Verdasco def Acasuso 6-3 6-7 4-6 6-3 6-1- ARG 1 ESP 3- Spain wins DC [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Verdasco def Acasuso 6-3 6-7 4-6 6-3 6-1- ARG 1 ESP 3- Spain wins DC

Pages : [1] 2

rocketassist
11-23-2008, 06:11 PM
Well done to Nando for showing maturity in arguably the most pressurising event in tennis.

Spain had togetherness and deserved the cup.

ClaudiuS
11-23-2008, 06:11 PM
Verdasco :yeah: well done


Great effort from Chucho :worship:

Albop
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
:worship:

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
¡¡¡VAMOS!!!

scarecrows
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
was everyone waiting for LinkMage to open the thread?

hilarious comedy this match

Voo de Mar
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Congrats Spain, extremely strong team this year :yeah:

List of players who won decisive rubber in Davis Cup finals in the Open Era:

Stan Smith (1971, 1972), Bjorn Borg (1975), John Alexander (1977), John McEnroe (1978, 1981), Pat Cash (1983, 1986), Stefan Edberg (1985), Boris Becker (1989), Guy Forget (1991), Jim Courier (1992), Michael Stich (1993), Pete Sampras (1995), Arnaud Boetsch (1996), Mark Philippoussis (1999, 2003), Juan Carlos Ferrero (2000), Nicolas Escude (2001), Mihail Youzhny (2002), Carlos Moya (2004), Mario Ancic (2005), Marat Safin (2006), Fernando Verdasco (2008)

Always big or very big names :)

Only three players haven't been in Top 10: Boetsch (highest 12th), Escude (17th), Verdasco (11th).

SloKid
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Unreal outcome. :lol:

Cafisho
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Congrats to the spaniards. Great match from Chucho!

kai.
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
congrats to spain,

and iam not a fan of chucho, but thanks for all.

why,marat,why?
11-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Hahaha what an ABSOLUTELY garbage match. Some of the lowest quality I have seen in a while.

Congradulations to Spain though. They absolutely deserve the Cup.

Black Adam
11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
It doesn't get any worse, this is the ultimate choke :lol:

Congrats to Feli-Lo and Verdasco. The shame of losing to a team led by these 2 :haha::rolls:

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
Congrats to Spain, they played like a team and were in it together and they deserve their success.

First team to beat Argentina in Argentina for 10 years since Slovakia with Hrbaty and Kucera did it.

Huge chance blown for Argentina, but they didn't deserve it on that performance, only so much Nalbandian can do, but win as a team and lose as a team.

Björki
11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
:woohoo: :woohoo:

Fer :worship:

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
Dedicated to LinkMage :haha:

jayjay
11-23-2008, 06:14 PM
Congrats Spain. :worship:

A great win for you and a dreadful defeat for us. You got the better of us in the moments that mattered against the odds.

Black Adam
11-23-2008, 06:14 PM
was everyone waiting for LinkMage to open the thread?

hilarious comedy this match

I was. I refreshed the page 3 times and waited for a minute. Then came to the conclusion that the grief had overcome him and v-cash wasn't a priority at the moment :haha::devil:

Bilbo
11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

finishingmove
11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
good effort from chucho, u could see he was really trying his best.

HeretiC
11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
I never used the term mugs match but if I would, it would have been this for this one. At least it had a lot of drama :shrug:

HoistDaColors
11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
List of players who won decisive rubber in Davis Cup finals in the Open Era:

Arthur Ashe (1968), Stan Smith (1971, 1972), Bjorn Borg (1975), Adriano Panatta (1976), John Alexander (1977), John McEnroe (1978), John McEnroe (1981), Pat Cash (1983), Stefan Edberg (1985), Pat Cash (1986), Boris Becker (1989), Guy Forget (1991), Jim Courier (1992), Michael Stich (1993), Pete Sampras (1995), Arnaud Boetsch (1996), Mark Philippoussis (1999), Juan Carlos Ferrero (2000), Nicolas Escude (2001), Mihail Youzhny (2002), Mark Philippoussis (2003), Carlos Moya (2004), Mario Ancic (2005), Marat Safin (2006), Fernando Verdasco (2008)


that was against chucho too :hug:

TheBoiledEgg
11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
Argentina probably would have won DC had Nadull played.
but then again having Del Pansy on your team is a major handicap

never would we thought a team of La Lo and Verdasco would win the DC by themselves :haha: :rolls:

Lopez
11-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Awful match, especially the first few sets. I was really hoping for Chucho to pull it off to see a great final match. But wasn't expecting this! He really fought nicely.

ClaudiuS
11-23-2008, 06:16 PM
anyway Chucho doesn't deserve any critics, He was not even supposed to face such a critical match like this one, tough luck for Argentina, with Del Potro's injury and stuff.

But clearly the surface was a bad choice :tape:

Bilbo
11-23-2008, 06:16 PM
oh happy days

suck it, chucho

kalisita
11-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Congratulations to Spain on Davis Cup title #3! Stunning upset really! I don't think anybody expected them to have a legitimate chance.

Not the greatest match, but Verdasco got it together in the fourth and really withstood the pressure much better than I thought he would. Fantastic win for him! :bigclap:

:hatoff: Acasuso. He did the best he was capable of and almost pulled it off. Had nothing left in the fifth.

Also, :worship: to Lopez for this entire weekend. All respect to Verdasco for today's win, but Feli was the absolute Hero of the Weekend. :yeah:

Garson007
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
was everyone waiting for LinkMage to open the thread?
He's afraid we might call him out on campaigning. :o

LocoPorElTenis
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Congratulations to Spain :hatoff: . A great and most deserving win!

JMDP shares much of the blame, he should definitely have not gone to Shanghai. He's young and he'll qualify for the TMC many times, but reaching a DC final is MUCH MUCH harder, and playing at home even more. Had he had a couple of weeks of rest, he could have very well defeated Lalo the first day, and then Argentina would have won.

This doesn't take away from Spain's merit - Spain has a lot of depth while Argentina has two good players and the rest are mugs, so lots of credit but the fact remains that JMDP blew this big time.

RogiRafaFan86
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Congrats to Spain! They were the best team all year and they all played a part in this. They are what Davis Cup is all about. :worship:

Eden
11-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Congrats to Spain for winning this final in Argentina without their #1 ranked player :yeah: They are the team with the most balanced players.

Too bad for the Argentinians that it wasn't mean to be again to get the DC but with players as Nalbandian and Del Potro in the team they will be amongst the favourite the next years as well. They must be really disappointed now, but what can you do when a player is injured? Chucho tried his best today and it is hard for him to lose again a deciding DC match.

Voo de Mar
11-23-2008, 06:18 PM
that was against chucho too :hug:

Yes, poor Chucho, has lost twice decisive rubber...

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 06:18 PM
As much as I can't stand LaLo, have to give the guy credit he and Verdasco stepped up to the plate and overcame the odds.

del Potro, hope the partying was worth it.

Queens.
11-23-2008, 06:19 PM
Congrats Spain on this amazing victory :worship: Verdasco and Lopez played really well :yeah:

David :yeah:
JMDP :hug:
Acasuso :help:

*snowflake*
11-23-2008, 06:19 PM
:woohoo: Vamooooooos! Enhorabuena chicos :bigclap:

Argies, especially Chucho :hug:

Snoo Foo
11-23-2008, 06:20 PM
:worship: fucking amazing by spain, mad respect to florence & ferdie for keeping the pimp hand strong.... motherfucking sons of bitches

argentina, ahhh... some other day, some other surface, some other.... something... http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/SnooFoo828/emoticon/009.gif

zine56
11-23-2008, 06:20 PM
felicidades españa :hatoff:

Albop
11-23-2008, 06:20 PM
Awful match BTW.

kai.
11-23-2008, 06:21 PM
:worship: fucking amazing by spain, mad respect to florence & ferdie for keeping the pimp hand strong.... motherfucking sons of bitches

argentina, ahhh... some other day, some other surface, some other.... something... http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/SnooFoo828/emoticon/009.gif

:sad::sad::sad::sad:

Alonsofz
11-23-2008, 06:21 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

mickymouse
11-23-2008, 06:22 PM
It's always kind of heartbreaking when the home team doesn't win. Hopefully nobody would put the blame on Chucho. He really played his heart out but seems to be hampered by some discomfort in the fifth set.

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 06:24 PM
I must admit I didn´t see this upset coming in a gazillion years :eek:

Aenea
11-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Congrats, Spain :bigclap:

Congrats Feli, Nando, Rafa, David and all those who participated in DC ties for Spain this season :worship:

Go party now, boys and rest well. Cya in January :wavey:

Bad Religion
11-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Yessssssssssss

The fucking fat whale will never win the Davis Cup

Dedicado a Nalbandian. Soberbio HDP , gana algo primero

HeretiC
11-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Congrats to Spain for winning this final in Argentina without their #1 ranked player :yeah: They are the team with the most balanced players.

Too bad for the Argentinians that it wasn't mean to be again to get the DC but with players as Nalbandian and Del Potro in the team they will be amongst the favourite the next years as well. They must be really disappointed now, but what can you do when a player is injured? Chucho tried his best today and it is hard for him to lose again a deciding DC match.

It is not going to be the same cause they will play as visitors against most of the teams.

I must admit I didn´t see this upset coming in a gazillion years :eek:

I don't think that many predicted it.

Corey Feldman
11-23-2008, 06:32 PM
:lol: if ever needed proof that DC thesedays is a big mug tournament, just look at this final

Aoli
11-23-2008, 06:32 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/Aoli/Seleccion/Lloroso.gif¡BRAVO FERNANDO!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/Aoli/Seleccion/Lloroso.gif

adee-gee
11-23-2008, 06:33 PM
Not a bad ending to a fairly good year of sport for Spain :lol: :hatoff: :worship:

Congrats :yeah:

jonathancrane
11-23-2008, 06:35 PM
PUDIMOS!


The fashions wins the DC :worship: :worship: :worship:

Bilbo
11-23-2008, 06:36 PM
I must admit I didn´t see this upset coming in a gazillion years :eek:

with tools like calleri and chucho it was possible

Black Adam
11-23-2008, 06:37 PM
It will probably be blamed on the venue :devil: Interesting that Big Dave already put most of the blame on JMDP yesterday. You get a cakewalk draw and even that's not enough to win :haha::haha::haha:

shotgun
11-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Awful result for Argie tennis. Chucho was thrown at the lions and did the best he could.

Very deserving title for Verdasco and Lopez.

Jimnik
11-23-2008, 06:40 PM
Well done Nando. I never thought he'd pull it off, even against a weak opponent.

I must say I really thought this would be Argie's year. They had everything going for them but ultimately came short when it mattered. Spain are the strongest tennis nation in the world (rankings don't lie) and they deserve this cup.

RagingLamb
11-23-2008, 06:40 PM
good year for spain

timafi
11-23-2008, 06:41 PM
you did your best Chucho:hug:
Spain without Nadal:hatoff:

man I'm loving my new avy:lol: :lol:

Jelena
11-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Felicidades España! Well done. It was a nerve cracker at its best, I surely lost some years following it on the sb, but I think the party will be endless tonight. :aparty:

*snowflake*
11-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Chucho is breaking my heart, the crowd chanting his name and that face while receiving the trophy :sad:

speedy7
11-23-2008, 06:49 PM
Congrats to Spain!

Kitty de Sade
11-23-2008, 06:50 PM
Deserved congrats to Spain, even though the result stings. All the effort to avoid one player, and in the end it didn't even matter.

Chucho was put into such a tough position- he did the best he could, that's all a fan can ask for. http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0126.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-unhappy-smileys.php)

Sommarsverige
11-23-2008, 06:52 PM
Felicidades to the spanish Davis Cup team :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I am so glad that they got the Cup home and I am extremely happy for Feli and Fer :yeah:

Have a wonderful party tonight, chicos :aparty:

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 06:53 PM
Huge respect for Argentinian fans from my side, I hope they win a DC soon as they deserve it, they will surely learn from this one and come back stronger. I think a team with Nalbandian, JMDP and Schwank will make them champions in no longer than 2/3 years´ time

MariaV
11-23-2008, 06:53 PM
Chucho is breaking my heart, the crowd chanting his name and that face while receiving the trophy :sad:

It was breaking my heart too. :sad: :sad:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 06:55 PM
Huge respect for Argentinian fans from my side, I hope they win a DC soon as they deserve it, they will surely learn from this one and come back stronger. I think a team with Nalbandian, JMDP and Schwank will make them champions in no longer than 2/3 years´ time

Nalby will not be a factor then any more. :o :shrug:
And I cannot express how sad I am for Chucho and Calleri for never getting the DC trophy.

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 06:56 PM
Nalby will not be a factor then any more. :o :shrug:
And I cannot express how sad I am for Chucho and Calleri for never getting the DC trophy.

What is Nalbandian retiring from tennis?

Arkulari
11-23-2008, 07:01 PM
When I knew that Rafa wasn't going to play the final, I thought: ok, so now Argentina 4-1 or 5-0 :rolleyes:
but then, Feliciano and Fernando stepped up and showed that for a pair of metrosexual guys, they have big COJONES :lol: :rocker2:
ESV choose wisely, even if people didn't think he would win
Nando gave the winning point, but Lalo was the man of the weekend, his victory against Del Potro was what changed the series, the turning point
What is so great about Spain is that they are a TEAM, they stuck together for better and worse, had many good players and almost everybody got a chance

ZORIONAK, FELICITATS, FELICIDADES ESPAÑA :rocker:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:05 PM
What is Nalbandian retiring from tennis?

I didn't say he'll retire but he'll be older and slower, 29-30 years old, past his best. :shrug:
Of course they still can do it but it will be even harder than until now. Unless some other miracle Argie talents emerge.

Aenea
11-23-2008, 07:08 PM
What is Nalbandian retiring from tennis?

You understand pretty well what Maria is trying to say why are pretending you don't :rolleyes: She's heartbroken for the Argies just like you.

tangerine_dream
11-23-2008, 07:09 PM
Who's crying for Argentina, I am loving this result. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif I didn't think any team was capable of throwing away a title that was practically handed to them on a silver platter. Choke of the year. :yeah:

Vamos España. http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/1498.gif A deserved win for one of the best Davis Cup teams around. I didn't think the B-squad could win without Rafa but this makes it even better, now the guys who have been forgotten and living in Rafa's shadow will be their country's heroes. Olé Nando and LaLo. :worship:

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:10 PM
You understand pretty well what Maria is trying to say why are pretending you don't :rolleyes: She's heartbroken for the Argies just like you.

No, I don't understand because it's garbage.

There are lot more important things in my life than tennis results, sure I'd have liked Argentina to win, but that didn't happen and they didn't deserve it, therefore saying Nalbandian isn't going to be a factor is rubbish, unless he is injured for a long term or chooses to give up on Davis Cup.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:12 PM
You understand pretty well what Maria is trying to say why are pretending you don't :rolleyes: She's heartbroken for the Argies just like you.

Exactly Aenena, Fat Whale hasn't been able to do it till now, it'll be even less probable he can do it in the years to come with tougher draws.
And Fat Whale is only himself to blame for losing both doubles in the DC finals that were absolutely crucial. :shrug: And Chucho then being put under fire in both of them. Poor Chucho really. :sad:

Tiklish
11-23-2008, 07:13 PM
I dreamed and hoped for a miracle, that because Argentina wanted this on a fast hard court so bad, that it would help Feli, and he'd miraculously be the hero. But him and Verdasco both winning all their matches? I have seen it all. Congratulations chicos! Take that cup home to Rafa who was very there in spirit AND on the telephone.:)

:woohoo:

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:14 PM
I didn't say he'll retire but he'll be older and slower, 29-30 years old, past his best. :shrug:
Of course they still can do it but it will be even harder than until now. Unless some other miracle Argie talents emerge.

He will play as long as he wants to and hasn't gone into decline, the only problem is if he chooses not to play DC for the rest of his career.

Del Potro will be very humbled by this experience and learn to appreciate that certain decisions on injuries can impact on others and Deivid summed up pretty much what they have.

but-it's-ok
11-23-2008, 07:16 PM
Spain deserved to win, they had far greater team spirit:yeah: They are all the more worthy winners since so many people wrote them off as soon as Nadal was ruled out:) Congratulations Spain:worship:

LocoPorElTenis
11-23-2008, 07:16 PM
Argentina will be playing all of the strong teams away for the next few years, it's almost impossible in the next 2-3 years, after that a new generation of players will have emerged and who knows, but for this generation this was the last chance.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:16 PM
No, I don't understand because it's garbage.

There are lot more important things in my life than tennis results, sure I'd have liked Argentina to win, but that didn't happen and they didn't deserve it, therefore saying Nalbandian isn't going to be a factor is rubbish, unless he is injured for a long term or chooses to give up on Davis Cup.

You understand very well what I meant and it's not garbage. Nalby hasn't been up to the task in either of the finals he's played and that in his prime.
He'll be even less of a factor past his prime. :wavey:
Unlike you I think it's Fat Whale who lost the finals for ARG in 2006 and 2008.

Scotso
11-23-2008, 07:17 PM
There are lot more important things in my life than tennis results

Like message board popularity contests?

Kitty de Sade
11-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Who's crying for Argentina, I am loving this result. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif I didn't think any team was capable of throwing away a title that was practically handed to them on a silver platter. Choke of the year. :yeah:

Leave some of us and our hankies alone. Keep it up and I'll cast a 4th round vote for you. :)

At least wait until a proper CST :drink: hour arrives so I can drown my sorrows.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:18 PM
Argentina will be playing all of the strong teams away for the next few years, it's almost impossible in the next 2-3 years, after that a new generation of players will have emerged and who knows, but for this generation this was the last chance.

Ecaxtly. And this is very sad.

zine56
11-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Like message board popularity contests?

:spit:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:22 PM
No, I don't understand because it's garbage.

There are lot more important things in my life than tennis results, sure I'd have liked Argentina to win, but that didn't happen and they didn't deserve it, therefore saying Nalbandian isn't going to be a factor is rubbish, unless he is injured for a long term or chooses to give up on Davis Cup.

You mean this insightful post? :haha: :haha: :haha:

Huge respect for Argentinian fans from my side, I hope they win a DC soon as they deserve it, they will surely learn from this one and come back stronger. I think a team with Nalbandian, JMDP and Schwank will make them champions in no longer than 2/3 years´ time

Fat Dave hasn't been able to do it in his prime, and you think he'll be able to do it in 3 years? :haha: :haha:
Schwank... :haha: :haha:

LocoPorElTenis
11-23-2008, 07:23 PM
Ecaxtly. And this is very sad.

It is but at the end of the day it's just a sport and life goes on. For a small, poor and far-away country, who struggled to even reach the world group for many years, reaching two finals in three years is no small feat. Though sports history only remembers the winners.

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:23 PM
Argentina will be playing all of the strong teams away for the next few years, it's almost impossible in the next 2-3 years, after that a new generation of players will have emerged and who knows, but for this generation this was the last chance.

So what? Nalbandian always delivers in DC and Del Potro and Schwank are still developing as players. If in form they will be a match for any team in the world soon enough

connectolove
11-23-2008, 07:23 PM
TIOS, FELICIDADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Habeis quedado fantasticamente biem y eso que se pensaba que sin Nadal no erais nada, pues venga, ahi tienen.

