30+yrs club:: LAVER the GOATiest [Fed & Rafa<> longevity?] [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

30+yrs club:: LAVER the GOATiest [Fed & Rafa<> longevity?]

CmonAussie
04-20-2009, 10:52 AM
Another gauge of LAVER`s greatness [GOATness] was his performance beyond the age of 30yrs!!!
:cool::cool::worship::worship::angel:

Over 30 Singles Titles - Open Era
Player Titles
#BOLDED players also won slams/majors beyond 30yrs.

Rod Laver 53 [includes All-4 `The Slam` in 69].
Ken Rosewall 30
Arthur Ashe 20
Andre Agassi 15
Jimmy Connors 14
Ivan Lendl 8
Andres Gimeno 6
Ilie Nastase 6
Stan Smith 6
Bob Hewitt 5
Roger Taylor 5
Marty Riessen 5
Mark Cox 5
Tom Okker 5
Bob Lutz 5
John McEnroe 5
Magnus Gustafsson 5
Roy Emerson 4
John Newcombe 4
Jose Higueras 4
Andres Gomez 4
Younes El Aynaoui 4
...
...
Pete Sampras 1 [only win beyond 30 was @ USO 02]

>>>
Will the likes of FED or RAFA be able to join this illustrius group:confused:


>>>
More interesting stats on those players who were able to win slams over 30yrs..
From these we can see Rosewall`s greatness~ as he holds 4/5 age records for oldest to win a slam!
Though Laver appears the most times [5] in the Top-20, and Agassi also appears [5] times~ if we go to the Top-30.

Oldest Winners 1968-2007
Rank Player Year Tournament Age

1 Ken Rosewall 1972 Australian 37y 2m 1d
2 Ken Rosewall 1971 Australian 36y 2m 12d
3 Ken Rosewall 1970 US Open 35y 10m 11d
4 Andres Gimeno 1972 Roland Garros 34y 10m 1d
5 Ken Rosewall 1968 Roland Garros 33y 7m 7d
6 Andre Agassi 2003 Australian 32y 8m 28d
7 Arthur Ashe 1975 Wimbledon 31y 11m 25d
8 Rod Laver 1969 US Open 31y 1m 0d
9 Pete Sampras 2002 US Open 31y 0m 27d
10 Jimmy Connors 1983 US Open 31y 0m 9d
11 Rod Laver 1969 Wimbledon 30y 10m 26d
12 Rod Laver 1969 Roland Garros 30y 9m 30d
13 Andre Agassi 2001 Australian 30y 8m 30d
14 John Newcombe 1975 Australian 30y 7m 9d
15 Rod Laver 1969 Australian 30y 5m 18d
16 Andres Gomez 1990 Roland Garros 30y 3m 14d
17 Jimmy Connors 1982 US Open 30y 0m 10d
18 Petr Korda 1998 Australian 30y 0m 9d
19 Rod Laver 1968 Wimbledon 29y 10m 27d
20 Ivan Lendl 1990 Australian 29y 10m 21d
21 Jimmy Connors 1982 Wimbledon 29y 10m 2d
22 Goran Ivanisevic 2001 Wimbledon 29y 9m 26d
23 Andre Agassi 2000 Australian 29y 9m 1d
24 Andre Agassi 1999 US Open 29y 4m 14d
25 John Newcombe 1973 US Open 29y 3m 17d
26 Andre Agassi 1999 Roland Garros 29y 1m 8d
27 Pete Sampras 2000 Wimbledon 28y 10m 27d
28 Ivan Lendl 1989 Australian 28y 10m 22d
29 John Newcombe 1973 Australian 28y 7m 9d
30 Boris Becker 1996 Australian 28y 2m 6d


*Stats provided by www.tennis28.com

kingfederer
04-20-2009, 10:57 AM
tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!

finishingmove
04-20-2009, 10:59 AM
hard to say yes

CmonAussie
04-20-2009, 11:05 AM
tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!

OK~ you`re entitled to your opinion;)
However i think you`re underestimating how much of a tennis genius LAVER was:angel:
Laver also had the biggest `left arm forearm` ever seen on a tennis court [yes- bigger than Rafa`s], and that was in the era before they knew about special protein diets or the best workout techniques! ...If Laver had the opportunity to train as Rafa has & use the same equipment i think you`d find that Rod would be landing more than his fair share of thundering forehands:devil:

BTW, thanks a lot of the www.tennis28.com link, that was great:D

Kolya
04-20-2009, 11:57 AM
Magnus Gustafsson :worship:

CyBorg
04-20-2009, 04:33 PM
tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!

You have no idea what you're talking about. Professional tennis was no more recreational in the 1950s than professional baseball.

Johnny Groove
04-20-2009, 04:44 PM
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.

luie
04-20-2009, 11:15 PM
I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.

CmonAussie
04-21-2009, 01:01 AM
I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.

:wavey:
I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed:angel:
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty:sad:

fast_clay
04-21-2009, 01:36 AM
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.

i tend to agree, due to the fact that agassi's miles on the clock were done largely on hardcourt... also aided in part by a couple of well spaced lull's in his career - though, again, the return from these lulls in the fashion he did is also something uncommon... connors gets a mention as the clay n grass on the western side of the pond dried up in the 80's aswell, yet managed to stick around... no one f***s with kenny though... warhorse...

I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.
:wavey:
I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed:angel:
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty:sad:

yep... federer's new problems are a complete breed apart from the likes of hewitt, safin, roddick and the rivals he dismissed early on... maybe its just the inital shock of seemingly ageing overnight, but, if he is half the man i began to be believe he was, then he'll have no trouble in readjusting his expectations and staying motivated for these years ahead... any success up ahead could only add to his legacy and when you look at the figures above, its not like he needs a whole bunch of titles to have the 'longevity' tag labelled upon him... there is every chance of a post 30's haul of titles if he gets his head right for sure...

luie
04-21-2009, 02:26 AM
:wavey:
I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed:angel:
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty:sad:
Agassi in this respect is very impressive making Grand slam finals & winning slams through many generations.However for me it was becker winning the AO 96 because I was a huge becker fan & was disappointed when sampras beat him in wimby 95 when he valiantly came back against agassi in the SF :worship:. by then becker was a greybeard.
As for federer I don't think he has to swallow his pride, because nothing is wrong with his game or mentality on the whole ,needs some work but not fragile as some claim. The problem is that the present generation studied his game for years & trained to exploit every weakness he has & slowly began eroding his confidence in his game & if his game cannot be exploited they exploited his patience & habits like nadal at MC 08 when fed was on a roll nadal takes a well timed time-out to break his rhythym ,nadal took a time-out to rub his leg for 10 seconds the result fed collasped. there are many examples of nadal doing this,fakervic as well,murray by default sometimes but the end result is fed loses or extended.The problem however is not nadal's,murray's or fakervic its federer because he lost his concentration & at this level you can't afford that lapse in concentration. They slow the game down to suit them. This is not to ridicule nadal or fakervic because they are doing what must be done to win but the point is they know exactly federer's likes & dislikes. In maimi one commentator was saying that during feds prime, when he played ,the ball was always in "your hands" because he rushed through his service games & before you knew it you were 5-2 down & not much time has elasped.
Fed needs to readjust his game to suit the new era of warfare,change his game a bit come with something new from time to time & have more patience . Fed needs to realise that the competition has not gotten better but is more equiped to beat him Roger federer.
Murray beats federer but loses to nalbandian,davydenko,verdasco.Feds old rivals.In short Murray beats fed but not his rivals. Fakervic can't even beat roddick
Nadal beat fed but loses to davydenko,nalbandian had him on the run before he choked,in maimi.
Match-up issues explain certain aspects but not all. In short nothing is wrong with federer (apart from the huge belly & loss of a half-a-step)but these can be worked on the problem imo is naturally after so long his game has been figured out & the cream of the crop can exploit it.
BUT sure fed can come back.

CmonAussie
04-21-2009, 02:59 AM
Agassi in this respect is very impressive making Grand slam finals & winning slams through many generations.However for me it was becker winning the AO 96 because I was a huge becker fan & was disappointed when sampras beat him in wimby 95 when he valiantly came back against agassi in the SF :worship:. by then becker was a greybeard.
As for federer I don't think he has to swallow his pride, because nothing is wrong with his game or mentality on the whole ,needs some work but not fragile as some claim. The problem is that the present generation studied his game for years & trained to exploit every weakness he has & slowly began eroding his confidence in his game & if his game cannot be exploited they exploited his patience & habits like nadal at MC 08 when fed was on a roll nadal takes a well timed time-out to break his rhythym ,nadal took a time-out to rub his leg for 10 seconds the result fed collasped. there are many examples of nadal doing this,fakervic as well,murray by default sometimes but the end result is fed loses or extended.The problem however is not nadal's,murray's or fakervic its federer because he lost his concentration & at this level you can't afford that lapse in concentration. They slow the game down to suit them. This is not to ridicule nadal or fakervic because they are doing what must be done to win but the point is they know exactly federer's likes & dislikes. In maimi one commentator was saying that during feds prime, when he played ,the ball was always in "your hands" because he rushed through his service games & before you knew it you were 5-2 down & not much time has elasped.
Fed needs to readjust his game to suit the new era of warfare,change his game a bit come with something new from time to time & have more patience . Fed needs to realise that the competition has not gotten better but is more equiped to beat him Roger federer.
Murray beats federer but loses to nalbandian,davydenko,verdasco.Feds old rivals.In short Murray beats fed but not his rivals. Fakervic can't even beat roddick
Nadal beat fed but loses to davydenko,nalbandian had him on the run before he choked,in maimi.
Match-up issues explain certain aspects but not all. In short nothing is wrong with federer (apart from the huge belly & loss of a half-a-step)but these can be worked on the problem imo is naturally after so long his game has been figured out & the cream of the crop can exploit it.
BUT sure fed can come back.

:wavey:
Great post:cool:
Even though i don`t totally agree with you i do think you`ve made some excellent observations/points~ esp regarding FED losing his rythm, as Rafa, Murray & Djoko realised that slowing down play is the way to get Roger out of his comfort zone:sad:

~*BGT*~
04-21-2009, 04:21 AM
He won 53 titles... AFTER turning 30? :eek:

heartbroken
04-21-2009, 05:27 AM
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.

Agassi's career was always fascinating to me. He joined Sampras at the top of the game in '95, dropped off the face of the earth some time later, then came back to finish strongly. Was it '97 that he was playing challengers to try to get his game back? He really hit his stride in later years...

CmonAussie
04-21-2009, 12:58 PM
Agassi's career was always fascinating to me. He joined Sampras at the top of the game in '95, dropped off the face of the earth some time later, then came back to finish strongly. Was it '97 that he was playing challengers to try to get his game back? He really hit his stride in later years...

:wavey:
Yeah Agassi is one of the most surprising sportsmen in history:cool:
***
The irony is that he began his career as a brash `image is everything`, lazy, choker, celebrity wannabe...yet once he realised how much he loved tennis (after the Brooke Shields breakup) he became one of the most disciplined & intriguing players ever, and outlived all his rivals (including Sampras);)
There will never be such a fascinating enigma/contradiction as Agassi!!

Still if Fed or Rafa can continue to win big titles in their 30s they`ll truly go down as unforgetable legends (a la Laver & Agassi):angel:
I really hope both of them can surprise us by playing high level tennis well beyond the theoretical used by date in tennis (30 being the magic number by which time most players are retired or a shadow of their former selves)..

Jimnik
04-21-2009, 01:03 PM
Federer has another slam or two left in him, even if he doesn't win one this year.

But Nadal is too Borg-like. He'll burn-out at 26.

fast_clay
04-21-2009, 01:21 PM
He won 53 titles... AFTER turning 30? :eek:

yes... it wasn't the 5 set loss that made Federer cry at the AO this year... RodGOAT simply looked at Roger sideways...

CmonAussie
04-21-2009, 01:36 PM
yes... it wasn't the 5 set loss that made Federer cry at the AO this year... RodGOAT simply looked at Roger sideways...

haha ha:devil:
...
Honestly, i don`t think Sampras or Federer are really in the same league as RodGOAT, because between them they couldn`t even manage one FO title.!! Of course FED still has time to prove me wrong;)

Laver`s critics will say `he`s only 5`8 he`d never be able to compete in the current era`! But is it Laver`s fault that he grew up during WWII when there wasn`t enough nutrition for the kids, so he never got to grow as tall as the current generation.!? **Also Laver was beating guys much taller & bigger tham himself even back in the day [like 6`3 Gonzalez, 6'1 Ashe & 6`1 Newcombe]..
>>
Here`s a clip of 31 yrs Laver defeating 24 yrs Newcombe in the 1969 Wimbledon final:: the footage tells the story, even with his small stature & using a wooden racket~ LAVER had all the shots in the book [some of his play actually reminds me of both Fed & Rafa...especially Rod`s speed & ability to crack winners in a seemingly defensive position]:cool::worship:
Watch & marvel:angel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePo6KcGQd4M

heartbroken
04-21-2009, 02:07 PM
:wavey:
Yeah Agassi is one of the most surprising sportsmen in history:cool:
***
The irony is that he began his career as a brash `image is everything`, lazy, choker, celebrity wannabe...yet once he realised how much he loved tennis (after the Brooke Shields breakup) he became one of the most disciplined & intriguing players ever, and outlived all his rivals (including Sampras);)
There will never be such a fascinating enigma/contradiction as Agassi!!

Still if Fed or Rafa can continue to win big titles in their 30s they`ll truly go down as unforgetable legends (a la Laver & Agassi):angel:
I really hope both of them can surprise us by playing high level tennis well beyond the theoretical used by date in tennis (30 being the magic number by which time most players are retired or a shadow of their former selves)..

Agree! Agassi had a very unique career.

I'll add that I think it's easier to have that longevity when you take a few more breaks along the way. Agassi's mind sometimes appeared to be elsewhere, and he was never really on a path to chase down a record the way Sampras did, and the way Fed is attempting to do. I would imagine that the mental toll would be considerably less in Agassi's case. When you dominate the way someone like Fed has, I think it's an extra tough transition into those older years. Guys like that aren't accustomed to being second or third best, and the pressure they can put on themselves to reach their goals... :wavey:

fast_clay
04-21-2009, 03:04 PM
haha ha:devil:
...
Honestly, i don`t think Sampras or Federer are really in the same league as RodGOAT, because between them they couldn`t even manage one FO title.!! Of course FED still has time to prove me wrong;)

Laver`s critics will say `he`s only 5`8 he`d never be able to compete in the current era`! But is it Laver`s fault that he grew up during WWII when there wasn`t enough nutrition for the kids, so he never got to grow as tall as the current generation.!? **Also Laver was beating guys much taller & bigger tham himself even back in the day [like 6`3 Gonzalez & 6`1 Newcombe]..
>>
Here`s a clip of 31 yrs Laver defeating 24 yrs Newcombe in the 1969 Wimbledon final:: the footage tells the story, even with his small stature & using a wooden racket~ LAVER had all the shots in the book [some of his play actually reminds me of both Fed & Rafa...especially Rod`s speed & ability to crack winners in a seemingly defensive position]:cool::worship:
Watch & marvel:angel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePo6KcGQd4M

good post... the people need to be educated... i copied newcombe's serve for a while... his and stich's i always liked to practice doing the most.... effortless tall man deliveries by positioning the toss way out into the court... its great to see... but laver's compact, coiled delivery is the business... and his entire body language for the point after the ball is struck on serve and return is all about intent, all about 'ok, now how and i gonna screw you on the offence...' ... even in defence managed to get his feet right and shape an answer that often ended in offence... in that respect, yeah he reminds of fed at the top and nadal these days... you'd be hard pressed to find a better players with wings on his feet skipping about the court... so light footed this RodGOAT... i always liked how rod held himself after the points... relaxed... he'd be fully intense for an entire point, looking like a warrior.. then, look like the drunken swordsman between point... real cool b@stard...

what is clear is that there is no position on the court that RodGOAT is not comfortable with... there are options everywhere...

newcombe was an accomplished grass courter and knew every inch of a grasscourt and would probably tell you as much too after a couple of brews... this vid shows his deft touch and knowledge of what's difficult to receive at both high and low speed... and i remember watching newcombe do a press club luncheon on the abc one afternoon... he gave a talk for 45 minutes... some pretty cool stories, then answered some questions from the aussie press... the issue of the rivalry with laver came up... and newcombe said: 'yeah well... you know i managed to put rod in a few awkward positions... managed to push him into a corner and try to make him feel the pressure... anyone else would have cracked... but... rod always without fail managed to find that little bit of magic and find his way out... and that was the difference in the end in the big matches...'

CmonAussie
04-21-2009, 04:29 PM
good post... the people need to be educated... i copied newcombe's serve for a while... his and stich's i always liked to practice doing the most.... effortless tall man deliveries by positioning the toss way out into the court... its great to see... but laver's compact, coiled delivery is the business... and his entire body language for the point after the ball is struck on serve and return is all about intent, all about 'ok, now how and i gonna screw you on the offence...' ... even in defence managed to get his feet right and shape an answer that often ended in offence... in that respect, yeah he reminds of fed at the top and nadal these days... you'd be hard pressed to find a better players with wings on his feet skipping about the court... so light footed this RodGOAT... i always liked how rod held himself after the points... relaxed... he'd be fully intense for an entire point, looking like a warrior.. then, look like the drunken swordsman between point... real cool b@stard...

what is clear is that there is no position on the court that RodGOAT is not comfortable with... there are options everywhere...

newcombe was an accomplished grass courter and knew every inch of a grasscourt and would probably tell you as much too after a couple of brews... this vid shows his deft touch and knowledge of what's difficult to receive at both high and low speed... and i remember watching newcombe do a press club luncheon on the abc one afternoon... he gave a talk for 45 minutes... some pretty cool stories, then answered some questions from the aussie press... the issue of the rivalry with laver came up... and newcombe said: 'yeah well... you know i managed to put rod in a few awkward positions... managed to push him into a corner and try to make him feel the pressure... anyone else would have cracked... but... rod always without fail managed to find that little bit of magic and find his way out... and that was the difference in the end in the big matches...'

:cool:
Thanks fast clay, you make sound points;)
Some more footage of Laver (wish there were more though)::
...
LAVER vs ASHE 1969 Wimbledon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdPX9avs1M&feature=related
LAVER vs CONNORS 1975 Las Vegas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM&feature=related
LAVER vs BORG 1976 Hilton Head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-VeBIal8TU&feature=related

CmonAussie
04-22-2009, 08:17 AM
Agree! Agassi had a very unique career.

I'll add that I think it's easier to have that longevity when you take a few more breaks along the way. Agassi's mind sometimes appeared to be elsewhere, and he was never really on a path to chase down a record the way Sampras did, and the way Fed is attempting to do. I would imagine that the mental toll would be considerably less in Agassi's case. When you dominate the way someone like Fed has, I think it's an extra tough transition into those older years. Guys like that aren't accustomed to being second or third best, and the pressure they can put on themselves to reach their goals... :wavey:

:cool:
Good points..
In that respect Nadal is more similar to Agassi (than Fed is to AA), because Rafa doesn`t expect to dominate & he`s not chasing records (even though he is breaking quite a few).. Both Agassi (in the 2nd half of his career) & Nadal - seem to simply enjoy the process of improving, and accept losing well, because they didn`t put pressure on themselves to win in the first place..

thrust
04-22-2009, 02:16 PM
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.

NO WAY!! Rosewall was nearly 34 when Open Tennis began. Still, he won 4 Slams, 32 tournaments and reached the Wimbldon and USO finals just short of his 40th birthday! Laver was about 30 when Open Tennis began, therefore, had a 4 year advantage over Ken.

Ouragan
04-22-2009, 04:40 PM
Santoro.

Well, seriously, he does have the record of most slams played.

heartbroken
04-23-2009, 02:53 AM
:cool:
Good points..
In that respect Nadal is more similar to Agassi (than Fed is to AA), because Rafa doesn`t expect to dominate & he`s not chasing records (even though he is breaking quite a few).. Both Agassi (in the 2nd half of his career) & Nadal - seem to simply enjoy the process of improving, and accept losing well, because they didn`t put pressure on themselves to win in the first place..

Yep, I see what you're saying. I'm sure all players feel demoralized at times. But if an athlete is trying to chase "history", and they start to feel like they might not quite meet their goals, I can see a far greater impact from the losses. I don't know if Sampras would have quite felt right about his career if he had stopped at 11 or 12 slams, which seems absurd given that level of accomplishment. Others would have been thrilled with that total, but Sampras wanted that slam record, and he got it. Is the (self-applied) pressure of getting that same slam record getting to Federer? Like Sampras, it is a record he wants very badly...

If Nadal continues to rack up big wins at a young age, do you think he will start thinking about history as well?

CmonAussie
04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Yep, I see what you're saying. I'm sure all players feel demoralized at times. But if an athlete is trying to chase "history", and they start to feel like they might not quite meet their goals, I can see a far greater impact from the losses. I don't know if Sampras would have quite felt right about his career if he had stopped at 11 or 12 slams, which seems absurd given that level of accomplishment. Others would have been thrilled with that total, but Sampras wanted that slam record, and he got it. Is the (self-applied) pressure of getting that same slam record getting to Federer? Like Sampras, it is a record he wants very badly...

If Nadal continues to rack up big wins at a young age, do you think he will start thinking about history as well?


Nice post:)
...
I don`t think RAFA will ever feel the same kind of pressure that FED`s experienced, although if Nadal does get to 13 slams then he may start to feel the pinch. Also a lot of fans expect RAFA to dominate FO for several years, so there is some pressure there><..

However FED & RAFA have very different personalities::
*Nadal seems to relish a 5 set battle:devil:
*Federer always looks uncomfortable in 5 setters:sad:
~Even when Roger was dominating he often lost 5 set matches you`d expect him to win [eg. vs Nalbandian (03 AO, 03 USO, 05 TMC), Hewitt (03 DC), Safin (05 AO)]..

Nadal doesn`t mind being pushed physically, whereas Federer seems p-off that any player could have the audacity to stretch him to 5 sets>> so I think they feel pressure very differently;)

fast_clay
04-24-2009, 03:23 PM
Santoro.

Well, seriously, he does have the record of most slams played.

KennethGOAT would smash Santoro if you include Pro Slams... but its not Santoro's fault that KennethGOAT was touched by God...

heartbroken
04-25-2009, 05:51 AM
Nice post:)
...
I don`t think RAFA will ever feel the same kind of pressure that FED`s experienced, although if Nadal does get to 13 slams then he may start to feel the pinch. Also a lot of fans expect RAFA to dominate FO for several years, so there is some pressure there><..

However FED & RAFA have very different personalities::
*Nadal seems to relish a 5 set battle:devil:
*Federer always looks uncomfortable in 5 setters:sad:
~Even when Roger was dominating he often lost 5 set matches you`d expect him to win [eg. vs Nalbandian (03 AO, 03 USO, 05 TMC), Hewitt (03 DC), Safin (05 AO)]..

Nadal doesn`t mind being pushed physically, whereas Federer seems p-off that any player could have the audacity to stretch him to 5 sets>> so I think they feel pressure very differently;)

So far Nadal is handling the pressure well, and as you said, he has a lot of fight in him when the going gets tough!

thrust
04-25-2009, 10:52 AM
So far Nadal is handling the pressure well, and as you said, he has a lot of fight in him when the going gets tough!

If he stays healthy, I think Rafa will win more Slams than Federer or Sampras. He is incredibly strong, both physically and mentally, fast and determined. If he would get more comfortable at net, he would be unbeatable of nearly so.

CmonAussie
04-25-2009, 02:58 PM
...
<><><>
A few vids worth a look.!!
***
1982 Wimbledon Final:
30 yrs Connors defeats much younger rival McEnroe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KStKzI04II

1975 Australian Open Final:
31 yrs Newcombe defeats much younger rival Connors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7OyXUa175M

~plus Agassi`s renaissance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4xNI9_2X_s&feature=related

heartbroken
04-25-2009, 03:31 PM
If he stays healthy, I think Rafa will win more Slams than Federer or Sampras. He is incredibly strong, both physically and mentally, fast and determined. If he would get more comfortable at net, he would be unbeatable of nearly so.

He has a shot, but 14 is still a long way off. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the year unfolds. If he follows up last year with another win at FO and Wimbledon, then I think his chances look pretty strong to have a go at the record. As you said, like any player, it is essential that he avoid major injuries in his prime years...

CmonAussie
04-25-2009, 04:37 PM
...
According to Wikipedia these are titles Rod Laver won beyond his 30th birthday [post August 9th 1968]::
***
LAVER`s titles 30yrs+-->
***
8. 131. 16 September 1968 Pacific Southwest Open, Los Angeles Hard Ken Rosewall (4) 4-6, 6-0, 6-0
9. 132. 30 September 1968 South Texas Professional Championships, Corpus Christi, Texas, U.S. ??? Andres Gimeno 6-2, 6-4
10. 133. ?? November 1968 Sao Paulo, Brazil (4-man round robin) ??? Andrés Gimeno, Fred Stolle,
Roy Emerson (finished tied for second)
11. 134. ?? November 1968 La Paz, Bolivia (4-man round robin) ??? Andrés Gimeno, Fred Stolle,
Roy Emerson (finished tied for second)
12. 135. 20 January 1969 Australian Open, Brisbane (3) Grass Andrés Gimeno (2) 6-3, 6-4, 7-5
13. 136. 3 February 1969 Philadelphia Indoor Open WCT, Pennsylvania, U.S. Carpet Tony Roche (2) 7-5, 6-4, 6-4
14. 137. 10 February 1969 Orlando Professional Championships, Florida, U.S. (2) ??? Ken Rosewall (5) 6-3, 6-2
15. 138. 3 March 1969 Los Angeles Professional Championships, U.S. (2) ??? Marty Riessen 6-4, 10-8
16. 139. 31 March 1969 South African Open, Johannesburg Hard Tom Okker 6-3, 10-8, 6-3
17. 140. 21 April 1969 Anaheim Professional Championships, California, U.S. ??? Ronald Holmberg 31-16, 31-28
18. 141. 12 May 1969 Madison Square Garden Invitational, New York City (3) Indoor Roy Emerson 6-2, 4-6, 6-1
19. 142. 19 May 1969 BBC2 World Professional Championship, Wembley Arena, London Indoor Ken Rosewall (6) 8-6, 6-0
20. 143. 26 May 1969 French Open, Paris (2) Clay Ken Rosewall (7) 6-4, 6-3, 6-4
21. 144. 23 June 1969 Wimbledon, London (4) Grass John Newcombe (3) 6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-4
22. 145. 7 July 1969 U.S. Professional Championships, Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, U.S. (5) Uni-Turf (outdoor) John Newcombe (4) 7-5, 6-2, 4-6, 6-1
23. 146. ?? August 1969 Saint Louis Professional Championships, Missouri, U.S. ??? Fred Stolle 7-5, 3-6, 7-5
24. 147. 11 August 1969 Fort Worth Professional Championships, Texas, U.S. (2) Hard Ken Rosewall (8) 6-3, 6-2
25. 148. ?? August 1969 Binghamton Professional Championships, New York, U.S. (3) ??? Pancho Gonzales (2) 6-1, 6-2
26. 149. 18 August 1969 Baltimore Professional Championships, Maryland, U.S. (3) Grass Pancho Gonzales (3) 6-3, 3-6, 7-5, 4-6, 8-6
27. 150. 25 August 1969 U.S. Open, New York City (2) Grass Tony Roche (3) 7-9, 6-1, 6-2, 6-2
28. 151. 17 November 1969 British Covered Court Championships, London (2) Indoor Tony Roche (4) 6-4, 6-1, 6-3
29. 152. 1 December 1969 Madrid Professional Championships, Spain ??? Roger Taylor 6-3, 6-2
30. 153. 2 February 1970 Philadelphia Indoor Open WCT, Pennsylvania, U.S. (2) Carpet Tony Roche (5) 6-3, 8-6, 6-2
31. 154. 16 March 1970 Dunlop Slazenger International WCT, Sydney Grass Ken Rosewall (9) 3-6, 6-2, 3-6, 6-2, 6-3
32. 155. 30 March 1970 South African Open, Johannesburg (2) Hard Frew McMillan 4-6, 6-2, 6-1, 6-2
33. 156. 25 May 1970 Rawlings Classic WCT, Saint Louis, Missouri, U.S. (2) Carpet Ken Rosewall (10) 6-1, 6-4
34. 157. 15 June 1970 Rothman's Open, Queen's Club, London (2) Grass John Newcombe (5) 6-4, 6-3
35. 158. 16 July 1970 (date of final) Tennis Champions Classic, Madison Square Garden, New York City (site of final) Indoor Ken Rosewall (11) 6-4, 6-3, 6-3
36. 159. 27 July 1970 First National Classic, Louisville, Kentucky, U.S. Clay John Newcombe (6) 6-3, 6-3
37. 160. 10 August 1970 Bretton Woods (4 man), U.S. Clay Roy Emerson (2) 6-3, 6-3
38. 161. 10 August 1970 Rothman's Canadian Open, Toronto Clay Roger Taylor (2) 6-0, 4-6, 6-3
39. 162. 17 August 1970 National Invitation Tournament WCT, Fort Worth, Texas, U.S. (3) Hard Roy Emerson (3) 6-3, 7-5
40. 163. 24 August 1970 Marlboro Open, South Orange, New Jersey, U.S. (2) Grass Bob Carmichael 6-4, 6-2, 6-2
41. 164. 21 September 1970 Pepsi Pacific Southwest, Los Angeles, U.S. (2) Hard John Newcombe (7) 4-6, 6-4, 7-6
42. 165. 28 September 1970 Rothman's International WCT, Vancouver, Canada ??? Roy Emerson (4) 6-2, 6-1, 6-2
43. 166. ?? October 1970 Invitational Round Robin (4-man), Berlin, Bonn, & Saarbrücken, West Germany Carpet Tom Okker (finished second) N/A
44. 167. 16 November 1970 British Covered Court Championships, Wembley Arena, London (5) Carpet Cliff Richey 6-3, 6-4, 7-5
45. 168. 22 February 1971 Rothman's International, London Hard (I) Nikola Pilić 6-4, 6-0, 6-2
46. 169. 19 March 1971 (date of final) Tennis Champions Classic, New York City, Madison Square Garden (site of final) (2) indoor Tom Okker (2) 7-5, 6-2, 6-1
47. 170. 3 May 1971 Italian Open, Rome (2) Clay Jan Kodeš 7-5, 6-3, 6-3
48. 171. 16 August 1971 Colonial Championships WCT, Fort Worth, Texas, U.S. (4) Hard Marty Riessen (2) 2-6, 6-4, 3-6, 7-5, 6-3
49. 172. 23 August 1971 CBS Classic (4-man), Hilton Head, South Carolina, U.S. Clay John Newcombe (8) 6-2, 7-5
50. 173. 27 September 1971 Redwood Bank Pacific Coast Open, Berkeley, California, U.S. Hard Ken Rosewall (12) 6-4, 6-4, 7-6
51. 174. 7 November 1971 Rothman's Open WCT, Bologna, Italy Carpet Arthur Ashe 6-3, 6-4, 6-4
52. 175. 2 February 1972 Richmond WCT, U.S. Carpet Cliff Drysdale 2-6, 6-3, 7-5, 6-3
53. 176. 7 February 1972 Philadelphia WCT, U.S. Carpet Ken Rosewall (13) 4-6, 6-2, 6-2, 6-2
54. 177. 14 February 1972 Toronto WCT, Canada Carpet Ken Rosewall (14) 6-4, 6-1
55. 178. 3 April 1972 Houston WCT, U.S. Clay Ken Rosewall (15) 6-2, 6-4
56. 179. 24 April 1972 Denver WCT, U.S. Carpet Marty Riessen 4-6, 6-3, 6-4
57. 180. 15 January 1973 Miami WCT, U.S. Hard Dick Stockton 7-6, 6-3, 7-5
58. 181. 30 January 1973 Richmond, U.S. Carpet Roy Emerson (5) 6-4, 6-3
59. 182. 11 February 1973 Toronto WCT, Canada Carpet Roy Emerson (6) 6-3, 6-4
60. 183. ?? March 1973 Hilton Head CBS Classic, U.S. Clay Stan Smith 6-2, 6-4
61. 184. ?? September 1973 Hilton Head World Intvitational Tennis Classic (4-man), U.S. Hard Stan Smith 7-6, 7-5
62. 185. 29 October 1973 Hong Kong Hard Charlie Pasarell 6-3, 3-6, 6-2, 6-2
63. 186. 4 November 1973 Sydney Indoor, Australia Hard (i) John Newcombe 3-6, 7-5, 6-3, 3-6, 6-4
64. 187. 21 January 1974 Philadelphia WCT, U.S. Carpet Arthur Ashe 6-1, 6-4, 3-6, 6-4
65. 188. 25 March 1974 Palm Desert WCT, U.S. Hard Roscoe Tanner 6-4, 6-2
66. 189. 8 April 1974 Tokyo WCT, Japan Other Juan Gisbert 5-7, 6-2, 6-0
67. 190. 15 April 1974 Houston, U.S. Clay Björn Borg 7-6, 6-2
68. 191. 13 May 1974 Las Vegas, U.S. Hard Marty Riessen 6-2, 6-2
69. 192. 11 August 1974 Bretton Woods, U.S. Clay Harold Solomon 6-4, 6-3
70. 193. 13 January 1975 San Juan CBS Classic, Porto Rico Hard Allan Stone 6-2, 6-2
71. 194. 17 February 1975 La Costa WCT, U.S. Hard Allan Stone 6-2, 6-2
72. 195. 10 March 1975 São Paulo WCT, Brazil Carpet Charlie Pasarell 6-4, 6-4
73. 196. 17 March 1975 Caracas WCT, Venezuela Hard Raúl Ramírez 7-6, 6-2
74. 197. 24 March 1975 Orlando WCT, U.S. Hard Vitas Gerulaitis 6-3, 6-4
75. 198. 23 January 1976 Detroit, U.S. Indoor carpet Mark Cox 6-3, 6-4

fast_clay
04-26-2009, 03:45 AM
uni turf.... can anyone give me a description on that surface...?