Fed - Guga rivalry on Clay at their primes [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Fed - Guga rivalry on Clay at their primes

HarryMan
12-31-2008, 06:13 PM
How do you guys think these two would match up on clay, had they had many more matches against each other?

On clay, they had played two matches against each other and both had recorded one win (both wins were quite comfortable).

Do you think Federer could have beaten Kuerten at his prime at RG? How do you think this rivalry would have ended up (on clay), if these two had played each other in most clay court tournaments (lets say similar to how Fed and Nadal are today)? I know these are hypothetical questions but I would like to know your thoughts on this.

I personally feel that Fed would lead the head to head against Guga even on clay.

kai.
12-31-2008, 06:22 PM
Guga would own Fed :worship:

Action Jackson
12-31-2008, 06:22 PM
In other words this is just an exercise to make out the Federer is beatdowns he has suffered from Nadal one of the greatest ever on clay, not look so bad.

A has been Kuerten beat Federer on clay. Why would it be even? Federer would have to attack more than he does now, but if you are going to ask the question, then provide some points either way.

Arkulari
12-31-2008, 06:23 PM
I think there would be a better comparison between Guga and Rafa, who are both kings of clay :shrug:

Action Jackson
12-31-2008, 06:25 PM
I think there would be a better comparison between Guga and Rafa, who are both kings of clay :shrug:

Been done only 1002 times already.

EnriqueIG8
12-31-2008, 06:25 PM
I think Kuerten would have the edge over Federer in both of their prime days and I absolutely agree with Nat that the comparison between Rafa and Guga is a better one than the Fed - Guga one even though I think both Rafa and Roger have bigger careers already than Guga. No offense to Guga here.

HarryMan
12-31-2008, 06:33 PM
We have had a lot of discussions regarding Guga and Nadal, but what I wanted to know is whether Fed coudl have tackled Guga at his prime and could he have won the RG already if both these players had their primes at the same time?

My thoughts:

Yes he could have won the RG by now; Fed's main problem today isn't that he is not good player on clay, he is in fact a great player on that surface, but the problem is his inability to handle Nadal's topspin forehands to his backhand side, and also considering Nadal's athletic abilities, it becomes really difficult for him to charge the net and end the points quickly. So I don't see how he could beat Nadal with his classic gamestyle.

Considering Guga was a righty, and not a topspin player with a one handed backhand himself, I think this match up between the two would even out a lot more. Although Guga was a great athlete, I don't think he could attack Fed's backhand as much as what Nadal does now. And if you go to the Federer forehand, you're almost dead most of the times. This will definitely not expose the Fed's weak wing (which is also a considerable weapon against most players, if the ball is quite low).

tangerine_dream
12-31-2008, 06:43 PM
A more interesting match-up would have been Guga vs Rafa on clay. Man, I would give Roger's left arm to see that one.

Action Jackson
12-31-2008, 06:46 PM
Guga hit backhands down the line off heavy topspin, he didn't have much of slice, but his single hander could easily get Federer off the court with angles.

Another way of saying that if Federer was born earlier then he'd have won RG at least once.

HarryMan
12-31-2008, 06:47 PM
A has been Kuerten beat Federer on clay.

A young upcoming Fed beat Guga in 02

Action Jackson
12-31-2008, 06:49 PM
A young upcoming Fed beat Guga in 02

2002 is where the hip problems started, but the basic premise has been worked out here.

HarryMan
12-31-2008, 06:49 PM
Guga hit backhands down the line off heavy topspin, he didn't have much of slice, but his single hander could easily get Federer off the court with angles.

Another way of saying that if Federer was born earlier then he'd have won RG at least once.

You make good points but do you think Guga could handle the Federer's slice comfortably?

star
12-31-2008, 06:53 PM
We have had a lot of discussions regarding Guga and Nadal, but what I wanted to know is whether Fed coudl have tackled Guga at his prime and could he have won the RG already if both these players had their primes at the same time?

My thoughts:

Yes he could have won the RG by now; Fed's main problem today isn't that he is not good player on clay, he is in fact a great player on that surface, but the problem is his inability to handle Nadal's topspin forehands to his backhand side, and also considering Nadal's athletic abilities, it becomes really difficult for him to charge the net and end the points quickly. So I don't see how he could beat Nadal with his classic gamestyle.

Considering Guga was a righty, and not a topspin player with a one handed backhand himself, I think this match up between the two would even out a lot more. Although Guga was a great athlete, I don't think he could attack Fed's backhand as much as what Nadal does now. And if you go to the Federer forehand, you're almost dead most of the times. This will definitely not expose the Fed's weak wing (which is also a considerable weapon against most players, if the ball is quite low).

I dunno. Fed lost to Guga at RG even after Guga was a lesser player because of his hip injury. Guga also beat Fed on hardcourt following his hip surgery, and he never really was the same player after his hip surgery.

All of the what ifs can be played out pretty much however anyone wants to depending on their biases. My bias is Guga, of course. :) :)

Lee
12-31-2008, 07:14 PM
A young upcoming Fed beat Guga in 02

Guga just returned from his first hip surgery in 02. I estimated he was about 30% of the player who won RG in 2001.

LinkMage
12-31-2008, 07:54 PM
Guga would own Fed. See the RG 04 3rd round match for details. Fed isn't very good on clay. The problem is everyone else excluding Nadull sucks even more. That's why Nadull looks so good on clay, there isn't any other good player on that surface. So then we get these fangirls claiming Nadull is the best ever on clay. :rolleyes:

Fedex
01-01-2009, 07:48 AM
A more interesting match-up would have been Guga vs Rafa on clay. Man, I would give Roger's left arm to see that one.

:lol:

Foxy
01-01-2009, 08:13 AM
Guga would have been somewhere in between Rafa and Rog on clay.

FairWeatherFan
01-01-2009, 10:54 AM
Kuerten would beat Federer most days on clay. He moves better on clay than Federer, constructs points better and has the edge on groundstrokes. I remember Fed saying that he also had a lot of difficulty reading Guga's serve.
However I think the rivalry would be closer than that between Nadal and Federer. This is because Guga does not have the same level of vicious spin to Federer's backhand that is so pernicious to Fed against Nadal.

manuel84
01-01-2009, 11:11 AM
Federer would get 1 RG crown out of 4 consecutive meetings with Kuerten at the FO.

Boris Franz Ecker
01-01-2009, 12:02 PM
Kuerten was the luckiest player ever.
Only reached the semi finals of a grand slam tournament three times, three times with a lot of luck and he won all of them.
He is in no way comparable to Nadal.
Very probably Federer would have his chances against lucky Kuerten

Action Jackson
01-01-2009, 12:12 PM
You make good points but do you think Guga could handle the Federer's slice comfortably?

Only ways Federer beats Kuerten consistently on clay is either get him in very windy conditions or be very attack minded, he isn't beating from the baseline wirh only 3 approaches to the net per set.

Funny people think it's only the topspin that bothers Federer on clay, it's not that simple.

TheIlluminati
01-02-2009, 11:52 AM
Well Kuerten did beat Federer on clay and so did Hewitt & Nalbandian on other surfaces but that was before Federer became the Federer we know.

duong
01-02-2009, 12:29 PM
I personally think that Guga is a little bit over-rated on clay.

How can you compare with Nadal ?

Nadal wins everything easily.

Kuerten lost quite often, and had a real rivalry with young Ferrero, with Norman or Kafelnikov.

Of course it would be great to see him in his prime against Nadal or Federer,

but he can be far more compared with Federer than with Nadal imo.

What I'm at least certain is that he's far worse than Nadal.

Against Federer, it's hard to say, and none of their two matches are fully representative because both of the losers completely missed their match.

Kuerten would have a clear advantage against Federer thanks to his backhand.

But it's difficult to say more than that :
I think it would be pretty even, and really difficult for me to say between 3 and 4.

Usually I'm very surprised about the favorable results for Federer (for instance poll about the backhand),

but this time I'm very surprised about the unanimity about Guga owning Federer !

Probably nostalgia I think ?
Or the effect of their match in 2004 being televised everywhere ?
Or refusal of the idea of Nadal being nearly invincible on clay and hence desire to find a rival for him ? which made Kuerten the ideal candidate for that and hence which made him over-rated ?

Action Jackson
01-02-2009, 12:59 PM
They actually played claycourt tennis from 93 to 2004, now the only person that plays claycourt tennis in that style is one Rafael Nadal, and of course he has incorporated aspects of the modern game into that style.

Basically it's hardcourt tennis played on all surfaces, this is clearly obvious due to surface homogenisation.