2009 Entry Ranking Points [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2009 Entry Ranking Points

Super-Fabio
12-07-2008, 11:51 AM
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2386/2009rankingpointspc0.jpg

Here in the big format:
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6099/2009rankingpointsql7.jpg

PiggyGotRoasted
12-07-2008, 12:08 PM
So only the winner of the YEC gets points?

Edit : Seen the small print

krystlel
12-07-2008, 12:11 PM
Can we have a breakdown of the old points allocations posted here to make it easy to compare?

Super-Fabio
12-07-2008, 12:38 PM
Can we have a breakdown of the old points allocations posted here to make it easy to compare?

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6750/2008rankingpointskl9.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2008rankingpointskl9.jpg)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6750/2008rankingpointskl9.jpg

Garson007
12-07-2008, 01:10 PM
The rise on challengers are minimal. :o

kiwi10is
12-07-2008, 01:25 PM
and how will the 2008 points be recalculated?? I assume there might be some small changes in the ranking but the entry ranking 2008 is already in use for the first tournaments 2009

JMG
12-07-2008, 01:28 PM
This is the DC points rule:

http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_31930_original.PDF

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 02:42 PM
This is the DC points rule:

http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_31930_original.PDF

Well luckily it isnt THAT much points and it isnt too difficult to understand.

The minimal increase in challengers compared to the doubling of ATP events is complete bullshit though.

So the points will all be doubled at the end of 2008 and then will be "reconfigured" to the 2009 points throughout the year. All players are screwed in this manner and only the players who win events won't lose points.

Now, is it still the top 18/19 events with 5 optionals? Isn't there a requirement for top 10ers or something?

Garson007
12-07-2008, 02:58 PM
Well luckily it isnt THAT much points and it isnt too difficult to understand.

The minimal increase in challengers compared to the doubling of ATP events is complete bullshit though.

So the points will all be doubled at the end of 2008 and then will be "reconfigured" to the 2009 points throughout the year. All players are screwed in this manner and only the players who win events won't lose points.

Now, is it still the top 18/19 events with 5 optionals? Isn't there a requirement for top 10ers or something?
This is my understanding, I could be wrong:

It's eight mandatory masters, if you skip one you won't be able to participate in the one you did the best in the following year. Then you have to play four 500 events, one of which is post-US Open - or you get a naught. Then there are two further optionals, which would consist out of Monte Carlo, other 500s and all 250s.

Foxy
12-07-2008, 03:08 PM
This is my understanding, I could be wrong:

It's eight mandatory masters, if you skip one you won't be able to participate in the one you did the best in the following year. Then you have to play four 500 events, one of which is post-US Open - or you get a naught. Then there are two further optionals, which would consist out of Monte Carlo, other 500s and all 250s.

What if you are injured or smth thus you can't participate?
What about this 4x500 (1xpost-USOpen) rule? What are the sanctions. 0 points in the non-mandatories.
I easily see in Roge's and Raf's schedules they do not obey the 4x500(1xpost-USOpen)rule.

Garson007
12-07-2008, 03:19 PM
What if you are injured or smth thus you can't participate?
What about this 4x500 (1xpost-USOpen) rule? What are the sanctions. 0 points in the non-mandatories.
I easily see in Roge's and Raf's schedules they do not obey the 4x500(1xpost-USOpen)rule.
Yes, I'm assuming that they'll get a 0 in their rankings for that miss. They will be missing out on edging their ranking about with another tournament.

Edit: As for injuries, I'm sure the same will apply as if you didn't have a high enough rank to qualify for a masters.

nobama
12-07-2008, 03:24 PM
^^^
So the 4 '500' events aren't mandatory but contribute to your ranking so if you miss one or more (or don't fit one in after USO) you get zero points? Are there any other penalties for not playing 4 '500' events?

Garson007
12-07-2008, 03:31 PM
^^^
So the 4 '500' events aren't mandatory but contribute to your ranking so if you miss one or more (or don't fit one in after USO) you get zero points? Are there any other penalties for not playing 4 '500' events?
Your guess is as good as mine, but since ATP did not advertise some penalty, one can only assume that there would not be one. Logic would dictate that, in any case.

Sunset of Age
12-07-2008, 03:35 PM
Your guess is as good as mine, but since ATP did not advertise some penalty, one can only assume that there would not be one. Logic would dictate that, in any case.

Is it just my lacking brain function that I just can't yet see how this will all work out as of yet (if it does at all)? :shrug:

The (near to non-existant) rise on the challenger points... :help:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Some math:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Some math I did:

2009 Points

Grand Slam
W- 2000 (x 2 from 2008)
F- 1200 (x 1.714286 from 2008)
SF- 720 (x 1.6 from 2008)
QF- 360 (x 1.44 from 2008)
R16- 180 (x 1.2 from 2008)
R32- 90 (x 1.2 from 2008)
R64- 45 (x 1.286 from 2008)
R128- 10 (x 2 from 2008)
Q- 25 (x 1.6666 from 2008)

Masters 1000
W- 1000 (x 2 from 2008)
F- 600 (x 1.714286 from 2008)
SF- 360 (x 1.6 from 2008)
QF- 180 (x 1.44 from 2008)
R16- 90 (x 1.2 from 2008)
R32- 45 (x 1.286 from 2008)
R64- 10(25) (x 2/ x 1.25 from 2008)
R96- (10) [Indian Wells & Miami] (x 2 from 2008)
Q- 25+12 if draw is larger than 56 (x 1.6666/ x 2.4 from 2008)

500's as compared to 2008’s 300 point events
W- 500 (x 1.66666 from 2008)
F- 300 (x 1.43 from 2008)
SF- 180 (x 1.33333 from 2008)
QF- 90 (x 1.2 from 2008)
R16- 45 (x 1.8 from 2008)
R32- 20 (x 1.3333 from 2008)
R64- 0 [Barcelona, Hamburg, Washington] (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 20+10 if draw is larger than 32 (x 2/ x 2 from 2008)

250's as compared to 2008’s 175 events
W- 250 (x 1.43 from 2008)
F- 150 (x 1.25 from 2008)
SF- 90 (x 1.2 from 2008)
QF- 45 (x 1.125 from 2008)
R16- 20 (x 1.3333 from 2008)
R32- 5 (0 points for 2008, 5 points for 2009)
R56- 0 [Queen's, New Haven] (N/A)
Q- 12+5 if draw is larger than 32 (x 2.4 from 2008)

Ironically, the 250 events for 2009 will be worth less points than 2008’s 250 events across the board save for the tournament victor.
TMC
200 for each RR win, 400 for SF win, and 500 for finals win= 1500 for undefeated

X2 across the board for the TMC or the WTF

CH 150K+H
W- 125 (x 1.25 from 2008)
F- 75 (x 1.07 from 2008)
SF- 45 (EVEN with 2008)
QF- 25 (x 1.087 from 2008)
R16- 10 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 5 (x 1.6666 from 2008)

CH 150K
W- 110 (x 1.2222 from 2008)
F- 65 (x 1.03175 from 2008)
SF- 40 (EVEN with 2008)
QF- 20 (x 0.9524 from 2008) LESS POINTS
R16- 9 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 5 (x 1.66666 from 2008)

CH 125K
W- 100 (x 1.25 from 2008)
F- 60 (x 1.07 from 2008)
SF- 35 (x 0.972222 from 2008) LESS POINTS
QF- 18 (x 0.94739 from 2008) LESS POINTS
R16- 8 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 5 (x 1.66666 from 2008)

CH 100K
W- 90 (x 1.2857 from 2008)
F- 55 (x 1.12245 from 2008)
SF- 33 (x 1.0645 from 2008)
QF- 17 (x 1.0625 from 2008)
R16- 8 (x 1.143 from 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 5 (x 1.6666 from 2008)

CH 75K
W- 80 (x 1.33333 from 2008)
F- 48 (x 1.143 from 2008)
SF- 29 (x 1.07 from 2008)
QF- 15 (x 1.07 from 2008)
R16- 6 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 5 (x 1.6666 from 2008)


CH 50K/CH 35K+H
W- 75 (x 1.3636 from 2008)
F- 45 (x 1.184 from 2008)
SF- 27 (x 1.125 from 2008)
QF- 13 (EVEN with 2008)
R16- 5 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 3 (x 1.5 from 2008)

FU 15K+H
W- 33 (x 1.375 from 2008)
F- 19 (x 1.1875 from 2008)
SF- 9 (x 1.125 from 2008)
QF- 4 (EVEN with 2008)
R16- 1 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 0 (EVEN with 2008)

FU 15K
W- 25 (x 1.388888 from 2008)
F- 14 (x 1.75 from 2008)
SF- 7 (x 1.16666 from 2008)
QF- 3 (EVEN with 2008)
R16- 1 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 0 (EVEN with 2008)

FU 10K
W- 17 (x 1.416666 from 2008)
F- 9 (x 1.125 from 2008)
SF- 5 (x 1.25 from 2008)
QF- 2 (EVEN with 2008)
R16- 1 (EVEN with 2008)
R32- 0 (EVEN with 2008)
Q- 0 (EVEN with 2008)

DC

Playoff round win 1- 5
Playoff round win 2- 10
First round loss- 10
1st round win- 40
QF win- 65
SF win- 70
F win- 75

Going 7-1 and team wins DC, + 75 points
Going 8-0, + 125 points

500’s= Rotterdam, Memphis, Acapulco, Dubai, Barcelona, Hamburg, Washington DC, Beijing, Tokyo, Basel, Valencia

250’s= Everything else

As you can see, the jump in challengers is tiny compared to the jump in ATP events.

This is farcical, dude.

Garson007
12-07-2008, 03:55 PM
Instead of quote use code tags when you do something like this.

Sunset of Age
12-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Some math I did:

Thanks a lot... I will need my calculator to check it all out, :lol:.

As you can see, the jump in challengers is tiny compared to the jump in ATP events.

This is farcical, dude.

Absolutely. Way to go if the ATP indeed wants to encourage young people to pick up tennis as their major sport!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 04:00 PM
Instead of quote use code tags when you do something like this.

Done, thats for the suggestion dude

Garson007
12-07-2008, 04:01 PM
Not having a top-hundred talent in our country does make this extremely frustrating, the closes one we have in the form of Anderson will already have to do better than this year to stay at the same rank.

One should however see it from the ATP's perspective as well; the longer the top 100 stays the same, the better equipped the ATP and those players are to "sell" themselves to prospective sponsors.

smucav
12-07-2008, 04:04 PM
Are there any other penalties for not playing 4 '500' events?Players who don't meet their commitments will not be eligible for revenue sharing (aka "bonus pool").

Sunset of Age
12-07-2008, 04:08 PM
One should however see it from the ATP's perspective as well; the longer the top 100 stays the same, the better equipped the ATP and those players are to "sell" themselves to prospective sponsors.

And that's exactly why I think this new points count is in fact an insult to young and upcoming players, as it will be a lot harder for them to get a higher ranking.

All the more proof that the ATP is managed by a bunch of Marketing Fools, who apparently think the current list of top players should be protected even more than they are already - for the sake of Marketing and Big Bucks. :barf:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 04:13 PM
And that's exactly why I think this new points count is in fact an insult to young and upcoming players, as it will be a lot harder for them to get a higher ranking.

All the more proof that the ATP is managed by a bunch of Marketing Fools, who apparently think the current list of top players should be protected even more than they are already - for the sake of Marketing and Big Bucks. :barf:

Its complete bullshit.

Its already hard as fuck to even get one point these days now its gonna be even harder to bust into the top ranks.

