Murray's comments on the new anti-doping regulations- similar reaction as Nadal [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Murray's comments on the new anti-doping regulations- similar reaction as Nadal

tennizen
02-06-2009, 01:33 PM
Mods, I had to open a new thread because the other one was closed:confused: Please feel free to move this if necessary.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/display.var.2487394.0.murray_rage_at_antidope_plan s.php


ANDY MURRAY is leading a revolt over a new anti-doping blitz to crack down on tennis cheats.

Under the new rules, athletes must report where they are for one hour of each day for the whole year so that investigators can call at any time, unannounced.

Anyone who misses three tests in an 18-month period could be suspended for up to two years.

But world No.4 Murray blasted the measures after an official wakened him at dawn in his London home to carry out a test - just hours after the jet-lagged star had flown 10,000 miles from Australia.
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The 21-year-old Scot raged: "I got a visit at 7am at my home right after I had travelled home from Australia. I woke up not knowing where I was and suffering badly from jet lag.

"It seemed ridiculous to me as I'd been tested just four days earlier, straight after the match I had lost in the Australian Open.

"The official who came to my home wanted me to produce identification to prove who I was.

"He insisted on watching me provide a sample, literally with my trousers round my ankles.

"And then he insisted that I wrote down my own address, even though he was at my private home at 7am."

Players jeered representatives of the International Tennis Federation (ITF) when the measures were announced at a stormy meeting in Melbourne last month.

One player walked out and others questioned ITF officials on the mandatory requirement of the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada).

World No.1 Rafael Nadal revealed that he has also had an early-morning visit from testers and said: "There is a unanimous voice in the locker-room. It is an intolerable hunt."

Herdwick
02-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Completely agree with both Andy and Rafa here - this really is a bit much. To have to report your precise location everyday for an entire year - ludicrous.

Johnny Groove
02-06-2009, 01:54 PM
I guess Murray is doping too, right? :o

Both of them are spot on about this

Bazooka
02-06-2009, 02:04 PM
This is not a sport plagued by doping, like others are. Puerta has been the major case, so no need to go beyond basic privacy rights with this. Nadal was tested about 20 times in 2008 I think.

miura
02-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Who's next? Canas? :)

Bazooka
02-06-2009, 02:12 PM
One question, are NBA players, or american footballers tested with this procedure too?

Jōris
02-06-2009, 02:28 PM
"He insisted on watching me provide a sample, literally with my trousers round my ankles."

Like that, safin rules no.1 converted from hater of the tartan twat to fanboi of the golden showering bagpipe tosser.

nestingus
02-06-2009, 02:36 PM
I was thinking how many people must have to be employed to uphold such stringent laws for every player on the ATP tour. Thats a hell of a lot of players.

How have they got time to test Nadal more than twice in a season, never mind 20!?

I agree, all a bit extreme if you ask me...

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 02:49 PM
Murray behaves like a twat... amazing.

Shut the hell up and pee in the freaking cup, it's no big deal.

Sapeod
02-06-2009, 02:51 PM
:o Too much. I guess this is what tennis is coming to:rolleyes: Let's hope not. :)

tangerine_dream
02-06-2009, 02:51 PM
Mods, I had to open a new thread because the other one was closed:confused: Please feel free to move this if necessary close at whim.

Fixed it for you. :)

tennizen
02-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Fixed it for you. :)

:lol: I am on my best behavior these days. Paying my respects to the mods:scared:;)

JolánGagó
02-06-2009, 03:09 PM
This nonsense must stop, they all should just agree on pulling a JMG and piss on the fucken inspector's face.

I can see some MTFers rushing to apply for the job.

Corey Feldman
02-06-2009, 03:14 PM
getting you're home intruded on and woken at 7am to take a pee, unreal how the doping investigators cant see how ridiculous they are behaving here.

finishingmove
02-06-2009, 03:36 PM
he was lucky not to get violated in his sleep.

this atp(itf) is good.

Tutu
02-06-2009, 04:08 PM
Omg. :help: :tape: That i tooooooo much. :crying2:

reggie1
02-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Anyone would think they were hunting for Hitler's Nazi's rather than tennis players who may have used a bit of dope! Really OTT in my opinion and the admin costs for all this must be horrendous.

PiggyGotRoasted
02-06-2009, 04:45 PM
Murray is a legend for standing up to this.. too right to stand up against rules like that who invade your privacy.

Nadal is a doper, because he is only standing up for this so he wont get caught doping or something.

SwiSha
02-06-2009, 04:54 PM
One question, are NBA players, or american footballers tested with this procedure too?

no

they ''handle'' doping themselves, which means they dont act at all. they only do the urin tests (i dont evene think they do that as well tbh) not any blood :lol:, if you get caught you get suspended for a couple of games thats it, American Sports are about entertainment and most of all business and Ca$h

i d say over 60 % of the NFL players are doped with steroids and over half of the NBA players smoke weed during the season, steroids are maybe an issue for the Power Forwards or Centers who need to muscle up quickly

GuiroNl
02-06-2009, 05:08 PM
Following MTF logic, this explains where Murray's muscles came from.

reggie1
02-06-2009, 05:31 PM
Following MTF logic, this explains where Murray's muscles came from.

They're not THAT big!

HattonWBA
02-06-2009, 05:35 PM
If what he says is true then this is pretty pathetic, what a joke

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 05:44 PM
MTF, where the hour a player is woken up is more important than doping control.

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Anyone would think they were hunting for Hitler's Nazi's rather than tennis players who may have used a bit of dope! Really OTT in my opinion and the admin costs for all this must be horrendous.

The costs are big -- there is a billion dollar doping industry specialized in this with large labs only doing this work. The management at these facilities have close associations with WADA. All the people get nice salaries for this work, it's their job. It is also in their interest to 'grow' their business. This is why there might be conflict of interest resulting in excessive testing and invasion of privacy.

Another issue is 'false positive' or 'borderline' tests -- every medical test has a false positive rate, that means the test is positive even if the exact banned substance wasn't actually present in the specimen. For doping the tests there rates may generally be fairly low, but even it's only 0.1% (1 in 1000), if WADA performs 1000 tests for 50 substances (so 50,000 individual tests), that results in 50 'false positives' purely on statistical grounds. In the current climate and with the implicit motivation from the labs and WADA to 'grow' their business, how easy do you think it is for an athlete to clear themselves after such a 'false positive'? Almost impossible. In a hospital when a test gives a strange result they repeat the test, possibly with a different test kit. In the case of doping, this is not possible, they only have the "B-sample", but that will be subject to the same conditions that influenced the result as the original sample.

JolánGagó
02-06-2009, 06:32 PM
A true mafia of parasites sucking players' blood.

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 06:36 PM
A true mafia of parasites sucking players' blood.

Change players' for public and blood for money and you've got what dopers are: a mafia of parasites sucking the public's money.

trixtah
02-06-2009, 08:32 PM
he was lucky not to get violated in his sleep.

this atp(itf) is good.

that's what they were going for before he woke up

El Legenda
02-06-2009, 09:45 PM
Under the new rules, athletes must report where they are for one hour of each day for the whole year so that investigators can call at any time, unannounced.

what? how do you announce if you cant call?
Did they to call to say they will call before this rule

El Legenda
02-06-2009, 09:47 PM
One question, are NBA players, or american footballers tested with this procedure too?

no..and when they do fail a test. it gets covered up by the league... see Barry Bonds in baseball...failed Steroid tests in 2000, 2001 and 2003, it was made public this week after a judge said so.

Deboogle!.
02-06-2009, 09:56 PM
what? how do you announce if you cant call?
Did they to call to say they will call before this rulei think there, by call they mean, make a visit. according to the quote from the bryan brothers in the othe thread, and other substantiation, until this new rule took effect you had an hour - they'd call you and you had 60 minutes to meet them. now they just show up and if you're not where you said you'd be, you get marked down as a missed test.

I'm all for eradicating doping, but I have to wonder if testing a guy right after he was tested at a grand slam is really the most effective way?

Bargearse
02-06-2009, 10:02 PM
If only these testers had been around in Petr Korda's day! Those steroids did nothing for his physique!

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 10:03 PM
I'm all for eradicating doping, but I have to wonder if testing a guy right after he was tested at a grand slam is really the most effective way?

Most people think black and white, morally, they want "to eridicate doping" This include high ranking officials in tennis, so they say yes to every over-the-top proposal from WADA. At the same time they don't have a clue about the details or the legal details or the medical/scientific background of anti-doping testing.

There haven't been many hard doping cases in tennis in recent years -- Volandri for a prescribed Asthma medication, Hingis for a mysterious opiate positive. Is a gargantuan compaign to find positives in tennis really necessary? I can see how some ATP hotshots on a high moral ground agreed with this stuff without thinking it over.

What is a big danger now that there will be a lot of positives -- probably many of them false positives -- that could cause all kinds of mayhem and alienation within the tennis world. The labs and organizations that are doing the testing on the tennis players have every interest to find doping positives and grow their business.

It's logical that they are looking for money in the tennis world now because the money in "easy targets" like cycling has dried up.

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 10:31 PM
no..and when they do fail a test. it gets covered up by the league... see Barry Bonds in baseball...failed Steroid tests in 2000, 2001 and 2003, it was made public this week after a judge said so.

It gets covered in tennis too.

littleash
02-06-2009, 11:56 PM
:secret:

wilmar
02-07-2009, 01:10 AM
This is not a sport plagued by doping, like others are. Puerta has been the major case, so no need to go beyond basic privacy rights with this. Nadal was tested about 20 times in 2008 I think.

Nadal was the most tested last year in Tennis, more than 35 times! Around 39 if I remember correct. :eek:

Murray behaves like a twat... amazing.
Shut the hell up and pee in the freaking cup, it's no big deal.

Many voiced their concerns. One player even walked out. And now Murray's fiasco.
So Glenn, what you don't know doesn't mean it didn't happen. Nadal is NOT the ONLY one against this silly new METHOD.

Really OTT in my opinion and the admin costs for all this must be horrendous.

Sure is! I know the admin cost must be obscene, but would love to know, who's gonna bear the cost of this logistics!?!?!?

What is a big danger now that there will be a lot of positives -- probably many of them false positives -- that could cause all kinds of mayhem and alienation within the tennis world. The labs and organizations that are doing the testing on the tennis players have every interest to find doping positives and grow their business.

It's logical that they are looking for money in the tennis world now because the money in "easy targets" like cycling has dried up.

Excellent insight!

And this echoes my worry too.

Everyone, from the ATP to the WADA, has their own agenda and the players ultimately pay the price (both literally and figuratively)

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 01:57 AM
Doesn't matter.

Whoever is against doping control, is, by definition, pro-doping.

KarlyM
02-07-2009, 02:30 AM
I'm all for anti-doping tests (and catching cheaters) but if what Murray said is true, than this stuff has gone too far. What Murray described should be what athletes who previously tested positive should follow - those who test positive and served a punishment should be made to follow these stringent testing procedures as part of a determined "probation period." To test everyone in this manner is ridiculous.

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 03:07 AM
So you're saying that people who have already served time should be monitored as they were still offenders?

This doesn't stand as decent, anywhere. People pay for their crimes and that's it.

wilmar
02-07-2009, 03:30 AM
So you're saying that people who have already served time should be monitored as they were still offenders?
This doesn't stand as decent, anywhere. People pay for their crimes and that's it.

:confused::confused::confused:

Oh The Wise-One, how you so contradict yourself.

You are NOT OK with "people who have already served time to (should) be monitored as (if) they were still offenders".

Yet, you are SO OK with people who have yet to have a criminal record to be treated as offenders with this ridiculous way officials go about doing their checks.

So to you, the innocent is more suspicious and guilty than past offenders.

What precise preception and intuitive insight!

Lucinda
02-07-2009, 04:38 AM
Next year will be 24-hour anti-doping handlers for each player :D

Deboogle!.
02-07-2009, 05:00 AM
Gustavo, what about the fact that they spent the time and resources to track down a guy at 7am to test him just a few days after he was already tested in-tournament? Forgetting the pro-doping/anti-testing stuff you keep bringing up, doesn't this simply strike you as a waste of resources and a really ineffective way to curb the problem? Like I said, i'm all for every anti-doping measure out there - if it works. But this is stupid. It's like they tested Murray at 7am right after he returned from Melbourne just b/c they could do it, not because they actually were employing any meaningful attempt at thwarting a potential cheater. I think there's definitely a place and time for surprise out-of-competition testing, but this just crosses the line into ridiculousness and it seems completely pointless and even worse, ineffective.

Tankman
02-07-2009, 05:15 AM
So you're saying that people who have already served time should be monitored as they were still offenders?

This doesn't stand as decent, anywhere. People pay for their crimes and that's it.

Gu, the other guys are right.

While the principles of justice should mean that, these guys are playing professional sport. They are in the limelight everyday. They are celebrities. Celebrities who will for the rest of their lives have a black mark against their name. They will always be known as 'that doper'

So I don't think it's unreasonable for people and the anti-doping agents to be suspicious of these guys. No matter how much they've changed. Because you never know.

Look at Willy Canas. Not to pass judgment, but he's in trouble again. Of course people are going to see him and Puerta differently to Nadal or Murray or Andrei Pavel if they were in the same situation.

Clydey
02-07-2009, 08:18 AM
So you're saying that people who have already served time should be monitored as they were still offenders?

This doesn't stand as decent, anywhere. People pay for their crimes and that's it.

You're having trouble remaining consistent, Gu.

In reference to Canas in a reply to me, you said:

"Once a cheat, always a cheat.

He was cleared because he started moving up the rankings and the ATP clears all the top players. No other reason."

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7237513&postcount=50

You can't have it both ways.

decrepitude
02-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Baffles me why people bother arguing with GlennMirnyi. You know he is never going to admit he is in the slightest bit in the wrong, don't you? :lol:

Tankman
02-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Baffles me why people bother arguing with GlennMirnyi. You know he is never going to admit he is in the slightest bit in the wrong, don't you? :lol:

Same reason why I was arguing with LinkMage

Moral crusade :p

Plus I have hope that in their little hearts, they can find reason to change. :)

miura
02-07-2009, 12:22 PM
Nadal was the most tested last year in Tennis, more than 35 times! Around 39 if I remember correct.
You know why don't you? They're stashing his urin and waiting for him to become a tennis legend and then selling it for abnormous profit on eBay.

Saumon
02-07-2009, 12:27 PM
I heard most of the players were against this at the last players meeting in Melbourne. So all the players are dopers, right? :awww:

Anyway it must be a logistic hell for the players. Their schedule depends mostly on when they lose. As soon as they lose they book a flight and move to the next city. So 3 months in advance they say they will be at whatever hotel they stay for one tournament for the whole week and once they lose, they have to update their schedule? :scratch:

Also it's impossible to be reachable 365 days/year unless the WADA guys get on the plane with them when they go to Australia for instance. :p

Btw, is it the same for WTA players?

anon57
02-07-2009, 12:43 PM
I heard most of the players were against this at the last players meeting in Melbourne. So all the players are dopers, right? :awww:

Anyway it must be a logistic hell for the players. Their schedule depends mostly on when they lose. As soon as they lose they book a flight and move to the next city. So 3 months in advance they say they will be at whatever hotel they stay for one tournament for the whole week and once they lose, they have to update their schedule? :scratch:

Also it's impossible to be reachable 365 days/year unless the WADA guys get on the plane with them when they go to Australia for instance. :p

Btw, is it the same for WTA players?
I think the WADA code applies to most professional athletes so I suspect WTA players have to comply with the same rules., I know cyclists have a similar system and a couple of them have been complaining about the digital system used to fill in the whereabouts as the system requires an exact adress for every day for the next three months and it's quite difficult to provide an adress when you're traveling from Europe to Australia and you'll be traveling for two days, as airplane or airport isn't exactly an exact adress:o

Tankman
02-07-2009, 01:01 PM
I heard most of the players were against this at the last players meeting in Melbourne. So all the players are dopers, right? :awww:

Anyway it must be a logistic hell for the players. Their schedule depends mostly on when they lose. As soon as they lose they book a flight and move to the next city. So 3 months in advance they say they will be at whatever hotel they stay for one tournament for the whole week and once they lose, they have to update their schedule? :scratch:

Also it's impossible to be reachable 365 days/year unless the WADA guys get on the plane with them when they go to Australia for instance. :p

Btw, is it the same for WTA players?

the wada guys should have some roster or something... say 300 agents can jet off to australia to check on the players while the other 10000 can jet off to other countries to cover all possible escape routes :lol:

sorry to devalue your post by my bad humour mate, but i couldn't resist :o

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 03:24 PM
:confused::confused::confused:

Oh The Wise-One, how you so contradict yourself.

You are NOT OK with "people who have already served time to (should) be monitored as (if) they were still offenders".

Yet, you are SO OK with people who have yet to have a criminal record to be treated as offenders with this ridiculous way officials go about doing their checks.

So to you, the innocent is more suspicious and guilty than past offenders.

What precise preception and intuitive insight!

No, you dolt.

You have severe reading comprehension problems. I think anyone against doping control is suspicious. That doesn't mean everybody.

About past record, it's unfair to put an ex-offender on a witch-hunt. The punishment should be harder, though. If cheaters were banned for life, there would be no such thing as witch-hunting.

Gustavo, what about the fact that they spent the time and resources to track down a guy at 7am to test him just a few days after he was already tested in-tournament? Forgetting the pro-doping/anti-testing stuff you keep bringing up, doesn't this simply strike you as a waste of resources and a really ineffective way to curb the problem? Like I said, i'm all for every anti-doping measure out there - if it works. But this is stupid. It's like they tested Murray at 7am right after he returned from Melbourne just b/c they could do it, not because they actually were employing any meaningful attempt at thwarting a potential cheater. I think there's definitely a place and time for surprise out-of-competition testing, but this just crosses the line into ridiculousness and it seems completely pointless and even worse, ineffective.

It was probably scheduled before anyway. Do you know the doping patterns? Me neither, but I'm sure they have a reason.

And I'm sure that Murray is overreacting and distorting this to complain.

Gu, the other guys are right.

While the principles of justice should mean that, these guys are playing professional sport. They are in the limelight everyday. They are celebrities. Celebrities who will for the rest of their lives have a black mark against their name. They will always be known as 'that doper'

So I don't think it's unreasonable for people and the anti-doping agents to be suspicious of these guys. No matter how much they've changed. Because you never know.

Look at Willy Canas. Not to pass judgment, but he's in trouble again. Of course people are going to see him and Puerta differently to Nadal or Murray or Andrei Pavel if they were in the same situation.

Okay, but the punishment should be harder on cheaters. I don't think they should be persecuted afterwards (I wouldn't give them a second chance, though).

You're having trouble remaining consistent, Gu.

In reference to Canas in a reply to me, you said:


http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7237513&postcount=50

You can't have it both ways.

That's a personal opinion on a certain player.

I don't think he should be tested more than others because of that, though, and I haven't said that anywhere.

Tankman
02-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Okay, but the punishment should be harder on cheaters. I don't think they should be persecuted afterwards (I wouldn't give them a second chance, though).

Well of course there shouldn't be persecution.

But since we are giving them second chances (:p), their record should be a factor in any future offences, something I'm sure you'd agree with ;)

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 03:33 PM
Well of course there shouldn't be persecution.

But since we are giving them second chances (:p), their record should be a factor in any future offences, something I'm sure you'd agree with ;)

On future offences, yes. On them being tested more than others, I don't know.

I'm far more suspicious of top 10 players running like marathonists for 10 hours in a row than a Karol Beck, for instance.

You don't investigate a criminal who has a straight job and has settled the same way you investigate someone who has been stealing or is acting very strangely (without a prior conviction). :p

Tankman
02-07-2009, 03:42 PM
On future offences, yes. On them being tested more than others, I don't know.

I'm far more suspicious of top 10 players running like marathonists for 10 hours in a row than a Karol Beck, for instance.

You don't investigate a criminal who has a straight job and has settled the same way you investigate someone who has been stealing or is acting very strangely (without a prior conviction). :p

No way.

That I'm sure about.

Yes they may have offended. But once they pay, like you say for their crimes, then they shouldn't be punished anymore. so by your logic, you should be taking a firm stand on this Gu :p :)

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 03:46 PM
No way.

That I'm sure about.

Yes they may have offended. But once they pay, like you say for their crimes, then they shouldn't be punished anymore. so by your logic, you should be taking a firm stand on this Gu :p :)

"I don't know" is a way of saying that I don't agree about it... like: hummm that doesn't work for me. ;)

Tankman
02-07-2009, 03:49 PM
"I don't know" is a way of saying that I don't agree about it... like: hummm that doesn't work for me. ;)

ah

yeah i understand

good to know mate :yeah:

hablovah19
02-07-2009, 07:53 PM
"He insisted on watching me provide a sample, literally with my trousers round my ankles.

"And then he insisted that I wrote down my own address, even though he was at my private home at 7am."

Why can't these tennis players realize that there is a reason why they have to be watched as they urinate? :rolleyes:

It's because other athletes have tried to replace their own urine with someone else's to avoid testing positive. DUH!

These tennis players need to get over it. I'm glad the rules are becoming stricter. I'm tired of the cheats getting away with doping. Tennis has been too lenient in the past. It's time this sport gets "rigourous" like cycling and track and field.

Athletes should get tested in the off-season too; that's when they dope the most, apparently. :help:

Tankman
02-07-2009, 08:00 PM
Why can't these tennis players realize that there is a reason why they have to be watched as they urinate? :rolleyes:

It's because other athletes have tried to replace their own urine with someone else's to avoid testing positive. DUH!

These tennis players need to get over it. I'm glad the rules are becoming stricter. I'm tired of the cheats getting away with doping. Tennis has been too lenient in the past. It's time this sport gets "rigourous" like cycling and track and field.

Athletes should get tested in the off-season too; that's when they dope the most, apparently. :help:

Well yeah. But think about it. We value our privacy very much. Especially in the areas we keep under our briefs/bras. So forgive me if I think that you dismissing their annoyance at having to be watched is a little mean.

having said that, i think they are quite aware of that. if they aren't they need to have their heads examined. seriously

and so what if they dope in the off-season. its generally less likely to help. if its long term i understand. so yeah players should get tested in the off-season. But for practical and privacy reasons i think it should be less than in the on-season :p

I'm tired of cheats getting away too. But bear in mind cheats make up 0.1% of the professional population - ok maybe with cyclists its 1% - but still. It's a very small and disgusting minority, who shouldn't have to inconvenience the 99.9% of clean tennis players (and the 99% of clean cyclists :p)

having said that, its the 2nd bit of that that irks me the most. They were asking him for his home address. At home. Having found him, you'd think they have the brains to know the address already :silly: :o :tape: :cuckoo:

Herdwick
02-07-2009, 08:16 PM
Privacy here - well I dont' know - I assume pro athletes are used to walking starkers around in the locker room in front of all comers; so is being watched urinating that much of an extra step :shrug:? Don't know.

But the issue of false positives, in which there must surely be an increase due to the increased number of tests, to my mind is significant. And the chance of clearing your name, bearing in mind the case is 'leaked' to the media once sample A has been tested as positive, would seem to be zilch.

Tankman
02-07-2009, 08:21 PM
Privacy here - well I dont' know - I assume pro athletes are used to walking starkers around in the locker room in front of all comers; so is being watched urinating that much of an extra step :shrug:? Don't know.

But the issue of false positives, in which there must surely be an increase due to the increased number of tests, to my mind is significant. And the chance of clearing your name, bearing in mind the case is 'leaked' to the media once sample A has been tested as positive, would seem to be zilch.

Well most of the people in the locker room have seen each other starkers a million times. But an agent from some evil antidoping agency. Normally he'd be lucky to wipe up after a pro athlete after they've taken their shower and gone :p

Heh I never even raised false positives in my tirade. All the more reason to not test so much.

Plus I can already name Hingis, Landis, Armstrong, Thorpe and many others who have had their careers, rightly or wrongly, ruined by a leaked drug test. So the chance is small. Thorpe and Armstrong are still fighting. Hingis gave up. And obviously we know Landis is a dirty cheat. So there.

TankingTheSet
02-07-2009, 08:28 PM
P
But the issue of false positives, in which there must surely be an increase due to the increased number of tests, to my mind is significant. And the chance of clearing your name, bearing in mind the case is 'leaked' to the media once sample A has been tested as positive, would seem to be zilch.

Indeed, I had the impressions WADA and doping authorities are even harsher in most cases -- if an athlete denies or raises the point that it's a false positive, they threaten longer/life-long bans or even implement them. If the athlete confesses he gets a 2 year ban. Most cyclists who denied being guilty after a positive test (even if there were real doubts about the validity) were effectively banned or shut out for the rest of their career until they confess. It's a Spanish Inquisition, nothing else.

Tankman
02-07-2009, 08:45 PM
Indeed, I had the impressions WADA and doping authorities are even harsher in most cases -- if an athlete denies or raises the point that it's a false positive, they threaten longer/life-long bans or even implement them. If the athlete confesses he gets a 2 year ban. Most cyclists who denied being guilty after a positive test (even if there were real doubts about the validity) were effectively banned or shut out for the rest of their career until they confess. It's a Spanish Inquisition, nothing else.

:help:

the more details I hear, the more terrible it becomes to me

any more and I'll start picketing WADA's office in Sydney.

And as far as I know, the boss is John Fahey and he's an Aussie :devil: :p :armed:

hablovah19
02-07-2009, 09:13 PM
and so what if they dope in the off-season. its generally less likely to help. if its long term i understand. so yeah players should get tested in the off-season. But for practical and privacy reasons i think it should be less than in the on-season :p
You're really naive if you actually believe this.

I'm tired of cheats getting away too. But bear in mind cheats make up 0.1% of the professional population - ok maybe with cyclists its 1% - but still. It's a very small and disgusting minority, who shouldn't have to inconvenience the 99.9% of clean tennis players (and the 99% of clean cyclists :p)



Right. Where are you getting these stats by the way? :haha:

Tankman
02-07-2009, 09:28 PM
You're really naive if you actually believe this.



Right. Where are you getting these stats by the way? :haha:

If you read my posts, you can in no way think I am naive :p I even put a disclaimer in my next sentence. Let me clarify. Short acting stuff is a no go in the off-season. the long term steroids/body building drugs etc etc etc are what will be taken.

My stats? From the Bureau of Commonsense and Experience mate :yeah:

Clydey
02-07-2009, 10:41 PM
That's a personal opinion on a certain player.

I don't think he should be tested more than others because of that, though, and I haven't said that anywhere.

You didn't say Canas was still a cheater (he was actually cleared). You said "once a cheat, always a cheat". That is a general statement about all cheats. If you think a cheat is always a cheat, why shouldn't they be tested more than those who haven't offended?

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 11:01 PM
You didn't say Canas was still a cheater (he was actually cleared). You said "once a cheat, always a cheat". That is a general statement about all cheats. If you think a cheat is always a cheat, why shouldn't they be tested more than those who haven't offended?

1 - I said it about Canas. Wasn't he caught twice?

2 - Once a criminal, always a criminal. Should the guy be on a constant hunt because of that?

One thing doesn't automatically link to another.

Clydey
02-07-2009, 11:07 PM
1 - I said it about Canas. Wasn't he caught twice?

2 - Once a criminal, always a criminal. Should the guy be on a constant hunt because of that?

One thing doesn't automatically link to another.

You didn't say it about Canas. You didn't say that Canas is still a cheat. It was a general statement: "Once a cheat, always a cheat". You can't make a blanket statement and then claim it only applies to one person simply because it's convenient for your argument.

From that it surely follows that they should be hounded because, according to you, they are still going to cheat. I don't think they should still be hounded because they failed a drug test. I'm just highlighting a contradiction. I think the current measures are absurd.

GlennMirnyi
02-07-2009, 11:10 PM
You didn't say it about Canas. You didn't say that Canas is still a cheat. It was a general statement: "Once a cheat, always a cheat". You can't make a blanket statement and then claim it only applies to one person simply because it's convenient for your argument.

From that it surely follows that they should be hounded because, according to you, they are still going to cheat. I don't think they should still be hounded because they failed a drug test. I'm just highlighting a contradiction. I think the current measures are absurd.

I posted that in a thread about Canas. Why do you think I wasn't talking about him?

Again, there's no connection between the stigma (that must remain and always be reminded to everybody) and a witch-hunt. You're connecting things that aren't connected.

Tankman
02-07-2009, 11:11 PM
I'd respond here. But I don't wanna kill this argument.

And you guys know what I'm capable of. The evidence is right here with your non-engagement with my arguments :p

Clydey
02-07-2009, 11:13 PM
I posted that in a thread about Canas. Why do you think I wasn't talking about him?

Again, there's no connection between the stigma (that must remain and always be reminded to everybody) and a witch-hunt. You're connecting things that aren't connected.

You weren't talking about Canas because it was a blanket statement.

Can't be bothered arguing. Fine, you were talking about Canas and only Canas.

wilmar
02-08-2009, 02:16 AM
You know why don't you? They're stashing his urine and waiting for him to become a tennis legend and then selling it for abnormous profit on eBay.

Oh shucks!

So many job perks for being an anti-doping official!!!

Besides being up close and personal with athletes' front-n-butt, there's this profitable venture into capital-free internet auction as well!

Wonder if there are more job openings at WADA this moment...

I heard most of the players were against this at the last players meeting in Melbourne. So all the players are dopers, right? :awww:

According to the laws of GlennMirny, yes.:rolleyes:

Anyway it must be a logistic hell for the players. Their schedule depends mostly on when they lose. As soon as they lose they book a flight and move to the next city. So 3 months in advance they say they will be at whatever hotel they stay for one tournament for the whole week and once they lose, they have to update their schedule? :scratch:?

Now now, we complicte things too much.

To WADA, it's actually an easy thing to do.

Players simply just have to predict which round they will lose at every tournament.

At least they'll be cleared for doping. Better than be charged for match-fixing...:rolleyes:

Also it's impossible to be reachable 365 days/year unless the WADA guys get on the plane with them when they go to Australia for instance. :p?

Good suggestion!

I think since WADA are convicted in their zealous cause, they should spend more tax-payers' money.

Very simple. They should attach to every tennis player what I'd call a Tennis Anti-Doping Nanny, or TADN.

Their job scope is very simple, they just have to report back to headquarters only for one hour, every day of the year, via msm, email, msn, phone, fax, or better, in person.

And their report simply needs to include their charge's location and acitivity.

The best thing about this TADN-scheme, WADA can have the daily report of a player's urine sample! Health-care have never been better!

No hassle at all for everyone involved, and it's even more effective because the TADN will be with the player 24/7. No chance for doping at all!

Anyone got the number to WADA?

Btw, is it the same for WTA players?

More humiliating I'd imagine. At least the men are standing...

No, you dolt..

:wavey:Glenn Mirnyi The Wise...Time for your medication.:wavey:

You have severe reading comprehension problems. I think anyone against doping control is suspicious. That doesn't mean everybody. .About past record, it's unfair to put an ex-offender on a witch-hunt.

You seem to forget, EVERYBODY will be subjected to this new stricter method, including those not against doping control.

And you stated that it's unfair to be more harsh on past offenders. They have paid their dues. But it is OK to witch-hunt EVERYBODYelse.

So by your line of reasoning, it's ok to subject a blanket strict rule to EVERYBODY but it's not fair to be prejudiced against past offenders.

So penalise the non-offenders, not the past-offenders.

I get you...TOTALLY!

And I'm sure that Murray is overreacting and distorting this to complain..

He's not. The officials want a test. And they want it here and now. I know of one player who had these officials barge in during his shower. And no, they won't and didn't even wait for him to finish his bath to collect his wee-wee sample.

Okay, but the punishment should be harder on cheaters. I don't think they should be persecuted afterwards (I wouldn't give them a second chance, though)..

WADA is kinder than you with their new witch-hunt method.

They allow tennis players three failures to report before any real action is taken.

So players, listen up.

Every year, you can only cheat with drugs for the first two times doping officials call you up. Just don't turn up for these two checks.

Only after these two failures that you really have to pull up your tennis socks and stay drugs-free. And then for the third and last call-up, make sure you are available to them come hell or waters high!

That's a personal opinion on a certain player..

Who? Stepanek?

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 02:54 AM
I know of one player who had these officials barge in during his shower. And no, they won't and didn't even wait for him to finish his bath to collect his wee-wee sample..............SERIOUSLY????????? :o

alfonsojose
02-08-2009, 03:24 AM
This nonsense must stop, they all should just agree on pulling a JMG and piss on the fucken inspector's face.

I can see some MTFers rushing to apply for the job.

:bolt:

wilmar
02-08-2009, 05:59 AM
.............SERIOUSLY????????? :o

Yes, *whispers out of ear-reach of GlennMirnyi* his name starts with an N and ends with a L. ;)

I believe this happened last year, before all this silly new ruling even took place.

So I am so not surprised to what happened to Murray.

safin-rules-no.1
02-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Like that, safin rules no.1 converted from hater of the tartan twat to fanboi of the golden showering bagpipe tosser.

what???

Tankman
02-08-2009, 04:28 PM
well it sounds like hate

and of course :awww: :hug:

WHO DELETED MY POST :(

l_mac
02-08-2009, 04:31 PM
:lol: NID.

Tankman
02-08-2009, 04:32 PM
:lol:

RagingLamb..... :p

Tankman
02-08-2009, 05:01 PM
I would also like to add to the mod who deleted my post (whoever it was :p) that my post was not delete material and was there purely to keep the peace.

You should make me a mod :p :rolls: :haha:

EDIT: You even deleted the l_mac's quote of my post :speakles: Blasphemy :ras:

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 05:06 PM
Yes, *whispers out of ear-reach of GlennMirnyi* his name starts with an N and ends with a L. ;)

I believe this happened last year, before all this silly new ruling even took place.

So I am so not surprised to what happened to Murray.Wow, that's just ridiculous. I think everyone deserves at least a modicum of privacy and human decency. It's not that hard to say....."I'll be waiting right outside, I expect to see you in 5 minutes"....gosh

Tankman
02-08-2009, 05:09 PM
Wow, that's just ridiculous. I think everyone deserves at least a modicum of privacy and human decency. It's not that hard to say....."I'll be waiting right outside, I expect to see you in 5 minutes"....gosh

exactly

are you the mod responsible for the delete of my post though? :p

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 05:57 PM
exactly

are you the mod responsible for the delete of my post though? :pno sorry :lol: I have no power in GM (thank god) :p

Tankman
02-08-2009, 06:10 PM
no sorry :lol: I have no power in GM (thank god) :p

:lol:

ok then

let the witch-hunt begin :armed: :haha:

Jōris
02-08-2009, 06:13 PM
Athletes in the past have tried to switch their urine with a clean sample, one cyclist even had a tube of untainted urine hidden in his armpit. I agree that supervision may be degrading, but also necessary... and somewhat funny.

Tankman
02-08-2009, 06:14 PM
Athletes in the past have tried to switch their urine with a clean sample, one cyclist even had a tube of untainted urine hidden in his armpit. I agree that supervision may be degrading, but also necessary... and somewhat funny.

ok yeah.... but still they are always going to have reservations. see my previous post on this topic :p

also

RagingLamb, scoobs, Fergie, SloKid, Neely, Denaon, ~*Carlita*~

who was it? own up. now :p :armed: :lol:

decrepitude
02-08-2009, 06:22 PM
Can't have been scoobs, he's away this weekend.

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 06:23 PM
Athletes in the past have tried to switch their urine with a clean sample, one cyclist even had a tube of untainted urine hidden in his armpit. I agree that supervision may be degrading, but also necessary... and somewhat funny.No I totally understand that, but we are under the presupposition that a player is in the shower and the WADA tester comes as a surprise. I dunno about you, but I really can't stretch a conspiracy so far to believe that all these guys are carrying around a secret stash of urine in the shower. Watch them pee in the cup, I totally get that, but to show up while someone's in the shower and not wait 2 minutes for them to throw a towel on just crosses some line of decency in my head. They could've waited a few minutes and then watched the peeing.

Tankman
02-08-2009, 06:24 PM
Can't have been scoobs, he's away this weekend.

okay 1 down. 6 to go.

I'd still say RL, but Carlita was very quick to jump to his defence so.... :aplot:

Tankman
02-08-2009, 06:25 PM
No I totally understand that, but we are under the presupposition that a player is in the shower and the WADA tester comes as a surprise. I dunno about you, but I really can't stretch a conspiracy so far to believe that all these guys are carrying around a secret stash of urine in the shower. Watch them pee in the cup, I totally get that, but to show up while someone's in the shower and not wait 2 minutes for them to throw a towel on just crosses some line of decency in my head. They could've waited a few minutes and then watched the peeing.

nods

Jōris
02-08-2009, 06:27 PM
No I totally understand that, but we are under the presupposition that a player is in the shower and the WADA tester comes as a surprise. I dunno about you, but I really can't stretch a conspiracy so far to believe that all these guys are carrying around a secret stash of urine in the shower. Watch them pee in the cup, I totally get that, but to show up while someone's in the shower and not wait 2 minutes for them to throw a towel on just crosses some line of decency in my head. They could've waited a few minutes and then watched the peeing.

Yes, I misread the conversation. Sorry. I removed your quote out of my post, but too late... you already replied. :o

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 06:31 PM
Yes, I misread the conversation. Sorry. I removed your quote out of my post, but too late... you already replied. :o:lol: no prob ;)

Henry Chinaski
02-08-2009, 09:10 PM
what happens if a sportsman gets stage fright and can't piss?

it's quite a common affliction

rocketassist
02-08-2009, 09:23 PM
If anyone woke me up at 7am unless I had an early start for uni I'd get a mallet and bash them on the head.

Tankman
02-08-2009, 09:40 PM
:haha:

Me too

Mods, I'm still waiting for an answer :p

Deboogle!.
02-08-2009, 09:44 PM
you might want to PM one of the GM mods or supermods :p any of them can tell you who deleted your posts and probably why :lol:

Carlita
02-08-2009, 09:46 PM
:haha:

Me too

Mods, I'm still waiting for an answer :pcheck your reps :p

and stay on topic :lol:

l_mac
02-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Should I check my reps too? :confused:

Tankman
02-08-2009, 09:55 PM
you might want to PM one of the GM mods or supermods :p any of them can tell you who deleted your posts and probably why :lol:

check your reps :p

and stay on topic :lol:

I think I have my answer :)

I'm not going to say who though :angel:

censored

okay calm down... there are enough fires burning in Australia, you don't need to start one in MTF servers. Otherwise you'll set Brisbane ablaze :help:

Tankman
02-08-2009, 09:56 PM
:haha:

ok thanks mods

but please don't delete my post :p

i'll edit it if you want though :cool:

Corey Feldman
02-08-2009, 10:17 PM
:lol: @ "censored"

good old Jaap

Tankman
02-08-2009, 10:27 PM
:lol: @ "censored"

good old Jaap

hehehe

where is Jaap these days? banned? :p

star
02-08-2009, 10:53 PM
Anyway it must be a logistic hell for the players. Their schedule depends mostly on when they lose. As soon as they lose they book a flight and move to the next city. So 3 months in advance they say they will be at whatever hotel they stay for one tournament for the whole week and once they lose, they have to update their schedule? :scratch:



What I know from cycling is that you can change where you are going to be if you fax WADA with the change. I think that all of this comes about from Tennis wanting to be an Olympic sport and each olympic sport has to comply with WADA regulations.

what happens if a sportsman gets stage fright and can't piss?

it's quite a common affliction

Normally in drug testing, there is a certain time limit to produce a sample. I don't know what the time limit is for WADA.


And everyone thinking it's nonsense to ask for the players name and ask for ID etc. The testers have a strict protocol they must follow in case the sample tests positive and the results are challenged. Some of the sports monitored are quite obscure and the testers can't be sure who they are testing. Once the protocol is established, they must follow it to the letter or it can create problems later on. People who test positive seize upon any kind of loophole they can find.

It is very uncomfortable, but in reality, they don't do that much out of competition testing. I don't know the protocol for determining who is tested and when.

Tankman
02-08-2009, 10:55 PM
What I know from cycling is that you can change where you are going to be if you fax WADA with the change. I think that all of this comes about from Tennis wanting to be an Olympic sport and each olympic sport has to comply with WADA regulations.

So? Doesn't make them any less draconian :p


Normally in drug testing, there is a certain time limit to produce a sample. I don't know what the time limit is for WADA.


And everyone thinking it's nonsense to ask for the players name and ask for ID etc. The testers have a strict protocol they must follow in case the sample tests positive and the results are challenged. Some of the sports monitored are quite obscure and the testers can't be sure who they are testing. Once the protocol is established, they must follow it to the letter or it can create problems later on. People who test positive seize upon any kind of loophole they can find.

It is very uncomfortable, but in reality, they don't do that much out of competition testing. I don't know the protocol for determining who is tested and when.

Well name and ID is all well and good, but the Murray story is very funny.

Having said that, I spose you're right.

And I know how sneaky lawyers can be. I'm training to be one myself :devil:

TankingTheSet
02-08-2009, 11:10 PM
Once the protocol is established, they must follow it to the letter or it can create problems later on. People who test positive seize upon any kind of loophole they can find.


You're making it sound as if athletes have any legal chance to save themselves. Actual practice from recent years shows that people that test positive for whatever reason (even cases that could be false positives) have a very hard to time to clear themselves, news is leaked to the media immediately, the ban happens anyway, their career is ruined, the world knows them as a "doper" for the rest of their lives, fair legal process doesn't even come into it. The WADA laboratories have a carte blanche to use any medical testing protocol, even ones that fall far short of reasonable standard of reliability, and there is little opportunity to make a scientific challenge to these methods.

star
02-08-2009, 11:12 PM
So? Doesn't make them any less draconian :p

Oh, it's fine with me if tennis doesn't want to be an olympic sport. I think it's a stupid olympic sport (except when Rafa won. :lol: )

It's just that if the athletes want to participate in the olympics, this is the procedure.





And I know how sneaky lawyers can be. I'm training to be one myself :devil:

It's not too late to change. :hug: :lol:

Tankman
02-08-2009, 11:20 PM
You're making it sound as if athletes have any legal chance to save themselves. Actual practice from recent years shows that people that test positive for whatever reason (even cases that could be false positives) have a very hard to time to clear themselves, news is leaked to the media immediately, the ban happens anyway, their career is ruined, the world knows them as a "doper" for the rest of their lives, fair legal process doesn't even come into it. The WADA laboratories have a carte blanche to use any medical testing protocol, even ones that fall far short of reasonable standard of reliability, and there is little opportunity to make a scientific challenge to these methods.

yes. yes and yes.

French are the worst. And don't get me started on L'Equipe :ras:

I wrote a post on this already btw :p

Oh, it's fine with me if tennis doesn't want to be an olympic sport. I think it's a stupid olympic sport (except when Rafa won. :lol: )

It's just that if the athletes want to participate in the olympics, this is the procedure.

It's not too late to change. :hug: :lol:

Yeah me too. It only shoved its way onto the scene in 1988. 20 years of Olympic glory is good enough :lol: And now that Rafa's gone we should get it banned so that Federer has no reason to bother playing anymore :p :haha: Or maybe that will just make him pissed, resulting in him winning 8 FOs and the Grand Slam 4 times. Whatever the result, it's all good :cool:

The procedure sucks :(

I know. But I'm not going to unless you give me a compelling reason :p

Nathaliia
02-09-2009, 09:50 PM
I found a GlennMirnyi photo on the internet supporting the new rules.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fail-owned-jihad-fail.jpg

Tankman
02-09-2009, 10:06 PM
:haha:

gu wtf have you been doing

and why do you suddenly look like alqaeda all of a sudden? :eek: :bolt:

l_mac
02-09-2009, 10:26 PM
As a match loser, Nadal was one of five players who had to queue up for drug testing, creating a backup which left second seed Andy Murray uncomfortably prevented by testers from going to the toilet for at least 90 minutes after his own doubles loss until he could be tested in turn.

That kind of regulation is what has the Scot seething at the new regime which requires that Top 50 players report each day to international anti-corruption officials where and when they will be available for possible testing for one hour for every day on the calendar.

"This is the third time I have been tested over the past 16 or 17 days ... I don't understand why we have to do it during tournament weeks when we are being tested anyway," Murray said.

"So many things could be done better. We are humans.

"We have ten-and-a-half months of tennis and we are getting tested at least 25 times.

"Why is is that only the Top 50 have to do this whereabouts thing. What about number 51?"


http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/254954,nadal-helping-hand-in-doubles-falls-short-for-mallorcan-mate.html

Murray must be pretty near the top of GlennMirnyi's suspect list :awww:

Tankman
02-09-2009, 10:29 PM
near the top??

I'd say he's there already :p

love the new sig btw :)

wilmar
02-10-2009, 02:13 AM
"As a match loser, Nadal was one of five players who had to queue up for drug testing, creating a backup which left second seed Andy Murray uncomfortably prevented by testers from going to the toilet for at least 90 minutes after his own doubles loss until he could be tested in turn."

Poor Mooray. :haha:

I can imagine him doing the wee-wee-control dance we guys are so familiar with....wriggling about as if there's a can of worms in the pants, bending tummy forward and sticking butt outwards, locking his knees together one moment, and rubbing his inner thighs together the next. :lol:

Deboogle!.
02-11-2009, 03:07 PM
not everyone agrees.......

Andy Roddick, who shares a nickname with the tainted baseball player, played his opening-round match of the SAP Open. Afterward, he said he wasn't bothered by the doping scandal swirling around the other A-Rod, the Yankees' Alex Rodriguez.

"It makes me prouder of tennis," Roddick said. "We have the strictest testing in sports. We literally have to provide where we are hour by hour, every day. If I was to go to San Francisco for dinner for the night, I'd have to call it in."

Roddick went on to describe the uncomfortable testing process that his baseball counterpart never had to experience. A call on the home phone or a knock on the door at 6 a.m. An observer in the bathroom for a urine test. Possibly a blood test. An ID check.

"There's no question it's an inconvenience," Roddick said. "But if you're going to err, you should err on the side of being clean. I guess it's a necessary evil."
http://www.mercurynews.com/sportsheadlines/ci_11676530

tangerine_dream
02-11-2009, 03:12 PM
Okay, the whole "stranger observing while you're peeing in a cup" is what gets me. I couldn't do that. I would have too shy a bladder to do that. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/toilet-9.gif

tennizen
02-11-2009, 03:15 PM
Okay, the whole "stranger observing while you're peeing in a cup" is what gets me. I couldn't do that. I would have too shy a bladder to do that. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/toilet-9.gif

:rolls: Brings up all kinds of questions. What if the stranger is gay and casts lustful glances towards the players in this process of observation. What if he makes inappropriate advances?

Lee
02-11-2009, 07:02 PM
It's even more difficult for female players with someone watching you :o :o :o

Mjau!
09-13-2009, 01:07 PM
I really don't think this is too much to ask of the players. They have to state what adress they are staying at (which can be changed easily) and actually be there for one hour a day, and you get to pick the hour.
The players complaining have to realize that without this system, their competitors are basically free to dope in between tournaments. I don't think they want that.
Now, this system isn't fool proof by any means, but at least it makes it a lot harder to dope.

chenx15
09-13-2009, 01:16 PM
if it's the only way to keep the playing field fair so be it. it's not like the players didn't know this before they chose this profession.

optimism
09-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Andy Roddick makes perfect sense. The two are just whiners with only their self-interest in mind. It's like an actress complaining about paparazzi. If Nadal and Murray don't like to be tested, they can quit the sport. No one cares.