Pronounced Joke-ovic NOT Jock-ovic [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Pronounced Joke-ovic NOT Jock-ovic

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 12:35 AM
First post folks!

I like to read these forums but I've been to lazy to register and post until I have been sufficiently irritated by Patrick Mcenroe and Dick Enberg with mispronouncing the #3 player's name at the AO. What is laughable (and infuriating) is that they both agreed that Novak likes his name pronounced with the "Joke" pronunciation, not "Jock," but then reverted to the Jock pronunciation a minute later!

Never have I heard anyone pronounce his name as JOCK before these two. If you read this my dear commentators, please put the effort into pronouncing his name as he would like it. His status deserves it. Lastly, check to see if the booth you sit in has a fresh supply of oxygen, or if it is recycled air. Air depleted of oxygen is known to impair cognitive functions.

xargon
02-03-2009, 12:43 AM
Yes, commentators are going out of their way to now say Saff-ina instead of Sa-feena. Demen-cheva instead of Dementee-eva

bluefork
02-03-2009, 12:44 AM
First post folks!

I like to read these forums but I've been to lazy to register and post until I have been sufficiently irritated by Patrick Mcenroe and Dick Enberg with mispronouncing the #3 player's name at the AO. What is laughable (and infuriating) is that they both agreed that Novak likes his name pronounced with the "Joke" pronunciation, not "Jock," but then reverted to the Jock pronunciation a minute later!

Never have I heard anyone pronounce his name as JOCK before these two. If you read this my dear commentators, please put the effort into pronouncing his name as he would like it. His status deserves it. Lastly, check to see if the booth you sit in has a fresh supply of oxygen, or if it is recycled air. Air depleted of oxygen is known to impair cognitive functions.

Actually, I thought the last word on it was that he wanted it pronounced JOCK-ovic :shrug:.

But you're not wrong about PMac and Enberg.

federernadalfan
02-03-2009, 12:44 AM
:lol: djoke seems right

GlennMirnyi
02-03-2009, 12:48 AM
I think Fakervic is still the best way to call him. No problems about pronunciation.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 12:50 AM
Actually, I thought the last word on it was that he wanted it pronounced JOCK-ovic :shrug:.

But you're not wrong about PMac and Enberg.

Hi bluefork. I speak Serbian fluently, and it is JOKE.

John Mcenroe pronounces it correctly. Please bring him back. I am in agony and so is Novak when he watches the matches with the current legion of doom commentating and tripping up and correcting themselves continually. These names are not Chinese after all with different semantics.

out_here_grindin
02-03-2009, 12:56 AM
and the weird thing is, is that I am sure that they haven't always pronounced it this way.

oranges
02-03-2009, 12:57 AM
It' not JOKE :o It's a short "o" as in jock. DJO-ko-vich as the ATP site says.

Fiberlight1
02-03-2009, 12:58 AM
Who cares? Is it affecting his play?

Probably... he's not the strongest mentally.

bluefork
02-03-2009, 12:59 AM
Who cares? Is it affecting his play?

Probably... he's not the strongest mentally.

:lol:

~Maya~
02-03-2009, 01:05 AM
It is DJO-ko-vich

Some commentator in Australia kept calling him Yokovich :o

Thanos
02-03-2009, 01:07 AM
:lol:

you laugh when someone make fun of novak and cry like a baby when someone says something about federer.

your such a hypocrite! typical fedtroll behaviour

croat123
02-03-2009, 01:10 AM
it's neither the english joke nor jock. the o is shorter than the o in jock

the graduate
02-03-2009, 01:11 AM
whatever

dusk
02-03-2009, 01:13 AM
The way Brad Gilbert calls Simon is disturbing, least to say lol

out_here_grindin
02-03-2009, 01:14 AM
My brother and I have a running joke. Whenever Djokovic makes a big error, we say "You gotta be Djoking me" (with the D being pronounced)

Fiberlight1
02-03-2009, 01:16 AM
you laugh when someone make fun of novak and cry like a baby when someone says something about federer.

your such a hypocrite! typical fedtroll behaviour

Isn't that normal? Defend your own player and talk shit about your least favorites...

And you're saying you don't?

jcreback
02-03-2009, 01:18 AM
Until the Aussie Open last year, the ESPN guys called him Joke-ovic. During then, they said that Novak had asked them to start pronouncing it with Jock-ovic. They actually talked about it in studio with Fowler for a few minutes. It is his wishes, not their deal.

Thanos
02-03-2009, 01:18 AM
Isn't that normal? Defend your own player and talk shit about your least favorites...

And you're saying you don't?

read bluefork essays in federer crying like little bitch thread, then you see what i mean.

Swagger&Poise
02-03-2009, 01:19 AM
It is actually 'Jock-ovic', as opposed to 'Joke-ovic'.

Americans have a tendency to pronounce the European 'o' in syllables such as 'djo-' in Novak's name in a similar way to 'joke' when it should be as it is in 'sock', in the same manner as Australians have a tendency to pronounce the European 'a' in syllables such as 'van-' (like ivanovic) in a similar way to 'apple' when it should be as it is in 'hahn'.

The correct way to pronounce a name is how the name would be said in the country that the player is from. Often, because such names do not come from English-speaking countries, English-speaking commentators struggle with the pronounciation and end up saying it in a way that is comfortable to themselves.

In Australia (can't speak for America, Canada etc), all I will say is that we're very lucky to have a channel like SBS that ensures journalistic credibility when pronouncing names in the way that they are supposed to be pronounced in their country of origin. The mainstream channels here are hopeless.

meihaditalab
02-03-2009, 01:19 AM
cause he's a "joke"...

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:20 AM
It is DJO-ko-vich

Some commentator in Australia kept calling him Yokovich :o

You are right, it is DJO. The reason I wrote JOKE is because it is easier for non-former-Yugoslavians to pronounce it and it is almost indistinguishable from the correct way. Insisting on the Serbian pronunciation with the "D" in front of "JO" from anglo-saxons will just have them revert to JOCK again in frustration.

Laba
02-03-2009, 01:22 AM
I've always thought it was "Jock" and at this AO, all the commentators were pronouncing it "Joke". I don't like the guy but hearing it just annoyed the fuck out of me.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:23 AM
It is DJO-ko-vich

Some commentator in Australia kept calling him Yokovich :o

It is actually 'Jock-ovic', as opposed to 'Joke-ovic'.

Americans have a tendency to pronounce the European 'o' in syllables such as 'djo-' in Novak's name in a similar way to 'joke' when it should be as it is in 'sock', in the same manner as Australians have a tendency to pronounce the European 'a' in syllables such as 'van-' (like ivanovic) in a similar way to 'apple' when it should be as it is in 'hahn'.

The correct way to pronounce a name is how the name would be said in the country that the player is from. Often, because such names do not come from English-speaking countries, English-speaking commentators struggle with the pronounciation and end up saying it in a way that is comfortable to themselves.

In Australia, all I will say is that we're very lucky to have a channel like SBS that ensures journalistic credibility when pronouncing names in the way that they are pronounced in their country of origin. The mainstream channels are hopeless.

Are you Serbian? Trust me, take it from a native Serbian speaker it is JOKE not JOCK. Did you read my previous post?

bluefork
02-03-2009, 01:25 AM
you laugh when someone make fun of novak and cry like a baby when someone says something about federer.

your such a hypocrite! typical fedtroll behaviour

When did I cry like a baby, please?

Besides, what Fiberlight said was funny. If someone had said something funny about Federer, I would have laughed too.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:26 AM
I've always thought it was "Jock" and at this AO, all the commentators were pronouncing it "Joke". I don't like the guy but hearing it just annoyed the fuck out of me.

Huh? Did you watch the 2009 AO and not a rerun? It was always JOCK JOCK JOCK. And that dude, should annoy you. Don't get mad at those who pronounce it correctly mate.

jcreback
02-03-2009, 01:27 AM
Are you Serbian? Trust me, take it from a native Serbian speaker it is JOKE not JOCK. Did you read my previous post?

As I said, ESPN said last year that Novak himself asked them to say Jock-ovic.

oranges
02-03-2009, 01:28 AM
You are right, it is DJO. The reason I wrote JOKE is because it is easier for non-former-Yugoslavians to pronounce it and it is almost indistinguishable from the correct way. Insisting on the Serbian pronunciation with the "D" in front of "JO" from anglo-saxons will just have them revert to JOCK again in frustration.

The issue with JOKE is not the DJ/J part, both of which I would assume warrants the same pronunciation, the first constant of the joke or jazz or what have you. The vowel, however, is nothing like the one in joke, which is actually a diphthong. It's a short "o", with the ones in hot, jock or lot being the closest approximation.

~Maya~
02-03-2009, 01:33 AM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_CfmlY5l8_M&feature=related

1:44 correct pronunciation

BalkanBoy
02-03-2009, 01:35 AM
Joe-ko-vich could work too. The commentators are not bad actually way better than this specimen with Ivanisevic ;)


0Yr4dk2pxUA

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:38 AM
The issue with JOKE is not the DJ/J part, both of which I would assume warrants the same pronunciation, the first constant of the joke or jazz or what have you. The vowel, however, is nothing like the one in joke, which is actually a diphthong. It's a short "o", with the ones in hot, jock or lot being the closest approximation.

I think you are really complicating this issue for non Serbian speaking people. Again, it is more correct to pronounce it as JOKE (yes with regards to the O sound) then with JOCK.

What you are asking these people to pronounce is as impossible as having them distinguish between the Serbian/Croatian versions of "Pogača" (which by the way is great bread). They do not need to learned the subtleties or difference between these "C" sounds, just the horrible offending vowels. "BRE"

jcreback
02-03-2009, 01:40 AM
I think you are really complicating this issue for non Serbian speaking people. Again, it is more correct to pronounce it as JOKE (yes with regards to the O sound) then with JOCK.

What you are asking these people to pronounce is as impossible as having them distinguish between the Serbian/Croatian versions of "Pogača" (which by the way is great bread). They do not need to learned the subtleties or difference between these "C" sounds, just the horrible offending vowels. "BRE"

How is it more correct to pronounce it "Joke" when Novak himself asked ESPN to call him "Jock"? Even if you are speaking from the perspective of the language, the individual requested a pronunciation, so ESPN is following his wishes and are thus in the right.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:41 AM
Joe-ko-vich could work too. The commentators are not bad actually way better than this specimen with Ivanisevic ;)


0Yr4dk2pxUA

BRAVO ! Yes Joe-ko-vich would be great!

cornellboy
02-03-2009, 01:47 AM
How is it more correct to pronounce it "Joke" when Novak himself asked ESPN to call him "Jock"? Even if you are speaking from the perspective of the language, the individual requested a pronunciation, so ESPN is following his wishes and are thus in the right.

oracle is doing an A+ job of ignoring you

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 01:47 AM
How is it more correct to pronounce it "Joke" when Novak himself asked ESPN to call him "Jock"? Even if you are speaking from the perspective of the language, the individual requested a pronunciation, so ESPN is following his wishes and are thus in the right.

It would be great to see Novak request this in video form which is inconceivable. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt if that is what you recall. Peace.

~Maya~
02-03-2009, 01:50 AM
How is it more correct to pronounce it "Joke" when Novak himself asked ESPN to call him "Jock"? Even if you are speaking from the perspective of the language, the individual requested a pronunciation, so ESPN is following his wishes and are thus in the right.

I remember watching that on ESPN I could not believe it because it was wrong. Novak himself never pronounced it that way. In Jock, you have a sound that is between a and o. There is no such sound in Serbian. Joe offers the most correct pronunciation of the sound o in Djokovic

jcreback
02-03-2009, 01:53 AM
Buried in this article

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/news/story?id=3410790

" "The balls are bouncing, they're smaller and that makes them much, much faster," Djokovic explained. "The conditions are different at Roland Garros than in Hamburg and Rome, because here it's pretty fast."

Djokovic caused a minor stir recently when he asked the media to change the way they pronounce his name. Previously, he said, it was Joke-o-vic. Now, he wants it said this way: Jock-o-vic.

A jock sounds much more formidable than a joke."

FaceyFacem
02-03-2009, 01:55 AM
How is it more correct to pronounce it "Joke" when Novak himself asked ESPN to call him "Jock"? Even if you are speaking from the perspective of the language, the individual requested a pronunciation, so ESPN is following his wishes and are thus in the right.

Am I the only one that thinks he's asked the US television to say "jock" as a marketing ploy? I mean, the youtube clip with serbian commentators saying his last name is the last word to me that it's much more "joke" sounding than "jock".

But if you were marketing a world-class player who was supposed to be a contender for the top spot at some point, wouldn't you prefer his name to sound more like a word that means "good athlete" than "ridiculous knave"? Remember how Douchevina changed her name to Dushevina, presumably to avoid having "douche" in her name?

El Legenda
02-03-2009, 01:56 AM
who cares, i call him novak yousuckyoufakinglittlebitch ...close enough.

FaceyFacem
02-03-2009, 01:56 AM
Buried in this article

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/news/story?id=3410790

" "The balls are bouncing, they're smaller and that makes them much, much faster," Djokovic explained. "The conditions are different at Roland Garros than in Hamburg and Rome, because here it's pretty fast."

Djokovic caused a minor stir recently when he asked the media to change the way they pronounce his name. Previously, he said, it was Joke-o-vic. Now, he wants it said this way: Jock-o-vic.

A jock sounds much more formidable than a joke."

I think that pretty much sums up my above post

jcreback
02-03-2009, 01:58 AM
I think that pretty much sums up my above post

That may be true. I'm just arguing that ESPN is doing what the player asked, right or wrong.

oranges
02-03-2009, 02:02 AM
I think you are really complicating this issue for non Serbian speaking people. Again, it is more correct to pronounce it as JOKE (yes with regards to the O sound) then with JOCK.

What you are asking these people to pronounce is as impossible as having them distinguish between the Serbian/Croatian versions of "Pogača" (which by the way is great bread). They do not need to learned the subtleties or difference between these "C" sounds, just the horrible offending vowels. "BRE"

How am I complicating it if I give the closest English sounds as an example. Neither Croatian nor Serbian have diphthongs at all (the vowel that sound as two melting into one to put it simply, as in English joke, go, or main and bait as different examples), so how joke could be the closest only you know. (What can I say, it's my profession) Besides, it has been pointed out he personally asked for the other pronunciation.

kalisita
02-03-2009, 02:04 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he's asked the US television to say "jock" as a marketing ploy? I mean, the youtube clip with serbian commentators saying his last name is the last word to me that it's much more "joke" sounding than "jock".

But if you were marketing a world-class player who was supposed to be a contender for the top spot at some point, wouldn't you prefer his name to sound more like a word that means "good athlete" than "ridiculous knave"? Remember how Douchevina changed her name to Dushevina, presumably to avoid having "douche" in her name?

As jcreback posted before ESPN/American commentators did call him "joke" before last year's FO. During the FO Fowler, Cahill, McEnroe, etc. all talked about how his people told them to say it "jock" instead of "joke." And I remember thinking it was for marketing purposes, that they didn't like all the (D)joke references, like The Djoker or the Djokester.

Also, commentators are generally given cards that tell them how to pronounce player's names. Many times, the pronounciations are made as English friendly as possible for marketing purposes. It's not the commentators faults often times.

leng jai
02-03-2009, 02:08 AM
This is all Jim Courier's fault.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 02:14 AM
Am I the only one that thinks he's asked the US television to say "jock" as a marketing ploy? I mean, the youtube clip with serbian commentators saying his last name is the last word to me that it's much more "joke" sounding than "jock".

But if you were marketing a world-class player who was supposed to be a contender for the top spot at some point, wouldn't you prefer his name to sound more like a word that means "good athlete" than "ridiculous knave"? Remember how Douchevina changed her name to Dushevina, presumably to avoid having "douche" in her name?

This is an interesting possibility and if it is true, I would lose respect for Joe-kov-ic. Anything is possible in the world of business however.

The ESPN article says the following:

"Djokovic caused a minor stir recently when he asked the media to change the way they pronounce his name. Previously, he said, it was Joke-o-vic. Now, he wants it said this way: Jock-o-vic."

This has to be a mistake as it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard but heck we from the former Yugoslavia are not playing with a full deck to begin with so anything is possible.

The youtube clip at 1:24, enunciated by a Serbian commentator in Serbia no less, shows that Joe-kov-ic is the way to go if one is true to the language, nothwithstanding Novak's possible request for JOCK, which I still find hard to believe considering his patriotism and love for his native language and culture.

BalkanBoy
02-03-2009, 02:22 AM
who cares, i call him novak yousuckyoufakinglittlebitch ...close enough.

Yeah but you were born and raised to hate Serbs so we don't care what you call or think of him.

~Maya~
02-03-2009, 02:23 AM
This is an interesting possibility and if it is true, I would lose respect for Joe-kov-ic. Anything is possible in the world of business however.

The ESPN article says the following:

"Djokovic caused a minor stir recently when he asked the media to change the way they pronounce his name. Previously, he said, it was Joke-o-vic. Now, he wants it said this way: Jock-o-vic."

This has to be a mistake as it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard but heck we Serbs are not playing with a full deck to begin with so...

The youtube clip at 1:24, enunciated by a Serbian commentator in Serbia no less, shows that Joe-kov-ic is the way to go if one is true to the language, nothwithstanding Novak's possible request for JOCK, which I still find hard to believe considering his patriotism and love for his native language and culture.

On tennis channel commercial he introduces himself correctly. I think this was some kind of misunderstanding.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 02:24 AM
^^^ You mean he still says Joe-ko-vic?

~Maya~
02-03-2009, 02:25 AM
yes

cornellboy
02-03-2009, 03:49 AM
Why is it so hard to imagine that people pronounce names "differently" in different countries? I just got back to the States after living in Korea for 6 months, and while I was there, I always said my name was "El-Been" (it's Alvin) because it was way easier for people to understand and pronounce (I would always have to repeat it about 4-5 times if I said it with an American pronunciation, and even then, people still repeated it as "El-Been").

It's not just Djokovic and the US, by the way... this happens in every country. Have you ever seen a French broadcast of a Serena Williams match? They call her "Seh-reh-nah Wee-yams." Are we supposed to throw a fit?

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 04:22 AM
This is because the French cannot enunciate certain English sounds whereas every north american can enunciate Joe-ko-vic. Lets be honest, most of the time north americans are too egocentric and do not put in any effort to change/learn new things. I still find it amazing that most americans pronounce Iraq Eye-raq. Even Christianne Amanpour takes issue with this and says it drives her crazy....

bobbynorwich
02-03-2009, 04:24 AM
Now that we've corrected the pronunciation of his surname, we should do the same for his first. Since he can't manage to find a way to stay on the court when the going gets tough, his nickname is correctly pronounced with a "w" not an "l", as in No-way, not Nole.

FedFan_2007
02-03-2009, 04:33 AM
Jock-itch?

FedFan_2007
02-03-2009, 04:34 AM
This is because the French cannot enunciate certain English sounds whereas every north american can enunciate Joe-ko-vic. Lets be honest, most of the time north americans are too egocentric and do not put in any effort to change/learn new things. I still find it amazing that most americans pronounce Iraq Eye-raq. Even Christianne Amanpour takes issue with this and says it drives her crazy....

You mean that Hizbollah Iranian lover? Puh-leese.

Cat9
02-03-2009, 04:38 AM
is that they both agreed that Novak likes his name pronounced with the "Joke" pronunciation, not "Jock," but then reverted to the Jock pronunciation a minute later!

Actually they said the exact opposite. They said that Novak wanted it pronounced, 'jock' and not 'joke' and then they pronounced it 'jock' the rest of the time.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 04:41 AM
"You mean that Hizbollah Iranian lover? Puh-leese."

Don't know too much about that other than she's one of your own and a famous new yorker. I'm just a lowly and humble Canadian (the big country to your north--it's really big in fact--can't miss it--just guide your finger from america and go up the page until it says canada).

partygirl
02-03-2009, 05:11 AM
Joe-ko-vich could work too.

Thank you that helps me:)

On tennis channel commercial he introduces himself correctly. I think this was some kind of misunderstanding.Yeah that is what i was going to say...In the intro onTheTennis Channel he says it & it sounds nothing like JOCK, more like what BalkanBoy says up there/\/\/\

Not to be too North American about it but I don't like the way JOCKovic sounds.

partygirl
02-03-2009, 05:13 AM
Now i know it is a different country but Delic....is it like "ICK" or "ITCH?"

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 06:10 AM
Partygirl, if you want to earn a B+, ICK will do. If you want to be truly cosmopolitan and do as the natives do (when in rome), you will say ITCH. This will really impress the Balkanites. When do you know it's a "ITCH" sound? When you see an ć as in Delić. Unfortunately you will never see this symbol outside Balkanstan.

Great attitude I must say!

Want to really impress your friends next time your at a party? Have them look up:

Difference between Ć and Č
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23605

While your at it, let's have PMac and Enberg try this: Đoković - really screw them up.

krystlel
02-03-2009, 07:08 AM
Why is it so hard to imagine that people pronounce names "differently" in different countries? I just got back to the States after living in Korea for 6 months, and while I was there, I always said my name was "El-Been" (it's Alvin) because it was way easier for people to understand and pronounce (I would always have to repeat it about 4-5 times if I said it with an American pronunciation, and even then, people still repeated it as "El-Been").

It's not just Djokovic and the US, by the way... this happens in every country. Have you ever seen a French broadcast of a Serena Williams match? They call her "Seh-reh-nah Wee-yams." Are we supposed to throw a fit?
This is a very good point, and after listening to many foreign commentary (well, not actually understanding it) I started to realize the same things and not bother as much about trying to get names right. I mean, a lot of names sound really weird in Russian and Chinese commentary. It sounds like they get all the names wrong in Chinese, but they're just making it sound like their language. :lol:

Even some names sound completely different in an American accent compared to an Australian even though technically it's said the exact same way.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 07:20 AM
This is a very good point, and after listening to many foreign commentary (well, not actually understanding it) I started to realize the same things and not bother as much about trying to get names right. I mean, a lot of names sound really weird in Russian and Chinese commentary. It sounds like they get all the names wrong in Chinese, but they're just making it sound like their language. :lol:

Even some names sound completely different in an American accent compared to an Australian even though technically it's said the exact same way.

^^^ Not sure I agree. That is like saying someone with a heavy accent is as refined as someone with a slight accent. The general rule should be to try to approximate the sounds as close to the native tongue as possible. It is part respect, and part not being lazy.

Salvy41
02-03-2009, 08:10 AM
Go to Wikipedia. Search for Novak Djokovic. Click on the little speaker icon beside his name. Play the sound clip. Listen to the correct pronunciation. Done.

pricdews
02-03-2009, 10:32 AM
The correct way to pronounce a name is how the name would be said in the country that the player is from. Often, because such names do not come from English-speaking countries, English-speaking commentators struggle with the pronounciation and end up saying it in a way that is comfortable to themselves.

I'm not so sure about this rule. Is it really the responsibility of commentators to learn the intracicies of dozens of languages? There are roughly 50 sounds in the English language. I think it's ok for an English commentator to ask a player to translate his/her name into a combination of those ~50 sounds. Just as English names would be slightly mispronounced when conformed to other languages. Otherwise we get the mass confusion of something as simple as trying to say the name of the #3 player in the world. If Novak tells us to use "Jock" we should.

A_Skywalker
02-03-2009, 10:58 AM
Its pronounced Djokovich with hard CH

Snoo Foo
02-03-2009, 11:12 AM
It's Liza with a Z.

partygirl
02-03-2009, 11:23 AM
If Novak tells us to use "Jock" we should.but thats not how he says it.

pricdews
02-03-2009, 11:29 AM
but thats not how he says it.

Maybe he doesn't pronounce it in English, using English sounds?

cornellboy
02-03-2009, 11:30 AM
The general rule should be to try to approximate the sounds as close to the native tongue as possible.

Where is this rule written? People can have lots of different reasons for pronouncing their names differently in different countries. Convenience can be a reason: I explained earlier that I pronounced my name "incorrectly" when I lived in a foreign country to make it easier on myself and those around me. Djokovic clearly had a reason as well: the word/sound "joke" probably doesn't have significance in Serbian, but it can have a negative connotation in English; therefore, he requested that American television commentators change the pronunciation of his name.

If an athlete's name in their native language was pronounced "Fuckhead" in English, I'm pretty sure they would ask American commentators to change the pronunciation a bit. I don't get what is so hard to understand about this.

partygirl
02-03-2009, 11:45 AM
Maybe he doesn't pronounce it in English, using English sounds?
I just think it is better to say it the way someone actually says it themselves.

vucina
02-03-2009, 12:25 PM
English speaking people can't pronounce Djokovic, but the closest one would be Jock ovitch.

pricdews
02-03-2009, 12:36 PM
I just think it is better to say it the way someone actually says it themselves.

I generally agree, but can English speakers say it exactly the way he does? His Cyrillic name is (per wiki, sigh) Новак Ђоковић which his wiki page says is pronounced [ˈnɔvaːk 'ʥɔːkɔviʨ].

But the translation of vowels isn't 100% exact, generally the Cyrillic o is the IPA ɔ (both open back vowels, the first coming from higher in the mouth).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_language
But there's some debate about whether it's open or rounded, or always closer to the IPA ɔ (jock) than the IPA o (joke) (especially depending on the Serbian accent)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbian_language

I bring all this up to show how complicated linguistics can be. Just because we hear it as "joke" when he says it, doesn't mean that's exactly how he pronounces it. "joke" and "jock" are probably both off. Ideally the translation from Cyrillic to Latin gives us a standard way of pronouncing Serbian names. Does anyone pronounce Jelena Dokic's surname as "Doe-kich"? Maybe Novak has a less common accent in the way he pronounces his own name, but when translated wants it more in line with standard translations from Serbian. Ultimately I'd rather not tell him how I think he pronounces it rather than just go along with whatever way he wants it said. Of course I wish he'd be firm on the matter, but it's not like he's asking us to call him something unreasonable.

partygirl
02-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Oh, you mean actually in English, like the sounds don't exist.


It is all something to think about, i think this is a very interesting thread.
Onions will abound.

Jōris
02-03-2009, 01:33 PM
I jump back and forth between the two.

Wolfy
02-03-2009, 02:38 PM
is this a Joke :spit: ?

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 03:03 PM
English speaking people can't pronounce Djokovic, but the closest one would be Jock ovitch.

Oh Zeus, not you too. Do you even speak Serbian or are you Korean posing as a Serb?

vucina
02-03-2009, 04:43 PM
Oh Zeus, not you too. Do you even speak Serbian or are you Korean posing as a Serb?

I'm sure you've learned serbian perfectly in Canada. It's definitely not Joke-ovitch.

Mr. Oracle
02-03-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm sure you've learned serbian perfectly in Canada. It's definitely not Joke-ovitch.

I came to canada when I was 12 and have lived here for 22 years paesan!

Joke-ovitch is a hell of alot closer than the caker version of JOCK-ovitich. First time I ever heard a Serb advocate for the JOCK version. Congratulations you are in exclusive territory!

oranges
02-03-2009, 11:34 PM
:lol: I can't beleive this discussion is still going on. Oracle, perhaps your English is not that good than - joke pronounced jowk or if you want phonetically and more precisely dʒəʊk. Yes, the ʊ is close to "u" in Serbian and it's the dominant part of that diphthong.

Mr. Oracle
02-04-2009, 03:48 AM
Oranges its interesting that you are now advocating Jowk (which i agree with) instead of the JOCK from your earlier post. Nice flip flop! Second, it is funny that you are not letting native Serbs who have an ear for their own language have the final say on their pronunciations. Are you playing the devil's advocate here or are you just trolling? If this thread has been beaten to death, why not be the first to exit and stop flip-flopping (JOCK vs JOWK)? :)

LoveFifteen
02-04-2009, 04:22 AM
When I watched the YouTube clip in Serbian, his name sounds closest to "joke"-ovic, not "jock"-ovic. Sometimes people with different native languages hear sounds different because certain sounds do not exist in their language. If I was trying to imitate the Serbian, I would say "joke"-ovic, but the "o" is very fast and short.

The other thing, as people have already said, different English speakers will pronounce "joke" differently depending on what country they are from. :lol:

I will stick with joke-ovic.

~*BGT*~
02-04-2009, 04:55 AM
This is a very good point, and after listening to many foreign commentary (well, not actually understanding it) I started to realize the same things and not bother as much about trying to get names right. I mean, a lot of names sound really weird in Russian and Chinese commentary. It sounds like they get all the names wrong in Chinese, but they're just making it sound like their language. :lol:

Even some names sound completely different in an American accent compared to an Australian even though technically it's said the exact same way.

Like Cahill saying "Rafer" (Rafa) and "Tsonger" (Tsonga)? :p

oranges
02-04-2009, 05:04 AM
Oranges its interesting that you are now advocating Jowk (which i agree with) instead of the JOCK from your earlier post. Nice flip flop! Second, it is funny that you are not letting native Serbs who have an ear for their own language have the final say on their pronunciations. Are you playing the devil's advocate here or are you just trolling? If this thread has been beaten to death, why not be the first to exit and stop flip-flopping (JOCK vs JOWK)? :)

There's no flip flop you tool :lol: It's the way common in US dictionaries to indicate a pronunciation. Serbian is not exactly a foreign language to me and it's not as if I've never heard it pronounced by native Serbians and it's not as if natives have not disagreed with our either. But hey, who are we to argue with Noam Chomsky of the MTF.

JimmyV
02-04-2009, 05:14 AM
Just call him douchebag and then both sides of the argument can be happy.

Mr. Oracle
02-04-2009, 05:31 AM
Haha Oranges, AS IF AS IF AS IF as you say and like OMG and Phat and Sick and all that!

Ok oranges, you win. Your right, you having heard it a few times from the mouths of Serbs trumps me someone who is an actual Serb. I can see the Balkan stubbornness will not be overcome even when wrong! :devil:

oranges
02-04-2009, 06:14 AM
Haha Oranges, AS IF AS IF AS IF as you say and like OMG and Phat and Sick and all that!

Ok oranges, you win. Your right, you having heard it a few times from the mouths of Serbs trumps me someone who is an actual Serb. I can see the Balkan stubbornness will not be overcome even when wrong! :devil:

We have lived in the same country for years in case you don't remember. I've probably heard it more than you in your life, not to mention that we're not talking about languages as different as Croatian and Czech or Russian anyway. You've really joined the MTF just for this insightful linguistic/phonetic discussion?

BalkanBoy
02-04-2009, 06:18 AM
Nooo I will have the last word it's JOE-KO-VITCH

I think you two just killed every interest some people may have had to learn Serbian-Croatian. I speak the language and you give me headaches with all your linguistic explanations over only one damn lastname. Imagine if you had to get along for a complete sentence? It would be world war 3 material. :devil: :p

krystlel
02-04-2009, 07:20 AM
Like Cahill saying "Rafer" (Rafa) and "Tsonger" (Tsonga)? :p
Yeah, that's exactly how I say it myself. :lol:

Murray is one that I'd say a lot differently as well, where you'd be saying something closer to "Merr-ray". I can't think of a way to type up what sound like in an Australian accent. The difference is as big as this "Djok-a-vitch" vs "Jo-kovitch" discussion.

Salvy41
02-04-2009, 07:37 AM
Go to Wikipedia. Search for Novak Djokovic. Click on the little speaker icon beside his name. Play the sound clip. Listen to the correct pronunciation. Done.

Did no one do this? There's no reason for this silly argument to continue..

r3d_d3v1l_
02-04-2009, 07:41 AM
Djokovic sounds must more natural than Djokevic.

zerocool_
02-04-2009, 11:11 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sr_Novak_Djokovic.ogg Just click play sound and you will hear right pronounce, it's alot easyer then to write 6 pages of this ;p

Andi-M
02-04-2009, 01:11 PM
I say it like Jaw-kov-vich

DropShot29
02-04-2009, 05:49 PM
Native English speakers have problems pronouncing these kind of names due to the lack of alveo-palatal sounds in English. Dj, in serbian is one letter Đ, and the last sound of his name is ch, as in the first sound of church. The problem seems to be with the lengthening and pronunciation of the "o" following the dj. All in all i don't think anyone is really doing that poor of a job, but English based commentary does have a way of flipping names and renaming athletes they have trouble pronouncing. But it's like asking for the right pronunciation of a Chinese word, and getting the right tone if you are not a native speaker it's almost impossible. Who would think my first post would be linguistics and not tennis.

Mr. Oracle
02-05-2009, 01:13 AM
I say it like Jaw-kov-vich

You are wrong sir!

You can also pronounce CAT Kite but that doesn't make you right does is Aristotle?