The gap between future and challenger players wont be too much different from 2008, but the gap between challenger and ATP players will be very difficult to overcome.

Can't believe it takes 4 futures wins to get a single point

nobama
12-07-2008, 04:23 PM
Players who don't meet their commitments will not be eligible for revenue sharing (aka "bonus pool").Ah, so the bonus pool doesn't just apply to Masters (1000) events?

nobama
12-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Is it just my lacking brain function that I just can't yet see how this will all work out as of yet (if it does at all)? :shrug:

The (near to non-existant) rise on the challenger points... :help:As bad as the ATP is the WTA is even worse. Reading through the WTA Roadmap (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?columnist=kamakshi_tandon&id=3670301) makes your head hurt. :o

duong
12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
I easily see in Roge's and Raf's schedules they do not obey the 4x500(1xpost-USOpen)rule.

For Federer, there are 4 :

Davis Cup-Dubai-Tokyo-Basel

2 of them are after the US Open

I don't know for Nadal, but I believe there will be Davis Cup-Dubai-Barcelona at least, and maybe Valencia, Tokyo or Beijing.

Garson007
12-07-2008, 04:56 PM
For Federer, there are 4 :

Davis Cup-Dubai-Tokyo-Basel

2 of them are after the US Open

I don't know for Nadal, but I believe there will be Davis Cup-Dubai-Barcelona at least, and maybe Valencia, Tokyo or Beijing.
I completely forgot to add Davis Cup in there, thanks. :yeah:

duong
12-07-2008, 05:02 PM
As for the challengers, the difference with the ATP-250 tournaments is not much increased,
especially for the smallest challengers.

It's rather the grand slams, the Masters series and the ATP-500 tournaments (at least the "small ones", excluding Dubai, Barcelona and Rotterdam which already gave a lot of points before) which give more comparing to the smaller tournaments.

nobama
12-07-2008, 05:29 PM
DC getting ranking points... :retard: :retard: :retard:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 05:34 PM
All of this "Count 4 ATP 500" events in your ranking is
all very well in October BUT

How can I work out the Best 4 when only two have been played
in mid February ???

You count their doubled 2008 points.

For example, Nadal at the beginning of 2009's ranking points will be doubled to 13350. If Nadal won in Doha (-240 from doubled Chennai + 250 from Doha win) and the SF in AO (-900 from 2008 +720), his ranking total at the end of the AO would be 13180.

So he would have better results but lose 170 points.

I think :shrug:

scarecrows
12-07-2008, 05:37 PM
this will make the 250 and the 500 qualies much more interesting that they were before, sometimes the cutoff was too low. 100-200 ranked players will boycott challengers for playing them

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 05:44 PM
this will make the 250 and the 500 qualies much more interesting that they were before, sometimes the cutoff was too low. 100-200 ranked players will boycott challengers for playing them

Possibly. Qualifying for a 500 and losing in the first round would be roughly equivalent to a SF run in the top challengers.

smucav
12-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Ah, so the bonus pool doesn't just apply to Masters (1000) events?The final rule will be in the 2009 rulebook, but the draft was that only players who met all their commitments (eight mandatory events, four 500 events (including one after U.S. Open), and World Tour Finals (if eligible) as well as their off-court commitments (media, STARS program, player meetings) would be eligible for revenue sharing. This will be the first full-fledged bonus pool since 2002 (only the top four players were received bonuses in 2007-2008.)

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 05:58 PM
The final rule will be in the 2009 rulebook, but the draft was that only players who met all their commitments (eight mandatory events, four 500 events (including one after U.S. Open), and World Tour Finals (if eligible) as well as their off-court commitments (media, STARS program, player meetings) would be eligible for revenue sharing. This will be the first full-fledged bonus pool since 2002 (only the top four players were received bonuses in 2007-2008.)

So the final points tally should be:

4 slams
8 Masters (sans Monte Carlo)
4 500's (including one post-USO)
TMC

That's 17 events.

What about the 250's?
Does a DC SF tie count as a post USO 500?

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 05:59 PM
I am not talking about the doubling points

At the Moment you have a Best 5

Will it change on Jan 1 to a Best 4 500 events plus highest others

Or will they just double the whole total without any thought

From what i gather, i think they'll just double the total without any thought and then kind of work on it throughout the year.

Either way its really stupid. ATP= :retard:s

smucav
12-07-2008, 06:13 PM
So the final points tally should be:
4 slams
8 Masters (sans Monte Carlo)
4 500's (including one post-USO)
TMC

That's 17 events.

What about the 250's?
Does a DC SF tie count as a post USO 500? 18 events (+ WTF) will be countable. The only thing that has changed from the current system is the ratio of mandatory to optional. (Currently 13:5; 2009: 12:6)

Davis Cup points from the whole year are counted as one optional tournament. There was some discussion of whether or not DC could replace one of the 500 events, but I don't remember what was decided.

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 06:17 PM
18 events (+ WTF) will be countable. The only thing that has changed from the current system is the ratio of mandatory to optional. (Currently 13:5; 2009: 12:6)

Davis Cup points from the whole year are counted as one optional tournament. There was some discussion of whether or not DC could replace one of the 500 events, but I don't remember what was decided.

I'm not sure whether DC counts as an addition 500 similar to the TMC or if it can be one of the 18.

So, for example, a player can have:

4 slams
8 TMS
4 500's
2 "other" events
TMC

Aren't 4 500's mandatory for points or is that just for the $$$$$$$?

scarecrows
12-07-2008, 06:19 PM
TMC



WTF

ha!

smucav
12-07-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm not sure whether DC counts as an addition 500 similar to the TMC or if it can be one of the 18.It definitely won't count as an additional event. All players count 18 events (except for players who get into the World Tour Finals).

Aren't 4 500's mandatory for points or is that just for the $$$$$$$?Both. Of course it really only applies to players who are ranked high enough to get in all the tournaments. There are players who won't get into eight masters series or four 500 level events & those players will count other results (250 events, challengers, etc.) instead just like they do now.

kiwi10is
12-07-2008, 06:47 PM
so is it fact that the 2008 points will get doubled?? Why don't they take the 2008 results and recalulate them to the 2009 system??

Garson007
12-07-2008, 06:54 PM
You guys are trying to over-complicate things.It's really pretty simple. :shrug:

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 07:06 PM
WTF

ha!

:lol:

I'm still calling it the TMC, fuck the ATP

Johnny Groove
12-07-2008, 07:08 PM
so is it fact that the 2008 points will get doubled?? Why don't they take the 2008 results and recalulate them to the 2009 system??

That would be too easy :lol:

Instead they want to double all the points and then let it "self-adjust" throughout the season for some reason

duong
12-07-2008, 07:17 PM
Davis cup is counted as an "ATP 500 events", it's written in the "ITF news" document that someone has posted. Then I believe it can count as one for the "4 ATP-500 events" rule ... all the more as everybody knows that the ATP wants the players to play the Davis Cup.

All of this "Count 4 ATP 500" events in your ranking is
all very well in October BUT

How can I work out the Best 4 when only two have been played
in mid February ???


I am not talking about the doubling points

At the Moment you have a Best 5

Will it change on Jan 1 to a Best 4 500 events plus highest others

Or will they just double the whole total without any thought

I think that :

- nothing will be changed for the ATP ranking on the 1st of january, only double points.

- the ATP Race will be calculated with the new system from the 1st of january.

- after Monte-Carlo is played, the ATP rankings will be calculated with 6 optional events instead of 5

- they will only check the "4 ATP-500 events" rule after Washington is played, because after Washington, players can only play 3 more "ATP 500 events" (Davis Cup, Tokyo or Beijing, Basel or Valencia) : if a player who should have done it, has not played any ATP-500 event so far, he will get a "zero point" ; after the Davis-cup final and play-offs, another check : a player should have played at least 2 "ATP 500 events" at that moment ; after Tokyo and Beijing another check : : a player should have played at least 2 "ATP 500 events" at that moment ; and then final check after Basel or Valencia.

duong
12-07-2008, 07:19 PM
That would be too easy :lol:

Actually that would be quite complicated
... and that would trouble people a lot as the rankings would be completely changed on the 1st of january (for instance I believe that Djokovic would be in front of Federer if the 2009-system was applied to the results in 2008).

duong
12-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Another question that they haven't thought about

Nadal has 6,675 with an 18th event not counting of 25

I don't understand : it's Nadal's 19th event.

Maybe you want to take off the Olympic Games'result ?

Or maybe you mean on the 8th of january after Chennai's result is taken off ?

In that case, I believe Nadal's result in Rotterdam last year (25 points) will count for 50=2 times 25.

I think they will also double the points of the tournaments which don't count on the 1st of january but might count later.

duong
12-07-2008, 07:32 PM
Why are they giving you 20 points for losing in the First Round of a 32 draw
ATP 500 event????

I don't think so : I think that the rule "no point can be allowed if you don't win a match, except for masters series or grand slams" will still apply.

And then practically speaking, I think that the 20 points for R32 only apply when the draw is larger than 32.

Hugh Jaas
12-08-2008, 03:33 AM
I don't think so : I think that the rule "no point can be allowed if you don't win a match, except for masters series or grand slams" will still apply.

And then practically speaking, I think that the 20 points for R32 only apply when the draw is larger than 32.


BUT qualifying nets you a 20 points for ATP500 tournaments.
reaching QF of a Non-hospitality challenger tournament awards 13-20 points. Now alot of challenger mugs will qualify for a atp500 MD and tank.

Johnny Groove
12-08-2008, 03:49 AM
BUT qualifying nets you a 20 points for ATP500 tournaments.
reaching QF of a Non-hospitality challenger tournament awards 13-20 points. Now alot of challenger mugs will qualify for a atp500 MD and tank.

Why would they tank after spending the time and effort to qualify?

Action Jackson
12-08-2008, 04:02 AM
You guys are trying to over-complicate things.It's really pretty simple. :shrug:

You're right this pic sums it up.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/GWH2/coversheet_ludicrous.jpg

duong
12-08-2008, 06:21 AM
- the ATP Race will be calculated with the new system from the 1st of january.

- after Monte-Carlo is played, the ATP rankings will be calculated with 6 optional events instead of 5

- they will only check the "4 ATP-500 events" rule after Washington is played

one possible question is whether, for the Race (and the rankings), before the end of the year, the players who have to play 4 "ATP-500 events" will be allowed to count more than 2 results from 2009 season for tournaments which are "ATP-250" (or challengers).

I rather think yes.
I think they will only check the "4 ATP-500 events" rule in the end, or at least from Washington, as I explained.

FedFan_2007
12-08-2008, 09:26 AM
No matter how they count the points in 2009, NaDULL is going to be out of the top 10 guaranteed! (getting an early start on 2009 ACC).

alfonsojose
12-08-2008, 03:50 PM
JesusFed will play only in 3 500 events next year :scratch:

nobama
12-08-2008, 06:08 PM
JesusFed will play only in 3 500 events next year :scratch:Apparently DC counts as a '500' event.

duong
12-16-2008, 03:37 PM
Player Nr. 2
Win in Group:25 Points(max 75)(WHY LESS THAN No 1)


I think less than number 1 because they play against players who have a worse ranking

The Champions Race is going to be dumped on 1 Jan 09 :wavey:

Sorry, I don't speak English well enough and don't understand what it means ?

You mean there will be no more ATP Race ?

Thanks for all your information :worship:

Horatio Caine
12-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Also Steveg is reporting that

The Champions Race is going to be dumped on 1 Jan 09 :wavey:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Then I'm redundant! :sad: :sobbing: :hysteric: :lol:


Thanks for the updates though. Man, this is still confusing. :awww: