Topspin ≠ Defensive Rafa [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Topspin ≠ Defensive Rafa

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 05:22 AM
I've been reading on this board all kinds of BS about moonballs and moonballers, and how flat shots own moonballs, which is total BS.

Rafa has proved many times that when he's aggressive enough and doesn't play 1000 miles behind the baseline he can hit flat hitters off the court, like in the DAvy match 1st set, or he can easily overpower Djoko when he's confident enough, like 2 years ago at RG, he can even S&V effectively with topspin. (It's another matter that unfortunately he too often reverts to his passive, 1000 miles behind the baseline game)

Heavy topspin in many respects is better than flat shots, it's harder to handle, better angles, works on clay too, etc., etc., so I think it's annoying when some people identify topspin with a particular player, especially when he's playing bad.

FairWeatherFan
01-11-2010, 05:30 AM
(It's another matter that unfortunately he too often reverts to his passive, 1000 miles behind the baseline game)

Most people's issue with Nadal are with this and not with his topspin-based shots per se. Most players nowadays play with heavy topspin to some degree.

Action Jackson
01-11-2010, 05:31 AM
It's simple it depends on the situation. There are reasons that heavy hitters have done well against Nadal. It's common sense if they are on their game, the ball comes faster and flatter and takes away the time Nadal needs to impart the spin. He is fortunate that he isn't playing on any really fast surfaces.

Sometimes it's used defensively and other times not.

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 05:43 AM
It's common sense if they are on their game, the ball comes faster and flatter and takes away the time Nadal needs to impart the spin.

People overestimate the time needed to impart the spin, it's nothing if you take into consideration all of its advantages.


He is fortunate that he isn't playing on any really fast surfaces.

Sometimes it's used defensively and other times not.

But the point is, he can beat even Tsonga in Rotterdam or he can beat people on very fast surfaces when he isn't too defensive.

Action Jackson
01-11-2010, 05:50 AM
People overestimate the time needed to impart the spin, it's nothing if you take into consideration all of its advantages.



But the point is, he can beat even Tsonga in Rotterdam or he can beat people on very fast surfaces when he isn't too defensive.

If you think the surfaces are fast now, then you are having a laugh.

For consistently effective heavy topspin and the court takes the bounce that is makes it a viable play, then a player is going to need time and I don't care who it is.

Once they are rushed, then it's short balls without the effective spin and it becomes fodder at worst and Nadal goes on the defensive.

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 06:07 AM
Once they are rushed, then it's short balls without the effective spin and it becomes fodder at worst and Nadal goes on the defensive.

However, it has nothing to do with topspin. When the flat hits are rushed, they are weak and ineffective too.

It also depends on how skilled someone is at using topspin. Nadal too, even with backhand, when it seems like he got hit off the court and has no time at all, (and every flat hitter in the same situation would fail) can hit lightning fast (and long) topspin shots.

Too bad that many people don't notice that all the problems Nadal has are the result of bad strategy and not the "moonballs".

paseo
01-11-2010, 06:20 AM
I've been reading on this board all kinds of BS about moonballs and moonballers, and how flat shots own moonballs, which is total BS.

Rafa has proved many times that when he's aggressive enough and doesn't play 1000 miles behind the baseline he can hit flat hitters off the court, like in the DAvy match 1st set, or he can easily overpower Djoko when he's confident enough, like 2 years ago at RG, he can even S&V effectively with topspin. (It's another matter that unfortunately he too often reverts to his passive, 1000 miles behind the baseline game)

Heavy topspin in many respects is better than flat shots, it's harder to handle, better angles, works on clay too, etc., etc., so I think it's annoying when some people identify topspin with a particular player, especially when he's playing bad.

Nadal can destroy anyone on clay.

Topspin, underspin, flat, doesn't matter. If you hit them deep or with an extreme angle, it'll be an effective shot.

Action Jackson
01-11-2010, 06:33 AM
However, it has nothing to do with topspin. When the flat hits are rushed, they are weak and ineffective too.

It also depends on how skilled someone is at using topspin. Nadal too, even with backhand, when it seems like he got hit off the court and has no time at all, (and every flat hitter in the same situation would fail) can hit lightning fast (and long) topspin shots.

Too bad that many people don't notice that all the problems Nadal has are the result of bad strategy and not the "moonballs".

Missed the point again. Bigger swings have more potential to mistime their shots and on the forehand Nadal has a big swing to generate all that spin, but not on the backhand side. It's because his swing isn't as long on the backhand side that he can hit some fast passing shots on that side. Hence big hitters go to this forehand on fast surfaces to open up the backhand.

Nadal is skilled at topspin, in any sport cut down preparation time on the opponent then it's going to impact on them. Considering he has to flatten the ball out on faster surfaces to be better on his body and cut down match time. When he is confident he can do that at times, but when he gets pushed around, then he retreats back to his comfort zone. No different from any other player, they go to their comfort zone when it gets tough more often than not.

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 06:49 AM
on the forehand Nadal has a big swing to generate all that spin, but not on the backhand side.

Like he can't hit incredible passing shots with fh. He uses the bigger swing when he chooses to (or has time to), but he can be effective with smaller swing fhs too.

but when he gets pushed around, then he retreats back to his comfort zone. No different from any other player, they go to their comfort zone when it gets tough more often than not.

The exact opposite is true (of Nadal)!
THe recent Davy match is one of the proofs. He was playing outside of his comfort zone when he was playing aggressively, and he won the set 6-0. Then, without reason to change the aggressive tactics (and because he felt that he won the match already by Breaking Davi's spirit with the bagel) he comfily reverted to defense (his comfort zone) which caused him to lose the match.

Action Jackson
01-11-2010, 06:59 AM
Like he can't hit incredible passing shots with fh. He uses the bigger swing when he chooses to (or has time to), but he can be effective with smaller swing fhs too.

Are you so clouded that you can't see why Nadal struggles against certain players on hardcourts. He doesn't get to hit many passing shots on the FH because most players when they approach to the backhand. Is it really that hard to see his time gets taken away on the hardcourt and when it's done properly he gets exposed.



The exact opposite is true (of Nadal)!
THe recent Davy match is one of the proofs. He was playing outside of his comfort zone when he was playing aggressively, and he won the set 6-0. Then, without reason to change the aggressive tactics (and because he felt that he won the match already by Breaking Davi's spirit with the bagel) he comfily reverted to defense (his comfort zone) which caused him to lose the match.

Hahaha, you base it on one match and not since his senior career from 2003. Tsonga, Gonzalez, Berdych, Blake, Söderling,and Djokovic when they have beaten him on hardcourts outdoors and indoors they dominated the baseline and through their shotmaking were able to push him further and further behind the baseline and exposed his weaknesses which is much harder to do on the clay, because of that T word and Nadal's overall ability on the surfaces.

The way you make it out Nadal is a flat hard hitter and the matches are on his racquet alone, which is not the case, and not the case he just runs shit down either.

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 07:18 AM
Are you so clouded that you can't see why Nadal struggles against certain players on hardcourts. He doesn't get to hit many passing shots on the FH because most players when they approach to the backhand. Is it really that hard to see his time gets taken away on the hardcourt and when it's done properly he gets exposed.

Wow, good to see I'm clouded, at the same time, don't you notice that when the pressure is off him it's then that he reverts to defense, starts to get pushed around, and that's when the flat hitters can take his time away, otherwise, when he's aggressive, he's the one who takes away the flathitters' time.


Hahaha, you base it on one match and not since his senior career from 2003.

No. Also last season after he won the AO (mostly with aggressive game), he felt comfy and by the clay season he was back 1000 miles behind the baseline which cost him a lot.

It's a recurring pattern in Nadal's game (either in a match, season whatever) that when he thinks the pressure is off him he starts to play too defensively.

Hahaha

Action Jackson
01-11-2010, 07:35 AM
Wow, good to see I'm clouded, at the same time, don't you notice that when the pressure is off him it's then that he reverts to defense, starts to get pushed around, and that's when the flat hitters can take his time away, otherwise, when he's aggressive, he's the one who takes away the flathitters' time.

Well you are making out that Nadal is an all out aggressive player and it's not the case. Neither is he someone who just moonballs for the sake of it. In other words it depends on the situation, his defensive skills are outstanding and are always going to overshadow his other excellent qualities.

Yes, when David Ferrer schooled him at the US Open the pressure was off him and he kept getting pushed back further and further behind. Davydenko doesn't exactly have many problems with Nadal's speed of shot on hardcourts. If Nadal was so aggressive and never retreated from the baseline when he was getting beaten up by the mentioned players, then what was he doing in defensive positions.

No. Also last season after he won the AO (mostly with aggressive game), he felt comfy and by the clay season he was back 1000 miles behind the baseline which cost him a lot.

It's a recurring pattern in Nadal's game (either in a match, season whatever) that when he thinks the pressure is off him he starts to play too defensively.

Hahaha

Is it? Nadal on clay he is so far ahead of the field and paseo summed it up. The surface where he needs to be the most aggressive is the one he struggles on the most and it's obvious as to why certain players can beat him on hardcourts.

He was so aggressive at the London Masters Cup.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
01-11-2010, 07:37 AM
i'd just like to add to this topic that at his peak Federer's forehand had more top spin than Bruguera

NAdal's technique is very inefficient, you have to factor in the lefty advantage and during his prime he was very muscular, hit harder and had great speed and was natural on clay

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 07:52 AM
Well you are making out that Nadal is an all out aggressive player and it's not the case.

Nah, my point is that Nadal is awesome when he plays aggressively, but unfortunately he too often starts to play defensive clay court tennis in the worst possible moments / periods, etc.

RafitoGoat
01-11-2010, 08:33 AM
Rafito was standing ON the baseline throughout the 6-0 davey set, then after that he reverted back to way behind baseline, so his new aggressive tactics are working, but it isn't his instinct yet, that'll change :yeah:

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 04:11 PM
THe recent Davy match is one of the proofs. He was playing outside of his comfort zone when he was playing aggressively, and he won the set 6-0. Then, without reason to change the aggressive tactics (and because he felt that he won the match already by Breaking Davi's spirit with the bagel) he comfily reverted to defense (his comfort zone) which caused him to lose the match.
Rafito was standing ON the baseline throughout the 6-0 davey set, then after that he reverted back to way behind baseline, so his new aggressive tactics are working, but it isn't his instinct yet, that'll change :yeah:
Just wow. Look, the match didn't turn around because Nadal for no reason felt like going back to defending, but because Davydenko started playing a lot better. Davy's UEs became fewer, he produced more good length shots and Nadull was pushed back. -_-

Also, no, my big issue with Nadal is not that he uses big topspin. But I still don't like that kind of shotmaking. Because he so often plays it safe, the ball flying 2 meters above the net but landing at the service line. :o

Everko
01-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Also, no, my big issue with Nadal is not that he uses big topspin. But I still don't like that kind of shotmaking. Because he so often plays it safe, the ball flying 2 meters above the net but landing at the service line

So? It gets him victories. Not everyone has to play like you want in your fantasies at night.

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 04:26 PM
So? It gets him victories. Not everyone has to play like you want in your fantasies at night.:lol: I've said it before, you're so cute when you try be tough.

Everko
01-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Answer the question. Why does a player's style warrant hate?

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 04:36 PM
Just wow. Look, the match didn't turn around because Nadal for no reason felt like going back to defending, but because Davydenko started playing a lot better. Davy's UEs became fewer, he produced more good length shots and Nadull was pushed back. -_-

Davydenko wasn't doing anything at all, all he could do was shake his head left and right in disbelief. However, when Rafa got complacent with the first set and started to suck , Davy came to life. Davy admitted it himself, he said "Rafa lost his concentration". So the 2nd and 3rd set were not Davy's achievement, Davy himself admitted it.


Also, no, my big issue with Nadal is not that he uses big topspin. But I still don't like that kind of shotmaking. Because he so often plays it safe, the ball flying 2 meters above the net but landing at the service line. :o

Topspin is kind of an upgrade to flat shot, I listed a few of its advantages in the starting post, but there are many more, every noob starts hitting flat when he starts tennis, however, not everyone has the talent to be a master of topspin like Rafa.

Arkulari
01-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Davydenko wasn't doing anything at all, all he could do was shake his head left and right in disbelief. However, when Rafa got complacent with the first set and started to suck , Davy came to life. Davy admitted it himself, he said "Rafa lost his concentration". So the 2nd and 3rd set were not Davy's achievement, Davy himself admitted it.




Topspin is kind of an upgrade to flat shot, I listed a few of its advantages in the starting post, but there are many more, every noob starts hitting flat when he starts tennis, however, not everyone has the talent to be a master of topspin like Rafa.

don't try to dismiss Kolya's achievement, yes Rafa was killing him in the first set but it was Kolya's game and mental state what allowed him to win, see chokers like Almugro who can't take a MP from Rafa ever :rolleyes:

thing about topspin is that it plays right into the comfort zone of very tall players like Del Potro and is a liability in surfaces like decoturf against people who can hit really hard; it is a great shot, very consistent and reliable and serves really well in clay and grass but there's a reason why Rafa has never even been able to play a single final in decoturf and that's the fact that he doesn't flat his shots as much as other players do

RafitoGoat
01-11-2010, 04:57 PM
Rafito looked better in this Doha than he looked in last year's Doha!

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 05:00 PM
there's a reason why Rafa has never even been able to play a single final in decoturf

The reason for that is that by the time they start playing on decoturf Rafa is an exhausted and whining little bitch who should skip playing on decoturf instead of playing and whining.

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 05:04 PM
Answer the question. Why does a player's style warrant hate?You didn't even ask a question. :lol: And I thought it was obvious why I didn't like it: it's gutless and boring. Incidentally, I think it's more reasonable to hate a player because of his game than because he beat one's idol. :rolleyes:
Davydenko wasn't doing anything at all, all he could do was shake his head left and right in disbelief. However, when Rafa got complacent with the first set and started to suck , Davy came to life. Davy admitted it himself, he said "Rafa lost his concentration". So the 2nd and 3rd set were not Davy's achievement, Davy himself admitted it.

Topspin is kind of an upgrade to flat shot, I listed a few of its advantages in the starting post, but there are many more, every noob starts hitting flat when he starts tennis, however, not everyone has the talent to be a master of topspin like Rafa.:haha:

Yes, more Nadullstalkers is just what we needed here. :angel:

Everko
01-11-2010, 05:05 PM
Nadal gutless? Did you really say that Okra? :rolleyes:

Dougie
01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Topspin is kind of an upgrade to flat shot, I listed a few of its advantages in the starting post, but there are many more, every noob starts hitting flat when he starts tennis, however, not everyone has the talent to be a master of topspin like Rafa.

You can´t really be this stupid. Different shots work for different players in different situations. As already stated, a flat shot takes time off from Nadal causing his groundies to lose effectiveness. Why do you think he doesn´t lose to traditional clay courters on clay? Because they all hit with a lot of spin and Nadal does it better than anyone. It was no coincidence that it was someone like Söderling who eventually beat him. It was always going to be someone who takes the time off and doesn´t let him dictate the rallies.

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
Nadal gutless? Did you really say that Okra? :rolleyes:I said his game when he is playing defensively (as he usually does), is gutless. Yup.

Arkulari
01-11-2010, 05:09 PM
The reason for that is that by the time they start playing on decoturf Rafa is an exhausted and whining little bitch who should skip playing on decoturf instead of playing and whining.

whatever makes you sleep better at night ;)

Commander Data
01-11-2010, 05:19 PM
Rafito was standing ON the baseline throughout the 6-0 davey set, then after that he reverted back to way behind baseline, so his new aggressive tactics are working, but it isn't his instinct yet, that'll change :yeah:

Calendar Slam in the making again? :drink:

Isn't it funny how fanbodys are seriously believing their idol would be unbeatbale would he just play the way he is supposed to.

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 05:34 PM
You can´t really be this stupid. Different shots work for different players in different situations. As already stated, a flat shot takes time off from Nadal causing his groundies to lose effectiveness. Why do you think he doesn´t lose to traditional clay courters on clay? Because they all hit with a lot of spin and Nadal does it better than anyone. It was no coincidence that it was someone like Söderling who eventually beat him. It was always going to be someone who takes the time off and doesn´t let him dictate the rallies.


Actually, Nadal is owning the flat-hitters too on clay.

As for dictating rallies, what about MUrray, he's a flat hitter, but he's also pushed around like a mug by an aggressive player like Cilic, not because of what shots he uses, but because he chooses to play too defensively like a mug.

As for Söderling, he's not an elite player, he's slamless trash who took advantage of the fact that Nadal had been playing 50000 tourneys (many finals) before the RG while Söder was comfortably resting his slamless butt.

Nidhogg
01-11-2010, 05:50 PM
As for Söderling, he's not an elite player, he's slamless trash who took advantage of the fact that Nadal had been playing 50000 tourneys (many finals) before the RG while Söder was comfortably resting his slamless butt.

This is almost as good as the people who cried "who the fuck is Söderling and what has he ever done" when he took a dig at Nadal's timewasting during Wimby 07.

Go ahead and blame Nadal for his moronic schedule all you want, but commend Söderling for taking out the trash then.

Topspin Forehand
01-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Nothing wrong with playing defensive either. But I agree that Nadal can be aggressive and attack. Especially on a high bouncing surface where the balls are in his comfort zone more. Yes Nadal likes the ball up high more than most. The movement is also more comfortable on clay for him.

Dougie
01-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Actually, Nadal is owning the flat-hitters too on clay.

As for dictating rallies, what about MUrray, he's a flat hitter, but he's also pushed around like a mug by an aggressive player like Cilic, not because of what shots he uses, but because he chooses to play too defensively like a mug.

As for Söderling, he's not an elite player, he's slamless trash who took advantage of the fact that Nadal had been playing 50000 tourneys (many finals) before the RG while Söder was comfortably resting his slamless butt.



Yes, because he´s the best player on clay. But when he loses, it´s most likely to someone with relatively flat groundstrokes.

I never said flat shots do it on their own. If Murray knew how to beat Nadal I would have used him as an example. I never said every flat hitter beats Nadal, I said flat groundies cause him more trouble than someone who uses a lot of spin.

As for your comment on Söderling...:rolleyes:

Bobby
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
You go Nekromanta, you're a man on a mission here. Don't let them get to you! Wow! Heavy topspin is as delicious as a Safeway chocolate chip muffin.

madmax
01-11-2010, 06:35 PM
I wonder which hole are all these Nadulltards suddenly crawling from? All it takes is a few wins against complete mugs and exho title for them to preach on mighty moonballer's altar...And yes, he is a defensive moonballer - always was, always will be, thats his game and his approach, being aggresive is not natural to him

Nekromanta
01-11-2010, 07:04 PM
I wonder which hole are all these Nadulltards suddenly crawling from? All it takes is a few wins against complete mugs and exho title for them to preach on mighty moonballer's altar...And yes, he is a defensive moonballer - always was, always will be, thats his game and his approach, being aggresive is not natural to him


Still, he's good enough to have 6 slams, to beat the flathitter at the olympics, to own most of the flat-hitters out there and to have a winning H2H against the "GOAT".

"Nadulltard" "clouded", "stupid", "hahaha", "[/insert childish retarded smiley here]", "moonballer". - Is there a course I can participate in where I can learn this stuff?

joca123
01-11-2010, 07:37 PM
It was no coincidence that it was someone like Söderling who eventually beat him. It was always going to be someone who takes the time off and doesn´t let him dictate the rallies.

Why didn't Soderling do that one month earlier, during Rome? (6-1, 6-0).

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 07:38 PM
As for dictating rallies, what about MUrray, he's a flat hitter, but he's also pushed around like a mug by an aggressive player like Cilic, not because of what shots he uses, but because he chooses to play too defensively like a mug.Yep. Same as Nadull.
As for Söderling, he's not an elite player, he's slamless trash who took advantage of the fact that Nadal had been playing 50000 tourneys (many finals) before the RG while Söder was comfortably resting his slamless butt.:haha:
Bitter nadulltards don't even realize that by bashing Soderking they are also insulting their moonballing idol since the result was the same in the WTF.
"Nadulltard" "clouded", "stupid", "hahaha", "[/insert childish retarded smiley here]", "moonballer". - Is there a course I can participate in where I can learn this stuff?You haven't said one sensible thing yet, so why are you acting so smug?

Orka_n
01-11-2010, 07:48 PM
Why didn't Soderling do that one month earlier, during Rome? (6-1, 6-0).Firstly, how is that even relevant? If you had watched their RG match you would've seen that the far better player won.
Secondly, the set score in Rome is misleading. First set was very tough as I recall it but Nadull could make use of his break points at the end while Soderling couldn't. Then Soderling lost his head in the second and threw away the match as he always used to do before his RG09 run.

Commander Data
01-11-2010, 08:24 PM
Popcorn time!

born_on_clay
01-11-2010, 09:00 PM
The discussion turns once again into a fight between Rafahaters and Rafatards...

SaFed2005
01-11-2010, 11:01 PM
Topspin is kind of an upgrade to flat shot, I listed a few of its advantages in the starting post, but there are many more, every noob starts hitting flat when he starts tennis, however, not everyone has the talent to be a master of topspin like Rafa.

I am a noob. I know how to hit pretty well with topspin shots but I can't really hit flat shots at all. Makes me wonder if you ever actually held a racket and played tennis in your life. :devil:

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 12:10 AM
I am a noob. I know how to hit pretty well with topspin shots but I can't really hit flat shots at all. Makes me wonder if you ever actually held a racket and played tennis in your life. :devil:

Try playing someone other than your granpa and you'll realize you can hit neither flat nor topspin.

@Orka n. Who is the slamless trash on your ava? :haha: hahaha omgz :devil: :wavey:

Arkulari
01-12-2010, 12:14 AM
a RafaTard was banned not long ago, someone who registered a while ago but never posted starts a new trend of RafaTardism and lots of RafaHaters took the bait... :scratch:

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 12:21 AM
a RafaTard was banned not long ago, someone who registered a while ago but never posted starts a new trend of RafaTardism and lots of RafaHaters took the bait... :scratch:

Duder, I'm not a "Rafatard", I'm aware RAfa has many weaknesses, all I did was make an observation about topspin, it's not my fault some of the nolifers started the hate in this thread.

Action Jackson
01-12-2010, 01:23 AM
a RafaTard was banned not long ago, someone who registered a while ago but never posted starts a new trend of RafaTardism and lots of RafaHaters took the bait... :scratch:

Start da Game is smarter.

Arkulari
01-12-2010, 03:34 AM
Start da Game is smarter.


you're right, Shankar is smarter than that ;)

then it's just a double account of somebody else :yeah:

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 04:15 AM
you're right, Shankar is smarter than that ;)

then it's just a double account of somebody else :yeah:

Ya, he's smarter 'cause he accepts MTF's consensus reality where flatshots are the shit, where Ljubicic is a legend, where no slam guy Söderling is a king, thanks but I want none of that schizophrenic vision.

BTW I'm not a double account of anyone else from this board, that's for the 12 year old smiley kiddies here.

Sunset of Age
01-12-2010, 04:25 AM
Ya, he's smarter 'cause he accepts MTF's consensus reality where flatshots are the shit, where Ljubicic is a legend, where no slam guy Söderling is a king, thanks but I want none of that schizophrenic vision.

BTW I'm not a double account of anyone else from this board, that's for the 12 year old smiley kiddies here.

If not, you're a major troll. :help:

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
01-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Answer the question. Why does a player's style warrant hate?

If this makes me a fanboy then so be it

a player's style can warrant hate

certainly if the player is a pusher (simon, murray)

nadal doesnt need to be a pusher, his game allows for attacking play- he's just in his comfort zone when he's moonballing

thats probably why i dont like him as much as i would if he played more agressive

players i'm a huge fan of

Gasquet
Nalbandian
Blake
Federer

stebs
01-12-2010, 02:24 PM
The idea that topspin can be simplified into an evolved version of flat hitting is ridiculous with no basis in fact. To simplify shots rather than point out that they each have advantages and disadvantages shows lack opf any understanding.

Discussing which shots are better in which situations and tactical discussions of that kind at least mean nsomething. To say topspin is just advanced flat is like asking why players don't smash every time when that is usually a winning shot.

The answer is simple, some players master some shots, some players master other shots, and the best players master a range of shots or learn to cover their weaknesses with their strengths. If you can't accept this then you are a mug of the highest order.

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 04:26 PM
The idea that topspin can be simplified into an evolved version of flat hitting is ridiculous with no basis in fact. To simplify shots rather than point out that they each have advantages and disadvantages shows lack opf any understanding..

Everyone knows the advantages of flat shots, an ideal player should be pro at every kind of shot, the only reason I opened this thread is that, unlike on any other sports board, some blindfolded people here look on heavy topspin as something that's inferior to flat shots. And they're screaming moonballer and moonballing mug every 5 seconds. Which I find really unusual to normal behaviour.


Discussing which shots are better in which situations.

Good idea. For example when you have to play in strong wind, topspin is clearly much better.

Actually, flat shots are like fart in the wind (Look at Murray last year against Nadal).

So flat shots in the wind = farts in the wind.

Flat hitter = fart hitter

So, based on how topspin players are called moonballers here , we should start calling players who use flat shots only farthitters or fartballers.

Proper usage: "Söderling, that hapless no-slam fartballing termite".

barbadosan
01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
So, based on how topspin players are called moonballers here , we should start calling players who use flat shots only farthitters or fartballers.

Proper usage: "Söderling, that hapless no-slam fartballing termite".

Your forgot to add: "who beat Nadal in R16 of RG 2009"

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 04:39 PM
Your forgot to add: "who beat Nadal in R16 of RG 2009"

Why do you want other posters to give credit to Söderling for that match? Everyone knows by that time Nadal was dead tired because of all the tourneys and finals.

You want me to give credit to Fish too for beating Federer? And call him "Fishking" and make ridiculous avatars with Fish with a crown on his head? I won't do that either , because Fed was playing shittily in that period. So I won't give credit where no credit's due, I won't do that favour, sorry buddy.

barbadosan
01-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Why do you want other posters to give credit to Söderling for that match? Everyone knows by that time Nadal was dead tired because of all the tourneys and finals.
You want me to give credit to Fish too for beating Federer? And call him "Fishking" and make ridiculous avatars with Fish with a crown on his head? I won't do that either , because Fed was playing shittily in that period. So I won't give credit where no credit's due, I won't do that favour, sorry buddy.

Yeh.. ask Hewitt how dead tired he was! And wasn't it Nadal who said he played the same way as at all the other RGs and won, but this time he lost. You should watch the press conference again -- unless of course, you're going to call him a liar

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Yeh.. ask Hewitt how dead tired he was! And wasn't it Nadal who said he played the same way as at all the other RGs and won, but this time he lost. You should watch the press conference again -- unless of course, you're going to call him a liar

If he had admitted how wasted he had been, everyone would have started to talk about how arrogant this Nadal is, and sore loser, and blablabla. So, technically, he's a liar, all of them lie to some extent in these press conferences. However, in this case it was just a form of modesty (even if fake) on the part of NAdal.

Orka_n
01-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Why do you want other posters to give credit to Söderling for that match? Everyone knows by that time Nadal was dead tired because of all the tourneys and finals.

You want me to give credit to Fish too for beating Federer? And call him "Fishking" and make ridiculous avatars with Fish with a crown on his head? I won't do that either , because Fed was playing shittily in that period. So I won't give credit where no credit's due, I won't do that favour, sorry buddy.So, if the loser plays bad, the winner doesn't deserve credit? This is ridiculous.
And every Nadulltard seem to think that Nadull can't lose if he's not injured or tired. Truly pathetic stuff. If he's injured, then he shouldn't take the court. If he's tired, who's fault is that? Stop bullshitting that the opponent didn't deserve to win, just because moonballer has a retarded schedule.
If he had admitted how wasted he had been, everyone would have started to talk about how arrogant this Nadal is, and sore loser, and blablabla. So, technically, he's a liar, all of them lie to some extent in these press conferences. However, in this case it was just a form of modesty (even if fake) on the part of NAdal.:lol:
Reminder: He also lost at WTF. No, right. It doesn't count because Nadull wasn't at his peak. :banghead:
Everyone knows the advantages of flat shots, an ideal player should be pro at every kind of shot, the only reason I opened this thread is that, unlike on any other sports board, some blindfolded people here look on heavy topspin as something that's inferior to flat shots. And they're screaming moonballer and moonballing mug every 5 seconds. Which I find really unusual to normal behaviour.

Good idea. For example when you have to play in strong wind, topspin is clearly much better.

Actually, flat shots are like fart in the wind (Look at Murray last year against Nadal).

So flat shots in the wind = farts in the wind.

Flat hitter = fart hitter

So, based on how topspin players are called moonballers here , we should start calling players who use flat shots only farthitters or fartballers.

Proper usage: "Söderling, that hapless no-slam fartballing termite".You're making a fool of yourself... but you don't even realize that. It's this blindness that I find most annoying about the Rafatards.

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 05:58 PM
It's this blindness that I find most annoying about the Rafatards.

As for blindness, the blind Rafa-haters are the blindest of all, who don't really support any player, therefore everything is cheap for them, and who never gave a damn about Söder before RG last year but now in their blind Rafa hate all of a sudden they all put the fartballer no-slam scavenger Söderling on their ava. Get a Spine Orka n dude.

barbadosan
01-12-2010, 06:35 PM
As for blindness, the blind Rafa-haters are the blindest of all, who don't really support any player, therefore everything is cheap for them, and who never gave a damn about Söder before RG last year but now in their blind Rafa hate all of a sudden they all put the fartballer no-slam scavenger Söderling on their ava. Get a Spine Orka n dude.

Wow. That sure sounds like blind hatred on the part of someone! (And all of it spilling out in the space of just 18 posts.. amazing.

Nekromanta
01-12-2010, 06:43 PM
Wow. That sure sounds like blind hatred on the part of someone!

Actually, I have no prob with Söder whatsoever, but that's how they're talking about Rafa all the time so wtf.

elessar
01-12-2010, 06:46 PM
Proper usage: "Söderling, that hapless no-slam fartballing termite".
OMG.

Orka_n
01-12-2010, 07:00 PM
As for blindness, the blind Rafa-haters are the blindest of all, who don't really support any player, therefore everything is cheap for them, and who never gave a damn about Söder before RG last year but now in their blind Rafa hate all of a sudden they all put the fartballer no-slam scavenger Söderling on their ava. Get a Spine Orka n dude.I'm a swede, so actually I... nah, never mind. You don't listen anyway. I'm done here.
Later :wavey: