The french curse in Grand Slams [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The french curse in Grand Slams

yuri27
02-01-2010, 11:58 PM
How the hell such an addicted-tennis country which have won so many Davis Cups in the last 2 decades and who have produced so many talented players have not managed to even win one Grand Slam for almost 30 years????

People talk about Great Britain's curse but i'd say France's curse is far worse as Great Britain are nowhere near as fond of tennis as France(France have 1.100.000 registered tennis players) and they have nowhere near as many players in top 100 as France.

This said,i think Great Britain will soon end their curse as i can't see Andy Murray not winning a Grand Slam in the next few years.....and that will make France's curse look even more embarassing.

I don't see any of the current french players capable of winning a Grand Slam.
Tsonga's game is way too risky and his movement is sub-par comparing to the top players.
Monfils is just not talented enough to win a Grand Slam.
Simon has no weapons
and Gasquet......well,better to not say anything(even though i think he's got a small chance at Wimbledon as bar Nadal and Murray,the new young players don't seem to excel on grass so the door will be opened once Federer will decline)

List of the countries which have won a Grand Slam from the last 30 years:
Australia,USA,Russia,Serbia,Croatia,Swizerland,Swe den,Spain,Germany,Argentina,Holland,Czech Republic,Equator,Brazil,Austria and probably very soon,Scotland.
Guess which country is missing......:rolleyes:

FiBeR
02-02-2010, 01:01 AM
Guess which country is missing......:rolleyes:

i dont know... Chile?

CmonAussie
02-02-2010, 01:32 AM
...
Good point:
>>>
The fact that Leconte, Pioline, Grosjean, Gasquet, Monfils & Tsonga~~~ etc. have failed to win even 1 major between them points to the fact that despite all their talent, the French don`t compete very well on the biggest [most pressured] situations!!

BTW, i still think Tsonga is a good shot to win a Slam~~~ so i`d rest my hopes on him [Monfils & Gasquet are headcases]. Jo-Willie could actually pull it off, maybe even surprise everyone by winning @ Wimbledon this year^^!

abraxas21
02-02-2010, 01:48 AM
Yrs, I always thought that was a bit weird. However, you still have some really good players but I'll admit that I don't see any of those winning a GS in the near future. Tsonga winning Wimby this year would be a major shock for me. Come to think of it, any player aside of Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic or Pony boy winning a GS this year would be a major shock to me, tbqh.

Perhaps in a wrose situation Italy is. A country that has invested heavily on tennis and still hasn't produced a player of significant caliber.

Germany seems to be somewhat behind as well. Not to mention the USA.

out_here_grindin
02-02-2010, 01:55 AM
It is odd because unlike the UK, France has many good players. They probably have the 2nd best group of players in the world behind Spain.

ChinoRios4Ever
02-02-2010, 01:58 AM
i dont know... Chile?

:sad: Chile = 0 GS titles in the open era, only Anita Lizana won Forest Hills in 1937.

Andresito
02-02-2010, 02:47 AM
i dont know... Chile?

Jugando con fuego, si te llegaran a leer el público de Viña...

The funny thing about France is that the french players are much better on fast courts than on clay.

Having said that, at leats France can consolate with Tsonga 2008 title on Paris Masters. It's not a slam, but it's national.

Månu
02-02-2010, 05:52 AM
Noah won Roland Garros in 1983, that's in the last 30 years. But indeed with the massive amount of good players, it's sad France never won since. But good players are not great players and the French tennis players suffer from the French mentality of not being winners. Tsonga probably has the best shot at it in the next few years, or Monfils in RG.

Kolya
02-02-2010, 05:59 AM
Tsonga may win a GS in time but right now there are too many players better than him IMO for him to win one.

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 06:26 AM
Yep, there seems to be a curse. The good thing is - also curses have an end. And that may happen any time soon!:p

Har-Tru
02-02-2010, 09:19 AM
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 09:39 AM
Tsonga came within 2 sets, & you never know when he might go on a tear, though he seems to be playing more cautiously now, which gives him a better chance of reaching the 2nd week, but a worse chance of winning matches once he's there. Monfils does have the talent, he just has the same problem as Murray (and Nadal before them, who solved it): how to incorporate enough aggression into a defensive game.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 09:52 AM
Tsonga came within 2 sets, & you never know when he might go on a tear, though he seems to be playing more cautiously now, which gives him a better chance of reaching the 2nd week, but a worse chance of winning matches once he's there. Monfils does have the talent, he just has the same problem as Murray (and Nadal before them, who solved it): how to incorporate enough aggression into a defensive game.

You've got to be kidding.
The only french player who has truly world class talent is Gasquet but sadly,he's a headcase and even worse,he doesn't have any pride or will to win("i'm almost happy to lose this match " after his loss against Youznhy :rolleyes:).
Perhaps that he can win Wimbledon considering he is one of the only players of his generation to truly excel on grass(Murray and Nadal being the other two).....but even that is very very low probability.

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 10:00 AM
The only french player who has truly world class talent is Gasquet but sadly,he's a headcase and even worse,he doesn't have any pride or will to win("i'm almost happy to lose this match " after his loss against Youznhy :rolleyes:).

:topic: If you quote you should do it completely, and not just taking the part of the sentence which suits your theory.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:01 AM
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html


http://www.sport24.com/var/plain_site/storage/images/football/diaporamas/france-98-la-fete-du-football/france-98-equipe-de-france/3287990-1-fre-FR/france-98-equipe-de-france_diaporama.jpg

http://b9.img.v4.skyrock.net/b92/foot-cup2006/pics/505943965.gif

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/jpg/90_01.jpg

http://f4.img.v4.skyrock.net/f4d/koone/pics/1970492569_small_2.jpg

http://www.gerflor.fr/data/photo/1014.jpg

So much for them being chokers

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:08 AM
:topic: If you quote you should do it completely, and not just taking the part of the sentence which suits your theory.

"J’ai vécu des choses tellement plus dures ces derniers mois que cette défaite est presque un bonheur."


"I've lived things so much worse than that in the last few months that this loss almost makes me happy"

So what's the difference???
It's as bad as the previous sentence if you ask me.
I even have the feeling he is using that doping thing as a way to excuse his future defeats and to take some pressure off from him....but he is not fooling everyone there.
And yes,what he had to go through was hard of course but it's not like he risked to go to jail or had to fight against a grave malady for instance.
At worst,his career could have been over,so what?? It's not like he and his parents don't already have enough money for his future to be secure.
When you hear him talking about this story,it's really like he had a grave malady or something like that.
He seems like a really nice(too nice?) guy but i think he should definitely grow up a bit.

Dini
02-02-2010, 10:19 AM
They're a talented bunch. Well most are.

But they lack in the mental department. Case in point these days: Gasquet and PHM. :( Not saying they'd win grandslams if they were mentally tougher, but it would help if they weren't losing when they were 2 sets to love up each time. :o

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:23 AM
Noah won Roland Garros in 1983, that's in the last 30 years. But indeed with the massive amount of good players, it's sad France never won since. But good players are not great players and the French tennis players suffer from the French mentality of not being winners. Tsonga probably has the best shot at it in the next few years, or Monfils in RG.

If so then how the hell do they manage to do so well in other sports(football,handball,rugby,swimming,rally,etc. ...)???:rolleyes:


They're a talented bunch. Well most are.

But they lack in the mental department. Case in point these days: Gasquet and PHM. :( Not saying they'd win grandslams if they were mentally tougher, but it would help if they weren't losing when they were 2 sets to love up each time. :o

Please,don't put PHM in the same sentence.
Contrary to Gasquet,PHM never had the potential nor the talent to win big tournaments to begin with.
The fact he was a headcase of course didn't help too.

Dini
02-02-2010, 10:26 AM
What's wrong with Paulo's game? :shrug: At Roland Garros I think he would have gone quite deep if he hadn't run into Nadal in 2006. I don't think technically there's much wrong with his game. And I think that's true for most players actually. It's what's between the ears that sometimes makes the difference. Fitness of course too plays a role.

But they all have capable games.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:28 AM
What's wrong with Paulo's game? :shrug: At Roland Garros I think he would have gone quite deep if he hadn't run into Nadal in 2006. I don't think technically there's much wrong with his game. And I think that's true for most players actually. It's what's between the ears that sometimes makes the difference.

They all have capable games.


There is no magic in his game however.
He is just and has actually always been your normal solid baseliner who can occasionnally catch fire,nothing else.

Dini
02-02-2010, 10:32 AM
You can win by being a solid baseliner as long as you're fit enough to play seven best-of-five over two weeks and you're mentally tough. Hewitt had no magic in his game (maybe except for that backhand lob) and he won two grandslams. Since Noah, not a single Frenchie has won a slam. And there sure have been opportunities... but balls is mainly what they lack unfortunately.

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 10:34 AM
It's as bad as the previous sentence if you ask me.
You just don't grasp it, do you?

Yes, worse things happen to human beings every day everywhere, but for him it was probably the worst thing which happend in his whole life. Carrer-threatening at the age of 23, that's nothing, just deal with it. Don't bother us with your feelings, just win the GS title that France is yearning for, who cares about the person behind?

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:37 AM
You can win by being a solid baseliner as long as you're fit enough to play seven best-of-five over two weeks and you're mentally tough. Hewitt had no magic in his game (maybe except for that backhand lob) and he won two grandslams. Since Noah, not a single Frenchie has won a slam. And there sure have been opportunities... but balls is mainly what they lack unfortunately.


Not so many actually.
Most of the french players who made GS finals since Noah actually had no chance before even the match started (Pioline facing Sampras twice in a GS final in Sampras's two favourites tournaments by far,Clement facing Agassi in a GS final in Agassi's favourite tournament by far,etc....).
Tsonga really missed a chance of lifetime two years ago against Djokovic.

And about Hewitt,there were at least two magical things in his game: his passing shots and his return of serve.
In comparaison,PHM has nothing magical in his game

mr_burns
02-02-2010, 10:38 AM
...
Good point:
>>>
The fact that Leconte, Pioline, Grosjean, Gasquet, Monfils & Tsonga~~~ etc. have failed to win even 1 major between them points to the fact that despite all their talent, the French don`t compete very well on the biggest [most pressured] situations!!

BTW, i still think Tsonga is a good shot to win a Slam~~~ so i`d rest my hopes on him [Monfils & Gasquet are headcases]. Jo-Willie could actually pull it off, maybe even surprise everyone by winning @ Wimbledon this year^^!

i don't see Tsonga beating federer on grass at a Slam...
I would give as silly as it sounds Monfils a slim chance at RG...he seems to handle the pressure very well there...depends on nadal and fed, but he could surprise the others

n8
02-02-2010, 10:40 AM
:sad: Chile = 0 GS titles in the open era, only Anita Lizana won Forest Hills in 1937.

Chile's double gold in Athens may not be a Grand Slam but I think it is worth even more to the country. The only gold medals ever won by the Chile at the Olympics. Massu's legend will on longer than many Grand Slam champions.

Dini
02-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Chile's double gold in Athens may not be a Grand Slam but I think it is worth even more to the country. The only gold medals ever won by the Chile at the Olympics. Massu's legend will on longer than many Grand Slam champions.

Massu also won the singles Gold, didn't he?

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:46 AM
i don't see Tsonga beating federer on grass at a Slam...
I would give as silly as it sounds Monfils a slim chance at RG...he seems to handle the pressure very well there...depends on nadal and fed, but he could surprise the others

Federer won't be around forever though,he is 28 now.
It will be interesting to see who will win Wimbledon after he'll retire ,with Nadal having all those injuries,Murray suffering from the pressure of his country and with the other youngsters who can do well on Grass(Gasquet,Tsonga)

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 10:55 AM
You've got to be kidding.
The only french player who has truly world class talent is Gasquet but sadly,he's a headcase and even worse,he doesn't have any pride or will to win("i'm almost happy to lose this match " after his loss against Youznhy :rolleyes:).
Perhaps that he can win Wimbledon considering he is one of the only players of his generation to truly excel on grass(Murray and Nadal being the other two).....but even that is very very low probability.

I disagree, Tsonga, Monfils, & Gasquet are all talented. Monfils has made 1`semi at R.G., Gasquet has made 1 semi at Wimbledon. Tsonga however is the only one who has proved recently he has the game and the heart to beat top players.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 10:57 AM
Yrs, I always thought that was a bit weird. However, you still have some really good players but I'll admit that I don't see any of those winning a GS in the near future. Tsonga winning Wimby this year would be a major shock for me. Come to think of it, any player aside of Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic or Pony boy winning a GS this year would be a major shock to me, tbqh.

Perhaps in a wrose situation Italy is. A country that has invested heavily on tennis and still hasn't produced a player of significant caliber.

Germany seems to be somewhat behind as well. Not to mention the USA.

Italy has never been a great tennis country contrary to France(how many Davis Cups have Italy won for instance??).
France's curse is way way more surprising considering the huge history of this country in that sport and the huge success they've had in the past.

Dini
02-02-2010, 11:02 AM
I disagree, Tsonga, Monfils, & Gasquet are all talented. Monfils has made 1`semi at R.G., Gasquet has made 1 semi at Wimbledon. Tsonga however is the only one who has proved recently he has the game and the heart to beat top players.

Yeah I agree. I don't think it's a coincidence either that out of the lot you mention, Tsonga is the mentally toughest player.

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Yeah I agree. I don't think it's a coincidence either that out of the lot you mention, Tsonga is the mentally toughest player.

Not that that's saying much. :)

yuri27
02-02-2010, 11:05 AM
I disagree, Tsonga, Monfils, & Gasquet are all talented. Monfils has made 1`semi at R.G., Gasquet has made 1 semi at Wimbledon. Tsonga however is the only one who has proved recently he has the game and the heart to beat top players.

Honestly,i don't know where you see "talent" in Tsonga's game or even worse,in Monfils's game.
Tsonga is mostly a ball-basher with a big fighting spirit(his skills at volleying are widely overrated) while Monfils is mostly a retriever who uses his incredible athletic abilities to win.
Gasquet is the only french player who truly has a god-given talent at playing tennis but sadly,he just doesn't know how to use it(or very rarely).:sad:

Dini
02-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Gasquet's problem is not all mental.

His fitness level has been his major downfall usually before he can even start thinking of choking. You'll see him huff and puff - and cramps are not too far away if the match goes to four or five. :(

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Honestly,i don't know where you see "talent" in Tsonga's game or even worse,in Monfils's game.
Tsonga is mostly a ball-basher with a big fighting spirit(his skills at volleying are widely overrated) while Monfils is mostly a retriever who use his incredible athletic abilities to win.
Gasquet is the only french player who truly has a god-given talent at playing tennis but sadly,he just doesn't know how to use it(or very rarely).:sad:

Tsonga has a great serve, great forehand (or did), & is by today's standards extremely good at the net. His performance against Nadal in the A.O. semis was one of the finest displays in the last decade. Monfils is a superb defender with the ability to crack huge serves & groundstrokes, but unfortunately he doesn't use it often enough. Gasquet can be amazing on the rare occasions he is on, but he is missing the most important shot in the modern game, a killer forehand.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Gasquet's problem is not all mental.

His fitness level has been his major downfall usually before he can even start thinking of choking. You'll see him huff and puff - and cramps are not too far away if the match goes to four or five. :(

His fitness would perhaps be better if he putted into more hard work in training(i heard his previous coach,Deblicker,was not a fan of fitness).....and there comes the mental again.;)

Tsonga has a great serve, great forehand (or did), & is by today's standards extremely good at the net. His performance against Nadal in the A.O. semis was one of the finest displays in the last decade. Monfils is a superb defender with the ability to crack huge serves & groundstrokes, but unfortunately he doesn't use it often enough. Gasquet can be amazing on the rare occasions he is on, but he is missing the most important shot in the modern game, a killer forehand.

The likes of Gaudio,Kuerten,Safin or even Murray(despite the fact he has yet to win a Slam) disagree with you ;)

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 11:22 AM
His fitness would perhaps be better if he putted into more hard work in training(i heard his previous coach,Deblicker,was not a fan of fitness).....and there comes the mental again.;)

Listening to Peyre's utterings after he was sacked. ;) Do you really think that Richard got where he once was (nr.7) by talent alone?

Monfils is a superb defender with the ability to crack huge serves & groundstrokes, but unfortunately he doesn't use it often enough.
I totally agree. That's why I think he has a shot in Roland Garros. He needs the crowd, without it I don't see him winning a big title.

Dini
02-02-2010, 11:29 AM
Monfils's problem is his concentration throughout a whole match - it's so up and down. Sometimes I feel he fools around a bit and really loses it. Rasheed has reigned that in a bit, though.

abraxas21
02-02-2010, 11:35 AM
Italy has never been a great tennis country contrary to France(how many Davis Cups have Italy won for instance??).
France's curse is way way more surprising considering the huge history of this country in that sport and the huge success they've had in the past.

Yes, but still the Italian tennis federation have invested heavily on tennis and they haven't produced players of top class capacity... At least the French have quite a few players within the top 50.

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 11:36 AM
The likes of Gaudio,Kuerten,Safin or even Murray(despite the fact he has yet to win a Slam) disagree with you ;)

Fair point. Gasquet will win a slam if he plays Coria in the final. :)

yuri27
02-02-2010, 11:54 AM
Listening to Peyre's utterings after he was sacked. ;) Do you really think that Richard got where he once was (nr.7) by talent alone?


In most part,yes i think.
If he did REALLY work hard in training then never in hell he would be tired after only two sets or gets injured so frequently(especially considering his style of play is for instance nowhere near as physically demanding as Nadal's style of play).
I sometimes really question his dedication to tennis and most of my friends think the same

n8
02-02-2010, 11:55 AM
Massu also won the singles Gold, didn't he?

Yeah. That's why I only said Massu (not Gonzalez as well). I said double gold as in two gold medals, not doubles gold.

chalkdust
02-02-2010, 01:18 PM
Gasquet on grass is the only guy I've seen who I really thought "Wow, this guy could be the best on this surface". I don't need to mention his compensating frailties. Otherwise, Tsonga could obviously do it on hard courts but I wouldn't say he is favourite to achieve that during his career. The others aren't good enough, except conceivably Monfils on clay if he is very lucky. I suppose Pioline and Leconte were possible candidates, and did make one slam final each - but neither looked remotely likely to win (Pioline v Sampras (1997), Leconte v Wilander (1988)). Forget? Forget it!

You can have as many very good players as you like but to win a slam you just need one guy who is good enough to dominate on a given day on a given surface. That sort of peak performance is not hugely correlated with having x number of players in the top ten or twenty. The current era is also very tough: aside from Fed and Rafa, the other 18 players in the top twenty share only 5 slams between them and only Hewitt (2) has more than one. The others are Roddick, Delpo and Nole, all of them with big games and, even then, on another day it might not have happened for them. Hewitt must be up there in terms of all-time mental toughness and maybe also got a bit lucky with his competition (not trying to take anything away from him).

I don't think the French have any sort of collective mental block. It just so happens their best guy does have.

Dini
02-02-2010, 01:33 PM
Yeah. That's why I only said Massu (not Gonzalez as well). I said double gold as in two gold medals, not doubles gold.

I stand corrected.

Purple Rainbow
02-02-2010, 01:44 PM
If so then how the hell do they manage to do so well in other sports(football,handball,rugby,swimming,rally,etc. ...)???:rolleyes:


French generally underperform in sports and it's not unreasonable to pin this down to a cultural mindset.
I don't think French athletes in general have the desire to win that, say, Americans, Australians and Spaniards have.

I'm not that impressed by the French results at the sports you mention.
French football success is a generation ago and was in large part thanks to one man's brilliance.
France has a few excellent swimmers, but where was Manadou when it really mattered? And leave it to France to lose the 4*100 relay, despite a big lead and having Bernard swim the final leg.
Rugby? I don't remember France ever winning the World Cup?
I'll give you handball and rally, but with all due respect, those are fringe sports. As are fencing and bmx, pretty much the only other sports France has won gold medals in at the most recent Olympics.

France really underperforms at sports, especially for a big country with a long tradition in sports. Out of the hundreds of French cyclists who have raced the Tour de France in recent years, who is the last one to have had a shot at winning? The only one I can recall is Moreau, and he never really had a shot, had he?

It's the same with tennis. Dozens of professional tennis players, most players in the top 100. Players from other countries win the big prizes.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 01:44 PM
Gasquet on grass is the only guy I've seen who I really thought "Wow, this guy could be the best on this surface".

Agree.
Even above his performance against Roddick,it's his performance against Murray during 2 sets and half at Wimbledon 2008 which completely blowed me away(he had something like 43 winners and 4 UEs at one point).
That was magical stuff.

yuri27
02-02-2010, 01:52 PM
French generally underperform in sports and it's not unreasonable to pin this down to a cultural mindset.
I don't think French athletes in general have the desire to win that, say, Americans, Australians and Spaniards have.

I'm not that impressed by the French results at the sports you mention.
French football success is a generation ago and was in large part thanks to one man's brilliance.
France has a few excellent swimmers, but where was Manadou when it really mattered? And leave it to France to lose the 4*100 relay, despite a big lead and having Bernard swim the final leg.
Rugby? I don't remember France ever winning the World Cup?
I'll give you handball and rally, but with all due respect, those are fringe sports. As are fencing and bmx, pretty much the only other sports France has won gold medals in at the most recent Olympics.

France really underperforms at sports, especially for a big country with a long tradition in sports. Out of the hundreds of French cyclists who have raced the Tour de France in recent years, who is the last one to have had a shot at winning? The only one I can recall is Moreau, and he never really had a shot, had he?

It's the same with tennis. Dozens of professional tennis players, most players in the top 100. Players from other countries win the big prizes.

Really???
They are not more underperforming than Great Britain then.
France have 191 gold medals in Summer Olympics comparing to Great Britain's 207 gold medals(not much more than France then) and France are better than England in sports like Tennis,Handball,Basketball,Volleyball and even Football(1 WC and 2 Euros for France vs 1 WC for England)

Oh and your comment about Manaudou is quite funny: despite her early retirement,the girl is probably one of the best swimmer of all time(hold WRs at 200 and 400m until Pellegrinni broke them,won the olympic gold in 2004 at 19 and looked like the girlie version of Phelps during the World Championships in 2007).So how can you say she didn't win when it really mattered??
A gold medal doesn't matter??
Anyway,if you talk about her failure in the last Olympics then why not talk about Alain Bernard's superb win in the most prestigious distance(100m) in Swimming??

About rugby: France might have not won the RWC yet but they have won multiple 6Ns and Grand Slams.They never were favourites to win any RWC anyway contrary to New Zealand(the true chokers in rugby as they've won only 1 RWC despite their outrageous dominance most of the time)

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 01:58 PM
France really underperforms at sports, especially for a big country with a long tradition in sports.
There is more to life than being successful in sports. ;) There is a lot to be admired in France. And I am not even French. :p


Even above his performance against Roddick,it's his performance against Murray during 2 sets and half at Wimbledon 2008 which completely blowed me away(he had something like 43 winners and 4 UEs at one point)
That can't be true, taking into account that he lost the first two sets. And I have seen that match, too, more than once to be honest. :p Tennis-wise the five setter against Murray the year after, even if it was a defeat, was much better, though. Roddick stubbornly kept going to the BH side.

Har-Tru
02-02-2010, 01:59 PM
http://www.smilespedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/knife.jpg

yuri27
02-02-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.smilespedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/knife.jpg

Care to name all the countries which surrendered under Napoleon??:lol:

There is more to life than being successful in sports. ;) There is a lot to be admired in France. And I am not even French. :p



That can't be true, taking into account that he lost the first two sets. And I have seen that match, too, more than once to be honest. :p Tennis-wise the five setter against Murray the year after, even if it was a defeat, was much better, though. Roddick stubbornly kept going to the BH side.

You didn't read my post well,it seems :rolleyes:
I said that it was his match against Murray which impressed me the most.

Purple Rainbow
02-02-2010, 02:12 PM
There is more to life than being successful in sports. ;) There is a lot to be admired in France. And I am not even French. :p


I wholeheartedly agree.

chalkdust
02-02-2010, 02:17 PM
LOL at French Army Knife pic!!!!:D

bokehlicious
02-02-2010, 02:17 PM
There is more to life than being successful in sports. ;) There is a lot to be admired in France. And I am not even French. :p


:lol: gotta love your devotion to France :awww: :hug: :p

Purple Rainbow
02-02-2010, 02:23 PM
Really???
They are not more underperforming than Great Britain then.
France have 191 gold medals in Summer Olympics comparing to Great Britain's 207 gold medals(not much more than France then) and France are better than England in sports like Tennis,Handball,Basketball,Volleyball and even Football(1 WC and 2 Euros for France vs 1 WC for England)

You mention a lot of sports British just don't compete in. It's like saying Britain is better at sports than France because Brits are better at cricket, golf and sailing.


Oh and your comment about Manaudou is quite funny: despite her early retirement,the girl is probably one of the best swimmer of all time(hold WRs at 200 and 400m until Pellegrinni broke them,won the olympic gold in 2004 at 19 and looked like the girlie version of Phelps during the World Championships in 2007).So how can you say she didn't win when it really mattered??
A gold medal doesn't matter??

You exactly made my point. She looked set to become the female Phelps, except.. she didn't.
Phelps went on to win 14 gold medals (and counting). Manadou managed no better than 7th place in Beijing and retired with a lone gold Olympic medal. That's not the best female swimmer of all time. It's another undelivered promise in French sports.

Anyway,if you talk about her failure in the last Olympics then why not talk about Alain Bernard's superb win in the most prestigious distance(100m) in Swimming??

I've talkes about Bernard at the Olympics. He choked away a huge lead in the 4*100 realy.

Listen, one expects a country like France to come up with some world class performers. Bernard is up there, no doubt. But why do countries like Spain and Germany consistenly come up with so much more champions?

About rugby: France might have not won the RWC yet but they have won multiple 6Ns and Grand Slams.They never were favourites to win any RWC anyway contrary to New Zealand(the true chokers in rugby as they've won only 1 RWC despite their outrageous dominance most of the time)

Fair enough. I'm not very knowledgable about rugby.

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 02:31 PM
You didn't read my post well,it seems :rolleyes:
I said that it was his match against Murray which impressed me the most.
touché. Finally we agree on something. :wavey:

yuri27
02-02-2010, 02:39 PM
You mention a lot of sports British just don't compete in. It's like saying Britain is better at sports than France because Brits are better at cricket, golf and sailing.

Cricket,golf and sailing,now talk about sports!:worship:

bokehlicious
02-02-2010, 02:42 PM
Cricket,golf and sailing,now talk about sports!:worship:

Not sure rally, handball and biathlon fit more as "true sports" :shrug: :o

yuri27
02-02-2010, 02:44 PM
Listen, one expects a country like France to come up with some world class performers. Bernard is up there, no doubt. But why do countries like Spain and Germany consistenly come up with so much more champions?

I'll give you tennis but it's totally false in other sports like football,handball,basketball or in almost every olympic sports.
I mean,just compare the number of olympic gold medals of Spain and France since the creation of the Olympics.......it says it all,really.

Not sure rally, handball and biathlon fit more as "true sports" :shrug: :o

They are certainly much more demanding physically than "sports" like golf and cricket :p

Purple Rainbow
02-02-2010, 02:56 PM
I'll give you tennis but it's totally false in other sports like football,handball,basketball or in almost every olympic sports.
I mean,just compare the number of olympic gold medals of Spain and France since the creation of the Olympics.......it says it all,really.


It certainly says a lot. Spain has effectively been a 3rd world country as far as sports are concerned (and probably not just sports) until the 1990's.
A quick wiki search also taught me that France has won almost one sixth of all their Olympic medals, ever, at the 1900 games in Paris. I am especially impressed at how you swept the medals at croquet! :worship:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_at_the_1900_Summer_Olympics

yuri27
02-02-2010, 03:18 PM
It certainly says a lot. Spain has effectively been a 3rd world country as far as sports are concerned (and probably not just sports) until the 1990's.
A quick wiki search also taught me that France has won almost one sixth of all their Olympic medals, ever, at the 1900 games in Paris. I am especially impressed at how you swept the medals at croquet! :worship:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_at_the_1900_Summer_Olympics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

That's all that needs to be known there.

Even without considering the 1900 games in Paris,France totally blow Spain away when it comes to the all time medals table.
Stop the bitching and face the facts,man.
Even since the 1992 Olympics,France have consistently been winning far more medals than Spain during the summer games.

Har-Tru
02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
Clinging on to the past are we not Yuri? ;)

Arkulari
02-02-2010, 05:26 PM
well, right now we're the Euro champions in both football and basketball, and the #1 one teams in football and tennis are from our country

MotoGP, F1, Cycling, Rally, Handball...

Spain has been the powerhouse of sports in Europe of the last decade at least and it's due to the conditioning and the mentality, French sportsmen/women don't tend to give their best every single time and that's why even if they are very good, sometimes they come second to others :shrug:

the tennis federation issue is pretty weird, they have almost as much depth as we do, but somehow they are all underachievers and it comes from the mentality part, they might be more talented but they refuse to work as hard as it is needed to win

rofe
02-02-2010, 05:30 PM
This is true of former tennis powerhouses like Sweden, Germany and Australia and to a lesser extent USA too. :shrug:

yuri27
02-02-2010, 05:31 PM
well, right now we're the Euro champions in both football and basketball, and the #1 one teams in football and tennis are from our country

MotoGP, F1, Cycling, Rally, Handball...

Spain has been the powerhouse of sports in Europe of the last decade at least and it's due to the conditioning and the mentality, French sportsmen/women don't tend to give their best every single time and that's why even if they are very good, sometimes they come second to others :shrug:

the tennis federation issue is pretty weird, they have almost as much depth as we do, but somehow they are all underachievers and it comes from the mentality part, they might be more talented but they refuse to work as hard as it is needed to win

Not to mention they don't go to the good doctors.:p
Only joking ;)

Dougie
02-02-2010, 05:35 PM
I might get slaughtered for this, but while the french have produced many good players (good enough to win a DC when they teamed up), they haven´t really produced any single great player after Noah, who was, in a way, destined to win a GS. Pioline was a solid player, but it took him forever to win a title to begin with, and he really wasn´t THAT good. Leconte was a good player, but more of a showman than a great champion. Clement overdid himself by making it that far in a slam. PHM and Gasquet are good players, but not really even competitors for a Slam title.

DC seems to have been a different story. They obiously play with a lot of heart, and players like Forget and Leconte really pumped the whole team and crowd up. It was more like a good football team that had great fans but not that many star players. As a team they were great.

Arkulari
02-02-2010, 05:35 PM
Not to mention they don't go to the good doctors.:p
Only joking ;)

nah, they just get confused in their sports, like Henry thinking it was a handball match :D

yuri27
02-02-2010, 05:39 PM
I might get slaughtered for this, but while the french have produced many good players (good enough to win a DC when they teamed up), they haven´t really produced any single great player after Noah, who was, in a way, destined to win a GS. Pioline was a solid player, but it took him forever to win a title to begin with, and he really wasn´t THAT good. Leconte was a good player, but more of a showman than a great champion. Clement overdid himself by making it that far in a slam. PHM and Gasquet are good players, but not really even competitors for a Slam title.
DC seems to have been a different story. They obiously play with a lot of heart, and players like Forget and Leconte really pumped the whole team and crowd up. It was more like a good football team that had great fans but not that many star players. As a team they were great.

Once again,please not put PHM in the same sentence as Gasquet.
Gasquet has beaten Federer at 18 blastering him with winners,has made a Wimbledon 1/2 final and 2 MS finals at only 21(both lost against a peak Federer),has won 5 tournaments(in every surface) and has made the TMC.
PHM is not even close to that.
PHM has not underachieved while Gasquet has hugely underachieved so far and yet,his results have been far more impressive than PHM's results(and he is only 23).

Dougie
02-02-2010, 05:45 PM
Once again,please not put PHM in the same sentence as Gasquet.
Gasquet has beaten Federer at 18 blastering him with winners,has made a Wimbledon 1/2 final and 2 MS finals at only 21(both lost against a peak Federer),has won 5 tournaments(in every surface) and has made the TMC.
PHM is not even close to that.
PHM has not underachieved while Gasquet has hugely underachieved so far and yet,his results have been far more impressive than him.

my intention was not really to make it sound like PHM and Gasquet are equal as players, obviously Gasquet is far more talented and has achieved more. What I meant was that at the moment both their chances of winning a Slam seem very, very slim. And I was under the impression that we´re talking about french players success in GS´s.

Arkulari
02-02-2010, 05:50 PM
right now, France's best shot is with Tsonga, he's the most successful player of his generation, even more than Gasquet but is a headcase just the same :o

Har-Tru
02-02-2010, 06:06 PM
Not to mention they don't go to the good doctors.:p
Only joking ;)

Joking my arse. As if France has forever been free of doping accusations... Festina anyone? 93 Champions League (the only European Cup France ever "won")?

Zirconek
02-02-2010, 06:13 PM
well, right now we're the Euro champions in both football and basketball, and the #1 one teams in football and tennis are from our country

MotoGP, F1, Cycling, Rally, Handball...

Spain has been the powerhouse of sports in Europe of the last decade at least and it's due to the conditioning and the mentality, French sportsmen/women don't tend to give their best every single time and that's why even if they are very good, sometimes they come second to others :shrug:

the tennis federation issue is pretty weird, they have almost as much depth as we do, but somehow they are all underachievers and it comes from the mentality part, they might be more talented but they refuse to work as hard as it is needed to win


Not really :p :shrug:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/medals_table/default.stm

Puschkin
02-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Spain has been the powerhouse of sports in Europe of the last decade at least and it's due to the conditioning and the mentality, French sportsmen/women don't tend to give their best every single time and that's why even if they are very good, sometimes they come second to others :shrug:

the tennis federation issue is pretty weird, they have almost as much depth as we do, but somehow they are all underachievers and it comes from the mentality part, they might be more talented but they refuse to work as hard as it is needed to win

What about Spanish female tennis then? Don't they work hard enough?

LoveFifteen
02-02-2010, 06:39 PM
I know we are talking about men's tennis, and there's no need to rehash all the hatred for women's tennis on this board, but France has been a total Grand Slam failure. Mauresmo won two Slams, and some people would count Mary Pierce's two Slams as well.

Also, Justine Henin, while not being French, certainly has to have a lot in common with the French mentality as a Walloon, right?

Okay, maybe I am reaching a little, but I think it's not fair to say that France (or the French mentality) is cursed in Grand Slam tennis.

Har-Tru
02-02-2010, 07:10 PM
What about Spanish female tennis then? Don't they work hard enough?

They're busy cooking and cleaning.

DrJules
02-02-2010, 07:17 PM
Explanation is that the players since Noah have not been good enough talent and skill wise to win. There was always an exceptional player in their way.

Leconte in the 80's had Wilander at the French Open and Becker at Wimbledon.

Pioline in the 90's had Sampras - not necessary to say more.

Clement, Gasquet and Tsonga had to face Agassi, Federer and Djokovic so were stopped by very high quality opponents.

It says something when Tsonga is the only French player since Noah who has lost in grand slam final to a player who has a career record of less than 5 grand slams - Djokovic.

Mateya
02-02-2010, 07:32 PM
They have the game, but are headcases (Monfils, Gasquet, Tsonga, PHM)
The ones who are not (Simon), don't have the game.

That's the curse for you. :shrug:

Arkulari
02-02-2010, 07:37 PM
Not really :p :shrug:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/medals_table/default.stm

see the sports I mentioned earlier? :p

we have had great success in team sports but the Olympics have a great great variety of events, some of which aren't popular in all countries, for example GB would probably win all the rowing events and the cycling events at the Olympics but the latter wouldn't produce the same amount of pro champs as we do, France would defeat us in Rugby but we would kick their asses in basketball and so on and on ;)

Our female tennis players have been stronger in doubles in the last years, Ruano Pascual for example won tons of GS in that category, we have won Fed Cup 5 times, etc

Same with the russian players, their female tennis is much stronger than their male counterparts (specially since Marat retired) but it doesn't mean that the males suck, it's just that there are more females and they reach the finals more ;)

yuri27
02-02-2010, 08:06 PM
They have the game, but are headcases (Monfils, Gasquet, Tsonga, PHM)
The ones who are not (Simon), don't have the game.

That's the curse for you. :shrug:

Monfils and Tsonga are not headcases.

Arkulari
02-02-2010, 10:58 PM
Tsonga is a headcase, Monfils is just a clown :shrug:

Dini
02-02-2010, 11:03 PM
I don't agree with Tsonga being a headcase. He can be stupid with shot selection and lose concentration/get carried away at times, yes, but he wins a lot of close tie breaks and has won quite a few matches coming back from a deficit. He was impressive too in the two 5-setters he's played. I also think he relishes playing against the top guns, with wins posted vs Fed, Nadal and Djokovic. Last year, he was the only good DC player for France and never underestimate the pressure of playing for your country. :shrug:

GrosjeantheGreat
02-03-2010, 01:01 AM
Spain has been the powerhouse of sports in Europe of the last decade at least

MotoGP
F1
Rally
cycling
handball...

Non!!!!!!

Olympics?----G B S T
France --------7 16 17 40
Spain ---------5 10 3 18

MotoGP belongz to Italy.

F1? Only two championshipz for Alonso!

Handball? France are ze reigning World and European championz and more successful than Spain!

Rally? Have thine earz ne'er heard of Sebastian Loeb, current six-time world rally champion from FRANCE!?

Cycling? Ballanger, Chausson, Absalon, Sanchez... sniggering at thy falderolic attemptz to belittle ze famed and fabled nation of France!

Take thy filthy mouth and wash with ze sweetest scented soap and zen wash some more for thee are naught but an unwholesome, ogrish whore; an inhuman beast, prowling ze savage, sewage-seeped streetz of Barcelona!

Yea, begone! Back, back I say!

Action Jackson
02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
No curse, the players just aren't good enough.

Getta
02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
Grosjean, the more often you post, the better.

:lol:

Sunset of Age
02-03-2010, 01:15 AM
Grosjean, the more often you post, the better.

:lol:

+1. :yeah:

Getta
02-03-2010, 01:17 AM
hi, Karin. :D

No curse, the players just aren't good enough.

yup, sensors aren't on his level.

Arkulari
02-03-2010, 01:36 AM
I have to thank you for the enlightment GrosjeantheGreat, what would this forum do without you? :worship: