Serious Question about Australian Tennis [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Serious Question about Australian Tennis

stzenit
08-16-2009, 07:59 AM
Ok so we all know Australia has produced many good tennis players in the past.

However lets forget the eras where 4-5 countries played tennis. What has happened to Australian tennis?

Currently there are 2 players in the Top 100. 28 year old Hewitt and 29 Year old Luczak(broke top 100 last week).

The Woman are basically in the same situation(but this is MTF)

I know that Tomic is a huge prospect for Australia but we don't know yet if he will burn out,pressure get to him,injuries,stall in his development. To early to call.

When viewing Junior Grand Slams etc even in the past you would see Australians reaching the final 8 etc and then completely falling of the radar once the transition is made to professional.

So what happens? Is the Australian tennis development system to outdated?(Which i believe it is) Would it be better for a young good 14-16 Year old Junior to continue his development somewhere like Europe?

Also since the majority of Australian junior tennis players come from rich families is it because of that they lack in hunger? We experienced something like this in Russia as well since 2000-2009 rapid increase in standard of living and the next generation might be somewhat more spoilt with better life and lack hunger.
Safin once said "If you experience a $hit life you want to make sure you never experience it again" I guess many players now are playing for there lives survival which is where the hunger is lacking for Australians?

What are you're thoughts? What needs to be changed to Australian tennis to create Grand Slam winners once more?

:)

Matchu
08-25-2009, 05:11 AM
However lets forget the eras where 4-5 countries played tennis. What has happened to Australian tennis?

Lleyton Hewitt, Mark Philippoussis and Pat Rafter all being inside the top 15 in 2000 made us think we didn't need to put much effort into producing players.

Currently there are 2 players in the Top 100. 28 year old Hewitt and 29 Year old Luczak(broke top 100 last week).

Yep, was basically only Hewitt since 2005. This is actually one of our better years recently.

I know that Tomic is a huge prospect for Australia but we don't know yet if he will burn out,pressure get to him,injuries,stall in his development. To early to call.

When viewing Junior Grand Slams etc even in the past you would see Australians reaching the final 8 etc and then completely falling of the radar once the transition is made to professional.

Yeah, this is evident in Todd Reid who was a massive prospect that won junior Wimbledon but couldn't handle the pro tour.

So what happens? Is the Australian tennis development system to outdated?(Which i believe it is) Would it be better for a young good 14-16 Year old Junior to continue his development somewhere like Europe?

The system was refined just recently so players like Tomic, Verryth, Klein, Jones, Kubler etc. will have a good developement system in place. Last year Tennis Australia bought a training facility in Spain and appointed Felix Mantilla as a coach so they are obviously trying to doing something about the different climate in europe and the dreaded clay court season.

Also since the majority of Australian junior tennis players come from rich families is it because of that they lack in hunger? We experienced something like this in Russia as well since 2000-2009 rapid increase in standard of living and the next generation might be somewhat more spoilt with better life and lack hunger.
Safin once said "If you experience a $hit life you want to make sure you never experience it again" I guess many players now are playing for there lives survival which is where the hunger is lacking for Australians?

Yeah the hunger has to be there. Seeing as there are a lot of ex Eastern Europeans who moved to Australia during the 90s these players seem to be more hungry than the average Australian. Bernard Tomic's family moved to Australia with hardly any money so I'm sure Bernard is aware of the struggle.

What are you're thoughts? What needs to be changed to Australian tennis to create Grand Slam winners once more?

Geographically speaking we can't continue to keep our kids in Australia because the competition is just not there anymore. We need to send them on camps to Europe and play against the best players in there age groups, which I'm happy to say Tennis Australia is doing. So just wait 5-7 years and we'll be back up there again I'm sure.

jmf07
08-25-2009, 05:53 AM
Yeah most of the reasons have been covered. Another one is the competition from other sports. Alot of the talented athletes who have to decide between tennis and one of the football codes will 99% of the time go with football. If Gooch was tall when he was young and knew how to kick a football I doubt that he would be playing tennis. I think a few years ago there was a rumour that Hewitt wanted to quit tennis to pursue an AFL career.

Also it is hard to have access to a good cheap tennis court. For instance where I live you have the option of going to the local clubs where you are looking at around $15 for an hour, going to the free school court which is pretty decent but alot of the time people are already there or you have the coach who basically takes over the court if your playing there even though he has no contract or anything with the school and doesnt contribute to the maintenance of it or anything. If you are desperate you can go to the rundown court with a broken net and a road like playing surface. The price for getting a tennis court may not seem much but it starts to add up if you want to play regularly. I think this is a problem in alot of countries though and not just Australia.

OZTENNIS
10-24-2009, 04:21 AM
I think that a lot of the coaches invovled in the sport at the grassroots level are in it for all the wrong reasons. They are happy to take people's money and have a hit with the kids, but they aren't all that willing to attend coaching courses to improve their knowledge and skills and keep up to date with changes from overseas. So they get stuck in a rot without the need or desire to improve.

Also, tennis isn't played in schools (or it is, but very rarely) because it is seen as dangerous plus teachers rarely (if ever) have proper coaching qualifications.

These two things need to be addressed for tennis to be grown and improved at the ground level.

There is no real 'regional' level either. You are either good enough to go from local coaching to state coaching. Regional coaches should be employed to bring together the best kids in different age groups and let them all work together. The better ones could then be fed into state programs with better coaches than the ones employed at present. A lot of state level coaches are simply people who gave tennis a crack and found out they were no good, so they had to do something else. This doesn't make them a bad coach, but it does have limits on their foresight and international experience.

There are some coaches at a state level that are adequate however. Of all the National Academies, the Melbourne one would have the best coaching staff IMO.

And from the National Academies, players are fed into the AIS. Unfortunately, the AIS is more of a who-knows-who collaboration than a 'best of the lot' group. There are some good and promising players in the program and then there are those who only got in because their parents know so and so. Ridiculous.

Still, TA has done well to bring back Ray Ruffels and secure Todd Woodbridge and Nicole Pratt as national coaches. Time will tell if the TA reshuffles prove to be successful.

Personally however, when I have kids I will either coach them myself or, if you have the money, go overseas to France or the US and get coaching over there.

ace ventura
10-24-2009, 08:03 AM
Every time i hear the excuse that our players are not hungry as many are from rich families I want to laugh. Nothing could be further from the truth,
ok so lets also ask, is the current top players from poor families, maybe some research on Murray, Fed, Nadal, and so on and lets see if they are all from poor "hungry families "

Look at France for example, club tennis is thriving , having been there you can walk into any club and be welcome, get a great hit or even match play. This is what our national academies do not provide, the red tape just to get into them is a mile long and as some one pointed out before often a who knows who situation, you know who coaches who, whos brother works in the system and so on. The other problems are that as we have divided the best players into five different states, and also the AIS as well, where does the match play come from, having spoken to many people there is very little match play going on and if so you play the same two or three players for years.

The next big problem is the new youth policy, only a few years ago the 14, 15 16 year olds were deemed to young for AIS, now that very group has again been over looked for the younger players now deemed to old, right here TA have missed the catchment of a very strong group, while it seems they have been experimenting with what works and wat doesnt. One thing that seem to be clear is we have won 7 Junior davis cups, one recently but which players if any have gone on. Here lies the problem the constant turn over of players and the lack of sticking with anyone long term.

Each year the new names are belted out of who are going to be our next champions, look through TA mags or their website and you can see just how wrong they get this, as just as some one slips back or is not the next champion they dump them and move to the new younger group.

I ask if TA are so desperate to get players to the top 100 , why are they working with 14, 15, and 16 year olds who are not as strong phyiscally as the 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 year olds who are ready to have a crack against the men. How can it be ok to wait another 5 -7 years and overlook a few age groups right there and dump everything once again into the youngsters.

Surely we have heard all the names no different to the ones they are touting now... I would have thought TA would have noticed by now it is the age group ready to transition that also deserves some serious attention. I cant help but feel it is much easier for them to sit back and say oh yeah another 5 years, and work with the youth, therefore many jobs are secure on the back of this pathway within the system.

Why is the players continually turned over and not deemed good enough yet coaches can sit in the system for years....

Yes Kubler and Saville are wonderful players, but so were the last lot they touted, oh and if they keep choosing three out of the juniors this is where again they go wrong.
it is not like we have he population in the first place to give so much to so few, surely a wider net, more equality on training and development opportunities would assure that this next lot may not again be forgotten like the last.

If Pollard stays in for even one more year, if there is no change to a current narrow minded system then this country in my view is doomed when it comes to tennis. The next election could be the most serious turning point in Australian Tennis ever. You can only hope those voting really look past the pages of the TA website and have experienced
this sport from the majority of players/families point of view.

If the current system stays in place , we will not have the chance of players transitioning for years, if at all.
Seriously how can TA keep sitting back and riding on junior davis cup players and so few players with good junior results year after year, where has that ever got us, and it is ignorant and rude in the face of the talent we already have needing the help to make there next step , in the very same way
they are supporting the young ones now.

This is more about the players not from rich families who are hungry but the fact TA , ignore that when spending funding and energy on so very few.

Tenys4ever
10-24-2009, 11:06 PM
You have hit the nail on the head Ace Ventura.

When will TA wake up - they are not accountable and they are giving themselves another five or six years to be accountable. But maybe then they will change the goalposts again as they are always doing!

There is a group of boys trying to get through now! Most of the boys who are overseas at the moment have had little or no support from TA/AIS. The parents have funded and tried to find the best opportunities for them. If any of those boys ever makes it through i certainly hope that TA is strung out to dry in the press. THere wouldn't be too many who could say that they have had any assistance.

Look at the European countries, great groups of players making transitions - all on a level peg - not a few singled out for preferential treatment.

Tomic is a case in point - how infuriating to see John Tomic ask for even MORE than what TA are already giving Bernard. Perhaps a small fraction could be spread among a few more. THe parents here follow the rules trying desperately to get some financial assistance but because Tomic is now our great hope it is all slavishly laid out for him - now we have Woodbridge even on the bandwagon. And it doesn't seem to matter that the father gets more press than the kid - for his outrageous behaviour - indeed he gets rewarded!

God help Australian Tennis!

ace ventura
10-25-2009, 09:04 PM
Yes,

the current development system over the past four years have only heavily relied on a hand full of players, Tomic does not train in the AIS the pinnacle elite program not do those such as Kubler, Saville they have hopes for. therefore who can they say this "pathway " is working.
The fact this pathway is strangled with youth policies , and forever counting on four / five years time , means it is not working nor is the current system accountable for the four five years they have already had.
We have a system that hangs it hat continuously on junior results, junior davis cup, and look at our current status in the mens top 100.
The current system, " player pathway " has proven to be flippant, hypocritical and ever changing.....
Thus for a handful of junior players meant to be saving them.... For the majority of players and especially those over the age of 18 there is no player pathway , which prves they have no serious intention of producing top 100 ATP players.
The fact the mens open play off list , last year , chose to ignore mens ATP ranking , and disrespect the work and money of players to achieve that also proves so.

ace ventura
10-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Pollard survives , but will Mens Australian Tennis ?

Interesting to see our standings this time next year in the ATP top 100.

ace ventura
10-26-2009, 11:08 AM
The State of Australian Tennis ?

Out of Five National Coaches Total , 3 currently traveling overseas for a few weeks , with a group of only 5 players out of our whole country........... all aged under 16.

Tenys4ever
10-26-2009, 12:37 PM
Hey ace

I think it was 2 national coaches and 1 TA coach - but yeah three coaches for 5 players - not a bad wicket if you can get it! And for the rest of the players they have left 3 national coaches - go figure...

ace ventura
10-27-2009, 09:32 PM
what I would love to know is if TA think their pathway and AIS is so good why isnt Tomic in there. They are even happy to go as far as sorting tomics rifts all over the place,
organize his every need so why isnt he training full time with their coaches in their pinnacle program .

Good leyton has the sense to come out and say they are not looking after senior players, maybe they may now notice that themselves and help also the players over 18.
Gee that would be so broad minded if they could do so.

Audacity
10-28-2009, 05:48 AM
Australia recently won the Junior Davis Cup for the second time in the last 3 years, didn't they? The juniors have promise atleast, but as we all know - it has happened before and they aren't able to make that transition into the senior ranks. TA doesn't look after their senior players, very true - and needs a change. The head guys of TA have been talking themselves up for years - apparently it would take them 5 years to sort things out. We are still in the same situation as we were.

ace ventura
10-28-2009, 11:17 AM
Yep, well it will take them a lot longer than five years if they treat this lot like the ones over the past five years.

I find it amazing when I read in a paper the other day that the new davis cup says he is irritated when people criticise the development programs, if he had walked the pathway of the players in the past few years he would actually know many people I seem to talk to in this country are not irritated like him ,,,,,,but are but infuriated, and irate about the state of development.
The list of casualties in this sport of great talented juniors is very long, due to a revolving door of coaches and players, no long term foresight, kids having coaches ripped away from them sometimes just because their coach does not work in the system , or even when in the system because results fall they move the coach or player up, down ,side ways ,,,, and often simply because the ever changing " player pathway " doesnt map that way. The way in what might actually be best for the individual. !!

The problem with Australian Tennis is the amount of control they have just because they have the money, I think it is greed, and the politics that is causing untold damage to local clubs and many players.. We are actually in a worse state now than I can remember, at least five years ago we had four players in the top 100, last year it was none I think now it is two.
Thank goodness for the likes of Hewitt, speaking up and that we have the guts of players like looch, Marinko, Gooch , lindahl , feeney, ball and others having ago at the tough end, who are all at least........ at against all odds of much help are still having a real crack . I respect that .

Some federations are smart , they have a funding charted on atp ranking for the older players. This must provide the players with incentive and also is very transparent and fair to everyone.
How simple and smart ...

I hope this next lot make it but I cant see it happening unless there are people willing to stand up and speak the truth about their experiences, or even more so that TA listen.

Tenys4ever
10-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Good on Lleyton for coming out and standing up for the dreams of the forgotten kids out there struggling to try and make it on the tour without any assistance from TA. It would seem that some of the old guard realise that their are major issues with the administration of TA - at least if TA admitted there were issues it would at least show that they were willing to try and fix some of the problems. But they keep denying there are any problems - even though are Top 100 results are dismal.

I agree with Lleytons view of junior results "that they mean stuff all" - as you only have to look at the long list of junior champs to see that in the long run it doesn't mean much. So much more reason to share the support and funding around many not just a few. Even Rafter has come out and said as much.

I was looking at an article today dated 2006 by Jason Stoltenberg - here's the link: how sad that what he said way back then and pretty well come to pass

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/12/23/1166290791299.html

"Stolts serves it up
December 24, 2006


Former Tennis Australia coach Jason Stoltenberg is disillusioned and concerned for the future of youngsters in the academy's programs.

He is disappointed and disillusioned, concerned for the future of the youngsters in Tennis Australia's programs and worried that the measures being implemented to produce Australia's next champion are doomed. He has lost respect for some he once admired and doubts that some key members of the regime that swept into Tennis Australia 18 months ago understand what it takes to reach the elite level.

"I approached (development) like I was preparing kids for the tour and they approached it like they were preparing them for college," said Stoltenberg, a little pointedly, considering that director of player development Craig Tiley was recruited from the University of Illinois.

"The uncomfortable thing for them was that I was not prepared to compromise my beliefs and knowledge on what it takes to succeed on the tour. I wasn't prepared to just lie down for the sake of keeping the job. I stood up for what I believed in and, quite simply, for what was initially agreed to.

"There were a lot of promises made to people — me included — just to get them on board. Once on board and it came to fulfilling those promises there were all sorts of excuses. Over time it became ridiculous that it could happen so often."

Stoltenberg said there were no issues with travel or administration. "I went in there because I believed we were going to be training like professionals, that we were going to put kids on the tour with the real chance to succeed," he said. "To create a buzz. Once it seemed that they were not committed to excellence, which was early on, I became very concerned for the players and the direction of Australian tennis."

"I don't know if the key people in development actually understand what it takes these days to become a player," Stoltenberg says.

"We do have a lot of good people in TA who just want clear direction and to be inspired to work. Personally I was exposed to major shifts in policy and direction almost weekly. Even to this day I hear things that contradict what I was sold when I took the position."



Amazing that article was 2006! How right he was!

ace ventura
10-28-2009, 12:47 PM
what I dont get is why they say five year sor even out a time,, unless they are only talking about " their players "
Or Pick a number any number ...

This is only discrediting players out there who may have the belief or their coaches belief they could make it sooner or later.

It is so easy to come out because you are paid to say everything at work is ok.

I belive we have a heap of good players who with the RIGHT support could make it , and if TA dont believe and want to put limits on people or their programs to get it together , I say why should any one wait for them.

ace ventura
11-08-2009, 08:59 AM
Good points Raul.

And your english is fine ..... I too love those players Rafter Edberg Cash , Henman etc etc, so exciting to watch.
I totally agree people get way to caught up in fashion,,,, and yeah thats a big mistake.. there is a great Australian game being lost on so many levels.....

Action Jackson
11-08-2009, 09:02 AM
Very hard to play serve/volley tennis these days.

ace ventura
11-08-2009, 09:58 AM
Very hard to play serve/volley tennis these days.

Why so hard to play these days ?

Seen Fed do it pretty well, Tsonga, Roddick also adding it to his game, Leyton does well when moves forward, heaps of players do well out if it when they do it well enough.

Rafter did ok against the " power " of the Pooh, Agassi, and others who didnt exactly push the ball around !!

If you ask me it will get harder to play the game these days .... with out it.

Climate change ?

Short points will become even more important to play. These days.

petar_pan
11-08-2009, 11:31 AM
Why so hard to play these days ?

Seen Fed do it pretty well, Tsonga, Roddick also adding it to his game, Leyton does well when moves forward, heaps of players do well out if it when they do it well enough.

Rafter did ok against the " power " of the Pooh, Agassi, and others who didnt exactly push the ball around !!

If you ask me it will get harder to play the game these days .... with out it.

Climate change ?

Short points will become even more important to play. These days.

when i see ivanisevic's matches and his volleys and after that cilic's matches and his volleys i really have headache.
can goran help that guy!? that volleys of cilic, i mean really....

Matchu
11-08-2009, 12:03 PM
Why so hard to play these days ?

Seen Fed do it pretty well, Tsonga, Roddick also adding it to his game, Leyton does well when moves forward, heaps of players do well out if it when they do it well enough.

Rafter did ok against the " power " of the Pooh, Agassi, and others who didnt exactly push the ball around !!

If you ask me it will get harder to play the game these days .... with out it.

Climate change ?

Short points will become even more important to play. These days.

There are two conflicting factors here. It is no secret that all the surfaces in the world are getting slower. Wimbledon can now be won be a clay court specialist who barely comes to the net at all.

As for Australians, our home grand slam is the slowest excluding the French, so wouldn't it make sense that we should be trying to teach games which aren't heavily reliant on a one two punch serve volley that a lot of the time, in this day and age, will get passed on the return. After all success at the Australian Open is where we are going to get participation numbers up, if an aussie does well at the Australian Open more people will take up tennis.

Not to say we should steer away from it, just we can't actually rely on it anymore. The other factor is like ventura said climate change. Here in Australia it is getting hotter and hotter every summer, it will continue like this for a while and until tennis in Australia or tennis globally becomes indoor (which I think it will eventually have to) then fitness levels have to be at an unbelivably high level to maintain the high standard of play over 5 sets in that sort of heat.

Basically looking into the future theres no way Australians could possibly solely base their game in a serve and volley approach, they have to be strong baseliners that are extremely fit. Luckily Bernard Tomic, Jason Kubler and Luke Saville all play this sort of game.

jmf07
11-08-2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah Australia cant rely on producing serve and volleyers anymore unfortunately. Perhaps the best serve and volleyers can still carve out a career in the future given that there will be a few players who wont know what to do against a guy who serve and volleys but you wont be winning grand slams.

Why is it that Australia has hardly any indoor courts?

ace ventura
11-08-2009, 08:36 PM
Cant see the world filling up with indoors courts to soon, and to stay back all day is going to take its toll on even the body of even the firest of guys, look at nadal, for longevity in this game you will need to be able to get forward and stay back, like the likes of sampras, fed etc,
you need the full kit in your bag, if want to be able to hang around these days...

Aus has a few indoor courts but not enough thats for sure. Too busy painting them all blue and yeah slowing them down.

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 12:43 AM
Why so hard to play these days ?

Seen Fed do it pretty well, Tsonga, Roddick also adding it to his game, Leyton does well when moves forward, heaps of players do well out if it when they do it well enough.

Rafter did ok against the " power " of the Pooh, Agassi, and others who didnt exactly push the ball around !!

If you ask me it will get harder to play the game these days .... with out it.

Climate change ?

Short points will become even more important to play. These days.

If you followed tennis for a number of years, then there is no need for me to explain it. Lets say it has something to do with string technology, heavier balls on faster surfaces and the slowing down of these surfaces.

Is Fed a pure S/V? No, neither are Roddick, Tsonga and Stepanek, they use it as part of an overall game, that is where it is effective, not all the time.

Matchu
11-09-2009, 03:56 AM
Cheers ace ventura. It declines when I do not talk for a long time.

When I was naturalized in Australia on recommendation of the TA, it had been forced the change of the playstyle on a certain coach(he was not good for me). I believed a thought of one's tennis・philosophy and when what was spread in the fashion was not good, I judged it and went through Serve and Volley style. The same thing of Patrick Rafter !!!
I gave a result in a meeting, and it was recognized, and then I have taken Wimbledon expedition and Aussie Open etc along as hitting partner with great Aussie Legend.
He said that the present tennis was boring for the same thought. The present world tennis looks same all, rally on a baseline earnestly. I think that I have effect of Hewitt which caught a grand slams in the tennis of a rare grand stroke for those days Australia.

There is the opinion to be severe in the present times, but I think on the contrary, it is a perfect opportunity.
As for me, it was cut off the way as the tennis player by a serious injury at the age of 17 years old. An association executive officer, my coach and Aussie legendary players said, when there was not it, I may have become Serve and Volleyer of the world top class at this momment.

There are a lot of splendid former players in Australia. In other words, they teach them and can convey it. I believe that a player such as EDBERG and RAFTER comes out sooner or later.

So what your saying is, you were a good junior player who serve volleyed and a couple of "Aussie Legends" told you that you could make it in the big league and purely based on that fact you think serve volley is coming back?

It can't be done anymore, tennis is about consistancy and serve volleying is probably the most inconsistent play you can do. Players such as Andre Agassi and Lleyton Hewitt practically killed serve volley with their unbelivable ground strokes and in particular Hewitt's outstanding lobs.

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 05:42 AM
There are many former players who want to help and succeeded on tour, but it doesn't help when the main admin cares about the travel perks and not about player development.

As for playing style, each person is different, therefore the coaches and the others have to see the bigger picture.

It's shit saying hey he is Aussie he must be a serve/volleyer or he is Spanish or Argentine, therefore he has run to all day and just hit heavy topspin. The fact there aren't many Aussie players coming through is not because they don't serve/volley, making it on the senior tour is far from easy and should be focused on that, not on junior success.

ace ventura
11-09-2009, 07:36 AM
Yeah thats right Action jackson ... it is shit saying it should be one way or another, but it is sad we have become so underated as players in this country now due to lack of mens results , that while we can learn from the spanish etc they are all prob lauging at us,

We are known for our great volley prowess , so would be a shame to loose that ,and maybe thats what Raul is trying to say here, however yeah totally agree with you , individual is best,,,
Being able to mix it up does make for great tennis though...

Perks what Perks ?? Admin ?? And Yeah we need the ex players who want to be on court,,, not the ones who are employed and then leave Aus during every slam to commentate, I find that so funny, I mean why tell our players how to play from behind a desk,,, is that really committed to player development ? Is that to be there day in and day out like the players are expected to be ?
We usually have more admin at slams than players competing thats pretty sad... when this sport is so dependent on funding for players to get off the tarmac themselves...

I dont know so many things are screwed up here.... it is all so unbalanced,,, Junior , junior thats all they seem to talk about yet junior is actually development .... Which should be long term.... not numbered in five years,,,, whos that counting in and out right there ?

Who is committed to our players,,, These Admin guys get 3/ 4 year contracts and the yet the players /coaches can be tipped out with in a year if their short term results fall .... Thats a joke... Shouldnt the players get long term focus and the big guys have to get their shit together in a year ?

It is weird here just weird, go overseas and they all notice these things... Your right Action Jackson...

Raul
11-09-2009, 07:37 AM
Thank you for replying expressly. I am good even if I do not reply expressly. It is the opinion of the stranger after all, do not get excited. I do not say that all whom does Serve and Volley style. Please ignore it if obstructive gringos. Besides I've never played youth tournament in Australia. It is all my mistake. Are you satisfied in this ? It is just what white says.

Objection, White Australia Policy !!!!!
Don't invade the ground of the other race. Don't say that a hypocrite is hypocrite now. The white history loves to invade the ground of the other race.

Return a continent to the Aborigine, and return to your home.
This earth is not a thing only for whites.

Nunca vengo aquí.

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 07:50 AM
I mean teaching volleying skills is very important and good volleying works on all surfaces, but it's knowing when to come into the net, that takes time. Del Petro and Djokovic are trying to volley more, because they need to do it.

Perks, well they do get to go all the Slams and have it paid for by TA, not sure that classifies as a perk.

Ex-players commentating during Slams is not a problem at all, considering that is a very small part of the season for them and they should have a right to earn some cash doing this. Also it's another means of scouting, learning different training techniques. Hasn't hurt Rasheed when he was with Hewitt and now Monfils. Considering the young kids should be watching matches live, if not live, then on dvd and have things pointed out to them.

Aussie tennis doesn't lack money at all, it's just the admin sucks and it filters on the way down. Fromberg was working with the Gooch, but he realised the AIS wasn't doing the trick and is now coaching at a private club in Melbourne.

Aussies aren't going to like this, but clay is the best surface to develop tennis players, yes Federer spent half the year playing on clay, even though he excelled and his game is suited for other surfaces. Edberg, Becker, Lendl, Wilander were the same and Rafter also grew up playing on en-tout-cas, worked out very well for him.

So the myth that playing on clay just means moonball, moonball is just that, goes back to the individual. It's better on the joints of developing bodies, tactically knowing when to defend and when to attack. It won't happen as that would cost too much initially, and won't get short term gain.

Simply, TA thought they'd always be up there and have players competing at the highest level, but the rest of the world caught up and passed them.

ace ventura
11-09-2009, 08:54 AM
Yeah Rasheed is awesome in fact they are good to listen too, but some in key player development roles need to be with players, four slams a years yes while it is good scouting and getting information , playing the legends and such, it is also important is having them side of court . At the very least during the Aus Open , it would give our players much help.... This rarely happens unless some one like Tomic plays then every one seems to come out of the box.

Rasheed is not employed to develop players full time that is the difference, this also goes back to my point of players being with out coaches because they are moved , be it during tournaments to commentate or to travel with a different players it does not help players to not have " consistency."

EG the new Mens davis cup coach " MENS: davis cup coach but is commentating a " Womens" event in Bali .. How does that work ?
Yes he is great a great commentator as are they all however , surely the AUS MEN need his excellence on court .

While one week doesn't seem much it all adds up if we want players back in the top 100....

I guess this again is like s/v baseline it goes back to the individual cases Developing on clay yes also ... YES must better on the body how ever I am sure those bought up on clay also succumb to problems, this is where expertise in fitness etc comes in. BALANCE.

What Perks are you talking about in Admin, i see paying for " anyone " before the players themselves to travel as a big issue. If we want players ranked they must be willing to help travel them, very very few families can afford this from where we are geographically and that must be taken into account.

Even if they can not pay they should coordinate coaches to at least take groups , for the young ones sometime both parents work just to pay for lessons let alone be able to pay for tickets accom etc to have their kids travel, which by if TA dont include more in groups is a cost doubled...

International experience and yes getting over to play on Clay ( as we seem to have none here, is so important...) For all the money spent on blue courts all over the country here ... imagine what could have gone to so many players ?? Or even clay courts,

There is one clay court at melb Park that had the big reveal at great cost , I hear it is covered in weeds now. What a waste ....
Cant even look after one clay court " Scary."

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 09:06 AM
Players don't need to be cuddled all the time, there is a limit to how much someone can coach, they are the ones who have to do the work, have the discipline to want to go through the steps to have a solid career.

Nothing wrong at all them playing Legends event, if they are asked to do. They don't need to be with the players 25 hours a day, all the preparations should be already done before major events, then they have to be ready for that. The stuff away from the Slams is way more important than playing a hit and giggle during a GS.

Woodbridge and Masur don't shirk their jobs.

ace ventura
11-09-2009, 09:40 AM
It doesnt help when the main admin care about travel perks and not player development,,,, ? Who are they in Admin , to be the only ones with travel perks,when players them selves cant get off the tarmac.....
Admin, coaches everyone counts in all of this ... Everyone needs to care, i am not saying they are shirking their jobs nor that players need to be cuddled....... but consistency helps,
for " all players .:all year round,,,,

ace ventura
11-09-2009, 10:08 AM
That was your quote , about admin perks ,,,

What is very important to remember here is TA have all the funding, they have the great facilities and resources to bring players through,

The rightly expect players to reach certain goals, levels of work ethic all year around. If they themselves do not , like you say from the top do the same thing then

it is hypocritical system.

TA can not keep blaming the players for where we are in Mens Tennis Rankings. There is plenty of great club coaches who go out in their own UN paid time to watch their

players compete at weekends, to see how they play matches,

they do these things because they really care, and this is admirable and clearly indicates those who beyond the perks, really care about players and the state of Australian Tennis.

For all those who talk about players hunger or lack of it , then that hunger must also come from yes admin, down through all of the coaches , for this country to where we

should be again.

There is a difference between cuddling players and inspiring them and believing in Australian Tennis....

Pro players have coaches with them, is that cuddling them ? or their job to be there ? or at very least the coaches passion to see them succeed , you would hope.

If a coach cant be court side for a player at a slam of all places then what good are they ?

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Going on about ex-players who play legends matches at Slams or who are commentating is not a major problem.

It's not hard if a player is playing, then their coach is at their match, that comes before commentating at an event.

ace ventura
11-09-2009, 06:56 PM
Going on about ex-players who play legends matches at Slams or who are commentating is not a major problem.

It's not hard if a player is playing, then their coach is at their match, that comes before commentating at an event.

Thats right Action jackson,,,, it is those employed " full time " by TA, for development .... you know that are " paid " for that that need to be at matches, training etc..... before anything else ....thats what I am going on about.... not all ex players,, of course those who are not have the right to do whater they want.

ACTION speaks louder than words......

Matchu
11-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Thats right Action jackson,,,, it is those employed " full time " by TA, for development .... you know that are " paid " for that that need to be at matches, training etc..... before anything else ....thats what I am going on about.... not all ex players,, of course those who are not have the right to do whater they want.

ACTION speaks louder than words......

Are you seriously trying to say that ex players should go and watch juniors if they don't have any connection to them? I hate to break it to you buddy but they do that, at the Australian Open 2007 juniors the likes of Pat Rafter and Tony Roach were in attendance for Bernard Tomic's first round match.

I honestly doubt that having a big name in attendance for your match would help, I would argue that it would seriously damage chances of winning because of the added pressure.

ace ventura
11-10-2009, 05:58 AM
Didnt actually name any names and from my understanding rafter and Roach dont work full time in TA, actually read Roach is now working with juniors in France...

What I am saying is coaches / ADMIN whoever on full time wages should commit full time to players be it any day they may be needed. I think that is only fair, I dont get my annual wage and skip off to get a second wage , I personally enjoy being committed to my cause. My full time job, I was employed for.

We have a huge player development budget, resources need to be there for the players....

Who flys zoo class to Slams ? players or staff, but who has to PLAY ... I am talking about time and money being wasted in this country ,,, That should and must go to the players

if we want to move ahead, and that is not just to the juniors.. GO ASK, heaps of senior players right now , what assistance they are getting ..?

Basically i am fed up with all the negativity toward the players...

Thats all.

Public forum, my opinion and it wont change,, these guys expertise needs to be there ... not from boxes, planes , offices , endless meetings we are so caught up in red tape.....

and that needs to be simplified

If you think it too much pressure for juniors to have them there that is sad, they should know them well enough if they are employed to work in development , then it should be natural to have them there.

Kubler , saville , Tomic etc this year have worked with ex players and it hasnt done them any harm at all...

IrvingBerlin
11-10-2009, 12:07 PM
But is this whole "have big names working full time for junior development" thing the reason behind the success of the French, or the Spanish, or the Argentinians? I don't know the answer to this question, but we should be looking at the development programs and objectives of successful models worldwide.. and try to adapt them here. It doesn't require a whole swathe of big names from the past... I highly doubt that's how Argentina got its players to the top.

The simple fact is that tennis is competing against so many other sports - AFL, NRL, Union, cricket, football etc. Other countries do not have that diversity of sports - in Argentina and Spain the mentality seems to be "football or tennis". So it seems to me the fact that Australian young athletes have such an abundance of sports to try is working against us already. I don't know your experiences, but from my experience tennis is just a sport that people pick up for a few weeks in January when the AO is on, and then drop off later. People don't take it as seriously and we just don't get the coverage and media exposure of tennis here that occurs overseas.

Action Jackson
11-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Spain and Argentina have a lot of sports to choose from, it's a question of accessibility. Spain have a good system through the regional federations and there are always tournaments there, they have excellent climate, tough competition to get out of the local Spanish events.

Argentina, it was more just a talented generation, their fed does nothing for them.

IrvingBerlin
11-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Ah ok thanks for clearing that up.

Would you agree though that tennis as a professional is higher up in terms of desirability/popularity in Europe than it is in Australia?

Action Jackson
11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
It depends on where you are, there is no place in the world, where tennis is the number 1 sport and it's never going to change, that is just plain economic realities of it. But there are places where it is respected, if they are good enough, then they will make it.

Do a search on a thread called "Ladder to Success", then you will see how it is done in Argentina.

IrvingBerlin
11-10-2009, 12:30 PM
That's true. I'm thinking in more relative terms though... I just seem to get the impression from this forum, news coverage, and different attitudes of Aussie and non-Aussie tennis fans and regular players that there is a marked difference in the status of tennis as a pro sport in Europe as compared to Australia.

ace ventura
11-18-2009, 10:11 AM
Yeah well there is far more interest in Europe and USA as they have created the interest.

They also have great club tennis and a college system for comp.
They take their tennis far more seriously , you can tell by the number of futures and challengers they have compared to what we do here.

As if AMTs , and Junior Nationals are going to create much interest in the sport.... yet juniors news here is what dominates the very small amount of media attention we get here anyway... I've not once heard some one say in the street oh did you hear about Australia's latest best junior ... people don't give a shit.... Why would they.

Orange Bowl, ?? thats something you put on the kitchen table here, who gives a toss ??


Why would good players come here other than Aus Open and a couple of lead in events ?,,,

Here we just seem to put more and more money into blue tennis courts ... five national academies , and the AIS , and a shit load of funding to a few juniors,,, its so sad.
In fact the TA system , that is Tennis Australia have hardly a player over the age of 19 in AIS or National Academies, so how can anything be taken seriously here if you plan on playing men's or women's seriously.

It is like kindergarten tennis here... Very little supports those trying to be a professional man.

Tenys4r
01-08-2010, 12:54 PM
Am just sitting here thinking about state of Australian tennis. Would really like to think that tennis was not governed by who you are coached by; or favouritism or any other factor. I would like Australian tennis to flourish with the most deserving players receiving the rewards not the players who TA BELIEVE are going to be the best players. How many times does this not happen.

What is the ranking system for if you can pluck players barely ranked over players higher? It just makes no sense. Why have a ranking systrm.

Look at a player like Matosevic - ostracised by TA for being too old, bad behaviour and how on his own merits has climbed the rankings ladder. Surely this shows a greater passion and desire than for those that are handed things on a plate. Good on him - this is the type of player - a battler - that I think deserves all that comes to him.

Finally TA have had to acknowledge him with a wildcard into Medibank but he has been overlooked time and time again.

Wrong Direction
01-08-2010, 01:21 PM
I'd like to know who in the TA administration is really looking out for any of the 18-24 year olds that are still battling along without any help or funding. I have just seen the qualifying draw for the Hieneken Open in NZ. There are 10 byes in the first round. Surely there are some lines of communication in TA where they could contact our players ranked between 400-800 and say look your're not going to get into Sydney because we're going to ignore you again by awarding wildcards to young players in our program. We know that if you catch a plane to NZ for sign in you are a 90 % chance of getting a start in qualies. As a goodwill gesture here is an plane ticket. Good Luck. Just hopeful that this may happen one day I suppose. This is just the icing on the cake with what happened with the Brisbane qualies last week. They have taken their finger off the pulse.

Tenys4r
01-08-2010, 02:00 PM
I'd like to know who in the TA administration is really looking out for any of the 18-24 year olds that are still battling along without any help or funding. I have just seen the qualifying draw for the Hieneken Open in NZ. There are 10 byes in the first round. Surely there are some lines of communication in TA where they could contact our players ranked between 400-800 and say look your're not going to get into Sydney because we're going to ignore you again by awarding wildcards to young players in our program. We know that if you catch a plane to NZ for sign in you are a 90 % chance of getting a start in qualies. As a goodwill gesture here is an plane ticket. Good Luck. Just hopeful that this may happen one day I suppose. This is just the icing on the cake with what happened with the Brisbane qualies last week. They have taken their finger off the pulse.

So true Wrong Direction. Perhaps they could consider giving the players that they are sure aren't going to get in a heads up so that they can get themself off somewhere else. Surely this would be the best thing for tennis in Australia if they truly want all the players to have an equal chance. Unfortunately as you say it appearss thqt they have totally wiped this age group to concentrate on the younger boys. How disappointing. Now those that didn't get in are stuck hanging around waiting for their next rejection

Wouldn't they come running though if one of the "'old'' boys did break through! Some of those players have had no fundingh or support from TA at all. I read an article today about how they are sending 12 years old to Europe to hit with Mantilla now! How many of the older ones have had that opportunity?

jmf07
01-08-2010, 10:56 PM
Marinko got into Medibank Qualies directly with his ranking so Tennis Australia still aren't doing him any favours. As for the qualies situation in NZ im not sure. They probably didn't know what sort of cutoff there would be eg, look at Sydney's cutoff compared to Brisbane and both are 250's. The only one who probably thought it would be worth taking a risk and going to New Zealand when the AO qualies start next week was Lemke.

jmf07
01-10-2010, 01:13 AM
Four Corners is reportedly doing homework into doing a segment exposing Tennis Australia according to the Daily Telegraph.

save ausdecline
01-10-2010, 04:42 AM
someone should youtube that vid (i know youtube is not a verb)

Tenys4r
01-26-2010, 07:02 AM
I just watched a program where Todd Woodbridge stated that this group of under 16, under 14 and Under 12 players are the best we have had in 20 years.

How would he know this? He has not been involved in junior development until recently. How can they come out and say such random comments without backing them up? What is the criteria in the Under 12/14/16 to show that they are better than the ones 5 years ago? WHat about the players 18-25 which we have been watching with interest over the years and they have abandoned them?

Tenys4r
01-26-2010, 07:03 AM
Four Corners is reportedly doing homework into doing a segment exposing Tennis Australia according to the Daily Telegraph.

Would be interested to watch that one!

Thanos
01-26-2010, 07:55 AM
I just watched a program where Todd Woodbridge stated that this group of under 16, under 14 and Under 12 players are the best we have had in 20 years.

How would he know this? He has not been involved in junior development until recently. How can they come out and say such random comments without backing them up? What is the criteria in the Under 12/14/16 to show that they are better than the ones 5 years ago? WHat about the players 18-25 which we have been watching with interest over the years and they have abandoned them?

yeah i saw that too on today tonight. heres an article that i read today about australian tennis.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26635685-23209,00.html


Tennis
Legends divided over the future state of Australian tennis

By Nick Tabakoff
January 26, 2010

It is a familiar tale. Lleyton Hewitt has yet again been the only man to fly the Australian flag into the second week of a grand slam tournament.

And Samantha Stosur has also done her bit for national pride by making the fourth round of the Australian Open women's singles.

But their brave performances mask some unpalatable facts. Just two men and three women from Australia remain within the top 100. Lleyton Hewitt and Peter Luczak are flying the flag on the men's side. Samantha Stosur, along with two non-Australia born players -- Jelena Dokic and Anastasia Rodionova - are our only women in the top 100.

Two of the country's tennis luminaries, Todd Woodbridge and John Alexander, are at odds on the sport's future here. Alexander believes it may be in its worst shape ever. But Woodbridge believes the sport is on the cusp of a new dawn.

Alexander's concerns about a tennis dark age centre on the disappearance of both backyard tennis courts and public tennis complexes.

"The Northern Suburbs Tennis Association - which covers everywhere from North Sydney to Killara and Roseville - has lost 90 per cent of its tennis courts in the last 25 years," he says.

He claims as many as 2000 courts have disappeared in the past 15 years, and that the drop has included a huge fall in backyard tennis courts amid rampant property development.

He also argues there is a direct correlation between facilities and participation in the sport. "

If you reduce facilities by 90 per cent, you reduce participation by 90 per cent," he says.

"We've got two men in the top 100. It wasn't that long ago we had 20 men in the top 100."

Alexander argues Tennis Australia is not focused enough on local tennis competitions, which have shrunk in recent years.

Many local-area Saturday afternoon competitions - once the birthplace of tennis champions - have shrunk from several divisions in size, to one or two at most.

Alexander argues that while local tennis heavily promotes its showpiece, the Australian Open, little is being done to make it attractive to kids relative to other sports.

But Woodbridge, now the country's Davis Cup coach and the head of Tennis Australia's male development program, strongly disagrees.

While acknowledging backyard tennis courts are disappearing in the surge of property development in Sydney, he says much is being done elsewhere to rebuild both tennis courts and a tennis culture.

He also says important changes made under the stewardship of Tennis Australia bosses Steve Wood and Craig Tiley are about to lead to a resurgence of the talent pool that once made Australia great.

But the renaissance cannot come overnight, after years of high-level neglect of grassroots development. Woodbridge takes a thinly veiled swipe at previous Tennis Australia bosses, describing the Wood-Tiley regime as "an independent group of professionals coming in and running a business, not just a group of people spending a lot of time enjoying perks".

Startlingly, he admits that for all of the Australian Open's record crowds year after year, its "profits were low until the last two years".

But with the Open now highly profitable in the past two years, Woodbridge says the money is being put into the sport at grassroots level.

More than $130 million has been spent on tennis courts and facilities nationally, and 700 courts across the country have been built or resurfaced, in the last two years. Many are in regional areas: the birthplace of champions like Margaret Court (Albury) and Rod Laver (Rockhampton).

Tennis plans to be in 74 regional centres by 2012, with continuing upgrades of courts and competitions to be implemented.

Woodbridge is annoyed by Alexander's claim that promotion of the Australian Open is being put above player development.

"Without the event, you can't focus on anything," he argues, adding that a tennis culture is being recreated at a junior tennis level with Australian Open profits.

Assisting that re-establishment is the emergence of flows of money back into the development of players.

Woodbridge is seven months into his new player development role, where he has been given an $18 million annual budget to raise future stars. It is a long-term project designed to cultivate a winning culture: "You can't expect an 'instant coffee' solution where we breed instant champions."

But the results are starting to be seen. Notwithstanding personal controversies, there has been the high-profile development of 17-year-old Bernard Tomic, pipped in the second round by Marin Cilic. Cilic proved the form by beating US Open winner Juan Martin del Potro to reach the quarter-finals.

There has also been the emergence of a number of young guns among under-16s, particularly in the junior boys. That resurgence culminated in Australia winning the junior Davis Cup last year.

Woodbridge is in no doubt the individual members of that team - Jason Kubler, Luke Saville and Joey Swaysland - are primed to make the step up from juniors to the professional circuit. A total of "four or five juniors" will become successful professionals, he says.

More important is the sport's re-establishment of high-level links with the Australian Institute of Sport. New funding means tennis is now once more a "top priority" sport at the AIS.

Additionally, the AIS has employed former Spanish top-10 player Felix Mantilla to start a European base for Australian juniors coming through.

High-profile veteran coach Ray Ruffels is just one who has been poached back to help transition successful juniors into professional circuit tennis players.

Woodbridge takes a 10-year outlook.

"It's silly of me to put a date on it, but within 10 years, the template we created off the back of the success of the Australian Open will provide every young player in Australia with the maximum opportunity to reach their full potential," he says.

"I wouldn't have taken on this job if I didn't think tennis was going in the right direction."

so will be seeing results in 10 years :rolleyes:

save ausdecline
01-26-2010, 09:47 AM
woodbridge is gonna get his words eaten. there are a couple of big statements from him.

Tenys4r
01-26-2010, 11:07 AM
They make out that Tomic has been developed by TA - that is a joke - TA just pay for his coaches and trainers and whatever else he needs. So Kubler, Swaysland and and Saville are ready to make transition - how come Kubler is the only one out of those three through to the 2nd round of Australian Open JUNIORS. He also makes it sound like Mantilla is a new position - to my knowledge he has been around and part of AIS for at least 2 years.

jmf07
01-26-2010, 11:53 AM
:lol: Woodbridge.

I think Australian tennis will be in a stronger position than it is now but with the amount of money given to Tennis Australia there should be no excuse (even with injured players) as to why Australia doesn't have at least 5 players inside the top 100.

Mantilla has been there for a while now. I thought he started working for Tennis Australia around the same time he stopped coaching Odesnik. His appointment and the one of Ruffles is good but that alone wont turn it around.

I can't understand with Woodbridge that if he is such an important figure in Tennis Australia which he clearly is why the hell does he frigging do commentary work for channel 7. The guy should be out there watching the Aussie guys in their matches and practice sessions and how they go in their matches and not commentating on some womens match or a mens match involving two international players. He can see where to put this 18 million dollars that he has been given to invest annually in Australian players or those Aus Open wildcards or the Davis Cup selections.

Tenys4r
01-26-2010, 07:29 PM
Oh hallelujah! I thought it was just me thinking the same thing! How can he be Davis Cup Coach and Development Coach for Australia and still get time to do Channel 7. I totally agree - has anyone seen him around the courts watching our Aussie boys when they competed? - he was in Sydney doing commentary when the AO started - and as most of them only got through one round - where was he? I went to four matches Tomic, Kubler, Matosevic and Lindahl and didn't see him at any.

ace ventura
01-27-2010, 02:02 AM
Woodbridge knows everything about the players over the past 20 years ? I agree with Tenys 4 eva, how long has he been around exactly to make comments like that ?

I don't know why he has so much pull, I mean did the USA hand over development, selections, and so much power to one of the Brian Brothers,,, ?? Would they ?

I doubt one of them would come in and sweep out whole generations of players, and think it is fine to start again and put age limits on ? What a load of shit.

So Kubler lost and how much have they POURED into him in coaches, funding. advertising he is leading the charge, insinuating he will win this event, , at the cost of loosing so many others, ? Nt too mention the pressure it must put on him, they are stupid.

And the players they have put in AIS 2010 , touting this group as the " best talent in years" didn't even get thru a qualifying round at junior Aus Open.

These kids who have no results who are going to get major funding , touring, coaches while 18 + year olds who actually held ATP rankings get sweet F all.

Tiley and Woodbridge, WOW...

Wrong Direction
01-27-2010, 02:04 AM
Some of the money that they have spent on bands, DJ's etc to entertain the patrons at the AO should have been allocated to fly some guys with ATP rankings to the qualies at Brisbane and Auckland instead. There was 16 qualifying positions that ended up as byes in the first round of these tournaments. We have some promising guys in 1989-1991 age group who could have seriously done something in qualies at these 2 tournaments. This could have been an opportunity to give these largely ignored individuals a chance to give their rankings a boost before they self fund another season in Europe/USA. I think TA have lost sight that if we have alot of players ranked in the top 100, the public will come out in force to support them. Better that promoting the entertainment. Having a group of 18-24 year old that have legitimate chances to cause the odd upset will keep the public interested in the tennis around the country. A majority of the tennis public don't give a damn about the after match entertainment. They want to see quality tennis and better still they want quality tennis where there is an Aussie playing. There was bugger all publicity for Marinko before, during or after his match. If they had of bothered pumping up his tyres, the publicity may have generated additional crowd support which could've helped in the 2 first set tie-beakers he lost. If the administrators admitted they are mis-guided (They will never admit they are wrong) with youth policy and started pumping some resources towards the 18-25 age group, I believe we could have another 10 players in top 200-400 by end of the year. This would short circuit there 10 year plan by about 7 years. TA will never know if they don't give them a go. There are some players out there who don't get mentioned that will surprise if given an opportunity. The public want success soon and then continued success. They don't want to wait 10 years, if the public knew the extent of the politics, castle building, jealousy & unwillingness to be flexible etc etc that goes on within TA which is retarding development of our current group of 18-25 y.o players they would be horrified and demanding answers.

ace ventura
01-27-2010, 06:01 PM
yeah i saw that too on today tonight. heres an article that i read today about australian tennis.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26635685-23209,00.html



so will be seeing results in 10 years :rolleyes:

Tiley said that 5 years ago, so where are the players that were 14 and 15 when he got in, he has dropped them all !!!
SO much for his development pathway ??

Screwed them all over so will prob be the same with this next group.

18 Mill budget, all for young ones, many of who may decide Tennis isnt what they want to do. Many kids give up along the way. Especially when TA continue to decide to name names of who will make it from such a young age , They ruin half of them right there.. .lavishley funding some and forgetting the rest, and this sport takes money. That is a fact.

Alexander is right, club tennis thrives in Europe, and with TA just building their own fort of academies, at great expense, playing politics
with who they will develop based on age , personality and who know's who, will never produce players long term.

18 mill and none for those over 18, a complete joke.

save ausdecline
01-27-2010, 07:26 PM
Why can china almost demand two women chinese semi-finalists in the aus-open? Why can't we deamnd two women aussie semi-finalists. i think we gootta follow chinese tennis federations lead? Before the Olympics, The Chinese federeration employed soooo many overseas coaches with a wealth of experience and made players pay 60% of their prizemoney to their federation. Now Jie Zheng and Na Li are stars in China and tennis junior participation has has skyrocketed. Players are given the decision to "go on their own", so they pay for all expenses and make their own decisions but give only 6% of their prizemoney. Think it's time to follow their lead even though the politics in both countries are different. China was a communist country. It's just a model for Australia. Don't think Australia will follow it but we need to fasten up the redvelopment process. It involves a lot of work and what TA are doing is not sufficient for Aus to become a leading tennis nation.

willingnable
01-27-2010, 10:21 PM
You can not at all compare the tennis structure in China and transfer it here firstly the fact China is a communist country thats why they pay 60% of there winnings - that would be unworkable and completely wrong for Australian Tennis or for any democracy based country. The last time female athlets from China was all the rage was with their swimmers and they were doped to the max. The success of there players raises more question then it does at all to suggest that there program is one to follow at all.

jmf07
01-28-2010, 12:11 AM
The 60% of the winnings wouldn't work and I might be wrong (I don't follow womens tennis that much) but isn't one of the main reasons behind Zheng and Li's improvement due to the Chinese Tennis Federation having less involvement in their tennis. And then if they go out on their own they have to pay 6% of their prizemoney which for alot of young guys making their way up would kill them as I'm imagining the handouts they would get from the Chinese Tennis Federation would be very minimal. Plus most importantly their system hasn't reaped rewards on the mens tour.

Tenys4r
02-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Here is the list for the 2010 AIS Athletes. Sounds like from the video on the TA website these kids will get a nice easy run for themselves and their parents financially! Lucky them.


Jason Kubler (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: currently ranked world number 3; member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team (undefeated in singles for both this 16/u international teams event, and 14/u equivalent. Only other with this record is Rafael Nadal); Winner of Osaka Mayors Cup (Japan), Asia/Oceania Closed Championships, LTAT Junior Championships (Thailand), NT Junior International.
Best senior results: qualified for Darwin F5

Luke Saville (South Australia)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team; SF NT International
Best senior results: R32 Darwin F5 (first ATP points obtained at age 15)

Ben Mitchell (Queensland)
Age: 17
Best junior results: Finalist Loy Yang Power Traralgon International (lead-in ITF event to AO Junor Championships); QF AO Junior Championships
Best senior results: QF Bundaberg Futures; Qualified for Futures events in Bendigo, Port Pirie, Darwin, Elche (Spain), Alkmaar (Netherlands)

Joey Swaysland (New South Wales)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team; SF (singles) and W (doubles) LTAT Junior Championships; QF Asia/Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: Qualified F8 Bundaberg

Sean Berman (Victoria)
Age: 17
Best junior results: RU Australian Open Junior Championships
Best senior results: R1 US F18, USA F14; Qualified for F11 Bendigo


Maverick Banes (Queensland)
Age: 17
Best junior results:
Best senior results: Futures: 1r Netherlands F2; 3r Spain F23 qualifying; 2r Netherlands F3 qualifying, Netherlands F10 qualifying; 1r Netherlands F1 qualifying


Andrew McLeod (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Winner ITF Gallipoli Youth Cup
Best senior results: 2R Qualifying F7 Happy Valley

Mark Richards (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: QF NSW ITF; Australian Junior ITF; R16 Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: 1R qualifying for Futures events in Spain, France, Netherlands and Australia in 2009

Alex Bolt (South Australia)
Age: 17
Best junior results: RU Darwin ITF; QF NT ITF
Best senior results: R2 Qualifying F8 Port Pirie

Todd Volmari (Australian Capital Territory)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Represented Australia in Jnr Davis Cup Asia/Oceania qualifying; W Optus Nationals
Best senior results: Played qualifying for Futures events in Australia, Spain, France & Netherlands in 2009

James Duckworth (New South Wales)
Age: 18
Best junior results: QF AO Junior Championships; W Loy Yang Power Traralgon International doubles
Best senior results: Qualified for F8 Port Pirie, played qualifying events in Bendigo, Kalgoorlie, Esperance

Andrew Whittington (Victoria)
Age: 16
Best junior results: RU (singles) & W (doubles) LTAT Junior Championships; QF Asia/Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: Played qualifying for F11 Bendigo

ace ventura
02-15-2010, 11:11 PM
WOW,

So a lot of these players have got into the AIS fully funded program based on , well a lot of them very little results. It was only two to three years ago you needed very good mens results, to earn such stripes.
There are many players currently only 6 mths to 3 years older, which have ATP rankings , far better junior and senior results , who have been totally overlooked.

How can Tennis Australia actually justify this. ?

Hewitt =Legend
02-15-2010, 11:39 PM
Okay, I agree with Kubler, Saville, Mitchell, Berman and Swaysland but the rest have done absolutely nothing to warrant selection into AIS. The other 7 players are just your average juniors and there are 50-100 other juniors who are probably at the same level. TA have gone overboard with their youth policy and I don't think pouring money into these juniors is the right way forward.

Also, I can't believe the way they have totally overlooked Mark Verryth. It was just a year ago he was their next big thing and now he's being completely ignored. I guess you have to be ranked in the top 500 by the time you are 17 in order to impress TA :rolleyes:. Deadset, how they can fund Duckworth and Whittington, and not Verryth is beyond me.

Reid, Propoggia, Lindner, Crowe and Hubble should certainly be in there and there are about 50 other juniors who are the same level as the 7 players that I don't agree with.

Tennis Australia :retard:

Tenys4r
02-16-2010, 02:49 AM
I agree with you Hewitt=Legend. Some of these kids deserve it but some of them have no results. Especially when you compare them to some of the "slightly" older players who at the same age were winning matches in men's events. How can the criteria change so much? Sounds like who you are coahced by has quite a bit of influence. Duckworth is the oldest at 18. Obviuosly the others you mentioned are too old at 19 and over. What a joke! The ridiculous part is that two years ago they said that the then 16/17 year olds were too young for AIS now they are too old! Also how on earth is Berman able to walk into Australian tennis (where he is still listed on the ITF website as being from USA) and after a couple of months be given a spot in the AIS! TA / AIS demand loyalty and do not give it back! I bet there are quite a few angry parents/players out there atm about that one.

Hewitt =Legend
02-16-2010, 04:18 AM
Seriously it looks like Banes, Mcleod, Richards, Bolt, Volmari, Duckworth and Whittington have just been randomly selected of a extensive list of Australian juniors. Like TA have just closed their eyes and whoever their finger landed on was in.

There are countless players that are of equal standard or better than these ones. I used to play with Matt Barton and James Duckworth and I can tell you right now that Barton has way more potential and at 17 is also younger than Duckworth. Barton has just qualified for Mildurra this week winning 3 matches and plays Propoggia in the 1st round. None of the AIS chosen ones were there and if they were, I doubt they would of even won a match, let alone qualify. Barton has qualified for a few futures now and I think a win and a professional ranking is just around the corner for him. He's also coached by Sandon Stolle and hit with David Ferrer last year in Spain who said he had a great game that was especially good on clay.

So I guess what i'm saying is that Barton has had the same results if not better than some of the AIS funded ones and yet he's not chosen. I could name about 50 more but I really can't be bothered.

Another disgraceful omission in my opinion was James Lemke. He has improved immensely each year and started of this season by qualifying for Auckland (that's right TA an ATP World Tour 250) and pushing top 30 player Albert Montanes in the second set of their match. Oh but he's 21, his career is over isn't it TA :o.

ace ventura
02-16-2010, 08:40 AM
yep,

Barton couldnt even get a w/c into Aus Open juniors the year before last , as they gave them all to the young ones, this happened to quite a few of the better players who were top age to play AO, yet left out to give young ones EXPERIENCE, that is disgraceful that these kids work to do well and at top age and with more chance of doing well than the young ones , cannot even get in.

They are going on about Kubler Saville and thos kids winning Junior Davis Cup, but so did players before like Verryth, Sanders and Tomic, I think Sanders gone to college and verryth no funding to help him along. Also at AIS camp you had Marvin Barker, who was ATP 950, made semi of berrie future at 17, Barton, Maraga who is another very good player, Szabo who did well at Aus Open the year before, Hoh who has gone to college as there is no long term support, same for sanders,, Chaplin who at 14 won Euro ETC event , who had great results before going into AIS, then he went backwards on confidence and was dropped.

Yes AIS has not a good track record for looking at players long term. One minute you in the next dropped. Brendon Mcenzie gave up tennis altogether after six mths , that was not long after winning the 18s Nationals to gain AO w/c.

You also have the other great group not much oder, Matt Reid well he has had great results and as junior got to two slam dubs finals, you had easton who won Taralgon Grade 1,
you had Andrew Thomas, who won orange bowl, was a great junior, clifford marslad very talented who on his day beat Tomic,

Now you have TA coming out saying this is the best group in 20 years, well how when you look at the list of results of some of them .

These kids will get the lions share of funding , For everyone else it is pretty much over if you are 18.

Yes they need to look after the youth but to just drop a few generations of players is outrageous, especially when many of these kids supported their squads, paid for their squads, sat at endless meetings at night being TOLD for YEARS they were on the player pathway into the AIS, Many people trusted TA, and this shows you simply can not.

Yes many people are FUMING and rightly so.

Wrong Direction
02-16-2010, 09:02 AM
There are also the following players in 1990 age group who are ready to go, they are capable of playing well on senior tour but they are ignored by TA. The only reasons their rankings aren't a bit higher is a combination of lack of funding, minor injuries at inopportune times, family sickness, unlucky drawers etc. To not even consider helping t the following players is lunacy.

Kelly ATP 440
Reid ATP 495
Propoggia ATP 725
Gregory ATP 780
Balakrishnan ATP 783

There is only 1 1990 birth year in top 200 in world (Ruffin) FRA he was around 1119 at start of last year. We have 5 guys who could conceivably have similar results if they are given an opportunity. TA seem to forget that confidence is a major factor in tennis. Alot of players in age group at this stage of proceedings are very similar standard If these guys were spoon fed and given facilities like the chosen few, our tennis landscape could look a lot different. Any one of these guys could soon get on a roll because they've all been doing the hard yards training. Watch this space TA, the next big thing could be sitting right under your nose but you are too caught up in politics to realise.

Hewitt =Legend
02-16-2010, 09:22 AM
Well Barton has just beaten Propoggia 3-6 6-4 6-2 in the 1st round of Mildurra to get his first senior win and atp ranking points. Great work from Matt, he works very hard and deserves this win.

Ace Ventura, I completely forgot about Marsland, Thomas, Sanders and Chaplin, they just seem to have been given up on. You're right our previous successful Davis Cup team, apart from Tomic have been shown the door, what a complete joke. I wonder if this time next year Kubler, Saville and Swaysland will be in the same predicament. Somehow I doubt it.

I know about Mckenzie quitting tennis, it's pretty sad, basically TA kicked him out because of the smallest thing which I won't go into on this forum.

The worst thing from these players points of view is that Tomic will go on to become a huge star, so TA won't realise what crap work their doing now and just think because 1 extraordinary player has made it that these others weren't as good as he was and that they actually gave them a fair go :rolleyes:.

I'd been prepared to give TA the benefit of the doubt for a while now but this is to much and I've offically given up hope for them in the present time.

n8
02-16-2010, 09:42 AM
There are also the following players in 1990 age group who are ready to go, they are capable of playing well on senior tour but they are ignored by TA. The only reasons their rankings aren't a bit higher is a combination of lack of funding, minor injuries at inopportune times, family sickness, unlucky drawers etc. To not even consider helping t the following players is lunacy.

Kelly ATP 440
Reid ATP 495
Propoggia ATP 725
Gregory ATP 780
Balakrishnan ATP 783

There is only 1 1990 birth year in top 200 in world (Ruffin) FRA he was around 1119 at start of last year.

Agreed. It takes longer to crack the top these days and TA should acknowledge this. So many good players born around 1990 are being overlooked despite them being among the best for their age. Sorry to be a nag, but Uladzimir Ignatik is also top 200 (at 185) and was born 14.7.1990 but he's the only other 1990 player (along with Rufin) currently in the top 200.

Wrong Direction
02-16-2010, 09:53 AM
Tomic hasn't had to spend 14 hours on a train trip between 2 european cities to qualify at a future tournament and then have his racquet strung like a trampoline by friend of opponent in non english speaking country. Oh the level playing field. This sort of thing doesn't happen to a player in their cotton wool AIS. It's a mean old world out there for the 18-22 year olds trying to make it on their own. That's why some of them take longer to get the results we all hope for. Fingers crossed that some of them come out the other side. Todd Woodbridge made some comment about "tennis backpacker" when commentating during Sydney tournament, the TA system as it stands has created our own group of 'tennis backpackers'. (funded by struggling parents) The administrators are that out of touch it isn't funny any more.

ace ventura
02-16-2010, 11:02 AM
Yes so many great 1989, 1990, 1991, Players off the radar, I think that was a very strong group, do not know on what basis Todd is saying this new group is the best group in 20 years .
I mean was he around the last 20 years to know all the players... ?

What irritates me the most is when Tiley got in this is the group he had, none of them got into AIS at 14, there was in fact lucky to be a tour a year for these kids, and even then it was usually part subsidized let alone what this new AIS lot are getting. If you watch the video they even flew the parents up for the weekend,,, my goodness how much TA must have for that one group of kids.

The list of players gone by the wayside, from lack of funding , lack of guidance or programs is astounding, it is like mass waste of generations of players.

Yeah Mcenzie gone, the other all struggling to keep up the cost of the sport... many go to college for that reason alone. Heard Barker now plays for NZ, cant blame him ,was 950 when tried out for AIS , was in TA squads for years like, kelly , Reid, Barton ,Szabo, Maraga , Hoh, , chaplin , and goodness know how many others missed out who had better results than who they took, and yes these kids had backpacked their hearts out....

Completely GONE ...wow Nichols, donald ,Mcenzie, heaps of girls just gone and so many more Im sure over the past five years , and when you look at Joe Siriani and what he achieves how can they possible say these kids are to old at 18 to support.

Yep they have Tomic, culd be in trouble for Davis Cup , serves them right for putting so much into one player.
Not that long ago most of these kids were close to Tomic , yet they were not afforded to be coached by who they wanted and funded for it were they, yet look at Tomic's results now. When will TA wake up, if it worked for him when treated properly , it could work for more.

Oh tennis Australia, how cruel . The fact they tell the public will have to wait another 5 or 10 years for players is their choice, it is not that we didn't have the stock.
It is that they didn't do it. Full stop.

Does any one know of another country who comes out and says oh it will take five to ten years to get players ?? Seriously , they have already had five under the new rulers. !!

Tenys4r
02-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Agreed. It takes longer to crack the top these days and TA should acknowledge this. So many good players born around 1990 are being overlooked despite them being among the best for their age. Sorry to be a nag, but Uladzimir Ignatik is also top 200 (at 185) and was born 14.7.1990 but he's the only other 1990 player (along with Rufin) currently in the top 200.

TA only wants to get rid of that batch of players and look to the new. Ignatik is a early maturer as well!

Tenys4r
02-16-2010, 07:42 PM
Tomic hasn't had to spend 14 hours on a train trip between 2 european cities to qualify at a future tournament and then have his racquet strung like a trampoline by friend of opponent in non english speaking country. Oh the level playing field. This sort of thing doesn't happen to a player in their cotton wool AIS. It's a mean old world out there for the 18-22 year olds trying to make it on their own. That's why some of them take longer to get the results we all hope for. Fingers crossed that some of them come out the other side. Todd Woodbridge made some comment about "tennis backpacker" when commentating during Sydney tournament, the TA system as it stands has created our own group of 'tennis backpackers'. (funded by struggling parents) The administrators are that out of touch it isn't funny any more.


Totally agree Wrong Direction. I would just like to see a level playing field for all the players. A perfect example of privileged treatment was the US Open Juniors when Tomic lost to Devin Britton - i think it was first round. However, the TA entourage that made up his team was astounding. Even more so when you turned around and saw other Australian players on court - without ANYONE from TA watching them. Most of the players had coaches with them but no fitness trainers and the huge "hanger on contingent" of TA personnel who fly business/first class. What a joke. One of the player's parents couldn't afford to go over and watch him. I always assumed that was the life of a struggling athlete but obviuosly not for some! This fitness trainer that is being paid for specifically for Tomic - i mean why is that? Why not for a group of boys? Why just Tomic?

And then I was just listening to an audio of Todd Woodbridge talking on Darwin radio where he says "that the sport isn't expensive once you get going"!!!! and all you need is "a raquet and a ball". Maybe 30 years ago it wasn't expensive but travelling from country to country because of our location does not make for a cheap sport. The man lives in LaLa Land.

Tenys4r
02-16-2010, 07:46 PM
Agreed. It takes longer to crack the top these days and TA should acknowledge this. So many good players born around 1990 are being overlooked despite them being among the best for their age. Sorry to be a nag, but Uladzimir Ignatik is also top 200 (at 185) and was born 14.7.1990 but he's the only other 1990 player (along with Rufin) currently in the top 200.

If you go back and check the rankings of Reid and Propoggia at the time they were 17 Reid was 18 ITF and Propoggia 43. So where was all their funding? I know that one of them wouldn't even bother attempting to get into AIS because they have been knocked back so many times.

Hewitt =Legend
02-18-2010, 06:57 AM
Great to see Verryth beating Duckworth to reach the Mildurra quarters. Duckworth retired when he lost the 1st set 2-6. He seems to retire alot when he loses the first set, doesn't seem to have much fight. Go Mark, stick it up TA for their ridiculous choices for the AIS.

Also great effort from Barton going down to Jones 4-6 7-5 6-2.

ace ventura
02-18-2010, 12:04 PM
Yep couldn't agree more,,,, not that duckworth a bad choice but they certainly left out a heap of good players.

Wonder why the other AIS Athletes are not at this futures, not like we have a heap in AUS,,,, maybe they are going to go overseas instead , i guess they have the budget to go where ever they want.

Id say a lot of people will be cheering for the under dogs from now on, the ones out trying to do this alone.... and there is alot of them thats for sure, how many made AIS ,
what 16 players out of the whole country to get all that help. We have now what 5 national academies and the pathway stops for those players over 18 ,?

SO they set up another base in Canberra and Spain just for 16 athletes all ( bar 1 ) Duckworth under the age of 18.... JOKE JOKE JOKE. How on earth do they get away with this, Isnt this tax payers money too ?



Simply AMAZING.

Tenys4r
02-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Great to see Verryth beating Duckworth to reach the Mildurra quarters. Duckworth retired when he lost the 1st set 2-6. He seems to retire alot when he loses the first set, doesn't seem to have much fight. Go Mark, stick it up TA for their ridiculous choices for the AIS.

Also great effort from Barton going down to Jones 4-6 7-5 6-2.

Verryth has had a good tournmaent so far. As for Duckworth probably too much pressure now. Verryth doesn't have the AIS pressure anymore.

save ausdecline
02-19-2010, 12:48 AM
This sense of exclusivity done by TA will lead to a fight between Government funded players vs not funded by government players. Wonder which players will develop better. Not neccesarily the govt funded players. You may be surprised.

ace ventura
02-20-2010, 07:12 AM
This sense of exclusivity done by TA will lead to a fight between Government funded players vs not funded by government players. Wonder which players will develop better. Not neccesarily the govt funded players. You may be surprised.

GREAT NAME< " SAVE AUSDECLINE" and a very good point !!

Might be worth going to local MP's to find out about Government Funding After all TA are certainly not choosing to fund players on ATP ranking nor results.

They are choosing to ignore what players and families themselves have put into this sport financially to travel and gets these rankings. handpicking who they THINK might come through, on what concrete evidence ? To give so much to so few. ?

I mean do you think the fact we win Junior davis Cup or not is what all of this is about. Last junior davis cup team are not looked after now other than Tomic, who does deserve to be, however how much slice of the pie should he get. Who is to say any player may not give up or get injured in this sport.

Is junior davis cup a real indication of how good our juniors are , some countires in some years do not field there best juniors I heard.
It would be interesting if there was some research on that.

There is a age discrimination going on. TA did research saying juniors had to be a certain rank to make top ten in the world. I wonder how much was spent on that research. ?

Why don't TA just try getting more into top 100 first , which would mean funding the 18 plus ? To start with , then at least this might lead to some belief from the younger ones that we are making some sort of inroads with the rest of the world.

Right now how many do we have in top 100, and yes results would say not many on the cusp of top 100 are being funded , let alone having sponsorships set up for them like some of these young ones.

You really do wonder how it all works. I guess at the end of the day , is it the national academy coaches who have the say ? So if your not in that system by your own or by their choice , you really have little hope.

ace ventura
02-21-2010, 08:29 PM
Totally agree Wrong Direction. I would just like to see a level playing field for all the players. A perfect example of privileged treatment was the US Open Juniors when Tomic lost to Devin Britton - i think it was first round. However, the TA entourage that made up his team was astounding. Even more so when you turned around and saw other Australian players on court - without ANYONE from TA watching them. Most of the players had coaches with them but no fitness trainers and the huge "hanger on contingent" of TA personnel who fly business/first class. What a joke. One of the player's parents couldn't afford to go over and watch him. I always assumed that was the life of a struggling athlete but obviuosly not for some! This fitness trainer that is being paid for specifically for Tomic - i mean why is that? Why not for a group of boys? Why just Tomic?

And then I was just listening to an audio of Todd Woodbridge talking on Darwin radio where he says "that the sport isn't expensive once you get going"!!!! and all you need is "a raquet and a ball". Maybe 30 years ago it wasn't expensive but travelling from country to country because of our location does not make for a cheap sport. The man lives in LaLa Land.



I Just listened to that radio interview,,,,,,,
Yeah he must be in la la land, Maybe because Todd himself went through AIS himself he has no idea of what it takes with out the handouts to be able to
stay in this sport, it is outrageously expensive,,,, how many potential players have I seen give up due to the expense alone. ? Way to many .
TA have made this an elitist sport , and thats even while you are still developing,,,,, This is long before many have had a real chance to give this sport a go.

willingnable
02-23-2010, 08:10 AM
this is why it would be better to have rafter in this role as he knows whats it like to have to work your way up. after all he was still battling until he was 22 and his game came togeter, and he also knows what required to comeback from injury. Unlike woodbridge he never had any free rides.

Tenys4r
02-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Woodbridge needs to get out and speak to the parents of the players that don't get the free rides. See how families are struggling, the issues they have. He sits up there with three jobs/incomes and then has the hide to say "it isn't expensive". For those players just outside the favoured groups of kids - it is expensive. So many promising players have had to give up because of lack of funds.

Will be interesting to watch the Four Corners program on Tennis Australia that is on next week and see what they have to say. Let's hope it isn't a Tennis Australia beat up!

ace ventura
02-26-2010, 12:29 PM
HA HA the DARWIN RADIO INTERVIEW... WOODBRIDGE ? Not expensive once you get going ?? FOR WHO ??

If this sport had any form of democracy, he would be voted out on that comment alone for being so completely out of touch with the average Australian Family and yes o how many players we have lost for that reason alone. It is outrageously expensive this sport.

As for Tiley HEAD oF PLAYER DEVLOPMENT .. has any one ever seen him out hitting balls, or maybe these guys prefer golf balls ??

All I know is he said this would be Transparent and based on players results and rankings, well clearly not when we see who is selected for the AIS and the major funding again this year.

As for coaches being accountable he also said, well where are all our results, yet there seems to be less and less players being supported yet how many coaches now five years on, with in AIS, and Five !! National academies, mantilla and a base in spain ?

Who is accountable the players or the coaches, it this all set up for the players or for jobs ?? You have to wonder....

I wonder if they even know how many good potential players we have not been able to afford " to be lost " ,,, yes just on the " cost " of this sport.

It is quite surreal what is going on here with this sport.

Count the amount of players that have gone to college in the past five years, you would have to thank the USA not Australia for supporting so many players.

Stoltenberg must have been right when he said he wanted to train players for the tour, not for college, look where a lot of our players who Tiley started with five years ago have gone now.... To college , such is our world class training programs and the support in the cost of this sport.

what 1 two in the top 100 ? mmm Great return.

ace ventura
02-26-2010, 01:06 PM
TA are just a big business , throwing out continuous statistics and money on endless research.... is it all just excuses ?

,,, Where are the players they had five years ago ... who started under Tiley's development programs at 13, 14 and 15 of age , the " last junior davis cup winners ", have they cracked the top 10 on the same research that is supporting this new youth policy now ??

TA sent those players ... along dead end pathways or to exit doors, and coaches off to play musical chairs with the next lot of youth ..... all the while

forgetting all these statistics are actually involving " human beings " who may not " humanly " fit their " desired statistic paper work moulds ."

Seriously how can TA predict exactly how long it might take a player to come on, before tipping half of them out ?

Rafter would have been gone. Imagine that statistic of loss.

ace ventura
02-28-2010, 12:40 PM
Woodbridge needs to get out and speak to the parents of the players that don't get the free rides. See how families are struggling, the issues they have. He sits up there with three jobs/incomes and then has the hide to say "it isn't expensive". For those players just outside the favoured groups of kids - it is expensive. So many promising players have had to give up because of lack of funds.

Will be interesting to watch the Four Corners program on Tennis Australia that is on next week and see what they have to say. Let's hope it isn't a Tennis Australia beat up!

I hope it isn't a beat up either, so tied of hearing how everything is so on track when over the past five years our numbers in top 100 mens
have dwindled, will be nice to hear views from unbiased people that don't all work for Tennis Australia for a change.

Im also interested in watching it , it airs tonight.
If any corruption on any level is exposed on this show , that would be massive news .

As corruption in " any business " is monstrous and can have devastating affects on many good people long term.
It is not on.

Either way it will be interesting to see a program about Tennis in Australia and to find out what all this is about.

ace ventura
02-28-2010, 09:15 PM
Here is the list for the 2010 AIS Athletes. Sounds like from the video on the TA website these kids will get a nice easy run for themselves and their parents financially! Lucky them.


Jason Kubler (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: currently ranked world number 3; member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team (undefeated in singles for both this 16/u international teams event, and 14/u equivalent. Only other with this record is Rafael Nadal); Winner of Osaka Mayors Cup (Japan), Asia/Oceania Closed Championships, LTAT Junior Championships (Thailand), NT Junior International.
Best senior results: qualified for Darwin F5

Luke Saville (South Australia)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team; SF NT International
Best senior results: R32 Darwin F5 (first ATP points obtained at age 15)

Ben Mitchell (Queensland)
Age: 17
Best junior results: Finalist Loy Yang Power Traralgon International (lead-in ITF event to AO Junor Championships); QF AO Junior Championships
Best senior results: QF Bundaberg Futures; Qualified for Futures events in Bendigo, Port Pirie, Darwin, Elche (Spain), Alkmaar (Netherlands)

Joey Swaysland (New South Wales)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Member of 2009 Champion Junior Davis Cup team; SF (singles) and W (doubles) LTAT Junior Championships; QF Asia/Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: Qualified F8 Bundaberg

Sean Berman (Victoria)
Age: 17
Best junior results: RU Australian Open Junior Championships
Best senior results: R1 US F18, USA F14; Qualified for F11 Bendigo


Maverick Banes (Queensland)
Age: 17
Best junior results:
Best senior results: Futures: 1r Netherlands F2; 3r Spain F23 qualifying; 2r Netherlands F3 qualifying, Netherlands F10 qualifying; 1r Netherlands F1 qualifying


Andrew McLeod (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Winner ITF Gallipoli Youth Cup
Best senior results: 2R Qualifying F7 Happy Valley

Mark Richards (Queensland)
Age: 16
Best junior results: QF NSW ITF; Australian Junior ITF; R16 Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: 1R qualifying for Futures events in Spain, France, Netherlands and Australia in 2009

Alex Bolt (South Australia)
Age: 17
Best junior results: RU Darwin ITF; QF NT ITF
Best senior results: R2 Qualifying F8 Port Pirie

Todd Volmari (Australian Capital Territory)
Age: 16
Best junior results: Represented Australia in Jnr Davis Cup Asia/Oceania qualifying; W Optus Nationals
Best senior results: Played qualifying for Futures events in Australia, Spain, France & Netherlands in 2009

James Duckworth (New South Wales)
Age: 18
Best junior results: QF AO Junior Championships; W Loy Yang Power Traralgon International doubles
Best senior results: Qualified for F8 Port Pirie, played qualifying events in Bendigo, Kalgoorlie, Esperance

Andrew Whittington (Victoria)
Age: 16
Best junior results: RU (singles) & W (doubles) LTAT Junior Championships; QF Asia/Oceania Closed Junior Championships
Best senior results: Played qualifying for F11 Bendigo


Looking at this I cant understand why kids like Kelly , Reid did not get in on their results. This is after all major funding which can
go a long way in a players future if available or not, depending on a players/ families financial position.
Will be interesting to see if four corners looks into the selection of things for players in this country.
How transparent it is. ?
Not to mention there was at least 5/6 really good players born 1991 flown to the AIS camp to try out, yet not one in that age group got in.
More waste of TA money getting there , if there was no intention of taking them.
It is very fishy when some of these older players had way better results and many have potential big games.
Also adding to this, articles came out in the paper very soon after about how they were going to support the younger players and the youth policy, so
you wonder if selection was all predetermined and planned before the camp.
If that was the case , it is certainly questionable , then it is very mean to have been inviting a lot of these kids. Who would have trusted the selection was a level playing field,
and not based on the fact they may be only months or even a year older.
It was also the case with the selection the year before where not one 1991 player got in.
I am not sure how they justify these selections or if they even did.
Surely there should be more reason than the results they posted above on the TA website.
As you could post better results from some that did not get in.

ace ventura
03-01-2010, 10:53 AM
Well Four Corners was brilliant !!

I think this justifies every single question, complaint and comment on this thread.

That no one listens and know one cares in there, and it certainly pointed out that it is THEIR WAY OR THE HIGH WAY !!

They looked like a complete incompetent greedy pricks , and if they want to continue to say they have found the best group of players, ( as above ) I would just say that. they

will never be able to prove that it true , but it can be proven that they what they did was a great job of screwing up the last lot . !!!

Oh tennis Australia shame on you.

ace ventura
03-01-2010, 02:25 PM
AFTER FOUR CORNERS I AM EVEN MORE CONFUSED TENNIS AUSTRALIA SAY THAT FUNDING IS PERFORMANCE BASED. ????

IT IS CLEARLY NOT WHEN YOU READ THIS LIST OF CURRENT AIS PLAYERS.

SPORTS COMMISSION " PLAYERS BETWEEN 17 AND 23. ".. Look at these ages . and There is with out ANY doubt players up to 23 with far greater results.

BY THE WAY PLAYERS WHO FOUR YEARS AGO WHO WERE TOLD AS KIDS , ( WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD EARN THEIR WAY THROUGH " THIS CLEARER THAN EVER PATHWAY " quotes TILEY " ) BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE ON THE RIGHT PATHWAY INTO THE AIS ,, YES THE ONLY WAY ... TA's WAY TO GIVE FUNDING , OTHERWISE MANY HAVE HAD TO GIVE UP.

WHAT I ASK ? CLEARER WHEN HE FIRST PUT THE PATHWAY IN OR WHEN HE DECIED TO CHANGE IT ? OR CHANGES THE CRITERIA EVERY YEAR........

Oh my who on earth would want to say they worked for TA. ? For all that money they are gaining through running the AO , there is very little care for tennis players.

ace ventura
03-03-2010, 06:20 AM
Tiley talks about accountability with in TA.

Come to think of it how can any TA coach be held accountable for a players results , when the results criteria keeps changing every six mths or year when Tiley calls it. ?

How many times has the National Academies and AIS Criteria changed in each age group over the past four years, this is pretty complicated pathway if you want any long term stability if you ask me as a player or a coach.

Wrong Direction
04-19-2010, 07:36 AM
http://www.tennis.com.au/pages/News.aspx?id=4&pageId=11478&HandlerId=2&archive=false&newsid=6995

Steve Healey has been elected new president of Tennis Australia. Does anyone think there will be any major re thinking of the 'youth policy' or will we get the same from TA.

Audacity
04-19-2010, 08:11 AM
Same old shit unfortunately.

ace ventura
04-24-2010, 11:33 PM
well healy is in, and it is no more important to see who he gets out.
TA have treated their players so badly over the past five years, all those who thought they were on a pathyway only to be dropped for this youth policy.
Lied to , again and again. TA make the Melbourne Storm look like saints.
The AIS camp invited 6 or so players born in 1991 ad did not take one of them, why did they bother spending the money on flights , accom etc when clearly they
were going to cut off the age at 1992. Another total farce. Such a crude thing to do to athletes who would have trusted level playing ground, not whether some kids were six
months or a year older or younger than the others.
I hope Steve Healy has the sense to get this youth policy abolished, it is a know fact boys mature later, yet they are cut off at the knees at 18. I hope he has the sense to audit the payer budget and see where it goes and how evenly it is spread, TA should know from History you can not predict a champion from 14, 15 or even 16. SO much can go wrong
in a players career.
We have so many good 18, 19 and 20 and even 21 year olds , look how Marinko came on last year , who with help being in or out of the system with coaches of their choice could give it a real shot. This sport should not come down to which families get funded and who can afford it or not. We have seen that many players do better outside of the system with a coach of their choice if they can afford that.
So does TA want top players or just control, Healy has to be smart enough to do his homework on this.

Tenys4r
05-27-2010, 12:16 PM
Here is the latest gem from Todd Woodbridge - if this doesn't confirm that he has totally written off anyone over 17 then nothing will! Bad luck all you players who are over 17 - they are not interested in you at all - we all havfe to wait 8 years for Tomic and Kubler - omg.


Woodbridge calls for patience TOM WALD
May 27, 2010 - 3:04PM

Davis Cup coach Todd Woodbridge says Australia's budding male players must be allowed time to develop on clay despite Lleyton Hewitt being forced once more to fly solo at Roland Garros.

Carsten Ball's swift second-round exit at the hands of Serbian Viktor Troicki 6-4 6-3 6-3 on Wednesday continued a worrying trend for the nation's men at the French Open.

Hewitt aside, no Australian man has reached the third round of the singles at the grand slam event since Wayne Arthurs back in 2001.

And with the 29-year-old two-time major winner in the latter stages of his career, there's a real danger Australia's presence at the tournament on the men's side could be almost non-existent in the not-too-distant future.

Woodbridge warned there would be no quick fix but believed the likes of 17-year-olds Bernard Tomic and Jason Kubler could lift Australia's presence in Paris in the future.

"You can't press a button and make it happen," Woodbridge said.

It would take time for the players to reach that level with the changing nature of the men's game demanding greater physical maturity and strength.

"Statistically, it is getting much harder when the average age a player is cracking the top 100 for the first time is 24," he said.

"In years gone by when a top junior was No.1 in the world, then bang they were into the top 100 (on the main tour). That is not happening anymore and it is taking longer."

He noted there wasn't a teenager in the men's top 100 at present.

"Nowadays it is such a lateral, powerful sport and young people can only keep up with it for so long against the stronger bodies of the 24, 25-year-olds."

Clay has tended to be Australia's least favoured grand slam surface, even if it was used for a recent Davis Cup tie in Brisbane, as most players grow up on either synthetic grass or hard courts these days.

Europeans and players from Latin America generally play their formative years on dirt.

In a bid to improve our stocks, Tennis Australia has been sending top juniors to Spain for clinics in recent times with former French Open semi-finalist Felix Mantilla.

TA is also working to increase the number of clay courts around the country.

But rising property prices in the major cities and the extra costs involved with the upkeep of clay courts works against such plans.

Woodbridge also said he was passionate about reinforcing what was the traditional Australian style of play.

"Australians have always been aggressive, had the ability to volley and compete hard and I think we have lost a couple of those elements," he said.

"We need to bring those things back and be able to teach every kid how to volley.

"We are not going to bring serve and volley back but you need to be able to define who you are as a player and a nation and that is very important to me to make sure that that happens.

"In some ways, we have looked at what others do - how does Rafa (Rafael Nadal) play.

"We are not a Rafa nation.

"Each player is an individual and you need to give them their individuality but also give them a basis for a style of play."

ace ventura
05-27-2010, 10:13 PM
suprise suprise,
So six years after the shake up and Tiley at head of development, we have another two players touted to make it.( never mind the last lot they touted, where are they now )
So after putting in a youth policy, not accepting anyone into AIS over the age of 18 , they now say it takes on average till 24 to reach top 100.

That is genius to finally work that one out.


If after all this time they are still relying on two players to come through in another so many years then something is very wrong, considering the talent they had to work with over the past 6 years, the resources they have had and all the coaches they have at their finger tips.
They had a group of 14 , 15 and 16 year olds six years ago with the re shuffle , who on earth is accountable for messing that lot up ? They didnt have the luxury of developing till 24 they were all kicked out at 18 and 19.

So to the next lot....

save ausdecline
05-27-2010, 11:37 PM
lolololololol at TA, they were always a laughing stock

n8
05-28-2010, 12:42 AM
Woodbridge also said he was passionate about reinforcing what was the traditional Australian style of play.

"Australians have always been aggressive, had the ability to volley and compete hard and I think we have lost a couple of those elements," he said.

"We need to bring those things back and be able to teach every kid how to volley.

"We are not going to bring serve and volley back but you need to be able to define who you are as a player and a nation and that is very important to me to make sure that that happens.


Huh? His reasoning about why Aussie players should be able to volley is very weak. It's about winning matches, not playing tradition.

ace ventura
05-28-2010, 04:52 AM
yeah where do these guys get off biding more time for themselves to work out how to produce top 100 players.
We have seen just about every excuse in the book.
First we need blue courts to develop on...... for their True bounce they say, now we need clay courts,
One minute it is all to late for 18 year olds and they are all slapped with the youth policy , and yeah now stat raquet it is the type of play
eg volleys;;;...

honestly the real ripper is on top of this they talk about " individuality ...... Thats the biggest joke in this , who is treated individually,,,??

If they were then age would be no barrier for them all, not just kubler and Tomic, nor style of game nor what courts a certain type of player may choose to develop on or let alone what might suit their game.

What a joke these constant sweeping reforms by TA , that change whenever they feel like it,,,, Thats why we dont have players, how can a player develop long term here with the continual change and hypocrisy over the past 6 years.

Tenys4r
05-28-2010, 05:12 AM
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/high-hopes-for-tennis-australia-recruit-20100101-lli1.html

Besides the issues highlighted there are so many backflips in this article I can't even begin to start. They disgust me with their ability to be able to change the guidelines to suit themselves.





High hopes for Tennis Australia recruit DARREN WALTON
January 1, 2010
.AAP

Davis Cup captain John Fitzgerald has hailed the recruitment of Spanish claycourt coach Felix Mantilla as one of the most significant developments in Australian tennis in decades.

Mantilla has been appointed to nurture Australia's next generation of stars and, given that Australia has the most exciting batch of juniors in world tennis, his role is crucial.

In Bernard Tomic, Jason Kubler and Luke Saville, Australia boasts the top-ranked 17, 16 and 15-year-old players in the world.

The trio - who between them have already captured the junior Australian Open, junior US Open and junior Davis Cup trophies - are among a raft of outstanding teenagers aiming to restore Australia's battered reputation.

"Of the top 25 youngest players in the world that are ranked on the senior tour - not the junior tour - four of them are Australian, and that's more than any other nation," Tennis Australia boss Craig Tiley told AAP.

"Really, for the first time in many, many years, we've got a core group of young players."It's not just one. There's a large group of them and this will lay the foundation not only for the future but also for what's behind them.

"It will provide ongoing motivation and interest for other great athletes just beneath them.

"So we're really excited about it."

Fitzgerald believes Australia has about 10 world-class junior boys, with many good judges tipping 14-year-old NSW hot shot Jay Andrijic - who is already being liked to a young Rafael Nadal - could emerge as the best of the lot.

The outlook is also bright for Australia's next wave of women.

Australia won the Junior Fed Cup two years ago, while long-time coach Gavin Hopper rates the current crop of 12 and 13-year-olds as the most promising group he has seen.

The task now is for Tennis Australia (TA) to parlay this exceptional junior talent into grand slam glory in the professional ranks.

Enter Mantilla.

The former French Open semi-finalist and world top-tenner is central to TA's strategic plan, implemented four years ago, aimed at returning Australia to the top of the world tennis tree.

A priority of Tiley and his new regime was to replenish the country's dwindling stock of clay courts.

With that objective partly fulfilled - with clay courts now laid at every national training academy in the country and tennis clubs across Australia slowly but surely reverting to dirt - TA aggressively pursued Mantilla.

"Having clay courts is one thing, but then having someone that knows how to coach and play on clay is another," Tiley said.

After a lengthy process, Tiley finally nabbed his man last year, securing Mantilla's services from under the noses of equally eager officials from the USTA and Britain's national federation.

"He looked at all the programs and said ours was the most appealing," Tiley said.

As part of the estimated $150 million invested in tennis by TA and the state and national governments over the past four years, TA has established a claycourt training base in Barcelona.

With Mantilla stationed in Spain for most of the year, TA will send Australia's elite juniors, from 12 upwards, across for rigorous training blocks of four to eight weeks on clay, universally acknowledged as the best surface to learn on.

"We still have a court surface issue in this country," Fitzgerald said.

"It's improving ever so slowly and having Felix Mantilla now is a great asset to us. I reckon it's a very, very important appointment.

"For our better kids, the trend now to go earlier, to get 12, 13, 14-year-old kids into Europe, is a good one.

"Felix knows how to play on clay, understands the ramifications of not learning on clay and it gives them the base that they need to play on all surfaces.

"But clay is the best thing to do it on. You learn when to attack, when to defend. You get more miles in your legs, you get all the hip strength, quads and it's better on your joints.

"Some of our kids have gone across there and the first time they go, it hits them like a ton of bricks; it's a reality check.

"But if they get that experience early, it can make a difference.

"So we're trying to send more and more kids earlier and earlier."

Tiley said the European experience "is also about playing players who play on clay".

"Playing against the Spanish kids and the French kids, it's great for them," he said.

"And they all go with their coaches. Assigned coaches.

"So we're investing heavily in that initiative. We've invested in the personnel, we've invested in the travel and, for us in Australia, it's costing us a lot more."

The other significant change in TA's player development program, which is the envy of other national federations - even if it hasn't yet been recognised by the Australian public at large - is the fast-tracking of our elite juniors to the professional ranks.

While Saville and Kubler top the world rankings as 15 and 16-year-olds, TA now actively discourages Australia's best youngsters from contesting junior events from age 17 up.There's a very good reason why you won't find Nadal's name on any junior grand slam trophies - he was too busy as a teen cutting his teeth against men.

It's no coincidence either that Nadal's only compatriot in the top 100 of the boys 18 years and under world rankings is a 16-year-old at No.88 - Spaniards generally don't bother playing junior tournaments.

After an exhaustive retrospective investigation of the rankings history of the world's top 100 men and women as at January 1 this year, TA has introduced performance benchmarks to determine players' funding levels.

For example, to receive a full scholarship with Tennis Australia, a 17-year-old boy must be ranked inside the top 720 on the ATP Tour, or top 10 on the ITF junior rankings.

ITF junior rankings aren't applicable for 18-year-olds and, by 19 and 20, players can forget full TA backing if they're not in the world's top 165.
"In the old system in Australia, we don't let them play juniors anymore," Tiley said.

"We spend more money and resources now into helping them make the transition to the seniors.

"We pick the 16 best (junior) athletes (from 15 up), we give them a coach and we pay for their travel around the world.

"If you are 17 and 18 years old, we don't fund junior tennis for you.

"We're now focused on preparing them for professional tennis, not junior tennis.

"And the transition now starts at 11. It doesn't start at 17 years old."

Australia has a long list of junior grand slam champions and junior world No.1s who failed to kick on.

Mark Kratzmann, Shane Barr, Johan Anderson, Grant Doyle, Ben Ellwood, Todd Reid, Debbie Freeman, Jenny Byrne, Michelle Jaggard, Jo-Anne Faull, Joanne Limmer, Trudi Musgrove and Siobhan Drake, with due respect, all flopped after highly successful junior careers.

Lleyton Hewitt, on the other hand, ditched the juniors and, at 15, became the youngest male in history to qualify for Australian Open, then toppled Andre Agassi en route to his first ATP title at 16 before being crowned the youngest men's year-end world No.1 at 20.

Fitzgerald says while "everybody in Australian tennis" should carry the blame for taking their eye off the ball for a decade in the 1980s and 90s, resulting in a lost generation, there is now genuine hope of a return to the halcyon days.

"Absolutely we've got to aspire to that," Fitzgerald said.

"We had Lleyton and Pat (Rafter) who reached No.1 and that's an enormous effort in a global sport.

"No-one can tell me it's as easy as the 1950s and 60s to do that. I mean, there's so many more countries now, and China's coming too.

"However, you've got to aspire to that. You just want more kids at a tour level and more kids that give you a chance to win a Davis Cup competition.

"We've got to get more numbers ongoing as well. It's an ongoing battle.

"But I think over the last four years, the structure of player development is starting to have some effect."

When he took charge in 2005, Tiley warned it would be quite a journey back for Australian tennis.

"We were losing courts, participation was declining, ball sales were declining, the number of players in the top 100 and top 250 were declining," Tiley said.

"So we said we were going to turn this around.

"It's going to take time and the final, ultimate end product of it will be great champions.

"However, developing a great champion will only really be leveraged well if there's an infrastructure to support the next one coming through.

"So that will take years and years.

"But I know now, four years later, that we're going into our second year of an increase in participation - an eight per cent increase, 170,000 more people playing the game in 2008.

"We've arrested the decline in courts. We've built over 700 new courts and that's resulted in an outside investment of $120 million.

"I have a direct relationship with 2500 coaches, a direct relationship which we'd never had before.

"And we now have over 30 former players on our books working for us. We never had that either.

"The bottom line is the coaches and the players are getting on with the business and they're getting the results and we're seeing that."

© 2010 AA

ace ventura
05-28-2010, 05:51 AM
Oh so ... IF YOU ARE 17 or 18 YEARS OLD WE WONT FUND JUNIOR TENNIS FOR YOU....

MMMm thats why AIS ( only fully funded program are taking Kubler 17 and Duckworth 18 , to the french open juniors not to metnion the other junior tournaments they have played of late.

No wonder people laugh at TA. They tell so many lies , they cant remember what their last policy was. yet they expect people to go to their programs and pay for them.

Yet they expect to get a return of top 100 players, when all they do is dick players around.

It is clear looking at these two articles, 6mths apart , that they have no friggin idea what they are doing.

Who are these 30 former players working with right at this moment and where .......... does any one know ?

Tenys4r
05-28-2010, 06:20 AM
Besides their massive inconsistencies with players and criteria - i thought we were going to the blue courts? Isn't that what that poor club in, was it Taralgon? (mentioned in 4 corners program), fundraising madly for as they were told they couldn't hold the tournament if they didn't have Blue courts? What the hell is going on? Blue? Clay? How about a mixture of both at the discretion of the owners of the courts. I cannot believe we were ever going to go to blue when we are sending kids overseas to play on clay courts which is what years ago all we had! My god - they change their mind so often

ace ventura
05-28-2010, 07:12 AM
One things for sure , looking at these two articles six mths apart it doesnt look like the davis cup coach and captain are on the same page.

I find it interesting Hopper can make a comment about the best group he has seen, wasn't he well away from the sport for around three years . So how can he make judgment on
this .

It is one big confusing federation if you ask me. very hard to follow indeed. No wonder so many players have quit or gone to college, there really is not real pathway to follow , no solid structure that stays in place , and certainly no place for long term development . The many players that were 14 and 15 and 16 when Tiley came in , that ended up with no where to go at 18 and 19 and 20 ,are testament to that.

ace ventura
05-28-2010, 08:20 AM
We have 3,427 players on the Aus rankings list, Tiley has direct contact with 2,500 coaches, we have 30 ex players employed, we have goodness knows how many working in admin,
yet how many players are funded, how many get toured or have been allocated coaches. ? How many players doing well are ripped away from their local coaches if they want tours or funding?

But Again we have to be patient ,how many articles over the past six years have dsaid that, as this time the likes of Kubler and Tomic ( 2 players ) may not come through till they are 24 such is the mens game today.

Who said the likes of these players wont come through earlier or later, who is so sure they wont finish with injury such is the terrible statistics on players who succumb to that.

All players are human after all.


Instead of celebrating the stocks we have they divide and divide and divide them based on age, ranking , game styles and only tout those in their own programs.

If they want to have any depth at all how can they afford to continue to do that.

Tenys4r
05-29-2010, 09:56 PM
"I have a direct relationship with 2500 coaches, a direct relationship which we'd never had before."

Wow, 2500 coaches! Tiley must be flat out with that - how the hell does he hold down two of the most important jobs in tennis - surely it would take a lot of work to be in a "direct relationship" with 2,500 coaches!

Glad it isn't Woodbridge - he couldn't even remember the the names of half a dozen players in a squad let alone 2,500! lol

Wrong Direction
06-01-2010, 07:16 AM
On the women's side it has taken Sam Stosur until the age of 25-26 to hit her straps. She was at AIS back in 2000. Doesn't this send a message to the management at TA that it can take a player some time to reach their potential. What happens in mens tennis is that TA screw with you at the age of 18-20 and discard you on a rubbish dump in pursuit of their youth policy. If they were gold prospectors they'd be discarding all the small nuggets in pursuit of the pot of gold, not realising that a number of small nuggets could give them their pot of gold in the long run.

ace ventura
06-01-2010, 11:11 AM
Oh wrong direction how right you are...

grandlam1959
09-26-2010, 12:42 AM
Australia's recent Davis Cup loss to Belgium that puts them back to the peanut gallery competition that includes New Zealand must certainly warrant questions on the current State of Men's Tennis and for that fact the Junior Development program.Sam Stosur has saved Australian Tennis further scrutiny along with imports Groth and Rodionova.Look Deeper into the Women's game and it is worse than the men's.No Junior girl representatives in the last grandslam tournament of the year and a poor showing at Junior Wimbledon by the girls gives us a glimpse of what is in store for the future and its NOT GOOD!Lleyton Hewitt is literally on his last legs and those under him are just not up to a high level in Men's Tennis.Ball was a disaster and Peter Luczak has hovered around the 100's for some time and he is also at the end of his career. So which Australian Male could restore pride in Australian tennis.Davis Cup Captain John Fitzgerald was upbeat. ''These are tough situations that they haven't faced a lot,'' Fitzgerald said of his young charges such as the 23-year-old Ball.C'mon Fitzy Nadal at 24 has numerous grandslam titles under his belt. And what tough situations are you going to get at 151 in the world?How long do you think it will take a player like Ball to achieve this experience! I am sure the Davis Cup Captain will soon be replaced , however its not his fault and the next Captain will also find the cupboards bare and we are not moving into the Main World Group Davis Cup in the near future.


Lets Look at the current rankings









Lleyton Hewitt | 37
Peter Luczak| 129
Carsten Ball | 151
Matt Ebden | 164
Marinko Matosevic | 166
Bernard Tomic | 219
John Millman | 229
Greg Jones | 229
Nick Lindahl | 242
Brydan Klein | 260

Take out Hewitt... who then in the above group will come through,In my mind the only player that has a chance is Bernard Tomic who turns 18 soon.His form has not been anything special and is playing currently in Thailand.I can remember watching Tomic and Grigor Dimitrov play each other at Junior Wimbledon and thinking Tomic just does not posses any major weapon whilst the Bulgarian was a shot maker.Dimitrov has just won his third challenger in a row and is now around 142 in the World and rising! Group all the others in the same boat unfortunately I cant see anyone in the above list making top 100 outside Tomic. Pat Rafter had this to say about current Junior tennis "Rafter said there was no secret answer to ending Australia's decline and suggested, if anything, Tennis Australia was pampering the up-and-coming juniors. ''One thing I'm really jamming down the kids' throats is that we've got to make it tougher for them, they've got to toughen up as well and there are ways to do that" he went on to say "By giving them everything, it's not helping to find solutions. If we give them a tough situation where they are on their own for a few months with no coach, no nothing and make them do it tough in Europe, you've got to find different solutions and ways of getting around it. ''It's just life skills to me that these kids could take into their game as well and, when they are on the court, they've got to tough it out for themselves and not have someone tell them what to do all the time.'' Yep Pat you have some Merit in what you say but really Life skills begins at home and that's where the kids have it too easy!!! Ben Mitchell ,James Duckworth and Jason Kubler are some of the teenagers touted to come through.......but I ask come through to where? the 100-150 mark?When you see Juniors like Dimitrov who is coached by an Aussie Peter McNamara then one has little hope for our current juniors. The current challengers in Australia is really just a competition for the locals ...yes some points for rankings but not a true picture where you sit in the World.I was reading the Tennis news boards and someone made this statement commenting on the Aussie guys "That last comment raises the old chestnut of why Tennis Australia can't get the promising youngsters - Klein, Jonesie, Lindahl (all Junior Grand Slam Winners or Finalists/Top 10 Juniors) - to make the transition between the Juniors and Seniors. I still think there is potential for these players to break into and stay in the top 100, given the average age of players in the top 100 is over 25 years old."...Basically Itf junior rankings are Mickey Mouse.Look at American Jack Sock who was unseeded for this years USOPEN junior event and won it....its no guarantee if you have a high ITF junior ranking that you will make it with the big boy's it probably means that your Parents can afford sending you all over the World to places like Egypt and Serbia to gain inflated points that for most looks good on the ITF junior rankings list but means nothing when you enter the pro events.Rafter has the right track we all need to toughen up!! how we can do that is another question.. Unfortunately for Aussie Tennis it wont be oi oi oi it will be OH OH OH for a few years to come!
http://steve1959.blogspot.com/

RustyOz
09-26-2010, 09:07 AM
With respect to the Davis Cup loss to Belgium and LLeyton carrying the burden, perhaps questions should be asked why he played the doubles. A player who has recently been plagued by injury and has had little court time recently is asked to potentially play three five set matches. Hanley and Ball (who has had a lot of success with Gooch lately) could have played against the Belgiums, who did not have great doubles records, leaving Lleyton to play only the singles, lessening his load and potential to breakdown.
As good as Rochus is at singles, he struggles in the doubles - a first round loss at the Australian Open to Greg Jones/Kaden Hensel an example of that.
Perhaps TA did not do their homework well enough and played the wrong strategy. A win for Ball/Hanley in the dubs would have left Lleyton fresh for the singles.

ace ventura
10-21-2010, 07:27 AM
Well it cant be much of a surprise where our Davis Cup team is these days when you think " Victoria alone ", had players 5 years ago in TA Programs such as

Steve Donald, Pat Nichols, James Lemke, Mark Verryth, Dayne Kelly, Andrew Thomas, Troy Smith, Marvin Barker , Marinko Matosevic, Jarryd Maher, Jordan Szabo, Christopher Young, Andrew Gregory, Jason Lee, Stephen Hoh, Sebastin Bell,

and yet 5 years on there is only two players, Andrew Whittington and Sean Berman ( USA, ? on ITF website ) ? in TA'S pinnacle training program the AIS .

This is not too mention the lack of development of girls and boys equally talented from other states.

So it is good Rafter and Roach have come on board, maybe talent like this wont be lost in the future to tennis politics, criteria's, youth policies , and for whatever CANT be good enough reason , to let go or loose players of this calibre from their programs ever again.

If they were world class programs as people say these players would be thriving with in them.

One thing is for sure TA have been very good at creating endless jobs in the past few years, but not so good at keeping or developing players it seems.

So yes it will be OH OH OH for a few years to come. !! Lets hope Rafter a Roach can turn it around.

grandlam1959
10-22-2010, 06:08 AM
Marvin Barker is now a New Zealander and Shaun Berman was a new zealander also....followed chris lewis to the usa ...then came came under the usa banner now australia ...........if thats what they have talent wise then OH OH OH

ace ventura
10-22-2010, 08:37 PM
Well TA obviously do think Berman as the talent and Chris Lewis must have done a good job as they overlooked a heap who were in TAs own programs
to give Berman the spot.

What i cant work out id why he is still playing under USA on the itf website yet played aus open juniors under AUS, and gets an AIS spot.

But then whatever they had 16 young birds in their hands and now out of that whole group and more they have two.

ace ventura
11-26-2010, 09:57 AM
Tennis Australia can keep on saying this young group is the best group they have had in 20 years, but you could also say it is the only group they funded and toured and coached intensively , and it looks like that UNLIKE the last group it will be long term . Wow long term development, well about time.

This does not mean they were better than the last group nor more talented, it just magnifies, that it will take another five years , on top of the last five years they said it would take,,,, because of all the talent they ruthlessly dropped. many at 18 considered too old, what a joke.

So good luck to TA, as "wheres teddy "says Tomic will be top 50 next year and they have the best ever crop, but at what cost,?
look at the current state of Davis Cup and all the wonderful talented players they just dropped , all for their sweeping youth policy reform.

The past five/ six years has been a mass culling of good players by those responsible at TA , and that will not be forgot .

ace ventura
11-30-2010, 08:42 AM
Add to this Lindahl ......has gone. Oh what a waste.

Another one bites the Aussie Dust. That is Tennis in Australia these days.

ace ventura
12-01-2010, 09:07 PM
More bad publicity for the mens game, re the players banned from playoff.

It seems that having five National Academies, a cast of hundreds employed , and yet TA choose the newspapers to " send a very strong message to its players"

It is nothing more than embarrassing and degrading for Aus Mens tennis and all involved reading these articles and the endless stream of drama in newspapers that have come out of TA in recent years.

As these articles can also read as " TA'S own serial mismanagement of these players " that they selected themselves years ago to groom and develop.

By highlighting these players and their problems they are only highlighting their own.

jmf07
01-09-2011, 12:58 PM
It's the Australian summer again and something that is once again confusing the sh*t out of me is why Woodbridge as the director of mens tennis is allowed to continue commentating for Channel 7 in particular when the match features no Australian male but yet there are Australian male players involved in matches on the outside courts at the same time? This weekend he is in Brisbane whilst the Australian contingent are in Sydney most using it as their last chance to stake a claim for an AO wildcard. Then in Brisbane there were multiple occasions where you would hear him commentating some WTA match whilst at the same time there was an Aussie male player involved in a different match. It's extraordinary and one would think if it was so important to keep channel 7 happy couldn't he strike up an arrangement where his commentating duties would not force him to miss important matches that he as the director of mens tennis should be watching? Anyone got any explanation for this?

jmf07
01-11-2011, 02:43 AM
What a joke. Gooch beats three opponents all of whom will be in the AO main draw and is giving Garcia Lopez a good run for his money and should have won the first set. But Ball gets it because he finished the year in woeful form, lost to Feeney in the wildcard playoff and then had two loses in Qualies with one to Przysieny who the Gooch came out and beat the next day. Part of me hopes Gooch loses today and participates in Qualies but then a part of me wants Gooch to go on one of his runs so the Ausralian public become aware of what a joke it is that a guy like Woodbridge can make such decisions whilst not attending hardly any matches because he is too busy as the director of mens tennis in Australia commentating on WTA matches and ATP matches involving no Australians.

Crow_Boy
01-11-2011, 05:56 AM
Yes this is my first time posting on the aus thread. For me Guccione should have been picked ahead of Ball but a good decision picking Tomic. Seen as Bernie has a very good chance on making the second round in sydney.

But still would of been great to see Ben Mitchell or Luke Saville recieve a wildcard and draw a Fed or Rafa on Rod Laver Arena.

scotthongkong
01-11-2011, 08:28 AM
What a joke. Gooch beats three opponents all of whom will be in the AO main draw and is giving Garcia Lopez a good run for his money and should have won the first set. But Ball gets it because he finished the year in woeful form, lost to Feeney in the wildcard playoff and then had two loses in Qualies with one to Przysieny who the Gooch came out and beat the next day. Part of me hopes Gooch loses today and participates in Qualies but then a part of me wants Gooch to go on one of his runs so the Ausralian public become aware of what a joke it is that a guy like Woodbridge can make such decisions whilst not attending hardly any matches because he is too busy as the director of mens tennis in Australia commentating on WTA matches and ATP matches involving no Australians.

I agree completely. Guccione should have got that wild card for sure. If not him John Millman. Ball does not deserve it at all. What a waste of a wild card! He has done absolutely nothing........but he has good association with Tennis Australia with his friendship with John Fitzgerald. TA is all about who you know and favouritism.....except for the love of Tomic

Territory
01-11-2011, 08:43 AM
Didn't Carsten get both the FO WC and US Open WC last year??

ace ventura
01-12-2011, 03:33 AM
I agree completely. Guccione should have got that wild card for sure. If not him John Millman. Ball does not deserve it at all. What a waste of a wild card! He has done absolutely nothing........but he has good association with Tennis Australia with his friendship with John Fitzgerald. TA is all about who you know and favouritism.....except for the love of Tomic

yeah and what about Feeney ? Wheres his qually w/c. Bull crap youth policy at work again.

Nothing like living in the present is there, no that is way to smart for TA, they are just too good at predicting the future and getting it right, that's why Aus Tennis is doing so well !!

Who got the qually w/cs ? The players that deserved them from the AO play off ?
How much $$$ have TA spent on Tomic, at the expense of depth . ?
most players in this country have received sweet F ALL.
So what if Tomic is top 50 next year as Todd says , it will also highlight how many we could have had up there , if they had all been treated so well.

It is ALL about who knows who, and until that changes we can all just watch the down wood spiral continue, I think it is GREAT people vent on here and let it be heard.

Even if TA do nothing about it. it will be written here in the history of Australian Tennis what these coaches were quite happy to turn a blind to .

It will show the average tennis punter seems to recognise the form of its current players better than those running the show do.
That most Australian's want the best for Aus tennis.

It is sickening , year after year.

ace ventura
01-12-2011, 04:04 AM
I wreckon the AFL clubs would do a great job of running tennis in AUSTRALIA,

They would provide affordable training for all juniors at lots of venues.
They would allow appreciate imput from outside coaches and parents when selected into their systems.
They would select players for the aus Open ( like grandffinal ) on current form, not predictions of who will be great in years to come, or based on age .
Imagine abbott , and lockett retiring being to old and knocked back on form for that. So many guys are older and fit enough to play football !!
AFl is not back and sides square , and may have read more than a book on tennis to understand teenagers and their behaviour.
They do not slander their players or call them bad eggs in newspapers, or drop them for this, they work with players who make mistakes , push boudry's,and even those who have problems , they may even recognise this is part of growing up in the first place, so back their players. stick up for them, and get help for them when they need it.

They honor players who retire, all those, not just ones who won slams or had the greatest results.
They market the game and most of their players, not just a handful.
There is a full deck of player cards.
AFL celebrate player personalities not just the personalities that suit them.
They have player's trip where players can let their hair down and have fun, they recognise players are not ROBOTS.
There are so many reasons why AFL thrives , and why there is so much angst in tennis in Australia.

Tenys4r
01-12-2011, 11:00 AM
It's the Australian summer again and something that is once again confusing the sh*t out of me is why Woodbridge as the director of mens tennis is allowed to continue commentating for Channel 7 in particular when the match features no Australian male but yet there are Australian male players involved in matches on the outside courts at the same time? This weekend he is in Brisbane whilst the Australian contingent are in Sydney most using it as their last chance to stake a claim for an AO wildcard. Then in Brisbane there were multiple occasions where you would hear him commentating some WTA match whilst at the same time there was an Aussie male player involved in a different match. It's extraordinary and one would think if it was so important to keep channel 7 happy couldn't he strike up an arrangement where his commentating duties would not force him to miss important matches that he as the director of mens tennis should be watching? Anyone got any explanation for this?

So good to hear jmf07 that i am not the only one that thinks that this is incomprehensible. This is the man that selects wildcards and he was nowhere to be seen out there today - all the boys who he has "granted" wildcards into qualifying and there was not a selector to be seen. Too busy with his WTA commentating commitments - how professional is that! I seem to recall him last year floundering to name the players names in the program - probably the same this year!

ace ventura
01-22-2011, 12:25 AM
Yeah Tomic has made third round and lucky it is at night or if a player needed a TA coach they prob wouldn't find one while that match is on
The Hype will be out of control and while it is exciting to have a player get that far it is also bitter sweet
For me and many it further exposes what a failure these national academies and the system is
having watched an age group that pushed Tomic to the brink ,some who beat him that are all now but gone!
Those who sure did not as juniors win 3 orange bowls as they did not have the cash nor the parents with the
Know how! This shows that if a player can stay with his own choice of coach rather than be subjected to TA system of musical coach chairs
Be funded and believed in that results will come
so we have the top juniors in the world what? Based on rankings ? based on one or two junior slam results ?
based on Davis cup teams or is it based on our 18s Nationals, which surprisingly are timed to be on during
The orange bowl! Why our juniors are not exposed to that tournament is interesting as looking atbTomic the experience
Of playing such a big tournament certainly must have helped him handle big events

So yes while it is great he has made third round it should be asked HOW and WHY
When not so long ago there was hardly a gap between him and a whole heap of boys
This was AUSTRALIAS DEPTH THAT DID NOT NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER 5,10, 15
YEARS !!!

John Tomic apparently on a bus at a junior tournament told all the kids they would be nothing more
Than college players and the man is smart ! As that's where today most of these players just as talented as Tomic are
So while I am happy Aus has Tomic going well I ask where did the funding for the others go ?

I also hope every TA coach can stand up and not let this be the legacy of Aus tennis again
It is every ones responsibility to do so if they love not only the game of tennis but their country man
we are not living in a third world country if it means loosing your cushy TA job to care for the game and the players
And change this red tape tangled up system then they may actually be more players , therefor more cash and jobs

If this system does not open up from the blinkered ,shallow ,and selfish rule of control
We will be again celebrating maybe one or two men ONLY for a very very very long time!

Dmitry Verdasco
01-24-2011, 09:11 PM
Did anyone hear Hack on triple j yesterday? They had a segment on Tennis Australia and it's failings, had Newcombe and Luke Saville as well as some TA bigwig. Newk rated Australian tennis a 4/10 :rolls: TOO HIGH!

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/ << It'll be there somewhere.

Nothing really groundbreaking, just whinging about no talent or depth. Says they now have the right structure in place to nurture talent (Hot Shots :rolleyes:) that they didn't have 5, 10 years ago so that's why there's no talent.

Tennis Australia has NEVER been weaker. Womens side is okay but only because of imports. Realistically, our best females are Stosur (TOP 10), Groth (TOP 20) Molik, Dokic, Rodionova and Dellacqua who could all be TOP 50. They're all older. The new crop show promise then fade away. Wejnert, Holland, Rogowska, Moore are all on the slide. Letcher, Patterson and Peers are on the up now, but we'll see them follow the same trend eventually. Peers is a fucking fudgeball! Get these players as fit as possible and then thats one less thing that they can fail at!

Men's I have no idea but the TA guy mentioned Ben Mitchell as one of the brightest prospects along with Kubler, Duckworth and Saville and no offence to him but apart from junior Wimbly he hasn't done THAT much. I'm a fan of him though.


1) These players need to be given TA help and WC's through RESULTS and NOT PROMISE.
2) MORE CLAY COURTS
3) Better transition from juniors to seniors, or stop them playing juniors by 16 or 17 at the latest.
4) Utilise the training base in Spain and have the play the ITF's over there and learn what level world tennis is really at. Aus ITFs are weak as shit.
5) Make our players the fittest and strongest the world has to offer.

Matchu
01-24-2011, 10:15 PM
I just returned from my trip to Melbourne Park and I noticed some things about Woodbridge and Australian tennis in general. First off Woodbridge is employed by channel 7, they pay him to commentate and do some interviews. It isn't as much work as people think. I noticed Woodbridge was in attendance for the Matosevic round 1 against Berankis. Woodbridge IS getting out there and watching these players in their matches but I think it is really unfair to expect Todd to go to every single match that an Australian is playing in, there will always be some TA representative in attendance for the Australians so that is not really a concern. Woodbridge is like a scape goat at the moment, everyone wants to blame him in when in reality he isn't doing much wrong.

Dmitry Verdasco the problem with what your saying above is:
1. TA can't afford to keep giving wildcards to 30 year olds or people in their late 20s. The USTA has a wildcard rule in place for the US Open, if you are over 23 you don't get a wildcard. I think that system is a good one because once you are over 23 if your not ranked in the top 250 and trying to qualify you probably aren't going to make the big time anyway.

2. I agree 100%, clay courts have been proven as the best way to nature talent into the tennis world. Problem is TA doesn't own every club in Australia. At the end of the day it is the club's decision as to whether or not they want clay courts, not TA's decision. TA offers incentive packages for them to do it but realistically they cannot force them.

3. Perhaps stopping juniors at 16 or 17 is a good idea, Spain seems to do that with most of their juniors but lets look at the logistics of the situation for Australians. How many of our juniors actually have a ranking at 16? it is quite low, maybe 3 if we are lucky and even then they aren't ranked high enough to get direct acceptance into futures. Australia only holds 11 futures in the year so for the other 41 weeks of the year where is the money coming from to send these 16 years olds all over the world to play? TA can only support so many players, they aren't made of money. Realistically Australia can't afford to do that unless they are awarded more future tournaments in the year.

4. Now this one I think is doable, Kubler spent a lot of last year in Spain and played a lot of Euro futures and it seemed to really help him a lot. One issue could be that the player who trains in Spain should have an ATP ranking before he/she goes over there otherwise they may not receive entry into any of the future tournament.

5. The AIS training facilities are world class, our players are certainly not at a disadvantage in that sense. In reality pretty much every tennis player inside the top 200 have around the same fitness level, it is the mental side that separates them and then of course there is always talent that makes a player better than the other as well, but you can't teach that. What I'm trying to say is that the fitness is not a problem for our players.

ace ventura
01-25-2011, 01:01 AM
When Tiley got into power around six years ago he had a strong group of 15 /16 year olds there was a very strong group who got mucked around nonstop with switching of coaches while training at home and on some tours which were heavily paid for by parents coaches were changed throughout tours and kids were getting conflicting coaching

Not too mention some of these boys were ATP ranked at 17 tried out for AIS yet did not get in?
Not to mention a large portion of players who do get in get dropped , even after being injured while in the AIS system or maybe for lack of results who knows!
but if there selection is so right in the first place when choosing the players why drop them so fast ??

There used to bemire squads and these were just as good as hotshots!

What I can't work out is why everyone says we need a larger player base and yet they kick so many out along the way

A player base in spain is great but should reopen for any aus players that gets their are over there why use it for a few who end up kicked out anyway till they pick up the next lot ?

How can they ever have death if they don't work with death ?

As for woodbrigdge wasn't he going to be the Davis cup coach yet he seems to be more concerned with the juniors from what I have heard

Is there a touring group with the older guys, what's he point of guys getting up to 2 or 300 and then they can't get the support to
Get to the next point yet the past two years they are fully dun ding kids with no ATP points at all and then dropping a heap of them

I agree wood bridge can't fix everything however who can open this up si players can at least be funded to use their own coach like tomic did?

That is the biggest screw up here, there is good Ta coaches yet even they have to see kids go if the youth policy says so how much must that piss them off if they were thinking long term with a player,

Iknow a kid who worked with a coach outside of TA and was doing really well then when that coach got employed by Ta the kid was told he would have to pay $100 dollars to work with that coach at Melbourne park what a joke that was more then they had to pay outside yet this kid came into squads

TA are not supporting enough players but making a business out f players and while parents are forking out a lot of these guys like woddbridge are making a mint!

I am sorry but the system is not for players but for a few they think will make it through and if you ask me it is very risky business doing that with such a tiny crop half these kids haven't even matured ,

The youth policy and the criterias are all set up for who they want and that is just ridiculous it kills half of them in confidence before they
Get a real chance

sorry but I do not see this working the way it is we have to most talented hardworking players in the world but the reason they are not mentally strong is because of the red tape and bullshit that goes on how many can be dropped moved from their coach and not take a mental backslide?

if TA want a strong player base then they should be prepared to work more than a few of them long term they have the bucks!
till they let players stay with the coach they may have started with they will not get players through,
look how many of the top players had a coach or parent with them for years and years,

ace ventura
01-25-2011, 01:07 AM
Quote above

Meant MILO SQUADS

And meant work with depth if you want depth not death !! KEY on computer screwed

This is all a good debate anyway but will never understand why TA can hold the BUCKS and the POWER and how one man can make such
Strict criteria whe kids mature at different paces

Dmitry Verdasco
01-25-2011, 02:39 AM
Matchu I'm not saying our WC's have to go to Australians.

AO for example
USO WC exchange
WIM WC exchange
RG WC exhange
Rogers Cup WC exchange
AUS WC
AUS WC
AUS WC

QWC's...
4 for Aussies
4 exchanges with Italy, Spain, Japan and China for WCs or QWCs into masters 1000's and 500 in Tokyo.


Make sure the aussies that do show the results do get the opportunities. The WC's all summer in the ATP events should be enough for them to prove themselves. you can't say more than 7 australians are capable of success at grand slams that are outside the ranking cutoff. the exchanges can be cut down when/IF? more talent comes through.

Dmitry Verdasco
01-25-2011, 02:40 AM
sick of seeing petulant girls liek ROgowska and marshmallows like Peers collect a $20K first round AO losers check simply for being LESS SHIT than the other girls there age.

jmf07
01-25-2011, 04:33 AM
I just returned from my trip to Melbourne Park and I noticed some things about Woodbridge and Australian tennis in general. First off Woodbridge is employed by channel 7, they pay him to commentate and do some interviews. It isn't as much work as people think. I noticed Woodbridge was in attendance for the Matosevic round 1 against Berankis. Woodbridge IS getting out there and watching these players in their matches but I think it is really unfair to expect Todd to go to every single match that an Australian is playing in, there will always be some TA representative in attendance for the Australians so that is not really a concern. Woodbridge is like a scape goat at the moment, everyone wants to blame him in when in reality he isn't doing much wrong.

Dmitry Verdasco the problem with what your saying above is:
1. TA can't afford to keep giving wildcards to 30 year olds or people in their late 20s. The USTA has a wildcard rule in place for the US Open, if you are over 23 you don't get a wildcard. I think that system is a good one because once you are over 23 if your not ranked in the top 250 and trying to qualify you probably aren't going to make the big time anyway.

2. I agree 100%, clay courts have been proven as the best way to nature talent into the tennis world. Problem is TA doesn't own every club in Australia. At the end of the day it is the club's decision as to whether or not they want clay courts, not TA's decision. TA offers incentive packages for them to do it but realistically they cannot force them.

3. Perhaps stopping juniors at 16 or 17 is a good idea, Spain seems to do that with most of their juniors but lets look at the logistics of the situation for Australians. How many of our juniors actually have a ranking at 16? it is quite low, maybe 3 if we are lucky and even then they aren't ranked high enough to get direct acceptance into futures. Australia only holds 11 futures in the year so for the other 41 weeks of the year where is the money coming from to send these 16 years olds all over the world to play? TA can only support so many players, they aren't made of money. Realistically Australia can't afford to do that unless they are awarded more future tournaments in the year.

4. Now this one I think is doable, Kubler spent a lot of last year in Spain and played a lot of Euro futures and it seemed to really help him a lot. One issue could be that the player who trains in Spain should have an ATP ranking before he/she goes over there otherwise they may not receive entry into any of the future tournament.

5. The AIS training facilities are world class, our players are certainly not at a disadvantage in that sense. In reality pretty much every tennis player inside the top 200 have around the same fitness level, it is the mental side that separates them and then of course there is always talent that makes a player better than the other as well, but you can't teach that. What I'm trying to say is that the fitness is not a problem for our players.

I agree with most of what you said except for the first two points.

IMO Woodbridge should be out there watching matches. For some players this will be one of the few opportunities he has to watch these players before they go overseas. Delegating the task to someone else whilst he goes off commentating for channel 7 is unacceptable for a Director of Mens Tennis. If he wants to commentate for Channel 7 then his role as a wildcard selector should be revoked and either Rafter gets given the full responsibility or more preferably someone else helps Rafter out.

As for the wildcards and an age limit I don't think it is a right step. If they are ranked outside the top 300 and are in their mid twenties then it is reasonable for them not to expect a wildcard. But if they are ranked inside the top 300 and their results warrant a wildcard then they should be given one. The amount of players in their late twenties now cracking the ATP tour after years of grinding away on the Challenger tour shows you that these players cannot be discarded. Plus an age limit IMO is not a smart idea purely because every player develops at a different rate.

Wrong Direction
01-25-2011, 10:49 AM
sick of seeing petulant girls liek ROgowska and marshmallows like Peers collect a $20K first round AO losers check simply for being LESS SHIT than the other girls there age.

You forgot to mention Sophie Ferguson, 6 wildcards to AO, need I say anymore, check out her results. He meltdown this tear was embarrassing to watch. Peers mother was player development manager or similar at Tennis Victoria for years, given an easy run since she was 12. Mother moved on from Tennis Vic once Sally's career was up and running. Sean Berman now rammed down our throat still USA listed it only takes 24 hours to change nationality if you are fair dinkum. A top 10 ITF junior ranking can be gained if you have enough money. 4 years ago TA had a fair few good juniors who had ATP points then for some bizarre reason they had them go back and do grade 1/2 ITF junior tournaments, what was the point.
They could have pushed their ATP rankings to 500-700 at 17-18, which would then have given them a platform to play challengers. Who really gives a shit about the junior tournaments, it certainly doesn't earn you any money or cover expenses. Somehow TA has got caught up in having top juniors they then given coverage to whilst disregarding a heap of guys aged 18-23 who are the ones that should be assisted because they have made the costly decision to try and grind out a living from the game they love. Having top juniors just justifies the administrators youth policy. What happens when the now 16-18 year olds aren't able to play juniors anymore? Will TA shaft them like they did to the present 1987-1991 age group?

Have a look at Austrian, MELZER 29 years old and he is playing his best tennis ever. It's taken him 10 years to go from 370 to 11 It wouldn't happen in Australia because the TA admin would have crushed a similar players confidence and will by that age. We are a country of late developers mainly due to location and pathetic player pathway management. The administrators have failed to realise for years that tennis is a cut throat world game now. They are living in the past when the AO was merely a national championship.

ace ventura
01-25-2011, 01:22 PM
Woodbridge is the head of mens tennis now yet is choosing to fill his back pocket via channel 7 over choosing to watch the players he
Was employed to develop that is a given that it is wrong it is not like he is getting paid peanuts for doing this job for the players of Australia

Secondly as far as TA not having the bucks to look after everyone does any one know how many people TA employ and what that costs

Compared to what they are spending on tour g players?

The fact is there is no tours for any e I er 18 other than the handful of AIS guys

Yes KUBLER works in Spain for most of the year that is one player what is thenTA player budget ?

Yeah and why are so many of the older girls getting support when then older guys are tipped out ? Eg molic and sophie etc I am not against these girls but why such different set of rules for men

How many coaches exactly does any one know do TA employ ? That there is this youth policy and thenoldernguys are tippedmout

If you look back at eg 12s nationals 7or 8 years ago and go through the players draw there is one at most two being supported now out of a draw of 64 and add in qually
So TA have always had a big player base but by only looking at the youth they are not counting the cost of kidsnwho move to other sports
Along the way or whose parents are not com itted or kids who are not passionate enough to go on

Yet they are quite happy to disgard the ones who are committed and passionate for the long term being arrogant enough to totally disregard these players who do keep going at a great cost to their families just to be dropped fornyouth policy

Another huge problem is the mateship that goes on within TA re players eg one coach does not like a player and then mates will back this coach rather then give thenplayer the benefit of the doubt
There is mounting eveidence That any player family or coach outside of TA who questions TA head guys or disagrees with them may well get overlooked ,
TA very much like control and it goes way beyond tennis it goes right into personalities which is so wrong

While they say they are open to constructive impute they are not and it should not matter what way it comes across they shouls be listening
And they do not
Their stubbornness and our way or the highway is why we have few men in the top 100 I do not know why they think starting with the you g
If ok or fair when with the budget they have they could have looked after p,ayers regard,ess of age

If they have the cash to open five national academies al for the youth then they should have had the foresight and the cash aside to get anbig group training in Spain notmjust their ti y handful many who again this year were dropped

grandlam1959
02-09-2011, 07:36 PM
Every body happy? Australian men's tennis on track? Recent results not inspiring for the future. Hows Tennis Australia really addressing the issue...To much Lip service by Woodbridge and co to ever produce a top 50 player .

ace ventura
02-22-2011, 12:31 AM
Spot on you are grand lam

These guys who made. Fortune you have to wonder how hungry they are !!

While so many players out on there own battling it out

So easy for TA to pick a few !!! Joke with the player budget they have got

Should have a heap in the top 50 !!

There is no excuse but bad bad player selection and management otherwise there would be results !

Dmitry Verdasco
02-22-2011, 09:19 AM
Ashleigh Barty isn't even 15 years old yet and just beat the #1 seed at Mildura $25K, and beat Arina Rodionova (also #1 seed) at a $25K late last year. NOT EVEN 15. Please don't fuck her up Tennis Australia. Send her to Melanie Molitor!

RustyOz
03-10-2011, 04:14 AM
Good to see four Australian males in the Main Draw of Indian Wells. Gooch, Marinko and Ebden qualified today and joined Lleyton.
Lets hope they can progress past the first round.
Go you Aussies.
The Aussie coaches were there in attendance - Woodforde with Ebden and Marinko, Woodbridge with Jonesie (and Gooch & Groth I think). Was Joshua Eagle with LLeyton?

Chris.
03-10-2011, 04:21 AM
Good to see four Australian males in the Main Draw of Indian Wells. Gooch, Marinko and Ebden qualified today and joined Lleyton.
Lets hope they can progress past the first round.
Go you Aussies.
The Aussie coaches were there in attendance - Woodforde with Ebden and Marinko, Woodbridge with Jonesie (and Gooch & Groth I think). Was Joshua Eagle with LLeyton?

Actually 5 Tomic is in the main draw aswell.

RustyOz
03-10-2011, 08:31 PM
Actually 5 Tomic is in the main draw aswell.

Yeah - forgot the WC, even better!

Dmitry Verdasco
03-11-2011, 05:46 AM
Stosur is TOP 5 and Groth and Dokic both have WTA titles this season. Time to have a proper go at the Fed Cup title again! AND TIME TO CAPITALIZE ON A RISING INTEREST IN TENNIS! GET THE SCOUTS OUT THERE AND FIND SOME TALENT!

RustyOz
06-14-2011, 10:27 PM
In the article on Sophie Ferguson in the TA magazine Australian Tennis, they used journalistic license to note that Sophie was the No. 2 ranked "Austrlalian born" ranked female player in Oz.

So got to thinking, after LLeyton, who is the male equivalent player: (based on rankings this week 13/6/11)
Marinko Matosevic - born in Jajce, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Matt Ebden - born in Durban, South Africa
Bernard Tomic - born in Stuttgart, Germany
Peter Luczack - born in Warsaw, Poland
Carsten Ball - born in Newport Beach, CA, USA
Greg Jones - born in Sydney, Australia ;)

So currently ranked 222, Greg Jones is the second ranked "Australian Born" player in Australia.

Closely followed by James Lemke, then Chris Guccione (both born in Melbourne).

Dmitry Verdasco
06-15-2011, 07:11 AM
In the article on Sophie Ferguson in the TA magazine Australian Tennis, they used journalistic license to note that Sophie was the No. 2 ranked "Austrlalian born" ranked female player in Oz.

So got to thinking, after LLeyton, who is the male equivalent player: (based on rankings this week 13/6/11)
Marinko Matosevic - born in Jajce, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Matt Ebden - born in Durban, South Africa
Bernard Tomic - born in Stuttgart, Germany
Peter Luczack - born in Warsaw, Poland
Carsten Ball - born in Newport Beach, CA, USA
Greg Jones - born in Sydney, Australia ;)

So currently ranked 222, Greg Jones is the second ranked "Australian Born" player in Australia.

Closely followed by James Lemke, then Chris Guccione (both born in Melbourne).

:rolls::rolls::rolls:

I remember Masur talking about Groth and Rodionova as though Australia bought them to boost their womens stocks like we were Kazakhstan or something. :rolleyes: I'd love to be in the commentators booth with him just to shut him the fuck up sometimes.

RustyOz
06-17-2011, 02:02 PM
A good laugh.
Headline on the Tennis Australia web-sie on the Wimbledon Draw:
Aussies handed tough Wimbledon draw. Stosur will begin her campaign against world No.262...
Wow - the depth of Women's tennis. Lol

The article goes on to say Stosur will meet Sharapova in the fourth round (a toughie)
but
Stosur has never even reached the fourth round at Wimbledon previously!!!

Let us get Sam to the fourth round first and then speculate on the toughness of that round...

Dmitry Verdasco
06-17-2011, 10:21 PM
I can't believe they're making out Stosur as our best chance here at Wimbledon :hysteric: She's made R3 once, R2 thrice and has been a R1 loser 4 TIMES!! She's almost as bad as Patty Schnyder on grass! Gajdosova is a bigger chance IMO, especially with her draw.

Dokic got a bad draw, but if she manages to get past Schiavone who knows? Playing Oprandi and Vinci back-to-back in Rosmalen is probably the best preparation for the Schiavone match though.

By they way! 3 Australian women in the TOP 50 next week! :woohoo:

RustyOz
06-17-2011, 11:09 PM
Three women in the top 50, that is great news. Go the Ladies...
Let the Men follow...

Dund
07-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Anyone follow the younger Aussie players at the moment? We have threads for players playing on the tour, but what about juniors?

Are there any players coming through in the 13-16 age bracket that have the talent to follow Tomic to potentially top 10? Kubler and Saville are talented, but I think they are more top 50 level players rather than top 10.

Matchu
07-17-2011, 05:36 PM
Anyone follow the younger Aussie players at the moment? We have threads for players playing on the tour, but what about juniors?

Are there any players coming through in the 13-16 age bracket that have the talent to follow Tomic to potentially top 10? Kubler and Saville are talented, but I think they are more top 50 level players rather than top 10.

The big juniors we have coming through at that level at the moment are Jay Andrijic (just won his 4th ITF junior 18u tournament in a row), Nick Kyrgios (currently ranked 90 in juniors, qualified for Wimbledon and made round 16 at the Aussie open) and of course Ash Barty on the female side who just won Wimbledon. There is talent there but probably need more exposure to senior events now seeing as junior results don't necessarily make a player. With the likes of Saville, Kubler, Tomic(both), Barty, Mitchell and hopefully Kyrgios and Andrijic I think we have a bright future ahead of us, we just need to keep focused on getting these younger kids out onto the mens and womens tour rather than keeping them in juniors until they turn 18.

RustyOz
07-18-2011, 09:53 PM
Hopefully TA will support the Juniors coming through better than they are their other top "senior" players. The only coach with the Aussies in Atlanta (Matosevic, Ebden and Jones) was Josh Eagle, and he was working for/with Lleyton.
So it looks like TA are putting their stock in the Juniors. You think TA would support the players ranked in the top 6 in Australia a bit better.

Dmitry Verdasco
07-19-2011, 06:48 AM
TA completely abandoned Monique Adamczak and Sophie Ferguson, and both really could have made the TOP 100. Now we have Rogowska, Peers and Holland hovering around the 150-250 mark, and Barty coming up. I hope they support these guys through to the TOP 100, even if they don't get there in a hurry, because they could all get there eventually no doubt.

Dundalis
07-20-2011, 12:33 PM
There was a pretty large contingent from TA at Barty's Wimbledon Final I believe. I think she will get significant support. She probably has a pretty good chance of being a top 10 level player depending on her physical development. Would have to be the most promising Aussie female player since Dokic.

I think TA are more interested in players they believe have the talent and potential to be Grand Slam winners as opposed to simply top 100 players.

RustyOz
07-20-2011, 09:41 PM
I think TA are more interested in players they believe have the talent and potential to be Grand Slam winners as opposed to simply top 100 players.

and that is why Tennis Australia only have one male top 100 player, as opposed to France, Spain, USA, etc.
All their eggs in one basket is perhaps not good, due to injuries, illness, not realising perceived potential...

Dmitry Verdasco
07-21-2011, 07:12 AM
There was a pretty large contingent from TA at Barty's Wimbledon Final I believe. I think she will get significant support. She probably has a pretty good chance of being a top 10 level player depending on her physical development. Would have to be the most promising Aussie female player since Dokic.

I think TA are more interested in players they believe have the talent and potential to be Grand Slam winners as opposed to simply top 100 players.

and that is why Tennis Australia only have one male top 100 player, as opposed to France, Spain, USA, etc.
All their eggs in one basket is perhaps not good, due to injuries, illness, not realising perceived potential...

That.

Dundalis
07-21-2011, 09:46 AM
While I agree in principal, I think it depends on the level of funding. From Tennis Australia's point of view, they would probably prefer to have two top 10 players in the fight for Grand Slams and the next best player ranked 200, rather than 4 or 5 top 100 players none of whom are genuine GS chances.

In some ways that's what we do best across all our sports. In no sport do we have great depth of talent, simply because our population and therefore pool of talent is so small. Yet our absolute elite athletes in a lot of sports tend to really be elite. I think you probably would prefer the latter situation than having good depth but no one at the top end. It's something TA obviously needs to find a balance with.

RustyOz
07-21-2011, 10:44 PM
It takes more than a few players to have a successful Davis Cup campaign. It will take a few years for those Junior players to be at DC standard, so TA will still need their "older" players to be successful.
Being in the top 6 or 10 of your sport (soccer, netball, water-polo, hockey, etc. etc. (not athletics maybe)) surely counts as being an "elite" player? TA needs to help these players to continue to progress and become the best, especially the younger ones. Ebden is only 24 this year, whilst Jonesie is 22, surely not at an age to be put on the "has-been" heap...
TA should be stepping up with dedicated coaches for these players. Give them some real help like they have given Tomic.

Dund
07-22-2011, 04:36 PM
It takes more than a few players to have a successful Davis Cup campaign. It will take a few years for those Junior players to be at DC standard, so TA will still need their "older" players to be successful.
Being in the top 6 or 10 of your sport (soccer, netball, water-polo, hockey, etc. etc. (not athletics maybe)) surely counts as being an "elite" player? TA needs to help these players to continue to progress and become the best, especially the younger ones. Ebden is only 24 this year, whilst Jonesie is 22, surely not at an age to be put on the "has-been" heap...
TA should be stepping up with dedicated coaches for these players. Give them some real help like they have given Tomic.
The players you mentioned are never going to be GS winners though, or likely ever get anywhere close. I think that's what TA wants. Future GS winners. Davis Cup is nice, but ultimately it's all about the Slams. Australia has a history of GS winners, and it's likely TA won't be happy until we once again have genuine contenders. The media will continue to heap pressure on them until we start producing that also. Helping players like Ebden and Jones become top 100 players rather than top 200 players would be lower on the priority list. TA needs something visible to show for their efforts, and a GS winner is visible, improving a player from a top 200 player to a top 100 player is not. And as nice as Davis Cup is for the country, I think TA would rather a couple Aussie GS winners than a Davis Cup victory. Even if those players didn't participate in Davis Cup like a lot of top players have done(in the mid to late part of their careers). The slams are what gets the genuine global attention.

jmf07
07-22-2011, 05:33 PM
Why do Tennis Australia feel the need to give Tomic so many resources though? Why give him so much financial support when he is already managed by IMG when the other guys are struggling to attract even sponsors? He already has enough funding and IMO more financial assistance should be directed to the guys that have top 100 potential who will get far greater use from it than pooling it all in the development in Tomic. That's not to mention the negative impact associated with too much support either. Eg Donald Young.

Dundalis
07-23-2011, 05:13 AM
Why do Tennis Australia feel the need to give Tomic so many resources though? Why give him so much financial support when he is already managed by IMG when the other guys are struggling to attract even sponsors? He already has enough funding and IMO more financial assistance should be directed to the guys that have top 100 potential who will get far greater use from it than pooling it all in the development in Tomic. That's not to mention the negative impact associated with too much support either. Eg Donald Young.
Maybe they felt if they didn't provide the support that he might not play for Australia? Who knows.

I think they would provide the same level of support to any player who shows the talent to potentially be a future GS winner. Perhaps they want to put more resources into the 13-16 age group, because that's where the crucial development comes that can be the difference between a solid tour player and a top 50+ player.

What's the level of support got to do with Donald Young's attitude? He's just a player with a bad attitude who doesn't want to put in the hard work. That's got nothing to do with support level, he just doesn't have the mentality to be a top level player.

RustyOz
07-24-2011, 04:13 AM
I have just been watching the German Open and the commentators made the point of how the crowds had been good at every session due to the participation of Germany's wealth of top 100 players, none of them GS winners.
I personally certainly would pay to see the same in Australia.
They also mentioned how the success of Spain's tennis is built upon the participation of their numerous top 100 players passing on their knowledge to the lower ranked and junior players, realising their obligation to the Spanish tennis association, and the plentiful number of tournaments in Spain throughout the year.
Something I would love to see in Australia...

RustyOz
08-17-2011, 02:54 AM
I say good luck to TA for a new profession clubs competition initiative, in which they are attempting to raise the profile of professional tennis in Australia.
One misgiving I have though is that the "National" league does not include NSW or QLD. Can hardly be called "National" then?

Dmitry Verdasco
08-17-2011, 07:52 AM
Ummm.... bitch say wut?

RustyOz
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
So who gets the WC into the US Open now the Hewitt has withdrawn?
Have heard that Marinko got the WC over Ebden.
Ebden rolled Lemke in 1st round qualies, Jonesie had good win over Odesnik.

Matchu
08-24-2011, 10:05 AM
It is pretty obvious what we need to improve Aussie tennis. At least one future every month and a challenger at least every three months. We currently have 11 or 12 futures (basically 9 or 10 consecutively) and two challengers one after the other. If we spread it out players could actually be domestically based and not have to worry about the traveling costs as much, which is basically what kills most careers. It'll be a long time before it happens though....

Territory
09-02-2011, 10:24 AM
Heya, wasn't sure where else to post this, but started a thread for the upcoming futures tournament in Alice Springs. Qualy Draw is out...

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=189303 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=189303)

jmf07
10-18-2011, 03:04 PM
Does anyone know what ever happened to Andrew Coehlo? A bit off topic but I didn't know where to post it and perhaps it has something to do with what has been discussed in this thread.

ozfan44
10-20-2011, 07:50 AM
Does anyone know what ever happened to Andrew Coehlo? A bit off topic but I didn't know where to post it and perhaps it has something to do with what has been discussed in this thread.

Not sure he was going out with one of the swedish female players that used to come out for the aussie challenger events...

Wrong Direction
10-24-2011, 11:31 AM
Does anyone know what ever happened to Andrew Coehlo? A bit off topic but I didn't know where to post it and perhaps it has something to do with what has been discussed in this thread.

Played for Grace Park in Victorian Premier League Last weekend, now working in real estate. A few players screwed over by TA admin and/or their youth policy played Premier League this year. Some high quality tennis was played.

ozfan44
10-24-2011, 04:43 PM
Played for Grace Park in Victorian Premier League Last weekend, now working in real estate. A few players screwed over by TA admin and/or their youth policy played Premier League this year. Some high quality tennis was played.

There would be a fair few decent players in that category!! :tape:

jmf07
10-24-2011, 08:58 PM
Played for Grace Park in Victorian Premier League Last weekend, now working in real estate. A few players screwed over by TA admin and/or their youth policy played Premier League this year. Some high quality tennis was played.

Thanks for the info. Shame to hear that there are a few of them playing there but it is good in Andrew's case that it seems as though he has been able to find a good job outside of tennis.