Who will be next to win a GS? Djokovic or Murray? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who will be next to win a GS? Djokovic or Murray?

jeremda01
02-01-2010, 03:19 AM
Like the title says, "Who will be next to win a GS? Djokovic or Murray?"

Mario Sharapov
02-01-2010, 03:30 AM
Djokovic has done it duh.

jeremda01
02-01-2010, 05:03 AM
i mean to win any gs weather it be Djoko's 2nd or Murray's 1st?

serveandvolley80
02-01-2010, 05:09 AM
Too bad there is a neither option, Delpo too good on a fast hard court, Roger too good on a slower hard court, Nadal too good on clay, Roger almost unbeatable and Wimbledon.

Only way these guys win a slam, if they get extremely lucky. I am talking about this season of course, there time will come, but their games need to go even further and improve, they get into bad habits of becoming too defensive in matches when they are ahead.

jeremda01
02-01-2010, 05:13 AM
mod or admin, could you please add a neither option here. :)

MIMIC
02-01-2010, 05:40 AM
Very hard to say. I'd probably go with Murray (2010 US Open) because Djokovic hasn't been showing up lately. That is unless Djokovic is still #2 and isn't on Fed's side of the draw again.

Audacity
02-01-2010, 05:41 AM
Neither as long as Federer is around.

coonster14
02-01-2010, 06:01 AM
can't really see Nole winning his 2nd slam or Muzza winning his 1st slam unless someone takes out Federer before the final.

Nole is Fed's whipping boy at the slams (yes I know Nole has done it once in 2008 but since then, he has not done much), and Muzza will not win a slam until he fixes up his 2 main issues (weak 2nd serve, forehand is too short on the defense).

HarryMan
02-01-2010, 06:06 AM
Both are very talented and should win some slams. I just don't think they can beat an in form Federer. If Nadal drops further and has a resurgence, and happens to play Fed in slam semi's or quarters, and beats him, then Novak and Andy will have great chances (I am pretty sure both of them are good enough to take care of Del Potro and Nadal). Of course Davydenko could also benefit a lot if Nadal takes care of Federer.

Clydey
02-01-2010, 06:18 AM
Too bad there is a neither option, Delpo too good on a fast hard court, Roger too good on a slower hard court, Nadal too good on clay, Roger almost unbeatable and Wimbledon.

Only way these guys win a slam, if they get extremely lucky. I am talking about this season of course, there time will come, but their games need to go even further and improve, they get into bad habits of becoming too defensive in matches when they are ahead.

Del Potro has lost to Murray 4 times on hardcourt, of all different types. So I have to ask, what planet are you living on that makes you think he's "too good" on a fast hardcourt?

HarryMan
02-01-2010, 06:24 AM
Del Potro has lost to Murray 4 times on hardcourt, of all different types. So I have to ask, what planet are you living on that makes you think he's "too good" on a fast hardcourt?

I think people here have huge expectations from Del Potro. I am actually surprised some believe, apart from Nadal, he is Federer's biggest challenge (I just hope these guys don't turn their backs on him should he fail to live up to their expectations). I think Federer has played a lot better against Murray on each of the two slam finals as against what he did at US final last year.

And besides, Del Potro has a losing record to not only Federer but also Murray.

Clydey
02-01-2010, 06:28 AM
I think people here have huge expectations from Del Potro. I am actually surprised some believe, apart from Nadal, he is Federer's biggest challenge (I just hope these guys don't turn their backs on him should he fail to live up to their expectations). I think Federer has played a lot better against Murray on each of the two slam finals as against what he did at US final last year.

And besides, Del Potro has a losing record to not only Federer but also Murray.

Precisely. I'd never wish for someone to play poorly in order for Murray to break through at the slams, but it would have been nice if Federer was as charitable today as he was at the USO last year.

I think Del Potro is a fantastic ball striker and can be lethal when he's on form. He isn't a major obstacle for Murray, though. Federer is the only real obstacle for Murray in the slams. I think he either needs to avoid Federer or beat him before the final.

serveandvolley80
02-01-2010, 06:31 AM
Del Potro has lost to Murray 4 times on hardcourt, of all different types. So I have to ask, what planet are you living on that makes you think he's "too good" on a fast hardcourt?

Its called improvement, the guy has grown by leaps and bounds the last season, if you honestly do not believe Del Potro is not a better player then Murray currently(and that's a big difference i am saying currently) then you are delusional.

Talent and variety is one thing, but it takes mental prowess and actually executing, the guy has a slam to his name, so you can take that little head to head record and store it away in your memory because it does not mean anything when it comes to big matches.

Mechlan
02-01-2010, 06:43 AM
Its called improvement, the guy has grown by leaps and bounds the last season, if you honestly do not believe Del Potro is not a better player then Murray currently(and that's a big difference i am saying currently) then you are delusional.

Talent and variety is one thing, but it takes mental prowess and actually executing, the guy has a slam to his name, so you can take that little head to head record and store it away in your memory because it does not mean anything when it comes to big matches.

I don't think Del Potro is better than Murray currently and it's not delusional at all. Del Potro had a great USO and is a much better player than he used to be, but the rankings are objective and the true indicator of who's been better over the past year.

serveandvolley80
02-01-2010, 06:45 AM
I don't think Del Potro is better than Murray currently and it's not delusional at all. Del Potro had a great USO and is a much better player than he used to be, but the rankings are objective and the true indicator of who's been better over the past year.

Winning a tournament in Canada or winning the US open, hmmm that's a tough choice :)

You really don't believe the gap between Murray and Del Potro has shrunk? hes the number 4 player in the world, you make him seem like hes not worthy or something.

Clydey
02-01-2010, 06:54 AM
Its called improvement, the guy has grown by leaps and bounds the last season, if you honestly do not believe Del Potro is not a better player then Murray currently(and that's a big difference i am saying currently) then you are delusional.

Talent and variety is one thing, but it takes mental prowess and actually executing, the guy has a slam to his name, so you can take that little head to head record and store it away in your memory because it does not mean anything when it comes to big matches.

He's improved a lot since he lost to Murray at the WTF? He improved so much that he got booted out in the 4th round.

The guy has a slam to his name, yes. Like I said earlier, so does Thomas Johansson. Federer's level had a lot to do with Del Potro winning that match.

Clydey
02-01-2010, 06:55 AM
Winning a tournament in Canada or winning the US open, hmmm that's a tough choice :)

You really don't believe the gap between Murray and Del Potro has shrunk? hes the number 4 player in the world, you make him seem like hes not worthy or something.

He's the number 5 player in the world. Murray is number 3.

HarryMan
02-01-2010, 06:58 AM
Its called improvement, the guy has grown by leaps and bounds the last season, if you honestly do not believe Del Potro is not a better player then Murray currently(and that's a big difference i am saying currently) then you are delusional.

Talent and variety is one thing, but it takes mental prowess and actually executing, the guy has a slam to his name, so you can take that little head to head record and store it away in your memory because it does not mean anything when it comes to big matches.

I will give him credit for winning his first slam, but if he was indeed better than Murray, why didn't he make it past the first week at the AO this year? Murray has performed a lot better and is the better player at the moment (although Del Potro has already achieved the higest prize by winning a slam).

Mechlan
02-01-2010, 07:02 AM
Winning a tournament in Canada or winning the US open, hmmm that's a tough choice :)

You really don't believe the gap between Murray and Del Potro has shrunk? hes the number 4 player in the world, you make him seem like hes not worthy or something.

You said it would be delusional to think Murray was better than Del Potro. Obviously they're very close, and Del Potro has the Slam to his name already. But Murray has been around longer and owns several Masters titles and now multiple Slam finals. And, as Clydey pointed out, the H2H edge. It's close, and I think the rankings are a fair indicator of who's better right now.

Acer
02-01-2010, 07:50 AM
I really can't decide *shrugs*

Mosquito3
02-01-2010, 09:44 AM
I guess Murray is goin to take his first Slam in the next 356 days....probably USO 2010 or AO 2011.

Sophocles
02-01-2010, 10:09 AM
Djokovic seems to have lost his way a bit, so I'd have to say Murray, assuming he learns from this loss rather than getting dispirited by it.

paseo
02-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Murray.

Vida
02-01-2010, 11:15 AM
Precisely. I'd never wish for someone to play poorly in order for Murray to break through at the slams, but it would have been nice if Federer was as charitable today as he was at the USO last year.

I think Del Potro is a fantastic ball striker and can be lethal when he's on form. He isn't a major obstacle for Murray, though. Federer is the only real obstacle for Murray in the slams. I think he either needs to avoid Federer or beat him before the final.

thats a bit of a stretch, since your guy has only 2 finals to his name, and those are the only times he played fed at slams. what happened at the rest of them?

look for delpo and cilic to improve even more, and djokovic (perhaps) to come back it will get a lot tougher for murray. also keep in mind he isnt getting younger and one can have only so many chances.

also it remains a question how much can he improve, if at all. people who have talked about him needing to become more aggressive were right, as was evident in both semis and finals in AO.

Tripster
02-01-2010, 11:21 AM
If Djokovic is playing on the clay courts as good as last year I would consider him as Nr.1 contender for RG. Of course he would have to step up mentally again. (key assumption: Nadal won't be 100% fit)

For Murray it should be quite difficult to win a slam in the near future. On clay, he's just not good enough and on the hard courts there is just too much competition.

Persimmon
02-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Has to be Murray. I don't see Djokovic or Del Potro winning their second slam before Murray wins his first.

LocoPorElTenis
02-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Precisely. I'd never wish for someone to play poorly in order for Murray to break through at the slams, but it would have been nice if Federer was as charitable today as he was at the USO last year.

I think Del Potro is a fantastic ball striker and can be lethal when he's on form. He isn't a major obstacle for Murray, though. Federer is the only real obstacle for Murray in the slams. I think he either needs to avoid Federer or beat him before the final.

You also have to consider that Federer won't play at this level forever, and there doesn't seem to be a crop of youngsters coming up to dominate the game in the next 2-4 years. IMO Murray-Djokovic-Potro (along with someone like Cilic or a yet-unexpected player) may well win several slams each in the 2011-2013 period.

Also while generally I agree that Federer is a bigger hurdle than Del Potro for Murray, things are not as clear cut, Murray can beat Federer at a (hard) slam and Del Potro can beat Murray. Chances may be less than 50% but they're substantially over 0%.

Persimmon
02-01-2010, 11:51 AM
I guess Murray is goin to take his first Slam in the next 356 days....probably USO 2010 or AO 2011.

That's my bet.

Puschkin
02-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Neither. :p

BIGMARAT
02-01-2010, 02:45 PM
One thing I'm sure of.
Nole and Murray will be 1 and 2 for 2011 and will be winning slams.

Farrow
02-01-2010, 03:07 PM
If Djokovic is playing on the clay courts as good as last year I would consider him as Nr.1 contender for RG. Of course he would have to step up mentally again. (key assumption: Nadal won't be 100% fit)

For Murray it should be quite difficult to win a slam in the near future. On clay, he's just not good enough and on the hard courts there is just too much competition.

I agree.

If Nadal doesn't show up at the French playing his best tennis, the winner will be Federer, or Djokovic if he plays as well as he was on clay prior to the 2009 RG. Del Potro has a chance too I suppose.

Djokovic is a contender for all of the slams (though currently has less of a chance at Wimbledon). Murray has no chance at Roland Garros.

rocketassist
02-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree.

If Nadal doesn't show up at the French playing his best tennis, the winner will be Federer, or Djokovic if he plays as well as he was on clay prior to the 2009 RG. Del Potro has a chance too I suppose.

Djokovic is a contender for all of the slams (though currently has less of a chance at Wimbledon). Murray has no chance at Roland Garros.

Djokovic is not a Wimbledon contender :lol: He's as good on grass as Murray is on clay, i.e. not great. :shrug:

Everko
02-01-2010, 03:58 PM
Djokovic for sure. Murray can't jump over the hump

Amber Spyglass
02-01-2010, 06:40 PM
Djokovic is not a Wimbledon contender :lol: He's as good on grass as Murray is on clay, i.e. not great. :shrug:

Bulls**t,Djoko is a confidence player,he wasn't confident last two years in Wimbledon,for different reasons(there was a kidnap threat in 2008 from extremists,which he refuses to discuss but certainly hasn't denied)last year that was his low point of the year and he admitted himself that he was going through a bit of a meltdown in confidence for those few weeks after Madrid.To say he can't play good on grass is just wrong.He played excellent in Queens 08, and got to the semis of Wimbledon 07 and took a set off Nadal despite being exhausted by that point after his ridiculous schedule,as I recall Nadal brought Fed to 5 sets in that final too.I admit that when not confident it is his worst surface,he finds it easier to struggle through his bad patches on other surfaces.But it's all to do with confidence,if he's confident he becomes just as much of a contender as Murray on the grass

Farrow
02-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Bulls**t,Djoko is a confidence player,he wasn't confident last two years in Wimbledon,for different reasons(there was a kidnap threat in 2008 from extremists,which he refuses to discuss but certainly hasn't denied)last year that was his low point of the year and he admitted himself that he was going through a bit of a meltdown in confidence for those few weeks after Madrid.To say he can't play good on grass is just wrong.He played excellent in Queens 08, and got to the semis of Wimbledon 07 and took a set off Nadal despite being exhausted by that point after his ridiculous schedule,as I recall Nadal brought Fed to 5 sets in that final too.I admit that when not confident it is his worst surface,he finds it easier to struggle through his bad patches on other surfaces.But it's all to do with confidence,if he's confident he becomes just as much of a contender as Murray on the grass

This.

To suggest that Djokovic is only as good on grass as Murray is on clay is, imo, ridiculous. Djokovic has had some great grass results, the finals of Queens (2008) and Halle (2009) as well as the semis of Wimbledon in 2007. The best Murray has done on clay is the quarter finals of Monte Carlo, Madrid and Roland Garros. IMO, 2 finals and a semi better three quarters ;)

Actually, I don't think Murray is that much better on grass than Djokovic. Both finals Novak contested on grass were relatively close - the Queens loss was to Nadal, who then went on win Wimbledon. Murray beat Blake in the final of Queens this year to win the title.

Djokovic has matched Murray's achievements at Wimbledon. The same cannot be said of Murray at the Roland Garros.

Sophocles
02-01-2010, 08:09 PM
So far, Djokovic has been better on grass than Murray has been on clay.

CplusK
02-01-2010, 08:13 PM
i guess murray but he needs mental toughness. pressure makes him unreliable.

Noleta
02-01-2010, 09:20 PM
Murray already reached one this year

Still waiting for Nole though...if Rafa still isn't 100%,he can reach the RG final,but with Nole you never know.

Vida
02-01-2010, 11:37 PM
So far, Djokovic has been better on grass than Murray has been on clay.

also, djokovic has been better on clay than murray on grass.

Clydey
02-02-2010, 06:28 AM
thats a bit of a stretch, since your guy has only 2 finals to his name, and those are the only times he played fed at slams. what happened at the rest of them?

look for delpo and cilic to improve even more, and djokovic (perhaps) to come back it will get a lot tougher for murray. also keep in mind he isnt getting younger and one can have only so many chances.

also it remains a question how much can he improve, if at all. people who have talked about him needing to become more aggressive were right, as was evident in both semis and finals in AO.

In the finals, yes. After the first set in the semis, though, Murray was aggressive. He bossed the points after he got the break in the 2nd set.

I mean on current form the only player I'd pick as favourite against Murray in the slams (outside of clay) is Federer. Maybe Nadal, assuming he hits Wimbledon 2008 form.

Vida
02-02-2010, 06:52 AM
In the finals, yes. After the first set in the semis, though, Murray was aggressive. He bossed the points after he got the break in the 2nd set.

I mean on current form the only player I'd pick as favourite against Murray in the slams (outside of clay) is Federer. Maybe Nadal, assuming he hits Wimbledon 2008 form.

not particularly important, but novaks form of ao 08 > murray ao 10. I mean he was a force of nature back than.

Clydey
02-02-2010, 07:49 AM
not particularly important, but novaks form of ao 08 > murray ao 10. I mean he was a force of nature back than.

I disagree. He was obviously playing some of his best tennis, but I wouldn't call him a force of nature.

Dini
02-02-2010, 08:13 AM
I think the difference between Djokovic and Murray at GS level is that one managed to beat Federer and the other didn't. Sure, to be fair Fed wasn't playing as well in the 08 AO semi as he was in the '10 AO final, but watching that 08 match I start to believe that Djokovic didn't really allow him to play his shots. Fed couldn't stay ahead for too long; sustained pressure from start to finish from Nole.

In my mind there's no doubt that Djokovic's AO 08 form > Murray's AO '10 form. But currently, I think it's a little different.

Djokovic seems fatigued and lacklustre at the latter stages of a slam. His fitness has improved massively though, but in the USO '09 semi final there just didn't seem to be enough gas in the tank to counteract the rise in Fed's level at the end of each set.

Sophocles
02-02-2010, 11:08 AM
also, djokovic has been better on clay than murray on grass.

Yes, so far.

jcempire
02-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Murray just miss it...... unluck

He got everything so far but except luck

Vida
02-02-2010, 11:35 AM
I think the difference between Djokovic and Murray at GS level is that one managed to beat Federer and the other didn't. Sure, to be fair Fed wasn't playing as well in the 08 AO semi as he was in the '10 AO final, but watching that 08 match I start to believe that Djokovic didn't really allow him to play his shots. Fed couldn't stay ahead for too long; sustained pressure from start to finish from Nole.

In my mind there's no doubt that Djokovic's AO 08 form > Murray's AO '10 form. But currently, I think it's a little different.

Djokovic seems fatigued and lacklustre at the latter stages of a slam. His fitness has improved massively though, but in the USO '09 semi final there just didn't seem to be enough gas in the tank to counteract the rise in Fed's level at the end of each set.

exactly. he pushed him on the backhand, took his chances, was very aggressive, he also served with confidence on big points and won. winners to errors ratio was positive, I think for both, surely for djokovic. and still it was a close match, closer than score indicates. fed was up a break in first and had he held, who knows what would've happened.

today, murray is in a way better form though, more solid, mentally has better attitude. I thought perhaps novak will do something in autralia, given how he played last seasons end, but as soon as I saw kooyong it was clear he was mentally not good. not sure he will ever regain form of two years back on hardcourts, I'm 'cautiously pessimistic' but we'll see.

prafull
02-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Only way one of them is winning a slam is when they are facing each other in the final.

Persimmon
02-02-2010, 02:45 PM
I think the difference between Djokovic and Murray at GS level is that one managed to beat Federer and the other didn't. Sure, to be fair Fed wasn't playing as well in the 08 AO semi as he was in the '10 AO final, but watching that 08 match I start to believe that Djokovic didn't really allow him to play his shots. Fed couldn't stay ahead for too long; sustained pressure from start to finish from Nole.

In my mind there's no doubt that Djokovic's AO 08 form > Murray's AO '10 form.



Agreed.

rocketassist
02-07-2010, 07:01 PM
I think the difference between Djokovic and Murray at GS level is that one managed to beat Federer and the other didn't. Sure, to be fair Fed wasn't playing as well in the 08 AO semi as he was in the '10 AO final, but watching that 08 match I start to believe that Djokovic didn't really allow him to play his shots. Fed couldn't stay ahead for too long; sustained pressure from start to finish from Nole.

In my mind there's no doubt that Djokovic's AO 08 form > Murray's AO '10 form. But currently, I think it's a little different.

Djokovic seems fatigued and lacklustre at the latter stages of a slam. His fitness has improved massively though, but in the USO '09 semi final there just didn't seem to be enough gas in the tank to counteract the rise in Fed's level at the end of each set.

Federer had mono, that's why he beat him.

mistercrabs
02-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Djokovic is suffering at the hands of Mother Earth for being a wanker. He will win a couple more slams but will be quickly forgotten. Murray on the other hand will win 11 slams, starting with the French Open 2010. I predict a mental switch a la Federer 2004, as well as a vastly improved performance on clay.

Vida
02-07-2010, 08:31 PM
Federer had mono, that's why he beat him.

:bs:

MIMIC
02-07-2010, 08:34 PM
I wonder who will be first to reach another final.

Arkulari
02-08-2010, 01:43 AM
:bs:

+1

Roger was sick, but managed to beat a lot of people before getting to an on-fire Nole, he had chances in that match but never took them and it wasn't due to disease but more frankly to Nole's good play

Nole hasn't been in that level for quite a long time, but I think more than his game, is his mentality that is lacking

I hate when people atribute losses to either injury, illness or tiredness, same happens with Rafa, he's good enough to give mugs a beatdown while injured but cannot get past good opponents in that fashion, wonder if that is due to them or to him :retard: