How Can Federer Solve Nadal's Puzzle? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How Can Federer Solve Nadal's Puzzle?

SheepleBuster
02-03-2009, 04:12 AM
There is no secret that Federer doesn't like guys who stand up to him. Guys like Murray and Nadal have dominated him in the past few months. Murray still hasn't cut it in slam but Nadal has literally cracked Roger's soul. I don't know about you but I think those two Clay court finals against Nadal before the French Open really messed Roger up. He was up 4-0 and 4-1 in two sets and lost both 7-5. He was again up by a big margin in the second final and lost. Then French just took Roger's breath away and Wimbledon totally annihilated his confidence. I am not sure what AO does but it doesn't help.

How can Roger get back at Nadal? I doubt only adjustments will do. Does he need a tough coach like Wilander or Agassi? Or maybe he needs Reyes? Anyone who saw AO final could tell that Roger was just nervous, almost too nervous. The guy who won against Roddick would've beaten Nadal, but the guy who showed up in the final was a broken man. Can that be fixed or should Roger just pray to avoid the likes of Nadal and Murray for the rest of his career?

Albatros99
02-03-2009, 04:30 AM
Federer has always struggled to beat Nadal even when the GOAT was not half the player he is now. Obviously the more defeats against the GOAT the less confidence the second GOAT will have when playing the GOAT. It is only natural and if anything it is going to get worse as Federer is starting to decline and the GOAT has not even peaked. This psychological burden and more esoteric explanations for Federer defeats against Nadal they seem to act as a pain killer for FedTards.

SheepleBuster
02-03-2009, 04:43 AM
Federer has always struggled to beat Nadal even when the GOAT was not half the player he is now. Obviously the more defeats against the GOAT the less confidence the second GOAT will have when playing the GOAT. It is only natural and if anything it is going to get worse as Federer is starting to decline and the GOAT has not even peaked. This psychological burden and more esoteric explanations for Federer defeats against Nadal they seem to act as a pain killer for FedTards.

Funny. Nadal will never be the GOAT. He will probably end up with 10 or 11 slams but guys like Del Potor, Monfils, Murray, Djokovic, and many others will start challenging him. Your problem is that you think after Fed is gone Rafa will just mow through the the field. I really can see 2 more French, 1 or 2 Wimbledons and 1 or 2 Hard court slams in Nadal's future, nothing more than that. But we shall see. If Roger somehow wins 15, it'd be hard for Nadal to be called the GOAT, even if he finishes with a 30-6 record against Roger

alfonsojose
02-03-2009, 05:30 AM
More tennis, less show. For being the GOAT, his lack of tactics was embarrasing. He lacks approach shots, his slice was gone. It was wrong tactics + lack of balls + the useless aditional pressure he puts on himslef being the spokeswhore of every brand available. Pocahontas lost deep on his shots and still the scared swiss just hit them back. The only nice variation, the drop shots. And the spaniard returns :help: it was a great moment to try more S&V and Roger didn't. Nadal didn't played particularly great. This was not an epic macth, but he showed balls. Crying Fed saw the window to beat Nadal to get the 14th slam and he panicked. a GOAT would have died fighting :shrug:

sheeter
02-03-2009, 05:37 AM
I'd just like to point out that right now a LOT more people than Federer are having trouble cracking Nadal's puzzle.

swebright
02-03-2009, 05:54 AM
He can't change his style of play. He has to live with it but make the best out of it. Should go back to the basic and practice x1000.

Somebody has to talk to him through his thick skull. Who can coach him? I don't think there are too many smart coaches. [But he has to make up his mind and accept that he needs a coach first and foremost]. He might listen to Agassi, because Roger still respects him. Wilander, don't think so. Cahill, may be.

Or, just accept the fact that he's getting older and not as sharp as before. Just learn from how former number #1s survive their life before deciding to retire.

BUT, most important of all, he needs a shrink. Or, just punch cardboard Nadal picture 100 times/day.

dmit424
02-03-2009, 06:22 AM
There is no secret that Federer doesn't like guys who stand up to him. Guys like Murray and Nadal have dominated him in the past few months. Murray still hasn't cut it in slam but Nadal has literally cracked Roger's soul. I don't know about you but I think those two Clay court finals against Nadal before the French Open really messed Roger up. He was up 4-0 and 4-1 in two sets and lost both 7-5. He was again up by a big margin in the second final and lost. Then French just took Roger's breath away and Wimbledon totally annihilated his confidence. I am not sure what AO does but it doesn't help.

How can Roger get back at Nadal? I doubt only adjustments will do. Does he need a tough coach like Wilander or Agassi? Or maybe he needs Reyes? Anyone who saw AO final could tell that Roger was just nervous, almost too nervous. The guy who won against Roddick would've beaten Nadal, but the guy who showed up in the final was a broken man. Can that be fixed or should Roger just pray to avoid the likes of Nadal and Murray for the rest of his career?

So Federer was up significantly on Nadal in those two clay court finals... And yet, you say adjustments won't do, even though your post serves as evidence that Federer does have the tennis game to overcome Nadal, but is lacking the mental game.

What he needs, more than anything, is a mental adjustment. I am not sure how that is done. By the way, I am not discounting Nadal's game or dominance over Federer as simply something due to Federer not being confident enough... I mean, part of Nadal's package is how relentless he is... He wears down opponents, physically and mentally.

I feel that Roger loses to him because he gets mentally worn down, and so then his game goes, too. Federer always seems to give in mentally to Nadal.

GlennMirnyi
02-03-2009, 06:24 AM
More tennis, less show. For being the GOAT, his lack of tactics was embarrasing. He lacks approach shots, his slice was gone. It was wrong tactics + lack of balls + the useless aditional pressure he puts on himslef being the spokeswhore of every brand available. Pocahontas lost deep on his shots and still the scared swiss just hit them back. The only nice variation, the drop shots. And the spaniard returns :help: it was a great moment to try more S&V and Roger didn't. Nadal didn't played particularly great. This was not an epic macth, but he showed balls. Crying Fed saw the window to beat Nadal to get the 14th slam and he panicked. a GOAT would have died fighting :shrug:

Good points.

Federer is too stubborn. He definitely has the game to win, but he can't get his head around the fact that Nadull is just another mediocre moonballer off clay. He dominated every set except for the last one in the match. The third set was the most pathetic of them all, because he had like 6 break points, was dominating most rallies, and still couldn't close the deal. When he went to the TB, he collapsed mentally. Just when you'd expect him to be stronger, considering the played the whole set much better.

He can't change his style of play. He has to live with it but make the best out of it. Should go back to the basic and practice x1000.

Somebody has to talk to him through his thick skull. Who can coach him? I don't think there are too many smart coaches. [But he has to make up his mind and accept that he needs a coach first and foremost]. He might listen to Agassi, because Roger still respects him. Wilander, don't think so. Cahill, may be.

Or, just accept the fact that he's getting older and not as sharp as before. Just learn from how former number #1s survive their life before deciding to retire.

BUT, most important of all, he needs a shrink. Or, just punch cardboard Nadal picture 100 times/day.

Federer doesn't respect Agassi more than he respects any other person. He dominated Agassi like a junior in his last days on tour.

The only guys Federer still respects are Sampras and Laver. Laver won't coach him, but Sampras might.

bobbynorwich
02-03-2009, 06:40 AM
Fed needs a coach. Then there's someone else to blame for a loss which takes the pressure off him. :o

MalwareDie
02-03-2009, 06:45 AM
The only guys Federer still respects are Sampras and Laver. Laver won't coach him, but Sampras might.

I think he still respects Borg as he refers to Borg as the king of the game.

peterparker
02-03-2009, 06:46 AM
Maybe he should ask nadal? I bet nadal would give him the answer. :angel:

Serenidad
02-03-2009, 07:13 AM
Federer is too stubborn.

Exactly. Federer this that he shouldn't HAVE to change his game which is a direct byproduct of his arrogance/self-confidence or however you want to spin it. He is losing, but judging by his press conferences and the way he keeps playing the same way against Nadal he thinks that if he does everything right using his current game then he doesn't need to try anything different.

What is even more sad is that Federer isn't a one-dimensional player. He HAS the tools to give Nadal different looks and try some new shots, but he doesn't. For now, he is a player who has been in four straight major finals losing three of them to Nadal. His confidence isn't where it should be now and that is going to make it even harder for Federer to take risks or maybe with all eyes firmly on Nadal (if there was ever any doubt after the Wimbledon/OG double) he will feel pressure lifted and raise his game.

Who knows. Obviously, Federer is capable of beating anyone. He isn't getting blown away off clay. Losing 9:7 in the 5th and going down again in the 5th set albeit with a lot less resistance. Nadal, at the moment, just has what seems to be an unassailable mental edge now.

gjr
02-03-2009, 09:21 AM
Federer was the most nervous in a slam final than I've ever seen him. Not sure what his problem was. Playing in front of Laver, equaling the slam record or just scared of Nadal? Maybe all 3. Fed said his 1st serve was off and it was but against anyone else maybe except Murray and Roger has 14. He didn't appear to be this nervous in last years FO. just consigned himself to losing, another thing he never does.

Whatever is going on in Feds mind he needs to sort it out because they are odds on to play at the years FO, should meet in the Wimbly final and if Fed loses both of those again, i dunno, he maybe be shot to pieces before the USO.

MariaV
02-03-2009, 09:25 AM
The only guys Federer still respects are Sampras and Laver. Laver won't coach him, but Sampras might.

:spit: :rolls: :rolls: Pete would help Roger to break his own record? :rolls: :rolls:

Hagar
02-03-2009, 09:26 AM
What Fed needs is to win agains Nadal is: variation, agression, patience and keeping his cool. His tennis is definitely good enough to beat Rafa.

groundstroke
02-03-2009, 09:28 AM
The match in 2004 caused damage to Federer's head, when a 17yr old Nadal beat him.. if only Fed beat him in that match.

sebastiagol
02-03-2009, 09:35 AM
Simple. The only thing that Rogers needs is to win one more Grand Slam. Then all presure will go away, and he will be able to convert all those leads, all those break points. Is only a mental problem.
If he reach the 14th i have no doubt that he would be ready to win the french open. And maybe the 4 GS in a season.

dylan24
02-03-2009, 09:40 AM
roger needs a fucking coach asap

FlameOn
02-03-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't think Federer will win the French Open ever. Not with Nadal there. But, the other three slams are certainly attainable if he learns to handle Nadal should he meet him in a final.

Bargearse
02-03-2009, 10:03 AM
So Federer was up significantly on Nadal in those two clay court finals... And yet, you say adjustments won't do, even though your post serves as evidence that Federer does have the tennis game to overcome Nadal, but is lacking the mental game.

What he needs, more than anything, is a mental adjustment. I am not sure how that is done. By the way, I am not discounting Nadal's game or dominance over Federer as simply something due to Federer not being confident enough... I mean, part of Nadal's package is how relentless he is... He wears down opponents, physically and mentally.

I feel that Roger loses to him because he gets mentally worn down, and so then his game goes, too. Federer always seems to give in mentally to Nadal.

There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative. I wonder ... do the little annoying things that Nadal does like delaying the coin toss, the eternity he takes between points/serves, his persistent wedgie, the absolute positioning of his drink bottles, Uncle Tony's coaching, the way he jumps around the court like a monkey... the constant barrage of shots hit to Fed's backhand..... do these things contribute to the mental woes Federer has against Nadal?.

Federer needs a coach and a sports psychologist asap... Obviously his game is of the highest quality but every player needs a little help and his mental game (against Nadal) well, that is a scientific experiment.

r3d_d3v1l_
02-03-2009, 10:20 AM
The talent is there. The mind isn´t.

Getting a coach will certainly help Federer getting prepared for the matches.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 10:32 AM
Yeah, he definitely needs a coach.

I know it would never happen, but I can envisage a dream partnership with Sampras for sure. Sampras would definitely get Federer working on his attacking game, finishing points early and playing to his strengths (ie not pushing weak backhands midcourt to Nadal).

Federer just needs to have faith that his natural game is good enough to beat anyone on tour. One thing Sampras would never have done on a fast surface is to give the opponent too much respect and sit back rallying with them, playing to their strength. This is the reason why he had such a good record with Agassi. In a Sampras vs Nadal matchup, sure Nadal would still be hitting non-stop to Pete's backhand but Pete would have done something about it:

Rip a big backhand down the line - sure it may have gone long but at least he's trying to win the point on his terms.

Run around the backhand to hit the big inside-out forehand

Hit an approach shot and come to the net - sure Nadal has great passing shots, but can he keep coming up with them in a best of 5 sets match? If the approach shot is good enough, then the answer is no.

I'm rambling on here but the point is, Federer needs to use his weapons against Nadal. Best forehand, volleys and backhand slice in the game - use them.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 10:38 AM
There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative.

That's a really good point. I've noticed it mostly when he approaches the net, usually Federer looks imposing at the net and you expect him to win the point from there but against Nadal the shoulders drop before the Spaniard even hits the passing shot, it's as if he's already given up on the point. Just a terrible mentality to have against a defensive player. Federer needs to act more aggressive and play more aggressive tennis.

As it stands, Verdasco can hold his head much higher despite losing by a similar scoreline. At least he went down with fight and positivity (until the double fault!!).

Commander Data
02-03-2009, 10:38 AM
Agassi! He understands the game and knows how to win when you are older. He has won the French with 29 years, perfect match.

cool bird1
02-03-2009, 10:39 AM
To be honest I would rather Federer just did not have the game to beat Federer a bit like Rodick just does not have the game to beat Federer.

Federer has the taltent to beat Nadal no problem but mentaly Nadal owns hims. In every match apart from the french Federer could of and should of won thoese matches last year.

He has a massive mental bloke agaist Nadal. How do you fix that. I mean just look at the break point he just can not take agist Nadal it is pitaful.

FlameOn
02-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Why doesn't he have a coach?

Commander Data
02-03-2009, 10:48 AM
Why doesn't he have a coach?

When may wonder...I thought he played better under Tony Roche then without coach...Some people claimed that Roche failed as Federer lost the FO-final, but look how he is doing without coach...

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 10:51 AM
Why doesn't he have a coach?

How can you teach the best? He just wants to do things his own way. Probably why he's taking these defeats particularly badly, there's nobody to share the burden with; it's all his fault. To be fair, he's still been very successful coach-less.

My personal view is that he does need a new coach, it can't hurt to have a second point of view even if you are at the top of your profession. It should be encouraged. Good coaches don't come cheap though, maybe he doesn't want to fork out for one ;)

FlameOn
02-03-2009, 10:57 AM
How can you teach the best? He just wants to do things his own way. Probably why he's taking these defeats particularly badly, there's nobody to share the burden with; it's all his fault. To be fair, he's still been very successful coach-less.

I think he does need a new coach, it can't hurt to have a second point of view even if you are at the top of your profession. It should be encouraged. Good coaches don't come cheap though, maybe he doesn't want to fork out for one ;)
That's why he needs a coach. He's no longer top of his profession. :D And he's the richest male tennis player ever I thought. I'm sure he can afford a coach. :D

duong
02-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Be eliminated if Nadal is still qualified for the final

is the only way to solve the puzzle.

Nadal transforms each match in a boxing match, and Federer just doesn't like it.

And I don't like it either.

Let Nadal destroy another masochist player like him or Simon
... or be destroyed by another brute like Tsonga.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 11:01 AM
That's why he needs a coach. He's no longer top of his profession. :D And he's the richest male tennis player ever I thought. I'm sure he can afford a coach. :D

I was speaking in general, anyone in the top 100 can consider themselves at the top of their profession. Technically you're right of course :p

And I was kidding about not being able to afford a coach, he can take his pick obviously.

leng jai
02-03-2009, 11:13 AM
Hit the backhand even shorter in the court. Currently its too deep since and Nadull is able to get to it on the first bounce.

JolánGagó
02-03-2009, 11:47 AM
He can't do shit, he's totally and definitely owned. He should fix his mind on his nice evergrowing collection of salad plates.

nastoff
02-03-2009, 11:52 AM
He just needs more consistency in the match, that's all. He can't expect to vary his level of play so much in the duration of a game and not be punished by Nadal. Verdasco was so consistent in his match against Nadal and Nadal struggled a lot more than with Federer.

Oh and he definitely needs a coach.

yavore
02-03-2009, 12:05 PM
Funny. Nadal will never be the GOAT. He will probably end up with 10 or 11 slams but guys like Del Potor, Monfils, Murray, Djokovic, and many others will start challenging him. Your problem is that you think after Fed is gone Rafa will just mow through the the field. I really can see 2 more French, 1 or 2 Wimbledons and 1 or 2 Hard court slams in Nadal's future, nothing more than that. But we shall see. If Roger somehow wins 15, it'd be hard for Nadal to be called the GOAT, even if he finishes with a 30-6 record against Roger

Fed should retire with immediate effect. Otherwise he could really finish his career with embarrassing 6-30. And even if delusional fedtards pretend that it is GS nr that is important - these H2H records will torture him forever :cool:

SwiSha
02-03-2009, 12:06 PM
by retirement

groundstroke
02-03-2009, 12:08 PM
Hit the backhand even shorter in the court. Currently its too deep since and Nadull is able to get to it on the first bounce.

I still remember Fed's BH return to serve in 2005, especially in the AO 2005, it was phenomenal.. made about 20 winners in a match just based on that, shame he can't do it anymore.

But we saw against Nadal that sometimes Fed took an instep, and smashed about 10 clean BH winners against Nadal.. signs that it's getting better against Nadal.

SheepleBuster
02-03-2009, 01:29 PM
I mean a year ago when Roger put a beat down on Rafa at Masters cup, I really thought he had the formula. He even showed promise on Clay, even though he let large leads go. But French, Roger had no belief. I mean losing a set to your fierce 6-0? Nadal wasn't that much better. Roger was just so terrible. Then Wimbledon. Not being able to break Nadal's serve was just plain embarrassing. And Nadal should've won that final in 3. He choked. I never thought I'd see a day Roger get utterly dominated by a tired Nadal in a 5 set. Roger is too arrogant to admit he needs a new approach. Rafa is not Roddick. You can't put the ball back in play and expect to win a lot of points.

As far as coaches, I think Roger needs a guy who can put him in his place. But even then, I doubt he can beat Nadal. Nadal has just killed him mentally.

Johnny Groove
02-03-2009, 01:36 PM
The thing about this rivalry is that Federer simply cannot deal with Nadal. Whether it has to do with high lefty forehands to Roger's inferior backhand, Rafa's insane speed, retrieving balls that would be winners against 99% of the tour, or that Roger has now run out of excuses regarding surface.

Here is what Roger needs to do: Get a coach who he will listen to. Laver, perhaps :lol:

Whoever the coach is needs to tell stubborn Fed that he needs to work on that backhand, especially taking it early and down the line. His slice to Nadal's backhand also worked rather well in the final, but Roger feels the need to get into extended rallies with Nadal, the tennistic equivalent of suicide.

Fed needs to serve very well if he wants to beat Rafa as well, but I personally think the biggest thing is Fed's mentality. He's got a winning record over 99% of the tour so him not being able to beat a single guy is something new for him. He has to believe he can win, he has to visualize the victory and stop choking leads.

As for Nadal, just keep on pluggin away, dude :rocker2:

t0x
02-03-2009, 01:40 PM
He has the game to trouble Rafa, even on clay.

He needs to work on consistancy, and definatley the mental side of the game. He lets large leads slip against Rafa and he can't afford that.

Stuff changing his game, it's too late for that. He needs a coach to help him with his confidence.

duong
02-03-2009, 01:48 PM
He has the game to trouble Rafa, even on clay.

On clay, Nadal should dominate like Borg, I believe.

Or if somebody can dominate him there, then I believe he will be the new number 1.

If Nadal is not injured, Roland-Garros finals should be very boring next years ... I remember Borg's time, it was like that.

At least when you played against Federer, you could do something.
Playing against Nadal on clay really needs to be masochistic (like Mathieu some years ago), or you play one set or two, or you give up.

Johnny Groove
02-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Another thing Roger has to contend with is the fact that Nadal is a better player every time they play.

Corey Feldman
02-03-2009, 01:55 PM
cant wait till Muzza hits his full stride and these kind of threads will be made about Nadal in future

i'm gonna have a f'en ball

duong
02-03-2009, 01:57 PM
Another thing Roger has to contend with is the fact that Nadal is a better player every time they play.

Nadal is a better player, but Federer is more beautiful for most of the people, he should console with that.

I and many people love him and his game, even when he loses. I don't care.

Nadull is the king of modern tennis.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 02:02 PM
Another thing Roger has to contend with is the fact that Nadal is a better player every time they play.

That's the bottom line, yes :lol:

I think we're bandwagoning a bit here, and I'm guilty of it too.

Things aren't that bad for Federer, he's lost his last two matches with Nadal in tight five-setters. If he was suffering consistent beatdowns like the French Open final then we'd definitely have a point that it's all over as far as competing with Nadal.

He played a pretty awful match by his standards and still took the invincible Spaniard to five sets, perhaps it's not as bad as we're making out. Add that to the fact he's been in the final of the last four grand slams, he's not exactly finished is he :)

madmax
02-03-2009, 02:29 PM
How is Nadal a better player than Roger? Federer is the most complete player of all time, he has all the tricks and shots in his book, he just can't overcome mental burden over that tiresome wall of defence, known as Nadal...until he fixes his head and stays calm and patient throughout the match, he won't beat him. His body language completely changes when he faces his nemesis, and that"s a sign of mental weakness...you need to have balls of steel to take it to the spaniard, otherwise you are wasted

Swagger&Poise
02-03-2009, 02:42 PM
A key difference between Verdasco and Federer in the semi and final was each player's mentality going against Nadal.

How is Nadal a better player than Roger?

^Because he has beaten him in big matches on every surface in major finals within the last year, and has not lost to him since 2007. Just because Federer plays what is seemingly a more well-rounded game, doesn't necessarily mean he is the better player when it comes to the individual match-up.

fred perry
02-03-2009, 02:50 PM
hope that Murray is in Nadal's "semi" and not his? :rolleyes:

wally1
02-03-2009, 05:06 PM
It's pretty simple really, he need to stop the match being a constant battle between his backhand and Nadal's forehand. When it's like that it's very tough for him to win, even on grass and HC.

There's a number of obvious ways to stop this pattern:-

a) Run round the backhand to hit big forehands
b) Attack the net
c) Play the backhand down the line (particularly use the slice)
d) Use the dropshot

If Federer did each of these things even 5% more than he currently does he'd win on grass and HC.

Vale
02-03-2009, 05:16 PM
I think this is a good analysis (don´t know if it´s been posted elsewhere...):

http://www.tennisweek.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=6626294

How Roger Can Get His Groove Back

By Franklin L. Johnson

Monday, February 02, 2009

As Roger Federer enters the most important year of his brilliant career, he must have a lot on his mind. For the first time since 2004, he enters the new season chasing the top player on tour — and that chase is clearly more challenging after World No. 1 Rafael Nadal, who won a grueling five-set marathon match that spanned a record 5 hours, 14 minutes in the semifinals, shrugged off any lingering fatigue and gave Federer a gut-wrenching five-set loss in Sunday's Australian Open final.

The tears Federer shed show how much he cares and how haunted he has become by Nadal, who has scored five straight victories over the once-invincible Swiss to seize a 13-6 advantage in their head-to-head series.

Let's be honest: Roger Federer is now a vulnerable No. 2. For most players, this would be no disgrace. But for Fed, ranked among the greatest ever to play the game, this is a troubling development. The alarm bells are ringing somberly in the tennis media. They're playing a slow dirge instead of a lively tune. The articles are fearful of Fed's swift decline from god-like glory to earthly mortality. But, before we bronze Fed and set him on his well-deserved pedestal in the Hall of Fame, there's reason to believe reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Before you start rolling your eyes at the notion of a Roger revival — especially the day after Rafa reduced him to tears — hear me out.

Due to a mild case of mononucleosis he contracted at the end of 2007, Federer didn't get off to a great start last year. After reaching ten consecutive major finals, Fed fell to the surging Serbian, Novak Djokovic, in the Oz semifinal. Lingering effects of the disease cramped Roger's efforts to find his legendary form. Despite his struggles, he still reached the finals in the last three majors of 2008; competed in one of the best Wimbledon matches ever and won the US Open. Lesser players would surrender a body part to achieve these feats in a single career. Nevertheless, we measure Roger with a longer yard stick.

Federer faces three challenges this year: matching Pete Sampras' record 14 major wins; beating Rafa more times than Nadal beats him and snatching back the top spot in men's tennis. These are daunting tasks, but he can bank them all — even after Nadal ripped his heart out again in beating Federer for the fifth straight time in a final. In total, this will be a smaller burden than his illness-plagued Olympic season.

So, how can Roger get his groove back in 2009? There's some good news and some bad news. Let's look at the bad news first.

Roger's nemesis, Nadal, is the embodiment of all the monsters in Homer's epic poems, the Iliad and Odyssey. A great warrior needs a great dragon to slay. Hollywood's central casting couldn't dream up a more formidable foe than the Raging Bull from Mallorca. It's the white knight versus Godzilla. A modern match-up would pit Muhammad Ali against Joe Frazier. Yet, this isn't a struggle of good versus evil. It's the dramatic clash of wills and skills to make tennis history.

Rafa's 13-6 win-loss record over Raja is a bit deceptive. Ten of the 19 matches were played on clay which heavily favored Nadal. Despite this disadvantage, Fed still posts the second-best clay court record on the pro tour. When Rafa says Raja is the best player alive, he really means it.

Rafa beats Raja because he's bigger, stronger, tougher, younger and possesses a limitless will to win. Even the mighty Raja folds in five sets from the fierce force of Rafa's shots. More important, Nadal's right-to-left hand conversion makes him unique on tour. He has the power of two forehands. The only one with a similar profile in recent memory was the twin-fisted Monica Seles. She was the Rafa of her day in her battles with Steffi Graf, though Monica was not nearly as athletically gifted as Rafa. Nadal pounded Fed for more than three years in an unrelenting battle for the top spot in men's tennis. He simply wouldn't be denied. Fed's flagging resistance to the pressure cost him his crown and probably his health. The younger, stronger man prevailed.

Now, what can Roger do about this situation? Here's the good news as he enters the fray in 2009.

While Rafa has the edge on Raja in every athletic and age category, this margin is razor thin. Fed's mono scare widened this distance somewhat. Yet, Roger's win at the 2008 US Open over the great Scot, Andy Murray, should help him believe his illness is gone. Rafa racked up one of the finest years in tennis history and he added big improvements to his game in the off-season. But, the longevity clock is ticking against him. His style of play asks too much from his body. Eventually, the grinding will take its toll. It would be a miracle if he replicates or surpasses his wins from last year. While Fed is a very old 27 due to the miles on his body, Rafa is a very old 22, as well. Remember, Rafa has been pounding the pro circuit since the age of 15. But, Fed's balletic game is easier on his joints. So, his later years should be more productive than Nadal's.

Roger could improve his overall athletic prowess and stamina. This would take some additional sweat, but not a lot. Gil Reyes helped Andre Agassi play his best tennis in the second half of his career by boosting his conditioning to peak performance. He could do the same for Fed though at the moment Reyes is working as a coaching consultant for adidas (you saw how his efforts helped Fernando Verdasco Down Under).

Rafa's left arm forced players to shore up their runaround forehands cross-court. Raja has one of the best in the business. However, his illness strangled his footwork and shot execution. This year, Fed's footwork is back, which is a very good sign. He has more work to do to rebuild his confidence and locker room fear factor, but he's well on his way. Mono reduced the potency of his formidable forehand. Last year, Rafa's backhand cross-court was the best shot in the game. The key to Fed retrieving his crown is whether he can routinely pass Rafa again from both sides.

The unique nature of Rafa's challenge to Raja requires he do something special just to deal with him. In this regard, he should build a Rafa-Racquet. Fed doesn't use a dampener. He misses many returns due to the sheer force of Nadal's serve and the torque he puts on the ball. Federer probably doesn't like the feel he gets from a dampener. But, he has to overcome aesthetics to create an answer to the super Spaniard. It's reported Rafa uses very stiff strings with low tension. His stiff racquet has no leather grip — and a very small grip — wrapped by three overgrips. In effect, he uses a club, albeit a light-weight club he can whip through the hitting zone, not a racquet. Roger has to counter this stick if he wants to beat Nadal on a regular basis.

Federer uses a hybrid string, like many players on tour today. While this may work against the field, it may be a bad choice against Rafa. The combination of gut and nylon guarantees a loosening of string tension at different rates. When playing Rafa, every little issue is essential. It could spell the difference between making or missing critical shots. You have to fight fire with fire. Therefore, it's highly suggested he use either all gut or all nylon (preferably) in his racquets when playing Nadal. Also, he should string them a pound or two tighter for more control.

There's nothing more important than footwork in matches with Rafa. To enhance Fed's footwork, it's strongly suggested he have special tennis shoes made which are lighter than the ones he usually wears. When he puts on the new shoes, he'll have the feeling his footwork was crisper, which should boost his confidence. The lighter shoes would be helpful in long matches and steamy conditions.

Finally, Raja has to realize the tennis gods are on his side. His sweeter game will produce more majors for him because Rafa simply can't continue his rumbling style forever. Nadal has made changes to his game in an effort to shorten points and lengthen his career. But, the hands of time will be unkind to the Raging Bull, whose knees are already feeling the aches and pains from his physical style of play.

If he's patient, Roger will get his groove back soon. It's all just a matter of time.

Manila ESQ
02-03-2009, 06:10 PM
Anyone who saw AO final could tell that Roger was just nervous, almost too nervous. The guy who won against Roddick would've beaten Nadal, but the guy who showed up in the final was a broken man. Can that be fixed or should Roger just pray to avoid the likes of Nadal and Murray for the rest of his career?

But the Semis Roger was facing a different player compared to the Finals Roger. Taking away the mental aspect of the game, Andy's shots are just different from Nadal's. Andy hits the ball flat and has a very weak backhand. Semis Roger can easily hit winners from Andy's shots.

Finals Roger faced a completely different player. Rafa is a left hander, so this is a big difference already. Rafa's shots have a lot of topspin which makes it difficult for Roger to hit outright winners. Rafa retrieves a lot of balls (compared to Andy).

So, I think it is unfair to expect the Semis Roger to appear in that final match because it was not just possible.

SheepleBuster
02-03-2009, 06:14 PM
I think this is a good analysis (don´t know if it´s been posted elsewhere...):

http://www.tennisweek.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=6626294

How Roger Can Get His Groove Back

By Franklin L. Johnson

Monday, February 02, 2009

As Roger Federer enters the most important year of his brilliant career, he must have a lot on his mind. For the first time since 2004, he enters the new season chasing the top player on tour — and that chase is clearly more challenging after World No. 1 Rafael Nadal, who won a grueling five-set marathon match that spanned a record 5 hours, 14 minutes in the semifinals, shrugged off any lingering fatigue and gave Federer a gut-wrenching five-set loss in Sunday's Australian Open final.

The tears Federer shed show how much he cares and how haunted he has become by Nadal, who has scored five straight victories over the once-invincible Swiss to seize a 13-6 advantage in their head-to-head series.

Let's be honest: Roger Federer is now a vulnerable No. 2. For most players, this would be no disgrace. But for Fed, ranked among the greatest ever to play the game, this is a troubling development. The alarm bells are ringing somberly in the tennis media. They're playing a slow dirge instead of a lively tune. The articles are fearful of Fed's swift decline from god-like glory to earthly mortality. But, before we bronze Fed and set him on his well-deserved pedestal in the Hall of Fame, there's reason to believe reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Before you start rolling your eyes at the notion of a Roger revival — especially the day after Rafa reduced him to tears — hear me out.

Due to a mild case of mononucleosis he contracted at the end of 2007, Federer didn't get off to a great start last year. After reaching ten consecutive major finals, Fed fell to the surging Serbian, Novak Djokovic, in the Oz semifinal. Lingering effects of the disease cramped Roger's efforts to find his legendary form. Despite his struggles, he still reached the finals in the last three majors of 2008; competed in one of the best Wimbledon matches ever and won the US Open. Lesser players would surrender a body part to achieve these feats in a single career. Nevertheless, we measure Roger with a longer yard stick.

Federer faces three challenges this year: matching Pete Sampras' record 14 major wins; beating Rafa more times than Nadal beats him and snatching back the top spot in men's tennis. These are daunting tasks, but he can bank them all — even after Nadal ripped his heart out again in beating Federer for the fifth straight time in a final. In total, this will be a smaller burden than his illness-plagued Olympic season.

So, how can Roger get his groove back in 2009? There's some good news and some bad news. Let's look at the bad news first.

Roger's nemesis, Nadal, is the embodiment of all the monsters in Homer's epic poems, the Iliad and Odyssey. A great warrior needs a great dragon to slay. Hollywood's central casting couldn't dream up a more formidable foe than the Raging Bull from Mallorca. It's the white knight versus Godzilla. A modern match-up would pit Muhammad Ali against Joe Frazier. Yet, this isn't a struggle of good versus evil. It's the dramatic clash of wills and skills to make tennis history.

Rafa's 13-6 win-loss record over Raja is a bit deceptive. Ten of the 19 matches were played on clay which heavily favored Nadal. Despite this disadvantage, Fed still posts the second-best clay court record on the pro tour. When Rafa says Raja is the best player alive, he really means it.

Rafa beats Raja because he's bigger, stronger, tougher, younger and possesses a limitless will to win. Even the mighty Raja folds in five sets from the fierce force of Rafa's shots. More important, Nadal's right-to-left hand conversion makes him unique on tour. He has the power of two forehands. The only one with a similar profile in recent memory was the twin-fisted Monica Seles. She was the Rafa of her day in her battles with Steffi Graf, though Monica was not nearly as athletically gifted as Rafa. Nadal pounded Fed for more than three years in an unrelenting battle for the top spot in men's tennis. He simply wouldn't be denied. Fed's flagging resistance to the pressure cost him his crown and probably his health. The younger, stronger man prevailed.

Now, what can Roger do about this situation? Here's the good news as he enters the fray in 2009.

While Rafa has the edge on Raja in every athletic and age category, this margin is razor thin. Fed's mono scare widened this distance somewhat. Yet, Roger's win at the 2008 US Open over the great Scot, Andy Murray, should help him believe his illness is gone. Rafa racked up one of the finest years in tennis history and he added big improvements to his game in the off-season. But, the longevity clock is ticking against him. His style of play asks too much from his body. Eventually, the grinding will take its toll. It would be a miracle if he replicates or surpasses his wins from last year. While Fed is a very old 27 due to the miles on his body, Rafa is a very old 22, as well. Remember, Rafa has been pounding the pro circuit since the age of 15. But, Fed's balletic game is easier on his joints. So, his later years should be more productive than Nadal's.

Roger could improve his overall athletic prowess and stamina. This would take some additional sweat, but not a lot. Gil Reyes helped Andre Agassi play his best tennis in the second half of his career by boosting his conditioning to peak performance. He could do the same for Fed though at the moment Reyes is working as a coaching consultant for adidas (you saw how his efforts helped Fernando Verdasco Down Under).

Rafa's left arm forced players to shore up their runaround forehands cross-court. Raja has one of the best in the business. However, his illness strangled his footwork and shot execution. This year, Fed's footwork is back, which is a very good sign. He has more work to do to rebuild his confidence and locker room fear factor, but he's well on his way. Mono reduced the potency of his formidable forehand. Last year, Rafa's backhand cross-court was the best shot in the game. The key to Fed retrieving his crown is whether he can routinely pass Rafa again from both sides.

The unique nature of Rafa's challenge to Raja requires he do something special just to deal with him. In this regard, he should build a Rafa-Racquet. Fed doesn't use a dampener. He misses many returns due to the sheer force of Nadal's serve and the torque he puts on the ball. Federer probably doesn't like the feel he gets from a dampener. But, he has to overcome aesthetics to create an answer to the super Spaniard. It's reported Rafa uses very stiff strings with low tension. His stiff racquet has no leather grip — and a very small grip — wrapped by three overgrips. In effect, he uses a club, albeit a light-weight club he can whip through the hitting zone, not a racquet. Roger has to counter this stick if he wants to beat Nadal on a regular basis.

Federer uses a hybrid string, like many players on tour today. While this may work against the field, it may be a bad choice against Rafa. The combination of gut and nylon guarantees a loosening of string tension at different rates. When playing Rafa, every little issue is essential. It could spell the difference between making or missing critical shots. You have to fight fire with fire. Therefore, it's highly suggested he use either all gut or all nylon (preferably) in his racquets when playing Nadal. Also, he should string them a pound or two tighter for more control.

There's nothing more important than footwork in matches with Rafa. To enhance Fed's footwork, it's strongly suggested he have special tennis shoes made which are lighter than the ones he usually wears. When he puts on the new shoes, he'll have the feeling his footwork was crisper, which should boost his confidence. The lighter shoes would be helpful in long matches and steamy conditions.

Finally, Raja has to realize the tennis gods are on his side. His sweeter game will produce more majors for him because Rafa simply can't continue his rumbling style forever. Nadal has made changes to his game in an effort to shorten points and lengthen his career. But, the hands of time will be unkind to the Raging Bull, whose knees are already feeling the aches and pains from his physical style of play.

If he's patient, Roger will get his groove back soon. It's all just a matter of time.

Not a good one. Here is why. While I think Rafa's style will take its toll on his body, I don't think that will be until at least 3 years from now. People keep saying that Rafa is slowing down but he keeps getting better. I don't think his injuries are as serious. Rafa will be a big factor in majors for at least 3 more years if not more. If Roger can't find a way to beat Rafa, he'll probably win 1 or 2 more slams at most. Losing 3 out of 4 slam finals to Rafa should be gut wrenching and Fed was lucky Murray took out Nadal at the U.S. Open.

Can Roger beat Rafa? He has in the past, and I know he can do it again. But he needs to get on a roll and maybe beat Rafa on Grass to gain his confidence back. If Roger manages to beat Rafa on clay even at a small tournament, that should help confidence. Let's not forget that Roga was 6-8 against Rafa not a long time ago but has lost 5 straight. Roger needs to win the next one whether its on clay or ice.

Manila ESQ
02-03-2009, 06:16 PM
I think this is a good analysis (don´t know if it´s been posted elsewhere...):

http://www.tennisweek.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=6626294

How Roger Can Get His Groove Back

By Franklin L. Johnson

Monday, February 02, 2009

As Roger Federer enters the most important year of his brilliant career, he must have a lot on his mind. For the first time since 2004, he enters the new season chasing the top player on tour — and that chase is clearly more challenging after World No. 1 Rafael Nadal, who won a grueling five-set marathon match that spanned a record 5 hours, 14 minutes in the semifinals, shrugged off any lingering fatigue and gave Federer a gut-wrenching five-set loss in Sunday's Australian Open final.

The tears Federer shed show how much he cares and how haunted he has become by Nadal, who has scored five straight victories over the once-invincible Swiss to seize a 13-6 advantage in their head-to-head series.

Let's be honest: Roger Federer is now a vulnerable No. 2. For most players, this would be no disgrace. But for Fed, ranked among the greatest ever to play the game, this is a troubling development. The alarm bells are ringing somberly in the tennis media. They're playing a slow dirge instead of a lively tune. The articles are fearful of Fed's swift decline from god-like glory to earthly mortality. But, before we bronze Fed and set him on his well-deserved pedestal in the Hall of Fame, there's reason to believe reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Before you start rolling your eyes at the notion of a Roger revival — especially the day after Rafa reduced him to tears — hear me out.

Due to a mild case of mononucleosis he contracted at the end of 2007, Federer didn't get off to a great start last year. After reaching ten consecutive major finals, Fed fell to the surging Serbian, Novak Djokovic, in the Oz semifinal. Lingering effects of the disease cramped Roger's efforts to find his legendary form. Despite his struggles, he still reached the finals in the last three majors of 2008; competed in one of the best Wimbledon matches ever and won the US Open. Lesser players would surrender a body part to achieve these feats in a single career. Nevertheless, we measure Roger with a longer yard stick.

Federer faces three challenges this year: matching Pete Sampras' record 14 major wins; beating Rafa more times than Nadal beats him and snatching back the top spot in men's tennis. These are daunting tasks, but he can bank them all — even after Nadal ripped his heart out again in beating Federer for the fifth straight time in a final. In total, this will be a smaller burden than his illness-plagued Olympic season.

So, how can Roger get his groove back in 2009? There's some good news and some bad news. Let's look at the bad news first.

Roger's nemesis, Nadal, is the embodiment of all the monsters in Homer's epic poems, the Iliad and Odyssey. A great warrior needs a great dragon to slay. Hollywood's central casting couldn't dream up a more formidable foe than the Raging Bull from Mallorca. It's the white knight versus Godzilla. A modern match-up would pit Muhammad Ali against Joe Frazier. Yet, this isn't a struggle of good versus evil. It's the dramatic clash of wills and skills to make tennis history.

Rafa's 13-6 win-loss record over Raja is a bit deceptive. Ten of the 19 matches were played on clay which heavily favored Nadal. Despite this disadvantage, Fed still posts the second-best clay court record on the pro tour. When Rafa says Raja is the best player alive, he really means it.

Rafa beats Raja because he's bigger, stronger, tougher, younger and possesses a limitless will to win. Even the mighty Raja folds in five sets from the fierce force of Rafa's shots. More important, Nadal's right-to-left hand conversion makes him unique on tour. He has the power of two forehands. The only one with a similar profile in recent memory was the twin-fisted Monica Seles. She was the Rafa of her day in her battles with Steffi Graf, though Monica was not nearly as athletically gifted as Rafa. Nadal pounded Fed for more than three years in an unrelenting battle for the top spot in men's tennis. He simply wouldn't be denied. Fed's flagging resistance to the pressure cost him his crown and probably his health. The younger, stronger man prevailed.

Now, what can Roger do about this situation? Here's the good news as he enters the fray in 2009.

While Rafa has the edge on Raja in every athletic and age category, this margin is razor thin. Fed's mono scare widened this distance somewhat. Yet, Roger's win at the 2008 US Open over the great Scot, Andy Murray, should help him believe his illness is gone. Rafa racked up one of the finest years in tennis history and he added big improvements to his game in the off-season. But, the longevity clock is ticking against him. His style of play asks too much from his body. Eventually, the grinding will take its toll. It would be a miracle if he replicates or surpasses his wins from last year. While Fed is a very old 27 due to the miles on his body, Rafa is a very old 22, as well. Remember, Rafa has been pounding the pro circuit since the age of 15. But, Fed's balletic game is easier on his joints. So, his later years should be more productive than Nadal's.

Roger could improve his overall athletic prowess and stamina. This would take some additional sweat, but not a lot. Gil Reyes helped Andre Agassi play his best tennis in the second half of his career by boosting his conditioning to peak performance. He could do the same for Fed though at the moment Reyes is working as a coaching consultant for adidas (you saw how his efforts helped Fernando Verdasco Down Under).

Rafa's left arm forced players to shore up their runaround forehands cross-court. Raja has one of the best in the business. However, his illness strangled his footwork and shot execution. This year, Fed's footwork is back, which is a very good sign. He has more work to do to rebuild his confidence and locker room fear factor, but he's well on his way. Mono reduced the potency of his formidable forehand. Last year, Rafa's backhand cross-court was the best shot in the game. The key to Fed retrieving his crown is whether he can routinely pass Rafa again from both sides.

The unique nature of Rafa's challenge to Raja requires he do something special just to deal with him. In this regard, he should build a Rafa-Racquet. Fed doesn't use a dampener. He misses many returns due to the sheer force of Nadal's serve and the torque he puts on the ball. Federer probably doesn't like the feel he gets from a dampener. But, he has to overcome aesthetics to create an answer to the super Spaniard. It's reported Rafa uses very stiff strings with low tension. His stiff racquet has no leather grip — and a very small grip — wrapped by three overgrips. In effect, he uses a club, albeit a light-weight club he can whip through the hitting zone, not a racquet. Roger has to counter this stick if he wants to beat Nadal on a regular basis.

Federer uses a hybrid string, like many players on tour today. While this may work against the field, it may be a bad choice against Rafa. The combination of gut and nylon guarantees a loosening of string tension at different rates. When playing Rafa, every little issue is essential. It could spell the difference between making or missing critical shots. You have to fight fire with fire. Therefore, it's highly suggested he use either all gut or all nylon (preferably) in his racquets when playing Nadal. Also, he should string them a pound or two tighter for more control.

There's nothing more important than footwork in matches with Rafa. To enhance Fed's footwork, it's strongly suggested he have special tennis shoes made which are lighter than the ones he usually wears. When he puts on the new shoes, he'll have the feeling his footwork was crisper, which should boost his confidence. The lighter shoes would be helpful in long matches and steamy conditions.

Finally, Raja has to realize the tennis gods are on his side. His sweeter game will produce more majors for him because Rafa simply can't continue his rumbling style forever. Nadal has made changes to his game in an effort to shorten points and lengthen his career. But, the hands of time will be unkind to the Raging Bull, whose knees are already feeling the aches and pains from his physical style of play.

If he's patient, Roger will get his groove back soon. It's all just a matter of time.

This is total bull____! Any tennis fan could have written this. Analysis was very shallow. I've read more interesting posts from MTF.

Henry Chinaski
02-03-2009, 06:19 PM
It's pretty simple really, he need to stop the match being a constant battle between his backhand and Nadal's forehand. When it's like that it's very tough for him to win, even on grass and HC.

There's a number of obvious ways to stop this pattern:-

a) Run round the backhand to hit big forehands
b) Attack the net
c) Play the backhand down the line (particularly use the slice)
d) Use the dropshot

If Federer did each of these things even 5% more than he currently does he'd win on grass and HC.

Agree with this. The slice down the line looked very effective the other day and it's something he needs to work on. Even if Nadal runs around it and hits a fh it would have to be absolutely perfect or the whole court is left wide open.

He also needs to show Nadal's serve a bit more respect and just block it deep more often. He's a stubborn fucker who acts like blocking such a slow serve back is beneath him. This might make some sense if his top spin bh was an effective return and put Nadal on the backfoot, but it isn't and it doesn't.

He also needs to take more risks running around and hitting forehands on return. Occasionally he will get aced down the T and look like a complete tool but it's a risk he has to take more often to take Rafa out of his comfort zone.

Last but not least:

Grow a pair.

Corey Feldman
02-03-2009, 06:21 PM
he should switch to 2 handed BH and take some lessons from Andy Murray

Jaz
02-03-2009, 06:32 PM
he should switch to 2 handed BH and take some lessons from Andy Murray

I don't think it's possible at his age, it would ve very difficult to obtain the level of confidence and experience with the 2-handed backhand, and he certainly won't change it mid-season.

I think the single-handed backhand is the main reason he cannot beat Nadal. Period.

Nadal targets that wing 80% of the time, Federer rarely attacks on the bankhand. It leads to alot of shortball returns with little pace and he just gets chewed up. Everytime Nadal went to the forehand he lost the point.

IMO, the single-handed backhand is now dead, now and forever.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I don't think it's possible at his age, it would ve very difficult to obtain the level of confidence and experience with the 2-handed backhand, and he certainly won't change it mid-season.

I think the single-handed backhand is the main reason he cannot beat Nadal. Period.

Nadal targets that wing 80% of the time, Federer rarely attacks on the bankhand. It leads to alot of shortball returns with little pace and he just gets chewed up. Everytime Nadal went to the forehand he lost the point.

IMO, the single-handed backhand is now dead, now and forever.

Yes, because of one bad match-up a whole shot is dead. Nevermind the fact Federer has dominated every other player he's faced with the shot.

By your logic, the serve is dead because Roddick's doesn't work against Federer. :rolleyes:

MacTheKnife
02-03-2009, 06:37 PM
One of the reasons Fed-Nadal have such closely contested matches in that they feed each others need for rhythm. They each play the kind of tennis that the other likes to face. (with the only exception being the height of Nadals bounces to the Fed backhand) You take a guy like Sampras, he would NEVER let either of these guys establish that kind of rhythm, so the matches would take a completely different tone. He would force either of them out of rhythm instead of feeding it.
So unless Fed decides to break up Nadals rhythm instead of feeding it, I don't expect to see things change to much. He just appears to be to damn stubborn to break up the current trend with some changes in tactics.

Tankman
02-03-2009, 06:38 PM
Wow this thread has surprised me on two fronts:
1) Everyone seems to agree on what Fed should do
2) No tard wars/mocking (yet :p)

And for the record, I agree too. :) His mentality needs to go through a complete 360... and for that his game needs more consistency, he needs to change the way he plays Rafa and yes he needs a coach/sports psychologist/mentor/guide/anyone who's going to start talking sense and telling him what he doesn't want to hear. Because atm I doubt he's getting any of that.

Jaz
02-03-2009, 06:39 PM
Yes, because of one bad match-up a whole shot is dead. Nevermind the fact Federer has dominated every other player he's faced with the shot.

By your logic, the serve is dead because Roddick's doesn't work against Federer. :rolleyes:

Err, there is just an advantage to the two-handed backhand over the single-handed one. Especially on clay. IMO, the disadvantages of the two-handed BH is less it's benefits.

The roddick serve is not poor though. It's a strength, not a weakness. The Federer BH is a weakness. Other than mentally Federer has no other weaknesses. And unfortuantely for Federer Nadal is a perfect leftie moonballing his backhand.

It's obvious that Federer needs to switch, or be prepared to suffer a barrage of hits on it. (which he does against all other players).

GlennMirnyi
02-03-2009, 06:41 PM
I think this is a good analysis (don´t know if it´s been posted elsewhere...):

http://www.tennisweek.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=6626294

How Roger Can Get His Groove Back

By Franklin L. Johnson

Monday, February 02, 2009

As Roger Federer enters the most important year of his brilliant career, he must have a lot on his mind. For the first time since 2004, he enters the new season chasing the top player on tour — and that chase is clearly more challenging after World No. 1 Rafael Nadal, who won a grueling five-set marathon match that spanned a record 5 hours, 14 minutes in the semifinals, shrugged off any lingering fatigue and gave Federer a gut-wrenching five-set loss in Sunday's Australian Open final.

The tears Federer shed show how much he cares and how haunted he has become by Nadal, who has scored five straight victories over the once-invincible Swiss to seize a 13-6 advantage in their head-to-head series.

Let's be honest: Roger Federer is now a vulnerable No. 2. For most players, this would be no disgrace. But for Fed, ranked among the greatest ever to play the game, this is a troubling development. The alarm bells are ringing somberly in the tennis media. They're playing a slow dirge instead of a lively tune. The articles are fearful of Fed's swift decline from god-like glory to earthly mortality. But, before we bronze Fed and set him on his well-deserved pedestal in the Hall of Fame, there's reason to believe reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Before you start rolling your eyes at the notion of a Roger revival — especially the day after Rafa reduced him to tears — hear me out.

Due to a mild case of mononucleosis he contracted at the end of 2007, Federer didn't get off to a great start last year. After reaching ten consecutive major finals, Fed fell to the surging Serbian, Novak Djokovic, in the Oz semifinal. Lingering effects of the disease cramped Roger's efforts to find his legendary form. Despite his struggles, he still reached the finals in the last three majors of 2008; competed in one of the best Wimbledon matches ever and won the US Open. Lesser players would surrender a body part to achieve these feats in a single career. Nevertheless, we measure Roger with a longer yard stick.

Federer faces three challenges this year: matching Pete Sampras' record 14 major wins; beating Rafa more times than Nadal beats him and snatching back the top spot in men's tennis. These are daunting tasks, but he can bank them all — even after Nadal ripped his heart out again in beating Federer for the fifth straight time in a final. In total, this will be a smaller burden than his illness-plagued Olympic season.

So, how can Roger get his groove back in 2009? There's some good news and some bad news. Let's look at the bad news first.

Roger's nemesis, Nadal, is the embodiment of all the monsters in Homer's epic poems, the Iliad and Odyssey. A great warrior needs a great dragon to slay. Hollywood's central casting couldn't dream up a more formidable foe than the Raging Bull from Mallorca. It's the white knight versus Godzilla. A modern match-up would pit Muhammad Ali against Joe Frazier. Yet, this isn't a struggle of good versus evil. It's the dramatic clash of wills and skills to make tennis history.

Rafa's 13-6 win-loss record over Raja is a bit deceptive. Ten of the 19 matches were played on clay which heavily favored Nadal. Despite this disadvantage, Fed still posts the second-best clay court record on the pro tour. When Rafa says Raja is the best player alive, he really means it.

Rafa beats Raja because he's bigger, stronger, tougher, younger and possesses a limitless will to win. Even the mighty Raja folds in five sets from the fierce force of Rafa's shots. More important, Nadal's right-to-left hand conversion makes him unique on tour. He has the power of two forehands. The only one with a similar profile in recent memory was the twin-fisted Monica Seles. She was the Rafa of her day in her battles with Steffi Graf, though Monica was not nearly as athletically gifted as Rafa. Nadal pounded Fed for more than three years in an unrelenting battle for the top spot in men's tennis. He simply wouldn't be denied. Fed's flagging resistance to the pressure cost him his crown and probably his health. The younger, stronger man prevailed.

Now, what can Roger do about this situation? Here's the good news as he enters the fray in 2009.

While Rafa has the edge on Raja in every athletic and age category, this margin is razor thin. Fed's mono scare widened this distance somewhat. Yet, Roger's win at the 2008 US Open over the great Scot, Andy Murray, should help him believe his illness is gone. Rafa racked up one of the finest years in tennis history and he added big improvements to his game in the off-season. But, the longevity clock is ticking against him. His style of play asks too much from his body. Eventually, the grinding will take its toll. It would be a miracle if he replicates or surpasses his wins from last year. While Fed is a very old 27 due to the miles on his body, Rafa is a very old 22, as well. Remember, Rafa has been pounding the pro circuit since the age of 15. But, Fed's balletic game is easier on his joints. So, his later years should be more productive than Nadal's.

Roger could improve his overall athletic prowess and stamina. This would take some additional sweat, but not a lot. Gil Reyes helped Andre Agassi play his best tennis in the second half of his career by boosting his conditioning to peak performance. He could do the same for Fed though at the moment Reyes is working as a coaching consultant for adidas (you saw how his efforts helped Fernando Verdasco Down Under).

Rafa's left arm forced players to shore up their runaround forehands cross-court. Raja has one of the best in the business. However, his illness strangled his footwork and shot execution. This year, Fed's footwork is back, which is a very good sign. He has more work to do to rebuild his confidence and locker room fear factor, but he's well on his way. Mono reduced the potency of his formidable forehand. Last year, Rafa's backhand cross-court was the best shot in the game. The key to Fed retrieving his crown is whether he can routinely pass Rafa again from both sides.

The unique nature of Rafa's challenge to Raja requires he do something special just to deal with him. In this regard, he should build a Rafa-Racquet. Fed doesn't use a dampener. He misses many returns due to the sheer force of Nadal's serve and the torque he puts on the ball. Federer probably doesn't like the feel he gets from a dampener. But, he has to overcome aesthetics to create an answer to the super Spaniard. It's reported Rafa uses very stiff strings with low tension. His stiff racquet has no leather grip — and a very small grip — wrapped by three overgrips. In effect, he uses a club, albeit a light-weight club he can whip through the hitting zone, not a racquet. Roger has to counter this stick if he wants to beat Nadal on a regular basis.

Federer uses a hybrid string, like many players on tour today. While this may work against the field, it may be a bad choice against Rafa. The combination of gut and nylon guarantees a loosening of string tension at different rates. When playing Rafa, every little issue is essential. It could spell the difference between making or missing critical shots. You have to fight fire with fire. Therefore, it's highly suggested he use either all gut or all nylon (preferably) in his racquets when playing Nadal. Also, he should string them a pound or two tighter for more control.

There's nothing more important than footwork in matches with Rafa. To enhance Fed's footwork, it's strongly suggested he have special tennis shoes made which are lighter than the ones he usually wears. When he puts on the new shoes, he'll have the feeling his footwork was crisper, which should boost his confidence. The lighter shoes would be helpful in long matches and steamy conditions.

Finally, Raja has to realize the tennis gods are on his side. His sweeter game will produce more majors for him because Rafa simply can't continue his rumbling style forever. Nadal has made changes to his game in an effort to shorten points and lengthen his career. But, the hands of time will be unkind to the Raging Bull, whose knees are already feeling the aches and pains from his physical style of play.

If he's patient, Roger will get his groove back soon. It's all just a matter of time.

Good analysis? This figures among the worst, most pathetic texts ever written. A guy who believes shock dampeners have any effect on a match must be preposterously retarded.

Who pays this idiot to write? Must be a much bigger idiot.

Tankman
02-03-2009, 07:02 PM
Yes, because of one bad match-up a whole shot is dead. Nevermind the fact Federer has dominated every other player he's faced with the shot.

By your logic, the serve is dead because Roddick's doesn't work against Federer. :rolleyes:

It's different. What's Roddick going to do? Start doing Chang donkey-drops?

Obviously then Roddick doesn't really have much of an option even if his serve could be considered a weakness against Federer.

But Federer can switch or try to use a 2HBH. Granted it's a reversal of 27 years of training and experience and again it's something he might not like. But it's something that, if he has to do it to beat Rafa, he is capable of doing.

Tankman
02-03-2009, 07:03 PM
Good analysis? This figures among the worst, most pathetic texts ever written. A guy who believes shock dampeners have any effect on a match must be preposterously retarded.

Who pays this idiot to write? Must be a much bigger idiot.

:shrug:

His analysis... it's like complaining about a few splinters when there's a bloody great wooden pole sticking through your torso :o :lol:

duong
02-03-2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, because of one bad match-up a whole shot is dead. Nevermind the fact Federer has dominated every other player he's faced with the shot.

This goes far further than the Federer-Nadal's case.

This seems to be the evolution.

duong
02-03-2009, 07:05 PM
But it's something that, if he has to do it to beat Rafa, he is capable of doing.

No, not at 27 years old.

Igaarg
02-03-2009, 10:03 PM
There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative. I wonder ... do the little annoying things that Nadal does like delaying the coin toss, the eternity he takes between points/serves, his persistent wedgie, the absolute positioning of his drink bottles, Uncle Tony's coaching, the way he jumps around the court like a monkey... the constant barrage of shots hit to Fed's backhand..... do these things contribute to the mental woes Federer has against Nadal?.

Federer needs a coach and a sports psychologist asap... Obviously his game is of the highest quality but every player needs a little help and his mental game (against Nadal) well, that is a scientific experiment.

I agree in everything you said. And I think that a very good example is the 2008 Hamburg final.

Crazy Girl
02-05-2009, 06:33 PM
There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative. I wonder ... do the little annoying things that Nadal does like delaying the coin toss, the eternity he takes between points/serves, his persistent wedgie, the absolute positioning of his drink bottles, Uncle Tony's coaching, the way he jumps around the court like a monkey...:eek::eek::eek::eek: the constant barrage of shots hit to Fed's backhand..... do these things contribute to the mental woes Federer has against Nadal?.It's true!! Especially the drink bottles!!:eek::eek:

Federer needs a coach and a sports psychologist asap... Obviously his game is of the highest quality but every player needs a little help and his mental game (against Nadal) well, that is a scientific experiment.;):):wavey:

duong
02-05-2009, 06:54 PM
There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative. I wonder ... do the little annoying things that Nadal does like delaying the coin toss, the eternity he takes between points/serves, his persistent wedgie, the absolute positioning of his drink bottles, Uncle Tony's coaching, the way he jumps around the court like a monkey... the constant barrage of shots hit to Fed's backhand..... do these things contribute to the mental woes Federer has against Nadal?.

Federer needs a coach and a sports psychologist asap... Obviously his game is of the highest quality but every player needs a little help and his mental game (against Nadal) well, that is a scientific experiment.

Yes, Nadal is completely crazy,

but in our crazy world, "normal people" need some psychological help to suffer crazy ones :lol:

... because crazy people are more and more powerful :
even one was president of the USA ! :haha:

Actually I totally understand what you say because I also need psychological help to watch this pile reactor and his crazy habits on court. Already I shut off the sound because I don't want to hear his shouts :haha:
I'm tired only by watching him :lol:

MalwareDie
02-05-2009, 07:12 PM
There's something about Federer's body language against Nadal that is very negative. I wonder ... do the little annoying things that Nadal does like delaying the coin toss, the eternity he takes between points/serves, his persistent wedgie, the absolute positioning of his drink bottles, Uncle Tony's coaching, the way he jumps around the court like a monkey... the constant barrage of shots hit to Fed's backhand..... do these things contribute to the mental woes Federer has against Nadal?.


You forgot about his timeouts and his disgusting grunts.

Stephan
02-05-2009, 08:20 PM
Federer has not dominant problem with Nadal,
His dominant problem is his current psychological & physical condition:
during last five years he is trying to win every tournament...
Nobody could stay so strong under everyday’s pressure... He could...
However now he is already older... He is not that Federer from 2005-2007 anymore... He cannot play five sets on the same level anymore ...:(

Bounty Hunter
02-05-2009, 08:23 PM
Federer's fans are as much of a cry baby as he is.

ORGASMATRON
02-05-2009, 08:30 PM
See this is why my thread about the death of tennis should have been allowed, clearly there is still people who dont get it. It all started with the slowness of the grass at wimbledon. Was it not for that Roger would now have had 6 wimbledons in a row and the '09 AO as well. There is no getting around the fact that Rafa is very lucky that the grass is slow and that Roger is being done in bigtime. I mean Roger would have won about 10 wimbledons in a row was it not for the change of the grass, and Nadal would forever be stuck with only french open titles. Im going to write a whole blog post about this so that there can be no misunderstandings about this, people need the truth.

Concerning what Roger can do now to beat Rafa is the same old story. Go to the net more. Its interesting you should bring up Agassi and Gil Reyes, that might not be a bad idea, but not sure if Roger would consider that. There is definitely a mental problem there, im not going to deny that. Ive said many times that Roger doesnt have killer instinct like Rafa and that is whats costing him. That is one of the few areas where Sampras was better then Roger, he had killer instinct. I dont know if that is something Roger can learn, the guy is a sensitive soul as we saw in the finishing ceremony at the AO. And that is one of the reasons he is so popular.

Stephan
02-05-2009, 08:31 PM
Federer has not dominant problem with Nadal,
His dominant problem is his current psychological & physical condition:
during last five years he is trying to win every tournament...
Nobody could stay so strong under everyday’s pressure... He could...
However now he is already older... He is not that Federer from 2005-2007 anymore... He cannot play five sets on the same level anymore ...:(

Federer's fans are as much of a cry baby as he is.

i'm (absollutely) not his fan, fan :D

duong
02-05-2009, 08:39 PM
Federer's fans are as much of a cry baby as he is.

I would rather say that we are too old to watch a pile reactor like Nadal :

at least that's my case, and several people my age or older I know.

On the contrary, Nadal is beloved by many young people :

you young people have no problem with somebody who can never stop moving and who grunts like a monkey :lol:

Actually I remember when I was younger I liked Seles as well (except for my ears :lol:) : now I'm too old for that,

I prefer variety, elegance and touch.

Nadal is for you modern young people, educated with video games and hyperactive :lol:

Lee
02-05-2009, 08:41 PM
It all started with the slowness of the grass at wimbledon. Was it not for that Roger would now have had 6 wimbledons in a row and the '09 AO as well. There is no getting around the fact that Rafa is very lucky that the grass is slow and that Roger is being done in bigtime.

IF the grass at Wimbledon is faster, Roger might have lost to Roddick in 2004 and/or 2005. Who knows?

TankingTheSet
02-05-2009, 09:02 PM
I agree with the comments about the problem being psychological, you can just see how tense Federer is when he plays Nadal. And when a chance opens up for him he starts to panic.

For example, sometimes in a match Nadal takes a little gas off the peddle because he cannot play at 100% intensity all the time. When this happens Federer's reaction is to panic and try to hit risky winners early in the rally while precisely at these moments a more patient approach would be far more succesful.

Crazy Girl
02-05-2009, 09:03 PM
Federer's fans are as much of a cry baby as he is.And I'm proud of that.

Crazy Girl
02-05-2009, 09:08 PM
I would rather say that we are too old to watch a pile reactor like Nadal :

at least that's my case, and several people my age or older I know.

On the contrary, Nadal is beloved by many young people :

you young people have no problem with somebody who can never stop moving and who grunts like a monkey :lol:

Actually I remember when I was younger I liked Seles as well (except for my ears :lol:) : now I'm too old for that,

I prefer variety, elegance and touch.

Nadal is for you modern young people, educated with video games and hyperactive :lol::worship::yeah::hatoff::lol::spit:

Igaarg
02-05-2009, 09:11 PM
IF the grass at Wimbledon is faster, Roger might have lost to Roddick in 2004 and/or 2005. Who knows?

Wimbledon grass has been slowing down from years. If you watch older matches, the court had like and 8 for serve and volley. Now is marked behind the baseline. Before no way someone could win Wimbledon playing behind the baseline.

Manila ESQ
02-05-2009, 09:14 PM
I would rather say that we are too old to watch a pile reactor like Nadal :

at least that's my case, and several people my age or older I know.

On the contrary, Nadal is beloved by many young people :

you young people have no problem with somebody who can never stop moving and who grunts like a monkey :lol:

Actually I remember when I was younger I liked Seles as well (except for my ears :lol:) : now I'm too old for that,

I prefer variety, elegance and touch.

Nadal is for you modern young people, educated with video games and hyperactive :lol:

Old, young, they're all in the mind. It all boild down to preference. If you like exciting and explosive players, then Nadal is for you. If you like the classic and clinical brand of tennis, then it's Roger. I'm quite old in calendar years (but young in mind and heart), and I'm for Rafa.

Lee
02-05-2009, 09:23 PM
Wimbledon grass has been slowing down from years. If you watch older matches, the court had like and 8 for serve and volley. Now is marked behind the baseline. Before no way someone could win Wimbledon playing behind the baseline.

I'm a fan of Sampras ;)

Myrre
02-05-2009, 09:30 PM
Why doesn't he have a coach?

Mirka is his coach.

duong
02-05-2009, 09:44 PM
Old, young, they're all in the mind. It all boild down to preference. If you like exciting and explosive players, then Nadal is for you. If you like the classic and clinical brand of tennis, then it's Roger. I'm quite old in calendar years (but young in mind and heart), and I'm for Rafa.

On a statistical point of view, I can assure you that Nadal is very popular among young people and children,

and Federer is more appreciated among "family parents".

Many children imitate Nadal in everything he does, I've seen some in tennis clubs in France : I can tell you it's incredible !! including "vamos" everywhere (in France) :lol:

... but on the whole you can see that Federer is a little bit more popular ... because adults don't see it with these eyes.

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 12:08 AM
I think by and large Fed is loved by fat-or-old dudes who are suffering from either impotence (Fed saw 4 F Open and 1 A Open trophies just 20 cm away but could not do anything except sobbing in vain) or rapid climax (Fed reached his peak very fast - having won 13 majors, being awarded the so-called The GOAT title before 28 - but still, he's not been able to help his legion of maniac fans rreeaallyy achieve orgasm cause anytime attempting to approach the FO or the 14th major he choked pathetically in front of Rafa).

Now, return to the topic of the thread, IMO, Nadal was born to be Fed's nemesis, the only way for Fed to 'solve' Rafa is undergoing a series of surgeries to change his gender. I'm sure as hell after that he would win 4 consecutive Women's single Grand Slams.

Just my 2 cents.

l_mac
02-06-2009, 12:15 AM
Shut up, duong.

Your sweeping generalisations are both tiresome and insulting.

maf
02-06-2009, 12:32 AM
Wimbledon grass has been slowing down from years. If you watch older matches, the court had like and 8 for serve and volley. Now is marked behind the baseline. Before no way someone could win Wimbledon playing behind the baseline.

:secret: Agassi

Forehander
02-06-2009, 12:37 AM
There's nothing he can do about the left and right combo of Nadal's. His backhand is too weak and the game he possess rely fully on timing. That's probably the worst match-up I've seen in professional tennis.

Forehander
02-06-2009, 12:40 AM
On a statistical point of view, I can assure you that Nadal is very popular among young people and children,

and Federer is more appreciated among "family parents".

Many children imitate Nadal in everything he does, I've seen some in tennis clubs in France : I can tell you it's incredible !! including "vamos" everywhere (in France) :lol:

... but on the whole you can see that Federer is a little bit more popular ... because adults don't see it with these eyes.

This is amongst the most stupid thing I've read since joining this forum.

duong
02-06-2009, 12:48 AM
Shut up, duong.

Your sweeping generalisations are both tiresome and insulting.

Ok not all old men are impotent and fat like my friends and me :tears:, you are right I made a generalization :devil:

duong
02-06-2009, 12:53 AM
This is amongst the most stupid thing I've read since joining this forum.

Thank you :D

There's nothing I've said in this forum, which I believe more.

I've not invented all these children imitating Nadal.

cmurray
02-06-2009, 01:10 AM
Doesn't anyone wonder what would have happened if Nadal had gone into that final 100%? Because no matter what Federer claims, Nadal's semi clearly took a toll on him. That five setter might have been a three set beatdown. Maybe it's time to face the fact that Rafa's tennis is just flat-out surpassing Roger's. Just because his tennis is prettier doesn't make it better. :shrug:

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 01:36 AM
Doesn't anyone wonder what would have happened if Nadal had gone into that final 100%? Because no matter what Federer claims, Nadal's semi clearly took a toll on him. That five setter might have been a three set beatdown. Maybe it's time to face the fact that Rafa's tennis is just flat-out surpassing Roger's. Just because his tennis is prettier doesn't make it better. :shrug:
QFT!
Had Rafa been allowed as much time to rest as Fed had the result of the final would've been 6 - 3 6 - 2 6 - 1 (one or two bagels would've been possible but too far-fetched) and Fed would most likely burst out crying loudly instead of just sobbing.
Keep in mind the Olympic motto is 'Faster, Higher, Stronger', and not 'Prettier, Sissier, Weepier'. So, Nadal with his power tennis, though might not be pleasant to watch to fans of the so-called artistic tennis, fit the Olympic motto perfectly. He's obviously a model professional athlete.

luie
02-06-2009, 01:40 AM
Doesn't anyone wonder what would have happened if Nadal had gone into that final 100%? Because no matter what Federer claims, Nadal's semi clearly took a toll on him. That five setter might have been a three set beatdown. Maybe it's time to face the fact that Rafa's tennis is just flat-out surpassing Roger's. Just because his tennis is prettier doesn't make it better. :shrug:
Maybe, but its hard for a player like rafa to avoid these long drawn out matches because he simply has little or no offence.

l_mac
02-06-2009, 01:49 AM
Doesn't anyone wonder what would have happened if Nadal had gone into that final 100%? Because no matter what Federer claims, Nadal's semi clearly took a toll on him. That five setter might have been a three set beatdown. Maybe it's time to face the fact that Rafa's tennis is just flat-out surpassing Roger's. Just because his tennis is prettier doesn't make it better. :shrug:
Great point, cmurray.

It really should have been a beatdown.
Maybe, but its hard for a player like rafa to avoid these long drawn out matches because he simply has little or no offence.

:spit:

FlameOn
02-06-2009, 01:59 AM
I don't think Federer would drop the pride enough to admit that he has a problem beating Nadal. Even after AO final, he made it very clear that he lost the match rather than Rafa winning it, and that "not always the better player wins" in 5 set matches. :rolleyes:

Bernard Black
02-06-2009, 01:59 AM
Doesn't anyone wonder what would have happened if Nadal had gone into that final 100%? Because no matter what Federer claims, Nadal's semi clearly took a toll on him. That five setter might have been a three set beatdown. Maybe it's time to face the fact that Rafa's tennis is just flat-out surpassing Roger's. Just because his tennis is prettier doesn't make it better. :shrug:

What a load of bull.

a) It was Nadal's fault his semi went to 5 sets, Verdasco wasn't given a head-start, he was better than Nadal for two sets.

b) Nadal hadn't dropped a set before the semi, and then had a day's rest before the final. He's a 22 year old man, in his prime, yet people are saying he should be exhausted at those circumstances? Give me a break. If he had played consecutive five-setters then that argument would hold water, but since that's not the case it is :bs:

Besides, it's a grand slam final. Tiredness should never be an excuse, players should be able to get through it on adrenaline alone.

l_mac
02-06-2009, 02:06 AM
players should be able to get through it on adrenaline alone.

Like Rafa did :rocker2:

Vamos!

Bernard Black
02-06-2009, 02:12 AM
Like Rafa did :rocker2:

Vamos!

Not this time. He just had to turn up, Federer handed it to him on a platter. :)

l_mac
02-06-2009, 02:15 AM
Not this time. He just had to turn up, Federer handed it to him on a platter. :)

Of course :sport: :dance:

wilmar
02-06-2009, 02:18 AM
I don't think Federer would drop the pride enough to admit that he has a problem beating Nadal. Even after AO final, he made it very clear that he lost the match rather than Rafa winning it, and that "not always the better player wins" in 5 set matches. :rolleyes:

No need to even talk about a 5 setter.
According to Rogelia, there shouldn't even have been a 5th set. :rolleyes:
He should've won the 1st set :rolleyes:
He should've won the 3rd set :rolleyes:
He should've won it in straight sets :rolleyes:

Anyway, since Zvonareva has cleaned up her crying game act, Federina is now officially proclaimed the Zvonareva-incarnate.

cmurray
02-06-2009, 02:30 AM
What a load of bull.

a) It was Nadal's fault his semi went to 5 sets, Verdasco wasn't given a head-start, he was better than Nadal for two sets.

b) Nadal hadn't dropped a set before the semi, and then had a day's rest before the final. He's a 22 year old man, in his prime, yet people are saying he should be exhausted at those circumstances? Give me a break. If he had played consecutive five-setters then that argument would hold water, but since that's not the case it is :bs:

Besides, it's a grand slam final. Tiredness should never be an excuse, players should be able to get through it on adrenaline alone.

what a ridiculous post.

a) I never said Verdasco had an advantage over Nadal. :retard:
b) You cannot honestly be suggesting that playing a 5.25 hour match not 48 hours prior to the final had no effect on Nadal's energy level. At the risk of repeating myself...:retard:

Your last sentence goes beyond :retard: and straight to :smash:. Newsflash. HE DID GET THROUGH. :retard:

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 11:32 AM
IF the grass at Wimbledon is faster, Roger might have lost to Roddick in 2004 and/or 2005. Who knows?

I seriously doubt that. If the grass was faster Roger would have served and voleyed and won a lot easier. Roddick had a chance because the courts were slower, he's not a good serve and volley player.

LinkMage
02-06-2009, 11:36 AM
By stopping shitting his pants when he sees Nadull on the other side of the court. :shrug:

Tankman
02-06-2009, 11:38 AM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

No comment

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 12:23 PM
He doesnt need to solve the puzzle, or more accurately he doesnt deserve to. All that has to happen is that Wimbledon needs to speed up their courts again, that is if they want to save tennis.

Tankman
02-06-2009, 01:09 PM
I think I raised this with Gu in the "tennis is dead thread" back in July

but what does tennis need saving from again?

the purists may complain all they like, but if the crowds love see Nadal ballbash, he's not going to change :shrug: :p

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 01:29 PM
I think I raised this with Gu in the "tennis is dead thread" back in July

but what does tennis need saving from again?

the purists may complain all they like, but if the crowds love see Nadal ballbash, he's not going to change :shrug: :p

Balance is always good, right now tennis is favoring the base liners. The serve and volleyers isnt getting much assistance which means tennis is becoming one dimensional. The crowds can like ballbashing all they want but if tennis is unbalanced its not good. All styles of players needs to be gieven a chance.

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 01:30 PM
Besides tennis is killing one of its all time greats and greatest embassadors in Federer with this BS.

Tankman
02-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Balance is always good, right now tennis is favoring the base liners. The serve and volleyers isnt getting much assistance which means tennis is becoming one dimensional. The crowds can like ballbashing all they want but if tennis is unbalanced its not good. All styles of players needs to be gieven a chance.

Of course balance is good. I agree. And I enjoy the fact that I am actually having a non-brutal, polite, civil discussion with a poster for once this evening :o :lol:

Anyway, the way I see it, tennis is a dynamic sport. IMHO with Nadal and Fed, it is stagnant as Fed hasn't stepped up and tried something different against Nadal.

To make an analogy, pro tennis is like natural selection in biology. Survival of the fittest. They used to be S&Vers, but in today's game they are baseliners. Again IMHO as the game changes, this will change too. A hybrid player will probably fill the void, much like the ch 7 commentators said.

Thats my 2 cents

Bernard Black
02-06-2009, 01:45 PM
what a ridiculous post.

a) I never said Verdasco had an advantage over Nadal. :retard:
b) You cannot honestly be suggesting that playing a 5.25 hour match not 48 hours prior to the final had no effect on Nadal's energy level. At the risk of repeating myself...:retard:

Your last sentence goes beyond :retard: and straight to :smash:. Newsflash. HE DID GET THROUGH. :retard:

Thanks for the retard smileys there, very mature style of posting you have there :)

You know exactly what I meant, the tiredness excuse was ready made for if Nadal lost. He was perfectly fit for the final and to only lose two sets in six matches was ideal preparation for it.

Puschkin
02-06-2009, 01:46 PM
to answer the question:
1. by admitting that there is one.

And believe me, it gives me no joy to say that.

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 01:54 PM
Of course balance is good. I agree. And I enjoy the fact that I am actually having a non-brutal, polite, civil discussion with a poster for once this evening :o :lol:

Anyway, the way I see it, tennis is a dynamic sport. IMHO with Nadal and Fed, it is stagnant as Fed hasn't stepped up and tried something different against Nadal.

To make an analogy, pro tennis is like natural selection in biology. Survival of the fittest. They used to be S&Vers, but in today's game they are baseliners. Again IMHO as the game changes, this will change too. A hybrid player will probably fill the void, much like the ch 7 commentators said.

Thats my 2 cents

Well im not gona argue with the fact that Roger needs to step up and try something new against Nadal. That is something i have said before. But still i feel Roger has been done in by the change of surface speed at Wimbledon. Honestly can anyone tell me why they slowed it down in the first place? Serve and volley tennis was something unique that reqiuired immense skill, a skill Rafa can only dream of. And besides it was great for tennis because it was different from what happened on all the other surfaces. I say it again, had the courts been the way it used to be Roger would have won something like 8-10 Wimbledons. But i dont want to sound like sour grapes. This isnt just about Federer, it concerns the whole of tennis. Tennis is becoming one dimensional and boring with only baseliners slugging it out form the back of the court.

nestingus
02-06-2009, 01:55 PM
I think the main reason why Federer can't beat Nadal at the moment is because he is making far too many unforced errors. Against lesser players he can rely on his consistent serve and superb forehand to win him matches, but against Nadal that's not enough. I remember less than two years ago Federer could match anyone from the baseline, or he could switch to a more aggressive style to close out a point, or he would move in to the net at will. His balance was perfect.

At the moment he just looks confused. He looks impatient, always looking to close the points out early and making far too many mistakes. When he does move in it's often at the wrong time and it's evident that people like Murray and Nadal are good enough to pass him at the net.

Maybe he's trying too hard. For him not to clinch a single Masters series last year was definitely a surprise. If he's only thinking about Grand Slams that the wrong approach. He needs the hunger to win everything he plays, and at the moment I genuinly don't think he has that.

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 02:02 PM
Fed: 64+ hours to rest after an easy 2.5 hour match.
Rafa: 38 hours to rest after a breathtaking 5+ hour slugfest.
-------------------------------------------------
=> Rafa was 'perfectly fit' for the final!?!?!

Wah, this is the first time I've seen such a briliant rocket scientific reasoning! ROTFLMAO!

Tom_Bombadil
02-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Thanks for the retard smileys there, very mature style of posting you have there :)

You know exactly what I meant, the tiredness excuse was ready made for if Nadal lost. He was perfectly fit for the final and to only lose two sets in six matches was ideal preparation for it.

Yeah, we know Nadal was perfectly fit for the final- indeed, he was fitter than Roger cause he played 5.25 hours two days prior- cause you say that. ;) Don't worry, man, we believe in all things you say with faith.

Don't even question what others have said, even Nadal said, after the match.:rolleyes:

Marc23
02-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Well im not gona argue with the fact that Roger needs to step up and try something new against Nadal. That is something i have said before. But still i feel Roger has been done in by the change of surface speed at Wimbledon. Honestly can anyone tell me why they slowed it down in the first place? Serve and volley tennis was something unique that reqiuired immense skill, a skill Rafa can only dream of. And besides it was great for tennis because it was different from what happened on all the other surfaces. I say it again, had the courts been the way it used to be Roger would have won something like 8-10 Wimbledons. But i dont want to sound like sour grapes. This isnt just about Federer, it concerns the whole of tennis. Tennis is becoming one dimensional and boring with only baseliners slugging it out form the back of the court.

Because you don't get a chance to volley...even before that Nadal got to two Wimbledon finals and was very close one time...and their matches are always so close,few balls decide the match...and that final could got another way,just like last years final could go either way...few balls decided...

manuel84
02-06-2009, 04:00 PM
-hit deep and flat
-use acute angles
-be aggressive with the FH when given the chance to run around the BH
-don't get nervous when a Nadal shot goes to the BH, take the ball early, adjust the grip when ideal to do so, hit soft, deep returns vs. the lefty serve

Igaarg
02-06-2009, 04:05 PM
I believe that Federer still believes he can beat Nadal with the same tactics, besides the mental thing he has with him (I can´t explain some of his UE in other way). He has to try new things and work in his confidence and get a couch.

cmurray
02-06-2009, 04:05 PM
-hit deep and flat
-use acute angles
-be aggressive with the FH when given the chance to run around the BH
-don't get nervous when a Nadal shot goes to the BH, take the ball early, adjust the grip when ideal to do so, hit soft, deep returns vs. the lefty serve

:hug: A genuine answer.

andylovesaustin
02-06-2009, 04:06 PM
I really think Roger can learn a lot from Rafa.

One thing I really admire about Rafa is that he just seems to accept situations the way they are. Like with the back to back fives setters, Rafa said something like "Well, it is the way it is, so I have to out there and try my best." And that's what he does. I think Rafa is an excellent example of someone living in the moment. When he gets on court, he is present in the moment, seemingly not thinking of past defeats, future accolades, physical exhaustion, the unfairnesses of the world, or how badly he played the last set or point.

So Roger can't be bothered by the change of surfaces or any other factor beyond his control. I think outside of playing more aggressively and cleanly against Rafa, Roger MUST learn to play better in the moment, taking one point at a time, particularly when he plays Rafa. I think Roger gets distracted by his own success or maybe even the potential for failure(?) sometimes, when he just needs to settle down and play to the best of capability.

If he does that, then I really think he'd beat Rafa, but it's gonna be a war. Injury notwithstanding, It will always tough against Rafa because because nobody will ever defeat him mentally. A player might be Rafa physically, but Rafa's mental toughness is here to stay.

I really think Roger is having some difficulty because in spite of his words to the contrary, Rafa is unwilling to be defeated by Roger's legacy. Rafa respects--even emulates Rogers, but he will never "let" him win a tennis match, and he will never be defeated, per se.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 04:14 PM
a) It was Nadal's fault his semi went to 5 sets, Verdasco wasn't given a head-start, he was better than Nadal for two sets.


i hear you...

you could just see in nadal's retreat for the match that the strategy he took into the match was... 'ok, i sit back here... this madrid mug roast himself sooner or later... fernando silly player... alway self destruct, no..? ' and let fernando bring it...

and bring it he did... and nearly unlocked the puzzle with 5 sets of heavy assualt...

heh heh... nadal wont do that again with verdasco on hard...

it was that typically reactive mentality that nadal went in with that allowed verdasco to find a perfect rhythm that became the rhythm of the entire match...

i think that first set in the final was probably the key in failing the puzzle on sunday... up a break, yet, two key points followed by a double fault to lose the game betrayed federers mentality... p!ssweak...

Caerula Sanguis
02-06-2009, 04:15 PM
Fed has to get over the fear of losing. I can do it, I don't know why he can't.

duong
02-06-2009, 04:51 PM
I really think Roger can learn a lot from Rafa.

One thing I really admire about Rafa is that he just seems to accept situations the way they are. Like with the back to back fives setters, Rafa said something like "Well, it is the way it is, so I have to out there and try my best." And that's what he does. I think Rafa is an excellent example of someone living in the moment. When he gets on court, he is present in the moment, seemingly not thinking of past defeats, future accolades, physical exhaustion, the unfairnesses of the world, or how badly he played the last set or point.

So Roger can't be bothered by the change of surfaces or any other factor beyond his control. I think outside of playing more aggressively and cleanly against Rafa, Roger MUST learn to play better in the moment, taking one point at a time, particularly when he plays Rafa. I think Roger gets distracted by his own success or maybe even the potential for failure(?) sometimes, when he just needs to settle down and play to the best of capability.

I've seen Federer play enough to know that he had exactly that same mentality, even when he was losing.

I've seen him like that in hundreds of situations where he played badly, was behind, and yet he just played one point after another.

It's possible to question if he still has that mentality, if you consider his match against Murray in Doha where he seemed to be bothered after losing some opportunities.

But anyway, you can argue however you want, but the mental problems only come from the technical and physical difficulties he has, especially against Nadal.

If he was confident as before, all you say about mental approach wouldn't even have to be mentioned.

I'm very surprised now at people thinking that Federer is very bad mentally after all he has done and proved on that issue !!
He's still the best in tight tie-breaks for instance, saves many breakpoints, and so on.


If he does that, then I really think he'd beat Rafa, but it's gonna be a war. Injury notwithstanding, It will always tough against Rafa because because nobody will ever defeat him mentally. A player might be Rafa physically, but Rafa's mental toughness is here to stay.

I really think Roger is having some difficulty because in spite of his words to the contrary, Rafa is unwilling to be defeated by Roger's legacy. Rafa respects--even emulates Rogers, but he will never "let" him win a tennis match, and he will never be defeated, per se.

Nadal is mentally strong,

but if he had only that, Federer would really have no problem.

This is only a small part of the question.

The biggest part is a technical problem

... and basically first that question : is Federer better than Nadal at effective tennis ? And considering that they have a bad match-up ?

Because everything I read about all these "mental" is based on that prejudice that Federer "should" win.

Anyway, a complex is never born like that, from nothing :
at first there's another problem ... and a complex can develop afterwards, but the first problem is not that
... and it means that even when Federer had a good mental, good physics ... (I remember on clay in 2006), he could not win against him while he could win against all of the other players.

I don't understand why people think he's so weak mentally because he loses to the number 1 in the world, and after everything he's done in his carreer from the mental side.

And he cried even when he won actually, then all the machos spreading their stupid convictions are just completely out of the point.

Federer and Nadal are just different, but saying that Federer is weak mentally is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

He makes UE, that's far more true. And even against Simon :lol:

andylovesaustin
02-06-2009, 04:59 PM
I've seen Federer play enough to know that he had exactly that same mentality, even when he was losing.

I've seen him like that in hundreds of situations where he played badly, was behind, and yet he just played one point after another.

It's possible to question if he still has that mentality, if you consider his match against Murray in Doha where he seemed to be bothered after losing some opportunities.

But anyway, you can argue however you want, but the mental problems only come from the technical and physical difficulties he has, especially against Nadal.

If he was confident as before, all you say about mental approach wouldn't even have to be mentioned.

I'm very surprised now at people thinking that Federer is very bad mentally after all he has done and proved on that issue !!
He's still the best in tight tie-breaks for instance, saves many breakpoints, and so on.



Nadal is mentally strong,

but if he had only that, Federer would really have no problem.

This is only a small part of the question.

The biggest part is a technical problem

... and basically first that question : is Federer better than Nadal at effective tennis ? And considering that they have a bad match-up ?

Because everything I read about all these "mental" is based on that prejudice that Federer "should" win.

Anyway, a complex is never born like that, from nothing :
at first there's another problem ... and a complex can develop afterwards, but the first problem is not that
... and it means that even when Federer had a good mental, good physics ... (I remember on clay in 2006), he could not win against him while he could win against all of the other players.

I don't understand why people think he's so weak mentally because he loses to the number 1 in the world, and after everything he's done in his carreer from the mental side.

And he cried even when he won actually, then all the machos spreading their stupid convictions are just completely out of the point.

Federer and Nadal are just different, but saying that Federer is weak mentally is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

He makes UE, that's far more true. And even against Simon :lol:


Compared to other players, Roger is mentally stronger. But those other players haven't beaten him in a grand slam. Isn't Rafa the ONLY player to have beaten Roger in a grand slam?

So yes, I do agree that some of it is technical. But I think a lot of it is mental. Don't get me wrong, with any other player Roger is going to have a mental advantage. But not with Rafa.

It's the matchup that's killing Roger. And part of Rafa's strength is his mental strength. Granted, he waits around from people to make mistakes. That's a large part of his game. However, somehow Rafa has been able to win because he knows he can.

On paper, Roger should have the game to beat Rafa. But due to a combination of factors, Roger is making more mistakes, and Rafa is winning--his way.

Roger has to really go in and play his game. And his game is usually perfect tennis, you know? That's what I mean that he has to play point by point.. a step at a time. And not get rattled by the prospect of losing.

the graduate
02-06-2009, 05:15 PM
ditch his fat ass girlfriend

duong
02-06-2009, 05:17 PM
On paper, Roger should have the game to beat Rafa. .

For that I don't agree ... because the game is too easy on paper and you don't make any UE at all :lol:

Roger has to really go in and play his game. And his game is usually perfect tennis, you know?

Not perfect no, for instance his backhand is clearly not perfect, and he's used at making UE.

Nobody's perfect, everyone has a good game of his own, all different.

star
02-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Isn't Rafa the ONLY player to have beaten Roger in a grand slam?

You must mean in a GS final. Federer has been beaten in grand slam tournaments by several players.

It's the matchup that's killing Roger.
So Roger said. :) I believe his exact words were "God, it's killing me."

And part of Rafa's strength is his mental strength.

True
Granted, he waits around from people to make mistakes.

This is a misconception. Nadal doesn't "wait" for people to make mistakes, he pressures them into mistakes and takes advantage of mistakes to hit searing winners.

However, somehow Rafa has been able to win because he knows he can.

Another more complete way to say this is that Nadal knows he has the game, the fitness, and the acumen to win. He's not just some indominable machine. He has confidence because of his preparation.


And his game is usually perfect tennis, you know?

Federer is a fabulous tennis player, but he does not have a perfect game. He has weakness that can be exploited by a player with the skills and the game to do so. It's very difficult. Federer is good at protecting his weaknesses -- that's part of what makes him so good. However, part of his lack of confidence against Nadal, is that he knows Nadal can get to his weaknesses. Not all of the time, but enough so that Federer worries.

Erica86
02-06-2009, 05:35 PM
Technically speaking, I really think that Federer is stronger.
Phisycally speaking, it is obvious that Nadal is stronger.
What is it then the deciding feature? Nadal's mind is the strongest I know for any sportsperson of his age.
How he can solve Rafa's puzzle? He needs a brainwash.

peterparker
02-06-2009, 05:35 PM
But anyway, you can argue however you want, but the mental problems only come from the technical and physical difficulties he has, especially against Nadal.



Good post. Even if he solved his current malfunctions vs. nadal (1 set 08 hamburg, 3rd set 08 FO, 5th set 09 AO), he would just get back to where he was. Still struggling to find a solution to nadal pummeling his backhand.

10nisfan
02-06-2009, 05:37 PM
Not this time. He just had to turn up, Federer handed it to him on a platter. :)


...instead it's Ro-Goat who got the platter... :lol:

andylovesaustin
02-06-2009, 05:39 PM
You must mean in a GS final. Federer has been beaten in grand slam tournaments by several players.


So Roger said. :) I believe his exact words were "God, it's killing me."



True


This is a misconception. Nadal doesn't "wait" for people to make mistakes, he pressures them into mistakes and takes advantage of mistakes to hit searing winners.



Another more complete way to say this is that Nadal knows he has the game, the fitness, and the acumen to win. He's not just some indominable machine. He has confidence because of his preparation.




Federer is a fabulous tennis player, but he does not have a perfect game. He has weakness that can be exploited by a player with the skills and the game to do so. It's very difficult. Federer is good at protecting his weaknesses -- that's part of what makes him so good. However, part of his lack of confidence against Nadal, is that he knows Nadal can get to his weaknesses. Not all of the time, but enough so that Federer worries.
Yeah, I have to agree about Rafa's game. I guess I meant more Rafa is not a serve and volly type of guy. I love Rafa. I actually was rooting for Rafa because I wanted to see him win a hard court Grand Slam.

But that's not to say I don't think Roger can't beat Rafa. And as far as Roger's perfect game, from what I can tell from his press conferences, he keeps saying how badly he played. And I guess from my perspective, then if he wants to beat Rafa he needs to quite playing badly in his mind. So I guess for him, this would be near perfect tennis. And that's not to say anyone is perfect. But Roger probably can't beat Rafa in a Grand Slam at least by playing less than his capability, if that makes any sense?

Anyway.. been fun.. gotta to go...................

10nisfan
02-06-2009, 05:45 PM
as what the say sometimes... it's the EGO that can bring down some people... i think that's what Ro-Goat's main issue...

if he can get past His Ego, and Humble himself and don't think About Making History, just play every point in that moment, maybe he won't shit his pants when playing with Rafito...

duong
02-06-2009, 05:46 PM
Technically speaking, I really think that Federer is stronger.
Phisycally speaking, it is obvious that Nadal is stronger.
What is it then the deciding feature? Nadal's mind is the strongest I know for any sportsperson of his age.
How he can solve Rafa's puzzle? He needs a brainwash.

A typical example of the bullshit which is said about that (even by so-called "experts" then you can be excused :D)

By the way, physically speaking, the inly reason why one could say that Nadal is stronger is because Federer is getting older.

But apart from that, his physics is certainly one of the greatest of this sport ever.

duong
02-06-2009, 05:50 PM
if he can get past His Ego, and Humble himself and don't think About Making History, just play every point in that moment, maybe he won't shit his pants when playing with Rafito...

Yes very good point :

I think that's one of Nadal's great mental strengths that he will never shit in his pants,

since when you see his face when serving, and the way he never stops moving, he's probably awfully constipated :haha:

Erica86
02-06-2009, 05:53 PM
A typical example of the bullshit which is said about that (even by so-called "experts" then you can be excused :D)

By the way, physically speaking, the inly reason why one could say that Nadal is stronger is because Federer is getting older.

But apart from that, his physics is certainly one of the greatest of this sport ever.

You don't have to be an expert to know that Nadal is physically stronger than Federer. And I am not talking about age. Rafa reaches impossible balls for any other tennis players. If you do not see that, you should check your eyes.

Marc23
02-06-2009, 06:00 PM
Compared to other players, Roger is mentally stronger. But those other players haven't beaten him in a grand slam. Isn't Rafa the ONLY player to have beaten Roger in a grand slam?

So yes, I do agree that some of it is technical. But I think a lot of it is mental. Don't get me wrong, with any other player Roger is going to have a mental advantage. But not with Rafa.

It's the matchup that's killing Roger. And part of Rafa's strength is his mental strength. Granted, he waits around from people to make mistakes. That's a large part of his game. However, somehow Rafa has been able to win because he knows he can.

On paper, Roger should have the game to beat Rafa. But due to a combination of factors, Roger is making more mistakes, and Rafa is winning--his way.

Roger has to really go in and play his game. And his game is usually perfect tennis, you know? That's what I mean that he has to play point by point.. a step at a time. And not get rattled by the prospect of losing.

Last player who beat Federer other than Nadal in a Grand Slam was Djokovic!

Serenidad
02-06-2009, 09:41 PM
>(

Igaarg
02-06-2009, 10:03 PM
ditch his fat ass girlfriend

Tennis needs more people like you.

Duncan
02-06-2009, 10:06 PM
Personally i think it's all in the head.

Federer has the game to beat Nadal he just doesn't believe it anymore.

l_mac
02-06-2009, 10:14 PM
Personally i think it's all in the head.

Federer has the game to beat Nadal he just doesn't believe it anymore.

:lol:

Nadal has the game to beat Federer, that is for sure.

Bounty Hunter
02-06-2009, 10:24 PM
Yes very good point :

I think that's one of Nadal's great mental strengths that he will never shit in his pants,

since when you see his face when serving, and the way he never stops moving, he's probably awfully constipated :haha:


You should really consider removing the o from your name because that is exactly what you are.. DUNG...

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 10:27 PM
Last player who beat Federer other than Nadal in a Grand Slam was Djokovic!

yeah for sure... its a great stat... it would suggest the feild know federer perhaps weakened mentally... but, i mean, who on earth sees themselves doing that for a win...? federer maybe we weaker mentally right now, but, only to one guy... i still think he has the edge in gs action... i sat and watched Berdych and Fededer inside rod laver... the picture of clamness was there... the outward appearance that nothing is going wrong... and for sure... berdych didnt believe he had the hand to win the pot... folded after two raises... total bluff...

andylovesaustin
02-06-2009, 10:31 PM
Last player who beat Federer other than Nadal in a Grand Slam was Djokovic!

Oops. I forgot about him! I didn't see the match, actually.

Why do you think Fed lost that one? And how did Fed respond to being beaten?

Was it in the final?

r3d_d3v1l_
02-06-2009, 11:00 PM
Federer is one of the best tennis players, there is no doubt about that. But that doesn´t make him unhuman.
More than the wins, the losses have a huge impact in the confidence of Federer. Even the injuries represent an important role in this matter, in others sports like football, when a player is injured badly, it will be very hard for him to step in the field with the same confidence, with the same attitude. Of course that there are exceptions, players that have great motivation no matter what happens. Maybe the mononucleose (dunno if it is typped right lol) had a major role in 2008´s Federer career and contributed to Federer´s lack of confidence and in the most important part: consistance.

When he played against Murray in the US Open final, even tough he got some great shots, in the final games you could clearly see how nervous was Federer. And this is man who has 12 GS´s, it´s not his first GS final. He only wanted to end the match and celebrate, he got anxious and missed one or two matchpoints. And one thing that proves how much he wanted the victory, was his celebration.

The way Federer played against Nadal in the AO final also shows that Federer needs imeddiatly to win a match agains the Spanish. I´ve never seen a Federer with such fear of missing and fear of losing. Of course the way Nadal exploits Federe´s weaknesses only worse the hole situation.

So...Federer must use all the deck, all the cards, but he doesn´t use it. I don´t know why but Federer desire is to to win Nadal´s in his own game, win him in an baseline clash but he can´t and he mustn´t do it. And this is where a coach could be very helpfull, advising Federer, making the homework, analising his opponents, he would be much more confortable about his own value. Being more agressive, using different shots, different approaches.

Nadal´s Puzzle isn´t the problem, the problem is Federer´s Mental Puzzle.

vincayou
02-07-2009, 12:01 AM
It's mental. Apart from clay, he never received a beatdown from Nadal. He just lost two heartbreaking 5 setters, but technically he still has the tools to beat Nadal.
He should first acknowledge that he's not the favourite anymore against Nadal on any surface. That should relieve some pressure. I'm not sure that he's in that state of mind. Roger is in denial.

He could have won AO. And I think he would have if he hadn't Wimbledon and Roland Garros losses in the back of his head. He missed opportunities in every set.

On clay, he can forget about it though.

morningglory
02-07-2009, 12:40 AM
It's mental. Apart from clay, he never received a beatdown from Nadal. He just lost two heartbreaking 5 setters, but technically he still has the tools to beat Nadal.
He should first acknowledge that he's not the favourite anymore against Nadal on any surface. That should relieve some pressure. I'm not sure that he's in that state of mind. Roger is in denial.

He could have won AO. And I think he would have if he hadn't Wimbledon and Roland Garros losses in the back of his head. He missed opportunities in every set.

On clay, he can forget about it though.

oh, that will never happen :lol: As long as Nadal keeps feeding him with comments like "Roger is the greatest" blah blah blah

Igaarg
02-07-2009, 01:19 AM
It's mental. Apart from clay, he never received a beatdown from Nadal. He just lost two heartbreaking 5 setters, but technically he still has the tools to beat Nadal.
He should first acknowledge that he's not the favourite anymore against Nadal on any surface. That should relieve some pressure. I'm not sure that he's in that state of mind. Roger is in denial.

He could have won AO. And I think he would have if he hadn't Wimbledon and Roland Garros losses in the back of his head. He missed opportunities in every set.

On clay, he can forget about it though.

Both have to act different about "the favourite" thing:
Federer: Don´t complain if Murray, Djoko or Dabul are consider more favourite than you.
Nadal: stop with the "Federer is the favourite, no?","Federer is the greatest, no?"

Tankman
02-07-2009, 05:25 AM
Well im not gona argue with the fact that Roger needs to step up and try something new against Nadal. That is something i have said before. But still i feel Roger has been done in by the change of surface speed at Wimbledon. Honestly can anyone tell me why they slowed it down in the first place? Serve and volley tennis was something unique that reqiuired immense skill, a skill Rafa can only dream of. And besides it was great for tennis because it was different from what happened on all the other surfaces. I say it again, had the courts been the way it used to be Roger would have won something like 8-10 Wimbledons. But i dont want to sound like sour grapes. This isnt just about Federer, it concerns the whole of tennis. Tennis is becoming one dimensional and boring with only baseliners slugging it out form the back of the court.

I agree with everything you've said

I like S+V too. I loved watching Rafter, Sampras, and even that one-dimensional server Ivanisevic. I grew up watching Wimbledon late at night into the wee hours of the morning. I lived and died by Rafter's five set epics with Henman, Sampras and THAT ONE with Ivanisevic

I don't think those epics will ever be replicated and that saddens me. But I guess you have to move on with the times, and if this is the way the game is going, I'll live.

My biggest objection is the commercialisation of the game and how much it is beholden to the bigwigs of the corporate world and the media. The game would be much purer w/o them. However it would not exist w/o them :shrug: So we're stuck. If we want pure tennis, we get no sponsorship, unless some billionaire is kind enough and rich enough to fund pure tennis :lol: