Rafa better on clay than any player has been on any surface [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Rafa better on clay than any player has been on any surface

Guersmith
04-22-2010, 05:54 PM
After obliterating the field in Monte Carlo last week, it's clear that Nadal is better on clay than any player has been on any surface ever. Federer and Sampras on grass? Their numbers don't compare to Rafa's. Borg on clay? Same story.

Never has their been a better marriage of determination and strokes with a particular surface.

Here's the full text of my thoughts:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-22652-Pro-Tennis-Examiner~y2010m4d19-Beating-Nadal-on-clay-the-hardest-thing-in-the-history-of-tennis

marcRD
04-22-2010, 06:05 PM
Probably that is true, I wont argue against you on this one.

oranges
04-22-2010, 06:06 PM
A trollish/spammish combo, how delightful

chenx15
04-22-2010, 06:26 PM
thank you Mr. obvious

rocketassist
04-22-2010, 06:28 PM
:cuckoo:

Har-Tru
04-22-2010, 06:32 PM
He's not the best ever on any particular surface.

Pirata.
04-22-2010, 06:36 PM
Federer and Sampras on grass? Their numbers don't compare to Rafa's.

Obviously their numbers aren't going to compare to Rafa's. A player can play at max three events on grass throughout the entire season. Of course their numbers don't compare to Rafa's, they don't have two months of clay Masters and 500 events as well as a smattering of events in South America at the start of the year and a couple clay events before the North American HC swing.

:rolleyes:

Ivanatis
04-22-2010, 06:39 PM
After obliterating the field in Monte Carlo last week, it's clear that Nadal is better on clay than any player has been on any surface ever.

This already got me:lol:

Action Jackson
04-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Best thread ever.

Sofonda Cox
04-22-2010, 06:50 PM
amaze.

ossie
04-22-2010, 07:48 PM
people actually think rafas not the best clay-player ever? :spit:

madmax
04-22-2010, 07:51 PM
Bullshit

rocketassist
04-22-2010, 08:47 PM
people actually think rafas not the best clay-player ever? :spit:

Yes, quite a lot actually.

oz_boz
04-22-2010, 08:59 PM
Most dominant - probably. But not not the lone best - IMO Borg had better clay competition than Rafa has, not by much but still.

HKz
04-22-2010, 09:00 PM
people actually think rafas not the best clay-player ever? :spit:

There is someone by the name of Borg. You may say "look at all those TMS titles Rafael has" but back in Borg's time, there were no such type of tournament as tournaments labeled and advertised as a MS event only started in 1990.

So truly the only comparable stat is the French Open wins.

OP's beliefs are very stupid, much like Start_da_fail's and FailSampras's remarks. It can be argued that upsets are easier to achieve on faster surfaces.

Either way, if there was a way to calculate who truly is the most dominant player on each of the surfaces and compare them to other players/surfaces, who cares. You don't get your name included in the discussion for GOAT merely by winning on one surface. Because on hardcourts and grass, Nadal isn't even in the top 10 whereareas Borg is arguably in the top of the discussion on more than just clay. And then Federer clearly is in the discussion for best player on grass/hardcourts, plus while there are obviously better players on clay than Federer, he can also be argued in the top 10 on that particular surface.

Collective
04-22-2010, 09:09 PM
One surface wonder

Macbrother
04-22-2010, 09:15 PM
He has a long way to catch Borg, much less compare to other people on other surfaces. But, provided his body holds up, the capability is clearly there.

l_mac
04-22-2010, 09:16 PM
:zzz:

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 09:25 PM
Nope.. He isnt even the best on clay.. That's Bjorn Borg. So how could he be the best on clay then everyone else in another surface when he isnt even the GOAT on his best surface? Hmmmm


And you could also argue for Rosewall on clay as well

sirwilliam
04-22-2010, 09:30 PM
Rafa will be the best ever on a single surface unless he has to retire due to health problems/injuries or the discovery that he's taking massive amounts of grizzly bear hormones or something...

marcRD
04-22-2010, 09:34 PM
Nope.. He isnt even the best on clay.. That's Bjorn Borg. So how could he be the best on clay then everyone else in another surface when he isnt even the GOAT on his best surface? Hmmmm


And you could also argue for Rosewall on clay as well

Borg is not better than Nadal on clay, so far he achieved more than Nadal, but at Nadal's age I think both actually had the same amount of RG titles, lets wait a couple of years and see if Rafa can take 2 more RGs until we start saying that Borg was better than Nadal. At the same age I think they are equal in RG while Nadal's clay results outside RG is slightly more impressive than Borg.

Federer and Sampras on grass, I somehow feel they are just slightly less unbeatable than Nadal and Borg on clay. I mean that more players got them to 5 sets and they never had a year they went crushing everyone in straight sets like Borg and Nadal 78, 80 and 08.

Sofonda Cox
04-22-2010, 09:43 PM
One surface wonder

I doubt you watch much tennis.

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 09:46 PM
Borg is not better than Nadal on clay, so far he achieved more than Nadal, but at Nadal's age I think both actually had the same amount of RG titles, lets wait a couple of years and see if Rafa can take 2 more RGs until we start saying that Borg was better than Nadal. At the same age I think they are equal in RG while Nadal's clay results outside RG is slightly more impressive than Borg.

Federer and Sampras on grass, I somehow feel they are just slightly less unbeatable than Nadal and Borg on clay. I mean that more players got them to 5 sets and they never had a year they went crushing everyone in straight sets like Borg and Nadal 78, 80 and 08.




It is difficult to compare but if we want to go with the hardcore facts then... Borg>Nadal on clay so far.. 6>4 when its mattered most. But of course thats just for the historians.. No way to really prove. Some people forget about Rosewall too on clay. Hes right up there with these two. domination wise.. Maybe.... youre right.. Nadal is more dominant on clay then Federer or Sampras are on grass. But... It is difficult to compare this as well. Sampras only cared about Wimbledon.. No other grass court tournaments really. When he had to rise up and win he did when it mattered most.. Federer and Nadal play on totally separate type of entity in grass. One can say clay has completely changed as well from today compared to eras past. And when Nadal finally primed on grass he beat Roger. But in terms of the numbers though.. Sampras with 7 wimbledons, roger with 6.. Nadal stil only has 1 wimbledon but he did reach the finals of two others.


I agree though.. Nadal may be more dominant on clay than Pete and Roger on grass.. But the grass season is always the shortest season. And people do still feel Pete is still the best on grass.. But again.. different grass, shorter season, and he only cared about the wins.. But numbers wise. when it matted most.. 7 wimbledons> 4 French Opens. Of course this doesnt take into account other tournaments... So knows.. I guess we could argue all day long.....





One could argue.. What type of domination would Nadal be able to maintain on clay in the 90s or 80s? others eras produced clay court specialists to a high degree.. this means more threats and tougher draws for Nadal en route to the RG finals or masters event on clay.. Wilander, Guga, Bruguera, Courier, Agassi, Medvedev (yea no slam wins but quite a few clay masters shields, Muster etc.. All guys with some good clay court credentials.. Rest assured, there would be some threats littered through clay court tournaments lying in wait for Nadal. That doesnt mean Nadal still wouldnt dominate.. But he would have more clay court threats to deal with I think we can agree than he has since 2005-on in this era

LEGENDOFTENNIS
04-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Nope Federer on grass, unbeaten at Halle for ages only been beaten once at Wimby since he first won it 7 years ago. Whos beaten him on grass? Hes been beaten by Henman/Ancic and then has gone on to destroy them both and Nadal beat him but Federer wasn't at his best at all that year and Federer still is 2-1 up against him on that surface and has gone to reclaim his dominance on Grass.

Although, Nadal has a strong case. Ferrero/Federer(2)/Soderling and was it Djoko(?) have beaten him on clay. Federer at Wimby is THE BEST, Nadal at RG can still be challenged by Federer(better clay game now), Del Potro, Djoko, Soderling.

rocketassist
04-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Andreev it was.

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 09:57 PM
Nope Federer on grass, unbeaten at Halle for ages only been beaten once at Wimby since he first won it 7 years ago. Whos beaten him on grass? Hes been beaten by Henman/Ancic and then has gone on to destroy them both and Nadal beat him but Federer wasn't at his best at all that year and Federer still is 2-1 up against him on that surface and has gone to reclaim his dominance on Grass.

Although, Nadal has a strong case. Ferrero/Federer(2)/Soderling and was it Djoko(?) have beaten him on clay. Federer at Wimby is THE BEST, Nadal at RG can still be challenged by Federer(better clay game now), Del Potro, Djoko, Soderling.



Federer still needs 2 more wimbledon titles Im afraid.. Most still believe Pete is the GOAT on grass.. Maybe 1 more to make it arguable.. But 7 wimbledons in 8 years is still greater than 6 wimbledon's in 7

General Suburbia
04-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Although, Nadal has a strong case. Ferrero/Federer(2)/Soderling and was it Djoko(?) have beaten him on clay. Federer at Wimby is THE BEST, Nadal at RG can still be challenged by Federer(better clay game now), Del Potro, Djoko, Soderling.
Um...Nadal has beaten Federer at Wimbledon. Federer's never taken Nadal to 5 sets at RG.

prima donna
04-22-2010, 10:04 PM
And people do still feel Pete is still the best on grass
To whom are you referring ? People such as yourself ?

MrChopin
04-22-2010, 10:07 PM
Federer still needs 2 more wimbledon titles Im afraid.. Most still believe Pete is the GOAT on grass.. Maybe 1 more to make it arguable.. But 7 wimbledons in 8 years is still greater than 6 wimbledon's in 7

Only 1 if he wins next year. 8 straight finals, 7 of them titles, is enough to pass Pete.

After obliterating the field in Monte Carlo last week, it's clear that Nadal is better on clay than any player has been on any surface ever. Federer and Sampras on grass? Their numbers don't compare to Rafa's. Borg on clay? Same story.

Never has their been a better marriage of determination and strokes with a particular surface...

Some Nadal fans are better at stroking than Nadal himself.

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 10:18 PM
To whom are you referring ? People such as yourself ?

Well.. john Mcenroe for one if we go by former players.. Im sure you will find many on here and all over the word who thinks the same.

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 10:19 PM
Only 1 if he wins next year. 8 straight finals, 7 of them titles, is enough to pass Pete.



Some Nadal fans are better at stroking than Nadal himself.

Maybe... But the debate will continue.. Maybe the grass eras should be separate since it isnt even the true grass anymore.. Now its sodded to the moon. . 2002-current. 2001-prior

marcRD
04-22-2010, 10:26 PM
Maybe... But the debate will continue.. Maybe the grass eras should be separate since it isnt even the true grass anymore.. Now its sodded to the moon. . 2002-current. 2001-prior

It was quite fast in 2003 and everybody was still playing serve and volley. That will go down as the only grand slam Federer ever will win playing serve and volley.

SetSampras
04-22-2010, 10:42 PM
It was quite fast in 2003 and everybody was still playing serve and volley. That will go down as the only grand slam Federer ever will win playing serve and volley.


Yea but the great serve-volleyers became extinct prior to 2003. There was no Goran, no krajicek, no Stich, no Edberg, no prime Sampras, no Mcenroe etc by 2003. I mean Federer played Phillipousis in the finals.. Decent but nothing great either. Unless you think Roddick is a great serve-volley player or Hewitt. Federer definitely attacked more back then.. But he didnt deal with it in return by all time great attackers either during that time.


But its tougher to be consistent playing that style.. Had Federer continued playing that style, he would never have been as dominant as he was. Back when he was an attacker he was prone to defeat alot..

Nowadays the best baseliner usually wins.. And when all you have to deal with is baseliners today .. coupled with the slow conditions just about everywheres.. Its easier to be consistent I truly feel.. No variety of opponent, less variety of surface conditions etc.. I will always believe its easier to maintain a dominant and consistent form under today's conditions compared to years ago. Way easier.

Do u think Nadal could maintain a high level of consistency under the old conditions?

marcRD
04-22-2010, 10:48 PM
Yea but the great serve-volleyers became extinct prior to 2003. There was no Goran, no krajicek, no Stich, no Edberg, no prime Sampras, no Mcenroe etc by 2003. I mean Federer played Phillipousis in the finals.. Decent but nothing great either. Unless you think Roddick is a great serve-volley player or Hewitt

No, but Roddick, Federer, scud and Grosjean were all playing pure serve and volley that year (ok, I just remembered Roddick was not really playing serve and volley, but more beeing lured to the net by Federer, but Federer played serve and volley all the way). Grass was really fast that year, they showed somewhere that the avarage serve was about 10 mph faster than in 2008 and the ball bounced lower aswell. Take a look for yourself, the last real grasscourt match played:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEysBocPWOE&feature=related

Ad Wim
04-22-2010, 10:54 PM
Obviously their numbers aren't going to compare to Rafa's. A player can play at max three events on grass throughout the entire season. Of course their numbers don't compare to Rafa's, they don't have two months of clay Masters and 500 events as well as a smattering of events in South America at the start of the year and a couple clay events before the North American HC swing.

:rolleyes:

This. Stupid thread.

magnoliaewan
04-22-2010, 10:57 PM
Wow, all the Rafa stans are coming out of the woods right when clay season starts like clockwork.

brent-o
04-23-2010, 12:51 AM
Rafa could wind up with 20 French Opens and still the tards would whine that he's not playing such clay-court greats as Vilas and so they don't count.

CyBorg
04-23-2010, 12:59 AM
Crap article and I'll tell you in simple terms why it's crap.

More than 80% of it is about Nadal in a vacuum of his era and not even a decent paragraph's worth is spent analyzing his accomplishments against those of Borg. Rosewall is not even mentioned.

The part about Borg's five-setters is pigeonholed. At his peak clay court ability Borg played only one five-setter at Roland Garros - against Lendl in 1981. Otherwise you'd have to go back to, I think, 1976. Borg played a five-setter against Panatta in Rome in 1978, but Nadal played one as well against Federer in Rome in 2006. Besides, there's no more best-of-fivers outside of the grand slam anymore.

And, worst of all, there's not a sniff of a statistical analysis in this worthless piece of crap of an article. The numbers is where it's really interesting. The percentages really serve Borg well, and Nadal too.

A close look at the numbers is telling of Nadal's greatness, for sure. But Borg was untouchable on the surface. And if we look at the three measly losses he suffered on red clay in the five years of 1977 to 1981, we realize that one of them involved a retirement (while up 4-1), another one is in a very minor event. Only the third was a shocker in Monte Carlo (loss to Victor Pecci).

And, as far as pure dominance goes, never was Nadal as dominant as Borg was at the 1978 French Open - where Borg didn't lose a set, and barely lost games. Borg also won a French Open without losing a set in 1980. Nadal did this once in 2008.

Things get complicated when we begin to talk about grass. Today there's not much out there aside from Wimbledon. Going back further one cannot ignore Laver's dominance of many grass court events. Of course, to the author believes that tennis started with Borg and the other almost 100 years of the sport don't matter. Another reason to really dislike fluff like this.

CyBorg
04-23-2010, 01:01 AM
Wow, all the Rafa stans are coming out of the woods right when clay season starts like clockwork.

It's funny how Nadal was a bum for the longest time after the Soderling loss. But it doesn't take much to get the rabid fans to jump back on the bandwagon.

brent-o
04-23-2010, 01:05 AM
Nope Federer on grass, unbeaten at Halle for ages only been beaten once at Wimby since he first won it 7 years ago. Whos beaten him on grass? Hes been beaten by Henman/Ancic and then has gone on to destroy them both and Nadal beat him but Federer wasn't at his best at all that year and Federer still is 2-1 up against him on that surface and has gone to reclaim his dominance on Grass.

Although, Nadal has a strong case. Ferrero/Federer(2)/Soderling and was it Djoko(?) have beaten him on clay. Federer at Wimby is THE BEST, Nadal at RG can still be challenged by Federer(better clay game now), Del Potro, Djoko, Soderling.

You make a valid point about Federer and grass. It's a shame there aren't more grass tournaments because I believe he is at least AS dominant on grass as Nadal on clay. That being said, the rest of your argument is bullocks. Del Potro has never beaten Nadal on clay, so he's irrelevant. Soderling has once, and suddenly he has his number? People said that about Tsonga after he knocked Nadal out of AO, and we've seen how that H2H has ended up since. Federer wasn't at his best at Wimbledon 2008? Could have had me fooled. You don't have to tear Nadal's accomplishments down to build Federer up. Most objective fans can see they're both incredibly dominant on all surfaces.

HKz
04-23-2010, 01:20 AM
No, but Roddick, Federer, scud and Grosjean were all playing pure serve and volley that year (ok, I just remembered Roddick was not really playing serve and volley, but more beeing lured to the net by Federer, but Federer played serve and volley all the way). Grass was really fast that year, they showed somewhere that the avarage serve was about 10 mph faster than in 2008 and the ball bounced lower aswell. Take a look for yourself, the last real grasscourt match played:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEysBocPWOE&feature=related

Also take a look at this. Commentary during the final Nadal won at Wimbledon.

y8K20ZILplU&feature=related

andy neyer
04-23-2010, 01:22 AM
Take a look for yourself, the last real grasscourt match played:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEysBocPWOE&feature=related

Thanks for posting that. That's like the highest level of of commentator's fanboying to Federer I've ever heard :lol:

Still a good video and thanks again for sharing the link. Federer's return of serve with his backhand was so good back then. Nowadays he just slices the ball even when Volandri is the one serving to his backhand.

marcRD
04-23-2010, 01:30 AM
It is obviously not to Federer's advantage that grass has slowed down, I think he would be completely unbeatable if we would keep the 2003 grass. His 2003 Wimbledon may still be his most dominating, even more so than the 2006 Wimbledon, despite Federer not beeing anywhere close to as good in 2003 as in 2006. I would have loved to see him develop that serve and volley game further, it was almost impossible to break Federer's serve in 2003, in 2004 it had already slowed down and even Roddick broke Federer's serve many times.

HKz
04-23-2010, 01:36 AM
It is obviously not to Federer's advantage that grass has slowed down, I think he would be completely unbeatable if we would keep the 2003 grass. His 2003 Wimbledon may still be his most dominating, even more so than the 2006 Wimbledon, despite Federer not beeing anywhere close to as good in 2003 as in 2006. I would have loved to see him develop that serve and volley game further, it was almost impossible to break Federer's serve in 2003, in 2004 it had already slowed down and even Roddick broke Federer's serve many times.

Well who knows if his game on clay would have suffered, because he clearly changed his style of play on clay during the years of 2004/2005/2006 from a more fast court type player playing on clay to a more clay court type game. His use of slice on clay changed a bit, and he definitely likes to whip that forehand more now than he did prior to 2005 where he really attacked through the ball.

paseo
04-23-2010, 02:18 AM
Right now :
- Clay GOAT : Borg. Runner-up : Nadal.
- Grass GOAT : Sampras. Runner-up : Fed.
- GOAT : Fed. Runner-up : Sampras.

Trust me on this. I know.

gusavo
04-23-2010, 04:52 AM
Federer and Sampras on grass? Their numbers don't compare to Rafa's.
uh, obviously. its grass

CyBorg
04-23-2010, 05:12 AM
uh, obviously. its grass

Aside from that, Federer's w-l percentage on grass since 2003 (including the Halle matches) must be around 98%. That most definitely compares, and there's still enough matches to go on, so the sample is substantial enough to be meaningful.

wackykid
04-23-2010, 07:44 AM
people actually think rafas not the best clay-player ever? :spit:

maybe... all we need is someone called SetBorg or something to come in and comment about the lack of quality clay players compared to Borg-era.... :lol:


regards,
wacky

Start da Game
04-23-2010, 08:02 AM
rafa has proved against quality on clay(coria, ferrero, federer, djokovic) and the domination has been unreal.......so yes, i think nadal has dominated clay in a fashion that no one has dominated like that on any surface.......he is well on his way closing in on borg to become the greatest ever on clay.......

andy neyer
04-23-2010, 08:07 AM
rafa has proved against quality on clay(coria, ferrero, federer, djokovic) and the domination has been unreal.......so yes, i think nadal has dominated clay in a fashion that no one has dominated like that on any surface.......he is well on his way closing in on borg to become the greatest ever on clay.......

I actually agree with that 100%. I just find it funny how big your hatred for Federer is.

Start da Game
04-23-2010, 08:10 AM
I actually agree with that 100%. I just find it funny how big your hatred for Federer is.

truth = hatred for delusional tards who blindly worship a player.......i haven't written anything wrong in that post.......go ahead and tell me how many great grass court players has fed beat in his 6 wimbledon titles?

bokehlicious
04-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Someone send SdG join his pal everko on vacation... Please...

andy neyer
04-23-2010, 08:19 AM
truth = hatred for delusional tards who blindly worship a player.......i haven't written anything wrong in that post.......go ahead and tell me how many great grass court players has fed beat in his 6 wimbledon titles?

Absolutely none. They were all mugs of course.

Har-Tru
04-23-2010, 09:04 AM
truth = hatred for delusional tards who blindly worship a player.......i haven't written anything wrong in that post.......go ahead and tell me how many great grass court players has fed beat in his 6 wimbledon titles?

Instead of that, why don't you ask yourself how many great clay court players Nadal has beaten in his 4 FO titles?

siddy
04-23-2010, 09:24 AM
truth = hatred for delusional tards who blindly worship a player.......

I know. Tennis viewers around the world, tennis media, contemporary players AND retired greats are all blind except a few enlightened souls (who, in most cases, happen to be die-hard Rafa fans). :D

Another RogFan
04-23-2010, 09:46 AM
Absolutely none. They were all mugs of course.

Let’s emphasize it again. Which should include Nadal of course.
I like clay courte season: someone can see otherwise useless people /mostly haters during the rest of the season/ trying to speak in an instructive way.
(who, in most cases, happen to be die-hard Rafa fans). :D

Start da Game
04-23-2010, 10:50 AM
Instead of that, why don't you ask yourself how many great clay court players Nadal has beaten in his 4 FO titles?

a young and inexperienced nadal proved his ability against the likes of coria, ferrero and is now dominating the current field into submission which includes djokovic, federer who are no mugs on clay either.......

whereas fed failed to assert his authority on true grass court players like henman, rafter when he had a chance to play with them........even a young second rate SNV player like ancic blew him off in straight sets.......fed had only one off victories against one or two big players but he failed to win grass titles dealing with real grass court players.......

nadal with his clay court game is exposing federer on grass and there are no real grass players anymore as well to make it a little tougher for both rafa and fed actually.......

nadal on the other hand is butchering everyone on clay including your fav and the haplessness of players including your fav has reached a level where they have to rely on nadal's knee injuries to have any hope of winning clay titles.......

paseo
04-23-2010, 11:02 AM
If Nadal gets the same amount of RG titles as Borg, then Nadal will be The Clay GOAT.

andy neyer
04-23-2010, 12:11 PM
whereas fed failed to assert his authority on true grass court players like henman, rafter when he had a chance to play with them........even a young second rate SNV player like ancic blew him off in straight sets.......fed had only one off victories against one or two big players but he failed to win grass titles dealing with real grass court players.......

Didn't a teenage Federer beat this mug who happened to be the 4 time defending Wimby champion, Pete Sampras (that was his name, i think), in 5 sets before losing to Henman?

Har-Tru
04-23-2010, 03:58 PM
a young and inexperienced nadal proved his ability against the likes of coria, ferrero and is now dominating the current field into submission which includes djokovic, federer who are no mugs on clay either.......

whereas fed failed to assert his authority on true grass court players like henman, rafter when he had a chance to play with them........even a young second rate SNV player like ancic blew him off in straight sets.......fed had only one off victories against one or two big players but he failed to win grass titles dealing with real grass court players....... [/QUOTE]

I seem to recall a young and inexperienced Federer "proved his ability" against some good grass courters to. As in beat them.

nadal with his clay court game is exposing federer on grass and there are no real grass players anymore as well to make it a little tougher for both rafa and fed actually.......

nadal on the other hand is butchering everyone on clay including your fav and the haplessness of players including your fav has reached a level where they have to rely on nadal's knee injuries to have any hope of winning clay titles.......

And who exactly is my fav?

Certinfy
04-23-2010, 04:29 PM
According to Start da Game:

Winning Wimbledon 2008 > Winning Wimbledon 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2009.

Singularity
04-23-2010, 04:44 PM
truth = hatred for delusional tards who blindly worship a player.......i haven't written anything wrong in that post.......go ahead and tell me how many great grass court players has fed beat in his 6 wimbledon titles?
Well, Roddick, Hewitt, Ancic, Gasquet, Grosjean, Philippoussis, and Henman are all I think good to great players on grass, and Federer dispatched them without much trouble, in his prime. Lets also not forget Nadal, who he did in fact beat twice.

superslam77
04-23-2010, 04:51 PM
HC GOAT: Federesian 9 GS+ 2 GS F (Pistol 2nd?? 7 GS)
GRASS GOAT:Pistol Pete 7 GS(Federesian close 2nd 6 GS+ 1 F...needs 1 more WB)
CLAY GOAT: Bjorkesian Borgereresian. 6 GS + don't know how many finals. (Nadalasian would need 3 more RGs)

hope this helps.

tnosugar
04-23-2010, 04:59 PM
Right now :
- Clay GOAT : Borg. Runner-up : Nadal.
- Grass GOAT : Sampras. Runner-up : Fed.
- GOAT : Fed. Runner-up : Sampras.

Trust me on this. I know.

this sounds reasonable
HC GOAT?

BigJohn
04-23-2010, 07:22 PM
After obliterating the field in Monte Carlo last week, it's clear that Nadal is better on clay than any player has been on any surface ever.

The sequence went like this:
Read the quote
:spit:
a few burst of LOL for the next 15 minutes
sustained smile and intermittent giggles ever since.

Thank you for this sentence.

guga2120
04-24-2010, 05:39 AM
If Nadal gets the same amount of RG titles as Borg, then Nadal will be The Clay GOAT.


Nadal, is already the best on clay, the best on any surface? Thats debatable.

Blondie1985
04-24-2010, 06:05 AM
sure, that's why he won five straight FO

...wait a minute

guga2120
04-24-2010, 06:11 AM
sure, that's why he won five straight FO

...wait a minute

Well the master series events, Davis cup, Barcelona, are all meaningless. They are just exo's for Roland Garros. :wavey:

Kolya
04-24-2010, 06:16 AM
Might as well make a Nadal is the GOAT thread.

paseo
04-24-2010, 09:44 AM
this sounds reasonable
HC GOAT?

hmmm..

HC GOAT : Fed. Runner up : Sampras.