2009 Updated ATP "Race" Thread [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2009 Updated ATP "Race" Thread

felipe2004
01-11-2009, 05:56 PM
Okay, so there is no official ATP Race this year, but I thought I could post a Race here then, since it should be interesting to see how players are doing this year. I will count here only Grand Slams, Masters 1000, ATP 500, ATP 250 and Challengers (no Futures). I think this could be made sticky on General Messages. I will post always the top 100. Let me know if there are any mistakes. ;) It will be interesting to see as well how balanced are the Challengrs with the ATP, since this yaer the official rankings are going to be a bit messy, because 2008 points are doubled there. :wavey:

Updated on Jun 15th (Queens, Halle and CHs compled)

Rank Player Points Low 500 Low Opt
1 Rafael Nadal (ESP) 6885 80 -
2 Roger Federer (SUI) 5460 - -
3 Andy Murray (GBR) 3780 - 250
4 Novak Djokovic (SRB) 3700 - 150
5 Juan Martin Del Potro (ARG) 2580 - 70
6 Andy Roddick (USA) 2440 - 90
7 Fernando Verdasco (ESP) 2040 - -
8 Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 1825 - -
9 Robin Soderling (SWE) 1650 - 105
10 Tommy Robredo (ESP) 1580 - 250
11 Jo-Wifried Tsonga (FRA) 1450 - 250
12 David Ferrer (ESP) 1330 45 90
13 Radek Stepanek (CZE) 1320 10 250
14 Marin Cilic (CRO) 1260 - 250
15 Gael Monfils (FRA) 1240 - 20
16 Gilles Simon (FRA) 1145 10 45
17 Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI) 1085 - -
18 Nikolay Davydenko (RUS) 975 - 20
19 Nicolas Almagro (ESP) 855 - 45
20 Juan Monaco (ARG) 770 - 25
21 Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER) 755 - 75
21 Tomas Berdych (CZE) 755 - 65
23 Viktor Troicki (SRB) 745 - 10
24 Tommy Haas (GER) 735 - -
25 Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) 700 - -
26 James Blake (USA) 690 - 150
26 Lleyton Hewitt (AUS) 690 - -
28 David Nalbandian (ARG) 665 - 90
29 Jeremy Chardy (FRA) 662 - 10
30 Mardy Fish (USA) 655 - 150

felipe2004
01-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Rank Player Points Low 500 Low Opt
31 Mikhail Youzhny (RUS) 640 14 20
32 Jose Acasuso (ARG) 625 - 10
33 Richard Gasquet (FRA) 605 - 90
34 Albert Montanes (ESP) 600 - -
34 Andreas Beck (GER) 600 - 8
36 Juan Carlos Ferrero (ESP) 584 - -
37 Igor Andreev (RUS) 580 - 20
38 Mario Ancic (CRO) 547 - 12
39 Dudi Sela (ISR) 541 - -
40 Sam Querry (USA) 540 - 20
41 Jurgen Melzer (AUT) 520 - 10
41 Paul-Henri Mathieu (FRA) 520 - 20
43 Benjamin Becker (GER) 516 - -
44 Janko Tipsarevic (SRB) 515 - 20
45 Guillermo Garcia-Lopez (ESP) 504 - -
46 Andreas Seppi (ITA) 495 - 20
47 Victor Hanescu (ROU) 475 - 10
48 Marc Gicquel (FRA) 474 - 9
49 Evgeny Korolev (RUS) 447 - -
50 Florent Serra (FRA) 445 - 20
50 Julien Benneteau (FRA) 445 - 20
52 Mischa Zverev (GER) 444 - 4
53 Christophe Rochus (BEL) 440 - -
54 Fabio Fognini (ITA) 425 - -
54 Florian Mayer (GER) 425 - -
56 Martin Vassallo Arguello (ARG) 420 - 20
57 Maximo Gonzalez (ARG) 416 - -
58 Frederico Gil (POR) 415 - -
59 Oscar Hernandez (ESP) 396 - 12
60 Simone Bolelli (ITA) 385 - 20

felipe2004
01-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Rank Player Points Low 500 Low Opt
61 Ivo Karlovic (CRO) 380 - 45
62 Potito Starace (ITA) 370 - 20
63 Arnaud Clement (FRA) 363 - 18
64 Marcos Baghdatis (CYP) 360 - -
65 John Isner (USA) 347 - -
65 Michael Russel (USA) 347 - -
67 Fabrice Santoro (FRA) 343 - -
68 Thomaz Bellucci (BRA) 339 - -
69 Pablo Cuevas (URU) 337 - -
70 Ivo Minar (CZE) 331 - -
71 Marat Safin (RUS) 330 - -
72 Juan Ignacio Chela (ARG) 327 20 20
73 Feliciano Lopez (ESP) 325 - -
73 Marcel Granollers (ESP) 325 - 20
73 Teimuraz Gabashvili (RUS) 325 - 14
76 Marcos Daniel (BRA) 323 - -
77 Horacio Zeballos (ARG) 319 - -
78 Rui Machado (POR) 317 - -
79 Ernersts Gulbis (LAT) 315 - 10
80 Michael Llodra (FRA) 308 - -
81 Yen-Hsun Lu (TPE) 301 - -
82 Bjorn Phau (GER) 298 - -
82 Kristof Vliegen (BEL) 298 - -
84 Daniel Koellerer (AUT) 292 - -
85 Brendan Evans (USA) 290 - -
86 Daniel Gimeno-Traver (ESP) 288 - -
86 Michael Berrer (GER) 288 - -
88 Wayne Odesnik (USA) 285 - -
89 Jan Hajek (CZE) 284 - -
89 Jarkko Nieminen (FIN) 284 - -

felipe2004
01-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Rank Player Points Low 500 Low Opt
91 Olivier Rochus (BEL) 283 - -
92 Dmitry Tursunov (RUS) 280 - 20
93 Josselin Ouanna (FRA) 277 - -
93 Victor Crivoi (ROU) 277 - -
95 Danai Udomchoke (THA) 275 - 6
96 Flavio Cipolla (ITA) 272 - 4
97 Santiago Ventura (ESP) 262 - -
98 Marco Chiudinelli (SUI) 261 - -
99 Steve Darcis (BEL) 260 - -
100 Daniel Brands (GER) 259 - -
101 Lukasz Kubot (POL) 254 - -
102 Santiago Giraldo (COL) 253 - -
103 Paul Capeville (CHI) 249 - -
103 Stefan Koubek (AUT) 249 - -
105 Sergiy Stakhovsky (UKR) 247 - -
106 Jan Hernych (CZE) 245 - -
106 Nicolas Kiefer (GER) 245 - -
108 Dominik Hrbaty (SVK) 230 - -
108 Peter Luczak (AUS) 230 - -
108 Rainer Schuettler (GER) 230 - 35
111 David Marrero (ESP) 228 - -
111 Ivan Dodig (CRO) 228 - -
113 Leonardo Mayer (ARG) 227 - -
113 Robert Kendrick (USA) 227 - -
115 Blaz Kavcic (SLO) 225 - -
116 Lukas Rosol (CZE) 223 - -
117 Alberto Martin (ESP) 222 - -
117 Nicolas Lapentti (ECU) 222 - -
119 Mathieu Montcourt (FRA) 220 - -
120 Igor Kunitsyn (RUS) 219 - -
120 Laurent Recouderc (FRA) 219 - -

Byrd
01-11-2009, 06:09 PM
Somdev>Nadull

Renaud
01-11-2009, 06:11 PM
[code] Position Player Points
62 Alex Bogdanovic (GBR) 17
62 Jean-Rene Lisnard (MON) 17


They wont finish lower at the end of 2009. Mark my words.

DartMarcus
01-11-2009, 06:12 PM
Good job, Man!!! Very interesting thread.

Tabledott
01-11-2009, 07:10 PM
Keep it goin pal !

nkp2
01-11-2009, 07:12 PM
Federer should be 8th equal not 14th??

felipe2004
01-12-2009, 12:34 AM
Federer should be 8th equal not 14th??

Yes, corrected. ;)

El Legenda
01-12-2009, 12:47 AM
this thread sucks.

duong
01-12-2009, 04:03 PM
Great ! :yeah:

I will also calculate it regularly,

and write it further in this thread.

I will try to include futures, especially for the players who play one occasionally but rather play in challengers.

We could check our calculations together, which would be great ! :yeah:

EDIT : For my last calculation (including futures, and sometimes earlier than Felipe's even though I make a little bit more mistakes)

see the end of the thread POST 244 PAGE 17.

Johnny Groove
01-12-2009, 04:36 PM
If you want to do a hypothetical race thread, you can't include challengers :shrug:

Other than that, fantastic idea. :yeah:

NinaNina19
01-12-2009, 04:44 PM
If you want to do a hypothetical race thread, you can't include challengers :shrug:

Other than that, fantastic idea. :yeah:

This year we can as all he wants to do is see the end of the year rankings.

duong
01-12-2009, 04:46 PM
If you want to do a hypothetical race thread, you can't include challengers :shrug:

I think the opposite : there was no reason other than business not to include challengers (and qualifyings) in the Race actually.

The purpose of this "Race" is to be easy to follow, and to predict the ranking in the end of the year

... and it will be all the more useful for that as the points of 2008 have been doubled in the rankings, and it's too much (a ratio around 1.3-1.4 would have been more fair)

Johnny Groove
01-12-2009, 05:04 PM
This year we can as all he wants to do is see the end of the year rankings.

I think the opposite : there was no reason other than business not to include challengers (and qualifyings) in the Race actually.

The purpose of this "Race" is to be easy to follow, and to predict the ranking in the end of the year

... and it will be all the more useful for that as the points of 2008 have been doubled in the rankings, and it's too much (a ratio around 1.3-1.4 would have been more fair)

Gotcha :yeah: Still a great idea

Horatio Caine
01-12-2009, 06:46 PM
I think you'd be best sticking with top 50 to be honest...your list might get a little difficult (time-consuming, more than anything) to maintain as we move deeper into the season. At least with top 50 you know that you only need to keep tabs on a handful of players that might be including some challenger results in their ranking. And, at the end of the day, we're mostly concerned with the highest rankings positions anyway.

Good job so far though. :)

duong
01-12-2009, 07:21 PM
I think you'd be best sticking with top 50 to be honest...your list might get a little difficult (time-consuming, more than anything) to maintain as we move deeper into the season. At least with top 50 you know that you only need to keep tabs on a handful of players that might be including some challenger results in their ranking. And, at the end of the day, we're mostly concerned with the highest rankings positions anyway.

Good job so far though. :)

I think it can be better to go further than top-50 as many people are also interested in further rankings and as the "ATP rankings" will really be damaged by the fact that the results in 2008 are overweighted.

felipe2004
01-12-2009, 07:41 PM
I plan to update this thread weekly, every Sunday or Monday, depending on when I will get the results of all tournaments that week.
And thanks for all the nice comments so far. ;)

Jedan Bjelorus
01-18-2009, 02:26 PM
Or it is an imposseble dream?

duong
01-18-2009, 02:32 PM
Or it is an imposseble dream?

Felipe2004 has started that.

Anyway, somebody will do that on this site throughout the year.

duong
01-18-2009, 02:43 PM
Felipe has updated the Race (including the challengers contrary to Judio) on posts 9-12

felipe2004
01-18-2009, 07:21 PM
Updated after Week 2 (Jan 12), on posts #9 to #12. BTW, I think it would be better if those posts were the firsts of this thread.

duong
01-18-2009, 08:21 PM
Updated after Week 2 (Jan 12), on posts #9 to #12. BTW, I think it would be better if those posts were the firsts of this thread.

Great ! :yeah:

You include the challengers, whereas Judio doesn't.

I think you should ask the forum for a more adequate thread, with your posts first, and to stick this thread.

I'm very happy that you keep on with that.

felipe2004
01-25-2009, 04:39 PM
Updated on posts #9 - #12. Updated after Day 7 of Australian Open and Iquique semifinal.

felipe2004
01-25-2009, 04:44 PM
BTW, is there any way to put those posts in the begining of this thread and/or make it sticky?

Ouragan
01-25-2009, 07:07 PM
Basically 1-8 in the entry rankings, as there won't be a slam winner outside these rankings.

I dunno about that, I somehow see Almagro winning Wimbledon and Berdych Roland-Garros

nkhera1
01-25-2009, 08:44 PM
Isn't using the regular season rankings a bit unfair because then the Masters Cup Participants of last year will still have those points while the other players trying to get in will not.

duong
01-26-2009, 12:18 PM
Isn't using the regular season rankings a bit unfair because then the Masters Cup Participants of last year will still have those points while the other players trying to get in will not.


no because they take out the points of last year's Masters Cup after Paris tournament

duong
01-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Here's the ATP Race (including challengers like Felipe, whereas Judio doesn't include them) updated after the 4th round (R16) in the Australian Open and the results of the final in the challenger in Iquique.

For the first ranks after the Australian Open, of course the first will be the winner, the second the finalist, the 3rd and 4th the semi-finalists :)

Both Felipe and I calculate that : it will help to correct each other's mistakes (for instance Felipe had missed 20 points for Yen Hsun Lu but Russell was omitted in mine ...).

The only difference between my work and Felipe's is that there's no exaequo in my calculation.

I order the players who have the same number of points according to :

1. highest number of points in Grand Slams and ATP1000 tournaments

2. highest number of results which are still left to be counted later in the year in tournaments other than Grand Slams and ATP1000 tournaments (for instance, a player who plays all grand slams and ATP1000 tournaments can count 6 more "other results" throughout the year ... but if he got 45 points in Doha, then he only has 5 results left available ; a player who hasn't played the Aus Open can count one more result).

3. if the player has validated all of his 6 (or more) results in tournaments other than grand slams and ATP1000 tournaments, the smallest number of points he validated.

4. smallest number of tournaments which the player has played (including the tournaments where he got zero point)

5. the ATP ranking

This week, I also included the results of the futures so far in the year which allows 3 players who played in the futures in the top-102 :
- Zeng Shao Xuan 39 points
- Lukas Lacko and Stephane Robert 32 points.

Here's the top-103 so far :

1 Del Potro 610
2 Roddick 510
3 Verdasco 510
4 Federer 450
5 Djokovic 450
6 Tsonga 450
7 Murray 430
8 Cilic 430
9 Nadal 405
10 Simon 360
11 Stepanek 340
12 Nalbandian 295
13 Monfils 270
14 Gasquet 270
15 Robredo 200
16 Berdych 200
17 Blake 180
18 Gonzalez 180
19 Baghdatis 180
20 Ferrer 180
21 Soderling 180
22 Nieminen 180
23 Querrey 160
24 Devvarman 158
25 Ancic 155
26 Mathieu 155
27 Sela 135
28 Almagro 135
29 Granollers 135
30 Kohlschreiber 135
31 F Mayer 125
32 Müller 122
33 Delic 116
34 Yen Hsun Lu 110
35 Andreev 110
36 Melzer 110
37 Tipsarevic 110
38 Cipolla 102
39 Chardy 102
40 Schuettler 100
41 Mello 100
42 Safin 90
43 Haas 90
44 Wawrinka 90
45 Santoro 90
46 Fish 90
47 Beck A 90
48 Karlovic 90
49 Hanescu 90
50 Troicki 90
51 Evans B 90
52 Gulbis 85
53 Gonzalez M 83
54 Giraldo 83
55 Malisse 82
56 Phau 80
57 De Chaunac 78
58 Hrbaty 70
59 Berrer 70
60 Korolev 70
61 Bolelli 65
62 Clément 65
63 Istomin 65
64 Guccione 65
65 Koubek 62
66 Capdeville 60
67 Isner 57
68 Hewitt 55
69 Stakhovsky 55
70 Serra 55
71 Nishikori 55
72 Reynolds 54
73 Dlouhy 53
74 Zeballos 53
75 Souza J 53
76 Llodra 50
77 Kindlmann 48
78 Hormazabal 48
79 Sweeting 47
80 Ljubicic 45
81 Garcia-Lopez 45
82 Canas 45
83 Fognini 45
84 Karanusic 45
85 Dabul 45
86 Tomic 45
87 Klein 45
88 Russell 45
89 Montcourt 41
90 Beck K 40
91 Zeng Shao Xuan 39
92 Dancevic 36
93 Odesnik 35
94 Rehnquist 35
95 Ouahab 35
96 Polansky 35
97 Stoppini 35
98 Brzezicki 35
99 Hocevar 35
100 Peya 32
101 Lacko 32
102 Robert 32
103 Berlocq 32

Ad Wim
01-26-2009, 03:40 PM
Great job guys :yeah:

GuiroNl
01-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Good thread. Makes it somewhat easier to follow the progression of the players this season.

felipe2004
01-26-2009, 11:51 PM
Updated posts #9-#12 after today.
Duong, I didn't miss Delic, we just have different points for him. I have 116 (12 for Brisbane and 104 for Australian Open). How did you get to 109?

duong
01-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Updated posts #9-#12 after today.
Duong, I didn't miss Delic, we just have different points for him. I have 116 (12 for Brisbane and 104 for Australian Open). How did you get to 109?

You are the one who's right, thank you very much :)

I had counted 5 points for Brisbane like for a challenger.

Anyway my work was not totaklly useless since I mentioned that Yen Hsun Lu had 110 points :o

Thank you, Felipe :D

duong
02-01-2009, 08:48 PM
To be confirmed by Felipe, but here's the Race so far,

including some points won in futures by Ouahab, Robert, Zeng Shao Xuan (I count them at once whereas they are only counted one week later in the Rankings) :

1 Nadal 2 045
2 Federer 1 290
3 Roddick 870
4 Verdasco 870
5 Del Potro 610
6 Djokovic 450
7 Tsonga 450
8 Murray 430
9 Cilic 430
10 Simon 360
11 Stepanek 340
12 Nalbandian 295
13 Monfils 270
14 Gasquet 270
15 Robredo 200
16 Berdych 200
17 Blake 180
18 Gonzalez 180
19 Baghdatis 180
20 Ferrer 180
21 Soderling 180
22 Nieminen 180
23 F Mayer 160
24 Querrey 160
25 Devvarman 158
26 Ancic 155
27 Mathieu 155
28 Sela 135
29 Almagro 135
30 Granollers 135
31 Kohlschreiber 135
32 Zeballos 128
33 Müller 122
34 Yen Hsun Lu 118
35 Delic 116
36 Becker 113
37 Andreev 110
38 Melzer 110
39 Tipsarevic 110
40 Odesnik 110
41 Berrer 105
42 Cipolla 102
43 Chardy 102
44 Schuettler 100
45 Mello 100
46 Beck K 100
47 Beck A 98
48 Safin 90
49 Haas 90
50 Wawrinka 90
51 Santoro 90
52 Fish 90
53 Karlovic 90
54 Hanescu 90
55 Troicki 90
56 Evans B 90
57 Gulbis 85
58 Clément 83
59 Gonzalez M 83
60 Giraldo 83
61 Malisse 82
62 Phau 80
63 De Chaunac 78
64 Stakhovsky 73
65 Hrbaty 70
66 Korolev 70
67 Souza J 66
68 Bolelli 65
69 Istomin 65
70 Guccione 65
71 Koubek 62
72 Ouahab 60
73 Capdeville 60
74 Isner 57
75 Hewitt 55
76 Serra 55
77 Nishikori 55
78 Reynolds 54
79 Dlouhy 53
80 Sweeting 53
81 Robert 51
82 Llodra 50
83 Kindlmann 48
84 Salamanca 48
85 Hormazabal 48
86 Ljubicic 45
87 Garcia-Lopez 45
88 Canas 45
89 Fognini 45
90 Karanusic 45
91 Dabul 45
92 Tomic 45
93 Klein 45
94 Jenkins 45
95 Russell 45
96 Polansky 41
97 Montcourt 41
98 Brzezicki 40
99 Zeng Shao Xuan 39
100 Petzschner 38

duong
02-01-2009, 10:38 PM
Note for next weeks :

the players who were in the top-30 on the 17th of november 2008 will not be allowed to count more than 2 results in ATP250 or challenger tournaments for the rankings in the end of the year
(except if their ranking declines so much that they are not allowed in the acceptance list of an ATP1000 tournament : in that case they will be allowed to count one more such result).

Then for Tsonga or Gasquet who have already counted 2 results in ATP250 tournaments,

I think it would be better to only replace the worst of these 2 results by their result (if better) in next ATP250 tournaments (for instance Johannesburg for Tsonga) rather than adding 3 or more ATP250 tournaments which they will not be allowed to count together in their rankings in the end of the year.

These players are :

Nadal
Federer
Djokovic
Murray
Davydenko
Tsonga
Simon
Roddick
Del Potro
Blake
Nalbandian
Ferrer
Wawrinka
Monfils
Gonzalez
Verdasco
Soderling
Almagro
Andreev
Berdych
Robredo
Tursunov
Cilic
Fish
Gasquet
Karlovic
Stepanek
Kohlschreiber
Safin
Schuettler

felipe2004
02-02-2009, 02:23 PM
Updated posts #9-#12 after Australian Open and the Challengers of this week. Top 10 of the year:

1 Rafael Nadal (ESP) 2045
2 Roger Federer (SUI) 1290
3 Andy Roddick (USA) 870
3 Fernando Verdasco (ESP) 870
5 Juan Martin Del Potro (ARG) 610
6 Jo-Wifried Tsonga (FRA) 450
6 Novak Djokovic (SRB) 450
8 Andy Murray (GBR) 430
8 Marin Cilic (CRO) 430
10 Gilles Simon (FRA) 360

amirbachar
02-02-2009, 06:39 PM
Note for next weeks :

the players who were in the top-30 on the 17th of november 2008 will not be allowed to count more than 2 results in ATP250 or challenger tournaments for the rankings in the end of the year
(except if their ranking declines so much that they are not allowed in the acceptance list of an ATP1000 tournament : in that case they will be allowed to count one more such result).

Then for Tsonga or Gasquet who have already counted 2 results in ATP250 tournaments,

I think it would be better to only replace the worst of these 2 results by their result (if better) in next ATP250 tournaments (for instance Johannesburg for Tsonga) rather than adding 3 or more ATP250 tournaments which they will not be allowed to count together in their rankings in the end of the year.

These players are :

Nadal
Federer
Djokovic
Murray
Davydenko
Tsonga
Simon
Roddick
Del Potro
Blake
Nalbandian
Ferrer
Wawrinka
Monfils
Gonzalez
Verdasco
Soderling
Almagro
Andreev
Berdych
Robredo
Tursunov
Cilic
Fish
Gasquet
Karlovic
Stepanek
Kohlschreiber
Safin
Schuettler

I think it's a good idea - if they won't qualify (or get WC)to any 1000 event then you can add another 250 event to their rankings.

felipe2004
02-02-2009, 07:58 PM
I think it's a good idea - if they won't qualify (or get WC)to any 1000 event then you can add another 250 event to their rankings.

Yeah, I agree. I'll do that.

Ranger
02-03-2009, 04:48 PM
Can someone explain me why there is sometimes a different from atp.com and other sources about the points from players?

For example Phau: He has 80 points but when you take a look at atptennis.com he got 0 points from AusOpen though he made the Q and 1st round. Or Isner who got 0 points. Other players have 10 points for loosing in 1st round, somebody with 0. Hope someone can explain me whats the reason.

duong
02-03-2009, 04:59 PM
Can someone explain me why there is sometimes a different from atp.com and other sources about the points from players?

For example Phau: He has 80 points but when you take a look at atptennis.com he got 0 points from AusOpen though he made the Q and 1st round.

Or Isner who got 0 points. Other players have 10 points for loosing in 1st round, somebody with 0. Hope someone can explain me whats the reason.

For Phau it must be a mistake.

For Isner, he reached the 1st round thanks to a wild-card : in that case it's normal that he has 0 point. Maybe it's also the case for other players you're interested in.

duong
02-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Thanks to Amirbachar :worship:, here's an information for those who want to follow an updated race as Judio wanted, without challengers, here is a link :

http://tenniscorner.net/index.php?corner=m&action=rankings&type=singles&race=yes

Felipe (and I) include challengers.

And I try to include futures, at least for the people who usually play challengers but sometimes play in futures like Ouahab.

duong
02-09-2009, 10:39 AM
Here's the top-100 of the updated ATP race on the 16th of february, including challengers and futures.

4 players in this list got some of their points in futures : Klein, Ouahab, Hormazabal and Salamanca.

Precision for players who were among the top-30 on the 17th of november 2008 : in the end of 2009, they will not be able to count more than 2 results in ATP250 tournaments or challengers in their Rankings (except if their rankings gets too low to enter ATP1000 tournaments : in that case they will be able to count one more ATP250 result) :
then in the Race, I will count only their 2 best results in ATP250 tournaments or challengers.

In blankets the number of ranks of improvement since last week for some players.

"New" means "new in the top-100".

I hope I didn't make any mistake and Felipe will confirm it (except that Felipe doesn't include Futures usually)

1 Nadal 2 345
2 Federer 1 290
3 Roddick 960
4 Murray 930 (+ 5)
5 Verdasco 870 (- 1)
6 Tsonga 745
7 Cilic 680 (- 2)
8 Del Potro 655 (- 1)
9 Stepanek 590 (+ 3)
10 Robredo 520 (+ 5)
11 Ancic 485 (+ 2)
12 Djokovic 450 (- 4)
13 Monfils 450 (+ 3)
14 Gonzalez 430 (- 4)
15 Simon 405 (- 4)
16 Ferrer 315 (+ 1)
17 Nalbandian 295 (- 3)
18 Blake 270 (+ 5)
19 Gasquet 270 (- 1)
20 Chardy 252 (- 1)
21 Fish 240 (+ 46)
22 Acasuso 240 (+ 9)
23 Baghdatis 225 (- 3)
24 Mathieu 220 (+ 3)
25 Berrer 215 (- 4)
26 Querrey 205 (+ 3)
27 Berdych 200 (- 5)
28 Almagro 180 (+ 6)
29 Soderling 180
30 Troicki 180
31 Nieminen 180
32 Bellucci 180 (New)
33 Gil 180 (+ 37)
34 F Mayer 160
35 Devvarman 158
36 Granollers 155
37 Klein 145 (+ 6)
38 Beck K 140
39 Sela 135
40 Haas 135 (+ 24)
41 De Chaunac 135
42 Kohlschreiber 135
43 Evans B 135
44 Gicquel 130 (New)
45 Delic 129
46 Stakhovsky 128
47 Zeballos 128
48 Sweeting 128
49 Cuevas 127 (+ 5)
50 Gulbis 125 (+ 5)
51 Müller 122
52 Benneteau 120 (New)
53 Youzhny 120 (New)
54 Yen Hsun Lu 118
55 Gonzalez M 115
56 Becker 113
57 Andreev 110
58 Melzer 110
59 Korolev 110 (+ 9)
60 Tipsarevic 110
61 Karlovic 110
62 Hanescu 110
63 Odesnik 110
64 Capdeville 105
65 Mello 105
66 Clément 103 (+ 7)
67 Giraldo 103
68 Cipolla 102
69 Schuettler 100
70 Hernych 100
71 Beck A 98
72 Llodra 95 (New)
73 Serra 95 (+ 7)
74 Safin 90
75 Wawrinka 90
76 Santoro 90
77 Garcia-Lopez 90
78 Dabul 85 (+ 7)
79 Istomin 85
80 Guccione 85 (+ 6)
81 Ouahab 85
82 Hrbaty 82
83 Malisse 82
84 Phau 80
85 Kudryavtsev 79
86 Isner 77 (+ 10)
87 Hormazabal 76
88 Vliegen 75
89 Monaco 75
90 Nishikori 75 (New)
91 Ferrero 75 (New)
92 Seppi 75 (New)
93 Salamanca 73 (New)
94 Widom 68 (New)
95 Tursunov 67 (New)
96 Souza J 66
97 Ljubicic 65
98 Fognini 65 (New)
99 Bolelli 65
100 Davydenko 65 (New)

Frooty_Bazooty
02-15-2009, 11:54 AM
ok just because the ATP is run by morons who want to get rid of the Champions race because having to discern 2 things apart is SOOOOOOOOOO confusing (i spend an hour every morning trying to work out if my pants go on my legs or over my head), that doesnt mean that we cant have our own champions race here. So as I sit here with my pants on my head, Ive just done out who i though is in the top 10 right now (entry points / 10)


01. nadal..... - 234.5 + ?20
02. federer... - 129
03. roddick... - 88.5 + ?10
04. murray.... - 73 + ?20
05. verdasco.. - 87
06. tsonga.... - 79
07. cilic..... - 68
08. del potro. - 65.5
09. robredo... - 54
10. stepanek.. - 49 + ?10
11. monfils... - 45
12. djokovic.. - 45
13. simon..... - 40.5
14. nalbandian - 29.5
15. blake..... - 27

List as of 15 Feb, not including San jose and Rotterdam winners
if any of you wanna post the points of any other of your favourite players, Ill edit them into the list :)

habibko
02-15-2009, 12:08 PM
I wanted to suggest a sticky thread with an updated race in MTF for a while now and you just reminded me, I think it's a must we have one if the ATP offical site doesn't have it, your ranking is confusing enough though :p in which system are you exactly giving the points out?

Frooty_Bazooty
02-15-2009, 12:28 PM
oh sorry, yea i forgot to say that. I just took their entry points and divided by 10

Certinfy
02-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Great thread mate, thx for posting :). Was always wondering this.

habibko
02-15-2009, 12:41 PM
just look at how Djokovic is doing so far, and Roddick at #3 ahead of Murray is amazing too :cool: it would be great if you could update it every now and then and maybe it will get "sticky" status :D

Frooty_Bazooty
02-15-2009, 04:05 PM
yea we should try and get that thread sticky asap, thanks for the link. i had done a search and hadnt found it

duong
02-16-2009, 07:08 AM
I updated post 45 for the Race on the 16th of february

amirbachar
02-16-2009, 08:37 AM
Please start a new thread (so the race will be the first message) and they the mods can make it sticky.

duong
02-16-2009, 09:03 AM
Please start a new thread (so the race will be the first message) and they the mods can make it sticky.

That's what I thought but I have to talk about that with Felipe and the mods.

felipe2004
02-17-2009, 02:42 AM
First posts updated after Rotterdam, Costa do Sauipe and San Jose completed.

felipe2004
02-17-2009, 02:45 AM
Please check for any mistakes, Duong and all the rest. ;)

~*BGT*~
02-17-2009, 05:45 AM
Andy is the third best player in the world. :p Wow, haven't been able to say that for 3 years. :lol:

duong
02-17-2009, 11:14 AM
If you want to do a hypothetical race thread, you can't include challengers :shrug:

Other than that, fantastic idea. :yeah:

I shall precise something about challengers :

as this year the ATP will use the Entry rankings to select the players for the Tennis Masters Cup,

then they will actually include the challengers.

Some people say that challengers would not change anything for the top-8.

Actually I can tell you that last year, Monfils could still take part in the Tennis Masters Cup in the final week.

And some of his entry points were related to his victory in the challenger in Marrakech.

Last year he could not use his challenger points to qualify to the Tennis Masters Cup,

but this year in the same situation, he would be able to :yeah:

Then yes, it's possible that a player qualifies for the TMC (namely now ATP world tour final) thanks to challenger points.

Small precision : the Entry Rankings after Paris-Bercy tournament which will be used to qualify for the Tennis Masters Cup will include some points won in challengers between the 17th of november 2008 and the 1st of january 2009.

These points are not included in this Race thread, which only start from the 1st of january.

amirbachar
02-17-2009, 02:21 PM
Small precision : the Entry Rankings after Paris-Bercy tournament which will be used to qualify for the Tennis Masters Cup will include some points won in challengers between the 17th of november 2008 and the 1st of january 2009.

These points are not included in this Race thread, which only start from the 1st of january.

That's a good point. However, there were no challengers after the 24th of November so it's only 2 weeks. There were just futures after that time.
It will be very interesting if it will change anything...

duong
02-17-2009, 03:09 PM
That's a good point. However, there were no challengers after the 24th of November so it's only 2 weeks. There were just futures after that time.
It will be very interesting if it will change anything...

That's not a very useful precision for the top-8

... but actually Schuettler had still managed to play one challenger in these very few weeks in 2007 ! :lol:

save ausdecline
02-19-2009, 09:02 AM
Yay Tomic the yongest to be on the Race

felipe2004
02-20-2009, 11:13 PM
Updated on February 20th (Memphis 2R, Marseille QF, Buenos Aires 2R, CH Belgrade QF, CH Tanger SF completed).

felipe2004
02-20-2009, 11:15 PM
I'll go traveling tomorrow morning and will come back only on Wednesday. So, no updates until then. ;)

duong
02-21-2009, 12:12 PM
I will update my calculation anyway :shrug:

Horatio Caine
02-21-2009, 12:22 PM
Keep up the good work mate. :yeah:

muc
02-23-2009, 07:32 PM
if there isn t for you i don t konow how would i get the race list,thanks again!!!

kaylee
02-23-2009, 08:52 PM
Finally Andy beating Roger - about time!

richie21
02-24-2009, 12:24 AM
This Tsonga is good.

felipe2004
02-24-2009, 09:34 PM
First posts updated with last week results. ;)

tangerine_dream
02-27-2009, 03:59 PM
1 Nadal 2 345
2 Roddick 1 460 (+ 1)
3 Federer 1 290 (- 1)
Haha, sweet. *takes a picture*

DartMarcus
02-27-2009, 05:19 PM
Unexpected good: Roddick, Tsonga, Stepanek, Verdasco, Sela, Robredo, Acasuso, Troicki...
Disappointing: Djokovic, Blake, all russians

Ivanatis
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
good thread, but why do you count challengers?:confused:
it would be less work without them and they weren't included in the race anyway

Certinfy
03-02-2009, 04:34 PM
*Hails Roddick*

Wicked thread btw OP.

felipe2004
03-02-2009, 10:20 PM
First posts updated after last week's results.

Sapeod
03-09-2009, 04:39 PM
Go Clement :rocker2: Go Vassallo-Arguello :rocker2: Go Berrer :rocker2:

felipe2004
03-12-2009, 12:09 AM
First posts updated with last week's results.

felipe2004
03-17-2009, 01:55 AM
Fisrt posts updated on March 16th (Indian Wells R2 and Challengers completed)

Stefwhit
03-20-2009, 03:40 AM
1 Rafael Nadal (ESP) 2470
2 Andy Roddick (USA) 1585
3 Roger Federer (SUI) 1335
4 Novak Djokovic (SRB) 1095
5 Andy Murray (GBR) 1065
6 Jo-Wifried Tsonga (FRA) 1035
7 Radek Stepanek (CZE) 940
8 Fernando Verdasco (ESP) 915

The top eight have finally shaped up into the "real" top eight. It always takes a bit of time and a few events before things get settled. Just bump out Stepanek and replace him with either Del Portro, Gael Monfils, or Giles Simon. I fully expect those ten to remain top ten from now till the end of the year (and again, i'm not including Stepanek).

felipe2004
03-21-2009, 04:18 AM
First Posts updated on March 21st (Indian Wells Q, Bogota Q, Sunrise R2, Marrakech Q, Bangkok Q and Caltanissetta Q completed).

jcempire
03-21-2009, 06:07 AM
Roddick get no 2 in ATP Race so far. Congrat to him

felipe2004
03-23-2009, 02:13 AM
First posts updated on March 22nd (Indian Wells, Bogota, Sunrise, Marrakech, Bangkok and Caltanissetta completed).

Bazooka
03-30-2009, 10:37 AM
LOL, Nadal leading the "race" with twice the points of his competitors, and all of this in hardcourt, clay season hasn't started yet!

If he somehow wins Miami, and has a clay run like usual, we may see him on June having won 2/2 slams and 5/5 AMS... :)

heya
03-30-2009, 09:50 PM
that's because Roddick smugly cancelled Dubai; had meltdowns in Australia, IW & San Jose.

nkhera1
03-30-2009, 10:35 PM
that's because Roddick smugly cancelled Dubai; had meltdowns in Australia, IW & San Jose.

Losing to Fed and Nadal are not considered meltdowns.

heya
03-30-2009, 11:11 PM
It is when you mumble,
grin constantly and double fault to
go down 0-40. No intensity and heart to win.

felipe2004
04-06-2009, 03:01 AM
First posts updated on April 5th with Miami and Challengers results.

illepingis
04-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Tsonga have 1265 points

duong
04-08-2009, 11:34 AM
Tsonga have 1265 points

The difference is that he's a 2008-year-end top-30 player and then cannot count more than 2 ATP-250 events in the same calendar year.

That's why we don't count Sydney (45 points) (it should be 1260 actually), as he already counts two wins in two ATP-250 events (Marseille and Johannesburg).

It's written here :

for players who were in the top-30 in the end of 2008, only 2 ATP250 of challenger tournaments are counted, according to the new ranking rules (eg Tsonga, Robredo).

Renaud
04-09-2009, 09:46 AM
Big chances we already have Master cup players in top 8. ;)

PiggyGotRoasted
04-09-2009, 02:31 PM
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/rankings/championsrace/default.asp

Renaud
04-09-2009, 02:49 PM
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/rankings/championsrace/default.asp
Ah ah, they don't count challengers...

duong
04-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Ah ah, they don't count challengers...

yes, and also they counted the Davis Cup only for Nadal and Berdych, they didn't count it for most of the players :rolleyes:

Anyway, this page is not yet indexed on their website, and the rulebook has not changed : it's still the entry rankings which count to qualify to the Masters Cup ... and the entry rankings include the challengers and the Davis Cup.

felipe2004
04-13-2009, 02:52 AM
First posts updated on April 12th (Casablanca, Houston and Challengers completed)

born_on_clay
04-13-2009, 10:10 AM
Great work!
Keep going like that :)

~*BGT*~
04-15-2009, 02:19 AM
Why is Roddick #3 with 2080 here but #4 with 2000 on the ATP site? Is it because of DC?

duong
04-15-2009, 09:27 AM
Why is Roddick #3 with 2080 here but #4 with 2000 on the ATP site? Is it because of DC?

yes they counted it for Nadal, not for Roddick :rolleyes:

asmazif
04-18-2009, 07:23 PM
...and Djoko's now 3 in the race. :)

Hola Mr. SK
04-19-2009, 06:57 AM
wow,Rod the real NO.3

FlameOn
04-19-2009, 07:23 AM
Ooh, another update would be good. :D

FlavorNuts
04-19-2009, 09:42 AM
we need someone who will actually update the list regularly to start a new race thread

felipe2004
04-20-2009, 01:29 AM
First posts updated on April 19th (Monte Carlo and Challengers completed).

Argenteniso
04-22-2009, 01:59 AM
I think players who have played 4 ATP 500 (like Ferrer counting Davis Cup) should only have 3 of them in this race, as one must be from a tournament post US Open. So I would erase the 40 points from Davis Cup (his worst 500) from Ferrer.

Frank Winkler
04-22-2009, 05:30 AM
1. 4605 Nadal 2000+1000+180+1000+300+80+45
2. 2980 Murray 180+1000+600+500+360+90+250
3. 2240 Djokovic 360+600+180+600+500+90+90+10
4. 2100 Federer 1200+360+360+90+90
5. 2080 Roddick 720+360+180+500+150+90+80
6. 1260 Verdasco 720+180+180+180

King Nadal will he win the slam?
Federer could be second again if he continues to perform well in slams.
I think he will.
It will be very tight between Roddick, Djokovic,Murray
Verdasco could have a huge upside at rolland garros.
Djokovic will definitely be there at rolland garros.
Roddick will come back strong at wimbledon and U.S open.
surprise but because of his poor showing at australian Murray may get squeezed out, unless he shows well at rolland garros which i doubt.
Wimbledon and us will decide it beween murray and roddick
My prediction
for year end
1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Murray,Djokovic, Roddick
6. Verdasco I think he will beat one of the guys above and sneak in at number 5

Its a toss-up exept for number one but it will be a toss up at wimbledon and the U.S. open. anyone of these guys can win it.

guptaji
04-22-2009, 06:02 AM
You know that these stats are available in the ATP race sticky.. right?

duong
04-22-2009, 09:15 AM
I think players who have played 4 ATP 500 (like Ferrer counting Davis Cup) should only have 3 of them in this race, as one must be from a tournament post US Open. So I would erase the 40 points from Davis Cup (his worst 500) from Ferrer.

You may be right. We have talked about that in the "ATP ranking thread" and this interpretation is very possible

... but I still think personally (as Judio) that this rule "one of them after the US open" is a commitment rule for the players (they are committed to play one ATP500 tournament after the US Open),

but if the result they have in an ATP500 tournament after the US open, is lower than their best 4 ATP500 results,

they will not count it : they will count the best 4.

There's one good reason to think that : in the ATP rankings, now, Andreev has 4 ATP-500 results (among them two zero), all 4 in the beginning of the year.

Also I feel that from the way I've been used to their way of writing and interpreting rules in the ATP.

Moreover, if I'm uncertain about that, I prefer counting it than not counting it ... because it's a player's achievement anyway.

Of course I may be wrong.

You can look the discussion about that in the "ATP ranking thread".

duong
04-22-2009, 09:32 AM
You know that these stats are available in the ATP race sticky.. right?

I don't know who you talk to,

but someone has shown us this link :

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/rankings/championsrace/default.asp

From what I know, this link has not been indexed on the ATP website : I could only access it from this direct link. Then I don't know how official it is. I already found that sometimes, they count the Davis Cup, sometimes they don't (and it's not because of what Argentineso just said)

Moreover, in this link, they don't count the challengers and futures : they do it the same way the ATP Race did last year.

There are multiple websites which calculate exactly the Race without challengers and futures, for instance :

http://tenniscorner.net/index.php?corner=m&action=rankings&type=singles&race=yes

(I think this one is updated day by day)

http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/TennisClassementATP.html

We here, together with Felipe, include challengers and futures.

There are two reasons for that :

- from the ATP rulebook, for the qualification for the Masters Cup, this year, it's the ATP Entry Rankings which will count, which do include the challengers and futures.

- I think it's interesting to count challengers (and even futures) because this way you can see some emerging players who could not play ATP tour tournaments, and predict the ATP rankings, which are the most interesting rankings (because even top-players play challengers, for instance the challenger in Sunrise this year had a better field than many ATP-tour tournaments with a final between Berdych and Söderling, and even smaller challengers top-players do play, like Monfils or Ljubicic last year).

Maybe people can gossip about the title of this thread (maybe we could change it), but anyway there's no more official definition of the "ATP Race", as the ATP Race is officially dead (see for instance the Ranking FAQ on the ATP website which explains that officially).

Then people can do the way they want, for the purpose they want.

Many websites calculate the Race without challengers, doing the same would be totally useless imo.

duong
04-22-2009, 09:47 AM
Ooh, another update would be good. :D

As it seems to be a common demand, we (together with Felipe) wil make an update every week, on thursday or friday.
I rather thought about friday, Felipe more about thursday.

Maybe Felipe and I might have different results if we don't update it the same day.

Anyway, this would be interesting for small changes in the Race, but don't forget that the main changes happen during the week-end, as the new ATP ranking system gives many many points to the final rounds.

tensyo
04-22-2009, 10:19 AM
Since you are in a generous mood :), may I request/suggest the following :

In the main table on page 1, have something similar to the Rankings thread table

1. a column for this weeks (current) position, a col for last week's position (to see player's movement) and a col for players ranking postion (to compare player's rank/race position)

2. Update on Sunday night/Monday since tournaments end on Sunday - better to see race position after each tournament. And you can still update on Thurs/Friday (or more often) so we can follow the progress thru a tournament (as Judio does after each round in the Rankings table)

duong
04-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Since you are in a generous mood :), may I request/suggest the following :

In the main table on page 1, have something similar to the Rankings thread table

1. a column for this weeks (current) position, a col for last week's position (to see player's movement) and a col for players ranking postion (to compare player's rank/race position)

2. Update on Sunday night/Monday since tournaments end on Sunday - better to see race position after each tournament. And you can still update on Thurs/Friday (or more often) so we can follow the progress thru a tournament (as Judio does after each round in the Rankings table)

The table in page 1 is of Felipe's responsibility.

My update is always on Sunday night or Monday (my update is in the end of the thread, post 101 page 7 for last one - on page 1, I write the post number to refer )

As to compare with last week position and with the ATP rankings,

I already make it in my table : maybe you might prefer a better presentation, but both comparisons are available.

tensyo
04-22-2009, 10:39 AM
The table in page 1 is of Felipe's responsibility.

My update is always on Sunday night or Monday (my update is in the end of the thread, post 101 page 7 for last one - on page 1, I write the post number to refer )

As to compare with last week position and with the ATP rankings,

I already make it in my table : maybe you might prefer a better presentation, but both comparisons are available.

OK I might have misunderstood you since you said you will update each week on thurs/friday. So thurs/fri update is in addition to sun/mon update?

Yes I noticed you have the data I asked for in yr table. +/- position is good, better than last weeks position. Perhaps you & Felipe to coordinate to have the same layout for your tables. And as you said perhaps change the presentaion layout like having headings for each column.

duong
04-22-2009, 11:00 AM
OK I might have misunderstood you since you said you will update each week on thurs/friday. So thurs/fri update is in addition to sun/mon update?

yes of course
(and I will keep previous week result table : I will only delete it next week, which means that on friday, there will be two tables, one for last monday comparing to previous monday, the other one for friday comparing to last monday).

Yes I noticed you have the data I asked for in yr table. +/- position is good, better than last weeks position. Perhaps you & Felipe to coordinate to have the same layout for your tables. And as you said perhaps change the presentaion layout like having headings for each column.

I will see to add headings for each column.

Felipe will do his best.

Btw, what might be interesting for you to know is that when I update on sunday or friday, the ATP rankings I give to compare are also updated rankings (more update than the ones on the ATP website) for most of the players (for players who are ranked more than 100, I usually keep last week ATP rankings), as I also calculate these ATP rankings on my computer.

For coordination with Felipe, if we have different results from each other, we check them and send PMs, I think it's very good like that, but for more coordination than that, it would be difficult.

You can understand that we calculate with different drawsheets, and we have different schedules (also Felipe is in Brasil and I'm in France).

Personally I think that it's better, richer and more reliable, that we are two persons to calculate this, as if someone has a mistake, the other one can correct it (don't forget that the other websites don't include challengers).

Also very important, because there will be some periods when one of us is on holiday (this will be my case from the 8th of may until the 2nd of june),

and fortunately the other one will be there.

I think people here are clever enough to understand that there's one calculation on the first page, another one in the last page, and they look at whichever they want.

tensyo
04-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Thanks for yr work.:wavey:

Argenteniso
04-22-2009, 05:02 PM
There's one good reason to think that : in the ATP rankings, now, Andreev has 4 ATP-500 results (among them two zero), all 4 in the beginning of the year.

That clears things up, thanks!! I thought that top-30s would have one 500 post-US Open in their rankings even if they got some better 500s.

Thanks again!! ;)

scott40
04-23-2009, 05:42 PM
very interesting to see Andreev with 4 ATP 500 events from 2009 counting in his rankings - I agree that it seems that as long as you actually compete in one ATP 500 event after the US Open that is enough, it does not have to count in your "best 4" if you get a bad score. It will only definitely count if you get a zero pointer for not entering one of these events after the US Open

Regarding how the ATP Race points are calculated. I know the page on the ATP site may not be official, nonetheless it is interesting that they seem to be counting Davis Cup points in the 250 category not the 500 category.

Look at Nadal - 80 DC points, only one score so far in a 250 event (45 points from Doha), so his DC points are in his "best 2 250 event scores" therefore the DC points count

However look at Djokovic (10 DC points), Roddick (80), Tsonga (40), Stepanek (40), Simon (10) - these players all already have 2 scores from 250 events that are higher than their DC scores, so the DC points do not count

Is this an error on the ATP site ? Shouldn't they all be counting the DC points, and in the 500 category ?

duong
04-24-2009, 09:21 AM
very interesting to see Andreev with 4 ATP 500 events from 2009 counting in his rankings - I agree that it seems that as long as you actually compete in one ATP 500 event after the US Open that is enough, it does not have to count in your "best 4" if you get a bad score. It will only definitely count if you get a zero pointer for not entering one of these events after the US Open

Regarding how the ATP Race points are calculated. I know the page on the ATP site may not be official, nonetheless it is interesting that they seem to be counting Davis Cup points in the 250 category not the 500 category.

Look at Nadal - 80 DC points, only one score so far in a 250 event (45 points from Doha), so his DC points are in his "best 2 250 event scores" therefore the DC points count

However look at Djokovic (10 DC points), Roddick (80), Tsonga (40), Stepanek (40), Simon (10) - these players all already have 2 scores from 250 events that are higher than their DC scores, so the DC points do not count

Is this an error on the ATP site ? Shouldn't they all be counting the DC points, and in the 500 category ?

Yes, you've probably found the explanation why the ATP "Race" calculation (on the link someone has given), counts the Davis Cup for some players, and not for others.

What should they do ?

Actually according to the ATP FAQ, for the rankings in the end of the year, the Davis cup must count among the ATP500 results

EXCEPT if a top-30 player has not played 4 (other) ATP events : in that case, he can only count it as an ATP250 event.

Personally I assume that most of the top-30 players will have respected their commitment for 4 ATP500 events (other than Davis Cup) by the end of the year.

Only Federer may not respect that, maybe Gonzalez (who plays his first one this week). Both of them did not play Davis Cup.

In that case, you have to consider that the Davis Cup will count as an ATP500 result in the end of the year. That's what Felipe and I did.

BUT let's go back to the ATP Race calculation.

I think the ATP did not prepare a specific computer program to calculate the Race.

That's why the calculation on the link may be calculated with the same program they use to calculate the ATP rankings ... only difference is that before calculating, they took out of the data all of the results in 2008.

In that case, what does this program see now ? Nearly all of these players have not yet played 4(other than DC) ATP500 events. That's why according to the rules which will be used in the end of the year, the Davis Cup shall count as an ATP250 result.

I will check a little bit more, but I think that's the explanation.

However in that case, I think this is a technical reason (because they did not use a specific program to calculate the Race) but it's not the best way to predict the rankings in the end of the year.

That's why I prefer counting the Davis Cup as an ATP500 result as I assume that all of the top-30 polayers who have played the Davis Cup will have played 4 (other) ATP500 events.

duong
04-24-2009, 10:32 AM
Yes I've checked on the ATP "Race" link :

your explanation (Davis Cup counts as an ATP250 event in their calculation so far) explains everything, why Davis Cup counts for some (non-top 30 players and top-30 players who have not more than 1 ATP250 event so far) and not for others.

What will be done for the ATP rankings in the end of the year ?

Here's what the ATP Rankings FAQ says :

Q. What are the ranking rules for players who compete in Davis Cup?

A. Davis Cup points will be awarded for the first time in 2009 for World Group and World Group playoff ties only. Points allocated are as part of the 500 point category. Davis Cup does not count towards a player's commitment to the 500 category. The points accumulated in the four ties within the previous 52 weeks can become part of a player's 500 category if:
1. Player has not more than three 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than lowest best other.
2. Player has four 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than the lowest 500. Also, 500 0-pointers cannot be replaced.

My interpretation of these sentences (helped by Amirbachar) is this one :

for a top-30 player, the Davis Cup result will count among ATP500 results if a player has played 4 (other) ATP 500 events, but it will count as an ATP250 or challenger result (which means that it can only replace an ATP250 or challenger result) if he has not respected this commitment

(for not-top-30 players we believe with Amirbachar that it will count as an ATP500 result anyway ... which means not more than 4 of these -including Davis Cup- may be counted)

It's true that at this time of the year, only Andreev had played 4 ATP500 tournaments ... and he did not play Davis Cup (next monday there will also be Ferrer ... but anyway, whatever considered as ATP500 or ATP250, it would not change anything : Davis Cup should not count for him)

Then so far, the program can only "see" that no top-30 player who has played the Davis Cup has respected his commitment so far ... then the Davis Cup may only count as an ATP250 result.

But as I told you, I assume that nearly all of the top-30 players will respect this commitment ... except players who have not played the Davis Cup (Federer, maybe Gonzalez).
Then before the end of the year, their Davis Cup result will be considered as an ATP500 result in this "Race calculation".

That's why already now, I prefer counting the Davis Cup as an ATP500 result (except if Federer or Gonzalez plays the play-off : for Federer at least I will count it as an ATP250 result as he will probably not respect his commitment to 4 ATP500 tournaments in the year).

Another note by the way : together with the challengers and futures, the "ATP Race" data base also excludes the results which players got in qualifying tournaments if they did not reach the main draw.

felipe2004
04-25-2009, 02:00 AM
First posts updated on April 24th (Barcelona QF, Sofia QF, Tallahassee SF, Rome SF completed). I added the columns Low 500 (which has the 4th best ATP 500 tournament counting in the ranking) and Low Opt (which has the lowest optional tournament counting in the ranking).

felipe2004
04-26-2009, 06:03 PM
Updated on April 26th (Barcelona, Sofia, Tallahassee, Rome CH completed)

scott40
04-27-2009, 04:00 PM
Q. What are the ranking rules for players who compete in Davis Cup?

A. Davis Cup points will be awarded for the first time in 2009 for World Group and World Group playoff ties only. Points allocated are as part of the 500 point category. Davis Cup does not count towards a player's commitment to the 500 category. The points accumulated in the four ties within the previous 52 weeks can become part of a player's 500 category if:
1. Player has not more than three 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than lowest best other.
2. Player has four 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than the lowest 500. Also, 500 0-pointers cannot be replaced.

I wonder if I was wrong about the Davis Cup counting in the ATP 250 category

looking at the rule above, Nadal could be counting his DC points in his ATP 500 after all because

1 - he only has three ATP 500 scores

2 - his DC points are better than his "lowest best other"

by "lowest best other" I think they must mean his second best score in his ATP 250 section (which is really called the "best other" section)

he only has one score in the "best other" section at the moment (45 points from Doha), hence his DC points are higher than his lowest best other (ie 0), and so do count, but count in the ATP 500 section NOT the best other section

this may all be largely academic anyway as it seems unlikely Nadal could end the season with a situation where Player has not more than three 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than lowest best other. because he already has three ATP 500 results - Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rotterdam. And he'll get a fourth at some stage - even if he doesn't enter another ATP 500 event he'll at least get a mandatory zero for missing one post-US Open event (barring some situation where he may be excused)

scott40
04-27-2009, 04:16 PM
Duong, are you saying that the Davis Cup counts towards your ATP 500 commitments ?

So you can play only 3 ATP 500 events (including one after the US Open) and not get a mandatory zero if you play the DC ?

rafa_maniac
04-27-2009, 04:35 PM
I wonder if I was wrong about the Davis Cup counting in the ATP 250 category

looking at the rule above, Nadal could be counting his DC points in his ATP 500 after all because

1 - he only has three ATP 500 scores

2 - his DC points are better than his "lowest best other"

by "lowest best other" I think they must mean his second best score in his ATP 250 section (which is really called the "best other" section)

he only has one score in the "best other" section at the moment (45 points from Doha), hence his DC points are higher than his lowest best other (ie 0), and so do count, but count in the ATP 500 section NOT the best other section

this may all be largely academic anyway as it seems unlikely Nadal could end the season with a situation where Player has not more than three 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than lowest best other. because he already has three ATP 500 results - Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rotterdam. And he'll get a fourth at some stage - even if he doesn't enter another ATP 500 event he'll at least get a mandatory zero for missing one post-US Open event (barring some situation where he may be excused)

Monte Carlo is an ATP 1000 tournament, not 500, it's just that it wasn't mandatory.

scott40
04-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Monte Carlo is an ATP 1000 tournament, not 500, it's just that it wasn't mandatory.

MC has the same ranking points as a 1000 event but counts as one of the 4 best 500 events in the rankings

also counts towards the commitment to play 4 ATP 500 events

duong
04-27-2009, 05:01 PM
Duong, are you saying that the Davis Cup counts towards your ATP 500 commitments ?

No, it doesn't count in the ATP500 commitment.

So you can play only 3 ATP 500 events (including one after the US Open) and not get a mandatory zero if you play the DC ?

no you get a mandatory zero in that case.

duong
04-27-2009, 05:15 PM
I wonder if I was wrong about the Davis Cup counting in the ATP 250 category

looking at the rule above, Nadal could be counting his DC points in his ATP 500 after all because

1 - he only has three ATP 500 scores

2 - his DC points are better than his "lowest best other"

by "lowest best other" I think they must mean his second best score in his ATP 250 section (which is really called the "best other" section)

exactly

he only has one score in the "best other" section at the moment (45 points from Doha), hence his DC points are higher than his lowest best other (ie 0), and so do count, but count in the ATP 500 section NOT the best other section


I must say I don't exactly understand your problem.

It seems that you understood everything like me :yeah:

but that your problem is about the words "it counts in the ATP500 section not the best other section" :

actually, imo, if the Davis Cup counts only if it's better than the lowest 250 (or challenger),

it's just the same as if it was considered to be in the ATP250 section.

It's true that the ATP words in the Faq say "may be counted in the ATP500 category"

... but imo, it's a matter of words, but what's more important is understanding what they really do.
And the way they do it we have understood the same way
... and it seems to me that it's just as if the Davis Cup was included in the "ATP250/challenger" section in that case.

It seems to me that the way you had described it in the beginning is correct :

- if the player has played 4 ATP500 events (including Monte-Carlo excluding Davis Cup) the Davis Cup is considered like an ATP500 result in the ATP's calculation

- if the player has played 3 ATP500 events (including MC excluding Davis Cup) or less, the Davis Cup is considered like an ATP250 result in the ATP's calculation.

And so far the fact is that among top-30 players, only Ferrer and Andreev have played 4 ATP500 events (including Monte-Carlo excluding Davis Cup) then apart from them, the Davis Cup is considered as an ATP250 result for players of the top-30.

I have to say it's the rule I've had most difficulties to understand since the new system was presented :rolleyes:

Thanks to Amirbachar I think I've understood the way it works and the logic of that.

And thanks to you I understood why the "Race calculation" is like that on the ATP website so far :)

scott40
04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Problem is this -

at the moment Nadal has the following scores

ATP 500 section - 1,000 (Monte Carlo), 500 (Barcelona) and 300 (Rotterdam)

ATP 250 section - 45 (Doha)

He also has 90 points from the Davis Cup.

This is being counted in his total, but it is unclear whether it is part of the 500 or 250 sections

Now here's the problem

Say Nadal got another quarter final in a 250 event, then his points would look like

ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300
ATP 250 - 45 + 45

his Davis Cup points would still count, but where ?

Would it be
ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300 + 90
ATP 250 - 45 + 45

Or would it be like this ?
ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300
ATP 250 - 90 + 45
not counting - 45

I think its the former

Anyway its largely academic for Nadal, though it could prove an issue for another player

For example, is it possible for a top 30 player to only play 3 x 500 events and not get a mandatory zero ?

Look at Nadal and Dubai - can a verified injury mean you avoid the mandatory zero but still get to count it towrads your commitment of 4 events because you enetered ?

duong
04-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Problem is this -

at the moment Nadal has the following scores

ATP 500 section - 1,000 (Monte Carlo), 500 (Barcelona) and 300 (Rotterdam)

ATP 250 section - 45 (Doha)

He also has 90 points from the Davis Cup.

This is being counted in his total, but it is unclear whether it is part of the 500 or 250 sections

Now here's the problem

Say Nadal got another quarter final in a 250 event, then his points would look like

ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300
ATP 250 - 45 + 45

his Davis Cup points would still count, but where ?

Would it be
ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300 + 90
ATP 250 - 45 + 45

Or would it be like this ?
ATP 500 - 1,000 + 500 + 300
ATP 250 - 90 + 45
not counting - 45

I think its the former

Ah for that we don't agree : I think it's the latter
(btw Nadal has 80 points in Davis Cup, not 90)

When you look at the rule :

Q. What are the ranking rules for players who compete in Davis Cup?

A. Davis Cup points will be awarded for the first time in 2009 for World Group and World Group playoff ties only. Points allocated are as part of the 500 point category. Davis Cup does not count towards a player's commitment to the 500 category. The points accumulated in the four ties within the previous 52 weeks can become part of a player's 500 category if:
1. Player has not more than three 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than lowest best other.
2. Player has four 500 results within the previous 52 weeks and Davis Cup result(s) is better than the lowest 500. Also, 500 0-pointers cannot be replaced.

the distinction is between "player has 4 ATP500 results" and "player has not more than three 500 results"

(which Amirbachar helped me to understand as "if he has played 4 ATP500 events" and "if he has played not more than 3 ATP500 events") :

the number of ATP250 events he has played doesn't change anything in the way you have to deal with the rule.


For example, is it possible for a top 30 player to only play 3 x 500 events and not get a mandatory zero ?

From what Amirbachar has made me understand no.
If you have not respected your commitment for 4 ATP 500 events (including Monte-Carlo excluding Davis Cup) your 4th result must be a zero (which is quite logical by the way, as a penalty)
... and that's why in that case the Davis Cup cannot be counted as a 4th ATP500 event, which imo should be described as "cannot be counted in the ATP500 category".

BUT in that case the ATP allows the top-30 players to count the Davis Cup among ATP250 events, mostly to let them have a more equal situation with the not-top30 players.

imo it's a compensation for the fact that the Davis Cup cannot be counted to respect the commitment of 4 ATP500 events for the top-30 players.

Look at Nadal and Dubai - can a verified injury mean you avoid the mandatory zero but still get to count it towrads your commitment of 4 events because you enetered ?

This is another interesting question, but from my experience of the ATP I think not.
I think the ATP can take out a fine or suspension if you have a verified injury but they will not give you anymore "gift" for that : for instance if you are allowed to enter a Masters Series 1000 but you are injured for that, you will get a zero but you will not be allowed to replace it with another result, as the players who are not allowed to enter, can do.
In that case, the ATP will only take out the fine and the suspension for another Masters Series, that's all.

duong
04-27-2009, 06:59 PM
Look at Nadal and Dubai - can a verified injury mean you avoid the mandatory zero but still get to count it towrads your commitment of 4 events because you enetered ?

This is another interesting question, but from my experience of the ATP I think not.
I think the ATP can take out a fine or suspension if you have a verified injury but they will not give you anymore "gift" for that : for instance if you are allowed to enter a Masters Series 1000 but you are injured for that, you will get a zero but you will not be allowed to replace it with another result, as the players who are not allowed to enter, can do.
In that case, the ATP will only take out the fine and the suspension for another Masters Series, that's all.

After reflexion, looking at the question you raised in the "ATP rankings thread" and looking at Smucav's answer, I think you are right : it can count in the "4 ATP500 events commitment".

Because, yes, imagine a player who is injured and cannot play after the US Open, I think he should not be penalised for that.

BUT I have to say that the "commitment mention" in the ATP rules has mainly an implication on the money bonus (I think they call it "pool") you get in the end of the season.

I think you may be right for that money matter (actually it's mainly good for Federer who will probably not play more than 3 ATP500 events but can say he committed by making promotion in Dubai),

but I think it changes nothing for the ranking points :

in particular for the Davis Cup if you look at what's written in the ATP faq, they don't say "if a player respects his commitment", but they say "if a player has 4 results" (actually what I had difficulty to understand in the beginning is that losing in the first round and getting zero for that IS actually a result - that's what Amirbachar made me understand)

Bazooka
04-28-2009, 05:41 PM
So let's see if I understood you both. Nadal could play just one more 500 this year, let's say Valencia, and as he has played Rotterdam, Barcelona and Montecarlo he would get no zero pointer?

But his DC points would only count if they were higher than his lowest result in a 500 (in this case Rotterdam with 300).

Does it work this way?

decrepitude
04-28-2009, 06:43 PM
My head is aching!!

duong
04-29-2009, 11:35 AM
So let's see if I understood you both. Nadal could play just one more 500 this year, let's say Valencia, and as he has played Rotterdam, Barcelona and Montecarlo he would get no zero pointer?

But his DC points would only count if they were higher than his lowest result in a 500 (in this case Rotterdam with 300).

Does it work this way?

yes : for most of the players (who will play 4 ATP500 events including Monte-Carlo and apart from Davis Cup),

it will work like that.

As far as Nadal is concerned, I don't know for Valencia, but he's announced that he will play Beijing.

duong
04-29-2009, 11:36 AM
My head is aching!!

I understand : I felt the same in the beginning about that Davis Cup rule :lol:

Johnny Groove
04-30-2009, 10:20 PM
This mandatory 500 shit is stupid.

Steelq
05-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Number 2 and 3 combined have less points in the race than number 1.That's just sick.

duong
05-03-2009, 07:42 PM
I'm going on holiday for one month, and then I will not update my calculation until the end of Roland-Garros.

I hope and guess that Felipe will update his calculation on the first page :)

FaceyFacem
05-03-2009, 10:28 PM
pretty interesting that djokovic is ahead of murray after all the talk of his "decline" early this year; despite the fact i am a big fan of his, it does FEEL like murray should be 2... shaping up to be a fun year!

Rafaseb
05-04-2009, 11:18 AM
I'm going on holiday for one month, and then I will not update my calculation until the end of Roland-Garros.


Merci pour les update :worship: et Bonnes Vacances ! :silly:

pica_pica
05-04-2009, 03:55 PM
So we're going to have in the rankings: Federer(2), Murray(3), Djokovic(4)
And then quite the opposite in the race: Djokovic(2), Murray(3), Federer(4)
It's like these three are at tie now

amirbachar
05-14-2009, 04:54 AM
Here is the race with only ATP tournaments (no challengers):
http://tenniscorner.net/index.php?corner=m&action=rankings&type=singles&race=yes

rafa_maniac
05-14-2009, 08:26 AM
Are last year's Hamburg points coming off at the same time as the Madrid points go on, or is there a week delay?

Saumon
05-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Are last year's Hamburg points coming off at the same time as the Madrid points go on, or is there a week delay?

Wrong thread ;)

TennisViewer531
05-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Murray is definitely playing like the world's number 2 these days.

Stefwhit
05-16-2009, 04:25 PM
^a strong case could be made for Djokovic as well- especially as of late...

pica_pica
05-17-2009, 08:27 PM
Now is Roger passing Murray in the Race?

TennisViewer531
05-18-2009, 12:32 PM
Nice to see Roger maintaining his number two ranking...

GuiroNl
05-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I'm sorry if this has been posted before, but have you guys noticed that the ATP is still keeping track of the race?
http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/rankings/championsrace/

How bizarre (wait for the page to load and scroll down a bit)

felipe2004
05-21-2009, 03:31 AM
First posts finally updated after Madrid! :D Sorry for the delay. ;)

pica_pica
05-21-2009, 10:11 AM
First posts finally updated after Madrid! :D Sorry for the delay. ;)
:worship: Thanks for your effort :)

LocoPorElTenis
05-21-2009, 10:47 AM
So "real number 2" Murray has dropped to 4 in the race...

Sapeod
05-22-2009, 05:13 PM
So "real number 2" Murray has dropped to 4 in the race...
Because of the clay season :o Doesn't really say much. He is the real number 2 :devil: Except on clay.

felipe2004
05-25-2009, 01:38 AM
First posts updated on May 24th (Kitzbuhel, World Team Cup and CH completed).

jcempire
05-25-2009, 02:00 PM
pretty interesting that djokovic is ahead of murray after all the talk of his "decline" early this year; despite the fact i am a big fan of his, it does FEEL like murray should be 2... shaping up to be a fun year!

he actually got more points than Murray in the masters

felipe2004
05-28-2009, 03:07 AM
First posts updated on May 27th (Roland Garros (after day 4), Carson CH R2)

felipe2004
06-03-2009, 02:50 AM
First posts updated on Jun 2nd (Roland Garros (after day 10), Carson, Alessandria, Karlsruhe completed). Federer into Top 2, Gonzalez into Top 8 and Soderling into Top 15.

DartMarcus
06-04-2009, 02:05 PM
Tursunov No. 91 :o :help:

felipe2004
06-07-2009, 07:15 PM
First posts updated on Jun 7th (Roland Garros, Prostejov, Furth, Nottingham compled, Yuba City final).

Ruski
06-08-2009, 03:27 AM
Really hope Federer can be the year end No.1 in 2009!!!!!

felipe2004
06-17-2009, 12:29 AM
First posts updated on Jun 15th (Queens, Halle and CHs compled).

superslam77
07-05-2009, 08:14 PM
What a great day in tennis!!!

Tennis is alive and well :)

Sapeod
07-06-2009, 01:26 AM
What a great day in tennis!!!

Tennis is alive and well :)
I know superslam :yeah: Now all we need is for Murray and Roddick to go onfront of him. Oh, it's so exciting :D

Audacity
07-14-2009, 06:19 AM
Is Peter Luczak far outside of the top 100 for this race?

duong
07-14-2009, 08:33 AM
Is Peter Luczak far outside of the top 100 for this race?

Luczak has 253 points after his win yesterday.

must be around 140.

Audacity
07-14-2009, 08:41 AM
Cool thanks.

duong
07-14-2009, 09:15 AM
Cool thanks.

maybe rather around 130

Sapeod
07-14-2009, 09:20 AM
Where is Bogdanovic in the race. He has 136 points I think.

duong
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Where is Bogdanovic in the race. He has 136 points I think.

yes exactly. It's quite far :rolleyes: can't tell you more precisely

Sapeod
07-15-2009, 12:04 AM
yes exactly. It's quite far :rolleyes: can't tell you more precisely
I Luczak is at 130 wih 250 points, then Boggo must be in the 200s :o

duong
07-15-2009, 07:47 AM
I Luczak is at 130 wih 250 points, then Boggo must be in the 200s :o

maybe a little bit better but something like that, yes :lol:

Sapeod
07-19-2009, 12:59 PM
maybe a little bit better but something like that, yes :lol:
British number 2????? :o :o :o :o If he was Spanish he'd be Spanish number 30 or something :o

Goldenoldie
07-19-2009, 01:17 PM
British number 2????? :o :o :o :o If he was Spanish he'd be Spanish number 30 or something :o

I don't know about the race, but in the rankings he is down to #4 this week.

Sapeod
07-19-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't know about the race, but in the rankings he is down to #4 this week.
I know, but he's won the most points this year of the Brits, except for Murray of course, so he's number 2 in the race :o

Audacity
07-19-2009, 01:35 PM
British tennis. :worship:

Sadly Australia is not much better...

Goldenoldie
07-19-2009, 02:17 PM
I know, but he's won the most points this year of the Brits, except for Murray of course, so he's number 2 in the race :o

Fair enough!

uNIVERSE mAN
07-19-2009, 03:25 PM
why's this piece of shit thread in sticky if it never gets updated?

blizzardtomato
07-19-2009, 10:19 PM
Duong's been updating it in msg #160 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=138609&page=11), learn to read... :o

By the way Duong, how come your race and the ranks of the top players are different from tennis.com (http://www.tennis.com/rankings/points_men.aspx?id=40698) and ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/rankings?year=2009&type=3)? ;)

Etern
07-19-2009, 11:43 PM
Well I kind of agree with uNIVERSE mAN; it's great that duong is updating the race but wouldn't it be better if the updates would be in the first post? ( =start a new thread were someone who is active has the first posts, for example duong if he/she feels like it). Just my opinion and wish :)

duong
07-20-2009, 12:12 AM
By the way Duong, how come your race and the ranks of the top players are different from tennis.com (http://www.tennis.com/rankings/points_men.aspx?id=40698) and ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/rankings?year=2009&type=3)? ;)

Judging from Djokovic's and Davydenko's number of points, it seems that this Race is the one from one year ago :o

duong
07-20-2009, 12:14 AM
Well I kind of agree with uNIVERSE mAN; it's great that duong is updating the race but wouldn't it be better if the updates would be in the first post? ( =start a new thread were someone who is active has the first posts, for example duong if he/she feels like it). Just my opinion and wish :)

I don't know if Felipe is only on holiday and will come back later,
or if he has given it up.

If anybody has some news thanks in advance :worship:

blizzardtomato
07-20-2009, 11:27 AM
Nice update duong. Keep up the good work!

Can someone tell me how many points brought a tournament worth 250 points in 2008?
- in 2009 Win: 250, F: 150, S: 90, Q: 45, R16: 20, R32: 0
- in 2008 Win: 250, F: ?

Any good link answering those questions?

duong
07-20-2009, 01:01 PM
Can someone tell me how many points brought a tournament worth 250 points in 2008?
- in 2009 Win: 250, F: 150, S: 90, Q: 45, R16: 20, R32: 0
- in 2008 Win: 250, F: ?

A basic equivalent of an ATP250 tournament gave (after doubling, as the points from 2008 have been doubled) :

W 350 F 240 S 150 Q 80 R16 30 R32 10

(by the way in 2009 R32 gives 10 points if the draw is larger than 32)

but some tournaments gave more than that :

Marseille/New Haven : W 400 F 280 S 180 Q 100 R16 30/40 (40 in New Haven where there was one round more) r32 20 (New Haven)

Queens/Halle/Lyon/Stockholm : W 450 F 310 S 200 Q 110 R16 40 R32 20

Doha/St Petersburg/Stuttgart/Vienna/Kitzbuhel : W 500 F 350 S 220 Q 120 R16 50

Etern
07-20-2009, 02:36 PM
I don't know if Felipe is only on holiday and will come back later,
or if he has given it up.

If anybody has some news thanks in advance :worship:

I guess we just have to wait and see :)

It's great to see Söderling top 8 at the race, hopefully he will be able to maintain it.

Argenteniso
07-20-2009, 07:30 PM
I think the sum total of Rajeev Ram's points is 424 points (not 439) from my account. Here's my list

WIMBLEDON 35
Newport 250
Baton Rouge 45
Khorat 27
Dallas 27
Chennai 12
Roland Garros-Q 8
Rodas 8
Winnetka 6
Nottingham Ch 6
Total 424p

duong
07-20-2009, 10:05 PM
I think the sum total of Rajeev Ram's points is 424 points (not 439) from my account. Here's my list

WIMBLEDON 35
Newport 250
Baton Rouge 45
Khorat 27
Dallas 27
Chennai 12
Roland Garros-Q 8
Rodas 8
Winnetka 6
Nottingham Ch 6
Total 424p

You're right : thanks a lot ! :yeah:

blizzardtomato
07-21-2009, 09:05 PM
A basic equivalent of an ATP250 tournament gave (after doubling, as the points from 2008 have been doubled) :

W 350 F 240 S 150 Q 80 R16 30 R32 10

(by the way in 2009 R32 gives 10 points if the draw is larger than 32)

but some tournaments gave more than that :

Marseille/New Haven : W 400 F 280 S 180 Q 100 R16 30/40 (40 in New Haven where there was one round more) r32 20 (New Haven)

Queens/Halle/Lyon/Stockholm : W 450 F 310 S 200 Q 110 R16 40 R32 20

Doha/St Petersburg/Stuttgart/Vienna/Kitzbuhel : W 500 F 350 S 220 Q 120 R16 50
Thx for your equivalent examples, but my question actually was about a tournament bringing 250 pts in 2008:
W250 F? ... ;)

Any good link answering those kind of questions points?

duong
07-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Thx for your equivalent examples, but my question actually was about a tournament bringing 250 pts in 2008:
W250 F? ... ;)

Any good link answering those kind of questions points?

See Doha/St Petersburg/Stuttgart/Vienna/Kitzbuhel in my example : before doubling they gave 250 points to the winner, just divide by 2.

There was no tournament at all last year giving 125 points (which means 250 points after doubling).

blizzardtomato
07-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Ok, thx for the answer. :cool:

No link that you would recommend about those points questions?

duong
07-22-2009, 10:22 PM
Ok, thx for the answer. :cool:

No link that you would recommend about those points questions?

What question exactly ?

What is your interest ?

IF your interest is about the new ranking system, we had a very very long discussion here :

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=135286

Sapeod
08-03-2009, 08:51 AM
Good to see Gulbis will drop nearly out of the top 100 soon.

blizzardtomato
08-03-2009, 09:35 AM
Great job again, duong. :drool:

Seems that the year-end #1 is still very much disputed, with Nadal currently with less than 600 pts behind fed.

duong
08-03-2009, 09:51 AM
Good to see Gulbis will drop nearly out of the top 100 soon.

actually he's already 101st in the ATP rankings (I adjusted the ATP_ranks : around the 100th rank my first estimation is not completely reliable).

Strange to see Daniel, Gicquel, and Santoro around 50th rank in the Race : they are 31 and a half, 32 and a half, 36 and a half years old ... and Daniel has his best years after 30 years old :lol:

Sapeod
08-03-2009, 09:55 AM
actually he's already 101st in the ATP rankings (I adjusted the ATP_ranks : around the 100th rank my first estimation is not completely reliable).

Strange to see Daniel, Gicquel, and Santoro around 50th rank in the Race : they are 31 and a half, 32 and a half, 36 and a half years old ... and Daniel has his best years after 30 years old :lol:
He's alreay dropped out of top 100? Good good. If he starts playing like the GS winner he has been claimed to be he can enter back.

Yes, Gicquel, Santoro and Daniel doing well in their careers. Kudos :hatoff:

Argenteniso
08-03-2009, 05:18 PM
I thinnk Garcia-Lopez has 684 points. The 20pts from Queen's Club don't count towards his ranking as that's his best 8th result and he counts only the best other 7 results (he didn't qualify for Rome)

duong
08-03-2009, 06:02 PM
I thinnk Garcia-Lopez has 684 points. The 20pts from Queen's Club don't count towards his ranking as that's his best 8th result and he counts only the best other 7 results (he didn't qualify for Rome)

you're absolutely right, thanks a lot ! :yeah:

(my mistake comes from Madrid : he did not qualify and was a lucky-loser there, and I counted him as not qualified for the number of results allowed)

balzac1970
08-05-2009, 02:36 PM
Hello everybody, and sorry if my English is not good enough. Let me ask you this: why is Rainer Schuettler not included in the "race" list of top 100? According the "Best 18" Singles Points Breakdown in the ATP site, he has more than 400 points. I am wrong? Thank you!!

duong
08-05-2009, 02:51 PM
Hello everybody, and sorry if my English is not good enough. Let me ask you this: why is Rainer Schuettler not included in the "race" list of top 100? According the "Best 18" Singles Points Breakdown in the ATP site, he has more than 400 points. I am wrong? Thank you!!

Because as a top-30 player on the 17th of november 2008, he will be only allowed to count 2 ATP250 results or challengers in the end of this year.

That's one sily point about the new ATP ranking system : depending on your ranking in the end of last year, your number of ATP points is not counted the same :rolleyes:

If he had not been in the top-30 in the end of last year, he would have 75 points more :shrug:

But actually after winning yesterday his first match in an ATP500 tournament this year, he has come back in the top-100 in my calculation :lol:

Sunset of Age
08-05-2009, 04:18 PM
That's one sily point about the new ATP ranking system : depending on your ranking in the end of last year, your number of ATP points is not counted the same :rolleyes:

If he had not been in the top-30 in the end of last year, he would have 75 points more :shrug:

Yeah, isn't that completely UNFAIR and :retard:? I think it is.
BTW duong, thanks for all your awesome work regarding rankings & 'race'. :worship:

duong
08-05-2009, 04:36 PM
Yeah, isn't that completely UNFAIR and :retard:?

I think there's a counterpart that the best ranked players take more part in MS1000 and also ATP500 tournaments which give more points than before (although it's not the case for the biggest ATP500 : Barcelona Dubai Rotterdam, which gave even more points previously).

However that's really a problem for players who are not as good as top-30/50 anymore and cannot win many matches in ATP500/MS1000 tournaments.

Actually there are not many ones this year as the top-30 is very stable except injury (Nalbandian) or suspension (Gasquet). Schuettler is the most especially concerned, then Tursunov and Blake (and Safin, who is quite special case as he doesn't take part or win any matches in ATP250 tournaments :lol: ).

However, for Schuettler, it's very possible that he's not allowed to take part in the MS1000 of Cinci, Shanghai and Paris-Bercy,
then at that moment he will be allowed to count more ATP250 or challenger results, and get a nearer situation to other players, although not similar.

But this rule looks very awkward to me, especially how will they do when in the end of the year, Schuettler or others are not in the top-30 anymore : will they change the way they count his ATP points at once ?

For players who newly get into top-30, it's always possible to add new ATP500 results little by little during the year, as they did this year, but what about players who go out of the top-30 ? Will they keep their zero-pointers or low results in ATP500 tournaments in their rankings for very long ?

balzac1970
08-05-2009, 05:50 PM
thank you. I don´t see the reason for that rule. it´s really unfair.

Sunset of Age
08-05-2009, 05:56 PM
But this rule looks very awkward to me, especially how will they do when in the end of the year, Schuettler or others are not in the top-30 anymore : will they change the way they count his ATP points at once ?

For players who newly get into top-30, it's always possible to add new ATP500 results little by little during the year, as they did this year, but what about players who go out of the top-30 ? Will they keep their zero-pointers or low results in ATP500 tournaments in their rankings for very long ?

Thanks duong for your elaborative explanation on... well, a subject pretty much appearing to be impossible to explain, to me at least! :lol:
I really wonder if the ATP have thoroughly thought through the consequences of this new ranking system. Somehow I doubt it. :scratch:

thedesertsun
08-07-2009, 01:14 PM
Hey.. is it possible to update this one?

Greetz

duong
08-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Hey.. is it possible to update this one?

Greetz

look at post 187, previous page

thedesertsun
08-07-2009, 02:24 PM
Yeah, thank you duong.. didn't notice that.. ! :)

Hasi is 12th right now with this D.C.-QF.. come on :eek:

JMG
08-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Nice to see Petzschner finally, he should be around 80 now. I hope he can hold it at least or even get close to the top 50 at the end of the year. :)

Argenteniso
08-15-2009, 04:27 AM
Roddick is No 4 in the race now, ahead of Nole!! Nice season for Andy

jcempire
08-15-2009, 11:01 PM
after miss two GS and 4 months. Nadal still has best result on ATP race. unbelievable. how good he is

angry1
08-15-2009, 11:05 PM
after miss two GS and 4 months. Nadal still has best result on ATP race. unbelievable. how good he is

He's so good he even collects ranking points in GS he misses.:)

Noleta
08-16-2009, 12:02 AM
Roddick is No 4 in the race now, ahead of Nole!! Nice season for Andy

Stefanki:yeah:Andy:yeah:

after miss two GS and 4 months. Nadal still has best result on ATP race. unbelievable. how good he is

:worship:

spencercarlos
08-16-2009, 03:27 AM
after miss two GS and 4 months. Nadal still has best result on ATP race. unbelievable. how good he is
Nadal did not lose 2 grand slams this year. He only missed Wimbledon this year.
And Nadal did not lose 4 months of competition, he actually lost to Soderling on May 31 came back on 11 August, thats not even 3 months.
And for a fact Federer, Murray and Dojkovic also had a month off the tour since Wimbledon.

Get your facts stragiht.

victory1
08-16-2009, 06:24 AM
Nadal did not lose 2 grand slams this year. He only missed Wimbledon this year.
And Nadal did not lose 4 months of competition, he actually lost to Soderling on May 31 came back on 11 August, thats not even 3 months.
And for a fact Federer, Murray and Dojkovic also had a month off the tour since Wimbledon.

Get your facts stragiht.

Yes and doing that entire time the remaining top 3 only played 2 more tournaments (a grass warm-up and Wimbledon) then Nadal, Fed only 1 (Wimbledon).;)

Sapeod
08-17-2009, 10:45 AM
Murray is quite a bit ahead of Roddick now. Come on Andy. Win Cincinnati now :yeah:

mashamaniac
08-17-2009, 12:32 PM
WOW!!! there's yet a big gap between rafa and muzza while nadal is doing nothing for about 4 months now...

n8
08-20-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't ever remember being so excited about the US Open. Nadal back from injury, Murray looking very dangerous, del Potro now has more slam experience, Roddick playing the best he has in years, and of course five-time defending champion Federer.

If Federer doesn't win the US Open this year the race for the year-end number one should be awesome.

victory1
08-20-2009, 07:26 PM
WOW!!! there's yet a big gap between rafa and muzza while nadal is doing nothing for about 4 months now...

Please!:rolleyes: Andy only played 2 tournaments during nadal absence and only played 1 month more then Nadal!:wavey: Nadal fans sure know how to exaggerates!

n8
08-22-2009, 08:18 AM
I'm glad Djokovic's performance at Cincy will put him back infront of Roddick. Although Roddick has beaten Djokovic 3/3 times this year, I still think that Djokovic deserves to be in the top 4.

sheva07
08-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Thiemo in Top 100! But he is not from the States :).

n8
08-24-2009, 10:20 AM
If Federer wins the US Open he essentially clinches the year-end number one (as he should with 3 grand slams). He'll have a minimum of a 2000 point lead if he wins.

amirbachar
08-24-2009, 11:38 PM
Hi duong,
I have a good suggestion:
could you please color top30 players with some color? I think it could give a nice view of the new system and its consequences.

duong
08-24-2009, 11:45 PM
Hi duong,
I have a good suggestion:
could you please color top30 players with some color? I think it could give a nice view of the new system and its consequences.

if you want : it would mostly give a view of how stable the top-30 is and who might go out of that list, I guess, it wouldn't say for instance how many points Schuettler would have if he had not been a top-30 in the end of last year :shrug: , but well if you want, that's not complicated :)

amirbachar
08-24-2009, 11:54 PM
if you want : it would mostly give a view of how stable the top-30 is and who might go out of that list, I guess, it wouldn't say for instance how many points Schuettler would have if he had not been a top-30 in the end of last year :shrug: , but well if you want, that's not complicated :)

Thanks a lot :)

Argenteniso
08-25-2009, 10:53 PM
Wow, 5 points only for winning in the first round in New Haven. Totally unfair!! Winning a first round in the worst challenger gives the same

jcempire
08-25-2009, 11:01 PM
Anyone update the ATP Race???

Audacity
08-26-2009, 06:50 AM
Luczak's doing great! :)

duong
08-26-2009, 10:10 AM
Anyone update the ATP Race???

Post 214 just above

duong
08-26-2009, 10:15 AM
Wow, 5 points only for winning in the first round in New Haven. Totally unfair!! Winning a first round in the worst challenger gives the same

it's 10 points (it's what they did for the Queens which was exactly the same case even if, yes, they had written 5 points in their rules :rolleyes: )

Yipee2009
09-07-2009, 10:44 AM
I will update the Race after each round until the end of the US Open in the previous post


Thanks a lot for the work.

born_on_clay
09-09-2009, 10:11 AM
Thanks duong
so Rafa is almost guaranteed year-end no.2, no ?
Vamos !

LocoPorElTenis
09-10-2009, 11:57 PM
it's gonna be a dogfight for the last two spots to London

FedFan_2007
09-12-2009, 07:25 AM
It's not been updated through Cincy.

decrepitude
09-12-2009, 11:01 AM
See post #225 - update to R16 of the USO. The first post is not being updated regularly.

Duong - please nip in quickly and start this thread next year!

n8
09-12-2009, 01:44 PM
Up until US Open Semis

Federer 9540*
Nadal 8325* (7965 if he loses to Gonzalez)
Murray 6040
Djokovic 5740*
Del Potro 4705*
Roddick 4400

Add 480 for making final, 1280 for winning title.

:sport: I'm glad Del Potro is in the top 5 again where he clearly belongs.

LocoPorElTenis
09-14-2009, 05:33 PM
Del Potro has a big chance of ending the year as #3 as he's playing better than Djokovic. Last year he didn't do too great in the indoor season and the TMC, but of course he's a totally different player this year.

In the very unlikely case he beats Fed tonight, he'll be actually close to Murray (about 200 points behind).

LocoPorElTenis
09-15-2009, 01:54 AM
Del Potro will end the year ranked #3

Havok
09-15-2009, 05:09 AM
Del Potro will likely end the year #4; I can see him hitting a small rut while Murray will want to fight and keep his position of #3 to console himself from a shit GS year. Had Roddick not been a pussy at the USO, we would have likely seen Djokovic slip out of the top 5 but his position seems safe because Andy usually doesn't care for the indoors.:o

Verdasco quietly separating himself as the best of the "rest".

born_on_clay
09-15-2009, 10:03 AM
wow
Del Potro so close now to Murray
Vamos Pony !

Labamba
09-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Should be a tight three-horse race for the year-end #3 spot...

and five guys (who all like it indoors) still battling for the last two spots to London

LocoPorElTenis
09-15-2009, 01:48 PM
Del Potro didn't do so well indoors or at the TMC last year but then again he's on a different level now. It matters who ends #3/#4 for seedings at the AO.

Sunset of Age
09-15-2009, 02:29 PM
Del Potro didn't do so well indoors or at the TMC last year but then again he's on a different level now. It matters who ends #3/#4 for seedings at the AO.

He has a very good chance to get to the #3 position, as Murray has quite a heap to defend. Would be well deserved - all three guys who managed to win a GS title this year at #1, #2 and #3. :yeah:

FiBeR
09-15-2009, 02:41 PM
:woohoo:

ive been looking for the gap among the mighty 4 and del po since roland garros :) it has become doable :D Go delpo!! by ending 3rd, he could have a real chance next year to be competitive for the race to n1

duong
09-15-2009, 03:09 PM
He has a very good chance to get to the #3 position, as Murray has quite a heap to defend.

a few words to remind everybody that "points to defend" have no relationship at all with the Race :

that's the advantage of the Race, you don't have to take care at all about "points to defend",

you just add the points after every tournament
... and you get the rankings in the end of the year,

never having to think about "points to defend" ("points to defend" are only interesting for the intermediate rankings between now and the end of the year, not for the rankings in the end of the year)

So far, Murray, Del Potro and Djokovic are quite near : the one from them who gets the best results by the end of the year will be number 3 (or maybe better, if Nadal has a bad end of the year).

Sunset of Age
09-15-2009, 03:11 PM
a few words to remind everybody that "points to defend" have no relationship at all with the Race :

that's the advantage of the Race, you don't have to take care at all about points to defend.

So far, Murray, Del Potro and Djokovic are quite near : the one from them who gets the best results by the end of the year will be number 3 (or maybe better, if for instance Nadal doesn't have a very good end of the year).

Yep, you're right. I stand corrected. :o

FiBeR
09-15-2009, 03:18 PM
points to defend do have some weight here.. since it adds pressure to the players.

It's never easy holding to your race place and having tons of points to defend ahead. It adds a lot of pressure and takes some pressure off your chest.

duong
09-15-2009, 03:41 PM
points to defend do have some weight here.. since it adds pressure to the players.

It's never easy holding to your race place and having tons of points to defend ahead. It adds a lot of pressure and takes some pressure off your chest.

I know people are used to talking a lot about that on forums :rolleyes: , but I don't agree at all that it's a concern here.

Yes there's such pressure for a player who may lose his place in the main draws and so on : in that case, players feel a real pressure, an economical one,

... but here, I don't think it's important.

More than that : let's imagine that there's such "pressure",
what's the result of it ?

The player plays worse or better ?

My personal impression about it in the past is that very often players manage to succeed again in a tournament where they had had success before.

Oh not always the same result like win the tournament ... but at least they do quite well, better than you would expect from the level or form they had in previous months.

Then no I don't think it's negative : I rather think that if it has an implication, it's rather a positive one.

Anyway the points are lost, you can't do anything to get them back, you can only do your best.

born_on_clay
09-15-2009, 05:20 PM
He has a very good chance to get to the #3 position, as Murray has quite a heap to defend. Would be well deserved - all three guys who managed to win a GS title this year at #1, #2 and #3. :yeah:

Great post
I hope it'll happen too :)

FiBeR
09-15-2009, 08:40 PM
I know people are used to talking a lot about that on forums :rolleyes: , but I don't agree at all that it's a concern here.

Yes there's such pressure for a player who may lose his place in the main draws and so on : in that case, players feel a real pressure, an economical one,

... but here, I don't think it's important.

More than that : let's imagine that there's such "pressure",
what's the result of it ?

The player plays worse or better ?

My personal impression about it in the past is that very often players manage to succeed again in a tournament where they had had success before.

Oh not always the same result like win the tournament ... but at least they do quite well, better than you would expect from the level or form they had in previous months.

Then no I don't think it's negative : I rather think that if it has an implication, it's rather a positive one.

Anyway the points are lost, you can't do anything to get them back, you can only do your best.


its BS when players say they dont look ahead in their GS draw :p like..they check where is federer, nadal..etc, in the draw. you always have a bit of a sense who you might face ahead.. even though not a defining thing.

Same with points. If you know you have a title to defend and without that title you ll drop 2 or 1 spot on the ranks (cos they adjust to the race), it is a kind of pressure, specially when you have a lot of other players breathing at your neck. you re kind of forced to do well and having the "history" on your back, you re expected to go out and hold on to the title, which turns into pressure.

good or bad pressure, but pressure. everyone takes defending champ as a favourite in a tourney. if not, read up MTF.. delpo was a mickey mouse player and now he is the next best thing :rolleyes:.. dont u think players are awared of that? even on the slightest way? that adds an ingredient.

of course, it is not defining.. but you know, adds a special touch to the tournament.. :p at least that's what i think it happens

duong
09-20-2009, 09:32 PM
Here's the updated Race including Challengers and Futures on the 21st of september after the Davis Cup and all the challengers played last week

For those who don't believe in the interest of including challengers, please note that both Söderling and Wawrinka got one of their best "other results" in challengers (115 points for Söderling in Sunrise, 100 points for Wawrinka in Lugano) and that these result may count for their ranking after Bercy and then for a qualifying for the Masters Cup.


Only 2 of these players got some of his points in futures (Paolo Lorenzi and Michael Russell).

In dark between brackets : the improvement since the beginning of the US Open.

In blue the players who were in the top-30 after the Masters Cup last year ... and then cannot count more than 2 ATP250/challenger results (unless they are not allowed to enter an MS1000 : in that case they can count one more ATP250/challenger result)

ATP_rk means the ATP ranking.

The ATP rankings are updated for the top-100 players.

Methodological notes :

- I counted the Davis Cup as one ATP500 tournament, assuming that nearly all (except Federer) top-30 players in the end of 2008 will at least play 4 ATP500 tournaments this year, and then will be able to count Davis Cup as an ATP500 tournament
in the end of the year according to the new rules

- many of these players have already got more results this year than the ATP allows them : that's why some of their results are not included.

- for players who were in the top-30 in the end of 2008 (they are in blue in the table), only 2 ATP250 or challenger tournaments are counted, according to the new ranking rules. Especially several of them have already won two ATP250 tournaments and then cannot win anymore point in ATP250 tournaments this season (Murray, Tsonga, Cilic, Robredo, Stepanek).

1 Federer (SUI) 9 855 (ATP_rk : 1)
2 Nadal (ESP) 8 145 (ATP_rk : 2)
3 Murray (GBR) 6 040 (ATP_rk : 3)
4 Del Potro (ARG) 5 805 (ATP_rk : 5)
5 Djokovic (SRB) 5 560 (ATP_rk : 4)
6 Roddick (USA) 4 400 (ATP_rk : 6)
7 Verdasco (ESP) 2 970 (ATP_rk : 9)
8 F Gonzalez (CHI) 2 555 (ATP_rk : 12)
9 Söderling (SWE) 2 485 (ATP_rk : 11)
10 Davydenko (RUS) 2 245 (ATP_rk : 8)
11 Tsonga (FRA) 2 105 (ATP_rk : 7)
12 Stepanek (CZE) 1 915 (+ 2) (ATP_rk : 17)
13 Robredo (ESP) 1 905 (ATP_rk : 18)
14 Cilic (CRO) 1 895 (ATP_rk : 15)
15 Haas (GER) 1 780 (ATP_rk : 20)
16 Ferrer (ESP) 1 750 (ATP_rk : 19)
17 Simon (FRA) 1 685 (ATP_rk : 10)
18 Ferrero (ESP) 1 520 (+ 1) (ATP_rk : 21)
19 Monfils (FRA) 1 475 (ATP_rk : 13)
20 Berdych (CZE) 1 440 (+ 2) (ATP_rk : 16)
21 Wawrinka (SUI) 1 400 (ATP_rk : 22)
22 Hewitt (AUS) 1 375 (ATP_rk : 26)
23 Querrey (USA) 1 320 (ATP_rk : 25)
24 Almagro (ESP) 1 215 (ATP_rk : 30)
25 Kohlschreiber (GER) 1 165 (ATP_rk : 23)
26 Chardy (FRA) 1 082 (ATP_rk : 33)
27 Mathieu (FRA) 990 (ATP_rk : 27)
28 Monaco (ARG) 985 (ATP_rk : 37)
29 Troicki (SRB) 980 (ATP_rk : 32)
30 Karlovic (CRO) 960 (ATP_rk : 31)
31 Isner (USA) 932 (ATP_rk : 41)
32 Andreev (RUS) 930 (ATP_rk : 43)
33 Becker (GER) 918 (ATP_rk : 42)
34 Sela (ISR) 917 (ATP_rk : 29)
35 Hanescu (ROU) 885 (ATP_rk : 28)
36 Ljubicic (CRO) 870 (ATP_rk : 46)
37 A Beck (GER) 857 (ATP_rk : 44)
38 Youzhny (RUS) 855 (ATP_rk : 51)
39 Melzer (AUT) 850 (ATP_rk : 39)
40 Acasuso (ARG) 850 (ATP_rk : 50)
41 Garcia-Lopez (ESP) 829 (ATP_rk : 54)
42 Seppi (ITA) 810 (ATP_rk : 56)
43 Blake (USA) 800 (ATP_rk : 24)
44 Benneteau (FRA) 799 (ATP_rk : 36)
45 Montanes (ESP) 795 (ATP_rk : 53)
46 Bellucci (BRA) 751 (ATP_rk : 64)
47 Fish (USA) 745 (ATP_rk : 52)
48 Cuevas (URU) 695 (ATP_rk : 59)
49 Zeballos (ARG) 694 (+ 3) (ATP_rk : 58)
50 Fognini (ITA) 675 (ATP_rk : 87)
51 Gicquel (FRA) 675 (ATP_rk : 69)
52 Nalbandian (ARG) 665 (ATP_rk : 14)
53 Tipsarevic (SRB) 635 (ATP_rk : 55)
54 Gasquet (FRA) 615 (ATP_rk : 47)
55 Korolev (RUS) 609 (+ 21) (ATP_rk : 73)
56 Starace (ITA) 607 (ATP_rk : 91)
57 F Mayer (GER) 604 (ATP_rk : 97)
58 Santoro (FRA) 598 (ATP_rk : 40)
59 Greul (GER) 590 (+ 13) (ATP_rk : 68)
60 Hernandez (ESP) 580 (+ 5) (ATP_rk : 76)
61 M Gonzalez (ARG) 576 (ATP_rk : 67)
62 Daniel (BRA) 573 (ATP_rk : 71)
63 O Rochus (BEL) 567 (ATP_rk : 83)
64 Baghdatis (CYP) 565 (ATP_rk : 103)
65 Serra (FRA) 565 (+ 2) (ATP_rk : 86)
66 Tursunov (RUS) 565 (ATP_rk : 38)
67 Koellerer (AUT) 562 (ATP_rk : 57)
68 Zverev (GER) 560 (ATP_rk : 49)
69 Ancic (CRO) 547 (ATP_rk : 77)
70 L Mayer (ARG) 542 (ATP_rk : 65)
71 Luczak (AUS) 540 (ATP_rk : 70)
72 Petzschner (GER) 530 (ATP_rk : 35)
73 Bolelli (ITA) 520 (ATP_rk : 63)
74 F Gil (POR) 516 (ATP_rk : 102)
75 C Rochus (BEL) 508 (+ 2) (ATP_rk : 88)
76 Arguello (ARG) 505 (ATP_rk : 48)
77 Vliegen (BEL) 505 (ATP_rk : 81)
78 R Ram (USA) 494 (ATP_rk : 105)
79 Chela (ARG) 488 (+ 3) (ATP_rk : 111)
80 De Bakker (NED) 488 (ATP_rk : 119)
81 M Granollers (ESP) 485 (ATP_rk : 79)
82 Gimeno-Traver (ESP) 478 (New) (ATP_rk : 108)
83 F Lopez (ESP) 475 (ATP_rk : 34)
84 Gabashvili (RUS) 469 (ATP_rk : 80)
85 Odesnik (USA) 468 (+ 9) (ATP_rk : 94)
86 Dent (USA) 456 (New) (ATP_rk : 122)
87 Kiefer (GER) 455 (ATP_rk : 109)
88 Lorenzi (ITA) 454 (ATP_rk : 126)
89 Hajek (CZE) 452 (ATP_rk : 120)
90 Safin (RUS) 450 (ATP_rk : 60)
91 Hernych (CZE) 445 (ATP_rk : 62)
92 Schuettler (GER) 440 (ATP_rk : 93)
93 Ginepri (USA) 430 (ATP_rk : 75)
94 Chiudinelli (SUI) 427 (ATP_rk : 117)
95 Crivoi (ROU) 425 (ATP_rk : 98)
96 Russell (USA) 425 (ATP_rk : 99)
97 Falla (COL) 421 (New) (ATP_rk : 113)
98 Lu Yen Hsun (TPE) 416 (ATP_rk : 74)
99 Gulbis (LAT) 414 (ATP_rk : 101)
100 Llodra (FRA) 412 (ATP_rk : 134)

duong
09-25-2009, 10:12 PM
There's a new thread about the Race :

New Race thread (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=151845)

please visit it for updates.

For the mods : I hope the mods will accept to make this new one sticky (and keep the one here in archives on GM, sticky or not), as it would be more clear like that.