Who will back up Murray in Davis Cup (Against Poland) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who will back up Murray in Davis Cup (Against Poland)

Sapeod
02-07-2009, 08:17 PM
I know I should have put this in the Davis Cup section, but I really want to hear your thoughts. Britain is going against Ukraine in Davis Cup in March and they are yet to have a backing up player for Andy. They are doing play-offs with six players and the one that does the best gets to do the other singles rubber.

The players are: Josh Goodall, James Ward, Alex Slabinsky, Jamie Baker, Dan Evans and Colin Fleming.

I think Goodall will get it, but Ward is a close second.
Who do you think should get the second spot or who do you think WILL get the second spot?

Ivanatis
02-07-2009, 08:20 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41371000/jpg/_41371966_murray_davis_ap.jpg

Christoph123
02-07-2009, 08:22 PM
I think Dan Evans should be given a shot, he's young and could do with some DC experience.

Certinfy
02-07-2009, 08:27 PM
I think Dan Evans should be given a shot, he's young and could do with some DC experience.Agreed! John even said he wanted to let other young players have a shot.

MurrayFan1
02-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Chris Eaton did well at Wimbledon, he is young and we may as well use DC to get his confidence and ability up. It is not as if our singles are brimming with quality haha.

reggie1
02-07-2009, 10:06 PM
I saw the title of this thread and honestly thought "I have absolutely no idea!" It's such a shame for all of us :sad: Sorry, I'm being negative.

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 10:26 PM
Boggo.

TMJordan
02-07-2009, 10:28 PM
Rusedski wanted to play but they didn't want them. Now they will suffer the pain of a first round loss.

fast_clay
02-07-2009, 10:28 PM
it should be fleming... but... boggo for sure...

ImmzB
02-07-2009, 10:29 PM
Chris Eaton

Sapeod
02-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Chris Eaton did well at Wimbledon, he is young and we may as well use DC to get his confidence and ability up. It is not as if our singles are brimming with quality haha.

The Davis Cup is being held on hard court, and Eaton isn't very good at all on hard court. Just look at his playing activity.
If it was on grass, they wouldn't hesitate to pick him. Even though they did pick Boggo last time :o

nestingus
02-08-2009, 01:51 AM
I think Lloyd has given up on Boggo after his dismal performance against Peya. He isn't in good form either. I reckon Goodall should and will get it. Evans is nowhere near the standard required yet, Eaton was a one hit wonder and Slabinsky is hardly setting the world on fire.

I can't really see Colin Fleming winning this tournie either.

Thanos
02-08-2009, 03:58 AM
laura robson, she more mentally tough than any of those above listed.

jmf07
02-08-2009, 06:20 AM
IMO Goodall but no player is really in outstanding form a the moment.

scarecrows
02-08-2009, 07:57 AM
marray
he did beat Goodall this week

gaynor
02-08-2009, 08:06 AM
Marray and Eaton aren't in the play-off :rolleyes: Not sure why, when it would make it a round 8 and it could be straight knock-out, but don't expect JL to think about these things.

I think both Goodall and Evans should get in the team, with Hutchins instead of J.Murray as the doubles specialist. Unfortunately I don't think Evo will do very well because it's best of 5 sets and he's never played for that long before. I don't know who will win it though, just hope for some good tennis on any days I manage to go.

Horatio Caine
02-08-2009, 08:46 AM
For years I have been a critic of the way we go about planning Davis Cup ties (squad, venue, surface etc), but, as concerns this particular one, I think Lloyd has hit the nail on the head.

On the one hand, I'm not 100% comfortable with Boggo being dismissed...he is still our 2nd best player, afterall. :shrug: However, you only need to look at some of the very best pros (e.g. Melzer), and you can see that some players simply aren't cut out for this competition...so, in some ways, it isn't such a bad idea to leave Boggo out of contention.

Anyway, I was pleased to read that Lloydy only wants to name one doubles player...our doubles credentials (and the rankings DO LIE ---> Jamie Murray) simply aren't strong enough to warrant a 50% slice of our squad. And I do like his decision to hold a play-off for the remaining two singles places...not only is it an exciting opportunity for some of our younger, lower-ranked players, but also it is quite exciting for we, the viewing public...an opportunity to potentially see a new player thrown into live singles action (and given the nature of our opposition, we should look forward to a fairly competitive match).

However, my concern with the play-off itself is that I'm not convinced that Lloydy has named these players with the doubles rubber in mind. I'd rather we leave Andy Murray out of doubles (for starters, I'd consider him more of a liability in this respect), so we need someone to partner either Jamie or Hutchins. Out of the 6 named, Goodall is probably the only player that could really fit the bill...and he isn't even "guaranteed" a place in the squad. :shrug:

Rather, I think Lloydy should be holding two play-off competitions (each with 4 players) - one for each singles place. Have one play-off competition more orientated to the doubles rubber (but, importantly, making sure that EACH player in contention could be a very USEFUL singles stand-in). So, we might choose Goodall (good serve, solid volley), Eaton (good serve-volleyer), Marray (serve-volleyer) and one other for this group. Have the other play-off orientated more to Andy Murray's back-up singles player. So, for this one, perhaps we'd name Ward, Slabinsky, Baker and Dan Evans. :shrug:

By doing this, we'd avoid the potential (albeit unlikely) pitfall of, say, Baker and Evans winning the current 6-man play-off...neither of whom, imo, would suit action on Saturday. :shrug:

PiggyGotRoasted
02-08-2009, 10:35 AM
Should play ross hutchings in the singles with andy murray, then jamie murray/goodall in the doubles i think

HattonWBA
02-08-2009, 05:28 PM
there all fucking shit, but ill go with Eaton

Andi-M
02-08-2009, 05:37 PM
All crap Muzza may as well not bother.
Even Jay Muzza has forgotten how to play doubles recently.

Llyody may as well do it himself. Same result either way.

nestingus
02-08-2009, 05:43 PM
When is this tournament btw? I can't see a date on BBC Sport or anything like that. Would quite like to watch it as well.

Or Levy
02-08-2009, 05:50 PM
How can a the 4# player in the world, with a serve and net game like A.M has be a doubles liability on an already weak, inexperienced team?

gaynor
02-08-2009, 05:54 PM
When is this tournament btw? I can't see a date on BBC Sport or anything like that. Would quite like to watch it as well.

It's the week before the DC at the NTC in Roehampton.

nestingus
02-08-2009, 07:00 PM
It's the week before the DC at the NTC in Roehampton.

cheers mate

shotgun
02-08-2009, 07:21 PM
Will Murray actually play this tie? He didn't seem very enthusiastic about taking part on future DC ties after the loss vs. Austria.

nestingus
02-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Will Murray actually play this tie? He didn't seem very enthusiastic about taking part on future DC ties after the loss vs. Austria.

Yeah he'll play alright. The media backlash when he pulled out against Argentina was immense - the main rubber would have been Muzz v Fat Dave and it could have made it much closer.

He cited the fact that he was moving from hard courts to clay too quickly as the reason for not playing (something about the training of muscle groups needed for the switch to clay), and his knee being at risk etc etc... Nobody really bought it.

He won't pull out this time

NinaNina19
02-08-2009, 09:58 PM
Is it a home tie? I think he said he wouldn't play.

Corey Feldman
02-08-2009, 10:18 PM
save energy Andy, dont play this crap

Sapeod
02-08-2009, 10:25 PM
Is it a home tie? I think he said he wouldn't play.

Murray is playing. The tie is in Glasgow, on hardcourt.

GlennMirnyi
02-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Who cares about Murray, we all know Boggo is the number one.

adee-gee
02-09-2009, 12:07 AM
However, my concern with the play-off itself is that I'm not convinced that Lloydy has named these players with the doubles rubber in mind. I'd rather we leave Andy Murray out of doubles (for starters, I'd consider him more of a liability in this respect), so we need someone to partner either Jamie or Hutchins. Out of the 6 named, Goodall is probably the only player that could really fit the bill...and he isn't even "guaranteed" a place in the squad. :shrug:
Are you serious? A Muzza is still the best doubles player we've got, our only chance is for him to win 3 points for us. I'd play the 2 Muzza's together in doubles, Jamie has been playing like utter shite but Hutchins isn't great, and I think the Muzza's would raise their game together on the DC stage.

Tankman
02-09-2009, 12:11 AM
Are you serious? A Muzza is still the best doubles player we've got, our only chance is for him to win 3 points for us. I'd play the 2 Muzza's together in doubles, Jamie has been playing like utter shite but Hutchins isn't great, and I think the Muzza's would raise their game together on the DC stage.

yeah

you blokes don't have that many options, so you should really pick the best you can :p

also Adam, revive your chat thread already :ras:

it's in danger of being overtaken by the Nathii and Gu show :p

Horatio Caine
02-09-2009, 10:36 AM
Are you serious? A Muzza is still the best doubles player we've got, our only chance is for him to win 3 points for us. I'd play the 2 Muzza's together in doubles, Jamie has been playing like utter shite but Hutchins isn't great, and I think the Muzza's would raise their game together on the DC stage.

Yeah, I didn't look at it from this angle...you are right in saying that Andy is, nevertheless, our best hope for doubles. And I guess the problem we have is that we can't rely on winning 3 singles...so we do very much have to rely on him.

But, at any rate, I still stand by my comments on his doubles ability...he and either his brother, or Hutchins, could probably beat an average pairing (Ukraine tie is a good place to start), but against the better pairings they are always going to struggle.

In response to your final bit...CAN Jamie Murray raise his game for Davis Cup? :shrug: His serving is always temperamental, and his returns average at best.

Horatio Caine
02-09-2009, 10:39 AM
How can a the 4# player in the world, with a serve and net game like A.M has be a doubles liability on an already weak, inexperienced team?

He may be one of the world's best singles players, but that doesn't automatically make him a top doubles player.

He SHOULD be a solid partner for doubles (greater returner, good volley etc) but there is something lacking...maybe offers too many 2nd serves off which opposition can attack? Probably just the fact that his partner is too weak (he often plays with Brits)...

Anyway, as I corrected myself a few moments ago...no doubt he is our BEST prospect for Saturday, but, as others will probably agree, I'm not sure that his help would be ENOUGH for us to win future doubles rubbers against the better opposition (but excluding the very best).

raph72
02-09-2009, 02:31 PM
I think, just to show to the singles players that they are not in good shape, if i was Lloyd, i would pick Ross Hutchins. He hasn't play singles since long time but he passed the qualif in Johannesburg and plya well against a confirm player like Vliegen (7/6, 7/5). And it was on hard court. So i think he must be a good joker for Great Britain agaisnt average ukrainian player

miura
02-09-2009, 03:07 PM
Jimmy Carr

Raquel
02-09-2009, 06:06 PM
Are you serious? A Muzza is still the best doubles player we've got, our only chance is for him to win 3 points for us. I'd play the 2 Muzza's together in doubles, Jamie has been playing like utter shite but Hutchins isn't great, and I think the Muzza's would raise their game together on the DC stage.Yeah I agree, I would think Andy and Jamie together would be the best hope. I hope Jamie Baker makes the team though. I'm sure Bogdanovic was raging at being dropped but at least John Lloyd is trying something new and making players fight to be on the team instead of being automatic picks despite poor records.

Horatio Caine
02-09-2009, 06:25 PM
I think, just to show to the singles players that they are not in good shape, if i was Lloyd, i would pick Ross Hutchins. He hasn't play singles since long time but he passed the qualif in Johannesburg and plya well against a confirm player like Vliegen (7/6, 7/5). And it was on hard court. So i think he must be a good joker for Great Britain agaisnt average ukrainian player

No way man. :lol:


Well, today Andy Murray and Auckland fell in straight sets to Knowle & Ram...one of the "better opposition" pairings I was talking about in my more recent post on this topic.

Yves.
02-09-2009, 06:39 PM
What about Bogdanovic?

Yves.
02-09-2009, 06:39 PM
Or Eaton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sapeod
07-31-2009, 12:50 AM
Bump :rocker2:

Now that they have a tie in Poland, who do you think thney should choose. Chosing Goodall proved to be a disaster :tape: I think Ward or Evans.

GlennMirnyi
07-31-2009, 01:01 AM
Check my avatar.

GrosjeantheGreat
07-31-2009, 01:48 AM
Amen.

Only one man iz big enough for dizz herculean task. Only one man can face adversity with ze sheer bravery of Evel Knevel and ze steel leadership of Winston Churchill. Only one man in modern tennise has ze raw guts and stiff upper lip of a thousand Alexander the Greats. Only one man has a stronger, fiercer, beating heart of a million Amazonian lions. Only one man...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/23/article-0-01B7A27B00000578-547_468x334.jpg
BOGGO!

HattonWBA
07-31-2009, 07:02 AM
Murray may not play the tie depending on how deep he goes at the US Open, because this tie starts the week straight after the US Open final. Although if he does i say give Dan Evans a shot based on his youth and the fact that he may be a future Davis Cup player, therefore he can gain confidence and experience.

Andre♥
07-31-2009, 07:51 AM
I would say Great Britain is kinda screwed, even if Murray plays.

With Poland having a clear upperhand on doubles, GB's #2 will have to beat either Kubot or Janowicz, who are both good servers and should be comfortable on both grass or indoors...

EDIT: Great Britain's #2 is yet to win a live rubber since Henman was GB's #2 and defeated Karanusic! :lol: :help:

EDIT2: Well, if GB loses, I don't think they can get lower than Group II! Unless they play Portugal, which will make GB go to play in Portugal on clay against Gil and Machado! :lol:

fast_clay
07-31-2009, 08:51 AM
GB have found a team in Colin Fleming and Ken Skupski that have genuine Top 40 dubs potential... I would say that this Scouse/Scot team could well dominate the DC dubs position for the best part of a decade should they hold the current course they are on... one of the brit stories that actually take full advantage of their WC's this brit summer ie, def Bryan Bros...

this is the support that Murray needs to at least give half a sh!t about showing up each DC tie.. simply some world class support in some shape...

Horatio Caine
07-31-2009, 12:00 PM
GB have found a team in Colin Fleming and Ken Skupski that have genuine Top 40 dubs potential... I would say that this Scouse/Scot team could well dominate the DC dubs position for the best part of a decade should they hold the current course they are on... one of the brit stories that actually take full advantage of their WC's this brit summer ie, def Bryan Bros...

this is the support that Murray needs to at least give half a sh!t about showing up each DC tie.. simply some world class support in some shape...

The problem is that it is generally too big a gamble for us to name two doubles 'specialists' who wouldn't be expected to do much in a potential emergency singles rubber. Give them another year and see if they can back up their results and keep their rankings heading upwards. We've already seen that Jamie Murray and Hutchins don't have the ability to stay with the better teams.

Horatio Caine
07-31-2009, 12:10 PM
To answer the thread question...we have the same old problem. Whomever we name will face an uphill battle to win a live singles rubber at this level (dropping to Group II wouldn't be a bad thing imo). :help:

Which is why, despite all the criticism directed at him, Bogdanovic remains our best player to back up Murray. The current rankings may list him as Brit #4 (?), but on performances this year he has been consistently better than the rest of the Brits...and the scary thing is that he is well short of the level he was playing at only a few years ago imo.

Ward really shouldn't be considered unless we lay a slow court of some sort...he is a poor returner, and needs the ball to 'check' so he can wind up for each shot.

Unless he proves otherwise, Goodall will always be a disappointment in the bigger matches imo. He is dangerous when his serve and ground strokes are on, but that doesn't happen too often. Otherwise, he is a pretty average player without a particularly good return, and no Plan B.

I'm still not totally convinced by Evans...really didn't follow up that Jersey challenger win until he showed some positive signs in a US challenger last week. Problem for him is that he isn't physically imposing, so his all-round game will need a hell of a lot of fine-tuning. However, could be beneficial for him to be seriously considered for live singles...has nothing to lose. :shrug:


I think Lloydy needs to think a little harder about the choice of surface this time around. He made a dreadful error for the Ukraine tie in laying a court to Muzza's preference...I mean, come on! Muzza would have won on anything! I liked the idea behind the play-off tournament, but I don't think it should be repeated...we could end up with the same situation where a particular style of player wins through, but finds the court speed not to their liking. Eaton and Goodall needed a much faster court against Ukraine; Ward and Evans, maybe more suited at the time.

Hopefully Lloydy will go for 3 singles players and 1 doubles (choice between Hutchins, Fleming or Skupski...home boy!), with one of those singles players capable of standing in for doubles (Goodall probably most suited for this if you forget Muzza).


Overall, I'd probably have Boggo and Evans in mind for singles (one as reserve, should Muzza play), with Goodall put in for Saturday doubles with whichever doubles 'specialist.' In which case, I'd select a medium-fast indoor hard court, which surely Muzza wouldn't complain about either.


Btw, I wouldn't blame Boggo if he tells us where to shove it, if asked if he'd like to play. Some of the treatment he got was deserved, but it went beyond that at times.

My (long) 2 cents on this...always an interesting discussion. :)

fast_clay
07-31-2009, 03:52 PM
The problem is that it is generally too big a gamble for us to name two doubles 'specialists' who wouldn't be expected to do much in a potential emergency singles rubber. Give them another year and see if they can back up their results and keep their rankings heading upwards. We've already seen that Jamie Murray and Hutchins don't have the ability to stay with the better teams.

yeah i would agree... but, the difference between Team Flemski and Jamie&Hutchins is that the latter never gelled, could really trust each other enough to form a partnership on tour... whereas Fleming and Skupski are fully on the same page, at the same stage of life/career and game wise are what you would call the textbook dubs specialists... i think fielding Andy Murray with double specialist Hutchins is even a weaker play again cos sooner or later you need to start blooding a complete DC outfit - one that doesnt mean field Andy Murray on Saturdays...

like you say, time will tell... and i am not sure why i care so much because british people usually harbour an offensive odour...

Horatio Caine
07-31-2009, 06:00 PM
yeah i would agree... but, the difference between Team Flemski and Jamie&Hutchins is that the latter never gelled, could really trust each other enough to form a partnership on tour... whereas Fleming and Skupski are fully on the same page, at the same stage of life/career and game wise are what you would call the textbook dubs specialists... i think fielding Andy Murray with double specialist Hutchins is even a weaker play again cos sooner or later you need to start blooding a complete DC outfit - one that doesnt mean field Andy Murray on Saturdays...

Yes, I think that maybe Fleming/Skupski would be stronger than Jamie Murray or Hutchins pairing up with Andy...and obviously we wouldn't really want Andy to be playing all 3 rubbers anyway, as far as fitness goes.

But I simply don't think that this particular tie merits 'a complete DC outfit' given how strong the Poles are in doubles, at least on paper (although what have Fyr/Mat been up to recently?). I think it is too much of a risk to gamble on winning the doubles (which we'd struggle to do against many teams in World Group/Group I), without also having a back-up plan in case one of our singles players has to pull out. Instead, if we were to name 3 singles players (one, other than Andy, with doubles ability) and one doubles specialist, we have all bases covered. The possibility of a surprise doubles win (ties against Israel and the Netherlands spring to mind), and a chance in the #2 singles matches.

However, if we were facing Macedonia, instead, for example...then maybe that would be a better time to consider throwing a complete package together for such a tie.

I just believe that it is a case of waiting for the right opportunity, and the Poland tie isn't the right one imo. However, the next tie (be it in Group II), in 2010, might be ideal for us to do some experimenting.


like you say, time will tell... and i am not sure why i care so much because british people usually harbour an offensive odour...

Charming... :p

ballbasher101
07-31-2009, 09:45 PM
Lets give Jonathan Ross a chance, Henman offered to coach him so why not :lol:. Anyone but Boggo for me.

Sapeod
07-31-2009, 11:08 PM
All Britain need to do is win the doubles match and then we've won it. Murray is too good in singles for any Polish player to ever walk the Earth.

Andre♥
08-01-2009, 01:36 PM
All Britain need to do is win the doubles match and then we've won it. Murray is too good in singles for any Polish player to ever walk the Earth.

The problem is that Poland has one of the best doubles teams of the world! :lol: