Madrid R2: Murray def. Bolelli 7-6(9) 6-4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Madrid R2: Murray def. Bolelli 7-6(9) 6-4

EnriqueIG8
05-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Solid win for the new #3.
Bolelli hit a little bit too many UE's but played a good match though, too bad he returns like shit.

biological
05-12-2009, 08:44 PM
:sad: I had high hopes for this match :sad:

ClaudiuS
05-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Bolelli's returns are just hidious.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Bolelli has the mental strength of a mockingbird.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Nice job Blowlelli.

Jeez what a loser.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 08:45 PM
50 UEs, Bolelli? Really?

pica_pica
05-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Great win from Murray especially the tie-break :worship:
And great effort from Simone :yeah:

RIboy
05-12-2009, 08:47 PM
Bolelli's returns are just hideous.

at least he has hot chick :D

Lullaby
05-12-2009, 08:47 PM
Good win for clay king muzza - he felt it was his best win to date on clay after

Clydey
05-12-2009, 08:47 PM
High quality match. Bolelli played out of his skin. That UE stat was a joke. Fuck knows who put those together.

Andi-M
05-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Not so bad from Murray he wasnt overly defensive as he was in Rome, he wasnt great but I think its a decent start from the number #3 against a good oppenant.

ClaudiuS
05-12-2009, 08:48 PM
at least he has hot chick :D

yeah. :D

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 08:49 PM
As long as there are generous mugs to gift him points, games and sets, Murray will keep wining. But that game "chase the ball around" won't cut a deal against serious competition. I would love to see Murray-Federer SF. It should be hilarious.

philosophicalarf
05-12-2009, 08:50 PM
UE stats here clearly counting forced errors, serve returns, everything.

Bolelli played out of his skin, but beating Murray in a tiebreak is borderling Mission Impossible these days. Missed all four bps, but that's not surprising - he's got the worst bp conversion in the top150, and Murray had huge serves on three of them.

Murray struggled to find his timing, serve was awful first set too. Got some more confidence as the serve improved in the 2nd.

Smoke944
05-12-2009, 08:50 PM
Bolelli has the mental strength of a mockingbird.

Yep. Sure he can't return well and all, but that has nothing to do with how he lost the match. He's just a mental midget that has no concentration during the important moments.

tangerine_dream
05-12-2009, 08:52 PM
Doesn't look so good for the new world number three if he's having a hard time putting guys like Bolelli away.

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 08:53 PM
50 UEs, Bolelli? Really?

And 49 of them were FH into the net. 48 from the couple of meters from the net. :haha:

ClaudiuS
05-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Bolelli played well, and he still lost the match in straight sets.

So that sums it up... awful stuff.

philosophicalarf
05-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Doesn't look so good for the new world number three if he's having a hard time putting guys like Bolelli away.

First match - plenty guys are struggling here, there's not enough practice court time available. Murray also did the same vs Fognini in Monte Carlo (Bolelli was far better than him today), and of course vs Monaco in Rome.

ChinoRios4Ever
05-12-2009, 08:56 PM
lucky one #3 :yeah:

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 08:59 PM
I don't know what's more pathetic, Bolleli missing those crucial points with easy forehands to the net or Murray shouting "Come on!" after every one of them.

Steelq
05-12-2009, 08:59 PM
If Bolelli is not such a mental midget,he would clinh this one in straights.Murray will have a hard time against any decent clay courter.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:00 PM
And 49 of them were FH into the net. 48 from the couple of meters from the net. :haha:

He didn't hit 50 UEs. Bolelli played an excellent match, so whoever put that stat together is taking the piss. Think about it. Murray won 83 points and 22 of those were winners. So you're trying to tell me Bolelli only hit 11 forced errors in the entire match? Whoever put the stat together was clearly combining both forced and unforced errors.

Fumus
05-12-2009, 09:01 PM
First match - plenty guys are struggling here, there's not enough practice court time available. Murray also did the same vs Fognini in Monte Carlo (Bolelli was far better than him today), and of course vs Monaco in Rome.

Like you said Murray for the title.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:02 PM
I don't know what's more pathetic, Bolleli missing those crucial points with easy forehands to the net or Murray shouting "Come on!" after every one of them.

They were big points. Lots of players do that, including Nadal. Should a player only celebrate a big point after he hits a clean winner? Here was me thinking that an error is worth just as much as a winner. A point is a point is a point.

Paolo
05-12-2009, 09:02 PM
Bolelli has a fantastic forehand... but too many errors in easy shot...

scarecrows
05-12-2009, 09:02 PM
every fucking game with Murray's serve it was either 0-30 or 15-30
Simo:mad:

amonb
05-12-2009, 09:09 PM
As long as there are generous mugs to gift him points, games and sets, Murray will keep wining. But that game "chase the ball around" won't cut a deal against serious competition. I would love to see Murray-Federer SF. It should be hilarious.It won't be half as funny as watching Fed try to play tennis against Murray at Indian Wells this year!!! :rolls:

Lopez
05-12-2009, 09:10 PM
They were big points. Lots of players do that, including Nadal.

And it shows a lack of class each time :shrug:

Bolelli is frustrating, the guy has got game but he can't put it together.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 09:11 PM
Yep. Sure he can't return well and all, but that has nothing to do with how he lost the match. He's just a mental midget that has no concentration during the important moments.

Agree.

And 49 of them were FH into the net. 48 from the couple of meters from the net. :haha:

Yeah, I only got the second set on TV (they were showing Frauderer before) but I can imagine the pattern was the same for the whole match.

I don't know what's more pathetic, Bolleli missing those crucial points with easy forehands to the net or Murray shouting "Come on!" after every one of them.

:lol:

A Nadull fan complaining about celebrating opponent's mistakes?

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 09:12 PM
They were big points. Lots of players do that, including Nadal. Should a player only celebrate a big point after he hits a clean winner? Here was me thinking that an error is worth just as much as a winner. A point is a point is a point.

Too bad your player thinks like you do.

If you think that cheering your opponent's big errors the whole match through and that Murray isn't the clear ATP leader in this regard... well, you're the definition of bias then.

betowiec
05-12-2009, 09:12 PM
good job Andy

Sunset of Age
05-12-2009, 09:14 PM
Congrats, Muzza! :hatoff:

Following two matches on a livestream (thanks so much, EnriqueIG8! :hug:) isn't an easy thing to do, especially not if it's your fav playing the other match, so I didn't see much of it. I understand that Muzza is still not in the best of forms though. I saw a few serves / not impressive.

Nice job Blowlelli.

:spit:

As long as there are generous mugs to gift him points, games and sets, Murray will keep wining. But that game "chase the ball around" won't cut a deal against serious competition. I would love to see Murray-Federer SF. It should be hilarious.

It wasn´t that easy was it? :awww:
I'm sure Muzza had to do a bit of work himself as well. And eh... a Muzza-Feds SF? Yeah I guess 'hilarious' might indeed be the good way to put it. :help:

Doesn't look so good for the new world number three if he's having a hard time putting guys like Bolelli away.

If I'm not mistaken the world #2 - and perhaps upcoming #3 - had quite a job putting away such a fellow as well. :angel:

l_mac
05-12-2009, 09:14 PM
U
Bolelli played out of his skin, but beating Murray in a tiebreak is borderling Mission Impossible these days.

Is it? Did't he lose a TB to Nadal just a few weeks ago? Just 2 matches ago.

Andy seemed very pleased with his game tonight (in the Sky interview) I thought he was okay.

Corey Feldman
05-12-2009, 09:15 PM
well played #3

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 09:20 PM
He didn't hit 50 UEs. Bolelli played an excellent match, so whoever put that stat together is taking the piss. Think about it. Murray won 83 points and 22 of those were winners. So you're trying to tell me Bolelli only hit 11 forced errors in the entire match? Whoever put the stat together was clearly combining both forced and unforced errors.

FGS Clydey, Bolelli could have won every single Murray service game, he had 0:30 and 15:30 on almost all of them, he hit like a dozen of FHs into the net at every bigger point. Murray second service in large part of the first set was barely passing the net but Bolelli was still standing 5 meters behind the baseline. Who cares if they they were 50 UEs or 40 UEs with 10 FE. Murray gave himself on a platter, Simone was too kind (or too stupid) to take what was offered.
I don't think there is a player who pisses me so much lately as Murray on clay. I know he has the tools, ability, shots and strategy to play solid on clay and he still choses to play like this. Unbelievable.:mad:

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Too bad your player thinks like you do.

If you think that cheering your opponent's big errors the whole match through and that Murray isn't the clear ATP leader in this regard... well, you're the definition of bias then.

Nadal does it too, so what's with the selective memory? Remember in Toronto when Murray played Nadal and Rafa did the infamous celebration where he started shaking his head furiously and pounding his chest (someone had an animated GIF of it on here)? That was after a Murray error. Nadal is "guilty" of it as much as anyone.

You still haven't explained your logic. Why is it classless? You don't get more points if you hit a winner. A point is a point. Seriously, by all means explain what's so wrong with cheering after an error(especially on big points) ?

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:27 PM
FGS Clydey, Bolelli could have won every single Murray service game, he had 0:30 and 15:30 on almost all of them, he hit like a dozen of FHs into the net at every bigger point. Murray second service in large part of the first set was barely passing the net but Bolelli was still standing 5 meters behind the baseline. Who cares if they they were 50 UEs or 40 UEs with 10 FE. Murray gave himself on a platter, Simone was too kind (or too stupid) to take what was offered.
I don't think there is a player who pisses me so much lately as Murray on clay. I know he has the tools, ability, shots and strategy to play solid on clay and he still choses to play like this. Unbelievable.:mad:

Bolelli didn't win those games because he isn't good enough. Murray had countless opportunities too, so I don't see your point. Bolelli plays a high risk game because he takes big cuts, so he is going to make errors and he is going to also create some opportunities. Whether or not a player is up 0-30 a lot throughout a match is irrelevant. If they don't take their opportunities, that's tough shit. It's not bad luck. It's poor play. That's why Bolelli is ranked where he is and that's why Murray is ranked where he is. That's one of the differences. That aside, Bolelli played an excellent match overall. It took Murray over two hours to break. That doesn't happen very often.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 09:31 PM
Why is it classless? You don't get more points if you hit a winner. A point is a point. Seriously, by all means explain what's so wrong with cheering after an error(especially on big points) ?

Cheering after an opponent retires with injury is ok, a win is a win right :shrug:?

Babolat - Dan
05-12-2009, 09:31 PM
Well done Andy. :)

Guga_fan
05-12-2009, 09:32 PM
Bolelli really is a mental midget, he could have won in straights, but lost in straights. His forehands at the net in particular were very annoying, and his return was awful.
Murray played fine, and it was enough to win, but his clay form is not that impressive.

star
05-12-2009, 09:32 PM
They were big points. Lots of players do that, including Nadal. Should a player only celebrate a big point after he hits a clean winner? Here was me thinking that an error is worth just as much as a winner. A point is a point is a point.

I think usually players only cheer after an error they believe they have forced with their game. I've seen Federer yell Allez after an error too. Generally, players don't cheer after a completely bonehead unforced error.

Of course, there are always exceptions. When things are tight and you've escaped by the skin of your teeth, it's easy to feel like cheering -- even if it's a totally unforced error -- say a shanked forehand. :)

Voo de Mar
05-12-2009, 09:33 PM
Bolelli fucked up two easy forehands in the crucial moments of the tie-break :o
Italian thing, Murray won 7-6(9) 6-4 also against Fognini in Monte Carlo :D

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 09:33 PM
Nadal is "guilty" of it as much as anyone.

Wow. Your fanboyism is reaching new heights. Does Nadal, or anyone else for that matter, do it after every single important point.

You still haven't explained your logic. Why is it classless? You don't get more points if you hit a winner. A point is a point. Seriously, by all means explain what's so wrong with cheering after an error(especially on big points) ?

You're 26 years old. Do you really need me to explain that? I mean, really??

yellowboy906
05-12-2009, 09:34 PM
Too bad your player thinks like you do.

If you think that cheering your opponent's big errors the whole match through and that Murray isn't the clear ATP leader in this regard... well, you're the definition of bias then.

yeah i think murray leads in this regard.........and i love it.
murray hater, suck it up. :wavey:

vidanhv
05-12-2009, 09:39 PM
Much much more work on clay needed for Muzza to become confident there. Important win, tho. Keep it up.

yellowboy906
05-12-2009, 09:39 PM
Cheering after an opponent retires with injury is ok, a win is a win right :shrug:?

good point but you may cheer on opponent's bad play. cheering after opponent retires with injury is barbaric act.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:39 PM
Cheering after an opponent retires with injury is ok, a win is a win right :shrug:?

That's different. Your opponent is hurt. Cheering someone's injury, which could affect their season, is not the same as cheering an error.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 09:41 PM
yeah i think murray leads in this regard.........and i love it.
murray hater, suck it up. :wavey:

I love it how some people think I'm a Murray hater just because I criticise one aspect of his "game", and also think I'm a Rafatard because of the flag next to my username. Well done kids.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 09:41 PM
Wow. Your fanboyism is reaching new heights. Does Nadal, or anyone else for that matter, do it after every single important point.

Nadal does.

You're being as biased as him.

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 09:42 PM
Bolelli didn't win those games because he isn't good enough. Murray had countless opportunities too, so I don't see your point. Bolelli plays a high risk game because he takes big cuts, so he is going to make errors and he is going to also create some opportunities. Whether or not a player is up 0-30 a lot throughout a match is irrelevant. If they don't take their opportunities, that's tough shit. It's not bad luck. It's poor play. That's why Bolelli is ranked where he is and that's why Murray is ranked where he is. That's one of the differences. That aside, Bolelli played an excellent match overall. It took Murray over two hours to break. That doesn't happen very often.

I'll sum it up for you: Murray still plays bad on clay - way below his abbilities.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 09:44 PM
That's different. Your opponent is hurt. Cheering someone's injury, which could affect their season, is not the same as cheering an error.

A win is a win is a win :wavey:

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Wow. Your fanboyism is reaching new heights. Does Nadal, or anyone else for that matter, do it after every single important point.

Um, yes. Have you ever actually seen a Nadal match? He is always animated after an important point, no matter how he wins it. When do you ever see Nadal stroll away nonchalantly after he wins a big point?



You're 26 years old. Do you really need me to explain that? I mean, really??

Yes. Acting incredulous doesn't really help your cause. So go ahead and explain why it's wrong instead of trying to evade.

I'd bet good money that you'll find some way to avoid the question.

Roddickominator
05-12-2009, 09:46 PM
50 UE's in 23 games :lol:

Murray best shape up if he wants to make a dent in this tournament....Bolelli would have had this if had half a brain.

«Ivan»
05-12-2009, 09:46 PM
state of tennis as a game reached the lowest point in it's history.players like murray are 3rd!

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:47 PM
A win is a win is a win :wavey:

It's not the same. No one is getting hurt after an UE. It's not the same as cheering because your opponent is injured. And you know it's not.

l_mac
05-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Nadal does.

You're being as biased as him.
How would you know? You claim never to watch Nadal play.
Um, yes. Have you ever actually seen a Nadal match? He is always animated after an important point, no matter how he wins it. When do you ever see Nadal stroll away nonchalantly after he wins a big point?


The Rafa fadom is constantly bemoaning his lack of vamos/fistpump this season. :awww:

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Nadal does.

You're being as biased as him.

We must have different TVs. I'll buy you yours, maybe yours has some good films.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:49 PM
Nadal does.

You're being as biased as him.

I haven't denied that Murray cheers UEs. I just don't see a problem with it. A point is a point. :shrug:

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:51 PM
The Rafa fadom is constantly bemoaning his lack of vamos/fistpump this season. :awww:

You were the subject of my e-mail to Sky today.

yellowboy906
05-12-2009, 09:53 PM
state of tennis as a game reached the lowest point in it's history.players like murray are 3rd!

wait, is that you in your avatar?:o it got to be you cause you might have the same tennis knowlegde as a cat.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 09:53 PM
It's not the same. No one is getting hurt after an UE. It's not the same as cheering because your opponent is injured. And you know it's not.

You say a point is a point is a point. What if you're opponent hits the UE because he's being hampered by injury? What if he hits an UE because the court is shit and it gives a bad bounce, what if the bad court causes him to slip and fall? Cheer-worthy? A point is a point is point :wavey:.

tangerine_dream
05-12-2009, 09:54 PM
"Murray not focused on rankings." (http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ap-murray-no3&prov=ap&type=lgns) What a relief!

l_mac
05-12-2009, 09:56 PM
You were the subject of my e-mail to Sky today.

Yeah, so I saw :lol:

But I think Petchey is in Madrid commentating this week, and Fleming is the studio guest. :awww:

«Ivan»
05-12-2009, 09:57 PM
euro(british)sport-"World number three Andy Murray dug deep to beat an impressive Simone Bolelli".heavens,open!!!

how many winners had no.3 today?3-4,4-6,0-3?

«Ivan»
05-12-2009, 09:58 PM
wait, is that you in your avatar?:o it got to be you cause you might have the same tennis knowlegde as a cat.

:kiss:

Roddickominator
05-12-2009, 09:58 PM
You say a point is a point is a point. What if you're opponent hits the UE because he's being hampered by injury? What if he hits an UE because the court is shit and it gives a bad bounce, what if the bad court causes him to slip and fall? Cheer-worthy? A point is a point is point :wavey:.

It's always classless behavior to celebrate after a UE from an opponent....everyone knows that(or so I thought). You celebrate when you EARN a point....which is by attacking and making a nice shot. Not just because your opponent shanked a forehand off the frame of the racket after a 10+ shot rally.

The egos of Murray and Nadal lead them to believe that "I just chased down so many balls....my opponent cannot get it past me....my great abilities caused this error". So in their minds they just hit a winner.

yellowboy906
05-12-2009, 09:58 PM
You say a point is a point is a point. What if you're opponent hits the UE because he's being hampered by injury? What if he hits an UE because the court is shit and it gives a bad bounce, what if the bad court causes him to slip and fall? Cheer-worthy? A point is a point is point :wavey:.

are you stupid? why would you care about the "what if" for your opponent? i bet you're a bad player. you only focus on how to construct a point to beat your opponent.:o

Clydey
05-12-2009, 09:58 PM
You say a point is a point is a point. What if you're opponent hits the UE because he's being hampered by injury? What if he hits an UE because the court is shit and it gives a bad bounce, what if the bad court causes him to slip and fall? Cheer-worthy? A point is a point is point :wavey:.

It's different. You're taking what I said to extremes and allowing it to encompass every possible scenario. What if your opponent dies when they hit an UE? What if a plane crashes into your opponent, killing him as he hits his shot?

I obviously didn't mean that it's ok to cheer no matter what the circumstances are, and you know I didn't. You're taking what I said far too literally purely to be awkward. Ever said out loud in anger "I could kill that guy"? Presumably you don't then go and shoot the guy. Not everything has to be taken so literally.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 09:59 PM
Yes. Acting incredulous doesn't really help your cause. So go ahead and explain why it's wrong instead of trying to evade.

I'd bet good money that you'll find some way to avoid the question.

If you read back a few posts you'll find some other posts where other people have already addressed the issue, but since you're so eager to hear it from my mouth, I'll spell it out for you:

Consistently cheering your opponent's blatant UEs is very rude, because it feels like you're rubbing it in their faces how they suck and how it would be great if they kept sucking.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:01 PM
Yeah, so I saw :lol:

But I think Petchey is in Madrid commentating this week, and Fleming is the studio guest. :awww:

Yeah, but sometimes as they go to the match, Marcus will make a request to the commentary team. I was hoping that would happen today. No such luck.

Ladies and Gents,

I would like to request of you a favour. There is a young lady on Men's Tennis Forum who is a massive Mark Petchey fan. She worships the ground that he walks on, so I imagine it would be quite a thrill if Mark was to say a quick hello to her. I realise that you probably get many similar requests, but I would be eternally grateful if you could do me this one favour. If he says hello to Linda from Men's Tennis Forum, she will know to whom he is referring. Thank you. I'll make sure she is listening closely just in case.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:03 PM
It's different. You're taking what I said to extremes and allowing it to encompass every possible scenario. What if your opponent dies when they hit an UE? What if a plane crashes into your opponent, killing him as he hits his shot?

I obviously didn't mean that it's ok to cheer no matter what the circumstances are, and you know I didn't. You're taking what I said far too literally purely to be awkward. Ever said out loud in anger "I could kill that guy"? Presumably you don't then go and shoot the guy. Not everything has to be taken so literally.

You said A point is a point is a point. Obviously I've found some cases in which it may not be so by your own standards.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:06 PM
If you read back a few posts you'll find some other posts where other people have already addressed the issue, but since you're so eager to hear it from my mouth, I'll spell it out for you:

Consistently cheering your opponent's blatant UEs is very rude, because it feels like you're rubbing it in their faces how they suck and how it would be great if they kept sucking.

You see, that's your opinion, and not one I share. Besides, is the person who makes the error otherwise under the illusion that his opponent actually wants him to play well? Of course he wants him to suck. I doubt his opponent cheering an error enlightens him to that fact.

Why isn't it rude to cheer winners, since you're rubbing it in your opponent's face that you're better than them? You fail at applying logic.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:10 PM
You see, that's your opinion, and not one I share. Besides, is the person who makes the error otherwise under the illusion that his opponent actually wants him to play well? Of course he wants him to suck. I doubt his opponent cheering an error enlightens him to that fact.

Why isn't it rude to cheer winners, since you're rubbing it in your opponent's face that you're better than them? You fail at applying logic.

It isn't an opinion that hitting a winner is more difficult than hitting a "regular" groundstroke.

yellowboy906
05-12-2009, 10:11 PM
You see, that's your opinion, and not one I share. Besides, is the person who makes the error otherwise under the illusion that his opponent actually wants him to play well? Of course he wants him to suck. I doubt his opponent cheering an error enlightens him to that fact.

Why isn't it rude to cheer winners, since you're rubbing it in your opponent's face that you're better than them? You fail at applying logic.

haha, great logic.:cool:

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:11 PM
You said A point is a point is a point. Obviously I've found some cases in which it may not be so by your own standards.

And I told you that you're taking what I said far too literally. I obviously didn't mean that you should be celebrating an opponent's injury, as that concerns someone's health. It's not the same as cheering a shanked forehand, since no one is actually hurt. I could take any number of things you say throughout the day and take them to extremes.

philosophicalarf
05-12-2009, 10:12 PM
Is it? Did't he lose a TB to Nadal just a few weeks ago? Just 2 matches ago.


That's why I said borderline :-) Nadal on the slowest court around, and he played out-of-this-world tennis that tiebreak too.

Murray has won 74% tiebreaks since Wimbledon, best in tennis. Even on clay it's 4/5.



Andy seemed very pleased with his game tonight (in the Sky interview) I thought he was okay.

I think he should be tbh - this could very easily have been another banana skin if he played just slightly worse.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:13 PM
You see, that's your opinion, and not one I share.

I figured that much.

Besides, is the person who makes the error otherwise under the illusion that his opponent actually wants him to play well? Of course he wants him to suck. I doubt his opponent cheering an error enlightens him to that fact.

What?

Why isn't it rude to cheer winners, since you're rubbing it in your opponent's face that you're better than them? You fail at applying logic.

Because cheering your merits isn't the same as cheering your opponent's mistakes. If you can't see the logic in this, good night to you.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:14 PM
It isn't an opinion that hitting a winner is more difficult than hitting a "regular" groundstroke.

Who said that it is? Besides, if retrieving and forcing your opponent to play one more shot was an easy tactic to be successful with, everyone would do it. It takes a lot of effort, and I certainly don't blame players for cheering after such a point.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Nadal on the slowest court around...

Rome slowest court around. Good one.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:16 PM
Because cheering your merits isn't the same as cheering your opponent's mistakes. If you can't see the logic in this, good night to you.

That is just something you have asserted. You haven't adequately explained why that is the case. You simply said that it's because you are rubbing it in your opponent's face that they suck. The same rings true for winners, since you are rubbing it in your opponent's face that you are better than them.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:17 PM
Rome slowest court around. Good one.

It was Monte-Carlo, smart ass.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 10:21 PM
How would you know? You claim never to watch Nadal play.


The Rafa fadom is constantly bemoaning his lack of vamos/fistpump this season. :awww:

Not anymore. Unless there's a chance he'll lose.

philosophicalarf
05-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Rome slowest court around. Good one.

Huh?


Edit: ahh, ok, totally misunderstood.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Who said that it is? Besides, if retrieving and forcing your opponent to play one more shot was an easy tactic to be successful with, everyone would do it. It takes a lot of effort, and I certainly don't blame players for cheering after such a point.

Yes it takes a lot of physical effort and fitness. Skill? Not so much.

You are blind if you don't already see that most players rely more on just putting the ball back and being consistent than from going for their shots. Some are more patient, fit and faster than others.

rocketassist
05-12-2009, 10:23 PM
Murray played well. Bolelli also played well.

Whoever wrote the stats as 50 UEs needs a fucking slap and a brain scan.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:25 PM
It was Monte-Carlo, smart ass.

My bad. Brainfart there.

Thanks for the name calling btw.

LinkMage
05-12-2009, 10:25 PM
I don't know what's more pathetic, Bolleli missing those crucial points with easy forehands to the net or Murray shouting "Come on!" after every one of them.


NID coming from the Scottish twat.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:26 PM
Yes it takes a lot of physical effort and fitness. Skill? Not so much.

You are blind if you don't already see that most players rely more on just putting the ball back and being consistent than from going for their shots. Some are more patient, fit and faster than others.

Of course it requires skill. What a ridiculous thing to say. Are you one of those guys who think that they just put the ball in play and don't do anything with it?

There's a reason guys like Murray and Nadal are so successful. If you think what they do doesn't require much skill, you're really not very bright.

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:28 PM
My bad. Brainfart there.

Thanks for the name calling btw.

I tend to do that when someone makes a smartass comment. If you're going to mock what someone says, make sure you get the facts right.

CescAndyKimi
05-12-2009, 10:28 PM
Of course it requires skill. What a ridiculous thing to say. Are you one of those guys who think that they just put the ball in play and don't do anything with it?

There's a reason guys like Murray and Nadal are so successful. If you think what they do doesn't require much skill, you're really not very bright.

I was lurking around this argument. And to be honest, you've smashed it there mate.
/Conversation. :p

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:28 PM
That is just something you have asserted. You haven't adequately explained why that is the case. You simply said that it's because you are rubbing it in your opponent's face that they suck. The same rings true for winners, since you are rubbing it in your opponent's face that you are better than them.

Are the highlighted sentences the same? No, as I've already said. I'm starting to think you're blind.

I'll give you something though. You are relentless. My goodness...

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:29 PM
I tend to do that when someone makes a smartass comment. If you're going to mock what someone says, make sure you get the facts right.

What should I pick, the whip or the belt?

LinkMage
05-12-2009, 10:30 PM
They were big points. Lots of players do that, including Nadal. Should a player only celebrate a big point after he hits a clean winner? Here was me thinking that an error is worth just as much as a winner. A point is a point is a point.


Nadull was also a twat during 2004-2006 jumping like a schizophrenic monkey and doing ridiculous fistpumps when an opponent made an UE.

Sapeod
05-12-2009, 10:30 PM
I knew this was going to happen. Murray wins and the forum starts bitching about how pushy he played, how he cheered on every error :rolleyes: Typical GM.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:30 PM
Of course it requires skill. What a ridiculous thing to say. Are you one of those guys who think that they just put the ball in play and don't do anything with it?

There's a reason guys like Murray and Nadal are so successful. If you think what they do doesn't require much skill, you're really not very bright.

I'm not saying that it doesn't take any skill, just saying that it takes more skill to hit winners and if you don't realize that then you're being either stubborn or stupid. Just like serving an ace requires more skill than serving into the middle of the box. You think that it's not more difficult to place a ball with accuracy and speed (or a great dropshot) so that it's unreachable for your opponent than hitting the ball back in the middle of the court?

Sunset of Age
05-12-2009, 10:31 PM
The Rafa fadom is constantly bemoaning his lack of vamos/fistpump this season. :awww:

How funny. I guess that's why I am no genuine Rafa fan in the eyes of most - I actually appreciate it a lot that he seems to have dumped that irritating habit by now. :angel: :p

Raf :hug: Muzza :(

CescAndyKimi
05-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Of course it requires skill. What a ridiculous thing to say. Are you one of those guys who think that they just put the ball in play and don't do anything with it?

There's a reason guys like Murray and Nadal are so successful. If you think what they do doesn't require much skill, you're really not very bright.

Are the highlighted sentences the same? No, as I've already said. I'm starting to think you're blind.

I'll give you something though. You are relentless. My goodness...

Ok, so you are moaning about the fact that winners take more skill than UE's, but in a competitive atmosphere, one thing you must ask yourself is, who the heck gives a f*ck? Even when the ball goes off the lettchord and the player apologises, it's not out of regret or sorrow, it's just etiquette.

Accept the fact that, cheering when you make a winner and cheering when your opponent makes a mistake is basically the same thing. YOU CHEER FOR THE POINT. NOTHING ELSE.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:33 PM
How funny. I guess that's why I am no genuine Rafa fan in the eyes of most - I actually appreciate it a lot that he seems to have dumped that irritating habit by now. :angel: :p

Count me in.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:33 PM
Ok, so you are moaning about the fact that winners take more skill than UE's, but in a competitive atmosphere, one thing you must ask yourself is, who the heck gives a f*ck? Even when the ball goes off the lettchord and the player apologises, it's not out of regret or sorrow, it's just etiquette.

Accept the fact that, cheering when you make a winner and cheering when your opponent makes a mistake is basically the same thing. YOU CHEER FOR THE POINT. NOTHING ELSE.

Yes and you cheer for the point when the other player slips and falls as well :wavey:

jonathancrane
05-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Truly disgusting this Murray

Clydey
05-12-2009, 10:35 PM
I'm not saying that it doesn't take any skill, just saying that it takes more skill to hit winners and if you don't realize that then you're being either stubborn or stupid. Just like serving an ace requires more skill than serving into the middle of the box. You think that it's not more difficult to place a ball with accuracy and speed (or a great dropshot) so that it's unreachable for your opponent than hitting the ball back in the middle of the court?

I think it depends on the player. For a guy like Tursunov, doing what Murray does requires more skill. For a guy like Murray, doing what Tursunov does requires more skill. Different players do certain things better.

And they don't just hit the ball back into the middle of the court. That's my point. You don't seem to be aware of how it actually works. They could not possibly get away with doing what they do if they pushed the ball into the middle of the court. The skill is actually doing something with the ball while under a ton of pressure.

Har-Tru
05-12-2009, 10:35 PM
Ok, so you are moaning about the fact that winners take more skill than UE's, but in a competitive atmosphere, one thing you must ask yourself is, who the heck gives a f*ck? Even when the ball goes off the lettchord and the player apologises, it's not out of regret or sorrow, it's just etiquette.

Accept the fact that, cheering when you make a winner and cheering when your opponent makes a mistake is basically the same thing. YOU CHEER FOR THE POINT. NOTHING ELSE.

Basically? Internally? Of course it's the same thing. You don't really apologise because you feel it. You just want to win the point no matter how. It is etiquette. Which is something that shouldn't be lost, in my opinion.

CescAndyKimi
05-12-2009, 10:35 PM
Yes and you cheer for the point when the other player slips and falls as well :wavey:

Yeah, I'm sure it's adequate to cheer when someone slips and falls. you seem set in pushing this ludicrous logic :o.
Cheering for a point when your opponent bottles or shanks it is ENTIRELY different from cheering when he slips or falls. One is entirely devious and malicious, while the other is just plain simple competition that occurs in all sports.
Stop being simple.

Sapeod
05-12-2009, 10:36 PM
Yes and you cheer for the point when the other player slips and falls as well :wavey:
WTF are you on about. I doubt any player would cheer if their opponent fell over.
He is right. Cheering for a winner and an unforced error is basically the same thing.

Lopez
05-12-2009, 10:36 PM
Count me in.

Yeah Rafa is much better in that regard nowadays. Etiquette is a part of tennis.

Now it's time to go sleep. Clydey, I'll answer your messages later if I think that I have something to contribute. But don't think that I have anything personal against you, just sharing my own thoughts on the matter :).

sirwilliam
05-12-2009, 10:36 PM
Ouch. Murray didn't beat Bolelli, Bolelli beat himself. Worryingly long points and games and just sloppy play from Murray. I don't think he's ready for prime time on clay yet. Doesn't look like he has ANY chance of RG final this year. Although of course a semifinal loss would be a good result for him at this point anyway...

CescAndyKimi
05-12-2009, 10:37 PM
Basically? Internally? Of course it's the same thing. You don't really apologise because you feel it. You just want to win the point no matter how. It is etiquette. Which is something that shouldn't be lost, in my opinion.

Yes and what etiquette says, 'Don't cheer when you win a point because your opponent was weak and bottled'?
When the ball goes off the lettchord, it's badluck. When your opponent shanks a forehand, it's pure inability at that point in time. So you feel no guilt cheering for the point. It's that simple.

jonathancrane
05-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Nadull was also a twat during 2004-2006 jumping like a schizophrenic monkey and doing ridiculous fistpumps when an opponent made an UE.

and 2007, 2008...

Ok, so you are moaning about the fact that winners take more skill than UE's, but in a competitive atmosphere, one thing you must ask yourself is, who the heck gives a f*ck? Even when the ball goes off the lettchord and the player apologises, it's not out of regret or sorrow, it's just etiquette.

Accept the fact that, cheering when you make a winner and cheering when your opponent makes a mistake is basically the same thing. YOU CHEER FOR THE POINT. NOTHING ELSE.

:haha:

CescAndyKimi
05-12-2009, 10:38 PM
and 2007, 2008...



:haha:

Something funny? :o

l_mac
05-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Nadull was also a twat during 2004-2006 jumping like a schizophrenic monkey and doing ridiculous fistpumps when an opponent made an UE.
But he doesn't do it now.
How funny. I guess that's why I am no genuine Rafa fan in the eyes of most - I actually appreciate it a lot that he seems to have dumped that irritating habit by now. :angel: :p


;)

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 10:43 PM
and 2007, 2008...

Exactly.

LinkMage
05-12-2009, 10:56 PM
and 2007, 2008...

But he doesn't do it now.

Exactly.


He's much better now. He still does it from time to time but it's nothing like in the past. I felt like smashing him in the head when he did those over the top celebrations around 04-06.

I have a similar feeling towards the Scottish c*** these days.

Raquel
05-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Well done Andy ;)

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Once a classless clown, always a classless clown.

It shows when the going gets tough.

rocketassist
05-12-2009, 11:03 PM
He's much better now. He still does it from time to time but it's nothing like in the past. I felt like smashing him in the head when he did those over the top celebrations around 04-06.

I have a similar feeling towards the Scottish c*** these days.

What about when Fed is on the ropes and he acts like a whiny little bitch? :lol:

Against Nadal at the AO he was such a baby.

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:03 PM
Once a classless clown, always a classless clown.

It shows when the going gets tough.

:lol:

You're hilarious today.

Sapeod
05-12-2009, 11:04 PM
Once a classless clown, always a classless clown.

It shows when the going gets tough.
:rolleyes: Classless clown? No. I don't think so.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:09 PM
:lol:

You're hilarious today.

I'm always hilarious.

Not necessarily for you. :)

:rolleyes: Classless clown? No. I don't think so.

Are you a Nadulltard now, kid?

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:12 PM
I'm always hilarious.

Not necessarily for you. :)

No, for me always.

Steelq
05-12-2009, 11:15 PM
Well it's a little bit irritating,but it's understandable,cause he doesn't make so many winners durring a match,so he has to find a way to cheer himself up,and best opportunity for that is after an error of his opponent.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:15 PM
They say only a fool laughs at everything.

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:17 PM
They say only a fool laughs at everything.

Do they?

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:23 PM
Do they?

They do.

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:25 PM
They do.

I see.

Was that relevant?

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:32 PM
I see.

Was that relevant?

It was a backhanded "you're being foolish" comment. :)

Guy Haines
05-12-2009, 11:32 PM
Bolelli sure is cute.

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:33 PM
Bolelli sure is cute.

Very ken doll.

cobalt60
05-12-2009, 11:33 PM
Bolelli sure is cute.

I agree. Too bad he is too young for me. Oh wait; too bad I am married cuz honestly one is never too young;)

l_mac
05-12-2009, 11:33 PM
It was a backhanded "you're being foolish" comment. :)

I did wonder about that. But for it to work in that way, I would have had to state that I found everything hilarious, instead of just you. :)

NikolaBGD
05-12-2009, 11:35 PM
It's pitty that thread about Muzza is off :(

I forgot ugly bandage over his ankle, it looks like aid from mongolian red cross :)

Guy Haines
05-12-2009, 11:38 PM
I agree. Too bad he is too young for me. Oh wait; too bad I am married cuz honestly one is never too young;)

You're never too old to look. :D I've got a couple more decades before looking at Bolelli would seem very Death in Venice.

You're right Linda, he is kind of a Ken doll. If he was, I'd dress him in tighter shorts.

He played well against Chela. I like his game but he makes too many errors.

GlennMirnyi
05-12-2009, 11:52 PM
I did wonder about that. But for it to work in that way, I would have had to state that I found everything hilarious, instead of just you. :)

If you laugh at everything I say, then you laugh at everything and, by conclusion, you're foolish. :D

leng jai
05-12-2009, 11:58 PM
Did Murray give you a pay rise Clydey?

tangerine_dream
05-13-2009, 12:03 AM
Truly disgusting this Murray
Finally, something intelligent from you.

McAlistar
05-13-2009, 12:05 AM
Nadal beat Verdasco in Rome hitting only 6 winners and people complain about Murray who hits over 20?..

Anyway i thought Andy did well, Bolleli has a great forehand and really played a great match. If you actually watched the match, which i doubt half of the WUMS here do you would appreciate that he hit nothing like 50 UE's.

Im positive Andy can get well into the tournament now.

leng jai
05-13-2009, 12:08 AM
Nadal beat Verdasco in Rome hitting only 6 winners and people complain about Murray who hits over 20?..

Anyway i thought Andy did well, Bolleli has a great forehand and really played a great match. If you actually watched the match, which i doubt half of the WUMS here do you would appreciate that he hit nothing like 50 UE's.

Im positive Andy can get well into the tournament now.

If by great forehand you mean crappy forehand then I completely agree.

batavlada
05-13-2009, 12:13 AM
This world #3 is very enthusiastic on clay. This is surreal.

McAlistar
05-13-2009, 12:14 AM
:confused:

He hit a shitload of winners off that wing, he does go for to much sometimes but the shot in general is very good.

fast_clay
05-13-2009, 12:15 AM
there is nothing wrong with cheering winners or errors... and i have been berated for doing both in the past... but, f*** it... i dont care... if you give a f*** about winning a match then why not try to get a leg up on your opponent if you have the energy enough to apply that extra bit to the mental game... you can also come unstuck going over the top as well, you only need one cool cat down the other end who couldn't give a toss what you did and happily went about let it motivate him in the right why... then again, since the age of 14 i have listened to grown men tell me what they did to my mother the night before after finished at the pub - a 4 hour spit roast - and cricket was meant to be a gentleman's game, no wonder australia are the mentally toughest f***ers in that sport...

some tennis attitude is still heavily dated... my attitude lay in that catergory too at times... no one can say you are not allowed to dislike over-the-top fist-pumping and shouting... there is no colour in that...

but, to do it is far from wrong...

personally, i think The Tradesman needs to put a megaphone on his tool belt and give the ticket holders a few more war crys at high volume... its what the crowds f**ken well paid for...

amonb
05-13-2009, 12:15 AM
state of tennis as a game reached the lowest point in it's history.players like murray are 3rd!Yeah... this Murray (future multiple grand slam winner!!!) is an awful tennis player!!! :haha:

fast_clay
05-13-2009, 12:16 AM
"Murray not focused on rankings." (http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ap-murray-no3&prov=ap&type=lgns) What a relief!

its the sort of headline he has to come up with himself to tell the brit media to calm the f*** down...

habibko
05-13-2009, 12:34 AM
wow @ thread getting +140 posts, Clydey :worship: ;)

I don't think there is a player who pisses me so much lately as Murray on clay. I know he has the tools, ability, shots and strategy to play solid on clay and he still choses to play like this. Unbelievable.:mad:

exactly my feelings, and not only on clay, he is capable of playing unbelievable and highly entertaining aggressive game against any opponent, he just lacks the mental attitude to execute it all the time (he does it on patches in each match) but for some reason he brings it on every single time against Federer for the whole match, he and his coach should know better that this is the way for him and not passive defensive play.

pkubik
05-13-2009, 12:50 AM
Superb match by SuperBol generally, but he sucked at key points. He was the better player, dictating the tempo... whatever, he could win in straight if he had more mental strenght

w78dexon_y
05-13-2009, 12:52 AM
Nah! Boleli gave it away! He made what? 7 UE just in TB itself??!! That's how Murr won first set! I expect of him to lose very next one he playes. It's easy to see that Murray's start speed fails on clay. He is not as mobile. Anyone who can spray the shots from one side to anoterhr will beat Murr comfortably. Proof: Monaco's win at the Rome.

dusk
05-13-2009, 01:23 AM
there is nothing wrong with cheering winners or errors... and i have been berated for doing both in the past... but, f*** it... i dont care... if you give a f*** about winning a match then why not try to get a leg up on your opponent if you have the energy enough to apply that extra bit to the mental game... you can also come unstuck going over the top as well, you only need one cool cat down the other end who couldn't give a toss what you did and happily went about let it motivate him in the right why... then again, since the age of 14 i have listened to grown men tell me what they did to my mother the night before after finished at the pub - a 4 hour spit roast - and cricket was meant to be a gentleman's game, no wonder australia are the mentally toughest f***ers in that sport...

some tennis attitude is still heavily dated... my attitude lay in that catergory too at times... no one can say you are not allowed to dislike over-the-top fist-pumping and shouting... there is no colour in that...

but, to do it is far from wrong...

personally, i think The Tradesman needs to put a megaphone on his tool belt and give the ticket holders a few more war crys at high volume... its what the crowds f**ken well paid for...

I couldn't agree more.
There is nothing wrong with showing some passion on the court and pumping yourself up. In fact, I love to see it. It bores me to death watching robots on the court, who celebrate the point by looking at the ground.
In my opinion, it's much worse to look upset when you made a clearly forced error. It seems like underestimating the opponent.
If you cheer on the opponent's error, it may mean that you played well and forced the error out of him/her.

Voo de Mar
05-13-2009, 01:49 AM
Superb match by SuperBol generally, but he sucked at key points. He was the better player, dictating the tempo... whatever, he could win in straight if he had more mental strenght

If he had more would be in the place where Murray is right now. I don't buy it with straight sets. Last year in Paris Bolelli won first set against Blake 12-10 but lost another two. Murray for sure isn't a player who would have mental collapse after losting tense tie-break against player like Bolelli. I think only against Nadal on caly, Murray wouldn't have any chance to win after losing first set 9-11.

Henry Chinaski
05-13-2009, 01:57 AM
Nadal beat Verdasco in Rome hitting only 6 winners and people complain about Murray who hits over 20?..



haha. yeah because no one ever mentions Nadal's lack of winners ever. Ever, ever.

Good stuff.

green25814
05-13-2009, 02:59 AM
Murray needs to be banned from using claycourts. Unbelievably muggish. Absolutely useless. Disgusting.

roberthenman
05-13-2009, 03:49 AM
well done new number 3 :yeah:

finishingmove
05-13-2009, 06:15 AM
expected straight sets win for the world #3

GlennMirnyi
05-13-2009, 06:54 AM
Nadal beat Verdasco in Rome hitting only 6 winners and people complain about Murray who hits over 20?..

Anyway i thought Andy did well, Bolleli has a great forehand and really played a great match. If you actually watched the match, which i doubt half of the WUMS here do you would appreciate that he hit nothing like 50 UE's.

Im positive Andy can get well into the tournament now.

Are you dumb?

Check the final statistics of the match.

50 UEs for Bolelli.

Thanks.

Clydey
05-13-2009, 07:14 AM
Are you dumb?

Check the final statistics of the match.

50 UEs for Bolelli.

Thanks.

Bolelli did not hit 50 UEs. The person who compiled that stat clearly combined both forced and unforced errors.

Murray won 83 points in the match and hit 22 winners. That means there must have only been 11 forced errors if Bolelli hit 50 UEs. It is obviously wrong. They basically counted everything that didn't end in a winner as an UE.

finishingmove
05-13-2009, 07:16 AM
i believe you, clydey.

Clydey
05-13-2009, 07:27 AM
i believe you, clydey.

I can always count on your support.

Except in the ACC. That was the wrong kind of support. :lol:

Certinfy
05-13-2009, 09:40 AM
I also agree with u Clydey, never thought of the stats in that way. :)

Titi
05-13-2009, 10:44 AM
Bolelli is just a mug, should have took that tie-break.

Still good win for Murray, though he really should be less vocal when he wins a point by his opponent screwing up.

McAlistar
05-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Are you dumb?

Check the final statistics of the match.

50 UEs for Bolelli.

Thanks.

You obviously didnt watch the match, there is no way Bolleli hit that many UE's, anyway your a poster with a closed mind so i wont bother.:o

Corey Feldman
05-13-2009, 11:04 AM
go for the 4 tittel of the season, Andy

fast_clay
05-13-2009, 01:12 PM
some analysts count every single stroke bogdanovic makes as an error, even a winner, because they believe they he shouldnt be a tennis player...

just saying...

angry1
05-13-2009, 06:59 PM
wow @ thread getting +140 posts, Clydey :worship: ;)



exactly my feelings, and not only on clay, he is capable of playing unbelievable and highly entertaining aggressive game against any opponent, he just lacks the mental attitude to execute it all the time (he does it on patches in each match) but for some reason he brings it on every single time against Federer for the whole match, he and his coach should know better that this is the way for him and not passive defensive play.


I'm sure his coach does realise Murray should play more expansively.However Murray appears to prefer winning points by opponent's error to hitting winners.That tendency seems to be getting worse to me, as well.

I'm not sure he can play his current style any better than he does,so further improvement needs a big change in attitude.He's done it with his fitness and for the most part mental strength but this could be the hardest thing for him to change IMO.

When you watch the highlights against Nadal in Australia it seems incredible that he very rarely looks as impressive or entertaining now as the number 3 as he did then.The changes of pace and spin are interesting to me,but I think he needs to up the amount of attacking shots to get better.On clay it's even more important due to his worse movement.

Serenidad
05-13-2009, 07:01 PM
Bolelli how is he ranked so high. Every match I have seen of his this year has looked challenger level.

Murray get it together. This is not a good result even though you won.