McEnroe and Murray estimate the top women's player would be ranked 600 to 1000 ATP [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

McEnroe and Murray estimate the top women's player would be ranked 600 to 1000 ATP

Pages : [1] 2

Johnny Groove
07-01-2010, 06:24 PM
Hilarious video.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8780054.stm

MacTheKnife
07-01-2010, 06:27 PM
They were in generous mood.. :lol:

sdtoot
07-01-2010, 06:31 PM
Murray :worship:

ShotmaKer
07-01-2010, 06:32 PM
just wait for the WTA tards to come here :lol:

Johnny Groove
07-01-2010, 06:35 PM
Someone needs to post this interview over at WTAworld and see the insanity that ensues.

arm
07-01-2010, 06:37 PM
there's no shame in that. almost like saying that men can't get pregnant. :shrug:

one thing is to discuss if they should earn the same, it's a bit unfair, I agree. But this is another thing, it's all about the anatomy and physiology of the body. :shrug:

and no I don't watch WTA. :lol:

Certinfy
07-01-2010, 06:39 PM
:haha: Too good.

green25814
07-01-2010, 06:40 PM
I don't even see why it would be a topic of discussion.

I will say though that womens tennis is a lot better than any other female sport, quality-wise.

Certinfy
07-01-2010, 06:42 PM
"A quick question here regarding women's tennis, we all know it's a bit of a joke"

:haha:

Kworb
07-01-2010, 06:42 PM
Let's get rid of women's professional sports altogether. There's no point cause they're not as good as the men.

sdtoot
07-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Someone needs to post this interview over at WTAworld and see the insanity that ensues.

Done!!

arm
07-01-2010, 06:49 PM
Done!!

So far they have way more intelligent/funny posts there :lol:

Aenea
07-01-2010, 06:51 PM
Someone needs to post this interview over at WTAworld and see the insanity that ensues.

what is this site I read so often being mentioned here? could you pls post a link so I can get to see it :)

arm
07-01-2010, 06:52 PM
what is this site I read so often being mentioned here? could you pls post a link so I can get to see it :)

it's kind of funny you don't know. :p there's a link in the MTF main page.

its wta version of MTF.. http://www.tennisforum.com/

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 06:54 PM
1,000 is still too high.

r2473
07-01-2010, 06:58 PM
Is anyone here knowledgeable enough about the men's players ranked between 500 and say 2000 to make an educated guess at this?

I think John was correct with is first comment. It really is an "apples and oranges" comparison.

My gut feeling would be pretty much along the lines of Murray. No way they would be competitive inside the top 1000. Inside the top 2000? I really don't know. It is my understanding that many WTA players have male juniors as hitting / practice partners and that the juniors would be very competitive with the top WTA players.

I imagine that the serve / return of serve is the biggest disparity. I would also imagine movement and stamina would be a big factor. I would imagine that WTA players could hold their own in groundstroke rallies with 1000 to 2000 ranked players.

Does anyone have any real insight into this?

Aenea
07-01-2010, 07:01 PM
it's kind of funny you don't know. :p there's a link in the MTF main page.

its wta version of MTF.. http://www.tennisforum.com/

thank you for the link :) how could I have known WTAworld as Jonathan called it is tennisforum.com from the link above :shrug: besides I never click on the links on this or any other site :scared: so I didn't know

star
07-01-2010, 07:01 PM
"I would be surprised if they were ranked inside 1,000."

Well, at least he didn't call them fat pigs.

Not going to make him popular though.

Johnny Groove
07-01-2010, 07:03 PM
I don't have any personal viewing, but I've read on more than one occasion the WTA player sparring with a competitive junior boy player.

I've heard that the junior has had to literally hold back when hitting.

thank you for the link :) how could I have known WTAworld as Jonathan called it is tennisforum.com from the link above :shrug: besides I never click on the links on this or any other site :scared: so I didn't know

I refrain from calling it that farcical name :p

WTAworld is its old name, similar to how MTF used to be called ATPworld.

delpiero7
07-01-2010, 07:04 PM
I'm sure if you threw King Oscar and Crazy Dani £20 they'd happily lose to any female player.

arm
07-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Is anyone here knowledgeable enough about the men's players ranked between 500 and say 2000 to make an educated guess at this?

My gut feeling would be pretty much along the lines of Murray. No way they would be competitive inside the top 1000. Inside the top 2000? I really don't know. It is my understanding that many WTA players have male juniors as hitting / practice partners and that the juniors would be very competitive with the top WTA players.

I imagine that the serve / return of serve is the biggest disparity. I would also imagine movement and stamina would be a big factor. I would imagine that WTA players could hold their own in groundstroke rallies with 1000 to 2000 ranked players.

Does anyone have any real insight into this?

wow :worship: you're being too reasonable. :) using logic and discussing the issue is not really the purpose of this thread (I think :scratch::awww:).

I have to admit I don't like wta either, though. :lol:

thank you for the link :) how could I have known WTAworld as Jonathan called it is tennisforum.com from the link above :shrug: besides I never click on the links on this or any other site :scared: so I didn't know

No problem. :) I only said that because at first I thought you were just joking (=bashing wta :tape:). Then I read it again and realized you were being serious... because you know, this thread is so not about being serious. :lol:

Certinfy
07-01-2010, 07:05 PM
I'm sure if you threw King Oscar and Crazy Dani £20 they'd happily lose to any female player.

Trust me, both couldn't lose to a WTA player even if they tried. :o

r2473
07-01-2010, 07:09 PM
wow :worship: you're being too reasonable. :) using logic and discussing the issue is not really the purpose of this thread (I think :scratch::awww:).

I know. But there are a few guys out here that really know about the lower ranked men. I was hoping they might see my post and weigh in. I am sort of interested in the answer (and I really have no clue myself).

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:10 PM
"I would be surprised if they were inside 1,000"

So true :worship:

Murray :yeah:

Time Violation
07-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Well, Serena at least shouldn't do too bad on the ATP. Not sure for the rest of them though. :p

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:14 PM
this is just ridiculous. there are several players outside the top 1000 and unranked players who would beat the WTA clowns. murray and mcenroe was clearly being gentlemen.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:15 PM
Lot's of bitter and angry WTAtards in the WTA forum :lol: Some of the posts there are ridiculous :lol: :o

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:15 PM
this is just ridiculous. there are several players outside the top 1000 and unranked players who would beat the WTA clowns. murray and mcenroe was clearly being gentlemen.
+1 They were being a bit generous. Every single male player on the tour, all the way down to the 1700 rankings could beat the top women players imo.

Certinfy
07-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Well, Serena at least shouldn't do too bad on the ATP. Not sure for the rest of them though. :pI actually disagree, as good as Serena's serve and groundstrokes are on the WTA, they would be near nothing on the ATP tour.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:17 PM
I know im alone here but this is not true at all

I honestly think that there are a fair number of women in the wta that could be top 50 atleast

both williams sisters, sharapova,clijsters and petrova to name a few.

You have women like sharapova and the williams sisters and petrova who can produce just as much power on the serve as the men and in some cases they produce more power then some men.

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:18 PM
+1 They were being a bit generous. Every single male player on the tour, all the way down to the 1700 rankings could beat the top women players imo.

+2 that is putting it generously. several men that is not currently ranked will beat serena williams. there is no doubt about it. i played against guys in french money tourneys who werent ranked but would be ranked inside the top 600 if they played atp events. if not higher.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:18 PM
Imagine Karlovic or Isner against WTA players :help: It would be carnage.

Aenea
07-01-2010, 07:19 PM
No problem. :) I only said that because at first I thought you were just joking (=bashing wta :tape:). Then I read it again and realized you were being serious... because you know, this thread is so not about being serious. :lol:

yes, I understood it was not serious but I wanted to have a look at that site that seems to be so popular even at mtf

I don't know where top women player would be in the ATP ranking but Serena has said she only wouldn't play Rafa, Fed and Santoro. Besides those three she's ready to face any other player from ATP. And I know she has beaten Andy Roddick some time ago.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:20 PM
I know im alone here but this is not true at all

I honestly think that there are a fair number of women in the wta that could be top 50 atleast

both williams sisters, sharapova,clijsters and petrova to name a few.

You have women like sharapova and the williams sisters and petrova who can produce just as much power on the serve as the men and in some cases they produce more power then some men.
What a joke. No offense but that's completely wrong.

A strong as the Williams sisters and Petrova are, the men would simply destroy them.

arm
07-01-2010, 07:21 PM
I know im alone here but this is not true at all

I honestly think that there are a fair number of women in the wta that could be top 50 atleast

both williams sisters, sharapova,clijsters and petrova to name a few.

You have women like sharapova and the williams sisters and petrova who can produce just as much power on the serve as the men and in some cases they produce more power then some men.

IMO, the serve is almost the smallest problem. I mean look at Nadal's serve a few years ago, it was a joke and he still won quite a few matches :lol:. It's the stamina. They just wouldn't last 5 sets... nope. and they are slower, that plus the stamina factor during rallies would just make it impossible for them to really compete with men.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:22 PM
What a joke. No offense but that's completely wrong.

A strong as the Williams sisters and Petrova are, the men would simply destroy them.

yeah, some men would but i do not truly belive the likes of beck, zverev, debakker, chiudinelli and gimeno-traver would destroy them

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:22 PM
I don't know where top women player would be in the ATP ranking but Serena has said she only wouldn't play Rafa, Fed and Santoro. Besides those three she's ready to face any other player from ATP. And I know she has beaten Andy Roddick some time ago.
Why Santoro? :lol:
She would be ready to face them, but she'd have no chance.

She beat Roddick when she was 12, and he was 11 :help: He would annihilate her now.

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
yes, I understood it was not serious but I wanted to have a look at that site that seems to be so popular even at mtf

I don't know where top women player would be in the ATP ranking but Serena has said she only wouldn't play Rafa, Fed and Santoro. Besides those three she's ready to face any other player from ATP. And I know she has beaten Andy Roddick some time ago.

When she was like 8 :shrug: Nothing really wrong with their statement though, it's just a completely different game.

And yeah, women's tennis is by far the least crappy women's sport...anyone ever try watching women's basketball? :tape:

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I know im alone here but this is not true at all

I honestly think that there are a fair number of women in the wta that could be top 50 atleast

both williams sisters, sharapova,clijsters and petrova to name a few.

You have women like sharapova and the williams sisters and petrova who can produce just as much power on the serve as the men and in some cases they produce more power then some men.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::h aha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::hah a::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
IMO, the serve is almost the smallest problem. I mean look at Nadal's serve a few years ago, it was a joke and he still won quite a few matches :lol:. It's the stamina. They just wouldn't last 5 sets... nope. and they are slower, which plus the stamina factor during rallies would just make it impossible for them to really compete with men.

i didnt say they'd last 5 sets

I believe in 3 sets some women could compete

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:24 PM
:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::h aha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::hah a::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

laugh at me all you want but i really dont care

out_here_grindin
07-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I know im alone here but this is not true at all

I honestly think that there are a fair number of women in the wta that could be top 50 atleast

both williams sisters, sharapova,clijsters and petrova to name a few.

You have women like sharapova and the williams sisters and petrova who can produce just as much power on the serve as the men and in some cases they produce more power then some men.


The players you mentioned win in the WTA because they can overpower any woman they face. But when they face an ATP player that advantage would be gone. And their variety and movement is just not nearly good enough to win when they are the ones that are overpowered

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:26 PM
are you telling me the williams sisters, sharapova or petrova couldnt overpower someone like debakker or zverev?

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:27 PM
yeah, some men would but i do not truly belive the likes of beck, zverev, debakker, chiudinelli and gimeno-traver would destroy them
Are you kidding me? Beck, Zverev and Gimeno-Traver, even though they aren't very strong on the ATP scale, would be too consistent and still be strong enough.

De Bakker's groundstrokes can be vicious (his serve even more so), so he'd destroy them. Chiudinelli's groundstrokes aren't too bad and would have more than enough bite on them.

Sofonda Cox
07-01-2010, 07:27 PM
all would be unranked

arm
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
i didnt say they'd last 5 sets

I believe in 3 sets some women could compete

well, they wouldn't get "destroyed" like some people say, but competitive?... I don't think so. :shrug:

out_here_grindin
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
are you telling me the williams sisters, sharapova or petrova couldnt overpower someone like debakker or zverev?

you ever seen DeBakker play? Or are you just pulling out names you've never seen?

Garson007
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Let's get rid of women's professional sports altogether. There's no point cause they're not as good as the men.
Yeah! :yeah: What are they doing out of the kitchen!? :mad: Get back in the kitchen, bitch! :D

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
well you all keep thinking that and i'll keep beliving what i believe

we will never know

Clydey
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
i didnt say they'd last 5 sets

I believe in 3 sets some women could compete

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
are you telling me the williams sisters, sharapova or petrova couldnt overpower someone like debakker or zverev?
De Bakker's groundstrokes can be, at times, very vicious. Zverev doesn't have the best groundstrokes, but against anyone on the WTA, he'd outplay them.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:29 PM
you ever seen DeBakker play? Or are you just pulling out names you've never seen?

i happen to be a fan of debakker and i have heard and seen every one else i metioned

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
are you telling me the williams sisters, sharapova or petrova couldnt overpower someone like debakker or zverev?

Sure, they all hit hard. Although Serena has almost taken a bit of a power serving game with not a whole lot of power on the ground. Venus' serve is erratic as hell and so are her groundies. Sharapova still can't serve. And Petrova is a wackjob.

Some of the lower ranked men's players may not look consistent, probably just because you've seen them playing against a top guy like a Federer. But against one of the women, they would look pretty dang good. Serena's serve would keep her in for a bit against poor returners, but the rest would have a major problems...

Certinfy
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
De Bakker's serve is great, and his groundstrokes are good as well. No chance for any WTA player to beat him.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
well you all keep thinking that and i'll keep beliving what i believe

we will never know
I hope they do some men vs. women matches sometime so we can settle this. De Bakker vs. Williams for example. That would be total carnage, 6-0 6-0 for De Bakker.

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
Yeah! :yeah: What are they doing out of the kitchen!? :mad: Get back in the kitchen, bitch! :D

:lol: Thank you for reminding us of that great comment :worship:

out_here_grindin
07-01-2010, 07:31 PM
i happen to be a fan of debakker and i have heard and seen every one else i metioned

then you've lost me with your reasoning

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:31 PM
laugh at me all you want but i really dont care

im sorry, i just couldnt help myself.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:32 PM
then you've lost me with your reasoning

its just what i believe you dont need to understand my reasoning

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 07:32 PM
De Bakker would lose about 2 games max against the WTA #1.

alter ego
07-01-2010, 07:32 PM
I want to see Wozniacki vs Soderling.

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:33 PM
I want to see Wozniacki vs Soderling.

:haha:

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:33 PM
I hope they do some men vs. women matches sometime so we can settle this. De Bakker vs. Williams for example. That would be total carnage, 6-0 6-0 for De Bakker.

that would be interesting but they would never allow it

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:34 PM
I want to see Wozniacki vs Soderling.
:o :haha: Soderling would oblitirate her so badly, I doubt he'd lose a single point because of Wozniacki.

out_here_grindin
07-01-2010, 07:34 PM
its just what i believe you dont need to understand my reasoning

we aren't disscusing religion here

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:35 PM
that would be interesting but they would never allow it
I know, it wouldn't very thrilling for anyone watching, and it wouldn't exactly be a good time for Williams either :help:

Clydey
07-01-2010, 07:37 PM
misty, I just posted a link describing matches in which both Williams sisters got hammered by a player ranked 200+.

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:38 PM
its just what i believe you dont need to understand my reasoning

You're digging yourself into a large hole buddy :timebomb:

JMG
07-01-2010, 07:38 PM
Bammer even lost 36 26 to Muster last year.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:38 PM
we aren't disscusing religion here

i was just stating i dont need to explain why i believe what i do to you

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:39 PM
look i dont care i belive what i said so just go on and go back to posting you scnarios and talking about whatever you were before because obviously this will be getting nowhere

Sofonda Cox
07-01-2010, 07:40 PM
look i dont care i belive what i said so just go on and go back to posting you scnarios and talking about whatever you were before because obviously this will be getting nowhere

Are your rubbish posts connected to your illness?

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 07:41 PM
Bammer even lost 36 26 to Muster last year.

And Muster lost 6-2 6-1 to Conor Niland this week :lol:

Clydey
07-01-2010, 07:41 PM
look i dont care i belive what i said so just go on and go back to posting you scnarios and talking about whatever you were before because obviously this will be getting nowhere

Are you deliberately being ignorant? Look at the link.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:41 PM
Are your rubbish posts connected to your illness?

if my posts bother you that much ignore them

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:42 PM
[QUOTE=Clydey;10115137]Are you deliberately being ignorant? Look at the link.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html[/QUOTE
already did and dont care, how long ago was that?

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:42 PM
i was just stating i dont need to explain why i believe what i do to you

Well that is true...but people who are respected are able to back up their beliefs with logical arguments.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:43 PM
at the same time does it matter what i say to explain why i believe what i do? will it make any difference to any of you?

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:44 PM
i wana see george bastl against serena williams. i bet she doesnt get a point.

out_here_grindin
07-01-2010, 07:45 PM
at the same time does it matter what i say to explain why i believe what i do? will it make any difference to any of you?

it would indicate you are a thinking tennis fan rather than just saying "I believe it because I do" That just destroys your own argument, makes it seem like you have no reasons at all.

arm
07-01-2010, 07:46 PM
Are you deliberately being ignorant? Look at the link.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

This is just precious. :worship:

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:46 PM
Are you deliberately being ignorant? Look at the link.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

this is a much better article. read it.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:47 PM
fair enough

its more that i dont belive we should just right off the women. I believe what i do because these women are good, they have power, they have great shots and i dont belive that with what they have that just any man come come along and destroy them. I have the respect for their games.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:47 PM
already did and dont care, how long ago was that?
That was when they were 18 years old I think, and they were playing good tennis on the WTA tour. Braasch drank shandies before the matches ffs and still won easily. Don't make excuses, you're talking out of your ass.

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=misty1;10115140]
That was when they were 18 years old I think, and they were playing good tennis on the WTA tour. Braasch drank shandies before the matches ffs and still won easily. Don't make excuses, you're talking out of your ass.

read the article i posted. do it.

malisha
07-01-2010, 07:49 PM
I will say though that womens tennis is a lot better than any other female sport, quality-wise.

this is wrong IMo

did you ever watched womens handball?

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:49 PM
the problem is that that was when they were teenagers

straitup
07-01-2010, 07:50 PM
fair enough

its more that i dont belive we should just right off the women. I believe what i do because these women are good, they have power, they have great shots and i dont belive that with what they have that just any man come come along and destroy them. I have the respect for their games.

No one came in to this thread claiming "Women suck"...a lot of people here hate women's tennis, not because of athletic ability or because they are worse than men, but the way they play is just too one-dimensional and boring.

malisha
07-01-2010, 07:51 PM
yeah, some men would but i do not truly belive the likes of beck, zverev, debakker, chiudinelli and gimeno-traver would destroy them

even Muster wolud beat any of top players in WTA

Muster is 42

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:51 PM
the problem is that that was when they were teenagers
you think it would make a difference if they weren't? No, it wouldn't.

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:52 PM
no but they claimed they'd be blown away i dont think thats true..not all of them anyway

Johnny Groove
07-01-2010, 07:53 PM
Serena would win a few games max.

Anyone else would be lucky to win a game or two.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 07:53 PM
no but they claimed they'd be blown away i dont think thats true..not all of them anyway
Yes, all of them would. Not even Williams or Sharapova or Petrova would overpower the men. Maybe they'd get 2 games max, but that's it.

arm
07-01-2010, 07:53 PM
fair enough

its more that i dont belive we should just right off the women. I believe what i do because these women are good, they have power, they have great shots and i dont belive that with what they have that just any man come come along and destroy them. I have the respect for their games.

Women do as much as they can! It's not magic and it's not that the men work harder! It's all physiology and anatomy of the body! :shrug:

malisha
07-01-2010, 07:53 PM
Tipsy had a awsome interview few years ago about this subject in Serbian playboy

great stuff

misty1
07-01-2010, 07:54 PM
look just stop okay? im not going to change my mind

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Yes, all of them would. Not even Williams or Sharapova or Petrova would overpower the men. Maybe they'd get 2 games max, but that's it.

did you read this article? funny innit? :haha:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533

FormerRafaFan
07-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Haha. This is hilarious, but also kinda true. The WTA sucks. The quality is just awful. I'd say #1 ranked woman in the WTA ranked 600 in the ATP is being too genereous. I mean, they can't even play a 5 setter, because it's too demanding. LMAO.

dodoboy
07-01-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm sorry but Serena's serve this year at Wimbledon would win her AT LEAST a few games!

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 08:06 PM
look just stop okay? im not going to change my mind
But how can you think that? It's mind bogglingly absurd.
did you read this article? funny innit? :haha:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533
Yeah :haha:

ShotmaKer
07-01-2010, 08:06 PM
yeah #600 is being really really generous.

DuMa
07-01-2010, 08:12 PM
i would just like to see serena try to stand on the baseline trying to return karlovic's serve.

dav abu
07-01-2010, 08:16 PM
yeah #600 is being really really generous.

Sad to say but I agree. I used to love women's tennis and do think that in a lot of ways back in the 90s especially it did hold its own against the mens in some ways BUT now oh dear :sad: it really is awful..no variety..next to no consistency..few characters/personalitites.

Smoke944
07-01-2010, 08:18 PM
TBH I think this thread confirms misty1 as a troll :lol:

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Yeah I listened to that yesterday and Henman was egging McEnroe to say something - then Murray came on and obliged us, he was just joking around.

The only thing I would say is, I wish Murray would stop hitting his 2nd serves like a woman ;)

octatennis
07-01-2010, 09:08 PM
WTA compared to ATP it is obviously inferior, but the level in itself is pretty good, right now is in a bad moment but will have a raise again.

these are all PC comments, wta and atp are benneficiating from it, more attention to them.

M4RC
07-01-2010, 09:09 PM
Serena would win 3-4 games against a TOP 100.

2 games against a TOP 50.

1 game against a TOP 10 with extreme luck (I'm including at least one netcord and one DF).

She would reach deuce ONCE (only once) against a TOP 5 playing out or her ass.

0 points against Nadal (even kicking his bottles and impersonating him between points) or Federer (including his awful sliced backhand ROS in every 2nd serve). 0 is ZERO.

EDIT. If we go to a 5-setter Serena would receive a triple bagel by the likes of Guccione.

sdtoot
07-01-2010, 09:10 PM
I just love McEnroe's expression after Muzza gives his "surprised if inside 1000" answer. He looks away and you can see he just wants to give out a huge laugh. :lol: Hilarious video.

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 09:14 PM
WTA compared to ATP it is obviously inferior, but the level in itself is pretty good, right now is in a bad moment but will have a raise again.

these are all PC comments, wta and atp are benneficiating from it, more attention to them.

You are absolutely right.

The only, only issue I have with someone like Murray making comments like this (in jest I know), is that sometimes I watch Murray play and wonder whether he's playing on the wrong tour. If I think about Mens Tennis and my favourirte players over the last 20 years - I don't consider Murray's Tennis very manly at all.

Mechlan
07-01-2010, 09:23 PM
You are absolutely right.

The only, only issue I have with someone like Murray making comments like this (in jest I know), is that sometimes I watch Murray play and wonder whether he's playing on the wrong tour. If I think about Mens Tennis and my favourirte players over the last 20 years - I don't consider Murray's Tennis very manly at all.

:confused: None of the top women play like Murray at all. They're all ballbashers. I'd love it if more women put half the thought or craft into the game that Murray does when he's playing well.

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 09:29 PM
:confused: None of the top women play like Murray at all. They're all ballbashers. I'd love it if more women put half the thought or craft into the game that Murray does when he's playing well.

I don't know. I saw Murray last year at the French Open and the Tour Championships in London so I got to observe him close up.

His shots are not heavy and his 2nd serve is very poor so often, around 80mph landing in the middle of the box. Thats why I often liken it to a womans 2nd serve (I'm sure he won't like to hear it but its bloody true.) Murray's forehand is not much of a weapon either other than hitting good passing shots.

I understand and appreciate he has other qualities but so far that hasn't been good enough for the big breakthrough. Murray also needs to play more aggressive, take the game to his opponent more often.

The other thing I have a problem with is his schoolboy attitude. In the French Open this year he was whining and carrying on all the time, especially against Berdych and Gasquet - that's not very manly at all, quite the opposite.

Lee
07-01-2010, 09:30 PM
Lindsay Davenport, former #1 women player and winner of a few slams said she could not beat her ATP-career-high-ranked 834 husband.

I believe this is true but if anyone prefer, you can file this statement under "Lindsay doesn't want to hurt her husband's ego" category.

MrChopin
07-01-2010, 09:36 PM
Serena would win 3-4 games against a TOP 100.

2 games against a TOP 50.

1 game against a TOP 10 with extreme luck...

Not a chance. It would be 0-0 for Serena against any of the top 100 except for King Oscar, who would never defeat a lady. Someone here put it well when they said "The WTA has yet to discover topspin."

***

Was it Murray that made the barely audible "Oh No..." after John said #600? I'd bet Murray wanted to say 2000 and was just being polite.

Edit: Tim's look after the caller says "Bit of a joke." :lol:

Clydey
07-01-2010, 09:40 PM
I don't know. I saw Murray last year at the French Open and the Tour Championships in London so I got to observe him close up.

His shots are not heavy and his 2nd serve is very poor so often, around 80mph landing in the middle of the box. Thats why I often liken it to a womans 2nd serve (I'm sure he won't like to hear it but its bloody true.) Murray's forehand is not much of a weapon either other than hitting good passing shots.

I understand and appreciate he has other qualities but so far that hasn't been good enough for the big breakthrough. Murray also needs to play more aggressive, take the game to his opponent more often.

The other thing I have a problem with is his schoolboy attitude. In the French Open this year he was whining and carrying on all the time, especially against Berdych and Gasquet - that's not very manly at all, quite the opposite.

Murray clearly offended you. :lol:

You don't have to be a ballbasher to play "manly" tennis. You're clearly not very bright if you think it's more feminine to use changes of pace, given that the WTA tour is populated by ballbashers.

Murray would run any WTA player ragged with just his rally forehand.

Tutu
07-01-2010, 09:41 PM
I want to see Wozniacki vs Soderling.
lolz.
misty, I just posted a link describing matches in which both Williams sisters got hammered by a player ranked 200+.
Um.. They were like 16 and 17 - barely even top 20 players on the actual WTA tour.


Anyway. As McEnroe said, it is a completely redundant argument as they ar essentially two different sports with different skill sets required to succeed in them. Of course most of the WTA players would struggle to win games but IMO the Williamses are a different story.

Mens tennis is all about holding serve. On a good serving day, it's not unlikely to suggest that the likes of the Williamses (Who serve consistently between 120-129) could push certain ATP players by the virtue of just holding serve and playing first strike/one-two punch tennis and getting to the net.

Clydey
07-01-2010, 09:42 PM
Not a chance. It would be 0-0 for Serena against any of the top 100 except for King Oscar, who would never defeat a lady. Someone here put it well when they said "The WTA has yet to discover topspin."

***

Was it Murray that made the barely audible "Oh No..." after John said #600? I'd bet Murray wanted to say 2000 and was just being polite.

Edit: Tim's look after the caller says "Bit of a joke." :lol:

Yeah, he almost let out a groan of disapproval when McEnroe suggested 600.

cardio
07-01-2010, 09:43 PM
To settle this question I think there is only one option : let women to play on ATP tour if they want and lower ranked men in WTA if they want to make some big bucks ! I think there are hundreds of male players who can swallow their macho feelings, play on WTA events against women and fellow lower ranked men, make good friends and lot of money :devil:


ATP # 1268 for Charleston champ 2011 ! I dont even know who the fuck he is, but my cristal ball tells me he can do it!

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 09:44 PM
Murray clearly offended you. :lol:

You don't have to be a ballbasher to play "manly" tennis. You're clearly not very bright if you think it's more feminine to use changes of pace, given that the WTA tour is populated by ballbashers.

Murray would run any WTA player ragged with just his rally forehand.

You stick up for your countryman. I know you alwyas like to jump in when someone says anything about your countryman.

If you enjoy watching Murray often play like a sissy then thats fine with me. Maybe you can identify with Murray's style of play (if you can call playing like a sissy a style of play).

Does Murray pay you to come on and defend him to the hilt? You must have a lot of time to spare because you must have to do that all day every day on this forum.

Tutu
07-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Haha. This is hilarious, but also kinda true. The WTA sucks. The quality is just awful. I'd say #1 ranked woman in the WTA ranked 600 in the ATP is being too genereous. I mean, they can't even play a 5 setter, because it's too demanding. LMAO.
:retard::retard::retard:

They don't play 5 setters because of tradition and timekeeping at tournaments, idiot. Not one WTA player has ever objected to 5 setters and they used to play 5 setter YEC finals which produced some great matches.

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 09:45 PM
I don't know. I saw Murray last year at the French Open and the Tour Championships in London so I got to observe him close up.

His shots are not heavy and his 2nd serve is very poor so often, around 80mph landing in the middle of the box. Thats why I often liken it to a womans 2nd serve (I'm sure he won't like to hear it but its bloody true.) Murray's forehand is not much of a weapon either other than hitting good passing shots.

I understand and appreciate he has other qualities but so far that hasn't been good enough for the big breakthrough. Murray also needs to play more aggressive, take the game to his opponent more often.

The other thing I have a problem with is his schoolboy attitude. In the French Open this year he was whining and carrying on all the time, especially against Berdych and Gasquet - that's not very manly at all, quite the opposite.

Even his rally forehand would school top WTA players. A guy like him plays tennis with variety.

If you want a player that most resembles WTA, Juan Martin Del Potro is your man, except for the muscles. Bash, bash, bash, down the middle, short ball.

Filo V.
07-01-2010, 09:46 PM
600 is the high end. I can see a couple of the women maybe winning a couple (emphasis on a couple) of games against high level ATP competition, but about 95% of the tour would lose 6-0 6-0 or 6-0 6-1.

It really doesn't matter, since the ATP tour is the ATP tour and the WTA tour is the WTA tour. It's a pretty pointless debate.

Fed Fan
07-01-2010, 09:46 PM
McEnroe and Murray are both being generous. But I agree with McEnroe's opinion that the caller's question is silly. There are biological differences between the sexes, so it is absurd to expect women to challenge men.

I think the problem must people have with the WTA is the poor standard and the similarities in playing style, not whether its players can beat those in the ATP. The WTA needs to deal with issues such as ball bashing, excessive grunting and squealing, the lack of slice shots etc.

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 09:48 PM
lolz.

Um.. They were like 16 and 17 - barely even top 20 players on the actual WTA tour.


Anyway. As McEnroe said, it is a completely redundant argument as they ar essentially two different sports with different skill sets required to succeed in them. Of course most of the WTA players would struggle to win games but IMO the Williamses are a different story.

Mens tennis is all about holding serve. On a good serving day, it's not unlikely to suggest that the likes of the Williamses (Who serve consistently between 120-129) could push certain ATP players by the virtue of just holding serve and playing first strike/one-two punch tennis and getting to the net.

No, men's tennis is not about serve. Does Nadal serve well? Still won 7 slams. Wouldn't say Del Potro and Djokovic had great serves and they won GS titles because of their ground games, not the first serve.

ORGASMATRON
07-01-2010, 09:49 PM
:retard::retard::retard:

They don't play 5 setters because of tradition and timekeeping at tournaments, idiot. Not one WTA player has ever objected to 5 setters and they used to play 5 setter YEC finals which produced some great matches.

women would never make it playing 5 setters at slam. you know it and i know it. change. your. sig. i shall not have to repeat myself again.

Tutu
07-01-2010, 09:59 PM
No, men's tennis is not about serve. Does Nadal serve well? Still won 7 slams. Wouldn't say Del Potro and Djokovic had great serves and they won GS titles because of their ground games, not the first serve.
It is. A huge emphasis is placed on having a good serve and holding it. Obviously to be the best players in the the world you have to have so much more to your game, but i'm not suggesting that Venus or Serena could beat Nadal, Djokovic or Del Potro. :lol:

On their days they serve at 120-129 mph consistently while painting the lines. They're aggressive and they come to the net whenever they can (and are very good at the net) which is obviously a leveller in terms of the physical differences between men and women. They could hold serve consistently against most non-top 50 players on the ATP.

ShotmaKer
07-01-2010, 10:03 PM
Anyway. As McEnroe said, it is a completely redundant argument as they ar essentially two different sports with different skill sets required to succeed in them.

then surely WTA≠ATP then ?

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Even his rally forehand would school top WTA players. A guy like him plays tennis with variety.

If you want a player that most resembles WTA, Juan Martin Del Potro is your man, except for the muscles. Bash, bash, bash, down the middle, short ball.

I agree with you, I have no doubt that would be the case.

I also agree Murray has great variety. But my focus is not on Murray's variety, but on Muyrray's mentality. Too often so far in the biggest matches, Murray has played extremely passive, hoping for his opponents to make mistakes, and going no where near the net to force the issue. And that 2nd serve - asking for trouble.

So my point is, if Murray wants to win the big titles, he must play more manly and claim the victory as opposed to hoping his opponent gives it to him.

Lets see how he deals with Nadal tomoorow. Last year against Roddick he handed the iniative to Roddick with passive play and was never able to get it back.

Smoke944
07-01-2010, 10:09 PM
lolz.

Um.. They were like 16 and 17 - barely even top 20 players on the actual WTA tour.


Anyway. As McEnroe said, it is a completely redundant argument as they ar essentially two different sports with different skill sets required to succeed in them. Of course most of the WTA players would struggle to win games but IMO the Williamses are a different story.

Mens tennis is all about holding serve. On a good serving day, it's not unlikely to suggest that the likes of the Williamses (Who serve consistently between 120-129) could push certain ATP players by the virtue of just holding serve and playing first strike/one-two punch tennis and getting to the net.


No, no they couldn't. Be realistic. They would be lucky to hold serve a couple times against any top-200 player. And that's being generous. They wouldn't win a single point on their second serve unless the opposing player makes a bad error or misses an easy return. So they would have to get in an abnormally high percentage of first serves. And even if they did, there's still no guarantee they'd win the points unless the serves were placed perfectly.

MrChopin
07-01-2010, 10:12 PM
On their days they serve at 120-129 mph consistently...

Wimbledon stats list Serena's average 1st serve speed for the last three matches as:

R4:
Avg 1st: 113

QF:
Avg 1st: 111

SF:
Avg 1st: 108

rocketassist
07-01-2010, 10:14 PM
I agree with you, I have no doubt that would be the case.

I also agree Murray has great variety. But my focus is not on Murray's variety, but on Muyrray's mentality. Too often so far in the biggest matches, Murray has played extremely passive, hoping for his opponents to make mistakes, and going no where near the net to force the issue. And that 2nd serve - asking for trouble.

So my point is, if Murray wants to win the big titles, he must play more manly and claim the victory as opposed to hoping his opponent gives it to him.

Lets see how he deals with Nadal tomoorow. Last year against Roddick he handed the iniative to Roddick with passive play and was never able to get it back.

He actually hit more aces and more winners than Roddick that match. Murray will go for it tomorrow as he always does vs Nadal, but will be tougher to outhit him on grass.

Clydey
07-01-2010, 10:23 PM
You stick up for your countryman. I know you alwyas like to jump in when someone says anything about your countryman.

If you enjoy watching Murray often play like a sissy then thats fine with me. Maybe you can identify with Murray's style of play (if you can call playing like a sissy a style of play).

Does Murray pay you to come on and defend him to the hilt? You must have a lot of time to spare because you must have to do that all day every day on this forum.

You really need to grow up. Playing with variety is playing like a sissy? Any ATP player would run any WTA player ragged. It's a simple fact

Tutu
07-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Wimbledon stats list Serena's average 1st serve speed for the last three matches as:

R4:
Avg 1st: 113

QF:
Avg 1st: 111

SF:
Avg 1st: 108
Her flat serve is hit around 120 consistently. But she slices out wide a lot.

Sapeod
07-01-2010, 10:29 PM
You stick up for your countryman. I know you alwyas like to jump in when someone says anything about your countryman.

If you enjoy watching Murray often play like a sissy then thats fine with me. Maybe you can identify with Murray's style of play (if you can call playing like a sissy a style of play).

Does Murray pay you to come on and defend him to the hilt? You must have a lot of time to spare because you must have to do that all day every day on this forum.
Variety is often much better than just whacking the ball, and more entertaining. Playing like a sissy? I have no words for you :retard:

NadalSharapova
07-01-2010, 10:37 PM
Variety is often much better than just whacking the ball, and more entertaining. Playing like a sissy? I have no words for you :retard:

Soderling is more entertaining and talented than mugray

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-01-2010, 11:00 PM
You stick up for your countryman. I know you alwyas like to jump in when someone says anything about your countryman.

If you enjoy watching Murray often play like a sissy then thats fine with me. Maybe you can identify with Murray's style of play (if you can call playing like a sissy a style of play).

Does Murray pay you to come on and defend him to the hilt? You must have a lot of time to spare because you must have to do that all day every day on this forum.

listen Idiot, the wta players would not have a ranking if they tried to play on the atp. Didnt you read tht Muster beat bammer??, or the williams sisters lost to futures players?

WTA SUCKS

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-01-2010, 11:01 PM
Her flat serve is hit around 120 consistently. But she slices out wide a lot.

no bloody way have you ever watched her live. Even Nemo has a way better serve than her.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-01-2010, 11:04 PM
lolz.

Um.. They were like 16 and 17 - barely even top 20 players on the actual WTA tour.


Anyway. As McEnroe said, it is a completely redundant argument as they ar essentially two different sports with different skill sets required to succeed in them. Of course most of the WTA players would struggle to win games but IMO the Williamses are a different story.

Mens tennis is all about holding serve. On a good serving day, it's not unlikely to suggest that the likes of the Williamses (Who serve consistently between 120-129) could push certain ATP players by the virtue of just holding serve and playing first strike/one-two punch tennis and getting to the net.

womens tennis would only be serve, if only they could serve. Watch Murray vs Nadal tomorrow, it wont all be about serve. Wta tards are so thick, unreal. GTFO

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 11:39 PM
listen Idiot, the wta players would not have a ranking if they tried to play on the atp. Didnt you read tht Muster beat bammer??, or the williams sisters lost to futures players?

WTA SUCKS

I'm not talking about the WTA. I know a lot of you schoolboys here have a fascination with the WTA. I have no idea why.

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 11:43 PM
Variety is often much better than just whacking the ball, and more entertaining. Playing like a sissy? I have no words for you :retard:

I know you Scottish boys like to stick up for eachother, fine with me.

But I know a lot of people would agree with me, Murray plays too passive in the latter stages of Grand Slam tournaments. Variety is not enough at the highest level, you also need power to go with the variety and so far I haven't seen it.

I hope for your sakes that Murray gets his act together tomorrow.

Clydey
07-01-2010, 11:47 PM
I know you Scottish boys like to stick up for eachother, fine with me.

But I know a lot of people would agree with me, Murray plays too passive in the latter stages of Grand Slam tournaments. Variety is not enough at the highest level, you also need power to go with the variety and so far I haven't seen it.

I hope for your sakes that Murray gets his act together tomorrow.

Murray didn't lose two slam finals because he wasn't aggressive enough. He lost them because Federer outplayed him. There's a risk of that happening when you face the greatest player to ever pick up a racquet.

NadalSharapova
07-01-2010, 11:50 PM
murray couldn't win a set in 2 matches. he was bloody awful in those slam finals

laurie-1
07-01-2010, 11:58 PM
murray couldn't win a set in 2 matches. he was bloody awful in those slam finals

Absolutely. This is what I'm referring too. If these guys wish to delude themselves that Federer was too good then thats fine.

What really happened in each final was Murray didn't come out to play, and only responded when it was too late. Handing the initiative to your opponent from the beginning is a no no if you want to win a Grand Slam tournament.

If Murray wants to win the next two matches at Wimbledon he has to impose himself from the beginning. He's a counter puncher and that's not his style. But he'll have to adapt.

Mike_Hunt
07-02-2010, 12:04 AM
Wow. The ATP mugs are obsessed with WTA just like you guys. :rolls: That's hilare.

My girl Wozniacki could take ugly Andy any day. :drool:

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 12:09 AM
Wow. The ATP mugs are obsessed with WTA just like you guys. :rolls: That's hilare.

My girl Wozniacki could take ugly Andy any day. :drool:

andy would have her for dinner. Just like every other player on the ATP tour.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 12:12 AM
I'm not talking about the WTA. I know a lot of you schoolboys here have a fascination with the WTA. I have no idea why.

who the hell do you think you are?. The only school boy here is you.

Give fed some damn credit and respect. There is a reason why fed has won 16 slams.

Mike_Hunt
07-02-2010, 12:14 AM
I'm not talking about the WTA. I know a lot of you schoolboys here have a fascination with the WTA. I have no idea why.
They know where real tennis is at.

Wolfy
07-02-2010, 12:20 AM
Who cares , it's part of the reason this two is unattractive to Women

Mechlan
07-02-2010, 01:10 AM
Absolutely. This is what I'm referring too. If these guys wish to delude themselves that Federer was too good then thats fine.

What really happened in each final was Murray didn't come out to play, and only responded when it was too late. Handing the initiative to your opponent from the beginning is a no no if you want to win a Grand Slam tournament.

If Murray wants to win the next two matches at Wimbledon he has to impose himself from the beginning. He's a counter puncher and that's not his style. But he'll have to adapt.

You quoted NadalSharapova, that's a bad start. But I'll give you the benefit of the double and answer honestly: yes, Federer played absolutely great (more at the AO this year than at the USO). I agree with your basic point that Murray needs to play more aggressively, but the losses to Federer are poor examples. Murray absolutely came ready to play and was blown away by a superior opponent at the AO.

scoobs
07-02-2010, 01:16 AM
You quoted NadalSharapova, that's a bad start. But I'll give you the benefit of the double and answer honestly: yes, Federer played absolutely great (more at the AO this year than at the USO). I agree with your basic point that Murray needs to play more aggressively, but the losses to Federer are poor examples. Murray absolutely came ready to play and was blown away by a superior opponent at the AO.
I agree with this to an extent but where I think Andy made the fatal mistake was starting complacently and assuming he could work his way into the match. He had a couple of early chances to break Roger in that final and had he done so, he could have kept Roger unsettled and under pressure. As it is, he let Roger off the hook, Roger settled right down and his best tennis started to flow. Before Andy knew it, he was 2 sets down and in a serious hole - even so, he still almost took that third set. Andy simply can't afford to start so slowly and let the best players get into their stride like that.

General Suburbia
07-02-2010, 01:16 AM
HgqbCq_sxmo

Kip
07-02-2010, 01:25 AM
Still amazes me how obsessed so many tennis men are with taking continual shots at the women.

Mechlan
07-02-2010, 01:31 AM
I agree with this to an extent but where I think Andy made the fatal mistake was starting complacently and assuming he could work his way into the match. He had a couple of early chances to break Roger in that final and had he done so, he could have kept Roger unsettled and under pressure. As it is, he let Roger off the hook, Roger settled right down and his best tennis started to flow. Before Andy knew it, he was 2 sets down and in a serious hole - even so, he still almost took that third set. Andy simply can't afford to start so slowly and let the best players get into their stride like that.

Well, I mostly agree with that, but you know what they say about hindsight. Andy had chances in the first set, sure, but Federer broke and Murray broke right back. So it wasn't all bad. He couldn't capitalize on a couple of chances later in the set and lost it as a result, but that's not terribly unusual, those are the peaks and valleys in the game. But in the second set, JesusFed decided to come play, and the set was basically over before Murray knew what hit him. Compare that to Del Potro at the USO. Similar scenario, Federer came out strong, won the first set, though he didn't play spectacularly, was leading in the second, and then mysteriously fell apart and somehow lost the second set. And a Federer up 2-0 is a much different beast than a Federer at 1-1. Murray to his credit gave a good fight in that third set and a couple of points decided it in Federer's favor. I think it's one of those matches that looks a lot worse in scoreline than it actually was. And I don't think Andy played poorly by any means, or that he lost because he was overly passive.

Edit: just re-read your post and I think I said pretty much what you did. :p

Clydey
07-02-2010, 01:33 AM
I agree with this to an extent but where I think Andy made the fatal mistake was starting complacently and assuming he could work his way into the match. He had a couple of early chances to break Roger in that final and had he done so, he could have kept Roger unsettled and under pressure. As it is, he let Roger off the hook, Roger settled right down and his best tennis started to flow. Before Andy knew it, he was 2 sets down and in a serious hole - even so, he still almost took that third set. Andy simply can't afford to start so slowly and let the best players get into their stride like that.

I certainly agree with that. He can be far too casual at the start of big matches, almost as if he wants to give off the impression that he doesn't feel the early stages of the match are significant. There needs to be a greater sense of urgency. Acting nonchalant won't cut it.

MrChopin
07-02-2010, 01:42 AM
I certainly agree with that. He can be far too casual at the start of big matches, almost as if he wants to give off the impression that he doesn't feel the early stages of the match are significant. There needs to be a greater sense of urgency. Acting nonchalant won't cut it.

He didn't act nonchalant in the Nadal QF at AO, those clutch S&V points, crushing the CC BH. Fed had a pretty rotten AO up until that final, so I don't think Andy was that off to come in and play defensively, however it was pretty clear early on that Fed's CC BH was clicking unlike it had been, he was moving aggressively and hitting DTL occasionally off both FH and BH.

***

The more I watch this video, the more hilarious it is. It's the biggest PC question in tennis, and like the caller says, we all know it's second rate. Then McEnroe's grimace at 0:12, Tim's "oooh" at 0:15, McEnroe trying to deflect at 0:23, the look McEnroe shoots Henman after he says "#600", Tim trying to cut it off and keep Murray from answering, Tim pulling away as Murray begins to reveal his answer, Murray's monotonous and metered response...

croat123
07-02-2010, 01:45 AM
the problem is that, even at the futures level, top WTA player would either struggle to get any returns in or be way outmatched from the baseline.
Dino Marcan is ranked 999 and there is no way a WTA player could beat him--he won a junior slam

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Ohhh they are just homophobic and sexist haters!!! Murray knows damn well Serena could beat the shit outta him if she wanted!!!! Cant believe this ATP mug Federer is getting the same prize money as Venus did!!

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 01:51 AM
Still amazes me how obsessed so many tennis men are with taking continual shots at the women.

They all hate women cus they hav abandonment issues with all their mothers leaving their baby asses and now they hate women and cant form meaningful or lasting relationships with womena nd they resort to targeting the epicentre of eqaulity, the WTA!

Clydey
07-02-2010, 01:53 AM
He didn't act nonchalant in the Nadal QF at AO, those clutch S&V points, crushing the CC BH. Fed had a pretty rotten AO up until that final, so I don't think Andy was that off to come in and play defensively, however it was pretty clear early on that Fed's CC BH was clicking unlike it had been, he was moving aggressively and hitting DTL occasionally off both FH and BH.



No, but as I recall there was something leading up to that final about Murray needing to win the opening set. His whole attitude on court in that first set suggested that he was trying to make a point. He usually looks pissed of when he wastes breakpoint chances. For some reason he looked like he didn't give a shit about not going up a break in the first set. I'd just prefer to see some urgency from the start of the match, particulary if you choose to receive (as he does) at the start of the match and face scoreboard pressure if you don't break early.

jadey
07-02-2010, 01:56 AM
Ohhh they are just homophobic and sexist haters!!! Murray knows damn well Serena could beat the shit outta him if she wanted!!!! Cant believe this ATP mug Federer is getting the same prize money as Venus did!!

Serena could beat the shit out of Murray :haha: highly doubt that

Kip
07-02-2010, 01:57 AM
They all hate women cus they hav abandonment issues with all their mothers leaving their baby asses and now they hate women and cant form meaningful or lasting relationships with womena nd they resort to targeting the epicentre of eqaulity, the WTA!

Must be.

It's as if they have to prove they are "men" by tearing down women.

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 01:58 AM
Federers Mate here stirring up some scurry shit, love you babe!!!!

Dyraise
07-02-2010, 03:17 AM
Gianni Mina, 658 sinles ranking. :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
07-02-2010, 03:30 AM
These guys were being kind. Serena has enough problems with her hitting partner Sascha and she has said that herself and he only played a few Futures events.

MIMIC
07-02-2010, 04:01 AM
this is a much better article. read it.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533

Classic line from the article:

Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint.

:worship:

Action Jackson
07-02-2010, 04:05 AM
Classic line from the article:

Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint.

:worship:

I was at that match, it was so hilarious.

Kip
07-02-2010, 04:13 AM
Sad thing what insecurity produces in people.

One would hope that men whom claim physical superiority as just 'laws of nature' would then be secure in themselves.
Otherwise, is it themselves they are actually trying to convince by stroking their egos at the expense of the sex they already factually claim in general as physically inferior?

MrChopin
07-02-2010, 04:16 AM
Classic line from the article:

Serena fell 6-1, Venus 6-2. They played as intensely as they could, while Braasch performed with gentlemanly restraint.

:worship:

Another one:

For Braasch, it was a joke. He never even considered the possibility he might be ridiculed by the other men players if he lost.

"Everyone knew that there's no chance for them," he said. "They were talking to me, that I should go out and beat them by as much as possible. They said make it 24 points and go off the court."

Johnny Groove
07-02-2010, 04:20 AM
Sad thing what insecurity produces in people.

One would hope that men whom claim physical superiority as just 'laws of nature' would then be secure in themselves.
Otherwise, is it themselves they are actually trying to convince by stroking their egos at the expense of the sex they already factually claim in general as physically inferior?

Who says it is insecurity?

It is obvious that women are physically inferior to men when it comes to the realm of professional tennis. I and many others find it to be a joke that WTA and ATP players are paid the same.

Kip
07-02-2010, 04:28 AM
Who says it is insecurity?

It is obvious that women are physically inferior to men when it comes to the realm of professional tennis. I and many others find it to be a joke that WTA and ATP players are paid the same.

They do by their actions.

Usually people whom are secure in themselves do not feel the need to trash others. It begs the question that if you are what you say you are, what purpose does continually bashing another do for you except stroke your own fragile ego.

And please stop with the tired excuse of pay. If people like MacEnroe others past and present were
truly concerned, they would be moved to action not simply content to sit and whine.

You simply get a leader on the ATP Tour to step up and make demands and/or compromises.
i.e. Best of 5 for all, best of 3 for all, or a combination. Simple as that.

And as I've said before the men played best of 3 all year long except for the Slams. And playing best of 5 for all at Slams cannot work within the confines of a two week period. Hence, either make if all best of 3 or best of 3 up until a certain round and then all play best of 5 the rest of they way.

Bottom line being, if their is a problem, solve it!
But please stop the whining if you won't do anything about it!

Johnny Groove
07-02-2010, 04:37 AM
They do by their actions.

Usually people whom are secure in themselves do not feel the need to trash others. It begs the question that if you are what you say you are, what purpose does continually bashing another do for you except stroke your own fragile ego.

And please stop with the tired excuse of pay. If people like MacEnroe others past and present were
truly concerned, they would be moved to action not simply content to sit and whine.

You simply get a leader on the ATP Tour to step up and make demands and/or compromises.
i.e. Best of 5 for all, best of 3 for all, or a combination. Simple as that.

And as I've said before the men played best of 3 all year long except for the Slams. And playing best of 5 for all at Slams cannot work within the confines of a two week period. Hence, either make if all best of 3 or best of 3 up until a certain round and then all play best of 5 the rest of they way.

Bottom line being, if their is a problem, solve it!
But please stop the whining if you won't do anything about it!

Believe me, if this hasn't been settled by the time I am playing, I'll be the one to step up.

The problem is that men don't want to say what everyone is thinking. Think about it. If tomorrow, Andy Murray is asked a question about this video and he goes into depth about the subject, he is going to be labeled as the biggest sexist of all time by some people and a hero by other people.

That's also why nobody stepped up when Venus was pushing for equal pay, not wanting to be labeled sexist. I'll give her credit, Venus played the sexist card well to get that extra bank.

We can't have the women playing 5 sets at slams for a variety of reasons. My solution is to repeal equal pay.

straitup
07-02-2010, 04:55 AM
Sad thing what insecurity produces in people.

One would hope that men whom claim physical superiority as just 'laws of nature' would then be secure in themselves.
Otherwise, is it themselves they are actually trying to convince by stroking their egos at the expense of the sex they already factually claim in general as physically inferior?

It's not like they're just saying this out of the blue...people asked them a question. Sure, maybe it doesn't come across as kind, but they're just being honest :shrug: . Then the role of a tennis forum is to discuss and debate tennis results and news...this is news because it came from 2 male tennis players. There's no ego-stroking going on.

Kip
07-02-2010, 04:56 AM
Believe me, if this hasn't been settled by the time I am playing, I'll be the one to step up.

The problem is that men don't want to say what everyone is thinking. Think about it. If tomorrow, Andy Murray is asked a question about this video and he goes into depth about the subject, he is going to be labeled as the biggest sexist of all time by some people and a hero by other people.

That's also why nobody stepped up when Venus was pushing for equal pay, not wanting to be labeled sexist. I'll give her credit, Venus played the sexist card well to get that extra bank.

We can't have the women playing 5 sets at slams for a variety of reasons. My solution is to repeal equal pay.

Sorry, sounds like nothing but an excuse to me.

Please tell me what is sexist about men and women both playing best of 5 or 3 and being payed equally? Absolutely nothing. If anything it shows that unlike Venus Williams on the WTA Tour their is no real leader on the ATP Tour that is willing to step up, speak out, and open themselves up to possible criticism(as she was) to speak on a subject they feel strongly about. And Venus Williams didn't have to shout anyone down or berate anyone to do it.

And you by saying "We can't have the women playing 5 sets at slams for a variety of reasons",
starts any hope for a true conversation and change in a negative tone and direction. They once said women couldn't run marathons for a "variety of reasons" and yet they did and are. Do men get to decide what a woman is and is not capable of and then decry something they themselves put in place to have restrictions on her?

Again, if the men are not willing to come to the table and hammer out what is fair in a compromise then they will be stuck with what they have.

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 05:01 AM
Does anyone else see the humor in this discussion? The women are making as much as money as the men just because they're female. There's the sexism. Not on the merit of their tennis or the amount of money they bring in, but because they have tits.

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:05 AM
It's not like they're just saying this out of the blue...people asked them a question. Sure, maybe it doesn't come across as kind, but they're just being honest :shrug: . Then the role of a tennis forum is to discuss and debate tennis results and news...this is news because it came from 2 male tennis players. There's no ego-stroking going on.

I disagree.

Yet, at the very least then I would say they falter for simply not being perceptive and savvy enough to realize that to start out by calling someone's livelihood a "joke" and then continue to participate in this tripe when we know the response some are looking for is in order to cause unwanted drama.

And it obviously is I feel ego stroking if you continue to beat a dead horse. The men know they are by nature in general physically superior to women. Therefore, what else does the question need to be brought up for if not to stroke the ego?

emotion
07-02-2010, 05:07 AM
Probably about right, really

Spadea vs williams exo. Now.

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:10 AM
Does anyone else see the humor in this discussion? The women are making as much as money as the men just because they're female. There's the sexism. Not on the merit of their tennis or the amount of money they bring in, but because they have tits.

Or the humor in wanting to deny someone just because they are "female" and have "tits"?

Speaking strictly of on-court wealth.

The men play best of 3 all year long, except for Slams. And who said the women cannot do the same? I do recall both Navratilova and V.Williams saying women would be glad to play best of 5 like the men. Yet, whom is it that won't bite?

Simple solutions and yet the majority seems to rather make it complicated. Yet, maybe one day common sense will reign supreme and such issues will be handled properly, being much ado about nothing.

thegreendestiny
07-02-2010, 05:12 AM
pffffttt, Serena, Venus and Maria can all thrash Gilles Simon on bad days. :shrug:

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 05:13 AM
Or the humor in wanting to deny someone just because they are "female" and have "tits"?Did you read my post? My reasoning for women not earning equal pay is because they can't play tennis and they don't bring in as much money.

The standard of pay in tennis was set by the ATP and now the women are demanding the same amount on the grounds of being female.

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 05:15 AM
I don't give a shit about the best of five discussion. Women don't bring is as much money as men and therefore have no right to equal pay.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:20 AM
Must be.

It's as if they have to prove they are "men" by tearing down women.

are you out of your mind. I hate the Wta, because the quality is appauling, they attract tiny crowds compared to the men and they think they have a right to equal prize-money well they dont. If someone like Montanes was in wta he would wip the floor with them and get paid same amount as fed and co, and that is not right. It has nothing to do with Women in general, the women on the wta bar ivanovic,kiri and a few others are but ugly anyway. ;).

You are Insane

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:22 AM
Did you read my post? My reasoning for women not earning equal pay is because they can't play tennis and they don't bring in as much money.

The standard of pay in tennis was set by the ATP and now the women are demanding the same amount on the grounds of being female.

In the words of J.Mac, "You cannot be serious!" :lol:

So we disregard women because they cannot play like the "men" and produce what "you" and others like yourself see as "tennis". And if we go by the Top of the WTA Tour being 600-1000 on the ATP Tour, Serena, Venus, Maria, Justine, Kim, & Co. could not generate the type of money their counterparts of the ATP(600-1000) would. Do I have that right?

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:23 AM
I don't give a shit about the best of five discussion. Women don't bring is as much money as men and therefore have no right to equal pay.

exactly, the women cant play better tennis than the men, so why should they earn equal pay, becuase they will claim its sexist?

The people imo defending the issue, are ugly women who cant get boyfriends and have zero social skills, therefore they defend the wta players (who are in the same situation). They are also terrible at sport and are jelous of the men in that regard. Quite frankly its sad. Hey as a 20 turing 21 yo guy i will admit that my ex was better at cooking, and maybe horse riding, but im not going to bitch about it, am i.

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:24 AM
are you out of your mind. I hate the Wta, because the quality is appauling, they attract tiny crowds compared to the men and they think they have a right to equal prize-money well they dont. If someone like Montanes was in wta he would wip the floor with them and get paid same amount as fed and co, and that is not right. It has nothing to do with Women in general, the women on the wta bar ivanovic,kiri and a few others are but ugly anyway. ;).

You are Insane

And in a nutshell, why things will remain as is. Hope it serves you well.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:25 AM
In the words of J.Mac, "You cannot be serious!" :lol:

So we disregard women because they cannot play like the "men" and produce what "you" and others like yourself see as "tennis". And if we go by the Top of the WTA Tour being 600-1000 on the ATP Tour, Serena, Venus, Maria, Justine, Kim, & Co. could not generate the type of money their counterparts of the ATP(600-1000) would. Do I have that right?

Yes eactly, why should the women be paid the same if they are not good enough. maybe the 600-1200 atp players should be paid the same as serena and venus?, seeing as they are of the the same capability, have you ever thought about that?

who are you Micky Lawler?

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:26 AM
I don't give a shit about the best of five discussion. Women don't bring is as much money as men and therefore have no right to equal pay.

Call me when the ATP Tour(600-1000) have the (off-court) bank balance of Venus, Serena, Maria, Kim, Justine, and heck even Anna Kournikova!

Junkyard Racket
07-02-2010, 05:30 AM
The men play best of 3 all year long, except for Slams. And whom said the women cannot do the same? I do recall both Navratilova and V.Williams saying women would be glad to play best of 5 like the men. Yet, whom is it that won't bite?

If the women REALLY wish to play best-of-five like the men, then why don't they push for it? Why don't they threaten to boycott if they don't get what they want like they did during the prize money fight?

The women are conspicuous in their silence on this issue.

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 05:30 AM
I don't see what's funny about my argument.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:34 AM
If the women REALLY wish to play best-of-five like the men, then why don't they push for it? Why don't they threaten to boycott if they don't get what they want like they did during the prize money fight?

The women are conspicuous in their silence on this issue.

Henin had a little bitch to the organisers that the women had to play after the men on rla this year. Typical isnt it. The posters who are defending the wta right now, are probably just like henin in person

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:35 AM
TBH I think this thread confirms misty1 as a troll :lol:

and Tutu and kip

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:36 AM
Yes eactly, why should the women be paid the same if they are not good enough. maybe the 600-1200 atp players should be paid the same as serena and venus?, seeing as they are of the the same capability, have you ever thought about that?

who are you Micky Lawler?

Am I too conclude then you'd simply be in favor of having no male vs. male, female vs. female tour?

That despite the laws of nature that men are naturally in general physically superior, it would still be better to have males and females play together than be separate while playing the game of tennis on equal standing and be paid on equal standing?

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:36 AM
Serena could beat the shit out of Murray :haha: highly doubt that
he is just trolling. nothing unusual though, seeing as tough he is a fan of the wta ;)

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:36 AM
If the women REALLY wish to play best-of-five like the men, then why don't they push for it? Why don't they threaten to boycott if they don't get what they want like they did during the prize money fight?

The women are conspicuous in their silence on this issue.

Why don't the men?

Or are they content to piss and moan while doing nothing?

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 05:36 AM
Call me when the ATP Tour(600-1000) have the (off-court) bank balance of Venus, Serena, Maria, Kim, Justine, and heck even Anna Kournikova!Serena plays 4 tournaments in a year and lies on the beach for the rest of it then goes on to earn infinitely more than a male player ranked 1,000 that would routine her 2 & 2. That's the unjust imbalance that occurs when you segregate sports by gender.

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:37 AM
and Tutu and kip

Try again.

Sorry that being on a board speaking in favor of men and women being as equal as is possible
makes me worthy of being a troll. And I guess one since 03' when I joined.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:37 AM
Am I too conclude then you'd simply be in favor of having no male vs. male, female vs. female tour?

That despite the laws of nature that men are naturally in general physically superior, it would still be better to have males and females play together than be separate while playing the game of tennis on equal standing and be paid on equal standing?

actually i am saying the wta players dont deserve to be paid the same as the atp players. Quite simple really

Action Jackson
07-02-2010, 05:40 AM
actually i am saying the wta players dont deserve to be paid the same as the atp players. Quite simple really

Of course not.

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:43 AM
Serena plays 4 tournaments in a year and lies on the beach for the rest of it then goes on to earn infinitely more than a male player ranked 1,000 that would routine her 2 & 2. That's the unjust imbalance that occurs when you segregate sports by gender.

Embellishing a bit. :)

So Serena should suffer because she only really gets up for Slams, and is good enough to do that?

So is it just underlying bitterness and resentment? And wanting men whom have a physical advantage in general to women by nature; to easily beat women(whom they are superior to) and collect on it?

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:44 AM
Of course not.

i meant the post i had written was easy to understand as my opinion is that wta does not desreve equal payment to the mne. Jesus

Kip
07-02-2010, 05:46 AM
actually i am saying the wta players dont deserve to be paid the same as the atp players. Quite simple really

i.e. No sense in me continuing this with you because I would just be wasting my
breathe because you have no interest in except wanting what you want? :cool:

I can take a hint. ;)

Junkyard Racket
07-02-2010, 05:51 AM
Why don't the men?

Or are they content to piss and moan while doing nothing?

Why don't the women?

Or are they content to just fight for equality when it's convenient for them to do so?

You have to admit, it is a bit disingenuous of the WTA players to cry for equality when it comes to getting more bank, yet hide behind the tournament organizers when somebody brings up women playing best-of-five ("Oh, we'd like to play best-of-five, but the tournament won't let us.").

The tournament didn't want to give them equal prize money either. The WTA players had to fight for it and, eventually, the tournament caved to the pressure. If women like Venus Williams REALLY wanted to play best-of-five, they could apply the same kind of pressure and get the tournament to give it to them. The reason why they don't fight for it is because they don't want it. Bottom line.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 05:52 AM
i.e. No sense in me continuing this with you because I would just be wasting my
breathe because you have no interest in except wanting what you want? :cool:

I can take a hint. ;)

obviously not, because you are still posting here.

Once you finally admit that the wta sucks, and the players dont deserve to paid the same as the atp players. Then yes

FlavorNuts
07-02-2010, 06:03 AM
And wanting men whom have a physical advantage in general to women by nature; to easily beat women(whom they are superior to) and collect on it?I don't want men to earn more, I want the best players to earn more. I'm not the sexist one, you are.

Africans are physically superior to other races, why don't the other races branch off into a seperate organization and demand equal pay? Because sports are about finding the best athletes, not about being politically correct.

Women are using their gender to earn a pay cheque they don't deserve.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 06:09 AM
just watched the vid again.

Andy Murray could not have spoken truer words. I will be definately rooting for him to beat Rafa

Mechlan
07-02-2010, 07:33 AM
I don't want men to earn more, I want the best players to earn more. I'm not the sexist one, you are.

Africans are physically superior to other races, why don't the other races branch off into a seperate organization and demand equal pay? Because sports are about finding the best athletes, not about being politically correct.

Women are using their gender to earn a pay cheque they don't deserve.

Tell me you're joking. Do you really think that the difference between males and females is comparable to the difference between different races?

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-02-2010, 07:56 AM
wta tards are completely missing the point. This NOT comparing men and women, you are acting sexist if you think so. It is comparing mens tennis players and women tennis players. I repeat THIS IS NOT COMPARING MEN AND WOMEN, it is comparing mens tennis players and womens teniis players. My God.

Langers
07-02-2010, 07:59 AM
Murray. :haha: :yeah:

Purple Rainbow
07-02-2010, 08:08 AM
i happen to be a fan of debakker and i have heard and seen every one else i metioned

If you are a fan, the least you could do is spell his name correctly.
Oh, and if you hold down Shift while typing a letter, you can use capitals. Try it, it's brilliant!

arm
07-02-2010, 08:10 AM
I don't give a shit about the best of five discussion. Women don't bring is as much money as men and therefore have no right to equal pay.

Sorry, but from my experience, this is bullsh*it. Believe it or not, my friends who know that I like and follow tennis almost always come to me to talk about wta, NOT ATP. (They get disappointed afterwards when I tell them I don't follow :lol:) I have only been to a tournamnet my whole life (Madrid 2009 and 2010) and I have to admit that there it the was boys that were having more atention from the crowds, but there's a reason for that: spaniards being spaniards, have to be fanatic for their own, and currently their biggest stars are men not women. But I'd risk saying that wta is a bit more popular than atp, and the gap is not bigger because of the "nadals and federers" that we currently have.

oh and let's not forget when our sports channel all decide to show some wta girl I've never seen instead of guys like Murray or Djokovic.

And well, for some reason wtaworld has way more members and posts, no? :lol:

gusavo
07-02-2010, 09:20 AM
And Muster lost 6-2 6-1 to Conor Niland this week :lol:
whats his rank

ShotmaKer
07-02-2010, 11:55 AM
wanting men to play best of 3 at slams to justify the equal pay is plain absurd though. that'll be the day i stop watching tennis.

Sauletekis
07-02-2010, 12:04 PM
I think the WTA 600-1000 would destroyed Rogie, right now...:devil:

Allegretto
07-02-2010, 12:11 PM
Henman looks like he's had a few too many glasses of Pimm's.

scoobs
07-02-2010, 12:51 PM
lucky bastard.

pimms is amazing.

Action Jackson
07-02-2010, 01:14 PM
Sorry, but from my experience, this is bullsh*it.


The ATP has a greater prizemoney pool, ie their events are richer overall therefore they earn more through this than the WTA.

If the WTA had more sponsors, greater ticket revenue, higher TV broadcasting rates this would be reflected in they would have greater overall prizemoney than the ATP, but they don't therefore your comment is bullshit on a global scale.

FormerRafaFan
07-02-2010, 01:55 PM
I don't think there should be equal price money, at least not in the slams. The women can't play 5 setters like the men, which is obviously much more tough.

Johnny Groove
07-02-2010, 03:54 PM
Sorry, sounds like nothing but an excuse to me.

Please tell me what is sexist about men and women both playing best of 5 or 3 and being payed equally? Absolutely nothing. If anything it shows that unlike Venus Williams on the WTA Tour their is no real leader on the ATP Tour that is willing to step up, speak out, and open themselves up to possible criticism(as she was) to speak on a subject they feel strongly about. And Venus Williams didn't have to shout anyone down or berate anyone to do it.

And you by saying "We can't have the women playing 5 sets at slams for a variety of reasons",
starts any hope for a true conversation and change in a negative tone and direction. They once said women couldn't run marathons for a "variety of reasons" and yet they did and are. Do men get to decide what a woman is and is not capable of and then decry something they themselves put in place to have restrictions on her?

Again, if the men are not willing to come to the table and hammer out what is fair in a compromise then they will be stuck with what they have.

The women don't want to play 5 sets. If we had an experimental 5 set US Open this year where all the women played best of 5, the complaints from everyone about the length of time of the WTA chokefests as well as the low quality would be deafening.

It is bad enough waiting 3 hours for a women's match to end, could you imagine waiting 5? :o

Look at it this way. If you worked at a job for 4 hours while another person worked 2 hours and you both got paid the same amount, would you be pissed?

I don't give a shit about the best of five discussion. Women don't bring is as much money as men and therefore have no right to equal pay.

Yep.

Sorry, but from my experience, this is bullsh*it. Believe it or not, my friends who know that I like and follow tennis almost always come to me to talk about wta, NOT ATP. (They get disappointed afterwards when I tell them I don't follow :lol:) I have only been to a tournamnet my whole life (Madrid 2009 and 2010) and I have to admit that there it the was boys that were having more atention from the crowds, but there's a reason for that: spaniards being spaniards, have to be fanatic for their own, and currently their biggest stars are men not women. But I'd risk saying that wta is a bit more popular than atp, and the gap is not bigger because of the "nadals and federers" that we currently have.

oh and let's not forget when our sports channel all decide to show some wta girl I've never seen instead of guys like Murray or Djokovic.

And well, for some reason wtaworld has way more members and posts, no? :lol:

So your friends are your evidence? Not a big enough sample. Action Jackson put it well:

The ATP has a greater prizemoney pool, ie their events are richer overall therefore they earn more through this than the WTA.

If the WTA had more sponsors, greater ticket revenue, higher TV broadcasting rates this would be reflected in they would have greater overall prizemoney than the ATP, but they don't therefore your comment is bullshit on a global scale.

Nothing more to add, really.

arm
07-02-2010, 04:04 PM
whatever really :lol:

and btw, just because I give an example it doesn't mean that I base my opinions in that, no? :scratch:

Orka_n
07-02-2010, 04:09 PM
Murray. :haha: :yeah:This. :tennis:

Andy's reaction to Mac's "I'm gonna say 600" is hilarious. "No, no..." in the background :haha:

Johnny Groove
07-02-2010, 04:37 PM
whatever really :lol:

and btw, just because I give an example it doesn't mean that I base my opinions in that, no? :scratch:

If you don't plan on basing your opinion on your example, why give the example? :p

Humerus
07-02-2010, 04:42 PM
I love how pissed off people get about the WTA on this forum:inlove:.

Rafaspin
07-02-2010, 04:48 PM
There is quite a few woman running around on the WTA that have something Murray does not have - a GS title.

Until he does, he should shut up.

rocketassist
07-02-2010, 04:49 PM
There is quite a few woman running around on the WTA that have something Murray does not have - a GS title.

Until he does, he should shut up.

:haha: in a tour equivalent to the men's wheelchair tour!

Serenidad
07-02-2010, 05:41 PM
It is. A huge emphasis is placed on having a good serve and holding it. Obviously to be the best players in the the world you have to have so much more to your game, but i'm not suggesting that Venus or Serena could beat Nadal, Djokovic or Del Potro. :lol:

On their days they serve at 120-129 mph consistently while painting the lines. They're aggressive and they come to the net whenever they can (and are very good at the net) which is obviously a leveller in terms of the physical differences between men and women. They could hold serve consistently against most non-top 50 players on the ATP.

Venus and Serena have never served consistently 120+

Both of their hitting partners have said they have never had any problems beating either of them ever. They would never hold serve consistently against most ATP players outside of the Top 50. Venus second serve would get absolutely trashed and they would both be helpless off the ground.

Shut the hell up and stop fanboying.

wolves_fan
07-02-2010, 06:04 PM
whats funnier is seeing Murray flop again right now

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Cant believe that mug Murray is getting the same prize money as Pironkova, at least she won a set.

laurie-1
07-02-2010, 10:50 PM
whats funnier is seeing Murray flop again right now

I was at wimbledon this evening. As I said yesterday - that Murray 2nd serve (:smash:)

I maintain, if Murray insists on hittng 2nd serves like that (a woman?) Then he's not best placed to make comments.

I said yesterday (some guys didn't want to hear it) variety without power cannot deliver a Grand Slam title. The best have variety and the power.

Accept the facts.

Smoke944
07-02-2010, 11:02 PM
I was at wimbledon this evening. As I said yesterday - that Murray 2nd serve (:smash:)

I maintain, if Murray insists on hittng 2nd serves like that (a woman?) Then he's not best placed to make comments.

I said yesterday (some guys didn't want to hear it) variety without power cannot deliver a Grand Slam title. The best have variety and the power.

Accept the facts.

So because Murray has a weak second serve he can't make comments about players that he could almost golden set? Explain this one to me.....

laurie-1
07-02-2010, 11:40 PM
So because Murray has a weak second serve he can't make comments about players that he could almost golden set? Explain this one to me.....

Its bloody obvious.

laurie-1
07-02-2010, 11:44 PM
Its quite noble how many people stick up for Murray. He's 6 ft 3 tall and plays Tennis as if he's 5 ft 7 tall.

With his height and athleticism he should be playing a stronger game.

There is nothing more to say, I'm wasting my time if people can't see this. The proof is in the pudding as he keeps failing in the biggest moments of his career so thats it now.

If Murray wants to win a Grand Slam title, he has to adapt his game.

Sapeod
07-02-2010, 11:49 PM
Cant believe that mug Murray is getting the same prize money as Pironkova, at least she won a set.
:retard: And still they both played 3 sets :rolleyes:

Smoke944
07-02-2010, 11:52 PM
Its bloody obvious.

You are crossing into troll territory now :D

Make a remarkably idiotic statement and back it up with "Its bloody obvious."
Fantastic.

Its quite noble how many people stick up for Murray. He's 6 ft 3 tall and plays Tennis as if he's 5 ft 7 tall.

With his height and athleticism he should be playing a stronger game.

There is nothing more to say, I'm wasting my time if people can't see this. The proof is in the pudding as he keeps failing in the biggest moments of his career so thats it now.

If Murray wants to win a Grand Slam title, he has to adapt his game.

You are clearly biased against him. Should he be playing more aggressively? Yes. But it's easy for you to say that behind your keyboard. Not easy for him to do it against one of the best to ever pick up a racket.

Chiakifug
07-02-2010, 11:55 PM
:retard: And still they both played 3 sets :rolleyes:

And Pironkova won one of them!!

laurie-1
07-03-2010, 12:01 AM
You are crossing into troll territory now :D

Make a remarkably idiotic statement and back it up with "Its bloody obvious."
Fantastic.



You are clearly biased against him. Should he be playing more aggressively? Yes. But it's easy for you to say that behind your keyboard. Not easy for him to do it against one of the best to ever pick up a racket.

Yeah, yeah yeah.

Now you're saying he played the best player ever to opick up a racquet - implying Murray had no chance from the off.

Berdych and Soderling managed to do just that (play aggressive). Also, interesting you actually agree with but call it an idiotic statement. You seem as confused as Murray.

I think a lot of you guys cannot handle a different point of view. Some of you guys here are pretty soft and then wheel out phrases like "idiotic" to attempt to justify yourselves.

I'll say it again, the proof is in the pudding - Murray got hammered, again.

Clydey
07-03-2010, 12:13 AM
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Now you're saying he played the best player ever to opick up a racquet - implying Murray had no chance from the off.

Berdych and Soderling managed to do just that (play aggressive). Also, interesting you actually agree with but call it an idiotic statement. You seem as confused as Murray.

I think a lot of you guys cannot handle a different point of view. Some of you guys here are pretty soft and then wheel out phrases like "idiotic" to attempt to justify yourselves.

I'll say it again, the proof is in the pudding - Murray got hammered, again.

Wow, you've really gone off the deep end. You need to be in the ACC this year.

tennishero
07-03-2010, 12:16 AM
i would say 2000, maybe williams would get a win out of some mugs.

Sapeod
07-03-2010, 12:17 AM
And Pironkova won one of them!!
And? They both played 3 sets...

sammy01
07-03-2010, 12:21 AM
murray has enough game, he just needs to be braver and know what to do at the important moments. today he was more than competitive with nadal untill the big points.

as for the actual thread, why bother comparing, we all know men and stronger thats life.

rocketassist
07-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Now you're saying he played the best player ever to opick up a racquet - implying Murray had no chance from the off.

Berdych and Soderling managed to do just that (play aggressive). Also, interesting you actually agree with but call it an idiotic statement. You seem as confused as Murray.

I think a lot of you guys cannot handle a different point of view. Some of you guys here are pretty soft and then wheel out phrases like "idiotic" to attempt to justify yourselves.

I'll say it again, the proof is in the pudding - Murray got hammered, again.

He attacked, but didn't execute well enough. There are so many arrogant Brits who just put him and Tim, and Greg down when they've done our country proud for years.

Sapeod
07-03-2010, 12:43 AM
Women get the same amount of money for playing 3 sets. Men play 5 sets and get the same as them. Isner gets the same amount of money as the women who lost in the 1st round even though he played over 13 hours. Terrible. Women should get less money because they do less.

rocketassist
07-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Yes, prove me wrong with that little gem of intellect. :spit:

You are wrong. The ATP players should be paid more, because their tour brings in more revenue, more sponsors and advertisements and their tournaments are always more populated.

It's certain if they took the WTA event out of Wimbledon, they would probably still make a profit every year and survive on the ATP event alone, whereas if they removed the ATP tournament, the tourney would die.

It's not a gender issue. I worked in a charity shop two years ago. The female supervisor was paid more, and rightly so, as she was more senior than I.

njnetswill
07-03-2010, 01:11 AM
There was a time when women's tennis was a bigger draw than the men.

In general, the quality of the men's tour is much better. But discounting women's athletics because they can't compete with the men is a horrible thing to do. I have a younger sister who is picking up the game right now and she really enjoys it. Seeing the sexist comments on this board further emphasizes the importance of having women's athletics and having it be given the support that it has in sports like tennis.

tennis elbow
07-03-2010, 01:37 AM
There was a time when women's tennis was a bigger draw than the men.



This is a myth, the WTA tour never outdrew the ATP in attendance or earnings, and proof of that is that throughout the Open era, ATP non-Slam events have always had higher prize money due to stronger sponsorship and paying expectators. During the 90's and 2000's, a string of WTA players raised to stardom status and their overall earnings started to exceed those of their male counterparts, but that achievement is more on a personal/individual level, than on a tour level... Those players, the ones like Williams, Sharapova and Kournikova, were individually compensated by their popularity through off-court deals and sponsorships, but their individual marketing success never trickled down to the Tour itself... For all their particular financial and popularity success, those WTA stars were only able to bring little more respect and independance to the WTA... Serena and Maria popularity assures their matches are well attended and televised, and they are well paid for that, but the rest of the girls are still left out on a limbo with less money to share and less interest to be shown for...

rocketassist
07-03-2010, 01:39 AM
Honey, let me break it down for you.

Business works like this: If in a market Customer A is willing to pay $XXXX for product B, product B will be sold for $XXXX.

It's that simple.

Being the smart, socially conscious business people that they are, the sponsors are willing to pay women equally to men. There are no bankruptcy claims or grandslams going under water. Everyone is happy with the status quo. Except you. Now why is that?

Er the sponsors pay men more. It's the AELTC, the USTA, Tennis Australia and the FFT who opt to pay equally, not the sponsors. :confused:

rocketassist
07-03-2010, 01:42 AM
This is a myth, the WTA tour never outdrew the ATP in attendance or earnings, and proof of that is that throughout the Open era, ATP non-Slam events have always had higher prize money due to stronger sponsorship and paying expectators. During the 90's and 2000's, a string of WTA players raised to stardom status and their overall earnings started to exceed those of their male counterparts, but that achievement is more on a personal/individual level, than on a tour level... Those players, the ones like Williams, Sharapova and Kournikova, were individually compensated by their popularity through off-court deals and sponsorships, but their individual marketing success never trickled down to the Tour itself... For all their particular financial and popularity success, those WTA stars were only able to bring little more respect and independance to the WTA... Serena and Maria popularity assures their matches are well attended and televised, and they are well paid for that, but the rest of the girls are still left out on a limbo with less money to share and less interest to be shown for...

Anna Kournikova's achieved far more in terms of bank balance than someone like Lindsay Davenport who's actually won a fair few slams. That's what's stupid about the women's game.

Mjau!
07-03-2010, 01:52 AM
Women get the same amount of money for playing 3 sets. Men play 5 sets and get the same as them. Isner gets the same amount of money as the women who lost in the 1st round even though he played over 13 hours. Terrible. Women should get less money because they do less.

I think we all know the reason you and others oppose equal pay has little to do with time spent on the court. This "less work" pretence is merely a suitable con-argument. If women played 5 sets, you'd still complain. :rolleyes:

Sapeod
07-03-2010, 02:01 AM
Should a finalist that loses more sets get paid more than the other?
What is that supposed to mean? Murray lost more sets because he had to play more sets...Pironkova could only lose 2 sets. Murray was going to lose 3 anyway. And it's best of 5 on the ATP so they should be payed more in GS.
I think we all know the reason you and others oppose equal pay has little to do with time spent on the court. This "less work" pretence is merely a suitable con-argument. If women played 5 sets, you'd still complain. :rolleyes:

No I wouldn't because then both tours would play 5 setters, so equal pay would be fair.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-03-2010, 04:02 AM
So replace the word "sponsor" with AELTC, the USTA, Tennis Australia and the FFT and read my post again. It's not that hard. :rolleyes:


Your suggestion is that people should be paid according to how many sets they played and by that logic a losing finalist that played more sets in a tournament should be paid more than the winner who played fewer. Right?




you're a psycho.

People should be payed by the quality of work and the hours they put in.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-03-2010, 04:06 AM
Wow.

That's rocketassist or worse .-Federers_Mate-. stupid. :help:

whats wrong with you?. This has nothing to do with womens rights.

Let me put it simply:

Product A (ATP) puts in longer shifts, delivering better quality
Product B (WTA) puts in shorter shifts, and the final product is not nearly as good as product A.

Its not my fault that men are physically bigger than women.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-03-2010, 04:08 AM
Wow, you've really gone off the deep end. You need to be in the ACC this year.

tell me anout it. The only reason the wta tards continue to argue, is that thye have bruised egos or are shit stirring. For some its both.

.-Federers_Mate-.
07-03-2010, 04:12 AM
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Now you're saying he played the best player ever to opick up a racquet - implying Murray had no chance from the off.

Berdych and Soderling managed to do just that (play aggressive). Also, interesting you actually agree with but call it an idiotic statement. You seem as confused as Murray.

I think a lot of you guys cannot handle a different point of view. Some of you guys here are pretty soft and then wheel out phrases like "idiotic" to attempt to justify yourselves.

I'll say it again, the proof is in the pudding - Murray got hammered, again.

could you be any more stubborn?. He did not get hammered at all, he had great chances in the 2nd set and got nlucky on the big points. Catch his matches vs nadal in their last two HC GS meetings, and you cannot say he was being passive. Today Nadal was too good nothing more needs to be said. And stop patronizing everyone who disagrees with you, it does not make you look any bigger.