RG R2: Murray defeats Starace 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

RG R2: Murray defeats Starace 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4

rubbERR
05-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Starace choked 3rd set, and this match was booring.

rocketassist
05-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Fun match, probably the best of the tournament so far. Murray's forehand looked good. Starace was red hot for a set and a half before losing a big lead in the third.

Gattuso or LaLo next for him.

orangehat
05-27-2009, 12:56 PM
should have been a 5 setter at the very least. starace led *5-2 in the 3rd. :o. Murray won't make it past the 4th round if he continues playing like that (well he wasn't horrible it was just starace playing well for the 2nd set till 5-2 in the 3rd set)

Clydey
05-27-2009, 12:57 PM
Starace was playing absolutely out of his skin for a set and a half. He couldn't miss. Tartan Heart doesn't know when he's beaten, though. :shrug:

Too big from Murray in the end. Was striking the ball well.

rubbERR
05-27-2009, 12:57 PM
hey wait, why i am top of the thread? :D

NikolaBGD
05-27-2009, 12:57 PM
Clay Goat!!!

out_here_grindin
05-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Starace had a good game plan and played well. But he did what everyone does nowadays when they play top players, choke. Though Murray did step it up.

Fed Express
05-27-2009, 12:58 PM
"Fun match, probably the best of the tournament so far"

Please... Absolute awful match.. Murray played like crap and should have at least be down 2 sets to 1. Epic choke from Starace.

Terrible match.

Jaz
05-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Mugray

Byrd
05-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Dedicated to Halba :haha:

Good fighting spirit Muzza, but seriously need to be more consistent on the depth and topspin with the forehand.

Allez-Ollie
05-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Starace gave away the 3rd set. Major choke.
Kudos to Murray for hanging in there and taking it 4 sets.

Action Jackson
05-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Starace's dropshots were of the highest quality, he showed some of his old form in the 2nd and 3rd sets, but once he failed to close out the 3rd set, then there was no way Murray losing this at all.

Dunblane fought hard in the 3rd set and Starace got a bit passive as well as he is known to do when he has chances against the bigger players.

Murray would love LaLo as his next opponent.

rocketassist
05-27-2009, 12:59 PM
"Fun match, probably the best of the tournament so far"

Please... Absolute awful match.. Murray played like crap and should have at least be down 2 sets to 1. Epic choke from Starace.

Terrible match.

Er Starace was too good for him in that period, not Murray being shit. He wasn't that bad in that set and a half :shrug:

Potato head couldn't keep it up on a consistent level and that was the key. The winner to UE stats will be positive for both players I think.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
should have been a 5 setter at the very least. starace led *5-2 in the 3rd. :o. Murray won't make it past the 4th round if he continues playing like that (well he wasn't horrible it was just starace playing well for the 2nd set till 5-2 in the 3rd set)

Nothing wrong with how Murray played. He had a brief dip, but you have to credit Starace. He was playing a blinder. Murray ended up playing very well. He had to really.

Not sure who will beat him before the quarters.

finishingmove
05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
wut

terrible choke by starace, who was the better player out there.

CescAndyKimi
05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Murray upped his game...Starace was actually playing out of his skin. end of the day starace was playing the best tennis of his life..murray the worst...He'll iron out a few kinks...and be back to his attacking best ala chela. although he was a bit passive today, when he got slightly aggressive starace couldn't handle it. People saying murray won't make it past 4th round..didn't federer almost lose to berdych in the AO? Didn't he make final? stop talking shit.

Har-Tru
05-27-2009, 01:01 PM
Murray just cannot play clay tennis. Anytime he faces a clay courter his game is neutralised.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:02 PM
wut

terrible choke by starace, who was the better player out there.

Fuck you, Arsen. You're breaking my heart with these comments.

biological
05-27-2009, 01:02 PM
Tipsy won't choke :rocker2:

rocketassist
05-27-2009, 01:02 PM
Muzza's forehand is looking good this week so far.

Andi-M
05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Not bad from Murray despite the score. Starace was awesome in 2nd and 3rd really great coupled with Murray going off the boil bigtime.

The fightback was soo impresseive and his serve in the 4th was great!! really good test for him. Loads of positives, but some negatives too...he was embarassed by a few too many dropshots methinks....

Lopez
05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
This match really should've been a 5-setter IMO, Murray pushing the ball for a set and a half (didn't see the first set) but then started to play better as Starace's level went down at the end of the third.

CescAndyKimi
05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Also forgot to mention just how quality starace dropshots were...ANY player would have struggled against them. Cleverly disguised, efficient, and quick to die on the clay.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:04 PM
Starace's dropshots were of the highest quality, he showed some of his old form in the 2nd and 3rd sets, but once he failed to close out the 3rd set, then there was no way Murray losing this at all.

Dunblane fought hard in the 3rd set and Starace got a bit passive as well as he is known to do when he has chances against the bigger players.

Murray would love LaLo as his next opponent.

For a little while there I was thinking that Federer had the best drop shot on tour, on the rare occasion that he uses it. He really cuts underneath the ball. Having watched this match and remembering what he did to Nadal with the dropper, I'm thinking maybe Starace could claim that honour.

CescAndyKimi
05-27-2009, 01:05 PM
For a little while there I was thinking that Federer had the best drop shot on tour, on the rare occasion that he uses it. He really cuts underneath the ball. Having watched this match and remembering what he did to Nadal with the dropper, I'm thinking maybe Starace could claim that honour.

Coupled with the fact that they die so fast..even if you do get there the pick up is near impossible.

finishingmove
05-27-2009, 01:06 PM
i'm just speaking the truth.

terrible choke by starace.

murray couldn't lose this even if his life depended on it.

rafa the best
05-27-2009, 01:06 PM
What A Choke

Fed Express
05-27-2009, 01:06 PM
Fun match, probably the best of the tournament so far. Murray's forehand looked good. Starace was red hot for a set and a half before losing a big lead in the third.

Gattuso or LaLo next for him.

Er Starace was too good for him in that period, not Murray being shit. He wasn't that bad in that set and a half :shrug:

Potato head couldn't keep it up on a consistent level and that was the key. The winner to UE stats will be positive for both players I think.

Set 1 Murray too good.
Set 2 Murray awful, starace good
Set 3 Murray awful, starace normal
Set 3 part 2, Murray good, Starace awful
Set 4 boring set with both players playing consistent, nothing more.

But Staraces dropshot was great.

Murray will lose to either Cilic or F. Gonzalez.

Next match will be easy against Tipsarevic/Lopez.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:06 PM
i'm just speaking the truth.

terrible choke by starace.

murray couldn't lose this even if his life depended on it.

Stop it. :mad:

pica_pica
05-27-2009, 01:07 PM
Oh well, nice effort by Murray in the 3rd set. And horrible choke by Starace.

federernadalfan
05-27-2009, 01:08 PM
potato could have taken this match. muzza down two breaks in third set, reclaims it.:eek:

Acer
05-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Just how dreadful was Starace closing out the third set? On both occasions. Murray won't last.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Not much from the aggressiveness shown in the first round up until the last game of the match. Murray tried few big shots at the start and gave up quickly going back to pushing. Luckily for him Starace was awful enough for him to take the first set. In the second and third new situation, Potito improving himself, moving Murray around and killing him with dropshots. And then at *1-5 for Starace, famous Italian generosity strikes again, just like with Bolelli and Fognini before, gifting the next 7 games with 2 SPs along. :lol: The last game of the match was the best from Murray, just like he played in R1, with few stunning aggressive return winners.

Vida
05-27-2009, 01:09 PM
dont fight it Clydey. it was a choke of massive proportions.

rocketassist
05-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Both men had positive winners to UEs and that's not including aces/service winners, so how anyone can call this a shit match is beyond me :shrug:

CescAndyKimi
05-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Just how dreadful was Starace closing out the third set? On both occasions. Murray won't last.

Says you, tbh. :rolleyes:

Jaz
05-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Indeed, it was a massive choke...
But Murray did recover too.

Murray won't be winning FO. Far too inconsistent.

HattonWBA
05-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Starace was playing absolutely out of his skin for a set and a half. He couldn't miss. Tartan Heart doesn't know when he's beaten, though. :shrug:

Too big from Murray in the end. Was striking the ball well.

Yh Murray made lots of errors but was a very good performance, Starace however was truly awesome for a long period of the match and was striking the ball unbelivably well indeed.

Action Jackson
05-27-2009, 01:15 PM
For a little while there I was thinking that Federer had the best drop shot on tour, on the rare occasion that he uses it. He really cuts underneath the ball. Having watched this match and remembering what he did to Nadal with the dropper, I'm thinking maybe Starace could claim that honour.

Starace played better against Nadal than he did here against Murray, so it was not the match of his life, btw this is a generic comment and not specifically at you.

Starace for the most part used them at the right time and Chartrier looks like some of the top surface has been blown off, so in parts of the court it's slipperier than others, this helped him. The deception on the dropshots is excellent as well.

At the same time, this match was entertaining enough, but more of an opportunity lost for Starace to take it to a 5th set, though if a player has a double break, they should be able to close out a set.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Says you, tbh. :rolleyes:

You have to understand that a lot of these people don't watch the match. They look at the scoreline. A blind man could see that Starace was bordering on being unplayable for a set and a half. He was playing too well for Murray. It was that simple. Murray upped his game and Starace had a little dip. It's not like Potito started hitting forehands into the net or hitting his backhand long. He just wasn't hitting the lines anymore, which is to be expected. I don't view that as a choke. I mean, he only made 8 errors in the entire 3rd set. :lol:

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:17 PM
Starace played better against Nadal than he did here against Murray, so it was not the match of his life, btw this is a generic comment and not specifically at you.

Starace for the most part used them at the right time and Chartrier looks like some of the top surface has been blown off, so in parts of the court it's slipperier than others, this helped him. The deception on the dropshots is excellent as well.

At the same time, this match was entertaining enough, but more of an opportunity lost for Starace to take it to a 5th set, though if a player has a double break, they should be able to close out a set.

I thought Starace played better for an hour here than he did in the Nadal match, though he didn't sustain it for as long. I don't see how he could have played better during that period. I genuinely thought he was going to run away with it. I still don't think Murray is capable of matching that level on clay.

Acer
05-27-2009, 01:17 PM
You have to understand that a lot of these people don't watch the match. They look at the scoreline. A blind man could see that Starace was bordering on being unplayable for a set and a half. He was playing too well for Murray. It was that simple. Murray upped his game and Starace had a little dip. It's not like Potito started hitting forehands into the net or hitting his backhand long. He just wasn't hitting the lines anymore, which is to be expected. I don't view that as a choke. I mean, he only made 8 errors in the entire 3rd set. :lol:
Most of which came WHILE serving out the set, that's a choke. I watched the match.

Har-Tru
05-27-2009, 01:21 PM
lol at Starace playing the match of his life... :haha:

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:22 PM
Most of which came WHILE serving out the set, that's a choke. I watched the match.

He hit one forehand into the net during that entire period from 5-1 to 5-7. Normally I'd agree, but I think it's different on clay. The serve can't bail you out as much, especially when you have a serve like Starace's. Your opponent is going to start the rally on even terms a lot of the time, so the opportunity to break is always there. There was doubtless some tension in the guy's arm, but it wasn't an epic choke by any means. He wasn't spraying his strokes and making ridiculous decisions. It was a minor dip, likely due to tension. I think it's harsh to call that an epic choke.

Vida
05-27-2009, 01:26 PM
he was muttering and swearing himself for those 6 games murray won in the 3rd set. head hanging and shoulders lowered... it was a choke.

miura
05-27-2009, 01:28 PM
Andy needs to be careful. This performance doesn't take him far!

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 01:32 PM
He hit one forehand into the net during that entire period from 5-1 to 5-7. Normally I'd agree, but I think it's different on clay. The serve can't bail you out as much, especially when you have a serve like Starace's. Your opponent is going to start the rally on even terms a lot of the time, so the opportunity to break is always there. There was doubtless some tension in the guy's arm, but it wasn't an epic choke by any means. He wasn't spraying his strokes and making ridiculous decisions. It was a minor dip, likely due to tension. I think it's harsh to call that an epic choke.

Plus a sitter volley into the net from half a meter, plus couple of so called stop volleys that bounced 2 meters from the ground, plus lots of CC BH and FH inside out wide plus ...etc...etc... Potito got tight and choked the set.

scoobs
05-27-2009, 01:32 PM
Andy needs to be careful. This performance doesn't take him far!
It takes him to the third round, which is all it could have taken him to if he'd won 6-0 6-0 6-0.

Friday is another day.

amonb
05-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Murray will lose to either Cilic or F. Gonzalez.

No he won't

groundstroke
05-27-2009, 01:35 PM
Starace choking the third set helped Mugray win this match, Murray was not impressive at all, at times his forehand was terrible.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Plus a sitter volley into the net from half a meter, plus couple of so called stop volleys that bounced 2 meters from the ground, plus lots of CC BH and FH inside out wide plus ...etc...etc... Potito got tight and choked the set.

I'll give you the volley into the net. That was awful. Unfortunately, the stats don't back up your assertion. He only made 8 errors in the whole set, so suggesting that he hit "lots of CC BH and FH inside out wide" is wide of the mark.

He got tight and his level dropped a bit from the insane heights he was hitting. As I said, it's harsh to call that a choke.

scoobs
05-27-2009, 01:39 PM
I'll give you the volley into the net. That was awful. Unfortunately, the stats don't back up your assertion. He only made 8 errors in the whole set, so suggesting that he hit "lots of CC BH and FH inside out wide" is wide of the mark.

He got tight and his level dropped a bit from the insane heights he was hitting. As I said, it's harsh to call that a choke.
I do think Andy got a little bit lucky there. Yes he did start playing better again as the end of the set wore on, and yes Starace got a bit tight as the time came to see if he could take a strong lead in the match. But Andy left it awfully late there - he used the pressure of the situation well, but really he should have gone down two sets to one. Starace helped him a little by feeling the pressure, not just with UEs and poor shots, but by just not playing quite as confidently as he had and not trusting in his game quite as much.

But there you have it - tennis is a mental game as much as a physical one - Starace had the tennis to beat Murray today but he lacked enough of the intangible stuff between the ears to hold it together when the time came to convert the good play into a scoreboard lead.

That's what happens sometimes.

vamosinator
05-27-2009, 01:43 PM
Tipsarevic / Lopez will be trouble Murray.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:44 PM
To whichever mod edited groundstroke's post, I was joking. I'm not that petty. Had no intention of reporting the post. :lol:

scoobs
05-27-2009, 01:44 PM
Tipsarevic / Lopez will be trouble Murray.
Probably, though I think Andy would have an easier time against Lopez.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:45 PM
Probably, though I think Andy would have an easier time against Lopez.

Definitely. Handled Lopez pretty easily on clay even in 2008.

rubbERR
05-27-2009, 01:46 PM
i dont know what happened but surely i didnt create any match thread this result but my name shining top of this thread, thats weird :P

scoobs
05-27-2009, 01:49 PM
I will keep deleting them because they're just player bashing posts and against the rules.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 01:50 PM
I'll give you the volley into the net. That was awful. Unfortunately, the stats don't back up your assertion. He only made 8 errors in the whole set, so suggesting that he hit "lots of CC BH and FH inside out wide" is wide of the mark.

He got tight and his level dropped a bit from the insane heights he was hitting. As I said, it's harsh to call that a choke.

Since when did you start to believe in stats, or just when it is convenient?:devil:
Sorry Clydey, if that 3rd set wasn't a choke I don't know what is it. One way or another, comparing Murray game in R1 with this today (apart from the last game) - is like comparing Mercedes with rickshaw.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 01:50 PM
I will keep deleting them because they're just player bashing posts and against the rules.

There doesn't seem to be a great deal of consistency. Half of the posts in GM could be classed as player bashing.

Har-Tru
05-27-2009, 01:51 PM
i dont know what happened but surely i didnt create any match thread this result but my name shining top of this thread, thats weird :P

welcome to MTF servers: where time travel happens.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 01:55 PM
I will keep deleting them because they're just player bashing posts and against the rules.

:lol: That's nice scoobs, but have you thought about protecting other players from bashing too, or you are just in charge for Murray?

Action Jackson
05-27-2009, 01:57 PM
I thought Starace played better for an hour here than he did in the Nadal match, though he didn't sustain it for as long. I don't see how he could have played better during that period. I genuinely thought he was going to run away with it. I still don't think Murray is capable of matching that level on clay.

Hahahaha, come on you have a case of exaggeritis there. Considering Starace was in much better form then, and he is ranked #104 now, his overall level was higher at the time when he played Nadal than it was today, so no this is not the match of his life.

Well Starace was passive in the 3rd set, missed an easy volley, wasn't controlling the points like he was for that period of time for the 2nd set and to the 5-1 lead. He wasn't even hitting as many of the dropshots at 5-1 up, the classic forget what got you to the lead and get conservative in the process.

We can keep going in circles if you want.

scoobs
05-27-2009, 01:58 PM
:lol: That's nice scoobs, but have you thought about protecting other players from bashing too, or you are just in charge for Murray?
blatant nasty posts like that in a matchthread, I will delete no matter who the player is, if I see it or if it's reported. If they don't get dealt with it's because I haven't seen it and it hasn't been reported. I happen to be posting in this thread. I don't manage to read every single thread.

