You be the official. (Code Violation or Default) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

You be the official. (Code Violation or Default)

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 12:50 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

Sunset of Age
05-27-2009, 01:04 AM
Interesting.

I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."
immediate default

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."
code violation

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.
immediate default

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.
nothing, as it happened accidently

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.
nothing, as it happened accidently

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.
code violation

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.
immediate default

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.
code violation

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

Well I wonder how I did... am I too friendly or too harsh? :D

MacTheKnife
05-27-2009, 01:43 AM
I believe they are all code violations on first offense, except 6. That may be a default.

GlennMirnyi
05-27-2009, 01:51 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

I'd default players for a lot less than that and for all that, of course.

leng jai
05-27-2009, 01:56 AM
That should all be in the spirit of the game IMO.

MacTheKnife
05-27-2009, 02:16 AM
Unfortunately what players should be defaulted for and what they are defaulted for are vastly different.

Snoo Foo
05-27-2009, 02:47 AM
1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."
code violation

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."
code violation

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.
immediate default

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.
immediate default

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.
immediate default

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.
code violation

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.
code violation

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.
code violation

FiBeR
05-27-2009, 03:22 AM
death penalty in all cases

Forehander
05-27-2009, 03:29 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

You certainly have missed out the most important one: taking a shitload amount of time again and again between each point is a huge code violation.

EDIT:
and receiving such code violation again and again in one match should eventually result in a default IMO.

Angle Queen
05-27-2009, 03:32 AM
I'll play. And as always, good to see you here Woodrow.

Since you've mentioned they're all Code Violations, I'll give my "humble" opinion on whether they should be "defaults" or not.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."
DEFAULT. Say all you want under your breath or in another direction but look at me...and you get "The Thumb." That was my "Rule of Thumb" when I umpired collegiate intramural softball (fraternity division, no less ;) ).

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."
Eh. :shrug: Part of the game. Let it ride. Merely a Code Violation (if that).

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.
DEFAULT. Outa there. Physical retaliation has no part in the sport.

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.
No biggie, IMHO. Part-n-parcel of the job.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.
Still...part of the job.

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.
DEFAULT. They KNOW better. Get 'em outa there.

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.
DEFAULT. Same as above. No excuses. G-O-N-E.

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.
Been there. Done That (except sitting on the potty in an air conditioned facility) :lol: Just part of the game, as long as it's done within the "usual" time...although the player should be smarter about it.

Angle Queen
05-27-2009, 03:35 AM
You certainly have missed out the most important one: taking a shitload amount of time again and again between each point is a huge code violation.:rolls:

You cannnn't be talking about two of the top 3 (or 4 depending on the day/week of the calendar)?

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 04:19 AM
Keep in mind that for #5, it happened accidentally after a point. Not during the point on a ball in play.

Lee
05-27-2009, 04:20 AM
Keep in mind that for #5, it happened accidentally after a point. Not during the point on a ball in play.

That should be default, right? Both 4 & 5.

Deboogle!.
05-27-2009, 04:34 AM
That should be default, right? Both 4 & 5.I think so, I swear I remember a player get defaulted for something like this happening (the non-injuring one, i mean) :scratch: shouldn't matter whether the kid gets hurt or not, didn't someone get defaulted for throwing their racquet that hit a line judge even though he didn't mean to? am I just making crap up now? :rolls:

Snoo Foo
05-27-2009, 05:13 AM
Keep in mind that for #5, it happened accidentally after a point. Not during the point on a ball in play.

how the hell do you "accidentally" hit something "very hard" anyway? pffft. accident schmaccident.

GuiroNl
05-27-2009, 07:25 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.


1. Code violation
2. Code violation
3. Default
4. Default
5. Default
6. Default
7. Default
8. Code violation

zine56
05-27-2009, 07:52 AM
didn't someone get defaulted for throwing their racquet that hit a line judge even though he didn't mean to? am I just making crap up now? :rolls:

Coria vs Verkerk? 2003 RG? Coria had to beg to avoid the default LOL :lol:

Goldenoldie
05-27-2009, 08:51 AM
2, 4 & 5 code violation
Remainder immediate default

Vin Judah
05-27-2009, 09:39 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

1. Code
2. Code
3. Default
4. Code
5. Default
6. Code
7. Code
8. Code

Bargearse
05-27-2009, 09:47 AM
I will give a few examples of clear code violations. You tell me if you think it should be just a code going with the point penalty schedule, or an immediate default.

1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."
code violation

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."
code violation


3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.
immediate default

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.
immediate default

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.
immediate default

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.
immediate default

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.
immediate default

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.
code violation

These are all situations that have happened by the way.

Swearing and hitting tennis balls in frustration are all 'heat of the moment' emotional situations which can obviously be difficult for players to control and that needs to be taken into consideration. However, ball hitting can result in physical injury and should therefore be dealt with severely.

The coaching violation I believe should be an immediate default because this is controllable and players and coaches alike should understand the rules.

As for the toilet break lying down issue, I couldn't care less what the player does in the toilet.

Does anyone know who the player was who lied down and then rinsed his face & what penalty was handed out by the umpire?

gjr
05-27-2009, 10:02 AM
Didn't Roddick throw a racket once that bounced off the floor and hit a line judge?

May of been in that thrashing he took against Fed at the AO the other year.

Frooty_Bazooty
05-27-2009, 11:12 AM
OP, if these situations all happened for real, can you tell us what the original umpire's decision was?

seulCONTREtous
05-27-2009, 11:35 AM
I think so, I swear I remember a player get defaulted for something like this happening (the non-injuring one, i mean) :scratch: shouldn't matter whether the kid gets hurt or not, didn't someone get defaulted for throwing their racquet that hit a line judge even though he didn't mean to? am I just making crap up now? :rolls:

I think Henman got defaulted for accidently hitting a ballkid with his racquet at Wimbledon a couple of years ago.

Angle Queen
05-27-2009, 03:03 PM
I think Henman got defaulted for accidently hitting a ballkid with his racquet at Wimbledon a couple of years ago.;)

More than just a few years, though. It was 1995. Reference (http://www.sportinglife.com/tennis/wimbledon2007/features/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=wimbledon/07/06/20/manual_164530.html)

Guess Tim has mellowed since then.

habibko
05-27-2009, 04:05 PM
1. After disagreeing with a line call, the player looks directly at the line umpire and clearly says, "F*ck you."
code violation

2. Same situation, only this time, not looking directly at the line umpire says, "call it out you f**ker."
code violation

3. After disagreeing with a decision by the chair umpire, the player, from the baseline, hits a ball hard, clearly aiming at the chair umpire, but the ball misses the umpire.
if it happened during the next point, nothing, if it was before the point starts as in clear assault attempt: default

4. After a point, a player accidentally hits a ball very hard and recklessly and the ball hits a ballboy on the shin. The ballboy is not injured and is kind of laughing about it after it happens.
I don't think this deserve anything because it happened accidentally, but since you say in the header that these are all clear violations, I guess it would be a code violation then, doesn't seem like one to me though.

5. Same thing, only this time it hits the ball boy in the stomach, and the kid is bent over obviously hurt badly.
same as above, as long as it was accidental

6. A player takes a bathroom break escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire comes to you after the bathroom break and tells you that the player's coach met him outside the court and was giving the player instruction. After the line umpire told the coach he couldn't to that, the coach immediately stopped.
violation I suppose

7. Same situation, only this time, after the line umpire told the coach he couldn't do that, the coach continued to give instruction.
default

8. A player takes a bathroom break, escorted by a line umpire. The line umpire reports to you that the player went into the locker room, lied down on a bench for 2 minutes, then got up, went to the sink and rinsed his face off, then came back to the court.
I don't think this deserves anything, but if I must choose then code violation

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 05:04 PM
how the hell do you "accidentally" hit something "very hard" anyway? pffft. accident schmaccident.
Did not hit the ball accidentally. Hit the ball accidentally at a ballkid. Meaning that he was not meaning to hit someone.

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 05:08 PM
#1. Default. The key is "looks right at the line umpire." Anytime that a player says this, and there is eye contact with the official, it is most likely going to be a default unless the chair umpire doesn't hear it and the line umpire doesn't report it immediately.

#2. Code Violation. No eye contact, not as personal. Definitely a code, ESPECIALLY if there are mics on the court.

#3. Most likely a default, however the chair umpire has to be very sure that the player was aiming at him, (i.e. umpire has to move to get out of the way). If there is not the clear intent to hit the umpire, it would be a code and not default.

#4. Code
#5. Default (see above posts for explanation on 4, 5)

#6. Code violation. The key being that the coach stopped immediately after the line umpire stepped in and said something.

#7. Default. Blatant disregard to what the official says. They have the chance to stop when the line umpire steps in, if they don't, they will be subject to a default.

#8. Most likely default. The line umpire escorting the player should (is trained) to tell the player they at least have to go into a stall. Once a player goes into the stall, they can pretty much do what they want. A toilet break is solely for using the toilet. A shower, or cool off, or face rinse only, is subject to a default. The exception may be in a futures or challenger with a young player who will get a code and be informed by the supervisor that this can't happen again.