RafaChat Part 7 [Archive] - Page 18 - MensTennisForums.com

RafaChat Part 7

Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:34 PM
Hey Martine, Linda, George and MIkey (my favourite :hearts:)

Hey Claire!!

:p Mikey is MY fav btw :ras:

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:35 PM
Hey Claire!!

:p Mikey is MY fav btw :ras:

calm girls..there is a list of mikey girls;) and a ranking..of course:angel:
ask to him :haha:

marti are u in msn?

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 06:37 PM
St Andrews isn't near Glasgow. :lol:

There are castles in Glasgow, Crookston Castle springs immesdiately to mind, Bothwell Castle.

Dumbarton Castle is quite near Glasgow and so is Newark.

edit: Bothwell is quite near Coatbridge, maybe that is the one she meant?

Culzean Castle is famous and it's in Ayr, which is near Glasgow -ish.
:worship: too good.
I'm at my mother's and I never usually use the computer at her house, but she is playing golf and I am "making dinner"
Just admit you couldn't stay away, we understand :hug:

Speaking of which, what is happening to your TT career. I haven't been consulted for several weeks :(
I just won't watch his matches. There will be others to watch.
Why would you not want to watch the greatest clay court player of all time? :scratch:

I thought you were a tennis fan :sad:

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:37 PM
calm girls..there is a list of mikey girls;) and a ranking..of course:angel:
ask to him :haha:

marti are u in msn?

I wanna be HIGH in that ranking or :boxing:

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 06:40 PM
:p Does this mean yr where Filske is? :kiss:dont confuse me women!? :(

Saltcoats distance to your city??hmm.... 30 minutes by train, much longer by car.

Claire, another win for monoFed.. did you watch this one? how was he looking? how was 'the spot'? has it burst yet? i dont wanna be near him when it does *SPLAT*

;)

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:40 PM
I wanna be HIGH in that ranking or :boxing:

;)

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 06:41 PM
calm girls..there is a list of mikey girls;) and a ranking..of course:angel:
ask to him :haha:
a ranking? :p
no way! all my friends :kiss: good for my ego - but i'm realistic Beto .... i know in REAL life you'd all :bolt: from me ;)

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 06:41 PM
Why would you not want to watch the greatest clay court player of all time? :scratch:

I thought you were a tennis fan :sad:

First part is clearly wrong.

Only time when a beatdown is good, is when there is a comedy aspect to it or your most hated player is getting flogged. There aren't that many clay clowns in Monte Carlo, so the comedy aspect isn't there.

Think about the reason you hate Federer in the 2nd part of your statement.

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:42 PM
Hey Claire!!

:p Mikey is MY fav btw :ras:
Isn't that...*shudders*...Gu?

By the way, hi AGAIN, Martine.

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 06:43 PM
First part is clearly wrong.

Only time when a beatdown is good, is when there is a comedy aspect to it or your most hated player is getting flogged. There aren't that many clay clowns in Monte Carlo, so the comedy aspect isn't there.

Think about the reason you hate Federer in the 2nd part of your statement.
:lol: come on Georgy poo, what does he have to do to convince you?

Federer was never the best on any chosen surface though, Rafatito is the undisputed clay GOAT :p

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:43 PM
a ranking? :p
no way! all my friends :kiss: good for my ego - but i'm realistic Beto .... i know in REAL life you'd all :bolt: from me ;)

:awww::awww:all is possible;) so then will be a running of girls

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:44 PM
:lol: come on Georgy poo, what does he have to do to convince you?
Oh please, Adam, don't go there. :lol:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 06:44 PM
:lol: come on Georgy poo, what does he have to do to convince you?

Federer was never the best on any chosen surface though, Rafatito is the undisputed clay GOAT :p

I am not like you, who thinks tennis started in 2005.

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:45 PM
I am not like you, who thinks tennis started in 2005.

:secret: depend of thta u're...older:p

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:45 PM
Isn't that...*shudders*...Gu?

By the way, hi AGAIN, Martine.

hehe :banana: seems I like the young toyboys :p then

elessar
04-17-2008, 06:46 PM
Claire, another win for monoFed.. did you watch this one? how was he looking? how was 'the spot'? has it burst yet? i dont wanna be near him when it does *SPLAT*

;)
I didn't see it but I hear his Bh was :hearts:(as always:D) and the drop shots were even better :drool:

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:47 PM
hehe :banana: seems I like the young toyboys :p then
Mikey: understandable. But Gu, Martine?

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Isn't that...*shudders*...Gu?

By the way, hi AGAIN, Martine.Looking forward to Glenn coming back, are ya Hilde ? ;)
not long now :bounce:

GM will be Fakervic this, Fakervic that ..... :lol:

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Mikey: understandable. But Gu, Martine?

gu is sexy

:haha: :haha: a baby sexy:haha:

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:48 PM
Mikey: understandable. But Gu, Martine?

:p I bet you never saw his pic Hilde.....

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:49 PM
:p I bet you never saw his pic Hilde.....
Oh I did. :bolt:

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 06:49 PM
I am not like you, who thinks tennis started in 2005.
Georgy, that was a feeble answer and I'm not accepting it :(

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:50 PM
Oh I did. :bolt:

:bolt: Watte.... gij zij ni goe zekers :lol:

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:51 PM
:bolt: Watte.... gij zij ni goe zekers :lol:
:(
:p
Jakkes, joh. 'k Moet niks hebben van dat strekenventje. Je mag hem helemaal voor jou hebben. :)

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 06:52 PM
Belgian !!

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:54 PM
:(
:p
Jakkes, joh. 'k Moet niks hebben van dat strekenventje. Je mag hem helemaal voor jou hebben. :)

Allé merci hé :aplot: maar hij is zeker geen strekenventje zene. heel toffe gast (maar wa jong voor mij :o )

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 06:54 PM
Georgy, that was a feeble answer and I'm not accepting it :(

Well that answer was very appropriate, considering you were trying to wind me up and I am not having it. I have already made enough posts on the subject as to why is the case and no my opinion hasn't changed.

Betty
04-17-2008, 06:55 PM
Belgian !!

:eek:what a keen eye:worship::p

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:55 PM
Belgian !!

Shall I teach you :aplot: :aplot: ??? I'm in the mood :banana:

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 06:56 PM
maar hij is zeker geen strekenventje zene. heel toffe gast
:cuckoo: allee, joh.

Martine, ik denk dat ge teveel binnen hebt. :p

martine2
04-17-2008, 06:58 PM
:cuckoo: allee, joh.

Martine, ik denk dat ge teveel binnen hebt. :p

Da's waar :secret:

Maar ik meen wat ik zeg trouwens (ook nuchter :p )

elessar
04-17-2008, 07:00 PM
Well that answer was very appropriate, considering you were trying to wind me up and I am not having it. I have already made enough posts on the subject as to why is the case and no my opinion hasn't changed.

Il n'y a que les imbéciles qui ne changent pas d'avis :angel:

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:02 PM
Il n'y a que les imbéciles qui ne changent pas d'avis :angel:

C'est vrai ma chère ;)

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:03 PM
Il n'y a que les imbéciles qui ne changent pas d'avis :angel:

At least I don't believe in fairy tales like Federer actually giving a shit about Davis Cup. Or Federer has the best 1 hand backhand in the game. You must have been getting some quality drugs from the Netherlands or your brilliance is that overwhelming no universe could capture it.

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 07:04 PM
Shall I teach you :aplot: :aplot: ??? I'm in the mood :banana:
Is it like French i see :scratch:

my che're :kiss:

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:04 PM
At least I don't believe in fairy tales like Federer actually giving a shit about Davis Cup.

Fed isn't worthy of DC. Thinks of his own profit only

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:05 PM
Is it like French i see :scratch:

my che're :kiss:

For you it's any language you like :aplot:

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 07:06 PM
Maar ik meen wat ik zeg trouwens (ook nuchter :p )
Zotte mie!

Tja, smaken verschillen, zeker? Voor mij blijft het een showkikkertje. Veel gekwaak, klein beestje. ('k zal maar stoppen alvorens ik op uw zenuwen werk)

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:09 PM
Is it like French i see :scratch:



It's Flemish the language of love.

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:10 PM
It's Flemish the language of love.

for me it's spanish or french...:p

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 07:12 PM
for me it's spanish or french...:p
ha...shows what you know. ;)





For me, it's Italian.

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:13 PM
ha...shows what you know. ;)





For me, it's Italian.

:lol:

je t'aime:lol: french
te amo spanish
sound cool no:cool::p

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:17 PM
Zotte mie!

Tja, smaken verschillen, zeker? Voor mij blijft het een showkikkertje. Veel gekwaak, klein beestje. ('k zal maar stoppen alvorens ik op uw zenuwen werk)

Neeje
Met wa wijn kan heb ik geen zenuwen :p
En ik blijf erbij dat hij ok is ;)

It's Flemish the language of love.

:p would you understand if I told you some :aplot: :o

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:17 PM
Afrikaans is the true language of love.

I mean this just looks romantic. Sit jou kop in die koei se kont en wag tot die bul jou kom holnaai

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:18 PM
:eek:Neeje
Met wa wijn kan heb ik geen zenuwen :p
En ik blijf erbij dat hij ok is ;)



:p would you understand if I told you some :aplot: :o

marti,:eek::eek::eek::eek::p

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 07:19 PM
For you it's any language you like :aplot:the language of Ned ;)

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 07:20 PM
I mean this just looks romantic. Sit jou kop in die koei se kont en wag tot die bul jou kom holnaai
:rolls:


Really romantic :inlove:

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:21 PM
Afrikaans is the true language of love.

I mean this just looks romantic. Sit jou kop in die koei se kont en wag tot die bul jou kom holnaai

:lol: this stupid Flemish girl understands this haha (Zuid-Afrikaans is so close to Flemish :p )

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:22 PM
the language of Ned ;)

:inlove: The NED video!!!!

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:25 PM
Well, it has to be a talent to chat up women using Afrikaans.

Siug aan my aambeie en wag vir beter dae. That is such a winning line as well.

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:26 PM
Well, it has to be a talent to chat up women using Afrikaans.

Siug aan my aambeie en wag vir beter dae. That is such a winning line as well.

Understand that too :p but no matter how much I like you, sorry I wouldn't do that :p

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 07:27 PM
:inlove: The NED video!!!!:lol::lol: its a classic isnt it !

acionescu
04-17-2008, 07:28 PM
Puschkin, so why didnt Richard want to play on Sunday? finally is he feeling ashamed of the robbery he did to Murray in Bercy last November 2nd at 21:58 PM ????

I think that Richard shall pay all of his life for that mistake! :o :(



OMG, just shut up.I spent the last three days, to contradict the most stupid posts on this subject, in English and French.

Try him in NED. It's the language that he understands better! :shrug:

It's nothing bad, she looks too beautiful....like an improved version of Jessica Alba

Translation: she's bigger then a normal pregnant woman :o


Seeing as I think Stephen Lee looks like a combination of a hamster and a pig,

I think that too, but I forgive him because one of his sons is named Ronnie :hatoff( fangirlism at its best :bowdown: )



so mine...is not english

Your English :scratch: :lol: ;)

Hanescu nu fourte bine :(

Hanescu nu foarte bine :sad:

Hi all! :wavey:

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 07:30 PM
Andreea, typical Gasquet fan :rolleyes::ras:

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:32 PM
I



Your English :scratch: :lol: ;)
:

:sad::sad:so much compliment today...to my person,to my english :awww:


:haha: hy hun :hug:

acionescu
04-17-2008, 07:33 PM
Andreea, typical Gasquet fan :rolleyes::ras:

God forbidden! :scared: What gave you that idea? :spit:

acionescu
04-17-2008, 07:35 PM
:sad::sad:so much compliment today...to my person,to my english :awww:


:haha: hy hun :hug:

Hi Bet! :kiss:

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:37 PM
all ok? has peter gone to school without problem?

martine2
04-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Mikey come to msn??? :awww:

acionescu
04-17-2008, 07:40 PM
all ok? has peter gone to school without problem?

Not really but I'm so tired about this, I don't even want to talk about it! :o Everybody is telling me to have patience that all the children have the same story in the first year of daycare but it's getting to my nerves! :fiery:

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:41 PM
casta,abt grep, thk :hug:i try:p but i hiding well;)

Betty
04-17-2008, 07:42 PM
Not really but I'm so tired about this, I don't even want to talk about it! :o Everybody is telling me to have patience that all the children have the same story in the first year of daycare but it's getting to my nerves! :fiery:

here too,everyone says it..we'll see next year:scared:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:45 PM
:lol::lol: its a classic isnt it !

Seen it so many times, but still funny.

The below video isn't bad, but poor compared to the Wee Man.

fPH1k4hVM1o

yana
04-17-2008, 07:46 PM
Hello all! :)

Sooooo, what did I missed? Hane lost? :eek:

bokehlicious
04-17-2008, 08:12 PM
At least I don't believe in fairy tales like Federer actually giving a shit about Davis Cup. Or Federer has the best 1 hand backhand in the game. You must have been getting some quality drugs from the Netherlands or your brilliance is that overwhelming no universe could capture it.

I love it when you write about the Fed, you never fail to be funny :D

elessar
04-17-2008, 08:29 PM
At least I don't believe in fairy tales like Federer actually giving a shit about Davis Cup. Or Federer has the best 1 hand backhand in the game. You must have been getting some quality drugs from the Netherlands or your brilliance is that overwhelming no universe could capture it.
That must be it :cool:
I love it when you write about the Fed, you never fail to be funny :D
It's sad to have watched so much tennis and still not to be able to see what's so obvious to everyone :sad: I mean, I've been watching tennis since Roger beat Rafa in the wimbledon final and even I can see Roger has the best BH of all time :inlove:

Betty
04-17-2008, 08:39 PM
claire:wavey:
JM :inlove: :lol: don't u play anymore with adam?

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 08:40 PM
I love it when you write about the Fed, you never fail to be funny :D

Well at least I don't criticise his nationality unlike certain fanbases, whose leaders probably have money in Swiss banks.

Claire, the trolling has ceased being funny now.

bokehlicious
04-17-2008, 08:55 PM
Well at least I don't criticise his nationality unlike certain fanbases, whose leaders probably have money in Swiss banks.


True :o

That said I'm sure you enjoy watching Fed when he's in Jesus mode, as a true fan of the game :)

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 08:56 PM
Well that answer was very appropriate, considering you were trying to wind me up and I am not having it. I have already made enough posts on the subject as to why is the case and no my opinion hasn't changed.
I wasn't trying to wind you up, it was a genuine question. I appreciate you don't think he's the best clay courter ever, I was asking what he needs to do to change your opinion. I think that's a fair question :)
Afrikaans is the true language of love.

I mean this just looks romantic. Sit jou kop in die koei se kont en wag tot die bul jou kom holnaai
Afrikaans is a horrible language :o

"Howzit brew" :silly:
Hanescu nu foarte bine :sad:

Hi all! :wavey:
Oooh I was close! :p

Adam nu prost :D
JM :inlove: :lol: don't u play anymore with adam?
It never works anymore :bigcry: we should try again soon though :armed:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 08:57 PM
True :o

That said I'm sure you enjoy watching Fed when he's in Jesus mode, as a true fan of the game :)

Well that lesson he gave Hewitt in the US Open final. Lleyton didn't do much wrong, but he had a sore neck watching the ball going past him.

acionescu
04-17-2008, 09:02 PM
It's sad to have watched so much tennis and still not to be able to see what's so obvious to everyone :sad: I mean, I've been watching tennis since Roger beat Rafa in the wimbledon final and even I can see Roger has the best BH of all time :inlove:

What of the two? ;)

claire:wavey:
JM don't u play anymore with adam?

I think that JM playing COD with Adam is becoming something like an "urban legend": it happened long time ago, no one could tell exactly when, but we're still talking about it! :)


Claire, the trolling has ceased being funny now.

Trolling ceased to be funny since Djokovic is a Top Ten player! :o :(

elessar
04-17-2008, 09:06 PM
Claire, the trolling has ceased being funny now.
:sad:
What of the two? ;)

The second :inlove:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 09:08 PM
I wasn't trying to wind you up, it was a genuine question. I appreciate you don't think he's the best clay courter ever, I was asking what he needs to do to change your opinion. I think that's a fair question :)

He's got a very long way to go, but wait to the end of his career, then there is a much better indication.


Afrikaans is a horrible language :o

Wooing women using Afrikaans, that takes skill. I mean phrases like gaan kak in die mielies and the others I used before prove it. I mean bad Dutch, French and German mixed together, can't really lose.

acionescu
04-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Oooh I was close! :p

Adam nu prost :D



Adam nu este prost. :hatoff:

Merton
04-17-2008, 09:10 PM
:wavey: everybody.

Funny to see the debate over Roger at DC and bumping the thread about Americans on clay. :lol:

Adam, in my mind Nadal is now roughly where Guga is, both have 3RG titles, Guga's era was more competitive but Nadal has better consistency. If he wins this year at RG he will move past Guga but he will still be behind Wilander-Lendl, considering that those two had to face each other. Borg is still way out of the horizon, considering how quickly things can change (see Ferrero, Coria, Gaudio as recent examples) there is really no point in bringing "best ever on clay" discussions about Nadal right now.

It is the same with GOAT discussions, they started quite inappropriately for Roger after the 2004 US Open. Obviously it is even more hilarious to see Djokovic entering in the GOAT discussion now.

acionescu
04-17-2008, 09:12 PM
The second :inlove:

The second :sad: :mad: :banghead: :sobbing: :tears: :crying2: :bigcry:
*arethereanymoremoaningsmilies*

Merton
04-17-2008, 09:16 PM
It's sad to have watched so much tennis and still not to be able to see what's so obvious to everyone :sad: I mean, I've been watching tennis since Roger beat Rafa in the wimbledon final and even I can see Roger has the best BH of all time :inlove:

Surprising then that you are not a Djokovic fan, he has been the GOAT since then. :awww: Not to mention that he has proven the inherent superiority of the double-handed backhand. Just hope he faces Almagro when Mucho is on fire, then we will get to see the perfect example of what a superior backhand does :D.

acionescu
04-17-2008, 09:17 PM
It is the same with GOAT discussions, they started quite inappropriately for Roger after the 2004 US Open. Obviously it is even more hilarious to see Djokovic entering in the GOAT discussion now.

OK, nobody speaks seriously about Nole beeing the future GOAT! :shrug: :secret: Maybe just him to himself in his wet dreams

EDIT:Something is wrong with my settings :lol:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 09:20 PM
Surprising then that you are not a Djokovic fan, he has been the GOAT since then. :awww: Not to mention that he has proven the inherent superiority of the double-handed backhand. Just hope he faces Almagro when Mucho is on fire, then we will get to see the perfect example of what a superior backhand does :D.

Would have been a big Nalbandian fan as well.

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 09:23 PM
I think that JM playing COD with Adam is becoming something like an "urban legend": it happened long time ago, no one could tell exactly when, but we're still talking about it! :)
:spit: :lol:
He's got a very long way to go, but wait to the end of his career, then there is a much better indication.
Must we wait? I'll be 35 by the end of his career (hopefully) and be too old to remember how to use a computer :(

I mean....say he wins RG for the next 2 years and loses 0 or 1 match on clay in the entire 2 years, winning several TMS on the way. Would that be enough to satisfy you?

The way I see it is this - you clearly appreciated tennis 20 odd years or so ago than you do now. As such, you don't rate the players of today as highly, and will not give them full credit for their accomplishments.
Adam nu este prost. :hatoff:
Close again :sobbing:
Adam, in my mind Nadal is now roughly where Guga is, both have 3RG titles, Guga's era was more competitive but Nadal has better consistency. If he wins this year at RG he will move past Guga but he will still be behind Wilander-Lendl, considering that those two had to face each other. Borg is still way out of the horizon, considering how quickly things can change (see Ferrero, Coria, Gaudio as recent examples) there is really no point in bringing "best ever on clay" discussions about Nadal right now.
Nadal has won the same number of RG titles as Guga, but he's surely considerably more dominant than Guga ever was, taking into account TMS titles and that incredible winning streak. Would you not say there are more "clay court specialists" around than ever before? Seeing as the rest of the pack is very close, I don't think it's unreasonable to say maybe it's because Nadal is so incredibly good that he wins everything rather than the poor competition.

elessar
04-17-2008, 09:32 PM
Surprising then that you are not a Djokovic fan, he has been the GOAT since then. :awww: Not to mention that he has proven the inherent superiority of the double-handed backhand. Just hope he faces Almagro when Mucho is on fire, then we will get to see the perfect example of what a superior backhand does :D.

I don't care about results I just look at the talent :hearts: and Roger is clearly the GTOAT.

Yes such a shame Mucho doesn't have a two hander, he could have had a decent BH :sad:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 09:33 PM
Must we wait? I'll be 35 by the end of his career (hopefully) and be too old to remember how to use a computer :(

I mean....say he wins RG for the next 2 years and loses 0 or 1 match on clay in the entire 2 years, winning several TMS on the way. Would that be enough to satisfy you?

The way I see it is this - you clearly appreciated tennis 15 years or so ago than you do now. As such, you don't rate the players of today as highly, and will not give them full credit for their accomplishments.


Yes, the game has completely changed and lots of things can happen. No, those numbers won't do that much. Borg had Vilas, Lendl had Wilander competed against each other, that is a higher level on clay than Nadal has to compete against.

Far from it. Guga wasn't around 15 years and I give him full credit for what he has done, this is the same for Federer and even the prick Agassi.

If you read what Merton and I said a while ago in the thread, then you'd get where I was coming from. There are less claycourt specialists, much less, but that's always going to be the way, when the speed of surfaces are narrowing. This allows hardcourt tennis to be able to be played on clay easily, whereas before this was not the case. Andreev and Almagro are the only ones besides Nadal that actually play a claycourt style of tennis. The others don't, plus the guys that should have been competing with Nadal as Merton mentioned haven't been there for a multitude of reasons and this has left a void.

Guga had much better playing depth. This is the thing people forget in some ways, it goes forward and in other ways sports regress. I will give you an example.

In the late 80s up to 2000, the mens high jump was at a great level of depth, yes you had the main man Soto, who still has the best heights today. But that generation was a special one and had a lot of good jumpers and unless it was very poor conditions, then it took excellent heights to win. Since 2000, it has regressed and only showing some very slow recovery signs.

All this says is that, in some ways things should go forward, the specific talent pool doesn't always.

Merton
04-17-2008, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=adee-gee;6895144Nadal has won the same number of RG titles as Guga, but he's surely considerably more dominant than Guga ever was, taking into account TMS titles and that incredible winning streak. Would you not say there are more "clay court specialists" around than ever before? Seeing as the rest of the pack is very close, I don't think it's unreasonable to say maybe it's because Nadal is so incredibly good that he wins everything rather than the poor competition.[/QUOTE]

For sure Nadal has been more dominant, and by the way the 5-set winning streak is more important than the 81-wins streak imo, but look at some of Guga's losses from 99-01: Rios, Medvedev, Norman, Hewitt, Ferrero. Also look at the players that were around in 2000. No comparison with Nadal today. As I said, competition roughly balances consistence in my mind. If Nadal wins at RG this year he will move ahead.

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Yes, the game has completely changed and lots of things can happen. No, those numbers won't do that much. Borg had Vilas, Lendl and Wilander competed against each other, that is a higher level on clay than Nadal has to compete against.

Far from it. Guga wasn't around 15 years and I give him full credit for what he has done, this is the same for Federer and even the prick Agassi.

If you read what Merton and I said a while ago in the thread, then you'd get where I was coming from. There are less claycourt specialists, much less, but that's always going to be the way, when the speed of surfaces are narrowing. This allows hardcourt tennis to be able to be played on clay easily, whereas before this was not the case. Andreev and Almagro are the only ones besides Nadal that actually play a claycourt style of tennis. The others don't, plus the guys that should have been competing with Nadal as Merton mentioned haven't been there for a multitude of reasons and this has left a void.

Guga had much better playing depth. This is the thing people forget in some ways, it goes forward and in other ways sports regress. I will give you an example.

In the late 80s up to 2000, the mens high jump was at a great level of depth, yes you had the main man Soto, who still has the best heights today. But that generation was a special one and had a lot of good jumpers and unless it was very poor conditions, then it took excellent heights to win. Since 2000, it has regressed and only showing some very slow recovery signs.

All this says is that, in some ways things should go forward, the specific talent pool doesn't always.
It isn't Nadal's fault if he hasn't got a "tennis legend" to play against on clay. I don't think this can be used against him.

You'd say there's less clay court specialists than ever? I see what you mean about playing a clay court style, but surely people like Chela, Ferrer, Robredo who can all play on hard courts are still essentially clay court specialists.

Can't you just answer the question of what he would need to do to make you think he was the greatest clay courter of all time? :sobbing: Are you basically saying even if he wins RG for the next 7 years you wouldn't be convinced because the competition isn't good enough?

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 09:42 PM
Having watched tennis off and on since the beginning of the stone age or rather, the 80s, it's my opinion that comparing players from different eras/decades/generations is POINTLESS because there's a variety of elements you simply can not put into consideration but I've experienced that men like to do such exercises so...

... carry on, gentlemen.:cool:

martine2
04-17-2008, 09:44 PM
Back again (sober now :o :p )

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 09:50 PM
Yes, the game has completely changed and lots of things can happen. No, those numbers won't do that much. Borg had Vilas, Lendl and Wilander competed against each other, that is a higher level on clay than Nadal has to compete against.
Wilander?
Wilander peaked later, didn't he? Borg only played once against Mats.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 09:51 PM
It isn't Nadal's fault if he hasn't got a "tennis legend" to play against on clay. I don't think this can be used against him.

You'd say there's less clay court specialists than ever? I see what you mean about playing a clay court style, but surely people like Chela, Ferrer, Robredo who can all play on hard courts are still essentially clay court specialists.

Can't you just answer the question of what he would need to do to make you think he was the greatest clay courter of all time? :sobbing: Are you basically saying even if he wins RG for the next 7 years you wouldn't be convinced because the competition isn't good enough?

Any particular reason that you bought this up now? I told you I didn't want to discuss it and my feelings are already known on it. So why bring it up, unless you are trying to take the piss?

It does count against him. I can look good playing in a shit level in any sport, that makes me look better. When the overall level is higher, then you get a better indication of their abilities. These greats had people pushing them on that surface, where are Nadal's challengers? He gets more of a challenge on the Play Station.

There are less claycourt specialists around these days and it's understandable. Chela is better on hardcourts than clay, Ferrer is about the same and Robredo, they aren't in the class, as tough and as determined as they are.

Did you read what I said. Wait until he retires, then it will be a lot easier to judge and I have said why this is the case. He could lose his speed and confidence, have some more injuries, that impact on him. It's a great unknown, so let his career pan out and then work from there. That's the answer you are getting.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 09:53 PM
Wilander?
Wilander's peaked later, didn't he? Borg only played once against Mats.

I meant Lendl and Wilander had each other as rivals on clay, it was a typo.

As for this discussion, I actually didn't want to have it, as it has gone over old ground.

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 09:58 PM
Any particular reason that you bought this up now? I told you I didn't want to discuss it and my feelings are already known on it. So why bring it up, unless you are trying to take the piss?

It does count against him. I can look good playing in a shit level in any sport, that makes me look better. When the overall level is higher, then you get a better indication of their abilities. These greats had people pushing them on that surface, where are Nadal's challengers? He gets more of a challenge on the Play Station.

There are less claycourt specialists around these days and it's understandable. Chela is better on hardcourts than clay, Ferrer is about the same and Robredo, they aren't in the class, as tough and as determined as they are.

Did you read what I said. Wait until he retires, then it will be a lot easier to judge and I have said why this is the case. He could lose his speed and confidence, have some more injuries, that impact on him. It's a great unknown, so let his career pan out and then work from there. That's the answer you are getting.
What makes you think I'm taking the piss, I'm not Claire :mad: It was an honest question, all it needed was a one sentence response :shrug:

I'd say that's very harsh to hold that against him. In fact, if you're saying the competition for Nadal on clay is weak, I'd be intrigued to know your feelings on Federer's opponents on hard and grass (until GOAT Djokovic came along).

When he retires, you'll undoubtedly say the same, no matter what he achieves. That's why I was trying to get some measure of what he needs to do to sway you.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 10:12 PM
What makes you think I'm taking the piss, I'm not Claire :mad: It was an honest question, all it needed was a one sentence response :shrug:

I'd say that's very harsh to hold that against him. In fact, if you're saying the competition for Nadal on clay is weak, I'd be intrigued to know your feelings on Federer's opponents on hard and grass (until GOAT Djokovic came along).

When he retires, you'll undoubtedly say the same, no matter what he achieves. That's why I was trying to get some measure of what he needs to do to sway you.

The timing is suspect. The facts are as talented and as great as Nadal is on clay, the overall level of clay tennis is down, for reasons I have stated. Why else do you think people are getting hardons about how much heavy topspin Nadal gets? It has been done before and he wasn't the first, but as great as the shot is, it gets overhyped. The players of today aren't used to it, when it was commonplace previously.

Federer, well with the grass, it's not like he faces genuine grasscourt players either, but he'd be able to win in any era, just like Nadal. The question is to what level would they have success, this is the great unknown.

Casta, said it, there are certain things that can't be measured, yet they have to be taken into count, technology, game style, how the surfaces have changed, overall depth.

No, it's bullshit. I never said Guga was the greatest clay player when he was playing, never said the same about Muster when he was full flight. I didn' t even say that about Sampras when he was punishing his opponents. This is why it's better to let them play it out and then see what happens.

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 10:24 PM
I'd be intrigued to know your feelings on Federer's opponents on hard Hewitt, Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Roddick, Haas, Djokovic..

plenty of proven winners on HC in these last few years compared to clay, thats for sure.

Castafiore
04-17-2008, 10:50 PM
Hewitt, Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Roddick, Haas, Djokovic..

plenty of proven winners on HC in these last few years compared to clay, thats for sure.
:lol: If you have to bring in Hewitt, Agassi, Safin, Haas and add "in these last few years": you know that you have a weak argument, Mikey.


If we're being silly, we might as well use a list for Nadal like:
Moya, former RG champ
Agassi, former RG champ
Gaudio, former RG champ
A. Costa, former RG champ
Coria, RG runner up
Federer, GOAT.:cool:

acionescu
04-17-2008, 10:53 PM
Got to go now! Good night, all! Mikey, in two days is snooker time! I hope we'll have a chance to chat about the results! :armed:

acionescu
04-17-2008, 10:55 PM
OMG, how much weight Charles Barkley put on! :eek: he looks like Mirka! :o

Gldngrl
04-17-2008, 11:03 PM
On the subject of great claycourters, I don't think Nadal is THE greatest. I watched every match I could of Guga's, and have to say he clearly had more talent, finesse, and exquisite touch. Nadal has talent for sure, but his is more a game of grit and determination. He's scrappy. I also like that he's making a great effort on grass, unlike Kuerten who gave grass a half-assed try, then said screw it. Hardcourt is where he did the most harm to himself I believe. His skinny frame offered little shock absorbent for the jarring abuse of a hardcourt. Playing on hardcourt shortened his claycourt career. I don’t want to see that happen to Rafa.

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 11:49 PM
:lol: If you have to bring in Hewitt, Agassi, Safin, Haas and add "in these last few years": you know that you have a weak argument, Mikey.


If we're being silly, we might as well use a list for Nadal like:
Moya, former RG champ
Agassi, former RG champ
Gaudio, former RG champ
A. Costa, former RG champ
Coria, RG runner up
Federer, GOAT.:cool:What i was meaning is ...

from 2003-2006 most of the names i mentioned were still top players, maybe not at their 100% best ... but Safin beat Fed in a slam - and Hewitt, Ferrero, Agassi, Roddick, Haas, Nalbandian gave him some tough battles on the way to some other slams ....... players who at some point have all gave him troubles and acchieved some great things in their own right

Nadal has never had such 'problems' - he's been undisputed top dog from day one in his clay career... least Fed had big challenges to overcome against players who know how to (and have) beat him.

adee-gee
04-17-2008, 11:52 PM
The timing is suspect. The facts are as talented and as great as Nadal is on clay, the overall level of clay tennis is down, for reasons I have stated. Why else do you think people are getting hardons about how much heavy topspin Nadal gets? It has been done before and he wasn't the first, but as great as the shot is, it gets overhyped. The players of today aren't used to it, when it was commonplace previously.

Federer, well with the grass, it's not like he faces genuine grasscourt players either, but he'd be able to win in any era, just like Nadal. The question is to what level would they have success, this is the great unknown.

Casta, said it, there are certain things that can't be measured, yet they have to be taken into count, technology, game style, how the surfaces have changed, overall depth.

No, it's bullshit. I never said Guga was the greatest clay player when he was playing, never said the same about Muster when he was full flight. I didn' t even say that about Sampras when he was punishing his opponents. This is why it's better to let them play it out and then see what happens.
I don't dispute that the standard might be lower, I'm just dubious as to whether this can be used as an argument. If someone is the best, they're the best regardless of who they play (you'd expect them to beat whoever is put in front of them).

But anyway, like Nadal a top class claycourter such as Muster, you've managed to grind me down and I can handle no more :sad:

Goodnight. You still haven't answered the question though btw :(
Hewitt, Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Roddick, Haas, Djokovic..

plenty of proven winners on HC in these last few years compared to clay, thats for sure.
:lol: you can't destroy Roddick's achievements when it suits you then try to use them in a positive light for this debate. And since when has Haas been a proven winner on HC? :scratch: Safin never stuck around long enough at the top, Hewitt and Agassi were finished by the time Federer hit full stride, and Djokovic has only just come onto the scene.

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 11:57 PM
If we're being silly, we might as well use a list for Nadal like:
Moya, former RG champ
Agassi, former RG champ
Gaudio, former RG champ
A. Costa, former RG champ
Coria, RG runner up
Federer, GOAT.Other than Moya who bent over for him in Qf's last year, and Fed obviously, has Rafatitio faced any of them at RG.. or even when they were at their best? nope.

least Fedex has overcame some tough customers to win his HC slams - and now add Djokovic in there after that US Open F last year.

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 12:03 AM
Nadal has never had such 'problems' - he's been undisputed top dog from day one in his clay career... least Fed had big challenges to overcome against players who know how to (and have) beat him.
......because Nadal is the real GOAT, no-one can get close to him :cool:
Other than Moya who bent over for him in Qf's last year, and Fed obviously, has Rafatitio faced any of them at RG.. or even when they were at their best? nope.

least Fedex has overcame some tough customers to win his HC slams - and now add Djokovic in there after that US Open F last year.
He's played Coria when Guille was in his prime, not at RG but a couple of best of 5 set matches, they were unreal.

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 12:05 AM
:lol: you can't destroy Roddick's achievements when it suits you then try to use them in a positive light for this debate. And since when has Haas been a proven winner on HC? :scratch: Safin never stuck around long enough at the top, Hewitt and Agassi were finished by the time Federer hit full stride, and Djokovic has only just come onto the scene.I havnt destroyed A-rod's achievments at all but facts show he gave Fed a tough Final at Wimbledon in 2004, having been a GS champ & no.1 in his own right... and my point about Haas is that he's a top class HC player... proven many times at Aussie and US opens, olympic Finalist and beaten Fed at the AO once and almost again in 2006

Agassi was still a top player in 04 and 05 and Hewitt probably played his best tennis in 2004 as well

cant just say they were clowns past it just because Federer was taking them out in 04 and 05. (having spent years losing to them before he hit his stride)

even Henman was another troublesome opponent - good record v Fed, beat him in slams etc

what i'm saying is Fed has overcame plenty of top players for his HC domination he had -
and wasnt just giving it all on a plate as you seemed to suggest to Whitler.

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 12:09 AM
Look at the last 4 players Fed took out to win AO in 2004 - Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ferrero and Safin

what a beast

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 12:13 AM
I havnt destroyed A-rod's achievments at all but facts show he gave Fed a tough Final at Wimbledon in 2004... and my point about Haas is that he's a top class HC player... proven many times at Aussie and US opens, olympic Finalist and beaten Fed at the AO once and almost again in 2006

Agassi was still a top player in 04 and 05 and Hewitt probably played his best tennis in 2004 as well

cant just say they were clowns past it just because Federer was taking them out in 04 and 05. (having spent years losing to them before he hit his stride)

even Henman was another troublesome opponent - good record v Fed, beat him in slams etc

what i'm saying is Fed has overcame plenty of top players for his HC domination he had -
and wasnt just giving it all on a plate as you seemed to suggest to Whitler.
Whitler was scathing in his views on players of the 00s decade. I was just wondering if it only applied to Nadal or whether it would to Federer as well :p

I've never seen you dish out any praise to Roddick, I'm pleasantly surprised ;) I think calling Haas a top class hard court player is a bit too kind, he's decent enough but I'd rate him no better than someone like a Ferrer on clay.

Hewitt's best tennis was 01/02 for a while, it was just after that FedGod came into play. Agassi was still good but not quite the player he was, and when Nadal's Canada TMS is brought up most Fedtards belittle the opposition, and Agassi was the beaten finalist.

Anyhoo, enough today for me, I'm off to bed....Night :hatoff:

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 12:27 AM
Well Agassi was still a top player on HC for me in 05... he almost beat Federer at the US Open twice remember... 2004 and 2005 .. one of them was a 5 setter, so i dont see why a Fedtard would belittle him therefore belitting Fed's wins over him in a tournament 100 times bigger than Montreal ;) with Roddick, all i've really done is laugh at Fed's record v him over the years :D .. never really belittled his titles/accomplishments - altho i dont care to remember August till October 2003.

i think Hewitt himself once said in 2004 he was a better player than when he was no.1 - maybe need to find that quote to see if i remember it right.

and Ferrer for me will never reach 3 HC slam Semis, and 3 more quarters.

Haas was once #2 as well remember.

l_mac
04-18-2008, 12:57 AM
Jesus Fuck.
I am not like you, who thinks tennis started in 2005.
No, but you think it finished round about 2001, which is just as :retard:
I wasn't trying to wind you up, it was a genuine question. I appreciate you don't think he's the best clay courter ever, I was asking what he needs to do to change your opinion. I think that's a fair question :)

He needs to sart losing a few matches, let someone else win RG and a couple of the Master's Series titles and somehow this will make him appear "better". If he wins everything, it just means weak clay era and Nadal is the best of a bad bunch :zzz:

Adam, in my mind Nadal is now roughly where Guga is, both have 3RG titles, Guga's era was more competitive but Nadal has better consistency. If he wins this year at RG he will move past Guga but he will still be behind Wilander-Lendl, considering that those two had to face each other. Borg is still way out of the horizon, considering how quickly things can change (see Ferrero, Coria, Gaudio as recent examples) there is really no point in bringing "best ever on clay" discussions about Nadal right now.

It is ridiculous to compare Nadal to Ferrero, Coria or Gaudio as he is so obviously in a different league in consistency/mental strength/results. If he wins this year at RG he will be ahead of Wilander and Lendl.
:I mean....say he wins RG for the next 2 years and loses 0 or 1 match on clay in the entire 2 years, winning several TMS on the way. Would that be enough to satisfy you?
His answer is no. However if Almagro grows a pair, beats Nadal at RG this year and then Rafa comes back and wins in 2009 that will maybe push him up on George's list behind Muster and Vilas.

The way I see it is this - you clearly appreciated tennis 20 odd years or so ago than you do now. As such, you don't rate the players of today as highly, and will not give them full credit for their accomplishments.
:worship:

Nadal has won the same number of RG titles as Guga, but he's surely considerably more dominant than Guga ever was, taking into account TMS titles and that incredible winning streak. Would you not say there are more "clay court specialists" around than ever before? Seeing as the rest of the pack is very close, I don't think it's unreasonable to say maybe it's because Nadal is so incredibly good that he wins everything rather than the poor competition.
:worship:
Yes, the game has completely changed and lots of things can happen. No, those numbers won't do that much. Borg had Vilas, Lendl had Wilander competed against each other, that is a higher level on clay than Nadal has to compete against.

Far from it. Guga wasn't around 15 years and I give him full credit for what he has done, this is the same for Federer and even the prick Agassi.

If you read what Merton and I said a while ago in the thread, then you'd get where I was coming from. There are less claycourt specialists, much less, but that's always going to be the way, when the speed of surfaces are narrowing. This allows hardcourt tennis to be able to be played on clay easily, whereas before this was not the case. Andreev and Almagro are the only ones besides Nadal that actually play a claycourt style of tennis. The others don't, plus the guys that should have been competing with Nadal as Merton mentioned haven't been there for a multitude of reasons and this has left a void.

Guga had much better playing depth. This is the thing people forget in some ways, it goes forward and in other ways sports regress.

So what you are saying is that for you Nadal will never be in the same league as Borg, or Lendl or Wilander :retard:
It isn't Nadal's fault if he hasn't got a "tennis legend" to play against on clay. I don't think this can be used against him.

You'd say there's less clay court specialists than ever? I see what you mean about playing a clay court style, but surely people like Chela, Ferrer, Robredo who can all play on hard courts are still essentially clay court specialists.

Can't you just answer the question of what he would need to do to make you think he was the greatest clay courter of all time? :sobbing: Are you basically saying even if he wins RG for the next 7 years you wouldn't be convinced because the competition isn't good enough?
Yes,that is exactly what he is saying. You can see why so many of MTF :worship: at his objective tennis analysis.On the subject of great claycourters, I don't think Nadal is THE greatest. I watched every match I could of Guga's, and have to say he clearly had more talent, finesse, and exquisite touch. Nadal has talent for sure, but his is more a game of grit and determination. He's scrappy. I also like that he's making a great effort on grass, unlike Kuerten who gave grass a half-assed try, then said screw it.
Gritty lucky bastard this Nadal :mad:

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 01:00 AM
See what happens when you're not here Linda, ppl talk tennis

even i got sucked in tonight :sobbing:

l_mac
04-18-2008, 01:09 AM
See what happens when you're not here Linda, ppl talk tennis

even i got sucked in tonight :sobbing:

A travesty! :mad:

Great QF line-up of clay clowns in Valencia.

No chance MonoFed wins his QF tomorrow fedtards :hug: What a horrendous draw :sad:

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 01:13 AM
Thankfully he has a QF to play, thanks to my newly titled "AVY SAVEY" ;)

Johnny Groove
04-18-2008, 01:18 AM
If Nadal won RG for 30 years straight GWH would still say he wasnt the best ever on clay.

Merton
04-18-2008, 02:03 AM
What i was meaning is ...

from 2003-2006 most of the names i mentioned were still top players, maybe not at their 100% best ... but Safin beat Fed in a slam - and Hewitt, Ferrero, Agassi, Roddick, Haas, Nalbandian gave him some tough battles on the way to some other slams ....... players who at some point have all gave him troubles and acchieved some great things in their own right

Nadal has never had such 'problems' - he's been undisputed top dog from day one in his clay career... least Fed had big challenges to overcome against players who know how to (and have) beat him.

I agree, the level of competition in hard courts is not inferior relative to past years. As for Hewitt, I think he peaked between summer of 04 and the AO in 05.

Look at the last 4 players Fed took out to win AO in 2004 - Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ferrero and Safin

what a beast

That match Federer-Nalbandian has been overlooked imo, Nalbandian was in superb form and Federer had to serve like a beast on that day. Very close match.

It is ridiculous to compare Nadal to Ferrero, Coria or Gaudio as he is so obviously in a different league in consistency/mental strength/results. If he wins this year at RG he will be ahead of Wilander and Lendl.


Linda, I didn't make my point clear. I agree that there is no comparison between Nadal on the one hand and Ferrero, Coria or Gaudio on the other. Those three all faded prematurely and quite rapidly, for different reasons. Ferrero in 05 was no longer Ferrero in 03, he never managed that level. Coria forgot how to serve after the 2005 US Open. Gaudio went downhill after 2005. Those are all cautionary tales, the moral is that bad things can happen to anybody's career, so it is just premature to declare greatness before somebody is done. Just look at what somebody already has achieved, from that aspect Nadal is already a great on clay, it is just too soon to even compare him with Borg.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 07:59 AM
LOL at all the Rafatards that take the piss from George because he dares not acknowledge that Rafa is the undisputed clay GOAT :angel: :lol: :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 08:00 AM
I don't dispute that the standard might be lower, I'm just dubious as to whether this can be used as an argument. If someone is the best, they're the best regardless of who they play (you'd expect them to beat whoever is put in front of them).

But anyway, like Nadal a top class claycourter such as Muster, you've managed to grind me down and I can handle no more :sad:

Goodnight. You still haven't answered the question though btw :(


I have already answered the question and done so twice. Just because you don't like the answer I gave doesn't mean a thing.

If I bold it for you, will it make easier for you to read?

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 08:14 AM
Jesus Fuck.

No, but you think it finished round about 2001, which is just as :retard:


Far from it, I am not just not going to join the circle jerk that Nadal is the greatest clay courter of all time already, when there are lots of things can happen between now and when he retires. So I prefer to wait till his career is done.

He needs to sart losing a few matches, let someone else win RG and a couple of the Master's Series titles and somehow this will make him appear "better". If he wins everything, it just means weak clay era and Nadal is the best of a bad bunch :zzz:

Where are his claycourt challengers? When he has been pushed consistently by a great rival? That's right he doesn't. He does not have the competition on clay and that is not his fault, but if you deny that honestly, then you are kidding yourself.

IIf he wins this year at RG he will be ahead of Wilander and Lendl.

Hahahaha, how would he be ahead of Lendl semi objectively?

His answer is no. However if Almagro grows a pair, beats Nadal at RG this year and then Rafa comes back and wins in 2009 that will maybe push him up on George's list behind Muster and Vilas.

You don't even have a clue about where I would rate him. How about asking me directly?

So what you are saying is that for you Nadal will never be in the same league as Borg, or Lendl or Wilander :retard:

The thing is you aren't even remotely interested in what my actual view is. You just want to take cheap digs without offering anything in return.

Yes,that is exactly what he is saying. You can see why so many of MTF :worship: at his objective tennis analysis.

Poor Linda is put out, that I don't rate Nadal as the greatest already on clay. I almost feel for you, in fact I wish you could put me on ignore, it would make me so happy, but such is life it won't happen.

As for being objective. Considering I don't believe in 100 percent objectivity as the concept as it does not exist, by differing environmental experiences are going to impact on how things are viewed.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 08:14 AM
LOL at all the Rafatards that take the piss from George because he dares not acknowledge that Rafa is the undisputed clay GOAT :angel: :lol: :p

It's such a tragedy isn't it?

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 08:38 AM
LOL at all the Rafatards that take the piss from George because he dares not acknowledge that Rafa is the undisputed clay GOAT :angel: :lol: :p

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 08:41 AM
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. :p

Hehe, JM and I think get on quite well in general. So when are you heading over to Monaco?

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 08:44 AM
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. :p

George is not a Rafa hater. I find it amusing though that he isn't a fan, considering that he uses to like 99% of the moonballers.

Hehe, JM and I think get on quite well in general.

You're for sure one of the smartest guy around (despide being blind when it comes to Fed's bh :o :p)...

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 08:45 AM
LOL at all the Rafatards that take the piss from George because he dares not acknowledge that Rafa is the undisputed clay GOAT

I am not just not going to join the circle jerk that Nadal is the greatest clay courter of all time already, when there are lots of things can happen between now and when he retires. So I prefer to wait till his career is done.

:zzz:


Absolute and utter nonsense. Nobody in here asked to acknowledge that he's the undisputed clay GOAT.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 08:51 AM
George is not a Rafa hater....

I know, he is not a Fed-hater either, even if he sometimes tries hard to give that impression. ;)

My comment was more directed towards you.;)

So when are you heading over to Monaco?

Sunday, but I'll stay in Nice. I am feeling like a child before Xmas. So many players I like to watch, I fear I have to cut myself in the middle. Imagine I have to decide between: Safin practising, Santoro on a side-court and Gasquet on centre-court at the same time. Tough choices!

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:05 AM
George is not a Rafa hater. I find it amusing though that he isn't a fan, considering that he uses to like 99% of the moonballers.

You're for sure one of the smartest guy around (despide being blind when it comes to Fed's bh :o :p)...

Well there are quite of things I like about Rafa. He is still based at home, for a top sportsman I think he is quite humble and well grounded. I remember when he hit up with Muster, Wilander, he genuinely appreciated it.

Sure his English isn't that great, but when he came on tour, he could say only hello, he doesn't use a translator and has a go. He knows his game isn't suited to Wimbledon, but has made a conscious effort to do well on grass and has succeeded. I don't need to be a fan of him. He has enough of them already.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:07 AM
Absolute and utter nonsense. Nobody in here asked to acknowledge that he's the undisputed clay GOAT.

Then why get shitty, this is not directed you at all, when Merton and myself expressed caution or mild scepticism then about a subject, that has been done to death?

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 09:24 AM
My comment was more directed towards you.;)

I thought you were implying that I agreed with George because he's not fond of Rafa... And that is not true :shrug: :angel: :p

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 09:27 AM
Then why get shitty, this is not directed you at all, when Merton and myself expressed caution or mild scepticism then about a subject, that has been done to death?
I am? :confused: :shrug: Blame that on my morning temper. ;) I'm not a morning person and using public transport in a capital city during rush hour is just fantastic if you're just trying to wake up. So many people are incapable of following basic rules on how to use public transport. Last time, there was this old geezer in a packed subway who decided that he needed his own personal space. Which is fine but you don't get that much personal space on the subway during rush hour. So, the solution of this old man (who had amazing strength for a man of about 70 years old) was to stand locked on his place and shove people out of his way by using his sheer strength to keep people at a distance up to the point of nearly pushing me to the ground. So, I told him to stop that nonsense (in Flemish) He replied (in French) that he needed space. :rolleyes: I told him that he didn't need to push me to the ground so that he could have his "freedom". Moron.
[sorry, mini-rant on idiots using public transport]

Back on topic: I don't think it's fair to say that people here want to hear from you that Rafa is the clay goat. They haven't.
As far as the discussion is concerned, I'm trying to stay out of it exactly because I know your viewpoints so there's not much to discuss given the fact that you are not the sort of person to be easily swayed by others and I'm aware that you're not a Rafa hater.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:29 AM
Sunday, but I'll stay in Nice. I am feeling like a child before Xmas. So many players I like to watch, I fear I have to cut myself in the middle. Imagine I have to decide between: Safin practising, Santoro on a side-court and Gasquet on centre-court at the same time. Tough choices!

Nice, there is a bit more happening there than in Monte Carlo and not as expensive. One year I stayed in Monaco and the other year I stayed in Menton. They run quite extra trains during the event, so you will be fine.

They are a pretty knowledgeable crowd, so you should have fun. There are usually a lot of Italian fans as well, this year they have 3 players in the MD and they create some atmosphere.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 09:36 AM
Nice, there is a bit more happening there than in Monte Carlo and not as expensive. That's why I went for it.

They are a pretty knowledgeable crowd, so you should have fun. There are usually a lot of Italian fans as well, this year they have 3 players in the MD and they create some atmosphere.

Interesting. I did not expect that, but I somehow felt that MC would have a rather international crowd.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 09:39 AM
MC = poshest tennis event... :o

Funny that some of the Wimbledon haters quite like Monte Carlo on the other hand... :o

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:39 AM
I am? :confused: :shrug: Blame that on my morning temper. ;) I'm not a morning person and using public transport in a capital city during rush hour is just fantastic if you're just trying to wake up. So many people are incapable of following basic rules on how to use public transport. Last time, there was this old geezer in a packed subway who decided that he needed his own personal space. Which is fine but you don't get that much personal space on the subway during rush hour. So, the solution of this old man (who had amazing strength for a man of about 70 years old) was to stand locked on his place and shove people out of his way by using his sheer strength to keep people at a distance up to the point of nearly pushing me to the ground. So, I told him to stop that nonsense (in Flemish) He replied (in French) that he needed space. :rolleyes: I told him that he didn't need to push me to the ground so that he could have his "freedom". Moron.
[sorry, mini-rant on idiots using public transport]


I did say shitty, but not directed at you at all. I think that's fairly clear.

I didn't think you lived in Brussels, or do you live outside and have to travel into work there or something? Public transport in peak periods, it can be like cattle trains for sure, though in a lot of cities, the metro is quite efficient and have plenty of services, but even then peak periods will be peak period.

Lets say I am fortunate most of the jobs I had, I was fortunate and not had to use public transport in peak times. Yes, you will get the people that will have very loud phone conversations as well, the Japanese have the right idea, they have a carriage only for mobile phone users. You know when it's so packed, that someone has to fart as well, always a pleasure.

Back on topic: I don't think it's fair to say that people here want to hear from you that Rafa is the clay goat. They haven't.
As far as the discussion is concerned, I'm trying to stay out of it exactly because I know your viewpoints so there's not much to discuss given the fact that you are not the sort of person to be easily swayed by others and I'm aware that you're not a Rafa hater.

Then why all the bitching? Nothing I said about this subject is controversial, cautious yes. Like I said and you know, it's a subject that I am not that keen to talk about. You pretty much know what's going on in relation to this.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:41 AM
MC = poshest tennis event... :o

Funny that some of the Wimbledon haters quite like Monte Carlo on the other hand... :o

Gstaad is posher than MC and Queens is worse than Wimbledon in that regard for snobbishness.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 09:45 AM
do you live outside and have to travel into work there or something?
Yes, I don't live in Brussels but I work there.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 09:47 AM
I liked Wimbledon. But I was "forced". Taking part in the lottery for the first time and getting men's final tickets was special. But it is just so much better organised than Roland Garros where you have to queue to get it, to get a sandwich, to visit the rest-rooms....

I have been living in Brussels for three years and public transport is average, to put it mildly.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 09:47 AM
Gstaad is posher than MC

Not true. Gstaad is a posh village for sure but the tennis event crowd is not that snobbish (at least not worse than those tight arses that are noisy while eating their Chateaubriant au foie gras at MC :o)

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 09:49 AM
But it is just so much better organised than Roland Garros where you have to queue to get it, to get a sandwich, to visit the rest-rooms....

The Brits know how to run an important event, unlike the French :angel: :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:50 AM
That's why I went for it.

Interesting. I did not expect that, but I somehow felt that MC would have a rather international crowd.

I am not a big fan of the Riviera at all. It's funny just a bit further down from the Riveria is Languedoc-Roussillon. I love that region, the weather is just as nice, the people more down to earth, less tourists and significantly cheaper.

I remember a Davis Cup tie played in Nimes, between France and the Aussies. It was played in an old bullring, a young Santoro won the 5th match.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:52 AM
Not true. Gstaad is a posh village for sure but the tennis event crowd is not that snobbish (at least not worse than those tight arses that are noisy while eating their Chateaubriant au foie gras at MC :o)

Then again, when I was in Monte Carlo, they probably thought I was one of the street cleaners or hired help and not there to watch the tennis.

I used to call it Rainierstan, it's funny seeing all the 20 yr old fifis with these 50-60 year old dudes with white hair and Donatella Versace tans.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 09:52 AM
I am not a big fan of the Riviera at all. It's funny just a bit further down from the Riveria is Languedoc-Roussillon. I love that region, the weather is just as nice, the people more down to earth, less tourists and significantly cheaper.

I remember a Davis Cup tie played in Nimes, between France and the Aussies. It was played in an old bullring, a young Santoro won the 5th match.

Only problem with the region is that their accent is even worse than in the Rivieira :o :) I guess non native French speakers struggle with the accent...

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:53 AM
The Brits know how to run an important event, unlike the French :angel: :p

The French have a better rail system though.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:56 AM
Only problem with the region is that their accent is even worse than in the Rivieira :o :) I guess non native French speakers struggle with the accent...

You don't like the Occitan and Catalan influences then. I remember when I found out the Gypsy Kings are actually French, then I thought aha, it made more sense when I knew they were from that region.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 09:58 AM
I am not a big fan of the Riviera at all. It's funny just a bit further down from the Riveria is Languedoc-Roussillon. I love that region, the weather is just as nice, the people more down to earth, less tourists and significantly cheaper.

You know you are talking about Gasquet's home region? ;)

I liked both, Languedoc-Roussillon and the Provence whose hinterland is also nice and if you go there out of the main season it is fine as well. I agree with you on the riviera though, the place which I liked least (taken Languedoc-Roussillon and the Provence together ) was Cannes, not worth a visit, Hermes and Cartier shops, I can also find them in Vienna. ;)

Only problem with the region is that their accent is even worse than in the Rivieira :o :) I guess non native French speakers struggle with the accent...

Oh yeah. :haha: But you get used to it after a while.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 09:59 AM
I liked Wimbledon. But I was "forced". Taking part in the lottery for the first time and getting men's final tickets was special. But it is just so much better organised than Roland Garros where you have to queue to get it, to get a sandwich, to visit the rest-rooms....

I have been living in Brussels for three years and public transport is average, to put it mildly.

I got lucky when I went to Wimbledon. I got a ticket that a friend couldn't use, so that was very lucky for me. RG needs to expand and improve facilities, but they are in a good position to do that, whereas Wimbledon is limited.

I can't say I know that much about Brussels, except one of my good friends live there. She is Flemish and doesn't like speaking French and there are Eurocrats and African immigrants everywhere, well the second part isn't as bad as the first part.

So do you like living in Vienna?

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 10:00 AM
The French have a better rail system though.

Just don't ask them when they're on strike, ask them when they'll be working... :angel: :p

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 10:02 AM
You don't like the Occitan and Catalan influences then. I remember when I found out the Gypsy Kings are actually French, then I thought aha, it made more sense when I knew they were from that region.

I quite like the accent of South of France, the "better" accent imo is in Toulouse :cool: :cool:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:04 AM
You know you are talking about Gasquet's home region? ;)

I liked both, Languedoc-Roussillon and the Provence whose hinterland is also nice and if you go there out of the main season it is fine as well. I agree with you on the riviera though, the place which I liked less (taken Languedoc-Rooussillon and the Provence together ) was Cannes, not worth a visit, Hermes and Cartier shops, I can also find them in Vienna. ;)

Oh yeah. Don't tell me about it. :haha:

Like I said about Gasquet, I don't have a problem with the guy at all. Most of the people I met there were very helpful and friendly. The language bit was quite funny, because my French is woeful at its peak. I was lucky didn't have so much of a problem, once I said my nationality in French, then it was alright.

Provence is a bit much, there are lots of good regions in France that aren't overrun, just takes a bit of planning to see them. Languedoc-Roussillon is one of those and I spent quite a bit of time in the French Jura, that was a good holiday.

JM, what about the accent from the Jura?

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 10:04 AM
So do you like living in Vienna?

Yes, I do. Good public transport, very safe, easy to get out of town, great cultural variety, not too big, yep, I like it.

I think the image is a bit "dusty" with all this imperial stuff, but there is more than that, though it might not that easy to find if one is there for two days only.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:08 AM
I quite like the accent of South of France, the "better" accent imo is in Toulouse :cool: :cool:

I have never been to Toulouse, that is meant to be a pretty happening place. I know it has the aerospace industry, a few universities. They used to have the indoor event and had some good winners of this event as well.

It's rugby country down there, but there seems to be quite a lot going on there.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:12 AM
Yes, I do. Good public transport, very safe, easy to get out of town, great cultural variety, not too big, yep, I like it.

I think the image is a bit "dusty" with all this imperial stuff, but there is more than that, though it might not that easy to find if one is there for two days only.

In a way I regret not spending that much time actually seeing stuff in Vienna. I mean I know the Stadthalle, Prater Park and a few underground bars very well, but not much else.

So do you live near Döbling then? Yes, it has the old history and traditions, but just scratch a little but under the surface, there is stuff going on.

So are you a fan of kaiserdeutsch then?

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 10:15 AM
JM, what about the accent from the Jura?

You mean the French Jura? Well, they speak slower than the average French (it's close to Switzerland, that's why :p) but have an accent that is rather close than the Parisian's.

I have never been to Toulouse, that is meant to be a pretty happening place. I know it has the aerospace industry, a few universities. They used to have the indoor event and had some good winners of this event as well.

It's rugby country down there, but there seems to be quite a lot going on there.

I've been to a lot of places in France, and it's definitely one of my favorite. People take it cooler and are not as stressed as the Parisians. My favorite regions are the "Perigord", the "Auvergne" and the "Bretagne"...

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 10:16 AM
So do you live near Döbling then?

Nope, much closer to the centre, and Döbling does have a bit of an "elitist" image. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against history and traditions, I just think our lives should not only be based on them.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 10:20 AM
My favorite regions are the "Perigord", the "Auvergne" and the "Bretagne"...

I go to Périgord this summr, part of the Aquitaine trip, which will also include the Pays Basque, which I am most curious about, I wionder if it is really different culturally.

My experience so far: Every part of France is better than Paris.:o

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 10:21 AM
She is Flemish and doesn't like speaking French and there are Eurocrats and African immigrants everywhere, well the second part isn't as bad as the first part.
Brussels is not a good city to live in if you don't like speaking French.
It's supposed to be a bilingual city and a Fleming should be able to speak Dutch but...well, that's only in theory. Most of the time, you end up speaking French anyway. :o
Sometimes, I switch to English just to force those lazy French speakers in Brussels to use another language.

Not that long ago, I was in a restaurant with a friend. I started out by asking for a drink in Dutch. The waitress said that she didn't understand Dutch which is totally unbelievable because a cola is pretty much the same thing in both languages.
(the thing is that if you work in Brussels, you are supposed to be able to use both languages. If you can't : go work elsewhere).
Refusing to speak French, I slowly repeated our order. Pissed off, she wrote it down and brought us our drinks. We ordered some more.
When we asked the bill, it was obvious that she had made a mistake because she forgot to put a couple of items on it but I was not keen on correcting her mistake due to her shitty attitude to us.
Just when we were going outside, she had noticed her mistake as well and she started a long, rude rant in French to us on how we should pay up.
Having understood it all, I simply replied that I didn't understand French.
Gosh, if looks could kill, I would have dropped dead then and there. :angel:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:22 AM
You mean the French Jura? Well, they speak slower than the average French (it's close to Switzerland, that's why :p) but have an accent that is rather close than the Parisian's.

I meant the French one, like Besancon, but Swiss Jura as well is cool. Maybe that's why I liked close to Switzerland. Well we all know Paris loves centralisation and that was one of the things they tried to do was standardise the language across the country.

I've been to a lot of places in France, and it's definitely one of my favorite. People take it cooler and are not as stressed as the Parisians. My favorite regions are the "Perigord", the "Auvergne" and the "Bretagne"..

The southwest is underrated for sure, but I never got a chance to go to Toulouse, though it helps having a better climate, they tend to be a bit more relaxed and chilled out. I'd love to go to the Pyrennes one day. When I watch "Le Tour", those mountain stages are the ones I enjoy the most, it must be claycourt fan in me.

I liked the eastern part of France as well. Does Arsene Wenger sound like a German when he speaks French? One guy I met when I was travelling and are still friends, he was from a family that spoke Alsatian at home, he didn't like using French, unlike English.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:27 AM
Nope, much closer to the centre, and Döbling does have a bit of an "elitist" image. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against history and traditions, I just think our lives should not only be based on them.

I suppose it depends on how the history and traditions are used. I mean you have a guy like Haider the yuppie leader, who knew how to propagate them to his own use and made a career out of it, before turning into a joke.

Then again you may have noticed that I am not a big city guy. One thing I did love when I was in Carinthia, was the rivalry between them and Styrians for some reason. It went both ways, it was about everything, well except football since they are shit at football in Carinthia and Austria haven't had a very good player since Andi Herzog.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:30 AM
I go to Périgord this summr, part of the Aquitaine trip, which will also include the Pays Basque, which I am most curious about, I wionder if it is really different culturally.

My experience so far: Every part of France is better than Paris.:o

The Basque region, it depends on where you go. From what I can gather, I think there is a greater use of the Basque language on the Spanish side of the border, but they do have a cool flag.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/GWH2/800px-Flag_of_the_Basque_Countrysvg.png

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 10:31 AM
I suppose it depends on how the history and traditions are used.

I totally agree.

One thing I did love when I was in Carinthia, was the rivalry between them and Styrians for some reason. It went both ways, it was about everything, well except football since they are shit at football in Carinthia and Austria haven't had a very good player since Andi Herzog.

I am uselss on football. ;)

But this "rivalry" is not serious, the make jokes about each other, but it does not amount to substantive issues.

The Basque region, ...., but they do have a cool flag.


I am curious about the language, how it sounds, because written, it looks funny with all those "x" ses.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 10:40 AM
There are Austrians working on another floor in our office building (very cute dog, they have: a dark chocolate brown labrador). Those Austrians (but I don't know if it's typical or just coincidence) love to follow the rules down to the small print.

Whereas Belgians don't. For Belgians, a rule needs bending a little, esp. when it's a useless rule. Belgians don't follow rules for the sake of following a rule.

Needless to say that it clashed from time to time.:o There have been the most gobsmacking discussions about little details with Belgians saying: "WTF are they on about" and Austrians insisting on little details being respected.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:44 AM
But this "rivalry" is not serious, the make jokes about each other, but it does not amount to substantive issues.

I am curious about the language, how it sounds, because written, it looks funny with all those "x" ses.

Yes, it was mostly joking for sure, usually about their driving and the standard of women.

Here is a Basque band called Negu Gorriak. They are quite alternative and I am trying to find something where you can hear the language.

-Kn917hcuW8

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 10:49 AM
Brussels is not a good city to live in if you don't like speaking French.
It's supposed to be a bilingual city and a Fleming should be able to speak Dutch but...well, that's only in theory. Most of the time, you end up speaking French anyway. :o
Sometimes, I switch to English just to force those lazy French speakers in Brussels to use another language.

Well she is there for employment reasons of course. I mean she speaks French fluently, but I definitely know if I was in Brussels and could use both languages I'd use Flemish.

Yes, I did some research on the issue a few years ago. When Belgium had the colonies, it was French that was the dominant language, mainly due to the fact that it was the economic powerhouse at the time. Well we all know what happened after the 50s and how that changed.

In essence the Flemish have experience in speaking other languages, while the Walloons don't or aren't keen on doing it. Michel Preud'homme, I think he married a Flemish woman and eventually learnt the language, but that's a rare thing.

Not that long ago, I was in a restaurant with a friend. I started out by asking for a drink in Dutch. The waitress said that she didn't understand Dutch which is totally unbelievable because a cola is pretty much the same thing in both languages.
(the thing is that if you work in Brussels, you are supposed to be able to use both languages. If you can't : go work elsewhere).
Refusing to speak French, I slowly repeated our order. Pissed off, she wrote it down and brought us our drinks. We ordered some more.
When we asked the bill, it was obvious that she had made a mistake because she forgot to put a couple of items on it but I was not keen on correcting her mistake due to her shitty attitude to us.
Just when we were going outside, she had noticed her mistake as well and she started a long, rude rant in French to us on how we should pay up.
Having understood it all, I simply replied that I didn't understand French.
Gosh, if looks could kill, I would have dropped dead then and there.

The joys of bilingualism, but I know that for any government job at least, you are supposed to be able to speak both Dutch and French. How much can the word cola really differ?

Well we all know you that you didn't mind being stubborn, but in this case I can see why you would have been like this. Hahahaha, love the bit at the end where you say that you don't understand French.

One of my friends from the Caribbean originally has lived in Finland since he was 3. He plays up the fact, that he can't speak or understand Finnish and uses it to his advantage. There were these women talking about him on the bus and they were very interested, they didn't know, he knew what was going on, hahaha.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 10:51 AM
There are Austrians working on another floor in our office building (very cute dog, they have: a dark chocolate brown labrador). Those Austrians (but I don't know if it's typical or just coincidence) love to follow the rules down to the small print.

Whereas Belgians don't. For Belgians, a rule needs bending a little, esp. when it's a useless rule. Belgians don't follow rules for the sake of following a rule.


Well, people are always individuals, but I would not say that Austria is a very "law-abiding" society, to close to the Balkans . ;)

at least the dog is nice. ;)

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 11:05 AM
Michel Preud'homme, I think he married a Flemish woman and eventually learnt the language, but that's a rare thing.
Michel Preudhomme lived in my home city for a while and yes, he did learn the language. He's still seen as a hero over here for helping to save one of our local football teams to survive. Last time he came here as a trainer, his team defeated our local team but Preudhomme still received a standing ovation from the locals.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 11:09 AM
Michel Preudhomme lived in my home city for a while and yes, he did learn the language. He's still seen as a hero over here for helping to save one of our local football teams to survive. Last time he came here as a trainer, his team defeated our local team but Preudhomme still received a standing ovation from the locals.

He was a fine goalkeeper as well, not easy following Pfaff, who was a legendary figure and not just for his German language skills either.

It's good to hear that the locals still respect and cheered him.

l_mac
04-18-2008, 11:09 AM
Far from it, I am not just not going to join the circle jerk that Nadal is the greatest clay courter of all time already, when there are lots of things can happen between now and when he retires. So I prefer to wait till his career is done.

Unlike the multitude of Rafa fans who are ready to say he is the clay GOAT. Except despite your assertations that there are many Rafa fans who say this, I honestly don't remember anyone saying that, certainly not with any degree of seriousness. I'm sure now you will bump some threads for me, which I appreciate :hug:

Where are his claycourt challengers? When he has been pushed consistently by a great rival? That's right he doesn't. He does not have the competition on clay and that is not his fault, but if you deny that honestly, then you are kidding yourself.
But he has been much better than everyone else. For it to be a genuine rivalry he would need to lose a few times to them, and I still don't see why that would add to his clay legacy? :shrug:

Hahahaha, how would he be ahead of Lendl semi objectively?
No idea. 4 straight RGs, (assuming he wins a MS or two) at least 7 clay MS titles, 28-0 career at the French ... you are right, it would be impossible to make an objective arguement!!


You don't even have a clue about where I would rate him. How about asking me directly?
Why wouldn't I have a clue? You don't keep it a secret.

The thing is you aren't even remotely interested in what my actual view is. You just want to take cheap digs without offering anything in return.
I'm interested in so far as I think your opinion on this matter is ridiculous and exceptionally biased. I know you won't be able to make a proper judgement until his career is over, which of course is sensible, I only have issue with your assertions that the fact he wins so much hurts him "legacy" wise.


Poor Linda is put out, that I don't rate Nadal as the greatest already on clay. I almost feel for you, in fact I wish you could put me on ignore, it would make me so happy, but such is life it won't happen.
:sad: Of couse you don't wish that. And no-one is saying you should have Nadal as top of your clay list, and you know that. :p
:zzz:


Absolute and utter nonsense. Nobody in here asked to acknowledge that he's the undisputed clay GOAT.

:lol: :yeah:

Morning! Hope you all have a good day :hug:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 11:13 AM
My experience so far: Every part of France is better than Paris.:o

Paris would be nice without the Parisians :shrug: :p

Brussels is not a good city to live in if you don't like speaking French.
It's supposed to be a bilingual city and a Fleming should be able to speak Dutch but...well, that's only in theory. Most of the time, you end up speaking French anyway. :o
Sometimes, I switch to English just to force those lazy French speakers in Brussels to use another language.

:zzz: Grumpy Flemish :p

Does Arsene Wenger sound like a German when he speaks French? One guy I met when I was travelling and are still friends, he was from a family that spoke Alsatian at home, he didn't like using French, unlike English.

Wenger has an accent that sounds like the Parisian's (= no real accent) :shrug: I don't mind the Alsatian accent, and Alsatian is quite close to Swiss German

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 11:17 AM
:zzz: Grumpy Flemish :p
:ras: Annoying, lazy-ass French speakers.:p

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 11:20 AM
:ras: Annoying, lazy-ass French speakers.:p

Belgium wouldn't be as sweet without your beloved "Wallons" :D :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Paris would be nice without the Parisians :shrug: :p

Wenger has an accent that sounds like the Parisian's (= no real accent) :shrug: I don't mind the Alsatian accent, and Alsatian is quite close to Swiss German

Of course, Paris wouldn't be the same without the Parisians :).

Yes, my friend lives in Switzerland now, so he enjoys it and works it out well for him.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 11:27 AM
Belgium wouldn't be as sweet without your beloved "Wallons" :D :p
I mainly have a problem with lazy-ass French speakers working in Brussels. I don't mind Wallonia..........much.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 11:33 AM
I mainly have a problem with lazy-ass French speakers working in Brussels. I don't mind Wallonia..........much.

Brussels is Wallonia :shrug: :angel: :bolt: :p

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 11:38 AM
Brussels is Wallonia :shrug: :angel: :bolt: :p :lol: Ooooh....that's low, even coming from you. :mad:

Brussels is a Flemish city by origin (the word Bruxelles has Flemish roots, referring to the swamp-like surface it's build on), surrounded by Flemish territory, invaded by lazy-ass French speakers. :nerner:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 11:40 AM
When I was in Brussels I never heard Flemish, that's why I thought it was part of Wallonia :angel: :p :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 11:44 AM
It's like the South Tyrol thing in Italy. Seppi is alright because he speaks Italian, but I know quite a few of the people there, who don't speak Italian or don't speak it well. Then again they don't need to in most cases, they can use German, so it works for them.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 11:50 AM
I don't understand these language issues: If I had grown up in a bilangual region, I'd have been happy to learn both, in particular when one of them is of the Germanic type and the other one of the Roman type, what a great cultural base to start off.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 11:51 AM
It's like the South Tyrol thing in Italy. Seppi is alright because he speaks Italian, but I know quite a few of the people there, who don't speak Italian or don't speak it well. Then again they don't need to in most cases, they can use German, so it works for them.

German is actually more usefull than Italian in most places, so I can see why some of them don't bother learning Italian properly :shrug:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 11:56 AM
German is actually more usefull than Italian in most places, so I can see why some of them don't bother learning Italian properly :shrug:

I mean when I was in South Tyrol I used the German names for the places and there isn't that much mixing between the groups from what I asked from the people I met and from my own observations.

One of my friends went south to study, basically so he could improve his Italian. It will help him once he learns Spanish, like he plans on doing.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 12:17 PM
When I was in Brussels I never heard Flemish, that's why I thought it was part of Wallonia :angel: :p :p

Ditto. ;)

I don't understand these language issues: If I had grown up in a bilangual region, I'd have been happy to learn both, in particular when one of them is of the Germanic type and the other one of the Roman type, what a great cultural base to start off.
:worship:

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 12:27 PM
When I was in Brussels I never heard Flemish, that's why I thought it was part of Wallonia :angel: :p :p

I did, I lived in a flemish community and I even spoke it. I had picked up Dutch earlier when I was in the NL as a student.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 12:32 PM
Lucie :eek: you in here :hatoff: :hug: you venture out of the Marat forum, something wrong? :D

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 12:32 PM
I did, I lived in a flemish community and I even spoke it. I had picked up Dutch earlier when I was in the NL as a student.

That wouldn't have been that difficult for you to learn Dutch. How long did it take for you to be able to converse in the language? I don't mean writing research papers on quantum physics.

TMJordan
04-18-2008, 12:33 PM
Linda, your such a clay court mug.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 12:34 PM
Ditto. ;)
You're French, you probably have no clue what Flemish really sounds like. :ras: :p

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 12:35 PM
You're French, you probably have no clue what Flemish really sounds like. :ras: :p

:lol: :angel: If people speak French, then it has to be part of France, no? :shrug: :D :p

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 12:38 PM
That wouldn't have been that difficult for you to learn Dutch. How long did it take for you to be able to converse in the language? I don't mean writing research papers on quantum physics.

The problem with picking up Dutch in the NL is that everyone partiuclarly in an university environment speaks so good English. It is much more effort for them to take the patience and speak in slow Dutch or explain soemthing in Dutch...it would be more efficient in English, and the Dutch like efficiency ;)

But as a native German speaker you pick it up in 2-3 months easily to have basic conversations. At a higher level it is more tricky, but that is the same in any language, even in English.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 12:39 PM
:lol: :angel: If people speak French, then it has to be part of France, no? :shrug: :D :p
That's what the French kept trying to tell us for centuries but we always managed to kick them out again eventually.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 12:42 PM
That's what the French kept trying to tell us for centuries but we always managed to kick them out again eventually.

They also tried it here :o and were not more successful :o :p

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 12:44 PM
the Dutch like efficiency ;).
Quite a few Dutchies seriously mess up their own language by using too many foreign words they can't even pronounce properly. Like the word "jus d'orange", most of the Dutch people I know, pronounce that as something close to "sudeauranch".


:angel: Castafiore, making friends with people from neighboring countries. :angel: (Karin doesn't visit this corner of MTF anymore, right? :unsure: )

My Belgian/German niece married a German guy and it's amazing how quickly he picks up Dutch. Knowing German really helps a lot.

They also tried it here and were not more successful
:yeah:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 12:48 PM
The problem with picking up Dutch in the NL is that everyone partiuclarly in an university environment speaks so good English. It is much more effort for them to take the patience and speak in slow Dutch or explain soemthing in Dutch...it would be more efficient in English, and the Dutch like efficiency ;)

But as a native German speaker you pick it up in 2-3 months easily to have basic conversations. At a higher level it is more tricky, but that is the same in any language, even in English.

Yes, I think you are considered an unsanitary peasant in the Netherlands if you are under 40 and can't speak English. It can be a problem since their English is of a high standard, this is the same in Norden. Some of my friends had problems, because they wanted to learn the local language, but the locals would keep speaking English.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 12:50 PM
Lucie :eek: you in here :hatoff: :hug: you venture out of the Marat forum, something wrong? :D
Well, everybody knows GM is not a safe place. :o It takes time and a lot of care to venture there. :shrug: Marat's forum, on the contrary, is such a haven. :inlove:
As for Nadal's forum, I was merely lurking when I noticed you. :eek: :eek:
Seems you're even sorta nice here... :scratch: :haha:

You're French, you probably have no clue what Flemish really sounds like. :ras: :p
http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Content/0106.gif

:lol: :angel: If people speak French, then it has to be part of France, no? :shrug: :D :p

:spit:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 12:51 PM
Like the word "jus d'orange", most of the Dutch people I know, pronounce that as something close to "sudeauranch".


The Dutch use the word "jus d'orange" instead of the Dutch word? And I bothered ordering "orange juices" in Amsterdam coffee shops... :( :o

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 12:52 PM
Yes, I think you are considered an unsanitary peasant in the Netherlands if you are under 40 and can't speak English. It can be a problem since their English is of a high standard, this is the same in Norden. Some of my friends had problems, because they wanted to learn the local language, but the locals would keep speaking English.

yep, I agree, very similar situation in the north of Europe, except Finland, and the danes are sometimes deliberately nasty, but sooner or later someone will come along to help you out.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 12:52 PM
They also tried it here :o and were not more successful :o :p

Then they had a go in Luxembourg as well, then again there are so many people that tried to take the Grand Duchy.

Lots of Portuguese living in Luxembourg. Lëtzebuergesch there is a sexy language, they also know French and German as well, then it's not hard to find English speakers there as well.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 12:54 PM
Seems you're even sorta nice here... :scratch: :haha:


:fiery: I am a nice guy wherever I am :shrug: :angel: :p

You're still not bored by Marat weaknesses? Will you keep wet dreaming of him once he retires? :o :p

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 12:55 PM
The Dutch use the word "jus d'orange" instead of the Dutch word? And I bothered ordering "orange juices" in Amsterdam coffee shops... :( :o
Some of them do use the Dutch word for it (sinaasappelsap) but quite of few others do say "sudeauranch". They love using French words, butchering the language in the process. :o

luxsword
04-18-2008, 12:58 PM
:fiery: I am a nice guy wherever I am :shrug: :angel: :p

You're still not bored by Marat weaknesses? Will you keep wet dreaming of him once he retires? :o :p

He gave us TWO wins in one week, man. http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/F%EAtes/0036.gif Besides, he's been in a slump for so long that people tend to worry much more about this Swiss who's still to win his first title of the year. :ras: :angel:
As for wet dreaming, I guess you're still as bad at guessing what mine are made of. :devil:

cmurray
04-18-2008, 12:59 PM
:fiery: I am a nice guy wherever I am :shrug: :angel: :p

You're still not bored by Marat weaknesses? Will you keep wet dreaming of him once he retires? :o :p

Jan Michael, be nice. :p

You asked me yesterday how I was listening to French on cd. It isn't music it's like this voice that says

"Ok. Now repeat after me... 'Comment vous-applez vous?' What is your name?" :haha:

It's quite pathetic, really. :tape:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 12:59 PM
yep, I agree, very similar situation in the north of Europe, except Finland, and the danes are sometimes deliberately nasty, but sooner or later someone will come along to help you out.

Danes, well when they have significant amount of Germans who go into their shops and just bark out what they want in German, this happens more so in border areas they tend not to take it very well.

Some automatically think that someone speaking German is from Germany, not taking into account, they could be from another nation. I have seen this happen quite a bit, it's the same when Danes, Swedes and Norwegians travel and speak their language.

Finland, well they have quite a high level of English usage there, it's just that there are some areas where it's not as common.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:00 PM
Then they had a go in Luxembourg as well, then again there are so many people that tried to take the Grand Duchy.


Actually it's kind of funny how most places where French is spoken have a hard time with the French. I remember in Montreal, we were once struggling finding our way in the city and some Montrealian asked us where we were from and she seemed relieved when we said we weren't French and was quite nice and chatty to us :)

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 01:02 PM
I have already answered the question and done so twice. Just because you don't like the answer I gave doesn't mean a thing.

If I bold it for you, will it make easier for you to read?
You never answered it :shrug:

You said I should wait till the end of his career. And you claimed he has no major rival. These were your 2 major points. The question was "what does Nadal have to achieve to be classified as the clay GOAT". I never got a straight answer for that.
George is not a Rafa hater. I find it amusing though that he isn't a fan, considering that he uses to like 99% of the moonballers.
George is a 1970-1990 tennis tard.
Absolute and utter nonsense. Nobody in here asked to acknowledge that he's the undisputed clay GOAT.
I did :D
MC = poshest tennis event... :o
Queens is surely posher :o

MariaV
04-18-2008, 01:03 PM
:fiery: I am a nice guy wherever I am :shrug: :angel: :p


:spit: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Lucie, don't be fooled by JM here. :haha: :haha: No doubt he has been mean to you in the French forum?

You're still not bored by Marat weaknesses? Will you keep wet dreaming of him once he retires? :o :p

FYI we true Safin fas are no fairweather people, all the screaming fangirls don't stay interested for long. :shrug: :p


Ooh, a language discussion, too bad I don't have time to participate. :o

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:09 PM
Jan Michael, be nice. :p

You asked me yesterday how I was listening to French on cd. It isn't music it's like this voice that says

"Ok. Now repeat after me... 'Comment vous-applez vous?' What is your name?" :haha:

It's quite pathetic, really. :tape:


Tips for Cheryl to communicate in Monte Carlo

When meeting Federer:
Mais quel nez vous avez, monsieur! Est-ce que vous connaissez Cyrano de Bergerac?

About Nadal:
Il est sûrement le chèvre sur terre battue.


:angel:


I did
:help:

Adam, I have some crushing news for you. I hope that you're sitting down for this one because it's going to be a blow for you: Justine Henin has a new boyfriend. The newspaper I read it in suggested that it could explain her current "slump". :haha:

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:09 PM
:spit: :haha: :haha: :haha:
Lucie, don't be fooled by JM here. :haha: :haha: No doubt he has been mean to you in the French forum?



FYI we true Safin fas are no fairweather people, all the screaming fangirls don't stay interested for long. :shrug:

Actually, he used to call all Safinettes "pisseuses" and enjoyed immensely annoying us with the usual groupie clichés. :lol: He was remarquably good at it, to be honest. Quite a ass*** he could be. :o And he was a complete fet tard rafahater, it was rather funny. :lol: With time I got to miss him. :awww:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:09 PM
Some of them do use the Dutch word for it (sinaasappelsap) but quite of few others do say "sudeauranch". They love using French words, butchering the language in the process. :o

It's like the Swiss Germans, they love to use French words (they told me once that it makes them look sophisticated :spit:) but never pronounce them correctly :tape: :o


As for wet dreaming, I guess you're still as bad at guessing what mine are made of. :devil:

Tssss, you know I know you better than your own mom :D :p


You asked me yesterday how I was listening to French on cd. It isn't music it's like this voice that says

"Ok. Now repeat after me... 'Comment vous-applez vous?' What is your name?" :haha:

It's quite pathetic, really. :tape:

:lol: I see... The pronounciation in French is so weird that I guess it helps to learn it by listening to/speaking it rather than reading it... :shrug:


Finland, well they have quite a high level of English usage there, it's just that there are some areas where it's not as common.

I still struggle to understand Patrik (and most Finnish poker players for the matter) sometimes...

MariaV
04-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Finland, well they have quite a high level of English usage there, it's just that there are some areas where it's not as common.

The Finnish accent is so unique when they speak English, you know immediately it's a Finn speaking. The top executives and such speak excellent English, others not so. In Tallinn they expect everyone to speak Finnish but surprise surprise with our 'new-found' freedom the young people here don't watch Finnish TV any more and don't bother learning Finnish which is a shame really.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Tssss, you know I know you better than your own mom :D :p

Well, I certainly hope she knows nothing of my wet dreams. :smash:

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:14 PM
Tips for Cheryl to communicate in Monte Carlo

When meeting Federer:
Mais quel nez vous avez, monsieur! Est-ce que vous connaissez Cyrano de Bergerac?

About Nadal:
Il est sûrement le chèvre sur terre battue.


:angel:



:help:

Adam, I have some crushing news for you. I hope that you're sitting down because it's going to be a blow for you: Justine Henin has a new boyfriend.

Justine has a boyfriend? :eek: Wow. You got a picture? :D

That wasn't very nice about Federer's nose, Hilde :rolls: I can sort of read French, I just don't know how to put together a sentence when I'm speaking it. I'm hopeless, really.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:14 PM
You got a picture? :D
Not yet.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:18 PM
You never answered it :shrug:

You said I should wait till the end of his career. And you claimed he has no major rival. These were your 2 major points. The question was "what does Nadal have to achieve to be classified as the clay GOAT". I never got a straight answer for that.

Yes, I said that. The reason I said that is becomes a lot easier to see once he has retired. Do I know for sure what's going to happen to him or how his career ends up once he finishes?

No, he doesn't have a major rival and second of all I am not just going to throw out set of random numbers for the sake of it. When I don't know what is going to happen to him.

Do you understand that? Like I said at the time, I am not interested in talking about, because he hopefully he isn't going to retire for a long time.

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 01:18 PM
Adam, I have some crushing news for you. I hope that you're sitting down for this one because it's going to be a blow for you: Justine Henin has a new boyfriend. The newspaper I read it in suggested that it could explain her current "slump". :haha:
:bigcry: absolutely devastated :sad:

Is he as cool as the wonderful Pierre-Yves :p

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:20 PM
The Finnish accent is so unique when they speak English, you know immediately it's a Finn speaking. The top executives and such speak excellent English, others not so. In Tallinn they expect everyone to speak Finnish but surprise surprise with our 'new-found' freedom the young people here don't watch Finnish TV any more and don't bother learning Finnish which is a shame really.
I always thought watching movies and tv serials in English would help us greatly with languages, we're so not good at it :o but to imagine a country with people kinda forgetting their language to speak English i find utterly mindboggling. :awww:

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:20 PM
:lol: I see... The pronounciation in French is so weird that I guess it helps to learn it by listening to/speaking it rather than reading it... :shrug:


The funny bit is that the pronunciation IS so strange that sometimes I can't tell what they're saying. They were conjugating habiter and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out what word they were actually saying. :rolls: I kept thinking it was like... obitez or something. Until they said "to live" and I was like "OH! Like 'inhabit'." :smash:

I have trouble with all of the unpronounced letters. That's the most difficult thing for me.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:21 PM
That wasn't very nice about Federer's nose, Hilde :rolls: I can sort of read French, I just don't know how to put together a sentence when I'm speaking it. I'm hopeless, really.

Just go out with a French person, it'll help. ;) :angel:

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:23 PM
:bigcry: absolutely devastated :sad:

Is he as cool as the wonderful Pierre-Yves :p

Pierre-Yves :worship:

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:24 PM
Is he as cool as the wonderful Pierre-Yves :p
Pierre-Yves. :inlove: :bolt:
If she's performing poorly due to having a new boyfriend, he's got to be hot stuff. :shrug:

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:24 PM
Just go out with a French person, it'll help. ;) :angel:

I would, but my husband would probably get a little mad. ;)

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:25 PM
:spit: :haha:
Lucie, don't be fooled by JM here. :haha: No doubt he has been mean to you in the French forum?



FYI we true Safin fas are no fairweather people, all the screaming fangirls don't stay interested for long. :shrug: :p


Ooh, a language discussion, too bad I don't have time to participate. :o

Maria love :hug: :hug: you know I have a soft spot for safinettes... and that for years :inlove: :aplot: :angel:

Tips for Cheryl to communicate in Monte Carlo

When meeting Federer:
Mais quel nez vous avez, monsieur! Est-ce que vous connaissez Cyrano de Bergerac?

About Nadal:
Il est sûrement le chèvre sur terre battue.




:ras:

About Nadal:
"C'est qui ce gorille au cul plus gros que le Clémenceau là? " :p

Actually, he used to call all Safinettes "pisseuses" and enjoyed immensely annoying us with the usual groupie clichés. :lol: He was remarquably good at it, to be honest. Quite a ass*** he could be. :o And he was a complete fet tard rafahater, it was rather funny. :lol: With time I got to miss him. :awww:

I miss some of you too :hug: :hug: mostly my beloved rafa fangirls and safinettes :cool:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:25 PM
It's like the Swiss Germans, they love to use French words (they told me once that it makes them look sophisticated :spit:) but never pronounce them correctly :tape: :o

:lol: I see... The pronounciation in French is so weird that I guess it helps to learn it by listening to/speaking it rather than reading it... :shrug:

I still struggle to understand Patrik (and most Finnish poker players for the matter) sometimes...

I noticed when I was in Bern, they said merci for thanks and that took me a few days to get used to. At least they don't talk too quickly in Bern.

Finns speaking Swedish is even better, you know it's them, because they speak Swedish without tone, which is funny because it's a tonal language.

The Finnish accent is so unique when they speak English, you know immediately it's a Finn speaking. The top executives and such speak excellent English, others not so. In Tallinn they expect everyone to speak Finnish but surprise surprise with our 'new-found' freedom the young people here don't watch Finnish TV any more and don't bother learning Finnish which is a shame really.

It's like what happened in Finland with the usage of Swedish which has dropped as more younger Finns are wanting to learn English. Though if they are smart, they can learn it and get some government jobs.

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:27 PM
About Nadal:
"C'est qui ce gorille au cul plus gros que le Clémenceau là? " :p
:haha: hook, line and sinker. Works every time.

:ras: Tu n'as pas de classe, toi. :p

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:29 PM
Pardon me for not knowing, but do most European children learn English at school? I REALLY wish we did that here.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:30 PM
I would, but my husband would probably get a little mad. ;)

:spit: It's hopeless indeed, then. :p
Maria love :hug: :hug: you know I have a soft spot for safinettes... and that for years :inlove: :aplot: :angel:

I miss some of you too :hug: :hug: mostly my beloved rafa fangirls and safinettes :cool:

Yeah, Poulette noticed how you asked about Mélissa some time ago. :devil: I think you broke her heart. :awww: (Any news of Mél', btw ? )

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:32 PM
Pardon me for not knowing, but do most European children learn English at school? I REALLY wish we did that here.
I assume so, yes.

Here in Flanders, besides our own language, we have to take on French (obviously) and English but more and more Flemings seem to prefer English as a second language.

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 01:33 PM
Yes, I said that. The reason I said that is becomes a lot easier to see once he has retired. Do I know for sure what's going to happen to him or how his career ends up once he finishes?

No, he doesn't have a major rival and second of all I am not just going to throw out set of random numbers for the sake of it. When I don't know what is going to happen to him.

Do you understand that? Like I said at the time, I am not interested in talking about, because he hopefully he isn't going to retire for a long time.
Fine so basically you're not going to give me any aims or figures, you could've said that 100 posts ago and saved us a lot of time :o

Personally I'd say even if he had to retire tomorrow he'd go down in the top 3 clay courters of all time :)
Pierre-Yves. :inlove: :bolt:
If she's performing poorly due to having a new boyfriend, he's got to be hot stuff. :shrug:
:lol:

If he's hot, he's surely only with her for the money. Surely no-one could be attracted to her looks or personality :scared:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:33 PM
In Tallinn they expect everyone to speak Finnish but surprise surprise with our 'new-found' freedom the young people here don't watch Finnish TV any more and don't bother learning Finnish which is a shame really.

Why would the Estonians bother learning Finnish? It's a hell of a language to learn and it's quite useless unless you're planning to date Patrik... :shrug: :p

Well, I certainly hope she knows nothing of my wet dreams. :smash:

I told her about them :angel: :p

but to imagine a country with people kinda forgetting their language to speak English i find utterly mindboggling. :awww:

Well, that's sad, but that's even sadder not to be able to speak English nowadays...

The funny bit is that the pronunciation IS so strange that sometimes I can't tell what they're saying. They were conjugating habiter and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out what word they were actually saying. :rolls: I kept thinking it was like... obitez or something. Until they said "to live" and I was like "OH! Like 'inhabit'." :smash:

I have trouble with all of the unpronounced letters. That's the most difficult thing for me.

:hug: If French wasn't my native language I would NEVER bother learning it, way too complicated :o

I would, but my husband would probably get a little mad. ;)

:shrug: No need to tell him :angel: :bolt:

rocketassist
04-18-2008, 01:35 PM
Is Flemish like Dutch?

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:36 PM
I told her about them :angel: :p
:mad:

Well, that's sad, but that's even sadder not to be able to speak English nowadays...
I disagree. :o Anyway, everybody gets to speak it a minimum. :shrug:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:36 PM
Fine so basically you're not going to give me any aims or figures, you could've said that 100 posts ago and saved us a lot of time :o

Personally I'd say even if he had to retire tomorrow he'd go down in the top 3 clay courters of all time :)

Considering I said wait until he retires. If you can't figure out what that means, then my initial point was valid, that you were doing it as a wind up tactic and not interested in anything else.

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:37 PM
Is Flemish like Dutch?

The same pretty much.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:37 PM
Pardon me for not knowing, but do most European children learn English at school? I REALLY wish we did that here.

I think English in the second language in most places... We still learn German prior to English here though :sad:


Yeah, Poulette noticed how you asked about Mélissa some time ago. :devil: I think you broke her heart. :awww: (Any news of Mél', btw ? )

Poulette once came in GM :bounce: and Melissa already posted on here (but haven't seen her in quite a while :sad: Christelle is also in GM sometimes...

rocketassist
04-18-2008, 01:39 PM
Borg had Vilas, Nadal has had no one, I think that makes a difference in who was the best on clay debate.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:40 PM
I disagree. :o Anyway, everybody gets to speak it a minimum. :shrug:

So you don't think English is a mandatory language nowadays? I don't know how I would do without it...

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 01:40 PM
Considering I said wait until he retires. If you can't figure out what that means, then my initial point was valid, that you were doing it as a wind up tactic and not interested in anything else.
:lol: I'm not winding you up.

I don't understand why you can't accept this isn't a proper answer. If this is the way you feel then fine. I was more after a "he needs to win ......". Your answer is a very safe option :shrug:

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:40 PM
Poulette once came in GM :bounce: and Melissa already posted on here (but haven't seen her in quite a while :sad: Christelle is also in GM sometimes...

Yeah, I told Poulette about finding you in GM while on msn. ;) Like I said, she's given up on you, because you abandonned her. :o
I've never seen Mélissa on MTF yet. :awww: And Kriky's often in Marat's forum. :dance:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Borg had Vilas, Nadal has had no one, I think that makes a difference in who was the best on clay debate.

Nadal has Fed, and Fed >>> Vilas on clay... :o :D :p

Castafiore
04-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Nadal has the Temporary GOAT and the Real GOAT. :p

MariaV
04-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Finns speaking Swedish is even better, you know it's them, because they speak Swedish without tone, which is funny because it's a tonal language.



It's like what happened in Finland with the usage of Swedish which has dropped as more younger Finns are wanting to learn English. Though if they are smart, they can learn it and get some government jobs.

Yeah, only smart young people bother to learn other foreign languages than English here. I only speak excellent Finnish and Russian because I learned them as a kid I have always used them.

I always thought watching movies and tv serials in English would help us greatly with languages, we're so not good at it :o but to imagine a country with people kinda forgetting their language to speak English i find utterly mindboggling. :awww:

Lucie sweetie, I think you got it wrong, I was talking about the language of our lovely neighbours, Estonian kids go to Estonian schools and study Estonian here, that's what helped us to survive 50 years of Soviet occupation.
And most people living on the Northern coast of Estonia could watch Finnish TV during the Soviet regime and speak at least some Finnish. Now with the computers and internet it's more and more only English as the first foreign language. And young people don't bother to watch Finnish TV channels as there's such a huge variety of choices what to do, to watch smth on i-net or satellite TV channels.

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Borg had Vilas, Nadal has had no one, I think that makes a difference in who was the best on clay debate.
Jack had Arnold Palmer and Gary Player.....does that mean he's better than Tiger?!?

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:44 PM
So you don't think English is a mandatory language nowadays? I don't know how I would do without it...

Of course I do ! :o I'm teaching it to 8 years old in primary school. ;) I think it's simpler to have it taught as sorta compulsory first foreign language, and start a second foreign language earlier on, btw. But what I feel very sad is a people forgetting its own language because of English. It should be a useful bonus, not the decay of another language. :shrug: You can always learn a foreign language, more or less easily, of course, but your mother tongue, it's gotta be your everyday language. Ok ?

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:46 PM
Lucie sweetie, I think you got it wrong, I was talking about the language of our lovely neighbours, Estonian kids go to Estonian schools and study Estonian here, that's what helped us to survive 50 years of Soviet occupation.
And most people living on the Northern coast of Estonia could watch Finnish TV during the Soviet regime and speak at least some Finnish. Now with the computers and internet it's more and more only English as the first foreign language. And young people don't bother to watch Finnish TV channels as there's such a huge variety of choices what to do, to watch smth on i-net or satellite TV channels.

Ah ok. :) Glad I got it wrong then !! :bounce:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:49 PM
:lol: I'm not winding you up.

I don't understand why you can't accept this isn't a proper answer. If this is the way you feel then fine. I was more after a "he needs to win ......". Your answer is a very safe option :shrug:

No, my answer is the simple one. Why would I throw out numbers for the sake of it, when there are other factors that can't be measured using a statistical formula, that will impact on any judgment. Therefore leaving a figure useless.

Golf you are playing directly against the course to get the lowest score, not directly against your opponent. This case they can't be compared.

I am going to go on a picture spam very shortly.

cmurray
04-18-2008, 01:50 PM
:lol: I'm not winding you up.

I don't understand why you can't accept this isn't a proper answer. If this is the way you feel then fine. I was more after a "he needs to win ......". Your answer is a very safe option :shrug:

I don't mean to step into this argument (I mean I REALLY don't), but it seems to me that George doesn't want to quantify requirements for such a subjective term. GOAT on clay. My own opinion is that whether or not Nadal has had "competition" or not, he still gets a shot at the title, if for nothing else than his consistency. NOBODY has won as consistently on the dirt as Nadal. And for that alone, he gets my nod, and he would even if he wasn't my favorite player.

Just like Federer gets my nod for overall GOAT. Because for so long he played with such remarkable consistency that it is unlikely to ever be matched again. :shrug: But, those are just my opinions.

rocketassist
04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Jack had Arnold Palmer and Gary Player.....does that mean he's better than Tiger?!?

Golf is a different sport.

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Of course I do ! :o I'm teaching it to 8 years old in primary school. ;) I think it's simpler to have it taught as sorta compulsory first foreign language, and start a second foreign language earlier on, btw. But what I feel very sad is a people forgetting its own language because of English. It should be a useful bonus, not the decay of another language. :shrug: You can always learn a foreign language, more or less easily, of course, but your mother tongue, it's gotta be your everyday language. Ok ?

Ok :) :hug: ;)

MariaV
04-18-2008, 01:53 PM
Ah ok. :) Glad I got it wrong then !! :bounce:

Yep, JM asked why to bother learning Finnish here? It's the language of our neigbours, we have lots of Finnish investments here, all kind of contacts, Finnish tourists (it's them who expect service in Finnnish). Of course the grammar is different and stuff but for me it wasn't hard at all as it's a kindred language to Estonian.

Puschkin
04-18-2008, 01:54 PM
Some automatically think that someone speaking German is from Germany, not taking into account, they could be from another nation. I have seen this happen quite a bit, it's the same when Danes, Swedes and Norwegians travel and speak their language.

I have my own strategy to decide which is which. I know a little Swedish and can recognise it. Danish is easy recognisable is different, so what remains- must be Norwegian. However, I am deep shit, when there are Icelanders involved. ;)

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Yeah, only smart young people bother to learn other foreign languages than English here. I only speak excellent Finnish and Russian because I learned them as a kid I have always used them.

Then again there are some language freaks out there. Well you had to learn Russian at school, especially since it was the old USSR. I didn't think they'd appreciate speaking poor Russian.

Technology and globalisation can be good and bad in certain aspects, well the Estonians I admired how they broke away from the USSR, hardly any violence.

Finnish or English, well you can see why the kids would choose the latter.

luxsword
04-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Yep, JM asked why to bother learning Finnish here? It's the language of our neigbours, we have lots of Finnish investments here, all kind of contacts, Finnish tourists (it's them who expect service in Finnnish). Of course the grammar is different and stuff but for me it wasn't hard at all as it's a kindred language.

:secret: I think I assumed you were Finnish. :o http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Confus/embaras.gif http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Reflexion/idee-puis-non.gif

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:57 PM
Of course the grammar is different and stuff but for me it wasn't hard at all as it's a kindred language to Estonian.

Really? I always thought that Hungarian and Finnish were the only European languages that are totally unrelated to any other language... :scratch:

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 01:58 PM
:secret: I think I assumed you were Finnish. :o http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Confus/embaras.gif http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Reflexion/idee-puis-non.gif

:rolleyes: The French and their geographical skills :o :p :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 01:59 PM
I have my own strategy to decide which is which. I know a little Swedish and can recognise it. Danish is easy recognisable is different, so what remains- must be Norwegian. However, I am deep shit, when there are Icelanders involved. ;)

Danish is a horrible language, therefore it's very easy to recognise.

This is Icelandic and what a cool language it is. Here is an interview with Bubbi Morthens, who is Iceland's most popular Icelandic muso and Magnus Stefansson.

V1dWV2o_Gcw

bokehlicious
04-18-2008, 02:00 PM
I have my own strategy to decide which is which. I know a little Swedish and can recognise it. Danish is easy recognisable is different, so what remains- must be Norwegian. However, I am deep shit, when there are Icelanders involved. ;)

Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Dutch all sound the same to me... :o

luxsword
04-18-2008, 02:00 PM
:rolleyes: The French and their geographical skills :o :p :p

:o I just didn't recognise the flag. http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Langue/boude-langue-954.gif

MariaV
04-18-2008, 02:01 PM
Of course I do ! :o I'm teaching it to 8 years old in primary school. ;) I think it's simpler to have it taught as sorta compulsory first foreign language, and start a second foreign language earlier on, btw. But what I feel very sad is a people forgetting its own language because of English. It should be a useful bonus, not the decay of another language. :shrug: You can always learn a foreign language, more or less easily, of course, but your mother tongue, it's gotta be your everyday language. Ok ?

Oh, a teacher! :hatoff:
You know we had the same discussion here a bit, English has become the prevailing first foregin language and specialists say it would be better to study some other foregin language first and then English later as it's 'easier and kids get it from the cartoons and computers anyway'... And of course during the Soviet regime 8-year-olds started studying Russian in Estonian schools too, and then we had the option of German or French at our schools but now all kids and parents only want English. :( Well, at least most of them, only the smart ones opt for German or French and it seems we don't have even enough good German and French teachers here any more. :o Those eurocrat-wannabes trying to study & use French at an older age are sooo funny. :o :o

adee-gee
04-18-2008, 02:03 PM
No, my answer is the simple one. Why would I throw out numbers for the sake of it, when there are other factors that can't be measured using a statistical formula, that will impact on any judgment. Therefore leaving a figure useless.

Golf you are playing directly against the course to get the lowest score, not directly against your opponent. This case they can't be compared.

I am going to go on a picture spam very shortly.
Fine, forgive me for being cynical but I can envisage a situation at the end of his career that no matter what he does, you won't rank him highly among the all time greats.

Yes, but surely if you're up against better players, you need to raise your game higher....well take this for example. The Brasil team of 1970, probably the greatest team of all time. Now they're the greatest because they were simply the best, not because the competition they had to beat was the strongest of all time :shrug: