.

Thierry Champion
09-17-2013, 08:27 PM
Berdych, not close for me.

Mark Lenders
09-17-2013, 08:28 PM
He still belongs to the empty space after the BIG 4. Tsonga dissapeared for a good period of time of reaching high instances, however ferrer has always been there consistently since 2007, so has been Berdych. Tsonga is the most overrated tennis player ever.

He belongs after the top 4, but way above the rest. You could put Ferrer, Berdych and Tsonga's achievements together and it still wouldn't stand up to delPo's USO title beating the two best players of all-time (arguably).

When did Tsonga disappear? He was a top 10 player in 2008 and 2009. He disappeared in 2010 after making SFs at AO because he was struggling with injury, but was back strong in 2011 and hasn't left the top 8 since. His Slams SFs are actually very spread out: one in 2008, one in 2010, one in 2011, one in 2012, on in 2013...

MaxPower
09-17-2013, 08:56 PM
Soderling vs Berdych 7-3

Soderling vs Tsonga 5-0

Soderling vs Ferrer 10-4


Soderling was a bit underrated. He could move, he could play on all surfaces. He was as good on fast indoor hc as on clay. Felt like he was a notch above Berdych for sure playing his best. Only player I felt was better at his very best was Del Potro

Sillyrabbit
09-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Even if Berdych wins multiple slams. The collective orgasm that's still taking place from 2009 will make sure MTF still puts him behind Soderling :shrug:

FlameOn
09-18-2013, 12:40 AM
Even after his long layoff, the answer for me is Robin. Berdych has done nothing except be consistent since he reached his Wimbledon final. He rarely wins titles (certainly no big ones if he does). Robin has one more slam final and has still won a big title more recently than Berdych :).

rocketassist
09-18-2013, 12:43 AM
Soderling vs Berdych 7-3

Soderling vs Tsonga 5-0

Soderling vs Ferrer 10-4


Soderling was a bit underrated. He could move, he could play on all surfaces. He was as good on fast indoor hc as on clay. Felt like he was a notch above Berdych for sure playing his best. Only player I felt was better at his very best was Del Potro

Soderling is probably more explosive than Del Potro although in the match-up Delpo has a huge advantage over him.

Unforced Terror
09-18-2013, 12:44 AM
I feel Berdych is more talented.

But Soderling was better, because he robot-ized his game and nearly always gave 100% effort into every stroke.

star
09-18-2013, 12:46 AM
Even if Berdych wins multiple slams. The collective orgasm that's still taking place from 2009 will make sure MTF still puts him behind Soderling :shrug:

:D

bobtherobot
09-18-2013, 01:16 AM
I think Soderling's peak is higher than Berdych's peak so I would go with Soderling...

Mae
09-18-2013, 01:51 AM
Soderling has been off the Tour for so long I don't see how he can be compared to a player that has been on the Tour? I wish he could get well!

FlameOn
09-18-2013, 01:53 AM
Soderling has been off the Tour for so long I don't see how he can be compared to a player that has been on the Tour? I wish he could get well!
Of course they're both legends of the game :angel: but I think the fact it's close even though Berdych has never had a layoff speaks volumes about Robin's '09-11 career :). I still say Robin's greater. Obviously Berdych is better right now, by default.

BodyServe
09-18-2013, 08:06 AM
Soderling is probably more explosive than Del Potro although in the match-up Delpo has a huge advantage over him.

I would have Soderling as favourite on fast indoor court like Paris 2010, remember Soderling's serve was huge and was almost unbreakable, the same can't be said about Del Potro.

Johnny_Bravo
09-18-2013, 08:44 AM
Birdman by far

Sombrerero loco
09-18-2013, 08:51 AM
well, berdych has had a better career thats for sure...

anyway, i really hope soderling can be back to paris or whenever he wants to. atp really needs him

Dave_92
09-18-2013, 10:08 AM
Soderling beat Rafa Nadal at ROLAND GARROS.

Is like winning a Slam.

Close this thread now.

chalkdust
09-18-2013, 10:11 AM
Soderling for me. Maybe less natural talent, but a much stronger competitor.

Certinfy
09-18-2013, 11:24 AM
Soderling and it's not even close.

Pepepaco
09-18-2013, 11:26 AM
Soderling beat Rafa Nadal at ROLAND GARROS.

Is like winning a Slam.

Close this thread now.

Most clever post i've ever read by a fedtard :worship:

Johnbert
09-18-2013, 11:35 AM
soderking.

2 slam finals. only guy who could beat nadal at rg so far.

edit: oh, and of course also this ;)

vUuVU03lY1c

HarryMan
09-18-2013, 12:32 PM
I would go with Soderling. Add to the fact that Soderling has one of the biggest upsets in tennis history, which looks like an anomaly currently - beating Nadal at RG.

BodyServe
09-18-2013, 07:39 PM
Soderling beat Rafa Nadal at ROLAND GARROS.

Is like winning a Slam.

Close this thread now.

This.

BackhandDTL
09-18-2013, 07:47 PM
Why is this still going?

I love both guys, but Soderling takes this hands down.

Do you know how rare it is to repeat a slam final appearance in this era (let alone two years straight)? Soderling did just that, putting on a phenomenal performance each year to beat two of the greatest players of all time en route to the final.

He was also amassing a great record against guys like Berdych (and Tsonga, Ferrer, etc.) prior to his premature exit.

Mark Lenders
09-18-2013, 07:55 PM
Why is this still going?

I love both guys, but Soderling takes this hands down.

Do you know how rare it is to repeat a slam final appearance in this era (let alone two years straight)? Soderling did just that, putting on a phenomenal performance each year to beat two of the greatest players of all time en route to the final.

He was also amassing a great record against guys like Berdych (and Tsonga, Ferrer, etc.) prior to his premature exit.

This is true, but on the other hand those were the only two occasions in which Soderling got past the QF at a Slam, both at RG. Berdych has at least one Slam SF on all surfaces (F on Wimbledon grass, 1 SF on HC, 1 SF on clay) and much more consistency overall at Slam and Masters level.

Not saying Berdych is better though, imo they are in the same league, as is Tsonga: if they are better than each other, it's only marginally.

chili
09-18-2013, 08:16 PM
Poll is too damn close.

I guess some people need a few reminders.

Until 2010 Berdych finished zero times in the year end top 10 (judging by what some say here you'd think he's a constant top 10 from 2006 or something).

Berdych has 1 slam final, Soderling 2.

Soderling leads the hth 7-3 including a few beatdowns.

Soderling has 58 weeks in top 5. Berdych just recently scored a few weeks with help form Federer.

10-8 titles for Soderling.

BackhandDTL
09-18-2013, 08:21 PM
This is true, but on the other hand those were the only two occasions in which Soderling got past the QF at a Slam, both at RG. Berdych has at least one Slam SF on all surfaces (F on Wimbledon grass, 1 SF on HC, 1 SF on clay) and much more consistency overall at Slam and Masters level.

Not saying Berdych is better though, imo they are in the same league, as is Tsonga: if they are better than each other, it's only marginally.

Yes, but Berdych has also had two more years to help round out those results (achieving the USO semi just last year for instance). I have no doubt Sod could have achieved similar success if he were playing right now.

I'm not saying he's is in another league as a player, but he clearly had the edge prior to his untimely leave. Pretty sure he had a commanding lead over everyone bar Ferrer at #5, and didn't look like he was going anywhere.

Anyway, your points are well considered. Just don't let a Ferrer fan see you talking about consistency.

chili
09-18-2013, 08:26 PM
I'm not saying he's is in another league as a player, but he clearly had the edge prior to his untimely leave. Pretty sure he had a commanding lead over everyone bar Ferrer at #5, and didn't look like he was going anywhere.


Think again. Soderling dominated most second tier top players except for Del Potro.

BackhandDTL
09-18-2013, 08:28 PM
Think again. Soderling dominated most second tier top players except for Del Potro.

Try reading next time. I was clearly referring to the rankings. Ferrer was about 200 points away from him by 2011, and the only one of the "tier 2" pack remotely close to him.

chili
09-18-2013, 08:35 PM
cool

Mark Lenders
09-18-2013, 08:37 PM
Yes, but Berdych has also had two more years to help round out those results (achieving the USO semi just last year for instance). I have no doubt Sod could have achieved similar success if he were playing right now.

I'm not saying he's is in another league as a player, but he clearly had the edge prior to his untimely leave. Pretty sure he had a commanding lead over everyone bar Ferrer at #5, and didn't look like he was going anywhere.

Anyway, your points are well considered. Just don't let a Ferrer fan see you talking about consistency.

I agree that by the time he left the tour Soderling was clearly ahead of Berdych/Tsonga career-wise and current level (at the time). You could put him in a tier of his own below del Potro and Murray (still Slamless at the time). But I think than in Soderling's absence, the other two caught up and their overall body of work puts them on the same league overall: who is better depends on what you value more really.

I'm still harboring some hopes that Berdych or Tsonga, or both, might distance themselves from the rest with some great results, especially Tsonga who doesn't have much mileage on his body. Soderling, even if he returns I'd not expect any more big achievements, 2 years is a very long layoff and he wasn't exactly training regularly either.

Abräumer
09-18-2013, 08:38 PM
Berdych was better before Söderling's roughly two year period at the top (for what it matters) and he has of course been better since. I think he'll end up with a better career as he slowly piles up the achievements but he might not quite be there yet. Obviously he won't match Söderling's peak.

BackhandDTL
09-18-2013, 08:57 PM
I agree that by the time he left the tour Soderling was clearly ahead of Berdych/Tsonga career-wise and current level (at the time). You could put him in a tier of his own below del Potro and Murray (still Slamless at the time). But I think than in Soderling's absence, the other two caught up and their overall body of work puts them on the same league overall: who is better depends on what you value more really.

I'm still harboring some hopes that Berdych or Tsonga, or both, might distance themselves from the rest with some great results, especially Tsonga who doesn't have much mileage on his body. Soderling, even if he returns I'd not expect any more big achievements, 2 years is a very long layoff and he wasn't exactly training regularly either.

They have, and I certainly acknowledge that, but I don't see that they're better for it (by comparison) so I'm glad you made that distinction.

I hope they distinguish themselves too, but it just seems so unrealistic right now. Tsonga, despite having the most potential of the bunch (imo), seems so lost. Amassed an abysmal record against his peers in 2012, and really didn't improve a whole lot on the big stage this year (blowing his best chance to make a Major final in years).

I'm a little more optimistic about Berdych, if only for that one performance he may produce where his nerves miraculously don't hold him back.

JarkaFish
09-18-2013, 08:59 PM
The only thing Birdshit is better than Soderling at is being a disgusting Nadull fangirl, that's for sure. :shrug:

Greco
09-19-2013, 12:42 AM
Berdych :)

FlameOn
09-19-2013, 01:08 AM
I agree that by the time he left the tour Soderling was clearly ahead of Berdych/Tsonga career-wise and current level (at the time). You could put him in a tier of his own below del Potro and Murray (still Slamless at the time). But I think than in Soderling's absence, the other two caught up and their overall body of work puts them on the same league overall: who is better depends on what you value more really.

I'm still harboring some hopes that Berdych or Tsonga, or both, might distance themselves from the rest with some great results, especially Tsonga who doesn't have much mileage on his body. Soderling, even if he returns I'd not expect any more big achievements, 2 years is a very long layoff and he wasn't exactly training regularly either.

Where in overall career stats is Tomas equal or better except current ranking?

Mark Lenders
09-19-2013, 02:11 AM
They have, and I certainly acknowledge that, but I don't see that they're better for it (by comparison) so I'm glad you made that distinction.

I hope they distinguish themselves too, but it just seems so unrealistic right now. Tsonga, despite having the most potential of the bunch (imo), seems so lost. Amassed an abysmal record against his peers in 2012, and really didn't improve a whole lot on the big stage this year (blowing his best chance to make a Major final in years).

I'm a little more optimistic about Berdych, if only for that one performance he may produce where his nerves miraculously don't hold him back.

Yeah, I don't think they are better either, as I said I put them on the same league. If forced to rank them, I'd go Tsonga > Soderling > Berdych, but I do so with very little conviction, there's little to separate their overall bodies of work. For instance, in terms of big Slam scalps, Soderling has the least (only two top 5 wins), but surely the most notorious of all (Nadal at RG). They all won the same Masters (Bercy) but Tsonga beat Djokovic and Nalbandian for it. In terms of overall ATP titles, 10 for Tsonga/Soderling, 8 for Berdych, not much in it. Soderling has that extra Slam final, but also the least consistent Slam results by far and I'd argue Tsonga has the best Slam final perofrmance if that means anything, he genuinely challenged Djokovic there.

It does seem unrealistic atm, both Berdych and Tsonga seem stuck in one place but I still have some hope. I'm pining my hopes on Tsonga because (a)Berdych turns into a hopeless kitten when facing Nadal and Djokovic, the two best players of this era and (b) this very important stat: Berdych - 651 matches on tour Tsonga - 397. Although they're the same age, Berdych has been around for much longer and has way more mileage; for that reason, I'm expecting Tsonga to stay at the top for longer, he has the mileage of a 24/25yo. He's also way more injury-prone though. I also feel he's the most talented of the bunch, and I'm hoping he can get it together sometime.

Berdych is a very frustrating player. Unlike his generation peers Tsonga (at 19, he was told he had only 50% chance of ever playing tennis again), Soderling, Ancic (mono for both) and even del Potro while we're at it (although he's much younger), Berdych has enjoyed pretty much an injury-free career for the most part and yet doesn't have all that much to show for it. I actually think he has a better game than Tsonga for this era, since he has no weaknesses from a technical point of view (while Tsonga's BH gets brutally exposed in rallies), but I seriously question his will to succeed - I don't see him particularly desperate to get out of this habit he got into over the past few years of getting consistent results but inevitably faltering to Djokovic or Nadal time and again, while Tsonga (and Soderling when he was around) seems much more driven imo. At many points this year, Berdych seemed to be like a man resigned and content to be a second tier player; I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though, well on the contrary.

Where in overall career stats is Tomas equal or better except current ranking?

More Slams semis (3-2), more Slam quarters (5-4), more rounded Slam results (SFs on all surfaces, while Soderling only got past QF at RG)..

More Masters finals (3-1), more Masters SFs (11-2)

Same WTF best result (SF)

More big Slams scalps: Federer 2x, Djokovic (not counting Murray especially on clay) vs Federer and Nadal


Basically, if Berdych reaches another Slam final, Soderling will have absolutely nothing over him career wise, the extra Slam final is the only possible argument in favor of Soderling (albeit a good one). I guess Robin also has more overall titles (10-8), but you'd expect Tomas to win at least three more small titles until the end of his career :lol:

FlameOn
09-19-2013, 02:20 AM
^ Oh wow, didn't realize all of that. Interesting :).

BauerAlmeida
09-19-2013, 02:21 AM
I don't know if I would consider Berdych having more big slam scalps. Beating Nadal at RG surely is something special.

And when he beat Federer there he ended one of the most outstanding streaks of all time. That's a lot better than beating Djokovic 1.0 at Wimbledon, Backerer and 2012 Federer imo.

Mark Lenders
09-19-2013, 02:38 AM
I don't know if I would consider Berdych having more big slam scalps. Beating Nadal at RG surely is something special.

And when he beat Federer there he ended one of the most outstanding streaks of all time. That's a lot better than beating Djokovic 1.0 at Wimbledon, Backerer and 2012 Federer imo.

More in sheer number. In terms of magnitude, Soderling's win over Nadal at the French Open is surely the biggest single win out of anyone withut a Slam title in the past decade.

Soderling has the lead on Berdych in terms of Slam finals for sure (2>1), but all the other metrics possible are in favor of Berdych, which at the very least puts them in the same league as players.

I made a mistake in my other post, Soderling reached 3 Masters 1000 SFs, Berdych reached 14, in terms f Masters QFs btw 7 for Robin, 27 for Berdych. Slam achievements below F also give the edge to Berdych. I don't think one extra Slam final is big enough to flat out ignore everything else and claim Soderling is better. IMO, they are on the same level - if Berdych reaches another Slam final, wins the WTF or another Masters 1000 with a complete field, he will be undisputably better imo, although not to a point where he's in a different league as a player.

BackhandDTL
09-19-2013, 02:50 AM
It does seem unrealistic atm, both Berdych and Tsonga seem stuck in one place but I still have some hope. I'm pining my hopes on Tsonga because (a)Berdych turns into a hopeless kitten when facing Nadal and Djokovic, the two best players of this era and (b) this very important stat: Berdych - 651 matches on tour Tsonga - 397. Although they're the same age, Berdych has been around for much longer and has way more mileage; for that reason, I'm expecting Tsonga to stay at the top for longer, he has the mileage of a 24/25yo. He's also way more injury-prone though. I also feel he's the most talented of the bunch, and I'm hoping he can get it together sometime.

Interesting point about Tsonga's mileage. I don't think I realized how relatively few matches he's played (on tour at least), but it makes sense because I only ever saw him once before '07.

I agree about his drive. The most telling thing about him that comes to mind was his transition to that '08 AO. I remember his match with Roddick the year before that run. He hammered the ball and squeaked out the first set before absolutely gassing - just couldn't keep up the effort anymore. The next year he came back fitter than ever before, with his shot-making fine-tuned, and stormed his way into the finals. It says a lot about what he can do when driven.

The thing is though, I think his confidence is teetering on the edge. His recent interview was great; he said all the right things. But it's hard to overlook the concessions he's made in recent year. We seem far away from the guy who once dismissed Nadal as a player like any other and Djokovic as "solid".

I'm also afraid that he may be hindered by his time. On one hand because the guys at the top are generally more balanced from the baseline these days and, as you alluded to, the surfaces favor the type of grinding he openly admitted that he can't do.

Still if he ever gets a break from Murray at Wimbledon (on grass in general, really), I believe he can do something there.

BackhandDTL
09-19-2013, 02:54 AM
I don't know if I would consider Berdych having more big slam scalps. Beating Nadal at RG surely is something special.

And when he beat Federer there he ended one of the most outstanding streaks of all time. That's a lot better than beating Djokovic 1.0 at Wimbledon, Backerer and 2012 Federer imo.

It's true that Berdych's biggest wins may be a bit circumstantial. He beat Djokovic and Murray on their respective worst surfaces in Majors, and his wins over Federer can probably be attributed to match-up. Still, it's hard to overlook it all collectively.

Mark Lenders
09-19-2013, 03:12 AM
Interesting point about Tsonga's mileage. I don't think I realized how relatively few matches he's played (on tour at least), but it makes sense because I only ever saw him once before '07.

I agree about his drive. The most telling thing about him that comes to mind was his transition to that '08 AO. I remember his match with Roddick the year before that run. He hammered the ball and squeaked out the first set before absolutely gassing - just couldn't keep up the effort anymore. The next year he came back fitter than ever before, with his shot-making fine-tuned, and stormed his way into the finals. It says a lot about what he can do when driven.

The thing is though, I think his confidence is teetering on the edge. His recent interview was great; he said all the right things. But it's hard to overlook the concessions he's made in recent year. We seem far away from the guy who once dismissed Nadal as a player like any other and Djokovic as "solid".

I'm also afraid that he may be hindered by his time. On one hand because the guys at the top are generally more balanced from the baseline these days and, as you alluded to, the surfaces favor the type of grinding he openly admitted that he can't do.

Still if he ever gets a break from Murray at Wimbledon (on grass in general, really), I believe he can do something there.

Mostly agree with this, Tsonga was born in the wrong era; he can't stay in rallies with Berdych or Soderling, let alone Djokovic, Murray and co. He has worked very hard to make his BH and ROS less of a liability, but they are still very exploitable. He's an explosive player in an era of marathon baseline rallies. His BH is the disaster we know, but even his FH, while great, is an explosive shot, not a particularly consistent one over the course of long rallies.

Tsonga actually needs a break from Djokovic at least as much as from Murray, against whom he loses but it's mostly close matches. Even on grass where Djokovic is at his worst, he's still a pretty bad matchup for Tsonga. He and Murray make so many good returns, they force Tsonga into rallies where his BH inevitably cracks. I feel he needs to play very close to his best to beat Djokovic or Murray. Nadal is actually a better opponent for him on any surface (bar Murray on clay) due to his relatively pedestrian return of serve, which allows Tsonga to thrive off 1-2 punches very often, which is when he's at his best. I think Tsonga recognizes he has big issues whenever opponents can return his serve consistently, look forward to seeing how he will attempt to solve this: bar injury, he should still have quite a few years of top level tennis left in him.

Schumacher
09-19-2013, 11:24 AM
They both have the performance to defeat the best, but only one of them has the balls to do so...