Loss to Fed: Best thing for Rafa going into RG? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Loss to Fed: Best thing for Rafa going into RG?

sawan66278
05-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Again, while I hate to see Rafa ever lose to Fed, I got to thinking. This loss, while certainly a confidence booster for Fed, may very well have been the best thing for Rafa. Why?

1. Fed claimed earlier in the week that it may be better to not face Rafa until the RG final. Now, Rafa has recently faced Fed on this surface, so the element of surprise is no longer there.

2. Going into RG with no losses is not necessarily a good thing. Much like going undefeated in college basketball, unnecessary pressure builds up trying to go through a season without a loss. Because the pursuit of the "perfect" season is gone, so goes that pressure.

3. Losing to Fed is a wake-up call for Rafa. No matter how humble one is, complacency from domination leads to the potential for underestimating one's opponents. As a matter of fact, I've attributed Rafa's 2009 clay campaign (which has been less impressive than previous years) to complacency. Thinking you can bring your "B" game to a match and still winning leads one to be susceptible to the upset. One cannot simply turn it on and off, and this loss should shake Rafa out of this mindset, and

4. Most importantly, Rafa was able to see what new tactics Roger utilized BEFORE RG. Roger may have showed his cards too early, in an effort to win yesterday. Now, Rafa has experienced the changes before the biggest stage: RG. Making Rafa wait, electing to receive serve, using the drop shot, and hitting his backhand down the line to Rafa's...now, Rafa and his team can make plans to neutralize this (or counteract these tactics).

Rafa will learn from this loss. Become more motivated. Realize again that Federer (if he forgot for some reason) can still defeat him on any surface. And will silently burn with rage at Roger's winning in his back yard.

The sleeper has awakened. Opinions?

Action Jackson
05-18-2009, 05:55 PM
Nothing new here.

It was the same after he lost in Hamburg in 07 and the same losing at Rome in 08, it did nothing to hamper Nadal at RG and this is no different.

Arkulari
05-18-2009, 05:56 PM
Rafa will win RG, this loss doesn't change a thing, he was going to before clay season started and he will now :shrug:

Ad Wim
05-18-2009, 05:58 PM
Cut these bullshit topics, please! This forum is getting ridiculous this way.

Rafa will win RG, period. The period after that you can open these kind of threads, because then it's getting interesting.

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Again, while I hate to see Rafa ever lose to Fed.... Opinions?

To be honest that's how much of your post I read. The first sentence suggested that it's going to be a bullshit piece by a Rafatard and you just contradicted yourself with the last word. So you don't want to see Roger beat Rafa and you are pissed he lost. Why the heck should I read the rest of your post? It's obvious you are going to trash anything I say in support of Roger and against the other guy you stalk in your dreams and real life... And I can't believe you are a Phillies fan with this attitude. I may have to rethink my support for that team.

prima donna
05-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Oh, heavens.

MacTheKnife
05-18-2009, 06:05 PM
To be honest that's how much of your post I read. The first sentence suggested that it's going to be a bullshit piece by a Rafatard and you just contradicted yourself with the last word. So you don't want to see Roger beat Rafa and you are pissed he lost. Why the heck should I read the rest of your post? It's obvious you are going to trash anything I say in support of Roger and against the other guy you stalk in your dreams and real life... And I can't believe you are a Phillies fan with this attitude. I may have to rethink my support for that team.

Spot on. Interesting how a lose always seems to be the best thing after it occurs. I'm sure if by some strange turn of fate that Nadal lost at RG, it would then be the best thing for a shot at his second straight Wimbledon.

alter ego
05-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Sorry mate, but you just failed logic class !

out_here_grindin
05-18-2009, 06:07 PM
I was just thinking about this earlier. I 100% agree with this topic. I regrettably have to agree that this will wake Nadal up and make it nearly impossible for someone to sneak up on him in RG.

and seriously guys if you don't read the rest of his thread than you can't even see that it is a well tought out topic.

Action Jackson
05-18-2009, 06:07 PM
Spot on. Interesting how a lose always seems to be the best thing after it occurs. I'm sure if by some strange turn of fate that Nadal lost at RG, it would then be the best thing for a shot at his second straight Wimbledon.

If he loses at RG, this server will blow up.

Certinfy
05-18-2009, 06:09 PM
Nadal will only lose RG if he has some very bad injury, besides that i honestly don't think anything else will effect him.

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:10 PM
Spot on. Interesting how a lose always seems to be the best thing after it occurs. I'm sure if by some strange turn of fate that Nadal lost at RG, it would then be the best thing for a shot at his second straight Wimbledon.

Nadal never loses unless he is tired, his leg is hurting or is suffering from something. He is like 1000-0 when he is completely healthy. All these other players like Fed, Djokovic, or Murray can't possibly be tired and lose to Rafa and they can't possibly beat a healthy Rafa. Rafa is always planning something with wins or losses. He is always thinking ahead. You know. This time according to our dear friend, he is preparing for RG and now that he has lost to Roger, he is not going to have any doubts he will beat him in RG.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Roger will or won't beat Rafa. I just don't care anymore after 3 years Roger has let me down. But, to come out and say, "I hate to see Rafa lose to Roger" and then try to make a credible argument it's just plain stupid.

MacTheKnife
05-18-2009, 06:10 PM
If he loses at RG, this server will blow up.

:yeah: I wouldn't even waste time trying to login for a few days.

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:11 PM
oh by the way, the mods should close this thread. This is obviously another effort to test the competence of our dear mods here.

sawan66278
05-18-2009, 06:13 PM
I was not saying this because he lost. I've felt this way every year. Call it what you will, but losing before a grand slam is actually, in many ways, a good thing. And that goes for any sport. As long as its not the last match or game:devil:

shotgun
05-18-2009, 06:13 PM
The only thing that this loss shows is that even a beast like Nadal is unable to win the four premier clay events in the same year.

Certinfy
05-18-2009, 06:13 PM
If he loses at RG, this server will blow up.HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Possibly the funniest thing i've read all year xD

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:15 PM
If Rafa loses to anyone at Roland Garros, Rafatards are going to go crazy. These people don't live their lives. They try to live Rafa's life. Sort of coming up with strategies for him and explaining everything he does.

prima donna
05-18-2009, 06:16 PM
I'm sure if by some strange turn of fate that Nadal lost at RG, it would then be the best thing for a shot at his second straight Wimbledon.
Nadal has used his successs on clay as a way to catapult himself into the Wimbledon finals, meaning he feeds off of the great momentum amassed at Roland Garros. How would losing a title that is literally his to lose serve as a positive going into Wimbledon ?

The pressure would only increase.

Action Jackson
05-18-2009, 06:18 PM
If Rafa loses to anyone at Roland Garros, Rafatards are going to go crazy. These people don't live their lives. They try to live Rafa's life. Sort of coming up with strategies for him and explaining everything he does.

Like I said, when it happens, try logging on and see how long it takes.

PD, I answered your question about the hype.

johnny_dhk
05-18-2009, 06:18 PM
Actually the best thing for Rafa would have been to skip Madrid. Because the only possible way for him to lose at the Roland Garros is to get himself injured. Why take the risk?

MacTheKnife
05-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Nadal has used his successs on clay as a way to catapult himself into the Wimbledon finals, meaning he feeds off of the great momentum amassed at Roland Garros. How would losing a title that is literally his to lose serve as a positive going into Wimbledon ?

The pressure would only increase.

Turn up the sarcasm meter PD. I was only stating what we'd be "reading" here if it happened.

Castafiore
05-18-2009, 06:25 PM
Sort of coming up with strategies for him and explaining everything he does.
Yeah, fans of other players never do that. :rolleyes:

I don't think that this defeat says a lot about Nadal's chances for RG but nobody is invincible.

out_here_grindin
05-18-2009, 06:27 PM
Like I said, when it happens, try logging on and see how long it takes.

PD, I answered your question about the hype.

Wouldn't be more likely that the Rafatards don't show their faces here?

prima donna
05-18-2009, 06:29 PM
Turn up the sarcasm meter PD. I was only stating what we'd be "reading" here if it happened.
Oh, sorry. I wasn't anticipating sarcasm from your end, given that you're generally a serious poster. :lol:

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:30 PM
Yeah, fans of other players never do that. :rolleyes:

I don't think that this defeat says a lot about Nadal's chances for RG but nobody is invincible.

Just because some people do it, doesn't make it right bro. We are not sheep here.

MacTheKnife
05-18-2009, 06:30 PM
Oh, sorry. I wasn't anticipating sarcasm from your end, given that you're generally a serious poster. :lol:

Sometimes I just go wild..:haha::haha:

On a more serious note. In no way, shape, or form is losing a high profile big time match for these guys ever a good thing. The differences in the levels of play for those guys is SO small that every little edge of any kind is a big deal. Any defeat over the other guy always provides a slight edge, and just a little more belief the next time they face off.

Castafiore
05-18-2009, 06:35 PM
Just because some people do it, doesn't make it right bro. We are not sheep here.
Did I say that that it's the right thing to do?

But just because some fans of ALL the top players do it, that hardly makes it relevant in this sort of thread. You just feel like singling out one fanbase on this day. I understand. Sometimes, you just have to gloat and vent and stuff. ;):p

rofe
05-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Blah, blah, blah....

The sleeper has awakened. Opinions?

So titles in MC, Barca and Rome this year and 4 consecutive RG slams make Nadal the sleeper for RG. And he is only awake now because he lost to Fed?

:haha:

Here I was naively thinking I had see it all in this forum.

scoobs
05-18-2009, 06:43 PM
Whether he'd won or lost, Nadal will roll up to Roland Garros and defend his title fairly easily.

prima donna
05-18-2009, 06:46 PM
Sometimes I just go wild..:haha::haha:

On a more serious note. In no way, shape, or form is losing a high profile big time match for these guys ever a good thing. The differences in the levels of play for those guys is SO small that every little edge of any kind is a big deal. Any defeat over the other guy always provides a slight edge, and just a little more belief the next time they face off.
Absolutely -- this philosophy is especially true when discussing players like Nadal and Federer. For instance, Nadal reacted as well as could be expected following his heartwrenching, 5-set Wimbledon defeat in 2007. Likewise, Federer handled defeat well both in '06 and '07, successfully defending his Wimbledon title against Nadal on both occasions.

However, it was much more difficult for him (Fed) to rebound following his '08 Wimbledon loss. I mean, the grass had up to that point been his stalemate. Result ? He proceeded to lose to Simon, Karlovic, and found himself embattled in a 5-set affair with Andreev at the USO, despite his status as 4-time defending champion. How Nadal would react were he to surrender his Roland Garros title remains to be seen, but it would be interesting to see how he would handle being toppled on his strongest surface.

Both players are confidence players. Federer uses momentum as a catalyst (which in many ways is why he performed so well despite the added pressure of having to defend insane winning streaks), whereas Nadal's refusal to wilt under torturous conditions is his strong point.

SheepleBuster
05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
Did I say that that it's the right thing to do?

But just because some fans of ALL the top players do it, that hardly makes it relevant in this sort of thread. You just feel like singling out one fanbase on this day. I understand. Sometimes, you just have to gloat and vent and stuff. ;):p

Those people are sheep. They have no mind of their own. These tennis players are entertainers. Stop worshiping them :)

sawan66278
05-18-2009, 07:34 PM
This has nothing to do with worship. Take Sampras. His losing to Edberg in the 1991 U.S. Open, IN HIS OWN WORDS, was the best thing to happen to him.

Let's face it: Rafa has not played with the same level of intensity during the clay season. And dominating for so long, eventually becomes a "been there, done that". I don't care who you are. Same for Federer...which is why the true champions take the losses as opportunities to learn.

For years, Uncle Toni has said that Roger is the better player. Now he has actual match proof to give his ward "chalkboard material"...if it were necessary.

Kiedis
05-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Nadal never loses unless he is tired, his leg is hurting or is suffering from something. He is like 1000-0 when he is completely healthy. All these other players like Fed, Djokovic, or Murray can't possibly be tired and lose to Rafa and they can't possibly beat a healthy Rafa. Rafa is always planning something with wins or losses. He is always thinking ahead. You know. This time according to our dear friend, he is preparing for RG and now that he has lost to Roger, he is not going to have any doubts he will beat him in RG.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Roger will or won't beat Rafa. I just don't care anymore after 3 years Roger has let me down. But, to come out and say, "I hate to see Rafa lose to Roger" and then try to make a credible argument it's just plain stupid.

Just before the final you insinuate here that Nadal had such good results because he doped. Obviously mods delete your shit. So you're a pathetic whiner and you aren't morally qualified to criticize anyone behavior.

Arkulari
05-18-2009, 08:08 PM
sometimes, players get outplayed
other times, they beat themselves

Rafa outplayed Roger at Hamburg last year, Roger outplayed Rafa on Madrid this year
excuses as tiredness and such are just bullshit :shrug:

Skyward
05-18-2009, 08:14 PM
2. Going into RG with no losses is not necessarily a good thing. Much like going undefeated in college basketball, unnecessary pressure builds up trying to go through a season without a loss. Because the pursuit of the "perfect" season is gone, so goes that pressure.



:shrug: Yes, you've figured it out, once in 3 years, when the pression becomes too big, he decides to let Fed win in the finals.

finishingmove
05-18-2009, 08:33 PM
i agree with point 2 in the OP.

sawan66278
05-18-2009, 10:56 PM
:shrug: Yes, you've figured it out, once in 3 years, when the pression becomes too big, he decides to let Fed win in the finals.

I NEVER said he lost on purpose...what I said was that it may, whether he wanted it or not, may be the best medicine for him to go into RG with more fire and fury than he's shown so far during the clay season. Bitter though the loss surely was.

It was certainly a wake-up call...not to just Rafa, but to all those fans and pundits saying RG was and is a foregone conclusion.

Clay Death
05-18-2009, 11:42 PM
Nothing new here.

It was the same after he lost in Hamburg in 07 and the same losing at Rome in 08, it did nothing to hamper Nadal at RG and this is no different.

excellent post on the part of op. i think she is absolutely spot on. Clay Monster needed a little touch of reality. this was it. he has to know that he has to bring it against the top players in the finals or the match can slip the other way.

that said, there is a reason why he is undefeated in the best of 5 sets on clay. he invariably finds his range and his rhythm in those matches. add to that the fact that its very difficult if not impossible to keep up the intensity and the focus required for 5 sets to get by him.

i am not happy with the way he has played this clay season but he has the required number of clay matches under his belt anyway. on the average, the French Open winner needs about 20 matches on clay going into the final. Clay Monster will have 25 matches under his belt on clay (this year) before he steps out on the court for the final.

that should be more than enough to get the job done. he knows the stakes and he knows the historical consequences of this French Open. watch for a couple of decent contests in the first 2-3 rounds but after that, it will be all business as usual for him. this is his playground.

finally, it doesnt matter who he has to face in the quarters and the semis. it just means that he will be better prepared for the final.

Clay Death
05-18-2009, 11:45 PM
This has nothing to do with worship. Take Sampras. His losing to Edberg in the 1991 U.S. Open, IN HIS OWN WORDS, was the best thing to happen to him.

Let's face it: Rafa has not played with the same level of intensity during the clay season. And dominating for so long, eventually becomes a "been there, done that". I don't care who you are. Same for Federer...which is why the true champions take the losses as opportunities to learn.

For years, Uncle Toni has said that Roger is the better player. Now he has actual match proof to give his ward "chalkboard material"...if it were necessary.

affirmative. well said and well done.

calvinhobbes
05-19-2009, 12:41 AM
i am not happy with the way he has played this clay season but he has the required number of clay matches under his belt anyway. on the average, the French Open winner needs about 20 matches on clay going into the final. Clay Monster will have 25 matches under his belt on clay (this year) before he steps out on the court for the final.

that should be more than enough to get the job done. he knows the stakes and he knows the historical consequences of this French Open. watch for a couple of decent contests in the first 2-3 rounds but after that, it will be all business as usual for him. this is his playground.

finally, it doesnt matter who he has to face in the quarters and the semis. it just means that he will be better prepared for the final.
Things are not so simple. The performance of any player in any tournament is a balance between mental control and physical condition. Rafa has abused his body during the current clay season in search of an elusive reward that did not come. This could easily turn against him at RG. Nothing to do with Federer. I believe that Djoko, Murray or even Delpo could take advantage of a player over-saturated with such tremendous over-grinding. . . . .

Ozone
05-19-2009, 12:47 AM
Nah I think its the best thing for Roger. Knows he can beat him however he wants to

luie
05-19-2009, 12:52 AM
It's good for both I think,rafa strives in adversity & federer strives in success.Once federer believes he has a shot against you he is a beast to put away especially @ slams.

Mechlan
05-19-2009, 12:57 AM
No. :lol:

Rafa was the heavy favorite going into RG before and he's the heavy favorite now. Madrid final would have cemented an undefeated clay court campaign for him this year. He doesn't get that, but he'll get RG anyway.

TennisViewer531
05-19-2009, 01:09 AM
It's the best thing for Rafa and for everyone because it makes this year's RG more interesting because there's now a smidgen of doubt on Nadal failing to defend the title...

Clay Death
05-19-2009, 01:17 AM
It's the best thing for Rafa and for everyone because it makes this year's RG more interesting because there's now a smidgen of doubt on Nadal failing to defend the title...

doubt or wishful thinking allowed to stretch a little?

MrChopin
05-19-2009, 01:34 AM
Losing-to-learn has been Fed's plan 2008-2009. Beware his new knowledge as he unveils it at RG!

moon language
05-19-2009, 01:36 AM
I don't think a loss can ever be construed as a "best" thing. Perhaps there are ways for the player to rationalize it as positive depending on the circumstances, but realistically a loss is, at best, not significant.

luie
05-19-2009, 01:42 AM
Losing-to-learn has been Fed's plan 2008-2009. Beware his new knowledge as he unveils it at RG!
:haha::haha::haha:fed has learned a lot he has.

turkjey5
05-19-2009, 03:29 AM
everyone's allowed a bad match every once in a while...he's gonna roll at Roland.

MacTheKnife
05-19-2009, 03:50 AM
No player thinks losing a match is a good thing. That is absolutely ridiculous. Most players "rationalize it away" after they lose by making statements like that, and try to take something positive out of it. But if you honestly believe some guy goes into a tournament thinking, man, it would be a good for me to lose this thing, then you're crazy. They just try to take away anything positive they can and learn from what went wrong. The one that wins however gains some confidence, and some extra belief for the next time they face a tough situation.
Anything other than that is just simple rationalizing.

