P.Cash: Nadal and Djokovic are threatening the future of the sport by driving away... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

P.Cash: Nadal and Djokovic are threatening the future of the sport by driving away...

Rosa Luxembourg
01-04-2009, 05:12 PM
... a generation of new fans


From The Sunday Times

January 4, 2009



Game must call time on ball-bouncing wasters


All the signs suggest the very peak of elite male tennis is going to be astounding in 2009. When was the last time a new year dawned with such a sense of expectancy surrounding the four main contend-ers? If things go to plan, more and more people will watch tennis. But with added exposure comes a need to get everything in order and the four big names must do their bit. I just hope that two of them realise their responsibilities, make a few simple modifications and therefore avoid shooting the game in the foot at a time when more floating spectators are being drawn to tennis.

Who am I pointing my finger at? Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. What am I accusing them of doing? Basic stalling that is beginning to get on the nerves of everybody who watches and plays the game. They habitually hold up the action by bouncing the ball far too many times before serving. Not only does this practice show contempt for the guy waiting to receive at the other end of the court, but quite frankly, it bores the pants off the fans. It’s wrong and it’s about time serious action was taken to stop it.

Let’s study Nadal first. He makes a mockery of the rule in Grand Slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next. He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play.
Djokovic can be even worse. Admittedly, he does not feel the need to rearrange his underwear for every point, but then his ball bouncing can become almost interminable. Those who have either the patience or the willpower have counted up to 25. Then, bizarrely, when the moment comes to serve, his action is very quick, which means that the opponent is almost taken by surprise.

Can we call this cheating? Certainly it contravenes the rules of the game. The fact that somebody as impeccably mannered as, say, Roger Federer regularly gets a little bit peeved underlines the need for this issue to be addressed. Are Nadal and Djokovic playing on the fact that umpires are not going to take hard-line action and therefore using the knowledge to give themselves an unfair advantage? The answer is irrefu-tably yes.

Stalling, of course, is nothing new. I can remember my early days on the tour and an American college player called Mark Dickson who came on the circuit and nearly sent us all to sleep by bouncing the ball 40-odd times before unleashing a ripper serve. There was another called Lloyd Bourne who was a college mate of the king of stalling, John McEnroe. Mac did not resort to ball bouncing. He simply used to stall the game by arguing with the umpire and even calling for the referee or supervisor.
I cast my mind back to the last time we played each other in a big match in the second round at Wimbledon in 1992, which he would eventually win after five sets. During the third set tie-breaker we were sometimes going three minutes between points as he was forever changing his racket.

Then there was the infamous Jimmy Connors shoelace routine, while Argentinian Guillermo Vilas worked out several tricks that didn’t just give himself a breather after a long point, but also played on his opponent’s concentration.
And I was no angel. I stalled with the best of them. The guy whose psyche I knew was best disturbed by a little gamesmanship, such as suddenly halting play because somebody was supposedly moving in the stands, was Ivan Lendl.
Why do people stall on serve? The answer is simple. The receiver is left wondering: “What’s going on? Will he hit the serve after five bounces, nine, or 15?” This means that the receiver’s concentration is constantly wavering and a player who doubts is often a player who loses. Trying to figure out when a multiple-bouncing server will finally begin his motion and hit the ball is like sprinters on the starting line attempting to anticipate the starter’s pistol.

So what can be done? For a start, the alphabet soup of tennis administration should unify the rule. As I’ve said, it’s 20 seconds in Grand Slams, Davis Cup and on the women’s tour, but on the ATP tour it is 25 seconds, so immediately players have a loophole. Often both Nadal and Djokovic are hit with warnings for slow play but nothing ever gets taken any further.
There is an automatic timer and the computers that all umpires have in the chair tells them when the server is taking too long but I’d like to see a clock in the corner of the court and a buzzer going off when the 20 or 25 seconds has elapsed.
I played in a Turbo Tennis exhibition event alongside Nadal in Zaragoza a couple of years ago and he was buzzed almost immediately. Rafa was, of course, the main attraction and who knows what would have happened if he had been disqualified. However, he knew that any more stalling could get him disqualified, so he quickened up. Surely this proves such things can work.

There are plenty of other rules that need examining. The let rule on serve for one, players abusing on-court treatment another. But two of the sport’s biggest names are doing the game no favours. Just a little bit of firmer offi-cialdom is the simple answer.

Rosa Luxembourg
01-04-2009, 05:14 PM
personally I think he'sa bit too harsh with the generation stuff, but he has a point IMO

Sunset of Age
01-04-2009, 05:19 PM
He has a point about the stalling issue, but his words are much too harsh.
P.Cash should address this issue to the UMPIRES, not the players...

The Freak
01-04-2009, 05:21 PM
Yes, this ball bouncing is driving fans away...:lol:

camnation
01-04-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure this guy could find a way to prove that the economic crisis was a result of the ball-bouncing too. :rolleyes:

MariaV
01-04-2009, 05:48 PM
:yawn:

Who cares what some alcoholic and a drug addict thinks. :zzz: :zzz:

bluefork
01-04-2009, 05:51 PM
Agreed that he might be exaggerating the issue, but I definitely would like to see the time rules enforced more strictly. In Nadal's matches in particular, there's way too much dead time. I can see how this might turn off potential new fans.

Dougie
01-04-2009, 05:53 PM
Well it´s nice to see someone with a name bringing this up. If I recall correctly, Cash was not the quickest server himself, but the situation with Nadal and Djokovic is totally something else. He also has a point about the on-court treatment that Djokovic abuses constantly. It´s not easy for the organisers or the fans, when matches last for ages because of these tricks, and schedules don´t hold at all. I actually like the clock-buzzer idea.

Geo
01-04-2009, 05:53 PM
yeah, the excessive ball bouncing is annoying, but it's not driving fans away :spit:

Pat Cash is just an amazing man :worship: :bowdown:

decrepitude
01-04-2009, 05:54 PM
I must be ill. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what Cash says. :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2009, 05:54 PM
:yawn:

Who cares what some alcoholic and a drug addict thinks. :zzz: :zzz:

Are we really going that way? I'm sure mr. Fuentes has a saying on that matter.

Fangirl.


Cash is right, he just went too far saying that this is driving fans away. The moonballing and clown grinding is what's driving fans away.

Sunset of Age
01-04-2009, 05:55 PM
^^ I can see this thread going :timebomb: real soon. :angel:

Dougie
01-04-2009, 06:02 PM
:yawn:

Who cares what some alcoholic and a drug addict thinks. :zzz: :zzz:

That is just too low. The man is also a Wimbledon winner with some of the best volleys ever. Certainly he has a right to speak about the issues of the sport. It´s about time someone does.

Castafiore
01-04-2009, 06:06 PM
He has the right to speak up and others have the right to disagree with his statements. :shrug:

It's absolutely ludicrous to say that it's driving "new" fans away.
If he wants to make a point about the ball bouncing and the time stalling, there are better and smarter ways than this ridiculous and over-the-top statement. He's a moron. Everybody who listens to his comments for longer than 5 minutes will tell you that.

SwiSha
01-04-2009, 06:13 PM
stfu one slam wonder

bokehlicious
01-04-2009, 06:16 PM
Cash is right, he just went too far saying that this is driving fans away. The moonballing and clown grinding is what's driving fans away.

True that, I'm not a Cash fan at all but he's spot on here, both are bad for tennis for sure...

rocketassist
01-04-2009, 06:19 PM
stfu one slam wonder

Yeah, STFU Fakervic. :D

kalisita
01-04-2009, 06:20 PM
He has a point about them taking too long, but then goes too far in assigning the impact of it. So it kind of renders any point he has moot. I also like that he's worried about them driving fans away so his solution is to put "a clock in the corner of the court and a buzzer going off when the 20 or 25 seconds has elapsed." I'm sure that would be super centre court at Wimbledon. Go over real well. :rolleyes:

decrepitude
01-04-2009, 06:26 PM
He has a point about them taking too long, but then goes too far in assigning the impact of it. So it kind of renders any point he has moot. I also like that he's worried about them driving fans away so his solution is to put "a clock in the corner of the court and a buzzer going off when the 20 or 25 seconds has elapsed." I'm sure that would be super centre court at Wimbledon. Go over real well. :rolleyes:

Maybe if it chimed like Big Ben, rather than a buzzer? :)

simplet
01-04-2009, 06:27 PM
How is it ridiculous to say that it's driving people away? Not everybody gets up at 4 in the morning to watch a stream for generic exhibition in the middle east number 457.

Sure it's probably not going to scare away the people who pay good money to go see the matches live and all that sort, but Tennis is at the moment trying to become a sport with mass appeal, and it has the stars to do so. When it comes to whining because of the coverage on the big name sport channels, you people are always here, but you have to realize that it's difficult for them to cover a sport where you an never tell how long it's gonna last. That plus the fact that the guy who goes from channel to channel after "Who wants to be a millionaire" doesn't want to se a guy bounce the ball 27 times, followed by an ace. It's boring. Hence, it makes him go away.

~Maya~
01-04-2009, 06:33 PM
And I was no angel. I stalled with the best of them. The guy whose psyche I knew was best disturbed by a little gamesmanship, such as suddenly halting play because somebody was supposedly moving in the stands, was Ivan Lendl.

.......

cobalt60
01-04-2009, 06:42 PM
I must be ill. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what Cash says. :shrug:

Well I agree with you and a lot with him so you can't possibly be ill ;)
The rules are there so use them officials and abide by them players.

jonathancrane
01-04-2009, 06:44 PM
Let’s study Nadal first. He makes a mockery of the rule in Grand Slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next. He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play.
Djokovic can be even worse. Admittedly, he does not feel the need to rearrange his underwear for every point, but then his ball bouncing can become almost interminable. Those who have either the patience or the willpower have counted up to 25. Then, bizarrely, when the moment comes to serve, his action is very quick, which means that the opponent is almost taken by surprise.

Can we call this cheating? Certainly it contravenes the rules of the game. The fact that somebody as impeccably mannered as, say, Roger Federer regularly gets a little bit peeved underlines the need for this issue to be addressed. Are Nadal and Djokovic playing on the fact that umpires are not going to take hard-line action and therefore using the knowledge to give themselves an unfair advantage? The answer is irrefu-tably yes.



:shrug:
Cash is telling the truth

jazar
01-04-2009, 06:45 PM
pat has some very pertinent points. i don't see how anyone cannot be bored by the time wasting these two players employ

ORGASMATRON
01-04-2009, 06:52 PM
I think he has a point, we are not in the stone age anymore where guys like Lendl, Connors and Mcenroe can abuse the rules at will. Get your act together tennis admin!

finishingmove
01-04-2009, 06:53 PM
driving away new fans...

that sure makes sense...

~Maya~
01-04-2009, 07:07 PM
I think he has a point, we are not in the stone age anymore where guys like Lendl, Connors and Mcenroe can abuse the rules at will. Get your act together tennis admin!

What point? That those two wasting time or that it is driving new fans away?
The first was addressed many times by the tennis witters, journalists at the press conferences, commentators, players.... so he is not making any new points here. Not even the timer idea is new. And all was discussed here a gazillion times
The second is ridiculous.

zeleni
01-04-2009, 07:08 PM
driving away new fans...

that sure makes sense...

He needs more practice in English.:)

l_mac
01-04-2009, 07:32 PM
Cash :haha:

He's my idol in terms of trolling :worship:

Kitty de Sade
01-04-2009, 08:13 PM
Vintage Cash- open mouth, insert foot. :worship:

He has a valid point about following rules, but to make a case for driving away new fans was a ridiculous stretch.

Lee
01-04-2009, 08:26 PM
So Cash needs a little cash and writes a little trash. :shrug:

Raquel
01-04-2009, 08:29 PM
20+ years after winning Wimbledon and Pat still gets a lot of work in Australia and the UK especially. I only wish he'd talk a bit more sense instead of having to create unnecessary and non-existant contoversy to justify his contract and pay. There are so many other great champions with more interesting things to say. I'm surprised Pat still gets hired to write these things after this utterly hilarious, couldn't-be-more-wrong-if-he-tried article from 2 years ago. Serena of course won the whole thing, destroying Sharapova in the final :p - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article1292868.ece

January 14, 2007
Williams is lost cause
For all her talk, Serena Williams will never return to the top again
Pat Cash

IF ANYBODY is qualified to make deluded statements about tennis, it is a former world No 1 and winner of seven Grand Slam titles. (Or you, Pat :devil:) But when Serena Williams arrives in Australia on her first foreign playing trip in a year and announces that it is only a matter of time before she is again dominating the sport, it’s time to tell her to get real.

Tennis is unforgiving. You can’t let it slide down the list of priorities, only to realise suddenly that playing the sport was what you wanted to do all along. Many have tried to turn back the clock, but nearly all have failed. That list includes Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe, Martina Hingis and, for different reasons, Monica Seles.

Admittedly this quartet experienced some success. The exploits of Hingis reaffirm the belief that a good champion never completely loses the gift, but she has gone only a fraction of the way and the No 1 ranking she held for a couple of years is far out of reach. Why? Tennis moved on in her absence.

The only players I can recall who let things slip, only to climb back to the top, were Andre Agassi and Jennifer Capriati. Williams should ask herself if she has the same dedication. And is she prepared to make the sacrifices? The answer is obvious.

As the saying so often used by McEnroe goes: “The older I get, the better player I used to be.” I take issue with Mac over many things, but not the merits of those words.

Williams may be in better physical shape this year than when she pitched up for the 2006 Australian Open, but her three matches in Hobart last week were her first in tournament play since the US Open almost four months ago. Add to that the fact that last year she opted not to play outside the US after losing in the third round in Melbourne and you cannot fail to agree that her application is lacking.

The Williams sisters changed the face of women’s tennis, taking power play to previously unimaginable levels. They blazed everybody else out of their path. But Serena clearly has a limited attention span. At her peak she had no patience in the way she played her tennis. Now she does not appear to have the fortitude to stick at what she is trying to do.

I never experienced a fraction of the success and dominance that she enjoyed, but there came a time in my career when everything associated with being a top player seemed suffocating. I wanted to do different things and the thought of heading to the practice court seemed like purgatory. Eventually I realised how much tennis meant to me and tried to make up for lost time, but although the spirit was willing, the body was not. And it made for years of frustration.

In the same way I maintained that my main interest was aspiring to be a rock musician for a couple of years, Williams said she was an actress. She also got involved in the fashion world and seemed to love every second of it. Good on her. She is entitled to do whatever she wants, and if it made her happy, what more could she ask?

Everybody knows she and Venus had no real choice when their father, Richard, decided that much of their childhood would be spent hitting tennis balls. Who can be surprised that this promotes a desire to do something different? But to make



such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence.

They are the new winning breed. They are tall and hit the ball just as hard as the Williams sisters, if not harder. Coming through are Jelena Jankovic, Nicole Vaidisova and Ana Ivanovic, who possess similar firepower and just need a little more experience.

There is so much more depth to the women’s game nowadays. No longer do we disregard the first week of a Grand Slam as a warm-up for the real confrontations that are to come.

I still don’t expect too many upsets before the quarter-finals, but neither do I expect Serena Williams, currently the world’s 81st-ranked player, with eight Americans above her in the rankings, to be in the mix at the sharp end of the tournament. (Pat...:o)

Vida
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
bollocks!

scoobs
01-04-2009, 08:34 PM
I don't know what the opposite of reductio ad absurdum is in latin, but Pat Cash is providing a great example.

The basic point is fair enough, and then his sense of perspective...assuming he has one...suffers catastrophic systems failure. :help:

Sunset of Age
01-04-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't know what the opposite of reductio ad absurdum is in latin, but Pat Cash is providing a great example.


'additio ad absurdum' ;)

scoobs
01-04-2009, 08:42 PM
'additio ad absurdum' ;)
I'll make a note ;)

KarlyM
01-04-2009, 08:42 PM
I do think Pat has a point, but it is hardly threatening the future of the sport. It's just a time wasting annoyance. :help: All the weird time wasting crap Baseball pitchers and hitters do don't seem to hurt the sport.

But there is another side to this: there are some people who hate tennis, but will watch to laugh at all those weird repetitive "habits." My sister is like this. She will only watch Nadal, Djokovic, and Roddick just to laugh at their habits - and counts the stuff they do. :lol:

sheeter
01-04-2009, 08:44 PM
He has very valid points, but perhaps is a slittle extreme, but that should not diminish the importance of this. I'm a Nadal fan, but its does get vexing at times. There not be a massive amount to admire about Roddick, but at least he moves quickly between points.

bokehlicious
01-04-2009, 08:47 PM
But there is another side to this: there are some people who hate tennis, but will watch to laugh at all those weird repetitive "habits." My sister is like this. She will only watch Nadal, Djokovic, and Roddick just to laugh at their habits - and counts the stuff they do. :lol:

Those can hardly be called fans :shrug: tennis doesn't need them...

BigJohn
01-04-2009, 08:48 PM
I thought Djokovic cut down on the bounce... Did he have a relapse?

Corey Feldman
01-04-2009, 08:57 PM
bollocks!:lol:

Dini
01-04-2009, 09:31 PM
Sadly this time Pat Cash is right. They take far too long between points and its annoying for the player at the other end and also for the spectators to see 10-15 bounces of the ball.

He might have gone to the extreme side, but hey the guy has a valid point.

thrust
01-04-2009, 10:04 PM
stfu one slam wonder

One Slam is better than none! Cash, like Rafter, were great to watch. He probably is right about Nadal and a few others, however, it is up to the officials to enforce the rules. But then, as in other sports, the top stars tend to get away with stretching the rules.

fast_clay
01-04-2009, 10:19 PM
i would like to see a big fat guy hit a massive cymbal with a massive drumstick at the Shanghai Masters this year at about 20 seconds... Fat Dave could do it after he retired...

Cash is a visionary...

I would also like to see a bull charge nadal in madrid... or somewhere else... no shot clock or tennis court is required here however...

habibko
01-04-2009, 11:14 PM
I thought Djokovic cut down on the bounce... Did he have a relapse?

that is true, it is more bearable recently, more like since he won his slam, further cut downs are still desirable.

true that for Nadal, ESPECIALLY when the going gets rough, he stalls to un-frickin-believablly ridiculous levels (wimbledon final for an example, he stalled for like a complete minute between points at the final set after the break :retard: ) someone needs to do something about it, and thats what Cash is saying :yeah:

the clock+buzzer is an excellent idea.

Vida
01-04-2009, 11:36 PM
that is true, it is more bearable recently, more like since he won his slam, further cut downs are still desirable.

true that for Nadal, ESPECIALLY when the going gets rough, he stalls to un-frickin-believablly ridiculous levels (wimbledon final for an example, he stalled for like a complete minute between points at the final set after the break :retard: ) someone needs to do something about it, and thats what Cash is saying :yeah:

the clock+buzzer is an excellent idea.

:lol:

whats next: an NBA tune?

ta na na...; ta na na...; ta na na...

:rolleyes:

things should be as they are. djoker got some flak over the bouncing and he reduced it. so did nadal as a matter of fact.

the matter is just way to complicated to be settled by some "ruuuuule" which players should obey like first christians did with ten commandments...

someone will bounce the ball too much, someone will bounce the ball not as much but way to slowly, someone will use towel when there aint no sweat, someone may serve way to quickly.... its just individual and should be handled by an umpire on the spot according to the flow of the game as he sees fit. if he blows it and a player gets justifiably damaged... well someone will complain about it already.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2009, 11:40 PM
:lol:

whats next: an NBA tune?

ta na na...; ta na na...; ta na na...

:rolleyes:

things should be as they are. djoker got some flak over the bouncing and he reduced it. so did nadal as a matter of fact.

the matter is just way to complicated to be settled by some "ruuuuule" which players should obey like first christians did with ten commandments...

someone will bounce the ball too much, someone will bounce the ball not as much but way to slowly, someone will use towel when there aint no sweat, someone may serve way to quickly.... its just individual and should be handled by an umpire on the spot according to the flow of the game as he sees fit. if he blows it and a player gets justifiably damaged... well someone will complain about it already.

Well, with clowns like Fakervic and Nadull on court, they should as well put some fanfare - it's practically a circus.

Vida
01-04-2009, 11:42 PM
Well, with clowns like Fakervic and Nadull on court, they should as well put some fanfare - it's practically a circus.

it is interesting yeah...

fast_clay
01-04-2009, 11:45 PM
At the Paris 1000 the fans should be able to spit at the player when the shot clock goes off... the ATP could get really funky with this new rule...

Corey Feldman
01-05-2009, 12:20 AM
One Slam is better than none! Cash, like Rafter, were great to watch. He probably is right about Nadal and a few others, however, it is up to the officials to enforce the rules. But then, as in other sports, the top stars tend to get away with stretching the rules... especially when it was Wimbledon

1 Wimbledon > 5 AO, French and U.S opens.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 12:26 AM
it is interesting yeah...

It's not interesting. It's boring and pathetic.

At the Paris 1000 the fans should be able to spit at the player when the shot clock goes off... the ATP could get really funky with this new rule...

At the Chilean Open the fans throw chairs when the shot clock goes off. :worship:

LinkMage
01-05-2009, 12:54 AM
At the Chilean Open the fans throw chairs when the shot clock goes off. :worship:


:haha:

fast_clay
01-05-2009, 12:58 AM
At the Chilean Open the fans throw chairs when the shot clock goes off. :worship:

yes... i hear you...

i enjoyed when Brazil trialled their version of the shot-clock in Davis Cup... very effective...
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/336.jpg

oranges
01-05-2009, 01:00 AM
:lol: Love the ideas how to improve on the clock/buzzer concept. Nalby working the gong :rolls: and I can't rep it :(

Action Jackson
01-05-2009, 01:02 AM
yes... i hear you...

i enjoyed when Brazil trialled their version of the shot-clock in Davis Cup... very effective...
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/336.jpg

You should post these on the ATP reform thread.

vucina
01-05-2009, 01:06 AM
Well, with clowns like Fakervic and Nadull on court, they should as well put some fanfare - it's practically a circus.

What do you have against circus, arseclown?

Forehander
01-05-2009, 01:10 AM
As much as I hate Pat Cash, I agree with him IMO. Something definitely needs to be done about time taken before serve.

kandygram
01-05-2009, 01:19 AM
Pat never got over young Rafa beating him. :devil:

" In May 2001, when Nadal was 14 years old, tennis great Pat Cash played a clay-court exhibition match against him. Cash, who was originally scheduled to play Boris Becker, was reluctant to play against Nadal, taking this rearranged match as an offense. Cash lost the game by a close margin."

http://www.zimbio.com/Rafael+Nadal/notes/5/Rafael+Nadal+s+Tennis+Career

Sunset of Age
01-05-2009, 01:26 AM
yes... i hear you...

i enjoyed when Brazil trialled their version of the shot-clock in Davis Cup... very effective...
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/336.jpg

:lol:

Pat never got over young Rafa beating him. :devil:

" In May 2001, when Nadal was 14 years old, tennis great Pat Cash played a clay-court exhibition match against him. Cash, who was originally scheduled to play Boris Becker, was reluctant to play against Nadal, taking this rearranged match as an offense. Cash lost the game by a close margin."

http://www.zimbio.com/Rafael+Nadal/notes/5/Rafael+Nadal+s+Tennis+Career

:lol: again... :worship:

fast_clay
01-05-2009, 01:43 AM
Pat never got over young Rafa beating him. :devil:

" In May 2001, when Nadal was 14 years old, tennis great Pat Cash played a clay-court exhibition match against him. Cash, who was originally scheduled to play Boris Becker, was reluctant to play against Nadal, taking this rearranged match as an offense. Cash lost the game by a close margin."

http://www.zimbio.com/Rafael+Nadal/notes/5/Rafael+Nadal+s+Tennis+Career

f***... Pat...

you d!ckhead...!

sawan66278
01-05-2009, 02:36 AM
Does Rafa take too long between points. Most certainly. And, depending on the circumstances, it should be called. Rafa's stalling really doesn't mean that much to the receiver...because you know from the time he stops bouncing to actually hitting the ball is consistent. One is NOT left wondering when he will serve...

Djokovic's (and he has gotten better more recently) bouncing is much worse because the receiver really doesn't know when to get ready because of the "fast" serving...he puts the receiver into a lull...and then quickly serves...a real disadvantage to the receiver.

Both players are wrong...according to the rules.

HOWEVER, I think there should be NO time limits. So what if each player takes a little more time. Big deal...its simply the fact that in this day and age of "knat-like" attention spans...people want things done faster and faster. Even though tennis is MUCH more intense physically today than yesterday. Back during the Cash era, players really were often simply standing around after shots...knowing that the ball was not going to be returned so hard and with such pace...the intensity of the rallies REALLY does lead one to believe that more, not less time is needed between points.

Cash is a dolt...who lucked into his one slam because Ivan Lendl choked. Go back to Blackrock and Outback...trying to relive your "glory" before crowds of 20.

He shows no respect...and yet the man has accomplished FAR less than Rafa and Novak.

Cretin Cash.

Sunset of Age
01-05-2009, 02:42 AM
HOWEVER, I think there should be NO time limits.

Might as well bring out baseball bats on court as well, in that case.
Not to hit the ball, but the opponent. :help:

fast_clay
01-05-2009, 03:06 AM
Cash has his finger on the pulse...

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 03:49 AM
yes... i hear you...

i enjoyed when Brazil trialled their version of the shot-clock in Davis Cup... very effective...
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/patma2003/336.jpg

That's what you gotta do with Fakervic and Nadull.

What do you have against circus, arseclown?

It's boring, silly and made for simpletons. Therefore, I don't like it.

LoveFifteen
01-05-2009, 06:31 AM
I have never seen Nadal or Djokovic live. If you watch them on TV, the extra time can be filled with replays or commentary, but if you're watching it in person or on an internet feed, then the time between points can get ridiculous. I don't understand why the umpires don't enforce this rule more effectively. :sad:

duong
01-05-2009, 07:26 AM
Maybe it's a mistake that he emphasized first the matter of the fans rather than the matter of the opponent which is for me the main issue (and which is what he talked most about),

but I think Cash's article is great, this is something great that someone who has already been concerned (and who also says that he used that trick) writes it, giving old examples and writing very clear.

I hope people will think about that in a clear way, and not focus on whether or not they like Nadal or Djokovic.

I like Djokovic myself, and Nadal is a good man, and I'm not sure at all that Nadal and Djokovic use that as a trick but rather as a way to concentrate ... but what Cash says is just true.

I will say more : comparing to Connors with his shoelace etc, the problem is worse when the server makes the opponent wait his serve while he's already on the line to serve ... because at that moment, the opponent already has to concentrate to return, whereas when Connors makes his shoelace, he knows that he can wait.

I personnaly think that there should be a special rule to limit how much time the server is on the line before serving.

If he's tired, he needs to use his towel and so on, it counts in the 25 seconds but it's less disturbing.

But when the server is on the line, I think a limit of 5 seconds before serving would be good.

It's not about Nadal and Djokovic : it's about the whole game really.

PS : as for the fans, I have to say that during Nadal's matches, the length of the match caused by all this time before serving really makes the match less interesting for me, beside the nature of his game itself.

Bingerz
01-05-2009, 10:35 AM
Yeh i agree with most of what he says, i doubt anything will be done about it, but Djokovic especially annoys me with his ball bouncing antics...just play tennis, get on with it

star
01-05-2009, 12:13 PM
I have never seen Nadal or Djokovic live. If you watch them on TV, the extra time can be filled with replays or commentary, but if you're watching it in person or on an internet feed, then the time between points can get ridiculous. I don't understand why the umpires don't enforce this rule more effectively. :sad:

I've seen them both in person, and it didn't bother me or seem endless. Also I've never heard anyone in the crowd talk about how boring it was or how awful.

In reply to someone up thread: Djokovic's serve is pretty predictable, because he speeds up his bounce just before he serves.

The only thing I object to is the random (or not so random) nature of the rule enforcement. Enforce it from the outset of the match, rather than wait until a crucial point and then enforce it. Apparently, this is a rule that the umpires agree should not be enforced strictly, but then that leaves it up to each umpire when he/she thinks it will have maximum impact.

JolánGagó
01-05-2009, 12:13 PM
I started reading and at first thought it was Prima Donna réentrée in GM.

Hilarious.

CmonAussie
01-05-2009, 12:46 PM
stfu one slam wonder


**:rolleyes:
>>
i don`t know why Cash gets so much shit from morons like you SwiSh:rolleyes:
...
for staters he`s not a `one slam wonder`!
Wimbledon champion 87, AO finalist twice 87 & 88, Wimbledon & US Open SFs 84, virtually single handedly won the Davis Cup for AUS 83 & 86, former Junior #1, Junior Wimbledon champion!
...
anyway Cash can say some BS, but atleast half of the time he talks a lot of sense, which is more than i can say about the majority of tennis commentators! sometimes he gets it wrong ~ like when he wrote of S.Williams prematurely, but he recognises his mistakes and continues to speak frankly:cool:

FedFan
01-05-2009, 01:28 PM
I must be ill. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what Cash says. :shrug:

Me too. But I don't feel ill. ;)
There are rules and it is up to the umpires to enforce them, if the players act against them. As simple as that.

Why should players, who profit from time wasting change their annoying habits? Until now they have no reason to, because they are not sanctioned. Sometimes they get a warning, but that's all.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 02:48 PM
I've seen them both in person, and it didn't bother me or seem endless. Also I've never heard anyone in the crowd talk about how boring it was or how awful.

In reply to someone up thread: Djokovic's serve is pretty predictable, because he speeds up his bounce just before he serves.

The only thing I object to is the random (or not so random) nature of the rule enforcement. Enforce it from the outset of the match, rather than wait until a crucial point and then enforce it. Apparently, this is a rule that the umpires agree should not be enforced strictly, but then that leaves it up to each umpire when he/she thinks it will have maximum impact.

Again, this isn't about the crowd. It's about the opponent.

MurrayFan1
01-05-2009, 02:57 PM
I love the idea of a buzzer, but I think at first it would be going off all the time, then players would complain about it, hence wasting time anyway.

I think the idea that timewasting drives fans away is fucking stupid, how are Djokivic and Nadal driving fans away? Will people not watch tennis because Nadal is playing? Quite the opposite.

I disagree with the principle of timewasting and gamesmanship, but if you are neutral it does add a bit more tension/excitement on big points.

reggie1
01-05-2009, 03:03 PM
i would like to see a big fat guy hit a massive cymbal with a massive drumstick at the Shanghai Masters this year at about 20 seconds... Fat Dave could do it after he retired...

Cash is a visionary...

I would also like to see a bull charge nadal in madrid... or somewhere else... no shot clock or tennis court is required here however...

You're naughty but you do make me laugh, Fat Dave... :lol::haha:

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 03:19 PM
Why would anyone not blind and deaf like to watch Nadull's play tennis?

MurrayFan1
01-05-2009, 03:24 PM
I am sure many here would love to watch the new number 1 play!

rocketassist
01-05-2009, 04:23 PM
Does Rafa take too long between points. Most certainly. And, depending on the circumstances, it should be called. Rafa's stalling really doesn't mean that much to the receiver...because you know from the time he stops bouncing to actually hitting the ball is consistent. One is NOT left wondering when he will serve...

Djokovic's (and he has gotten better more recently) bouncing is much worse because the receiver really doesn't know when to get ready because of the "fast" serving...he puts the receiver into a lull...and then quickly serves...a real disadvantage to the receiver.

Both players are wrong...according to the rules.

HOWEVER, I think there should be NO time limits. So what if each player takes a little more time. Big deal...its simply the fact that in this day and age of "knat-like" attention spans...people want things done faster and faster. Even though tennis is MUCH more intense physically today than yesterday. Back during the Cash era, players really were often simply standing around after shots...knowing that the ball was not going to be returned so hard and with such pace...the intensity of the rallies REALLY does lead one to believe that more, not less time is needed between points.

Cash is a dolt...who lucked into his one slam because Ivan Lendl choked. Go back to Blackrock and Outback...trying to relive your "glory" before crowds of 20.

He shows no respect...and yet the man has accomplished FAR less than Rafa and Novak.

Cretin Cash.

Cash and Fakervic have 1 slam each last time I looked, and Cash's was Wimbledon. Therefore, Cash is superior at this moment in time.

Both him and Nadal need to speed the fuck up, it's not hard.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 04:40 PM
I am sure many here would love to watch the new number 1 play!

1- The real #1 is Frauderer.

2- No surprise, 98% of MTF posters are a bunch of fanboys who have absolutely not a clue about tennis.

Ashma
01-05-2009, 04:47 PM
Good players who stall are better than mediocre ones who play by the book.

Commander Data
01-05-2009, 05:49 PM
1- The real #1 is Frauderer.

2- No surprise, 98% of MTF posters are a bunch of fanboys who have absolutely not a clue about tennis.

:-)

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 06:14 PM
Good players who stall are better than mediocre ones who play by the book.

True, but Nadull and Fakervic aren't good players... :shrug:

rofe
01-05-2009, 06:15 PM
Does Rafa take too long between points. Most certainly. And, depending on the circumstances, it should be called. Rafa's stalling really doesn't mean that much to the receiver...because you know from the time he stops bouncing to actually hitting the ball is consistent. One is NOT left wondering when he will serve...

Djokovic's (and he has gotten better more recently) bouncing is much worse because the receiver really doesn't know when to get ready because of the "fast" serving...he puts the receiver into a lull...and then quickly serves...a real disadvantage to the receiver.

Both players are wrong...according to the rules.

HOWEVER, I think there should be NO time limits. So what if each player takes a little more time. Big deal...its simply the fact that in this day and age of "knat-like" attention spans...people want things done faster and faster. Even though tennis is MUCH more intense physically today than yesterday. Back during the Cash era, players really were often simply standing around after shots...knowing that the ball was not going to be returned so hard and with such pace...the intensity of the rallies REALLY does lead one to believe that more, not less time is needed between points.

Cash is a dolt...who lucked into his one slam because Ivan Lendl choked. Go back to Blackrock and Outback...trying to relive your "glory" before crowds of 20.

He shows no respect...and yet the man has accomplished FAR less than Rafa and Novak.

Cretin Cash.

This statement is beyond stupid. Do you watch tennis to see players trade ground storkes or to see them get ready to serve? I definitely have issues with Novak and Nadal taking so much time because it makes their matches relatively boring. The time limit - even though it is not enforced like I think it should be, makes watching matches with them somewhat sane because they do try to keep it within 15 seconds of the allocated time. If there was no time limit, we would have a whole generation of players that will make time wasting an art form and we as viewers and fans and tennis will suffer because of it.

Castafiore
01-05-2009, 06:36 PM
I'm quite convinced that players like Nadal and Djokovic attract at least as many "new" fans to the sport than the ones who are supposedly driven away.

A lot of posters in here are jumping on this article (come on, people. It's Pat Cash we're talking about) based on their own bias against both players but to assume that new tennis fans are going to stay away because of this is ludicrous.
"The sport will suffer from it..." :rolleyes: such melodrama

Yes, they sometimes tend to take too much time but they both are exciting players to watch at the same time.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 06:38 PM
The problem is that new fans are like you = fanboys without a clue about the sport.

The real tennis fans are leaving the sport with all this crap going on.

Exciting players? Really... really... really?

http://blog.pharmalive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/o_rly.jpg

bokehlicious
01-05-2009, 06:42 PM
Yes, they sometimes tend to take too much time but they both are exciting players to watch at the same time.

Bah as Sawan smartly pointed out, there should be no time limits, that way we'd maybe even get to see Rafito's underwear for a longer time in between points :hearts: now that would draw new fans to the game :shrug:

ORGASMATRON
01-05-2009, 06:47 PM
True, but Nadull and Fakervic aren't good players... :shrug:

That made me laugh :lol: And i suppose you think the Gooch is better :haha:

jonathancrane
01-05-2009, 06:56 PM
HOWEVER, I think there should be NO time limits.



:haha:



Yes, they sometimes tend to take too much time but they both are exciting players to watch at the same time.

Sometimes??

vucina
01-05-2009, 07:00 PM
That made me laugh :lol: And i suppose you think the Gooch is better :haha:

Don't pay attention to our arseclown champion. He probably sits all day in his basement, jacking off while watching dinosaurs serve and volley on his betamax.

tennizen
01-05-2009, 07:04 PM
I don't see what the big fuss about the rule breaking is. There is no sanctity to the current time limit. The existing rule could as easily be altered instead of struggling to implement enforcement mechanisms.

Matt01
01-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Ridiculous crap from Mr. Cash. Nadal and Djokovic are not driving away any fans, the opposite is true: They are the reason why ATP tennis is really interesting and exciting for lots of people today.

1- The real #1 is Frauderer.

2- No surprise, 98% of MTF posters are a bunch of fanboys who have absolutely not a clue about tennis.


1- Nadal is the current #1. Time for you to get a reality check. :rolleyes:

2- Yes, and you are one of them.

FedFan
01-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Ridiculous crap from Mr. Cash. Nadal and Djokovic are not driving away any fans, the opposite is true: They are the reason why ATP tennis is really interesting and exciting for lots of people today.




1- Nadal is the current #1. Time for you to get a reality check. :rolleyes:

2- Yes, and you are one of them.

But I don't hope they attract new fans, because of their time wasting. ;)(If yes, you should ask yourself if such people are interested in tennis itself).

Your statement has also nothing to do with the fact, that the umpires should enforce the rules to create fairness in the sport in giving the same chances to all players! In this case Cash has a strong argument without any doubt.

azinna
01-05-2009, 07:55 PM
It's telling that tennis was at its most popular with several big-time stallers (Connors, Vilas and McEnroe) at the top. Don't think it drives away that many casual fans. But it certainly drives a good number of tennis enthusiasts crazy....well, those invested in breaches of etiquette. I don't recall many of my casual-fan friends complaining about Rafa taking 25 secs during his matches against Federer.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 09:40 PM
Ridiculous crap from Mr. Cash. Nadal and Djokovic are not driving away any fans, the opposite is true: They are the reason why ATP tennis is really interesting and exciting for lots of people today.

1- Nadal is the current #1. Time for you to get a reality check. :rolleyes:

2- Yes, and you are one of them.

1- No.
2- Tells me someone who has a pic of a player shirtless as avatar. Get a clue, fanboy. You know shit about tennis. You just proved my point - that you're a rogue - when you affirmed "ATP tennis is really interesting for lots of people today". Those people are the fanboys (including you) and they know shit about tennis. :)

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 09:42 PM
The worst of all that's been posted in this thread is the following: people don't get that the rule isn't made for them, egotistical fanboys. It's made to keep respect between THE PLAYERS.

duong
01-05-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm quite convinced that players like Nadal and Djokovic attract at least as many "new" fans to the sport than the ones who are supposedly driven away.

A lot of posters in here are jumping on this article (come on, people. It's Pat Cash we're talking about) based on their own bias against both players but to assume that new tennis fans are going to stay away because of this is ludicrous.
"The sport will suffer from it..." :rolleyes: such melodrama

Yes, they sometimes tend to take too much time but they both are exciting players to watch at the same time.

Why care if Pat Cash is the one who speaks and you don't like him,

and why care if two players much concerned are Nadal and Djokovic,, and you like or don't like them ?

Come on, this topic deserves far better than a debate about who likes who :rolleyes:

Imo, the most important is what is fair for the opponent, the matter of the fans is something else. Imagine that you play against such a player :banghead:

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 10:31 PM
I'd rather watch Rafa pick his ass and Djoko's bouncing and a good point, than a fast UE as a result of lack of focus or shortness of breath.
Just don't say "they don't play good points", you'll just repeat yourself.

Sampras won 14 GSs without bouncing the ball a million times. So have practically all players before those two morons.

Tells a lot about your favorites - that they're so mediocre they need to pull those stunts to be able to keep on focus. About shortness of breath it's simple: learn how to play tennis instead of moonballing/grinding all match long and then you won't get tired so fast.

vucina
01-05-2009, 10:35 PM
Sampras won 14 GSs without bouncing the ball a million times. So have practically all players before those two morons.

Tells a lot about your favorites - that they're so mediocre they need to pull those stunts to be able to keep on focus. About shortness of breath it's simple: learn how to play tennis instead of moonballing/grinding all match long and then you won't get tired so fast.

You still don't get it? S&V shit doesn't work anymore.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 10:41 PM
You still don't get it? S&V shit doesn't work anymore.

Of course. If you volley as bad as Nadull and Fakervic, you won't win a single point at the net. Players today are mugs at the net, that's why they don't S&V.

Matt01
01-05-2009, 10:46 PM
The worst of all that's been posted in this thread is the following: people don't get that the rule isn't made for them, egotistical fanboys. It's made to keep respect between THE PLAYERS.


People like you, who are bashing and insulting player left and right because they are not fitting into their narrow-minded picture, shouldn't talk about RESPECT.

vucina
01-05-2009, 10:49 PM
Of course. If you volley as bad as Nadull and Fakervic, you won't win a single point at the net. Players today are mugs at the net, that's why they don't S&V.

Of course they don't learn net-rushing, their coaches realized it's wasteful and counterproductive. What other explanation is there? If there was any real use from it, people would still be doing it.

l_mac
01-05-2009, 10:58 PM
Of course. If you volley as bad as Nadull and Fakervic, you won't win a single point at the net. Players today are mugs at the net, that's why they don't S&V.

Nadal hit some great volleys today in his dubs match. He's fast becoming one of the most accomplished volleyers on tour - maybe even of all time. :worship:

Nadal is hot. He brings in fans.

Novak has brought all of Serbia.


Pat is wrong.

vucina
01-05-2009, 11:03 PM
Nadal hit some great volleys today in his dubs match. He's fast becoming one of the most accomplished volleyers on tour - maybe even of all time.

You're kinda funny. I like that in a woman.
Nadal is hot. He brings in fans.

Novak has brought all of Serbia.
1 Serb beats 1000 pansie fans. Vamos Serbia.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 11:15 PM
People like you, who are bashing and insulting player left and right because they are not fitting into their narrow-minded picture, shouldn't talk about RESPECT.

I bash whomever I want, mate, if they're making a mockery of the sport. He who respects no-one doesn't deserve respect.

Of course they don't learn net-rushing, their coaches realized it's wasteful and counterproductive. What other explanation is there? If there was any real use from it, people would still be doing it.

Of course it's wasteful and counterproductive. That's why Federer is about to break the all-time slam barrier who was achieved first by whom? Another net player.

Yeah... I think that we don't need new fans like that - who started watching tennis yesterday. :rolleyes:

Nadal hit some great volleys today in his dubs match. He's fast becoming one of the most accomplished volleyers on tour - maybe even of all time. :worship:

Nadal is hot. He brings in fans.

Novak has brought all of Serbia.

Pat is wrong.

:lol: I love the tongue-in-cheekiness.

Nadull is ugly. Only people with bad taste think he's hot. Safin is hot. Nadull looks like Mowgli.

The state where I live is bigger and more populated than Serbia - therefore its influence is irrelevant. Serbia is too small.

ORGASMATRON
01-05-2009, 11:17 PM
Are you blind? Of course he's better.


Are you for real?

Lee
01-05-2009, 11:22 PM
http://img2.menstennisforums.com/753/devilpopcorn.gif

vucina
01-05-2009, 11:26 PM
Of course it's wasteful and counterproductive. That's why Federer is about to break the all-time slam barrier who was achieved first by whom? Another net player.

Yeah... I think that we don't need new fans like that - who started watching tennis yesterday.
Federer, a net rusher? You see what you want to see.
And how would you know when I started watching and playing tennis? Just so you can STFU about it, I'll tell you something. Tennis was popular in Serbia and former Yugoslavia since the 70' and 80'. Serbs were watching the biggest tournaments before Djokovic was even born.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2009, 11:35 PM
Are you for real?

You call Federer "Master" and ask me if I'm for real?

:lol:

Federer, a net rusher? You see what you want to see.
And how would you know when I started watching and playing tennis? Just so you can STFU about it, I'll tell you something. Tennis was popular in Serbia and former Yugoslavia since the 70' and 80'. Serbs were watching the biggest tournaments before Djokovic was even born.

Federer is more of a net rusher than most of the top 100.

Well, either you started watching tennis yesterday or you're just plain dumb. As I'm a very nice person, I assumed you started watching yesterday... if you say otherwise, there's nothing I can do.

But anyway, who cares about tennis' popularity in Serbia. I bet there are more tennis fansin my country than people in Serbia.

vucina
01-05-2009, 11:50 PM
You call Federer "Master" and ask me if I'm for real?

:lol:



Federer is more of a net rusher than most of the top 100.

Well, either you started watching tennis yesterday or you're just plain dumb. As I'm a very nice person, I assumed you started watching yesterday... if you say otherwise, there's nothing I can do.

But anyway, who cares about tennis' popularity in Serbia. I bet there are more tennis fansin my country than people in Serbia.
I stopped reading there. You lie as soon as you open your mouth. You're not nice, but an evil arseclown.
http://www.horrorflix.net/images/pennywise.jpg

l_mac
01-06-2009, 12:13 AM
Nadull is ugly. Only people with bad taste think he's hot. Safin is hot. Nadull looks like Mowgli.

He's delicious.

You prefer Safin - maybe dark gyus don't do it for you, I don't know. :shrug: I respect your choice.

Are you for real?

Of course he's not for real. He just said Rafa was ugly.

Biggest joker on the forum. Take what he says with a pinch of salt :hug:

sawan66278
01-06-2009, 03:21 AM
Cash and Fakervic have 1 slam each last time I looked, and Cash's was Wimbledon. Therefore, Cash is superior at this moment in time.

Both him and Nadal need to speed the fuck up, it's not hard.

Actually, Novak has a Masters Year-End Title, has made at least the semis of all four slams, and has ended the year #3 two years running. Case closed...Cash is a lucky one-time slam winner.

AND, you can laugh...but if there is no CLEAR set rule, there should be no time limit. Often we hear how the umpire should use his discretion to see if (say after a long point) the players need more time, etc. Come on...I don't really think abuse of the rule would be that rampant...but then again, I come from a "baseball nation"...where pitchers take an eternity to pitch.

LleytonMonfils
01-06-2009, 03:56 AM
I still think Djokovic's bad boy attitude appeals to the younger generation of athlete. And Nadal's complete beastialityawesomeness should be enough to dazzle.

Leo
01-06-2009, 05:23 AM
For once I agree with the dude! I usually hate Pat Cash.

But it's true. Stalling is bad for the sport. It's unfair to the opponent - and umpires really do need to restrict Nadal (especially) and Djokovic (to a lesser extent) to the allotted number of seconds between points. But it is also bad for fans. I know I lose interest if I have to wait over thirty seconds between points. Come on now! That's ridiculous. Not even baseball pitchers take that long - and we don't want tennis to become as slow a sport as baseball. :rolleyes:

Thank you for this article, Pat.

duong
01-06-2009, 06:04 AM
For once I agree with the dude! I usually hate Pat Cash.

But it's true. Stalling is bad for the sport. It's unfair to the opponent - and umpires really do need to restrict Nadal (especially) and Djokovic (to a lesser extent) to the allotted number of seconds between points. But it is also bad for fans. I know I lose interest if I have to wait over thirty seconds between points. Come on now! That's ridiculous. Not even baseball pitchers take that long - and we don't want tennis to become as slow a sport as baseball. :rolleyes:

Thank you for this article, Pat.

I'm sure I'd like more to follow Nadal's (especially him) and Djokovic's matches if they didn't need so much time between points.

And I'm sure most of the fans would be glad about it, and especially those who were not used at watching tennis.

If people stopped thinking about who likes who, they would agree on that obvious point, I believe.

Cash is also right that the problem goes further than Nadal and Djokovic's personal cases : they are models for the young generation (in France, we can see a lot of young boys imitating Nadal in everything).

And I think everybody would agree that this would be a problem if a lot of young people imitated that part of their model.

Action Jackson
01-06-2009, 06:51 AM
Cash is right in the problems with the timewasting in between points, but the facts are there are rules that need to applied and the umpires are the ones who have to enforce them, players are going to try and get away with as much as they can.

Castafiore
01-06-2009, 06:56 AM
and why care if two players much concerned are Nadal and Djokovic,, and you like or don't like them ?
You're right of course, in theory.

But looking at this thread, you know that a lot of people are talking :bs: because they are too biased and unwilling to let that bias go in this (rather pointless) discussion.

bokehlicious
01-06-2009, 07:14 AM
But looking at this thread, you know that a lot of people are talking :bs: because they are too biased and unwilling to let that bias go in this (rather pointless) discussion.

:hug: thank god people like you can still be objective when it comes to Nadal matters :hatoff: :o :p

FairWeatherFan
01-06-2009, 07:17 AM
Good article by Cash. Federer seems more popular than Nadal and Djokovic. In my opinion this is likely because he is very polite and shows good sportsmanship on court, which I do not think can always be said of Nadal and Djokovic.

Castafiore
01-06-2009, 07:27 AM
:hug: thank god people like you can still be objective when it comes to Nadal matters :hatoff: :o :p
:lol: Nice try but I'm not claiming to be objective either.

You're not suggesting that this article by Pat Cash is good, are you?
He's discussing the time wasting topic from the wrong angle as quite a few MTF'ers have also pointed out.

bokehlicious
01-06-2009, 07:32 AM
Hilde, I happen to share Cash's views here :shrug: I complain about those 2 guys' time wasting for years :shrug: :o

duong
01-06-2009, 08:15 AM
:lol: Nice try but I'm not claiming to be objective either.

You're not suggesting that this article by Pat Cash is good, are you?
He's discussing the time wasting topic from the wrong angle as quite a few MTF'ers have also pointed out.

Maybe the beginning of the article (maybe the English word is "the sting") is a little bit provocative, as it's mostly the case about newspapers' articles : that makes the people interested about it :rolleyes:

but mainly I think he says what has to be said :

- this is not fair to other players (he gives many examples, which are all the more interesting as he has lived them)

- it's not a good model for the future of tennis

duong
01-06-2009, 08:17 AM
Cash is right in the problems with the timewasting in between points, but the facts are there are rules that need to applied and the umpires are the ones who have to enforce them, players are going to try and get away with as much as they can.

That's why I think he speaks about the "buzz".

Either the umpires act far more strictly or this is a harsh but not stupid idea.

But first the umpires can do a lot about it !

tennis2tennis
01-06-2009, 08:24 AM
rather than have a go at the players, maybe the onus should be on the umpires to uphold the rules, that's what they're getting paid to do!

I’d like to see a clock in the corner of the court and a buzzer going off when the 20 or 25 seconds has elapsed.



i think this suggestion is actually workable...

reggie1
01-06-2009, 09:19 AM
rather than have a go at the players, maybe the onus should be on the umpires to uphold the rules, that's what they're getting paid to do!




i think this suggestion is actually workable...

I think so too, it does get really boring in between points. I like Nadal but the endless ball bouncing is just :zzz:

Mohammad
02-03-2009, 06:46 PM
Former Wimbledon winner Pat Cash has advised slow-moving world No. 1 Rafael Nadal to pick up the pace on serve.

From one Wimbledon champion to another, 1987 holder Cash has complained of the Spaniard's leisurely approach which exceeds routinely the 20-second rule.

"They habitually holds up the action by bouncing the ball far too many times before serving", Cash complained. "Not only does this practice show contempt for the guy waiting to receive at the other end of the court, but quite frankly, it bores the pants off the fans".

"It's wrong and it's about time serious action was taken to stop it".

The Cash Solution: use of a buzzer which would sound when time was up, hopefully embarrassing offenders.

"He makes a mockery of the rule in grand slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next," said Cash to London's Times.

"He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play".
http://tennistalk.com (http://tennistalk.com/en/news/20090203/Cash_tells_Nadal_to_pick_up_the_pace)

finishingmove
02-03-2009, 06:48 PM
"He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play".


so how can anyone find this boring?

TMJordan
02-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Pat Cash is the man. :yeah:

Montego
02-03-2009, 06:50 PM
Maybe Cash is somehow right, but he sounds like he dislikes Nadal and he can't stand the fact that a "moonballer" at the age of 22 has achieved 5 times more than Cash throughout his whole career.

Certinfy
02-03-2009, 06:54 PM
yh i agree, it suckz how long they take

Damn
02-03-2009, 06:58 PM
Right now this statement is pure bullshit.

Nadal has reduced the time he uses between serves, and it has been demonstrated at the AO. With his new outfit he doesn't need to use the towel so many times, and he uses around 15 seconds between serves, which is completely legal.

This Cash is a Fedtard. I assume he has been crying these last days :devil:

GuiroNl
02-03-2009, 07:01 PM
Cash is still angry that Nadal beat him when he was 14.

Mohammad
02-03-2009, 07:07 PM
Cash is still angry that Nadal beat him when he was 14.
Jealousy is the only thing that I can say.

ossie
05-16-2009, 05:36 PM
why must u raise the dead?

Roddickominator
05-16-2009, 05:38 PM
A British paper whining and criticizing something....imagine that. Get this filth off the board.

Jōris
05-16-2009, 05:40 PM
If you mentioned in the post that the author is Pat Cash, I could have stopped reading right there.

Action Jackson
05-16-2009, 05:43 PM
This has already been posted.

Swiss Mountain
05-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Nadal Will Drop Out Fast.

Rafa = Fed Killa
05-16-2009, 06:23 PM
Someone should tell that retard Pat Cash to watch the match going on right now.

This is mens tennis.

Chloe le Bopper
05-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Are that many paragraphs really needed to complain about time wasting? Me thinks that somebody is looking to drive away readers. Or put them to sleep.

Johnny Groove
05-16-2009, 06:33 PM
If Pat Cash is gonna bitch about the time between points as opposed to the quality during the points, that's his problem.

Fuck the casual fan.

Chloe le Bopper
05-16-2009, 06:34 PM
Nadal Will Drop Out Fast.
I wasn't aware that he was still in school.

Modetopia
05-16-2009, 06:50 PM
:devil:
the time since last point:
Nadal: 37sec
Djokovic: 33sec

FedFan_2007
05-16-2009, 06:59 PM
Clown thread. Cash and Glenn Miryni, never in doubt.

oranges
05-16-2009, 07:00 PM
:devil:
the time since last point:
Nadal: 37sec
Djokovic: 33sec

No wonder it's the longest three setter :p

Swiss Mountain
05-16-2009, 08:16 PM
:devil:
the time since last point:
Nadal: 37sec
Djokovic: 33sec

they will have their ass kicked at the french by many warnings just like last year
pussy players needs 36 sec to serve pfff

JolánGagó
05-16-2009, 08:25 PM
Bullshit as expected, old Pat again abusing on booze... :zzz:

Garson007
05-16-2009, 09:53 PM
Clearly they drove fans away today.

w78dexon_y
05-16-2009, 10:23 PM
yeah the ball bouncing is a threat to the game. :rolleyes:

BTW, the names mr. Cash listed ae bad examples automatically disqualifiy his opionin/idea: Nadal, Djokovic, Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Gullermo Vilas,...lol!

Are we gonna lose them and get his buzzer at work? He must be engaged in production of the buzzers!?

bobbynorwich
05-16-2009, 10:31 PM
Wouldn't doping and gambling be bigger threats to the future of the sport than a few players taking 5 extra seconds between serves?

w78dexon_y
05-16-2009, 10:32 PM
yeah, certainly! Mr. Cash wants to prove that 4 hours and 2 minutes of play and the quality of the game they delivered today will threaten the tennis, and drive the fans away!??
:haha::haha::haha:

ignigena
05-16-2009, 10:42 PM
I dont get it, when they are preparing themselves for serve, it actually make me concentrate more in the game and gives me a moment to think again whats going on and to increase the expectation of the next point. I think we should be flexibles till a point. 30 seconds is not that much and the game becomes more strategical.

cocrcici
05-16-2009, 10:44 PM
Clearly they drove fans away today.

:haha:

Kiedis
05-16-2009, 10:58 PM
Las prisas solo son buenas para los delincuentes y los malos toreros

heya
05-17-2009, 12:08 AM
Poor Pat shut his mouth, as the McEnroe brothers did.
At least Djokovic wasn't reduced to crying uncontrollably and bad-mouthing superior people every week.

w78dexon_y
05-17-2009, 12:15 AM
I dont get it, when they are preparing themselves for serve, it actually make me concentrate more in the game and gives me a moment to think again whats going on and to increase the expectation of the next point. I think we should be flexibles till a point. 30 seconds is not that much and the game becomes more strategical.

I sign this.

the graduate
05-17-2009, 12:21 AM
Pat Cash is always looking for attention one way or the other,he bounces from dissing players on WTA now he is on the young ones in ATP....Pat get a life you bitter loser

pica_pica
05-17-2009, 08:42 AM
:devil:
the time since last point:
Nadal: 37sec
Djokovic: 33sec
In some way I think the "time in between" creates the great atmosphere of the match. Both guys look like a bundle of nerve fibres to me and it's intriguing to see how they calm and prepare themselves for the next point.

Jade Fox
05-17-2009, 09:17 AM
Clearly they drove fans away today.

Sad as it is but I couldn't stand this horrible quality of tennis that was played yesterday, so I'm leaving tennis.


Curling for the win! :rocker2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l4VIH_etmI

Erica86
05-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Obviously after watching last night match, I think Cash should shut his mouth up. He was never half of the player we saw yesterday with those two.

McAlistar
05-17-2009, 10:39 AM
No wonder these two have such long matches, their ball bouncing must add about half an hour to each match.

muniu
05-17-2009, 11:31 AM
No wonder these two have such long matches, their ball bouncing must add about half an hour to each match.

oh pls , at least their match was entertaining...

let's look at 63 64 over Del Pony , pretty boring if you asked :wavey:

Myrre
05-17-2009, 12:11 PM
If they both took 10 sec's less between points, then; 10x245 pts = 2450/60 = 41 mins shorter match.

Jōris
05-17-2009, 12:52 PM
If they both took 10 sec's less between points, then; 10x245 pts = 2450/60 = 41 mins shorter match.

Funny. But the calculation doesn't take into account that the delays mostly occurred in set three.

JolánGagó
05-17-2009, 01:03 PM
who the hell want shorter matches anyway? :shrug:

MacTheKnife
05-17-2009, 01:09 PM
who the hell want shorter matches anyway? :shrug:

EXACTLY !! I never have or ever will support shortening this game. If someone doesn't like long matches, then get involved in some of those damn bike sports.
Tennis is meant to be a test of talents, as well as physical and mental abilities. The more intense the battle, and the more sportsmanship involved, the better I like it.

sanshisan
05-17-2009, 01:10 PM
In some way I think the "time in between" creates the great atmosphere of the match. Both guys look like a bundle of nerve fibres to me and it's intriguing to see how they calm and prepare themselves for the next point.

Well said. A few extra seconds builds suspense, develops focus in both audience and players. Cash seems to forget, these guys are doing 20-50 bounce volleys especially on clay. How does a couple extra seconds to catch their breath and focus hurt the game? Look at the attendance at Nadal's games if you want to see how his tiny time violations are driving fans away.

4 solid hours of heart-stopping tennis yesterday betw Nadal and Djokovic. Did anyone notice a single soul in the audience walking away in boredom?

Pat Cash - If you want to criticize time-consuming BORING games attack baseball or golf. You played puffball tennis compared to Nadal and Djokovic. You probably couldn't even go one round with them.

JolánGagó
05-17-2009, 01:27 PM
and all this whining from people who'd think nothing of spending a whole afternoon watching some cricket or baseball game where often nothing happens for half an hour ffs :rolleyes:

pica_pica
05-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Well said. A few extra seconds builds suspense, develops focus in both audience and players. Cash seems to forget, these guys are doing 20-50 bounce volleys especially on clay. How does a couple extra seconds to catch their breath and focus hurt the game? Look at the attendance at Nadal's games if you want to see how his tiny time violations are driving fans away.

4 solid hours of heart-stopping tennis yesterday betw Nadal and Djokovic. Did anyone notice a single soul in the audience walking away in boredom?

Pat Cash - If you want to criticize time-consuming BORING games attack baseball or golf. You played puffball tennis compared to Nadal and Djokovic. You probably couldn't even go one round with them.
:yeah: