Does fate exist in tennis or is it all coincidence? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Does fate exist in tennis or is it all coincidence?

rafa_maniac
06-07-2010, 11:29 AM
I don't know, a day after the RG final I'm still struggling to get my head around the bizarre reversal of fate that seems to follow Federer and Nadal. In 07 for instance Rafa lost in the final of Hamburg to Roger, losing his clay court streak, and went on to lose a heart breaking 5 set Wimbledon final. Exactly a year later Nadal beats Federer in the Hamburg final, then Federer suffers a heart breaking 5 set loss in the Wimbledon final and his grass court streak is snapped. In both cases these events pretty much decided the #1 spot.

This time around the parallels are even more amazing. Rafa goes into Madrid 09 as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Federer in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Federer in the final handing him his career Slam and the eventual #1 ranking. A year later Federer goes into Madrid as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Nadal in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Nadal in the final handing him a 5th crown, the #1 ranking and denying Federer the weeks at #1 record.

As silly as it sounds it almost seems that some things in tennis are just "meant" to happen. Or maybe to put it more logically... what goes around comes around for everyone... eventually. As a Nadal fan those two losses at Wimbledon 07 and RG 09 ultimately served to make the victories the following years more satisfying, and for Federer fans I'm sure the reverse is true, they appreciate the earlier victories more because of how things panned out. Can anyone think of similar examples in the past of things like this occuring?

prima donna
06-07-2010, 11:33 AM
I see that you're feeling rather loquacious after months of self-imposed exile. Brava.

rafa_maniac
06-07-2010, 11:37 AM
Prima :hearts:

It's true I was absent for a lot of last year, but I've actually been fairly active again since january, maybe you've been looking in the wrong places :shrug:

prima donna
06-07-2010, 11:39 AM
I get it: you feel emboldened by Nadal's clay dominance.

rafa_maniac
06-07-2010, 11:44 AM
I don't deny it, gotta make my most of my two months a year ;) But I've been here for several years now, I'm certainly used to the dry spells.

Anyway, I'm surprised you don't have anything to say on the actual topic.

prima donna
06-07-2010, 11:49 AM
Neither. The ultimate determinant of success or failure is form, which tends to vary from one period of time to the next.

christallh24
06-07-2010, 12:20 PM
I don't know, a day after the RG final I'm still struggling to get my head around the bizarre reversal of fate that seems to follow Federer and Nadal. In 07 for instance Rafa lost in the final of Hamburg to Roger, losing his clay court streak, and went on to lose a heart breaking 5 set Wimbledon final. Exactly a year later Nadal beats Federer in the Hamburg final, then Federer suffers a heart breaking 5 set loss in the Wimbledon final and his grass court streak is snapped. In both cases these events pretty much decided the #1 spot.

This time around the parallels are even more amazing. Rafa goes into Madrid 09 as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Federer in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Federer in the final handing him his career Slam and the eventual #1 ranking. A year later Federer goes into Madrid as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Nadal in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Nadal in the final handing him a 5th crown, the #1 ranking and denying Federer the weeks at #1 record.

As silly as it sounds it almost seems that some things in tennis are just "meant" to happen. Or maybe to put it more logically... what goes around comes around for everyone... eventually. As a Nadal fan those two losses at Wimbledon 07 and RG 09 ultimately served to make the victories the following years more satisfying, and for Federer fans I'm sure the reverse is true, they appreciate the earlier victories more because of how things panned out. Can anyone think of similar examples in the past of things like this occuring?

:awww::hug:

As for how I feel about it...:shrug:. The back in forth between them confirms them to be the best two of this era. Simple as that to me.

I get it: you feel emboldened by Nadal's clay dominance.

Don't you with 16>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>7? Fed fans have supreme rope enough to be smug.

Priam
06-07-2010, 12:29 PM
Federer winning RG '09 was destiny. You can only lose so many times in the final before luck finally turns your way.

The same can be said I think for Nadal in Wimb '08 and Goran Wimb '01. Perhaps to some extent Johnny Mac's '81 Wimb as well.

allpro
06-07-2010, 12:47 PM
Anyway, I'm surprised you don't have anything to say on the actual topic.

:lol:

tennizen
06-07-2010, 01:10 PM
The reversals between Federer and Nadal are not that astonishing but I think the most surprising aspect of the whole thing is the role of Soderling as the spoiler.

Filo V.
06-07-2010, 01:11 PM
It's not coincidence or fate, it's just winning or losing.

n8
06-07-2010, 01:28 PM
=The reversals between Federer and Nadal are not that astonishing but I think the most surprising aspect of the whole thing is the role of Soderling as the spoiler.

Excellent point and thanks for the interesting thread rafa_maniac.

Sampras winning the US Open in his last pro event against his biggest rival, it seems to neat to be true.

coonster14
06-07-2010, 01:31 PM
very interesting and something i never really realised until i read this thread, nice work rafa_maniac :wavey:, just goes to prove that these 2 are clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.

swann
06-07-2010, 02:04 PM
"Does fate exist in tennis or is it all coincidence?"
If fate exists, it intervenes in all of our lives, therefore in tennis too.

BlueSwan
06-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Fate is as real in tennis as in our general lives, i.e. not at all.

andy neyer
06-07-2010, 02:34 PM
I definitely thought it was a strange twist of destiny that Federer had ended up just one week short of Sampras. I mean, what are the odds of that happening?

But it is what it is.

Action Jackson
06-07-2010, 02:40 PM
http://japanesemusicdream.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/cover57.jpg

rafa_maniac
06-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Perhaps the thread title was a bit misleading, I don't honestly believe in fate either, but I was more interested in circumstances in tennis where things have just somehow panned out in "fateful" ways.

Noleta
06-07-2010, 04:11 PM
Depends on wheter you believ in fate or not.

Merton
06-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Pre-destination or free will?

pica_pica
06-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Fate can be interpreted as coincidence.
Coincidence can be interpreted as fate.

San Rosso
06-07-2010, 05:23 PM
I don't believe in fate and I don't believe in coincidence so no.

Pirata.
06-07-2010, 05:23 PM
Fate is as real in tennis as in our general lives, i.e. not at all.

:yeah:

Jimnik
06-07-2010, 05:26 PM
Fate is as real in tennis as in our general lives, i.e. not at all.
You don't believe what the oracle has to say?

Purple Rainbow
06-07-2010, 06:55 PM
Neither fate nor coincidence really exists.
Everything is physics. And mathematics.

Fee
06-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Fate and coincidence are just ridiculous theories. We all know The Force rules the universe.

r2473
06-07-2010, 07:48 PM
Fate and coincidence are just ridiculous theories. We all know The Force rules the universe.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2596745886_cb063d9921_o.png

born_on_clay
06-07-2010, 09:58 PM
I don't know, a day after the RG final I'm still struggling to get my head around the bizarre reversal of fate that seems to follow Federer and Nadal. In 07 for instance Rafa lost in the final of Hamburg to Roger, losing his clay court streak, and went on to lose a heart breaking 5 set Wimbledon final. Exactly a year later Nadal beats Federer in the Hamburg final, then Federer suffers a heart breaking 5 set loss in the Wimbledon final and his grass court streak is snapped. In both cases these events pretty much decided the #1 spot.

This time around the parallels are even more amazing. Rafa goes into Madrid 09 as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Federer in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Federer in the final handing him his career Slam and the eventual #1 ranking. A year later Federer goes into Madrid as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Nadal in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Nadal in the final handing him a 5th crown, the #1 ranking and denying Federer the weeks at #1 record.

As silly as it sounds it almost seems that some things in tennis are just "meant" to happen. Or maybe to put it more logically... what goes around comes around for everyone... eventually. As a Nadal fan those two losses at Wimbledon 07 and RG 09 ultimately served to make the victories the following years more satisfying, and for Federer fans I'm sure the reverse is true, they appreciate the earlier victories more because of how things panned out. Can anyone think of similar examples in the past of things like this occuring?

great post :wavey:

Bagelicious
06-08-2010, 12:07 AM
This thread is getting a bit too existential for me... fate determines coincidence or is it the other way around?

Anyway, it's interesting, especially the parallels with Soderling. As with the other posters, it goes to show how far ahead of everyone else these two are.

General Suburbia
06-08-2010, 12:46 AM
If tennis is the driving force behind your confirmation of faith, then something's a little off in your head.

Elena.
06-08-2010, 06:52 AM
Coincidences don't exist,they are recurring patterns in life,the solar system is like a clock ,it has its cycles,you can call it fate if you like,i simply call it determinism.
You could predict things if you knew all the rules of a system ,that's what i think.
So to sum it up yes to "fate", no to coincidences.

e476
06-08-2010, 07:59 AM
I don't believe in fate. It's all coincidence. Random luck plays a big part in determining results. For example, will player A become injured or withdraw for X reason - look at Dementieva withdrawing at the French (WTA reference, but bear with me :devil:). Had she been in top shape, she might have won against Schiavone, which would have resulted in a different RG champion. I do not think Schiavone was destined to become RG champion. Also, different draws could totally change the direction the tournament goes in.

Vida
06-08-2010, 08:07 AM
hell, Id be millionaire by now had my parents bought me 286 instead of C64. but it simply wasnt meant to be.

heya
06-08-2010, 09:00 AM
The manipulative/suggestive media & clown tennis players
deliberately want Federer to have his great results.
Some admitted that.
Yes, there is determined fate.
If these mentally &
physically challenged opponents weren't born, better players would've decreased Federer's win count.

Elena.
06-08-2010, 09:07 AM
^he's a Lio .He's bound to win ,not his fault or anybody's :lol:

keroni
06-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Federer's Fate

He meets a 17 year old first in Miami and becomes known as the greatest of all time but just can't beat a guy who picks his pants.

n8
06-09-2010, 10:34 AM
I don't know, a day after the RG final I'm still struggling to get my head around the bizarre reversal of fate that seems to follow Federer and Nadal. In 07 for instance Rafa lost in the final of Hamburg to Roger, losing his clay court streak, and went on to lose a heart breaking 5 set Wimbledon final. Exactly a year later Nadal beats Federer in the Hamburg final, then Federer suffers a heart breaking 5 set loss in the Wimbledon final and his grass court streak is snapped. In both cases these events pretty much decided the #1 spot.

This time around the parallels are even more amazing. Rafa goes into Madrid 09 as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Federer in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Federer in the final handing him his career Slam and the eventual #1 ranking. A year later Federer goes into Madrid as the clear world #1 and holder of RG, Wimbledon and the Oz Open, loses to Nadal in the final, proceeds to lose to Soderling mid way through the French, who then goes down meekly to Nadal in the final handing him a 5th crown, the #1 ranking and denying Federer the weeks at #1 record.

As silly as it sounds it almost seems that some things in tennis are just "meant" to happen. Or maybe to put it more logically... what goes around comes around for everyone... eventually. As a Nadal fan those two losses at Wimbledon 07 and RG 09 ultimately served to make the victories the following years more satisfying, and for Federer fans I'm sure the reverse is true, they appreciate the earlier victories more because of how things panned out. Can anyone think of similar examples in the past of things like this occuring?

Another thing I find interesting is the number of sets involved. Both Hamburg finals were 3 setters and both Madrid finals were straight sets. Also, both losses to Soderling were 4 sets (Nadal won 19 games and Federer 18) and both finals against Soderling were three sets (Soderling won 11 games against Federer and 10 games against Nadal). Also, both times Soderling played the number one seed as early as possible given the seedings (23rd seed and 4th round and 5th seed and quarters).

Nidhogg
06-09-2010, 11:00 AM
It's all coincidence. We pick out the moments and instances which can be seen as poetical as evidence of fate, while we disregard everything which doesn't fit in with the script as irrelevant, which in turn highlights and puts even more emphasis on the poetic stuff.

We're humans. We love to tell stories, while we also love to search for a higher meaning to things which happen.

rocobaroco
06-09-2010, 11:35 AM
There is a story about Napoleon. He once went to a palmist. Looking at his hand, the palmist told him "Had line of fate in your hand been 1 cm longer, you would had become a great warrior."
"Where is the line of fate located?" asked Napoleon.
"Here" palmist pointed out.
"Hmm.." Napoleon looked at the line on his hand, took a knife out, cut his hand and made the line longer. "Would that do?"

It's interesting to note that for more than fore years, destiny was not playing much role between Rafa-Fedex rivalry, where, inspite of defeating Federer in most of the encounters, Rafa still remained second to him in rankings. Now that he did all the hard work and eventually replaced Federer as emperor, lets not try to deny him enjoying the dividends of his achievements by making wild observations.

Cheers!

raahaat7
06-09-2010, 12:01 PM
Neither. The ultimate determinant of success or failure is form, which tends to vary from one period of time to the next.

Yes. Destiny is the major determinant of what takes place in this world.