Mimi
05-19-2009, 04:02 AM
are you serious? of course losing in Madrid is not a good thing, this will hit his confidence level :rolleyes:

vamosinator
05-19-2009, 05:02 AM
You learn a lot more from defeat than you do victory. If Nadal never lost this season then he'd learn nothing about self-improvement.

Frank Winkler
05-19-2009, 05:08 AM
I sort of agree with the primary post.
I don't think that Nadal's loss will affect his confidence for Roland Garros.
The conditions are quite different.
It will be best of three sets.
I think it will motivate Nadal, if that is possible. He seems allways motivated. However it showed him again that winning in sport is no sure thing and at the top
level its quite precarious.
The big difference is in Roger Federer, he will again be fully confident. Perhaps he will then not loose nervous point as at the Australian Open when he was ahead.
He will again be a confident front runner.
So I think Federer becomes a real threat to Nadal again, on clay.
Federer a hungry confident master, look out.
Nadal of course is still the favorite especially in a best of three on clay.
The only other guy close to them is Djokovic. But i think best of three are too much for him. Perhaps he will never win another grand slam, because of his health problems.
But these are the three favorites.

vamosinator
05-19-2009, 05:11 AM
Yes Federer will be more confident in Roland Garros than he would have been if he didn't win Madrid. However if Federer doesn't win Roland Garros (especially if its like last year's Final) then he will say 'I can beat Nadal in best of 3 sets but not best of 5' so it may have a negative effect on Federer thereafter if he thinks 3 set wins aren't even worthwhile as they bare no relevance to slam momentum.

kafemotor
05-19-2009, 05:31 AM
Basically, winning or losing matches tends to affect any player. But how deep in term of positive or negative, always depends on how the player in question constructs reality and acts accordingly. For a player like nadal whose worldview is very positive and his approach to reality is very rational, the defeat in madrid is more than acceptable. Before the tournament he already made notes, be it the altitude, surface or scheduling. And the fact that in final match, Roger played brilliantly and he barely can hang on with him just to add his acceptance. Now he is going to play RG, he then know this is the best time he can use to prove his rationality and be as competitive as before. And the result is only the consequence...

w78dexon_y
05-19-2009, 06:02 AM
:haha:hehe...since when the loss is the best thing???
Since yesterday afternoon??

:haha: .......................................... :haha:

madmax
05-19-2009, 08:34 AM
well, let's be honest here...Nadal's level of play this year on clay isn't that convincing and unbeatable. He was pretty much coasting through all these clay court battles and found himself struggling a bit in high altitude of Madrid. Yes, Paris clay is much slower and more traditional than Madrid's, but you never want to lose a match on your favorite surface to your biggest opponent and provide him a confidence boost..because you know Fed master thrives on confidence and when he is feeling relaxed and not pushed arround, he easily can become Jesus Fed - an ultimate unbeatable tennis machine. Nadal surely doesn't wanna wake up that beast inside of him - even on his best surface he won't be able to beat that version of Fed

vamosinator
05-19-2009, 08:55 AM
^^^But Nadal beat Federer when Federer was a beast years ago, so I don't think it matters how well Federer plays, Federer has never beaten Nadal at Roland Garros even when Federer was at his 100%best.

habibko
05-19-2009, 09:12 AM
^^^But Nadal beat Federer when Federer was a beast years ago, so I don't think it matters how well Federer plays, Federer has never beaten Nadal at Roland Garros even when Federer was at his 100%best.

Nadal has been a beast this year and Federer has beaten him, so what? of course it matters how well Federer plays, Fed hasn't been able to win RG because he wasn't able to sustain that level for long enough and because Nadal was rock solid, any changes in this equation and the result could change, if Nadal let his guard down a little bit and Federer could summon his best JesusFed game longer than he did before, Fed would win RG.

it's not like Fed never had chances in RG, look at how many break points he had in every match, if he won more break points than he lost and served as well as he did in Madrid, it's very possible.

johnny_dhk
05-19-2009, 09:19 AM
Nadal has been a beast this year and Federer has beaten him, so what? of course it matters how well Federer plays, Fed hasn't been able to win RG because he wasn't able to sustain that level for long enough and because Nadal was rock solid, any changes in this equation and the result could change, if Nadal let his guard down a little bit and Federer could summon his best JesusFed game longer than he did before, Fed would win RG.

it's not like Fed never had chances in RG, look at how many break points he had in every match, if he won more break points than he lost and served as well as he did in Madrid, it's very possible.

Nadal struggled to return Federina's serves because of the high altitude- the same reason why Roddick was able to take a set off Federina on clay. At the Roland Garros, Nadal will put pressure on each of Federina's service games no matter how well he is serving.

habibko
05-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Nadal will put pressure on each of Federina's service games no matter how well he is serving.

who's Federina? :retard:

and that's :bs: if Federer served at a high level Nadal will struggle to return as much as anyone else, yes it's harder to do than in Madrid but it's not impossible.

that said, I don't think Federer can pull it off, but I didn't think he could pull Madrid off either so...

Mimi
05-19-2009, 09:32 AM
i do think Roger has great chance to win in RG this year, seems only Rafa can challlenge him, whats more being a 4 times reigning champiion may add more pressure for rafa, and now besides Roger, Nole is also threatening him, I think either Rafa, Roger or Nole will win the FO:cool:

johnny_dhk
05-19-2009, 09:38 AM
I think either Rafa, Roger or Nole will win the FO:cool:

This must be one of the funniest predictions ever. Why not say that one of the 128 participants will win the FO?

miura
05-19-2009, 09:39 AM
Nadal struggled to return Federina's serves because of the high altitude- the same reason why Roddick was able to take a set off Federina on clay. At the Roland Garros, Nadal will put pressure on each of Federina's service games no matter how well he is serving.
:spit:

get the fuck out of here!

Mimi
05-19-2009, 09:42 AM
my dear friend, uncle Toni is wise, he taught Rafa never to be so confident, anything can happen, injury/a bad play, its not 100% sure that rafa will wini, i.e. everyone thought Roger was going to win wimby 08 coz he won it for the 5 consecutive times, but at last, who won? so never say never, never be sure ;)


This must be one of the funniest predictions ever. Why not say that one of the 128 participants will win the FO?

heya
05-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I'm so bored with excuses from the players and their useless friends, "altitude...courts are different colors, bounces, air is dry..." Ok, why play on it and why play in Davis Cup on your the favorite courts?

These posts are cowardly:
http://twitter.com/dougspreen: "Roger is just Roger."

SoAZtec: rafa played 4 hrs of competitive tennis the night before and obviously he wasn't 100% yesterday http://twitter.com/andyroddick Hypocrite Roddick: "i dont agree with this point... if his style gets credit for wearing other people down then it needs to be pointed out that sometimes he is gonna pay the consequences of physical encounters as well.... all part of the game and does not take away from feds win"

sawan66278
05-19-2009, 01:04 PM
No player thinks losing a match is a good thing. That is absolutely ridiculous. Most players "rationalize it away" after they lose by making statements like that, and try to take something positive out of it. But if you honestly believe some guy goes into a tournament thinking, man, it would be a good for me to lose this thing, then you're crazy. They just try to take away anything positive they can and learn from what went wrong. The one that wins however gains some confidence, and some extra belief for the next time they face a tough situation.
Anything other than that is just simple rationalizing.

No one is saying that it was a "good" thing per se. However, it may turn out to be the best thing for Rafa going into RG. One the one hand, it would have been nice to defeat Roger even with his change in tactics. HOWEVER, as Clay Death and others have mentioned, Rafa has not played his "A" game this entire season. And, even at a subconscious level, he probably thought he didn't need to or was unable to muster the fight/fear to do so.

Rafa is unlike Roger in that he doesn't believe that victory is his entitlement. Roger looks at losses as almost "disrespectful" to his being the chosen one. Rafa has always looked at himself as the underdog (even when he's not). Now, he can actually say: if Roger plays well and I don't, I will be the underdog...I better bring the rain and fire from the first to the last ball.

You learn a lot more from defeat than you do victory. If Nadal never lost this season then he'd learn nothing about self-improvement.

Exactly.

I sort of agree with the primary post.
I don't think that Nadal's loss will affect his confidence for Roland Garros.
The conditions are quite different.
It will be best of three sets.
I think it will motivate Nadal, if that is possible. He seems allways motivated. However it showed him again that winning in sport is no sure thing and at the top
level its quite precarious.
The big difference is in Roger Federer, he will again be fully confident. Perhaps he will then not loose nervous point as at the Australian Open when he was ahead.
He will again be a confident front runner.
So I think Federer becomes a real threat to Nadal again, on clay.
Federer a hungry confident master, look out.
Nadal of course is still the favorite especially in a best of three on clay.
The only other guy close to them is Djokovic. But i think best of three are too much for him. Perhaps he will never win another grand slam, because of his health problems.
But these are the three favorites.

Roger has ALWAYS been a threat to Rafa. The final last year was Rafa at the peak of his powers (much like Fed at the Masters Cup in 2007). However, in most of these matches (and matches in general), you have games and sets of "A" level play...not whole matches. Last year, it was "A" level the whole way for Rafa.

History has shown: Federer has had many opportunities to defeat Rafa on clay (and Rafa has had his chances on grass and hard that he did not avail himself of as well). If Roger can bring his "A" game for an entire match: too good. But, no one can on clay...and no one can against Rafa on that surface for a best of five sets.

This loss will push Rafa to compete at the "A" level...and that should be enough to bag his fifth RG. And, this loss should shake him up to realize: his "A" level has not been present for huge chunks of the clay season (perhaps even somewhat of a carry over from the "personal problems" alluded to in Miami).

Venle
05-19-2009, 01:14 PM
I couldn't help thinking about Hamburg 2007 :o

FlameOn
05-19-2009, 03:03 PM
I definitely think it's the best thing for Rafa. It's good that he chose his non-invincible moment in an event on clay just before the Grand Slam. It'll just renew his focus.

Not only that but Federer still has the pressure of equalling Sampras every slam he plays from now on and at the French Open there's the added pressure of a career-slam.

Nadal in 3 in the final. :)

Clay Death
05-19-2009, 03:48 PM
No one is saying that it was a "good" thing per se. However, it may turn out to be the best thing for Rafa going into RG. One the one hand, it would have been nice to defeat Roger even with his change in tactics. HOWEVER, as Clay Death and others have mentioned, Rafa has not played his "A" game this entire season. And, even at a subconscious level, he probably thought he didn't need to or was unable to muster the fight/fear to do so.

Rafa is unlike Roger in that he doesn't believe that victory is his entitlement. Roger looks at losses as almost "disrespectful" to his being the chosen one. Rafa has always looked at himself as the underdog (even when he's not). Now, he can actually say: if Roger plays well and I don't, I will be the underdog...I better bring the rain and fire from the first to the last ball.



Exactly.



Roger has ALWAYS been a threat to Rafa. The final last year was Rafa at the peak of his powers (much like Fed at the Masters Cup in 2007). However, in most of these matches (and matches in general), you have games and sets of "A" level play...not whole matches. Last year, it was "A" level the whole way for Rafa.

History has shown: Federer has had many opportunities to defeat Rafa on clay (and Rafa has had his chances on grass and hard that he did not avail himself of as well). If Roger can bring his "A" game for an entire match: too good. But, no one can on clay...and no one can against Rafa on that surface for a best of five sets.

This loss will push Rafa to compete at the "A" level...and that should be enough to bag his fifth RG. And, this loss should shake him up to realize: his "A" level has not been present for huge chunks of the clay season (perhaps even somewhat of a carry over from the "personal problems" alluded to in Miami).


again an excellent post. here is the deal: he has won everything on clay and more. his 5 monte carlo opens in a row is a record for the ages in modern tennis. 4 rome masters titles is a historical first. 5 barcelona titles in a row is nothing short of brilliant. 81 match wins in a row on clay is also special.

he is 45-0 lifetime on clay in the best of 5 sets foremats. his fellow players are actually using words like "impossible" when talking about how hard it is to beat him at Roland Garros. thats right. they are not saying that they have a chance. they are actually saying that it is impossible. his record there and his performance there spells that out clearly.

as long as he is healthy, he is going run over them. we should have learned that from the last 4 french opens. it doesnt matter who is in his 1/2. he is used to having monster draws and used to having to deal with Djokovic and then Federer in the final. it only prepares him better for the final.

Fed lost the last Wimby because the Clay Monster actually gained ground on him on grass. nobody has gained any ground at all on the Clay Monster on clay. he has been dealing with knee issues since last november and he has been winning the big events anyway.

he has clearly not looked sharp on clay this but that has not stopped him from taking Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Rome anyway. so even at 70% capacity, they cant get by him.

i dont want to take away that win at Madrid from Fed but Nadal has won everything in sight which means that he has gone deep in every event he has played. isnt it a bit inhuman to expect him to win 4 grueling clay events in 4 weeks at about 70% capacity. well he almost pulled it off anyway.

it was a good win for Fed. it gives the rivalry some more steam and it givs us a little more to look forward to. we may just see another great Wimby final between these 2. Fed was down and out and it gives him something to smile about. its good for the rivalry.

the guy did complain about some knee pain BEFORE his match against Djokovic in Madrid. and it takes him over 4 hours to derail Djokovic. it just might be that he was spent both mentally and physically and had the possible knee issue in the back of his mind as well. all this with Roland Garros approaching.

just put yourself in his shoes for a moment. what would you have done? i took another look at that match and this time in its entirety. lets just say that he may have saved himself by losing this final. i am NOT saying that he tanked it but he could have fought a lot harder and he did not.

Fed, for his part, played an aggressive contest and his shots found their mark. Nadal helped him a great deal. for instance, better than a staggering 30% of Nadal`s returns never found the court. they were either out or into the net. that is practically giving that match away. you know damn well that you can beat absolutely no one if you return like that, let alone a top player.

compare that with his last Roland Garros campaign where he broke serve 66% of the time. that is right. for every 3 times they served, he broke them 2 times. sick? its beyond sick.

he really has nothing more to prove on clay. quite frankly i dont see how he was not quite worn out. not just from having won so much in just 4 short weeks but also from the 4+ hours match against Djokovic the previous night. keep in mind that his match didnt not finish until around 8 pm or better the night previous. there is no way he would have been able to recover fully.

for him, the realy glory is in Paris. he plays the clay circuit to give him about 18-19 matches on clay which is sufficient preparation for him going into Paris. with 6 more matches at Roland Garros under his belt, he has all that he needs to go into battle for the final. historically, you need 20 matches on dirt before you step out on the centre court to play the final if you want to take the title.

translation: best get grounded in reality. this is neither the time nor the place where Nadal is going to lose. all the players know that. and if you want to beat him on clay, catch him in a best of 3 sets foremat and hope that he is a little off or injured or both. or a little tired which means all three--little off, injured, and worn out. even at 70% capacity, the guy is a hard to bring down.

i am never happy with him anyway but i have taken another look at that match. i believe that the vast majority here will probably share my opinion here with this post.

fred perry
05-19-2009, 08:49 PM
I don't think Nadal cares that he lost Madrid...it's psychological. Now he is going to be hungry in Paris and Fed will be complacent.

luie
05-20-2009, 01:09 AM
People are reading too much into this match as I said before the match it means nothing overall but I sinced changed my view it means nothing for RG 09 but seeing fed change his attitude & tactics it gives me hope for fed's future in the game at least be competitive with the other top guys like novak & murray,nadal etc.Fed came in this match to win irrespective of his opponent or mental advantage & physical state.Thats the positive aspect many fed fans cling too. Many were beginning to doubt that he would be mentally prepared to compete against the other top dogs defeat after defeat after defeat. Even federer has realised this and not over celebrate knowing fully well its just a start & the hard work now begins with the added bonus off less pressure from the media. Its just a start but if he backs it up with a major title or many smaller victories over his top rivals he will be OK.

gulzhan
05-20-2009, 03:14 AM
It happened once :shrug: and Federer was way more confident back in 2007 than now. So, I'd say Madrid means nothing in terms of psychology (it means something in terms of money though :tape: :lol:). The outcome of RG depends on Rafa's physical form, not on anything else.

w78dexon_y
05-20-2009, 03:29 AM
the guy did complain about some knee pain BEFORE his match against Djokovic in Madrid. and it takes him over 4 hours to derail Djokovic..

Derail?? Saving 3MP is a "derail". lol
Rafa was outplayed in that s/f! Look at the numbers: they are clearly in favour of Djoker. So, that match shows that he was lucky. However, the luck doesn't always do the job.

peterparker
05-20-2009, 03:43 AM
It happened once :shrug: and Federer was way more confident back in 2007 than now. So, I'd say Madrid means nothing in terms of psychology (it means something in terms of money though :tape: :lol:). The outcome of RG depends on Rafa's physical form, not on anything else.

well said. Expect another destroying RG from nadal. :worship:

out_here_grindin
05-31-2009, 09:07 PM
It sure was. What a lame thread this turns out to be.

MrChopin
05-31-2009, 09:46 PM
It sure was. What a lame thread this turns out to be.

:haha: :haha:

MTF is the most vicious forum I have ever frequented. It is unreal the number of threads that get bumped to smear losses in each others' faces. Not that I disagree with the bump in this case.

YEMI
05-31-2009, 10:13 PM
:haha: :haha:

MTF is the most vicious forum I have ever frequented. It is unreal the number of threads that get bumped to smear losses in each others' faces. Not that I disagree with the bump in this case.

:rocker::rocker::rocker: and we pledge to continue gloating excessively when our favourites put a beat down on a rival :devil::devil: even though we know it will be bumped for payback

dodo
05-31-2009, 10:46 PM
:haha: :haha:

MTF is the most vicious forum I have ever frequented. It is unreal the number of threads that get bumped to smear losses in each others' faces. Not that I disagree with the bump in this case.
your sig just went from mildly amusing to hilarious

Acer
05-31-2009, 10:49 PM
Lol

MacTheKnife
05-31-2009, 10:51 PM
:haha: :haha:

MTF is the most vicious forum I have ever frequented. It is unreal the number of threads that get bumped to smear losses in each others' faces. Not that I disagree with the bump in this case.

Actually I was expecting this one. The next thing will be loss to Soderling helps to prepare him for Wimbledon. I said it at time and I'll say it again, no loss is ever a good thing. Players and fans only rationalize them away with that BS.