Back on topic please.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Hahahaha, come on you have a case of exaggeritis there. Considering Starace was in much better form then, and he is ranked #104 now, his overall level was higher at the time when he played Nadal than it was today, so no this is not the match of his life.

Well Starace was passive in the 3rd set, missed an easy volley, wasn't controlling the points like he was for that period of time for the 2nd set and to the 5-1 lead. He wasn't even hitting as many of the dropshots at 5-1 up, the classic forget what got you to the lead and get conservative in the process.

We can keep going in circles if you want.

I'm not trying to argue with you, so there's no need to be so confrontational. I just don't accept the premise that because Starace was ranked higher when he played Nadal, he couldn't match that level now. That simply isn't how it works. And I wasn't the guy who said that Starace played the match of his life, so I'm not sure where I exaggerated.

I'll agree to disagree.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 02:04 PM
blatant nasty posts like that in a matchthread, I will delete no matter who the player is, if I see it or if it's reported.


I would love seeing MTF like that. :yeah:

Action Jackson
05-27-2009, 02:09 PM
I'm not trying to argue with you, so there's no need to be so confrontational. I just don't accept the premise that because Starace was ranked higher when he played Nadal, he couldn't match that level now. That simply isn't how it works. And I wasn't the guy who said that Starace played the match of his life, so I'm not sure where I exaggerated.

I'll agree to disagree.

Starace played well, the best he has for the whole year in that 1 hour period, this does not change the fact that he played at a higher overall level against Nadal in Rome, which makes sense considering he was in much better form that season, than he is at the moment.

It's not a question of being confrontational, the fact you refuse to believe he choked or got passive is more of an issue. It's not like Murray he hit 20 cold winners in a row to completely change the momentum of the match. He stepped it up yes, but not to the point, where Starace didn't contribute to his own downfall.

Quadruple Tree
05-27-2009, 02:09 PM
Fantastic choke by Starace.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 02:11 PM
Lopez would be ideal for next match, Murray will have a training session with passing shots. Tipsarevic could pose some problem on a certain day, but he is not using angles so he won't move Andy around much and he can handle the pace from Tipsy ground-strokes.

This is Sparta
05-27-2009, 02:12 PM
I will keep deleting them because they're just player bashing posts and against the rules.

Then delete all the post who contain the word 'Nadull', and so on...or can we bash any player but Murray? :rolleyes:

theDreamer
05-27-2009, 02:13 PM
Murray's forehand is a big weakness on clay. Not enough weight on his basic rallying shot
so he tends to be put on the defence a lot in 50-50 rallies against people with good
clay court forehands.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Starace played well, the best he has for the whole year in that 1 hour period, this does not change the fact that he played at a higher overall level against Nadal in Rome, which makes sense considering he was in much better form that season, than he is at the moment.

It's not a question of being confrontational, the fact you refuse to believe he choked or got passive is more of an issue. It's not like Murray he hit 20 cold winners in a row to completely change the momentum of the match. He stepped it up yes, but not to the point, where Starace didn't contribute to his own downfall.

I said that Starace got tight and his level dropped. I didn't deny that. What I'm objecting to is the idea that it was some sort of Berdych-esque meltdown. In other words, tension obviously played a part but his level didn't drop to the extent that he was playing horribly. He was playing poorly relative to the higher standard he had set earlier.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 02:18 PM
Murray's forehand is a big weakness on clay. Not enough weight on his basic rallying shot
so he tends to be put on the defence a lot in 50-50 rallies against people with good
clay court forehands.

I think his backhand is the weakness on clay. The forehand is the better shot when he hits it aggressively.

finishingmove
05-27-2009, 02:20 PM
today, when he needed to be aggressive, murray hit some nice angled forehands.

but most of the time, starace was controlling the points, before the choke.

Action Jackson
05-27-2009, 02:23 PM
I said that Starace got tight and his level dropped. I didn't deny that. What I'm objecting to is the idea that it was some sort of Berdych-esque meltdown. In other words, tension obviously played a part but his level didn't drop to the extent that he was playing horribly. He was playing poorly relative to the higher standard he had set earlier.

Starace didn't stay in the moment as for a Berdych like meltdown, not all of the players that lose big leads are done so spectacularly, it's not the one thing suits all. His level dropped enough for it to be a choke.

malisha
05-27-2009, 02:26 PM
For a little while there I was thinking that Federer had the best drop shot on tour, on the rare occasion that he uses it. He really cuts underneath the ball. Having watched this match and remembering what he did to Nadal with the dropper, I'm thinking maybe Starace could claim that honour.
Montys dropshot is good aswell


Murray will lose to Cilic
Next match will be easy against Tipsarevic

Lol x2

ossie
05-27-2009, 02:27 PM
blatant nasty posts like that in a matchthread, I will delete no matter who the player is, if I see it or if it's reported. If they don't get dealt with it's because I haven't seen it and it hasn't been reported. I happen to be posting in this thread. I don't manage to read every single thread.

Back on topic please.
glenn mirni shouldve been perma banned a long time ago then :wavey:

Deejay
05-27-2009, 02:29 PM
Have to agree with the dreamer when talking about the forehand. When Murray and Starace were trading cross court forehands it was Starace who more often then not was winning them as he simply posseses a better weight of shot on that side. As a result as you say, unless Murray gets the first strike in on clay, he is forced to defend deep behind the baseline which will ultimatley be his downfall against the better players(he can get away with this on the quicker surfaces). Murray's performance today shows you why a guy like Djokovic is a much better clay-courter and a bigger threat to Nadal than Murray is.

HeretiC
05-27-2009, 02:29 PM
I think his backhand is the weakness on clay. The forehand is the better shot when he hits it aggressively.

His BH ROS is much better than FH.

Clydey
05-27-2009, 02:33 PM
His BH ROS is much better than FH.

His backhand all round is a better shot. Just not on clay. But yes, the BH return is better even on clay.

Deivid23
05-27-2009, 02:35 PM
Good entertainment. Great comeback in 3rd set, well done Andrew

malisha
05-27-2009, 02:37 PM
Tipsarevic could pose some problem on a certain day, but he is not using angles so he won't move Andy around much and he can handle the pace from Tipsy ground-strokes.

yea but if Murray will be passive Tipsy have shotmaking ability to trouble him

Voo de Mar
05-27-2009, 02:40 PM
Murray drills mental strength against Italian mugs on clay, saved set points against Fognini (Monte Carlo), Bolelli (Madrid) and Starace (Paris) ;)

Lullaby
05-27-2009, 02:45 PM
Good match, murray went off the boil quite a bit for a set and a half but starace played very well

Last game of the match makes you so frustrated as a murray fan as his potential to dictate by being aggressive is there but often ignored

Laba
05-27-2009, 02:47 PM
Lucky one, Murray.

Starace... heh, for a moment he had me forgetting he lost to Tomic in R1 of the AO. :o

Guy Haines
05-27-2009, 03:14 PM
Good match, murray went off the boil quite a bit for a set and a half but starace played very well

Last game of the match makes you so frustrated as a murray fan as his potential to dictate by being aggressive is there but often ignored

I hear you. Only a game earlier things were starting to look dicey as he started getting angry. If he fed off his hot temper with off the cuff winners more often it could do wonders. Sometimes it almost seems like his game is countering his mood or temperament.

Good win though. And yeah Starace is good wtih drop shots.

habibko
05-27-2009, 03:50 PM
I will keep deleting them because they're just player bashing posts and against the rules.

so it's not ok to bash Murray but totally fine to bash Federer and Nadal on GM 24/7?

:cuckoo:

Sunset of Age
05-27-2009, 03:53 PM
so it's not ok to bash Murray but totally fine to bash Federer and Nadal on GM 24/7?

:cuckoo:

Uhm... yeah, mods, where were you last night, for instance? It was one big Troll Infection on GM... :confused:

tennisfan444
05-27-2009, 03:55 PM
I can't wait to hear how he explains it in post conf.

Venle
05-27-2009, 04:40 PM
Funny match, it was funny to see Murray 1-5 down. In two seconds it was already 5-all.

What happened to him in the second/start of the third? :help:

nkp2
05-27-2009, 04:44 PM
Starace choked 3rd set, and this match was booring.

I don't understand so many people on here. All the haters (not just of Murray but any player)

This match was fantastic. So many massive winners, from both players, great depth of hitting, great shot making, inventive play. Very good match to watch.

On a "fanboy" :rolleyes: note - awesome comeback from Murray, dug deep and got the job done.

Hope he makes the semis and at least tests Nadal. :)

Myrre
05-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Murray screaming come-on after every single point annoyed the hell out of Starace and he forgot to focus on his tennis. Murray winning ugly again...

roberthenman
05-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Andy :yeah:

Arkulari
05-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Muzza didn't play THAT great, but got the job done, he still needs to up his clay game if he wants to make some noise, his movement is awful at times :shrug:

Mashachosen1
05-27-2009, 05:45 PM
Starace :o

McAlistar
05-27-2009, 06:02 PM
This was the sort of match Murray would have played a year or two ago, i just think he's a bit out of form at the moment. Despite winning 2 tournaments since OZ he hasnt been playing to the level he was pre tournament. Where he was hitting only a couple of U/E's a set. Im pleased he got through but it was more tense than it needed to be.

scoobs
05-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Not really sure I agree with that - I think had this match been played 2 years ago, Murray loses in 4, not wins.

Goldenoldie
05-27-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't understand so many people on here. All the haters (not just of Murray but any player)

This match was fantastic. So many massive winners, from both players, great depth of hitting, great shot making, inventive play. Very good match to watch.

On a "fanboy" :rolleyes: note - awesome comeback from Murray, dug deep and got the job done.

Hope he makes the semis and at least tests Nadal. :)

At last, somebody willing to give credit to both Murray and his opponent. I don't think Murray was as impressive as in the first round, but Starace played a blinder for one and three-quarter sets. Whether or not he choked depends a lot on how you define the word. One of Murray's great strengths is that he never believes a lower ranked player is going to beat him, no matter how far behind he is. More often than not he is proved right. In this mental respect he matches Nadal and Federer, and is well ahead of Djokovic.

doublebackhand
05-27-2009, 06:37 PM
Murray would have lost this match had he met anyone with a slightly tougher mentality than Starace. Starace totally gave away the match. How could he not convert any of those set points in set 3 or held serve from 5-1 up?? anyone half decent would be able to do that. Murray just cling and managed to wait for the opponent to self implode. I cant wait for him to get to the 1/16 or 1/8 and gets destroyed.

Sapeod
05-27-2009, 07:54 PM
Murray would have lost this match had he met anyone with a slightly tougher mentality than Starace. Starace totally gave away the match. How could he not convert any of those set points in set 3 or held serve from 5-1 up?? anyone half decent would be able to do that. Murray just cling and managed to wait for the opponent to self implode. I cant wait for him to get to the 1/16 or 1/8 and gets destroyed.

Only in your dreams :wavey:

Smoke944
05-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Terrible choke by Starace. It's a shame too, this could have been really interesting.

GlennMirnyi
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
Not really sure I agree with that - I think had this match been played 2 years ago, Murray loses in 4, not wins.

Really, captain obvious?


Too bad I only watched the end of the third and the fourth. Can't say I've witnessed Starace's major choke.

theDreamer
05-27-2009, 09:54 PM
I think his backhand is the weakness on clay. The forehand is the better shot when he hits it aggressively.

Can I ask your reasons?
And btw, I'm not talking about when he hits his forehand aggressively, in the sense of dominating
the rally or going for winners.
I'm talking about when he's in basic rallying mode - i.e. when he and his
opponent are on even keel in the rally / when he's trading heavy forehands with the opponent - to
me, today, it seems like he was coming off the losing end of such rallies or at least being pushed
back into defence more often and having to come up with great counterpunching/passing shots on the run.

Corey Feldman
05-27-2009, 10:13 PM
WTF were you doing Muzza :lol:

typical of him lately, up and down from one day to the next

Clydey
05-27-2009, 10:56 PM
Can I ask your reasons?
And btw, I'm not talking about when he hits his forehand aggressively, in the sense of dominating
the rally or going for winners.
I'm talking about when he's in basic rallying mode - i.e. when he and his
opponent are on even keel in the rally / when he's trading heavy forehands with the opponent - to
me, today, it seems like he was coming off the losing end of such rallies or at least being pushed
back into defence more often and having to come up with great counterpunching/passing shots on the run.

The backhand is a much flatter shot. The forehand has a lot more spin and a lot more net clearance. It's more suitable for clay. The backhand doesn't do the job it does on a hardcourt.

Raquel
05-27-2009, 10:58 PM
Well done Andy :yeah: Glad he got through in 4 :)

the graduate
05-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Murray is just boring on clay he wont go far thats for sure.He will get as far as qtrs thats all

Xenosys
05-27-2009, 11:04 PM
Admittedly, I hadn't seen Starace play before so wasn't sure what to expect once the match got underway. Pleasantly surprised was the first thing that sprang to mind once the match was done and dusted. Good player, with a strong forehand, and used the drop shot to good effect with nice disguise. It's not necessarily technical ability alone that dictates ranking, but mental fortitude, and it became clear as the match wore on why Starace was 104th (approx.) in the ATP Rankings, and why Murray is top 5 material.

I don't think the second set performance would worry Murray too much. Starace in the second set would have probably dismantled just about anyone bar perhaps Nadal. Very few UE's and a barrowload of winners. Not to mention some intricate variety and some tactical nous to boot.

I'd agree with Clydey that Murray's forehand when he connects is a much more devastating weapon than his backhand on this surface. He seems to be able to generate more power and hit through the ball more on clay, and gets the ball much closer to the baseline when it's on, whereas the backhand tends to generate the angles requires to be able to dictate rallies and move opponents around. It's also hit pretty flat and that while that would be effective on a hardcourt, it's not necessarily suited to this surface.

The vast majority of players out there are never going to progress comfortably throughout their potential 7 matches without at least a few hiccups, because they are not always going to be at their best. Murray wasn't at his best, for large spells of this one, but onwards and upwards.

Credit to Starace though on a fine display.

Steelq
05-27-2009, 11:09 PM
Murray is just boring on clay he wont go far thats for sure.He will get as far as qtrs thats all

He is boring on every surface,but he could go to quarters or semis here,even if he's not so good on clay,cuz his draw doesn't seems too challenging.

iSzavay.
05-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Good job Andy :yeah:!

scoobs
05-27-2009, 11:25 PM
Interestingly, Starace lamented not being able to close out that third set but felt that he played his best ever tennis for 2 sets there.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport_Vari/Tennis/27-05-2009/murray-spegne-starace-50456307295.shtml

POTITO, SOGNO SVANITO — Poteva essere il giorno di Potito Starace, il giorno che il campano attende dal 2004 quando sul centrale del Roland Garros si mangiò due match point contro Marat Safin. Poteva essere oggi perchè l'azzurro, giocando per lunghi tratti il suo miglior tennis, ha fatto vacillare niente meno che Andy Murrray, terzo giocatore al mondo con ambizioni molto elevate. Starace ha finito per perdere in quattro set ma avrebbe potuto dare una svolta significativa al match se solo avesse concretizzato le due opportunità per portarsi avanti due set a uno. L'inizio, tuttavia, non prometteva niente di buono perchè Murray ha dominato il primo set (break decisivo nel quinto gioco) cedendo in quattro turni di battuta appena tre punti. Ma all'inizio del secondo set il match è cambiato: Starace ha martellato lo scozzese sulla sua diagonale migliore evitando sistematicamente il rovescio di Murray che ha avuto un clamoroso black out. Poto si è mangiato due break point nel primo game del secondo set, poi alla quinta palla break del terzo game ha fatto il vuoto issandosi sul 5-1 prima di chiudere per 6-2. Nel terzo Poto ha mantenuto l'elevato livello del suo tennis e in un baleno si è portato avanti 5-1. Qui, con Murray alla battuta, ha avuto un primo set point che però lo scozzese ha cancellato con il servizio. Poi sul 5-3, sempre con Murray al servizio, ne ha avuto un altro ma lo scozzese è stato ancora una volta bravo a tirare fuori dal cilindro un nuovo servizio vincente. Potito ha servito una seconda volta per il set sul 5-4 ma il suo momento magico si apprestava ad esaurirsi. Qui è praticamente finita la partita perchè Murray ha evitato il tie break e poi, sul 5-4 del quarto, ha assestato il break decisivo chiudendo al terzo match point utile (risultato finale 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4). "Credo di aver giocato il mio miglior tennis di sempre - ha commentato Starace - per quasi due set, poi però sono tornato con i piedi per terra. Il mio rammarico più grande non sono i due set point sbagliati ma il fatto di essere calato sul 5-4 del terzo. Lui è un campione vero, si muove benissimo sul campo sia lateralmente che in avanti e con il rovescio può fare tutto quello che vuole".


Google translation butcher yields:



Potito, dream - could be the day of Potito Starace, the day that the campano waiting since 2004 when the central part of Roland Garros we ate two match points against Marat Safin. Poteva essere oggi perchè l'azzurro, giocando per lunghi tratti il suo miglior tennis, ha fatto vacillare niente meno che Andy Murrray, terzo giocatore al mondo con ambizioni molto elevate.
It could be today because the blue, playing for long stretches her best tennis, did not waver unless Andy Murrray third player in the world with very high ambitions. Starace ha finito per perdere in quattro set ma avrebbe potuto dare una svolta significativa al match se solo avesse concretizzato le due opportunità per portarsi avanti due set a uno.
Starace ended up losing in four sets but could have a significant turning point in the match only if the concrete had two opportunities to move ahead two sets to one. L'inizio, tuttavia, non prometteva niente di buono perchè Murray ha dominato il primo set (break decisivo nel quinto gioco) cedendo in quattro turni di battuta appena tre punti.
The beginning, however, does not promise anything good because Murray had dominated the first set (break in the decisive fifth game) yielding four rounds bar just three points. Ma all'inizio del secondo set il match è cambiato: Starace ha martellato lo scozzese sulla sua diagonale migliore evitando sistematicamente il rovescio di Murray che ha avuto un clamoroso black out.
But at the beginning of the second set the match is changed Starace has hammered the Scots on its diagonal improved systematically avoiding the other side of Murray who had a sensational black out. Poto si è mangiato due break point nel primo game del secondo set, poi alla quinta palla break del terzo game ha fatto il vuoto issandosi sul 5-1 prima di chiudere per 6-2.
Poto has eaten two break points in the first game of the second set, then break to the fifth ball of the third game has created a vacuum issandosi on 5-1 before closing to 6-2. Nel terzo Poto ha mantenuto l'elevato livello del suo tennis e in un baleno si è portato avanti 5-1.
In the third Poto has maintained the high level of his tennis and in a flash it was carried out 5-1. Qui, con Murray alla battuta, ha avuto un primo set point che però lo scozzese ha cancellato con il servizio.
Here, with Murray at bar, had a first set point but the Scot has canceled the service. Poi sul 5-3, sempre con Murray al servizio, ne ha avuto un altro ma lo scozzese è stato ancora una volta bravo a tirare fuori dal cilindro un nuovo servizio vincente.
Then on 5-3, with Murray serving, I had another but the Scot was still a good time to pull out of the hat a service winner. Potito ha servito una seconda volta per il set sul 5-4 ma il suo momento magico si apprestava ad esaurirsi.
Potito has served for a second time on the set 5-4 but the magic moment was preparing to run out. Qui è praticamente finita la partita perchè Murray ha evitato il tie break e poi, sul 5-4 del quarto, ha assestato il break decisivo chiudendo al terzo match point utile (risultato finale 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4).
Here is almost finished the game because Murray has avoided the tie break and then, at 5-4 in the fourth, has dealt the decisive break by closing the third match point output (final result 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4) . "Credo di aver giocato il mio miglior tennis di sempre - ha commentato Starace - per quasi due set, poi però sono tornato con i piedi per terra. Il mio rammarico più grande non sono i due set point sbagliati ma il fatto di essere calato sul 5-4 del terzo. Lui è un campione vero, si muove benissimo sul campo sia lateralmente che in avanti e con il rovescio può fare tutto quello che vuole".
"I think I played my best tennis ever - said Starace - for nearly two sets, but then I came back with his feet on the ground. My biggest regret is not the two set points but missed the fact that it fell on 5-4 in the third. He is a true champion, moves very well on both side and forward with the other side can do whatever he wants. "


I don't think he quite played his best ever tennis but he did show some of the level that he has shown in the past that caused Federer and Nadal some temporary problems in their matches.

miura
05-27-2009, 11:37 PM
I'd be surprised if Andy made it to the semi's.

scoobs
05-27-2009, 11:39 PM
I think he'll be doing well to beat Tipsarevic.

After that I don't see it getting any easier either. Very much one match at a time here. Theoretically i can see him beating, or losing to, any of his next couple of opponents on this surface.

moon language
05-28-2009, 12:22 AM
So many CMON!s from Murray.

Clydey
05-28-2009, 02:21 AM
Interestingly, Starace lamented not being able to close out that third set but felt that he played his best ever tennis for 2 sets there.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport_Vari/Tennis/27-05-2009/murray-spegne-starace-50456307295.shtml

POTITO, SOGNO SVANITO — Poteva essere il giorno di Potito Starace, il giorno che il campano attende dal 2004 quando sul centrale del Roland Garros si mangiò due match point contro Marat Safin. Poteva essere oggi perchè l'azzurro, giocando per lunghi tratti il suo miglior tennis, ha fatto vacillare niente meno che Andy Murrray, terzo giocatore al mondo con ambizioni molto elevate. Starace ha finito per perdere in quattro set ma avrebbe potuto dare una svolta significativa al match se solo avesse concretizzato le due opportunità per portarsi avanti due set a uno. L'inizio, tuttavia, non prometteva niente di buono perchè Murray ha dominato il primo set (break decisivo nel quinto gioco) cedendo in quattro turni di battuta appena tre punti. Ma all'inizio del secondo set il match è cambiato: Starace ha martellato lo scozzese sulla sua diagonale migliore evitando sistematicamente il rovescio di Murray che ha avuto un clamoroso black out. Poto si è mangiato due break point nel primo game del secondo set, poi alla quinta palla break del terzo game ha fatto il vuoto issandosi sul 5-1 prima di chiudere per 6-2. Nel terzo Poto ha mantenuto l'elevato livello del suo tennis e in un baleno si è portato avanti 5-1. Qui, con Murray alla battuta, ha avuto un primo set point che però lo scozzese ha cancellato con il servizio. Poi sul 5-3, sempre con Murray al servizio, ne ha avuto un altro ma lo scozzese è stato ancora una volta bravo a tirare fuori dal cilindro un nuovo servizio vincente. Potito ha servito una seconda volta per il set sul 5-4 ma il suo momento magico si apprestava ad esaurirsi. Qui è praticamente finita la partita perchè Murray ha evitato il tie break e poi, sul 5-4 del quarto, ha assestato il break decisivo chiudendo al terzo match point utile (risultato finale 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4). "Credo di aver giocato il mio miglior tennis di sempre - ha commentato Starace - per quasi due set, poi però sono tornato con i piedi per terra. Il mio rammarico più grande non sono i due set point sbagliati ma il fatto di essere calato sul 5-4 del terzo. Lui è un campione vero, si muove benissimo sul campo sia lateralmente che in avanti e con il rovescio può fare tutto quello che vuole".


Google translation butcher yields:



Potito, dream - could be the day of Potito Starace, the day that the campano waiting since 2004 when the central part of Roland Garros we ate two match points against Marat Safin. Poteva essere oggi perchè l'azzurro, giocando per lunghi tratti il suo miglior tennis, ha fatto vacillare niente meno che Andy Murrray, terzo giocatore al mondo con ambizioni molto elevate.
It could be today because the blue, playing for long stretches her best tennis, did not waver unless Andy Murrray third player in the world with very high ambitions. Starace ha finito per perdere in quattro set ma avrebbe potuto dare una svolta significativa al match se solo avesse concretizzato le due opportunità per portarsi avanti due set a uno.
Starace ended up losing in four sets but could have a significant turning point in the match only if the concrete had two opportunities to move ahead two sets to one. L'inizio, tuttavia, non prometteva niente di buono perchè Murray ha dominato il primo set (break decisivo nel quinto gioco) cedendo in quattro turni di battuta appena tre punti.
The beginning, however, does not promise anything good because Murray had dominated the first set (break in the decisive fifth game) yielding four rounds bar just three points. Ma all'inizio del secondo set il match è cambiato: Starace ha martellato lo scozzese sulla sua diagonale migliore evitando sistematicamente il rovescio di Murray che ha avuto un clamoroso black out.
But at the beginning of the second set the match is changed Starace has hammered the Scots on its diagonal improved systematically avoiding the other side of Murray who had a sensational black out. Poto si è mangiato due break point nel primo game del secondo set, poi alla quinta palla break del terzo game ha fatto il vuoto issandosi sul 5-1 prima di chiudere per 6-2.
Poto has eaten two break points in the first game of the second set, then break to the fifth ball of the third game has created a vacuum issandosi on 5-1 before closing to 6-2. Nel terzo Poto ha mantenuto l'elevato livello del suo tennis e in un baleno si è portato avanti 5-1.
In the third Poto has maintained the high level of his tennis and in a flash it was carried out 5-1. Qui, con Murray alla battuta, ha avuto un primo set point che però lo scozzese ha cancellato con il servizio.
Here, with Murray at bar, had a first set point but the Scot has canceled the service. Poi sul 5-3, sempre con Murray al servizio, ne ha avuto un altro ma lo scozzese è stato ancora una volta bravo a tirare fuori dal cilindro un nuovo servizio vincente.
Then on 5-3, with Murray serving, I had another but the Scot was still a good time to pull out of the hat a service winner. Potito ha servito una seconda volta per il set sul 5-4 ma il suo momento magico si apprestava ad esaurirsi.
Potito has served for a second time on the set 5-4 but the magic moment was preparing to run out. Qui è praticamente finita la partita perchè Murray ha evitato il tie break e poi, sul 5-4 del quarto, ha assestato il break decisivo chiudendo al terzo match point utile (risultato finale 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4).
Here is almost finished the game because Murray has avoided the tie break and then, at 5-4 in the fourth, has dealt the decisive break by closing the third match point output (final result 6-3 2-6 7-5 6-4) . "Credo di aver giocato il mio miglior tennis di sempre - ha commentato Starace - per quasi due set, poi però sono tornato con i piedi per terra. Il mio rammarico più grande non sono i due set point sbagliati ma il fatto di essere calato sul 5-4 del terzo. Lui è un campione vero, si muove benissimo sul campo sia lateralmente che in avanti e con il rovescio può fare tutto quello che vuole".
"I think I played my best tennis ever - said Starace - for nearly two sets, but then I came back with his feet on the ground. My biggest regret is not the two set points but missed the fact that it fell on 5-4 in the third. He is a true champion, moves very well on both side and forward with the other side can do whatever he wants. "


I don't think he quite played his best ever tennis but he did show some of the level that he has shown in the past that caused Federer and Nadal some temporary problems in their matches.

I think this backs up what I said to George earlier. In my opinion he played better for that hour than he did against Rafa.

theDreamer
05-28-2009, 09:13 AM
I think his backhand is the weakness on clay. The forehand is the better shot when he hits it aggressively.

The backhand is a much flatter shot. The forehand has a lot more spin and a lot more net clearance. It's more suitable for clay. The backhand doesn't do the job it does on a hardcourt.

I agree that spin is desirable on clay, but the way he hits his basic forehand,unless he's hitting flat out
(which however much we hope he would, he can't do constantly - nobody can), it tends to sit up to be
attacked, rather than "jump up towards the person" - IMO, it doesn't have enough a good enough power/spin ratio.

For example, in this match, I noticed even though he would try to hit his forehand to starace's backhand
side in the rallies, but the lack of weight meant starace had enough time to run around his backhand and keep
controlling the rally with his forehand. From what I saw in the 3rd set from 5-1, had starace been a bit more
patient with his net approaches (and not missed a crucial volley in one of his service games) he would
have won that set.

The backhand is not as effective on this surface, but it is still good enough - but IMO what he needs
is a rally forehand that doesn't make him so easily attackable. Against PH Matthieu in the exhibition last
week, PHM controlled most of the forehand rallies as well - granted it was only an exhibition, but it doesn't
show signs that he will ever dominate on clay like Rafa, Fed & Djokovic.