Congrats to my fellow country men, they truly deserve this one; they are the best team. Great players and great captain.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:25 PM
So what? Nalbandian always delivers in DC and Del Potro and Schwank are still developing as players. If in form they will be a match for any team in the world soon enough

Nalby has certainly delivered in the 2006 and 2008 DC finals. He has given his all in the crucial doubles matches :D :D :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

rocketassist
11-23-2008, 07:26 PM
Like message board popularity contests?

Rather that than whining about equal rights for gays when they already exist.

ChinoRios4Ever
11-23-2008, 07:26 PM
España :worship:

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:29 PM
Nalby has certainly delivered in the 2006 and 2008 DC finals. He has given his all in the crucial doubles matches :D :D :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Is it his fault that he is dedicated to the team and they have for whatever reason struggled to find a reliable number 2 player?

Castafiore
11-23-2008, 07:31 PM
now the guys who have been forgotten and living in Rafa's shadow will be their country's heroes. Olé Nando and LaLo. :worship:
It's been a great team effort all year long but yes, it's good to see other Spanish players get some of the glory as well even though it goes without saying that I would have preferred seeing Rafa there.

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:31 PM
Like message board popularity contests?

Still choosing players you like, just because they are good looking?

propi
11-23-2008, 07:32 PM
So what? Nalbandian always delivers in DC and Del Potro and Schwank are still developing as players. If in form they will be a match for any team in the world soon enough
I'm amazed to agree with Deivid :o
I think Argentina with David and Martín, is a team that can beat most of the other teams around in all surfaces but grass, which is not common in Davis Cup.
The bigger problem I see is their egos, as apparently, the tension between them was unbearable this weekend.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:32 PM
Is it his fault that he is dedicated to the team and they have for whatever reason struggled to find a reliable number 2 player?

Isn't it his fault they have lost the doubles? Calleri tried ALL his best in Moscow but he couldn't beat Safin-Tursunov alone, and certainly Fat Dave could've done better yesterday. :shrug: That's my point.
It's not about Number 2, it's about (Fat Dave) winning both his singles and the doubles match. :D ;) Has he done it in either of the DC finals he has played?

Snoo Foo
11-23-2008, 07:32 PM
:haha: Oh shit

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/SnooFoo828/mtf/survey.jpg

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:34 PM
Nalby has certainly delivered in the 2006 and 2008 DC finals. He has given his all in the crucial doubles matches :D :D :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

I prefer not to waste energies, Maria plzzz, don´t get me started :lol:

Arkulari
11-23-2008, 07:34 PM
Fat Dave will continue to be dedicated to DC, but the problem is that he can't win the Cup ALONE, Argentina hasn't had a consistent second player on the Nalby Era, and he's not super man as to win three matches on a row every time, also they lack a good doubles team (how much practice did Fat Dave got with Gordo? ), so they are gonna be screwed up till they can get a true TEAM like Spain, where everybody pulls their weight :shrug:

I think Argentina would have had a bigger chance on clay with Spain's final line-up :rolleyes:
but since they feared Rafa so much, then they get the retarded decision of playing HC :retard:

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:35 PM
I'm amazed to agree with Deivid :o


Sometimes it´s even a good thing ;)

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:36 PM
I prefer not to waste energies, Maria plzzz, don´t get me started :lol:

Wow, you have nothing more to say about David always delivering in the DC ties all of a sudden? :awww: :haha: :haha: :haha: :wavey:

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:38 PM
Isn't it his fault they have lost the doubles? Calleri tried ALL his best in Moscow but he couldn't beat Safin-Tursunov alone, and certainly Fat Dave could've done better yesterday. :shrug: That's my point.
It's not about Number 2, it's about (Fat Dave) winning both his singles and the doubles match. :D ;) Has he done it in either of the DC finals he has played?

See so you expect Nalbandian to carry this team? That's clownish, they have had enough players, it's not like they are Peru who don't have decent depth among their playing stocks.

Doubles is one match, the fact that there are 4 singles matches and he has won the majority of his singles matches. When they have made the final apart from when they played Russia last time, who was the main guy that got them there.

Think about it, they struggle in the doubles for consistency, but that wouldn't be a factor with a reliable number 2, though in this case del Potro was #1.

Jimnik
11-23-2008, 07:39 PM
Nalbandian has proven time and time again that he can't deliver on the big stage. The punch up with Calleri proves that he's not the character the real Davis Cup greats are.

Hewitt, Roddick and Safin are much better team players than Nalbandian and perform better on the big stage. They also have more focus and determination, especially off the court. That's why they all have slams and Davis Cup medals, something Nalbandian will never have.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:40 PM
Nalbandian has proven time and time again that he can't deliver on the big stage. The punch up with Calleri proves that he's not the character the real Davis Cup greats are.

Hewitt, Roddick and Safin are much better team players than Nalbandian and perform better on the big stage. That's why they all have slams and Davis Cup medals, something Nalbandian will never have.

:yeah:

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:42 PM
Wow, you have nothing more to say about David always delivering in the DC ties all of a sudden? :awww: :haha: :haha: :haha: :wavey:

Do u by any chance know what Nalbandian´s record in DC is? Or do you just focus on players´ looks? :D

alfonsojose
11-23-2008, 07:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m4gZ0gM4Js
:lol:

jayjay
11-23-2008, 07:42 PM
Wow, you have nothing more to say about David always delivering in the DC ties all of a sudden? :awww: :haha: :haha: :haha: :wavey:

Maria, with all due respect to you, what you are saying about Nalbandian is extraordinary.

He is 3-0 in DC Final Singles - including two wins in Russia against Davydenko and Safin.

It is not his job to win every single Argentina tie on his own, singles and doubles, but unfortunately this is what he has had to do 95% of the time for the past few years.

Nalbandian gave us 2pts in the DC Final in 2006 on his own. He gave us 1pt in the DC Final in 2008 in the only singles he played.

Tell me, in the other 4 singles ties played in 2006 and 2008, how many points did his team mates offer to him as support?

Zero.

They can't give him one point.

2006 DC Final was not Russia v Argentina, it was Russia v Nalbandian.

2008 DC Final was not Argentina v Spain, it was Nalbandian v Spain.

Please don't criticise Nalbandian when it comes to Davis Cup, he is the last person who deserves any criticism. Far from him being the reason we haven't won the DC, he's the only reason we have any chance to do so.

Arkulari
11-23-2008, 07:43 PM
I agree with PMK, doubles is one of Argentina's main weaknesses at DC, they can have one of the best single DC players out there, but if they keep losing the doubles matches, then they are one step behind

I think they should get a "exclusive" doubles team like Spain did, 'cuz Nando and Feli played singles only at the last time, because realistically there wasn't anyone else to do it, but the rest of the DC they exclusively played doubles :shrug:

It's not like Argentina doesn't have players to do so, the thing is, Fat Dave has been the Messiah hope all the time and he can't win DC on his own, that's the true :shrug:

the whole point of the Davis Cup is to unite the best players of each country and form a good solid team to beat the rest, and Argentina has never had that :shrug:

Castafiore
11-23-2008, 07:43 PM
Don't you think that Hewitt, Roddick and Safin had a better team to help them win the DC?

Was it Nalbandian's fault that Del Potro opted to go to Shanghai for instance?

As has been said already: Spain can't really fall back on an experienced doubles team (like the US with the Bryans twins) so they tried to come up with a good, decent team and after trying some things out, they chose for Feliciano and Fernando.
Nalbandian and Calleri are not that experienced together, right?

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:44 PM
Nalbandian has proven time and time again that he can't deliver on the big stage. The punch up with Calleri proves that he's not the character the real Davis Cup greats are.


They didn´t look as two guys that have boxed hours ago today tbh, so I don´t think that rumour is true

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:46 PM
Nalbandian has proven time and time again that he can't deliver on the big stage. The punch up with Calleri proves that he's not the character the real Davis Cup greats are.

Hewitt, Roddick and Safin are much better team players than Nalbandian and perform better on the big stage. They also have more focus and determination, especially off the court. That's why they all have slams and Davis Cup medals, something Nalbandian will never have.

Nalbandian took out Hewitt and Safin away from home, oh yeah he can't perform in Davis Cup, don't give me that rubbish. He has won all his singles matches in DC finals, Hewitt and Roddick don't have to play doubles.

What he does on the tour, that's fair game, facts are if he didn't play, then Argentina wouldn't have made finals.

As for the punch up with Calleri, so you know this to be true?

alfonsojose
11-23-2008, 07:46 PM
Like message board popularity contests?
:lol: Poor GWH

Voo de Mar
11-23-2008, 07:48 PM
Spain's three Davis Cup triumphs (2000, 2004, 2008).

* Points for the team:
2 - win in singles the best of five
1 - win in doubles
0.5 - win in singles the best of three

2000

1R: Italy 4-1
QF: Russia 4-1
SF: USA 5-0
F: Australia 3-1

Alex Corretja - 9 points
Juan Carlos Ferrero - 7
Albert Costa - 6
Juan Balcells - 3.5
Francisco Clavet - 0.5

2004

1R: Czech Republic 3-2
QF: Netherlands 4-1
SF: France 4-1
F: USA 3-2

Rafael Nadal - 7
Carlos Moya - 6.5
Juan Carlos Ferrero - 6
Tommy Robredo - 3.5
Feliciano Lopez - 2

2008

1R: Peru 5-0
QF: Germany 4-1
SF: USA 4-1
F: Argentina 3-1

Rafael Nadal - 6
Fernando Verdasco - 5.5
Feliciano Lopez - 5.5
David Ferrer - 4
Nicolas Almagro - 2.5
Tommy Robredo - 2.5

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:49 PM
Don't you think that Hewitt, Roddick and Safin had a better team to help them win the DC?

Was it Nalbandian's fault that Del Potro opted to go to Shanghai for instance?

As has been said already: Spain can't really fall back on an experienced doubles team (like the US with the Bryans twins) so they tried to come up with a good, decent team and after trying some things out, they chose for Feliciano and Fernando.
Nalbandian and Calleri are not that experienced together, right?

LaLo and Verdasco are friends and have played together numerous times and with the make up of the Spanish squad, that is in most cases the best team they can come up with and can be used in singles if necessary.

Of course the other 3 had better balanced teams to work this. Nalbandian/Calleri have played a few times, but it's hit and miss. They could have used Nalbandian/Acasuso and played Calleri in the singles, but Mancini chose this.

Snoo Foo
11-23-2008, 07:49 PM
why didn't they draft pico and maxi g.?

q.j.
11-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Parallel universe 2008 ends with this

what a year :retard:

congrats to the Spain , VERY deserved win

i'm sad for all the Argies here, and in the DC team except for that tool Mancini and Fat ass Dave

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 07:50 PM
The only bad thing of this is all the fuss about LaLo being the hero of the tie, hopefully Verdasco can steal some headlines from him

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:50 PM
They didn´t look as two guys that have boxed hours ago today tbh, so I don´t think that rumour is true

If they did go the knuckle, then Calleri as an ex-boxer wouldn't have been losing that fight.

Action Jackson
11-23-2008, 07:52 PM
why didn't they draft pico and maxi g.?

So they'd definitely lose, then again if they selected those two, it would have been a loss on the 4th day.

freeandlonely
11-23-2008, 07:52 PM
:bigcry::bigcry::hysteric::hysteric:

Really congrats to Spain. Strong.

finishingmove
11-23-2008, 07:52 PM
why didn't they draft pico and maxi g.?

ugh, probably because pico is in ferrer like form, not even that.

and gonzalez outside of clay is a scary thought.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Do u by any chance know what Nalbandian´s record in DC is? Or do you just focus on players´ looks? :D

And you certainly know his doubles record? :D :wavey:
I understand the team selection is not up to Fat Dave though so actually Mancini should answer for not finding the right players for doubles unlike Spain, Russia or other teams. :D

Unlike some other players Nalby is clearly not ready to play 3 matches during a DC weekend.

alfonsojose
11-23-2008, 08:02 PM
I must admit I didn´t see this upset coming in a gazillion years :eek:

The moment Del Potor got injured, it was a toss-up :shrug: Congrats to spaniards :yeah:

Veronique
11-23-2008, 08:02 PM
Congrats Espana!

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 08:05 PM
The moment Del Potor got injured, it was a toss-up :shrug: Congrats to spaniards :yeah:

Yes and when Verdasco was leading 5-1 in the 5th Spain were heavy favs :shrug:

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:05 PM
Unlike some other players Nalby is clearly not ready to play 3 matches during a DC weekend.

Apart from Nalbandian, how many other players are forced to play 3 matches each DC weekend and must nearly always have to win them all for the team to have any chance at winning? And how many of those players have taken their nation to 2 of the last 3 DC finals?

Maria, Nalbandian is not the problem. :angel:

jazar
11-23-2008, 08:05 PM
well done to verdasco. i think most people would have thought he would have choked and he probably would have if he had played someone better. but this should hopefully do wonders for his confidence and see him push on

Del_Toro
11-23-2008, 08:07 PM
¡Qué Viva España!:hatoff:

I am not spaniard but my grandparents are. Therefore I feel myself spaniard to some extent as well. :cool:

These argentines will have nightmares for years! They are a sad case. They had everything to win the Davis Cup once and for all. Playing at home, in the surface they thought suits them better, against a diminished spanish team, perhaps the "weakest" spanish team in the last 10 years. Nalbandian and Del Potro were playing great on hardcourts. Yet they managed to lose again!:nerner:

I don't know if Argentina will have again a chance as good as this one, perhaps not. And they know it...

¡España campeón! :bounce: Don't cry for me Argentina! :tears:

finishingmove
11-23-2008, 08:07 PM
well done to verdasco. i think most people would have thought he would have choked and he probably would have if he had played someone better. but this should hopefully do wonders for his confidence and see him push on

yeah i hope so...

federernadalfan
11-23-2008, 08:08 PM
all that can be said :lol: :haha: @ argentina at missing this great opportunity, i think i'll be laughing for a while at them
and :hatoff: to spain for winning with a lalo verdasco led team, rafa wasn't even needed

Snoo Foo
11-23-2008, 08:09 PM
ugh, probably because pico is in ferrer like form, not even that.

and gonzalez outside of clay is a scary thought.

at least they are 2008 USO semi-finalists with a win over bhupathi and knowles... and a few other tournaments together this year, as opposed to nalby & calleri who haven't played together all year, and not so sure monaco's recent form could be much worse than calleri's (Romain Jouan anyone?) but as we say in my country, it's monday morning quarterbacking. pffft.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:10 PM
I don't know if Argentina will have again a chance as good as this one, perhaps not. And they know it...

We will never have a better chance, but our draw next year is not so bad. We can make the final again where we would be away to either Spain or Russia (probably). We can't beat Spain, but we can beat Russia with a healthy Nalbandian and del Potro.

Denaon
11-23-2008, 08:12 PM
Chucho :hug:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 08:14 PM
Apart from Nalbandian, how many other players are forced to play 3 matches each DC weekend and must nearly always have to win them all for the team to have any chance at winning? And how many of those players have taken their nation to 2 of the last 3 DC finals?

Maria, Nalbandian is not the problem. :angel:

You want names? From the top teams Safin has delived 3 points per weekend countless times. :D
Ljubicic, Ancic have, Ganzalez and Massu, even Fedmug has done it. :D And Rafa has played 3 matches and won all 3 points for Spain.

OK OK I've done arguing, and I know Nalby is not the problem. I just had to be mad at someone. And I couldn't be mad at anyone else. :o ;)

Aenea
11-23-2008, 08:16 PM
This discussion started with questioning Nalby's ability to deliver well in DC in the next 2-3 years. How did it turn on discussing his past performance and blaming him for Argies' losses?

nastoff
11-23-2008, 08:16 PM
I personally think that Del Potro lost the tie for Argentina. His already tight programme was further stretched by going to Shanghai and as a consequence he wasn't 100% for the DC finals. If Del Potro had won his rubber against Lopez, Argentina would have won the tie 99%. Even if they lost the doubles and Del Potro lost to Verdasco, David would have closed it out against Lopez or Ferrer. I think blaming David for losing the doubles is a bit harsh as Verdasco and Lopez is a more tight unit hence the possibility of losing it was there from the offset. David was the strongest link of the team, he always will be as he always takes it seriously. Too bad that he couldn't be surrounded by a supporting cast that would act in the same fashion. But Argentina's shortcomings do not negate anything from Spain's deserved win all the more so when playing without their top gun and best player in the world. If that is not a handicap then I don't know what is. Spain proved a tigher unit and more dedicated to the cause so they managed to pull that big upset.

tiziano27
11-23-2008, 08:18 PM
Apart from Nalbandian, how many other players are forced to play 3 matches each DC weekend and must nearly always have to win them all for the team to have any chance at winning? And how many of those players have taken their nation to 2 of the last 3 DC finals?

Maria, Nalbandian is not the problem. :angel:

Ivan Ljubicic in 2005 played singles and doubles, led his team to victory.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 08:19 PM
We will never have a better chance, but our draw next year is not so bad. We can make the final again where we would be away to either Spain or Russia (probably). We can't beat Spain, but we can beat Russia with a healthy Nalbandian and del Potro.

FAT (Dave's ;)) chance as the final would be in Moscow again. ;)

Klaas_nalbandian
11-23-2008, 08:21 PM
pity really wanted Argentina to win the cup and at least seeing a fifth rubber with David giving the title to his country

Igaarg
11-23-2008, 08:28 PM
España:worship: team work, I congratulate them, they really deserverd to win.
I hated watching Acassuso alone, with Luli, giving the press conference, where were the team? Now I realize we never had one. I´m really sad about it, we have to learn from the spanish team.
So sad, but we deserved to lose, hate to say it.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 08:28 PM
This discussion started with questioning Nalby's ability to deliver well in DC in the next 2-3 years. How did it turn on discussing his past performance and blaming him for Argies' losses?

:shrug: I am only guilty of questioning 29-30-y-o Fat Dave's ability to deliver. :o Then all the guys jumped on me for that. How did I dare. ;)

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:28 PM
You want names? From the top teams Safin has delived 3 points per weekend countless times. :D
Ljubicic, Ancic have, Ganzalez and Massu, even Fedmug has done it. :D And Rafa has played 3 matches and won all 3 points for Spain.

I'm sorry but this is pretty poor evidence.

When Russia have won their DCs, Safin has never won 3 pts. He may have won 3pts in earlier rounds, this is something Nalbandian has done alot, also. Unfortunately for Nalbandian, unlike Safin in 2002, he never had help from a singles player on his team (Youzhny) or in 2007 (Davydenko).

I mean, think about what you're saying here, so if Youzhny had not won in 2002, it would have been Safin's fault for not winning the doubles when he already won two singles ties?

Ljubicic is a good example of a guy who did it, he did it for one year, but even in the final he did not win 3pts, either. Ancic helped him with a point to win the final. Where was the help for Nalbandian?

Federer? When has he ever played in a DC Final? Has he even played in a SF?

Nadal, yes. Nadal is capable of doing it, but he too, has never actually done it. When Spain won the DC v USA, he did not win 3pts, just one.

Gonzalez and Massu? :lol: No offence to the Chileans on the board, who probably will take offence, but what have they ever done in Davis Cup!? How can you compare Gonzalez/Massu as shining examples to Nalbandian when it comes to DC? :D

Ivan Ljubicic in 2005 played singles and doubles, led his team to victory.

He didn't win 3pts in the final, which is what Maria is criticising Nalbandian for and claiming others have done, they haven't.

Even guys like Hewitt and Roddick have had plenty of help. I can assure you, if you gave Scud or the Bryans brothers Argentine passports, Nalbandian would probably have 2 or even 3 Davis Cups by now, but he has to play on his own, virtually all the time with no help whatsoever. We thought he could finally get help from JMDP in this final, but it wasn't to be.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:29 PM
:Then all the guys jumped on me. ;)

Hi Maria, Just want to make it clear, I'm not "jumping on you", I just strongly disagree with what you are claiming to be true and I have tried to explain why. :hatoff:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 08:32 PM
Apart from Nalbandian, how many other players are forced to play 3 matches each DC weekend and must nearly always have to win them all for the team to have any chance at winning? And how many of those players have taken their nation to 2 of the last 3 DC finals?



Jayjay, You did NOT ask about 3 points in the final but playing 3 matches each DC weekend. ;)

And as I said Jay, I just needed the scapegoat. ;) :hug: :hug:
I'm really off now, sorry. :wavey:

fast_clay
11-23-2008, 08:34 PM
I personally think that Del Potro lost the tie for Argentina. His already tight programme was further stretched by going to Shanghai and as a consequence he wasn't 100% for the DC finals. If Del Potro had won his rubber against Lopez, Argentina would have won the tie 99%. Even if they lost the doubles and Del Potro lost to Verdasco, David would have closed it out against Lopez or Ferrer. I think blaming David for losing the doubles is a bit harsh as Verdasco and Lopez is a more tight unit hence the possibility of losing it was there from the offset. David was the strongest link of the team, he always will be as he always takes it seriously. Too bad that he couldn't be surrounded by a supporting cast that would act in the same fashion. But Argentina's shortcomings do not negate anything from Spain's deserved win all the more so when playing without their top gun and best player in the world. If that is not a handicap then I don't know what is. Spain proved a tigher unit and more dedicated to the cause so they managed to pull that big upset.

i hear you... spot on :yeah:

there is no way Nalbandian should be getting critiscised here... dp is where my anger would be if i was argy...

massive kudos to spain for one reason alone: they organise their schedules all year around forming doubles teams... sure, they may not be all that handy, but hey... this weekend, we all knew the doubles wasn't going to be too easy on the eye, and.. in these cases, you'd heavily favour the more experienced pair... so, they end up taking the one rubber which they were actually favourites for...

even robredo and nadal have a run in dubs when they can, so... for running that formula all year they kinda deserve it, as, this is how Davis Cup used to be done, if you wanna check out the most successful nations of all time and check the doubles team involved... the creation of winning doubles teams... spain do that - just like the ex-great nations...

HeretiC
11-23-2008, 08:35 PM
Del Potro will be very humbled by this experience and learn to appreciate that certain decisions on injuries can impact on others and Deivid summed up pretty much what they have.

He will feel very sorry about this if they don't win DC in next years and he will certainly look very diferently on DC as he grows older.

FAT (Dave's ;)) chance as the final would be in Moscow again. ;)

Actually they have a decent chance next year too. They play home against Netherlands then away against France/Czech Republic, then a SF home against USA/Switzerland and a final away against Russia or Spain. Most likely it will be Russia cause they are playing home against Spain too. So it is not a "mission impossible".

Aenea
11-23-2008, 08:37 PM
España:worship: team work, I congratulate them, they really deserverd to win.
I hated watching Acassuso alone, with Luli, giving the press conference, where were the team? Now I realize we never had one. I´m really sad about it, we have to learn from the spanish team.
So sad, but we deserved to lose, hate to say it.

Really? They left him alone doing the presser? :o Poor Chucho. He's done all that he was able to. I felt for him when he was leaving the court crying. All of the Argies team cried those 3 days except for Nalby.

I'm happy Spain won I was rooting for them. But I feel bad for the Argentineans team and their fans.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Jayjay, You did NOT ask about 3 points in the final but playing 3 matches each DC weekend. ;)

Ok, and Nalbandian has done that alot with great success.

And as I said Jay, I just needed the scapegoat. ;) :hug: :hug:

Ok. :lol:

Blame Coria for the defeat, everyone blames him for most things anyway.

I'm really off now, sorry. :wavey:

No worries. :) :wavey:

fast_clay
11-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Even guys like Hewitt and Roddick have had plenty of help. I can assure you, if you gave Scud or the Bryans brothers Argentine passports, Nalbandian would probably have 2 or even 3 Davis Cups by now, but he has to play on his own, virtually all the time with no help whatsoever. We thought he could finally get help from JMDP in this final, but it wasn't to be.

yes... they argentina have never really needed a 'great' doubles team, for they can play well both home and away in singles... but, perhaps what they lack is a doubles specialist who is 'better' than argies best singles player in doubles alone... and, yeah, then, i feel that 2 or 3 cups you mention is possible...

nalbandian should be being carried by a doubles partner... not carrying the team... pretty tough critics who dig at fat dave...

oranges
11-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Congrats to Spain :hatoff: Very sad for the Argies, this was a great opportunity to get that title. As for the blame game, it's absurd to put it on the guy who they basically owe any results in DC for years, including this one. The team as a whole fell short, with del pony earning the right to be punched a couple of times by his teammates for not making sure he's fit for that final as much as possible. Great effort by Chucho :hug:

MariaV
11-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Blame Coria for the defeat, everyone blames him for most things anyway.



No worries. :) :wavey:

Ah OK, I'll blame Coria then. :lol: Bye! :wavey:

tiziano27
11-23-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm sorry but this is pretty poor evidence.

Gonzalez and Massu? :lol: No offence to the Chileans on the board, who probably will take offence, but what have they ever done in Davis Cup!? How can you compare Gonzalez/Massu as shining examples to Nalbandian when it comes to DC? :D


Well, they won gold medal in sigles and doubles in a week, that is really extraordinary achievement.
Ljubic won 7 of 8 singles, and 4 of 4 doubles that year, extraordinary!.

Results don't lie that much, you need to be a really big player to win big things.
Nalbandian besides his talent is not a extraordinary player. He is not a leader in his team, argentina is not a team is just a group of players.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:49 PM
yes... they argentina have never really needed a 'great' doubles team,

I don't think we've never needed a good/great doubles team, I think any nation can do with one of those. It takes the pressure off the main singles players to a degree and gives those same players the pleasure of knowing they won't need to play every day.

Just look at the Roddick/Nalbandian dynamic. Everytime Roddick goes to DC, he pretty much knows if he does his job in singles, US will win because he can count on the Bryans to get the job done. When Nalbandian goes to DC, he knows he has to win both his singles for us to even have a shot, and then he has to help win the doubles as well to make sure.

That's not easy for any player to have to handle, and as I said in this post...
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7857439&postcount=151

It's a bit of a fucking disgrace from all our other players over so many years, that none of them have been able to get "big" wins to help the cause. The only matches many of these guys seem able to win is dead rubbers at home. :rolleyes: And even Calleri couldn't do that this year against British mug. :lol:

jayjay
11-23-2008, 08:51 PM
Well, they won gold medal in sigles and doubles in a week, that is really extraordinary achievement.

What Massu and Gonzalez did at the Olympics was fantastic, but we're talking about Davis Cup, not Olympics. ;)

jonathancrane
11-23-2008, 08:53 PM
I'm sorry but this is pretty poor evidence.

When Russia have won their DCs, Safin has never won 3 pts. He may have won 3pts in earlier rounds, this is something Nalbandian has done alot, also. Unfortunately for Nalbandian, unlike Safin in 2002, he never had help from a singles player on his team (Youzhny) or in 2007 (Davydenko).

I mean, think about what you're saying here, so if Youzhny had not won in 2002, it would have been Safin's fault for not winning the doubles when he already won two singles ties?

Ljubicic is a good example of a guy who did it, he did it for one year, but even in the final he did not win 3pts, either. Ancic helped him with a point to win the final. Where was the help for Nalbandian?

Federer? When has he ever played in a DC Final? Has he even played in a SF?

Nadal, yes. Nadal is capable of doing it, but he too, has never actually done it. When Spain won the DC v USA, he did not win 3pts, just one.

Gonzalez and Massu? :lol: No offence to the Chileans on the board, who probably will take offence, but what have they ever done in Davis Cup!? How can you compare Gonzalez/Massu as shining examples to Nalbandian when it comes to DC? :D



He didn't win 3pts in the final, which is what Maria is criticising Nalbandian for and claiming others have done, they haven't.

Even guys like Hewitt and Roddick have had plenty of help. I can assure you, if you gave Scud or the Bryans brothers Argentine passports, Nalbandian would probably have 2 or even 3 Davis Cups by now, but he has to play on his own, virtually all the time with no help whatsoever. We thought he could finally get help from JMDP in this final, but it wasn't to be.

I'm totally agree with you. Nalbandian deserves a lot of respect for what he has been doing for his coutry in DC. It's really sad to read that crap. And Nalby is still 26, why he is gonna be finished?

fast_clay
11-23-2008, 09:03 PM
That's not easy for any player to have to handle, and as I said in this post...
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7857439&postcount=151



yeah... Nalbo will go down as Argy's biggest patriot from the golden generation of players... by far...

I actually enjoy his stance, conducting his own schedule... points and the atp will look after itself... he is pretty much untouchable as far as critisism goes... when you think about it...

HeretiC
11-23-2008, 09:03 PM
Nalbandian record in DC:

Singles 17 won, 4 lost
Doubles 10 won, 5 lost.

GlennMirnyi
11-23-2008, 09:10 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

That's what happens when you depend on mugs like Del Pony and Homo Acasuso to win.

Concerning the match, it was pure crap. Mugdasco tried to choke it, many times. Served like Coria for 4 sets but still Homo Acasuso threw it all away.

Jimnik
11-23-2008, 09:16 PM
Don't you think that Hewitt, Roddick and Safin had a better team to help them win the DC?

Was it Nalbandian's fault that Del Potro opted to go to Shanghai for instance?

As has been said already: Spain can't really fall back on an experienced doubles team (like the US with the Bryans twins) so they tried to come up with a good, decent team and after trying some things out, they chose for Feliciano and Fernando.
Nalbandian and Calleri are not that experienced together, right?
The arguing certainly didn't help. Look at USA's "dream team" in 1984. You can put together the greatest individuals and they'll still self-destruct if the frame of mind is wrong.

Nalbandian's failure to create an established doubles team is part of his problem. He doesn't play enough on tour and hence doesn't play enough doubles with his countrymen. So he's failed to form the relationships with his team-mates. Whereas Safin, for example, could team up with Andreev, Tursunov or Youzhny and form a partnership capable of beating anyone. His team-mates always perform better when he's travelling with them - results speak for themselves.


Nalbandian took out Hewitt and Safin away from home, oh yeah he can't perform in Davis Cup, don't give me that rubbish. He has won all his singles matches in DC finals, Hewitt and Roddick don't have to play doubles.

What he does on the tour, that's fair game, facts are if he didn't play, then Argentina wouldn't have made finals.

As for the punch up with Calleri, so you know this to be true?
So poor Nalbandian has been cursed with mug team-mates and bad luck. Don't give me that rubbish. He's had more top 50/top 100 team-mates than Hewitt, Roddick and Safin ever had.

This year Argentina played all their ties at home against weakened opposition. Britain without Murray, Russia without Safin and Youzhny and Spain without Nadal and Ferrer completely out of form, and they still didn't win. If they can't win under those circumstances then they never will.

They couldn't even beat Slovakia in 2005 with two top 10 singles players. Also Sweden in 2007 with Canas in-form. At least USA beat the Czechs on clay. Croatia won playing with only two players and three out of four ties away. Even Ljubicic is a greater Davis Cup player than Nalbandian will ever be.

No matter how many times Nalbandian beats Federer and Nadal, he'll never be a great. Argentina can keep producing generations of top players but without commitment and team togetherness they'll never win.

FedFan_2007
11-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Nando :worship: will be a factor in 2009! I see him as a top 10 finish.

Jillian
11-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Congratulations to the Spanish players, in the end they fully deserved their victory.

I don't think anybody really gave them a chance once Rafa had withdrawn & Ferru was in the kind of form he was.....

Black Adam
11-23-2008, 09:33 PM
This should help Lalo and Verdasco's confidence next season. That's pretty pathetic from Acasuso to lose to a guy playing his first live rubber :rolls::devil:

jayjay
11-23-2008, 09:35 PM
So poor Nalbandian has been cursed with mug team-mates and bad luck. Don't give me that rubbish. He's had more top 50/top 100 team-mates than Hewitt, Roddick and Safin ever had.

Jimnik, have you just got a beef with Nalbandian or something? Beef that he hasn't yet eaten?

"He's had more top50/top100 than Hewitt/Roddick/Safin ever had"...Yeah, and how many times did any of them ever win a singles rubber that mattered? :lol:

It's Nalbandian's fault that Coria lost 2 out of 2 in Slovakia? Nalbandian's fault that Chela/Acasuso couldn't win one match between them in Russia? Nalbandian's fault that Del Potro/Acasuso couldn't win one match between them in Argentina v Spain?

Yeah, you're right. It is his fault. He ruined everything with his rumoured tantrums and it was too much for the rest of the squad to handle and compose themselves to win A match. :lol:

This year Argentina played all their ties at home against weakened opposition. Britain without Murray, Russia without Safin and Youzhny and Spain without Nadal and Ferrer completely out of form, and they still didn't win. If they can't win under those circumstances then they never will.

It was a great opportunity, but to say we will never win, is over stating the fact. We have a chance to win in 2009, have you seen the draw? There isn't a team we don't have the capability to beat other than Spain on clay. We have the capability to beat Spain on any other surface, but we didn't get the job done this time and that's credit to the Spanish.

They couldn't even beat Slovakia in 2005 with two top 10 singles players. Also Sweden in 2007 with Canas in-form. At least USA beat the Czechs on clay. Croatia won playing with only two players and three out of four ties away. Even Ljubicic is a greater Davis Cup player than Nalbandian will ever be.

lol give Nalbandian - Ancic or the Bryans or Scud for one year, and watch him win a DC with ease.

No matter how many times Nalbandian beats Federer and Nadal, he'll never be a great. Argentina can keep producing generations of top players but without commitment and team togetherness they'll never win.

If people want to criticise Nalbandian for his on tour attitude, he is more than open to it. When it comes to DC, he has given everything, all the time. He's not to blame for the failures of his many team mates who could never win even one remotely tough match. Aside from JMDP v Russia this year, Nalbandian has been playing alone.

You even trying to compare what Nalbandian has played with to what Safin has played with is absurd. Davydenko/Andreev/Youzhny/Tursunov have all put up big spot wins for Russia to aid the cause - Nalbandian has no such assistance.

How can you even try and argue anything else? His singles record speaks for itself.

scoobs
11-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Congratulations to Spain, and especially to Verdasco and Lopez, who performed superbly to snatch this away - they were not fancied to win this tie, and they got a bit of help with Del Potro's injury, but regardless, they achieved a great thing for themselves and their country.

As for Argentina...they will spend a lot of time wondering how this all went wrong. No tie is a given, especially not a final, but they had as many advantages as you can have, and still had a chance even without Del Potro, albeit a slim one...I'm sure it's a bitter irony that their first home tie loss in many years is the one that's the final.

GlennMirnyi
11-23-2008, 09:37 PM
I don't think it was ever in doubt that Ljubicic >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nalbandian in DC.

At the necessary times Truba raised his game, while Fat Dave chokes time and time again.

Voo de Mar
11-23-2008, 09:46 PM
Two drama's of Chucho.

2006

http://www.menstennisforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187634&d=1227487914

2008

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7b/fullj.3e116a10672ad398b5a08179c69fc8ac/3e116a10672ad398b5a08179c69fc8ac-getty-tennis-davis-arg-esp-acasuso.jpg

SwiSha
11-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Dedicated to LinkMage :haha:

:lol: :haha:

fabolous
11-23-2008, 10:02 PM
So poor Nalbandian has been cursed with mug team-mates and bad luck. Don't give me that rubbish. He's had more top 50/top 100 team-mates than Hewitt, Roddick and Safin ever had.

This year Argentina played all their ties at home against weakened opposition. Britain without Murray, Russia without Safin and Youzhny and Spain without Nadal and Ferrer completely out of form, and they still didn't win. If they can't win under those circumstances then they never will.

They couldn't even beat Slovakia in 2005 with two top 10 singles players. Also Sweden in 2007 with Canas in-form. At least USA beat the Czechs on clay. Croatia won playing with only two players and three out of four ties away. Even Ljubicic is a greater Davis Cup player than Nalbandian will ever be.

No matter how many times Nalbandian beats Federer and Nadal, he'll never be a great. Argentina can keep producing generations of top players but without commitment and team togetherness they'll never win.
this is ridiculous. nalbandian has carried this team again and again for the past years, and now people like you bash him. sure, the cup was at argentina to win this year, they didn't do it for numerous reasons, but certainly nalby is not the first to blame. you are giving a perfect example with ljubicic - he lost to hrbaty in the final, but ancic was able to step in. now truba is the hero and nalby the loser --> epic fail.

congrats spain btw.

GlennMirnyi
11-23-2008, 10:13 PM
The difference is that Truba raised his level. Hrbaty was just playing better that day.

Fattie, on the other hand, played ridiculously in two finals in a row in the doubles match. First in Russia, then at home.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 10:16 PM
Fattie, on the other hand, played ridiculously in two finals in a row in the doubles match. First in Russia, then at home.

Hold on a minute!? So you're saying Nalbandian is just that good that really he just needs to show up and he should win all Davis Cup ties on his own, for all time.

And here was me thinking you didn't rate him! :hug:

Not only do you rate him, you think he's fucking amazing. :eek:

GlennMirnyi
11-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Hold on a minute!? So you're saying Nalbandian is just that good that really he just needs to show up and he should win all Davis Cup ties on his own, for all time.

And here was me thinking you didn't rate him! :hug:

Not only do you rate him, you think he's fucking amazing. :eek:

No.

I think he hasn't underplayed at all, but the way people in here paint him, that's what he should have done.

Ljuba Truba, on the other hand, is completely underrated.

MariaV
11-23-2008, 10:29 PM
It’s a devastating blow for the Argentines who came into this final as the firm favourites following the withdrawal of the injured Nadal. What the defeat has left is an unbeaten record in tatters and a shell-shocked team who will need a long time to reform and recuperate as a unit, ready to start all over again in the first round ties in March. But this time it will be without Alberto Mancini, who announced he will now step down as Argentine captain.

http://www.daviscup.com/news/matchreport.asp?articleid=15475

So Mancini retired.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 10:35 PM
Ljuba Truba, on the other hand, is completely underrated.

Who underrates him?

Ljubicic got alot of credit for what he did in DC, that one year.

Do you expect people to give him credit for his abysmal GS record - including the multiple 1R/2R KOs?

Eden
11-23-2008, 10:48 PM
Regarding Del Potros decision to play in Shanghai: Have there been any discussions going around with the Argentinian team whether he should skip the TMC to concentrate on the Daviscup?

He qualified for the first time for the Masters Cup and therefore it is understandable that he wanted to participate there, but a more experienced player would have probably made another decision and rest for the DC.

But as DC is a teamevent it's not fair to blame him alone. He was the player who won the deciding point in the SF against Russia.

On the other hand it's easy to say afterwards he would have won the needed points in the singles if he would have been healthy. In the end you only play as good as your opponent allows you and one has to give credit to Lopez for his performance this weekend.

The Argentinian team has two great players with Nalbandian and Del Potro and apart from a tie against Spain on clay they have chances in every encounter they play away.

LinkMage
11-23-2008, 10:51 PM
was everyone waiting for LinkMage to open the thread?

hilarious comedy this match

I was. I refreshed the page 3 times and waited for a minute. Then came to the conclusion that the grief had overcome him and v-cash wasn't a priority at the moment :haha::devil:


Glad you guys missed me. :D
I was studying at a friends house cause I have an exam tomorrow. Can't be here 24/7 like some of you do.


About the match, I never expected Acasuso to win this match. In fact I was surprised he was up 2 sets to 1. The only one to blame for this loss is Del Mugtro who decided to go to Shanghai because he's a greedy bastard instead of staying here resting for the final.


PS: I nearly doubled my vCash thanks to Verdasco. :D

Enjoy Incubus
11-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Glad you guys missed me. :D
I was studying at a friends house cause I have an exam tomorrow. Can't be here 24/7 like some of you do.


About the match, I never expected Acasuso to win this match. In fact I was surprised he was up 2 sets to 1. The only one to blame for this loss is Del Mugtro who decided to go to Shanghai because he's a greedy bastard instead of staying here resting for the final.


PS: I nearly doubled my vCash thanks to Verdasco. :D
I have one plane ticket to Spain. Do you fucking care?

SwiSha
11-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Glad you guys missed me. :D
I was studying at a friends house cause I have an exam tomorrow. Can't be here 24/7 like some of you do.


and of course you wouldnt have been around here if Chucho had won this right

marcRD
11-23-2008, 11:08 PM
Just how bad is Chuchos backhand? I mean seriously, it is so bad I can barely remind seeing any backhand this bad in any single match except Karlovic and Isner. I mean the slice is an atrocity and it was the only thing he could use for all the match. Verdasco is not much better, he could barely play to Chuchos backhand but when he did the match was most of the time over, well lucky chucho that Verdasco doesnt have a brain. However this match went to Verdasco and I must say this is the worst match that has gone to 5 sets I can remember to have seen, I am sure there have been worse matches but I just cant remember them, this one I think I will remember but there is nothing I would like more than to erase the existense of this match from my memory.

GlennMirnyi
11-23-2008, 11:10 PM
Who underrates him?

Ljubicic got alot of credit for what he did in DC, that one year.

Do you expect people to give him credit for his abysmal GS record - including the multiple 1R/2R KOs?

When Fatbaldian loses in Wimbledon's first round to freaking Dancevic, it's no big deal, right?

LinkMage
11-23-2008, 11:18 PM
I have one plane ticket to Spain. Do you fucking care?

:confused:
Sorry, Spain is the last place on Earth I would visit.

and of course you wouldnt have been around here if Chucho had won this right

Nope. Can't you read? I wasn't at home.
Hope this helps.

jayjay
11-23-2008, 11:21 PM
When Fatbaldian loses in Wimbledon's first round to freaking Dancevic, it's no big deal, right?

Are you stupid or intellectually dishonest?

You stated that Ljubicic was underrated.

I mentioned that he got plenty of well deserved credit for his DC run, but what else should he be credited for - his dreadful slam record?

You then bring up a Nalbandian 1R KO. :lol: Emphasis on A, as opposed to many, many. If you want to make it about Nalbandian v Ljubicic, that's up to you, amuse yourself.

I asked a simple question, care to answer it?

ps. Re: Nalbandian's Wimbledon defeat - a dreadful performance and result for Nalbandian. What next? Going to continue avoiding a simple question posed?

I'll ask again, try and come up with a better response than Nalbandian losing to Dancevic, because it doesn't really come close to answering the question - why is Ljubicic underrated? What should he be getting credit for that he has not?

If you're going to waste my time with some BS answer, don't bother.

Deivid23
11-23-2008, 11:24 PM
:confused:
Sorry, Spain is the last place on Earth I would visit.



:haha:

SwiSha
11-23-2008, 11:30 PM
Nope. Can't you read? I wasn't at home.
Hope this helps.

ah it was another LinkMage who posted in the Gamblers Longe livescore thread :lol:

you vanished as soon as Chucho was losing, what a coincidence :haha:

LinkMage
11-23-2008, 11:37 PM
ah it was another LinkMage who posted in the Gamblers Longe livescore thread :lol:

you vanished as soon as Chucho was losing, what a coincidence :haha:


Wow, you are dense.

I wasn't at home when the match finished hence I couldn't start this thread. I left home in the middle of the 4th set.


Do you want any more details about my life? :rolleyes:

SwiSha
11-23-2008, 11:39 PM
whatever you say homes :lol:

Sunset of Age
11-23-2008, 11:47 PM
Congrats to Spain! :yeah: :hatoff:

No little feat, beating the Argentines on their home turf, in front of a very hostile crowd (I know... it's DC :rolleyes:), without their best player, and on a surface they'd most probably not have chosen themselves - to say the least.

As for the Argentines... if ever they were close to get that trophy, it was now. Nalby underperformed (IMHO), and with DelPony being injured, a lot of bad luck came their way when they really didn't need it. :(
Still I have to say that it is obvious now that concentrating on ONE of the opponent's team's possible players in chosing the surface has eventually made them shoot in their own feet. They apparently didn't expect a Lopez in such a good form - and when he is, he is a fantastic S/V HC-player as we all could see. So eventually the advantage of being able to choose the surface became their ultimate downfall...

Better luck next time, Argies! :hug:

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 12:00 AM
Are you stupid or intellectually dishonest?

You stated that Ljubicic was underrated.

I mentioned that he got plenty of well deserved credit for his DC run, but what else should he be credited for - his dreadful slam record?

You then bring up a Nalbandian 1R KO. :lol: Emphasis on A, as opposed to many, many. If you want to make it about Nalbandian v Ljubicic, that's up to you, amuse yourself.

I asked a simple question, care to answer it?

ps. Re: Nalbandian's Wimbledon defeat - a dreadful performance and result for Nalbandian. What next? Going to continue avoiding a simple question posed?

I'll ask again, try and come up with a better response than Nalbandian losing to Dancevic, because it doesn't really come close to answering the question - why is Ljubicic underrated? What should he be getting credit for that he has not?

If you're going to waste my time with some BS answer, don't bother.

:lol:

Don't need to lose your temper.

Ljuba Truba never got half the credit Fatbaldian gets and he won the DC, facing a harder draw. I'm not talking about his GS record.

I brought it to show the double standards. Truba loses in the first round = loser. Fat Dave does the same = he's apparently "keeping his best for what really matters to him - DC". It's always the same excuse. That if he "played his best he'd beat anyone". This is a joke.

Ljubicic made it to #3 and for some time, he was playing way better than Nadull, until his level dropped a lot. He never got the credit for that.

I'm sure you wasted more time cheering loser Mugchucho today. :)

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 12:42 AM
Spain is a TEAM, Argentina isn't, that's why they lost
Period :shrug:

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 12:43 AM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/7b/fullj.3e116a10672ad398b5a08179c69fc8ac/3e116a10672ad398b5a08179c69fc8ac-getty-tennis-davis-arg-esp-acasuso.jpg

Poor fellow. I feel for the guy. :hug:

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 01:01 AM
Chucho has nothing to be ashamed for, he fought till the end even if he was in a real bad form and didn't know whether he was going to play or not till the last minute :hug:

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 01:02 AM
Chucho has nothing to be ashamed for, he fought till the end even if he was in a real bad form and didn't know whether he was going to play or not till the last minute :hug:

Yep. And all the pressure he was under, more or less having no other task than to SAVE his entire team... just a bit too much for him.

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 01:06 AM
yeah, it was really sad when I saw the tears on his eyes :sad:
Also, I gotta say that the Spanish team behave like real GENTLEMEN both in and outside the court, when they told the spanish fans to chant Argentina, it was really nice from them! :D
As usual, in the Argie side, Fat Dave pulled a diva move and got fined :rolleyes: but the rest of the guys behaved fine as well :D

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 01:12 AM
yeah, it was really sad when I saw the tears on his eyes :sad:

I really wanted to give the guy a HUGE BIG :hug:.

Also, I gotta say that the Spanish team behave like real GENTLEMEN both in and outside the court, when they told the spanish fans to chant Argentina, it was really nice from them! :D

:yeah: That's just SUPER. Great gesture from the Spanish guys indeed. :worship:

As usual, in the Argie side, Fat Dave pulled a diva move and got fined :rolleyes: but the rest of the guys behaved fine as well :D

I really don't know what to think of Dave anymore. I felt for him when he lost that final in Basel recently... but here I think this loss was more due to him than to any other member of the Argentinian team. He clearly underperformed, didn't bring the goods when he should have. You just can't blame DelPony for getting injured (of course he wanted to play the TMC!), nor Acasuso for simply not being such a good player.

That said - the Spanish team really DESERVED this victory, with Lalo playing exquisite HC-tennis and Nando doing his job like he needed to.

l_mac
11-24-2008, 01:38 AM
I really don't know what to think of Dave anymore. I felt for him when he lost that final in Basel recently... but here I think this loss was more due to him than to any other member of the Argentinian team. He clearly underperformed, didn't bring the goods when he should have. You just can't blame DelPony for getting injured (of course he wanted to play the TMC!), nor Acasuso for simply not being such a good player.


Um, as Nalbandian was the only member of the Argentinian side to score a point I fail to see how blame for the loss could be placed at his door. He's carried that Argentinian team for 4 years. His commitment and passion for the Davis Cup cannot be questioned.

Maybe Del Potro's decision to put TMC before the DC final is understandable, and it entirely up to him how he prioritises his career, but if you think it played no part in Argentina's defeat you are wrong. He made his choice and now he has to live with it :shrug:

connectolove
11-24-2008, 01:40 AM
yeah, it was really sad when I saw the tears on his eyes :sad:
Also, I gotta say that the Spanish team behave like real GENTLEMEN both in and outside the court, when they told the spanish fans to chant Argentina, it was really nice from them! :D
As usual, in the Argie side, Fat Dave pulled a diva move and got fined :rolleyes: but the rest of the guys behaved fine as well :D


Agreed.

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 01:42 AM
Of course, it's easy to be nice and gentlemanly when you're the winner. :lol:

connectolove
11-24-2008, 01:43 AM
[QUOTE=LinkMage;7860443]:confused:
Sorry, Spain is the last place on Earth I would visit.

Because u r an idiot; Spain is one of the greatest countries to visit.

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 01:44 AM
Um, as Nalbandian was the only member of the Argentinian side to score a point I fail to see how blame for the loss could be placed at his door. He's carried that Argentinian team for 4 years. His commitment and passion for the Davis Cup cannot be questioned.

Maybe Del Potro's decision to put TMC before the DC final is understandable, and it entirely up to him how he prioritises his career, but if you think it played no part in Argentina's defeat you are wrong. He made his choice and now he has to live with it :shrug:

He's responsible because he f***ed up the doubles.

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 01:50 AM
Um, as Nalbandian was the only member of the Argentinian side to score a point I fail to see how blame for the loss could be placed at his door. He's carried that Argentinian team for 4 years. His commitment and passion for the Davis Cup cannot be questioned.

As I said... I just don't know what to think about him anymore. I know he can be a FANTASTIC player - and I don't doubt his commitment to the DC at all. But one can't deny that he showed a really POOR performance at the doubles here... and besides that, a (expected) victory against a completely out-of-form Ferrer isn't a thing to boast about. :shrug:

Maybe Del Potro's decision to put TMC before the DC final is understandable, and it entirely up to him how he prioritises his career, but if you think it played no part in Argentina's defeat you are wrong. He made his choice and now he has to live with it :shrug:

True. I never claimed that it played 'no part' in Argentina's defeat, though. Of course it did, but as tennis eventually is an INDIVIDUAL sport, you can't blame the fellow for choosing to play the TMC, even if it perhaps cost the guys the DC-title in the end.

Of course, it's easy to be nice and gentlemanly when you're the winner. :lol:

It is, but it's always nice to show your graciousness, whatever the circumstances. At least I happen to think so. ;)

TankingTheSet
11-24-2008, 01:54 AM
I really wanted to give the guy a HUGE BIG :hug:.


Interesting typo. I think you need a brain scan ;) :p

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 01:56 AM
Interesting typo. I think you need a brain scan ;) :p

:confused: :confused: :confused:

You probably mean well. ;)

EDIT: oops, I just understood. :haha: :yeah:

l_mac
11-24-2008, 02:02 AM
He's responsible because he f***ed up the doubles.

Okay.
As I said... I just don't know what to think about him anymore. I know he can be a FANTASTIC player - and I don't doubt his commitment to the DC at all. But one can't deny that he showed a really POOR performance at the doubles here... and besides that, a (expected) victory against a completely out-of-form Ferrer isn't a thing to boast about. :shrug:

He was playing doubles because Del Pony lost his singles match. I wouldn't say he was the weaker player on the Argentinian side of the net.

True. I never claimed that it played 'no part' in Argentina's defeat, though. Of course it did, but as tennis eventually is an INDIVIDUAL sport, you can't blame the fellow for choosing to play the TMC, even if it perhaps cost the guys the DC-title in the end.

Right, and I don't blame him at all. It's up to every individual player to decide what matters more to them. But a lot more of the blame for the DC loss lies at his door than Nalby's.

But, actually, this was Spain's victory, rather than Argenina's loss. :yeah:

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 02:06 AM
It was Lalo's victory.

He was, without any doubt, the best player of the weekend and the decisive factor in doubles.

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 02:08 AM
Of course, it's easy to be nice and gentlemanly when you're the winner. :lol:

yeah, but they could have done something to taunt the public or overdo the celebration like Eto'o did once (something like Madrid, c***bron, saluda al campeón? :rolleyes: ) or maybe pull a Djoker and start punching their chests... :rolleyes: ;)

I don't deny Fat Dave's passion for DC, but he behaved like a jerk, refused to go to a press conference and got fined, a really sore loser :rolleyes:

I agree with you Gu in the Lalo issue ;) seems like he was the one who pep-talked Nando and it worked :lol:

the Argie's tactic of choosing HC came back to bit them in the ass :p

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 02:10 AM
yeah, but they could have done something to taunt the public or overdo the celebration like Eto'o did once (something like Madrid, c***bron, saluda al campeón? :rolleyes: ) or maybe pull a Djoker and start punching their chests... :rolleyes: ;)

I don't deny Fat Dave's passion for DC, but he behaved like a jerk, refused to go to a press conference and got fined, a really sore loser :rolleyes:

Again, tennis ain't football, you should never compare.

Their behaviour was the behaviour of a winner. Why would they taunt thousands of angry Argies? As I said, it's very easy to be gentlemanly when you're the winner.

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 02:11 AM
Right, and I don't blame him at all. It's up to every individual player to decide what matters more to them. But a lot more of the blame for the DC loss lies at his door than Nalby's.

When you look at it purely objectively, I guess you're right. But I just can't help myself and take into consideration the difference between Nalby's and DelPo's ages, experience, etc. DelPo is just a very young guy who recently had an awesome streak, but when it comes to experience, managing your career, making the proper choices what to play and what not, and the like... face it, in the end, he's just a puppy. A very promising one, that must be said.
Whereas Nalby... YEARS of experience, and still not being able to bring the goods when it's necessary. :(

But, actually, this was Spain's victory, rather than Argenina's loss. :yeah:

Fully agree with you here. I'd even go as far and put my foot in my mouth and say that it was LaLo's victory most of all. :D

EDIT: I just noticed Gu has already beaten me on this one... ;)

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 02:12 AM
Again, tennis ain't football, you should never compare.

Their behaviour was the behaviour of a winner. Why would they taunt thousands of angry Argies? As I said, it's very easy to be gentlemanly when you're the winner.


yeah, football is different, but like I said, they could have pull a Djoker-at-the-USO and start taunting the public; in fact, during the whole tie, they behaved even better than the Argies themselves :shrug:

Pics lost badly and still he was man enough to do the presser after his match and to talk at the end of the DC cup with the Argie media :shrug:

Karin, I'm the third one to think the same: Lalo was the MAN in this DC Final, he pulled all his weight to win, he won his singles rubber and when Nando was choking at the doubles (how do you go from 5-1 to 6-6, ask Nando :rolleyes: ), Lalo got him out of the hole ;)

(let's wait for the biggest hater of his fellow countryman Feliciano López :rolleyes: )

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 02:28 AM
I do have the feeling that Fat Dave is a bit of a sore loser all the time, he has a huge ego, maybe because he's been over-hyped? (he's called Rey David :rolleyes: )
still, it was really disappointing :shrug:
Chucho on the other hand, cried but took everything like a man and didn't go the diva way :clap2:

GlennMirnyi
11-24-2008, 02:33 AM
Of course Fattie is an ego queen.

Check the way people treat him.

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 02:35 AM
I still cannot get over my surprise on Lalo, he's definitely Spain's #2 right now, even above Nando :yeah:

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 02:36 AM
yeah, football is different, but like I said, they could have pull a Djoker-at-the-USO and start taunting the public; in fact, during the whole tie, they behaved even better than the Argies themselves :shrug:

I know there are plenty people around that seem to think that there should be more 'bad blood' between tennis players than there currently is. Unnecessary to say so (again), I vehemently disagree.

The Spanish team acted very graciously towards their opponents and the crowd after the match, might well have been because they fully realized that the Argentinians had been bestowed the favourites-role upon them after Rafa withdrew - but still, whatever the reason, they behaved as GENTLEMEN, and I appreciate that very, very much. :worship:

The moment tennis players and/or crowds will start to behave as regular football hooligans - I'll be merely cheering for those that manage to keep their composure and behave as ADULTS. ;)

EDIT: there have been quite a few very gracious football players around as well. Jari Litmanen, Jürgen Klinsmann, amongst others, come to mind. :worship:

Pics lost badly and still he was man enough to do the presser after his match and to talk at the end of the DC cup with the Argie media :shrug:

:yeah: Pics... :hug: - hopefully he'll find back his form again. At least he showed himself to be a MAN and appear at the presser, indeed! :yeah:

Karin, I'm the third one to think the same: Lalo was the MAN in this DC Final, he pulled all his weight to win, he won his singles rubber and when Nando was choking at the doubles (how do you go from 5-1 to 6-6, ask Nando :rolleyes: ), Lalo got him out of the hole ;)

Lalo was indeed THE MAN, here. Glad to see his great S/V-game to come into full fruitition at this DC-tie. I'm no fan of his personality but I can't deny that I LOVE to see the guy play when he's at his best. :worship:

Faker is a classless uneducated prick.

His behaviour isn't normal by educated people's standards.

It's rather uncalled for to bring Djoko into this discussion I think. He's a very young fellow as well, and yes, he's made some mistakes in the past - but that doesn't mean we should continue and bring his mistakes into the discussion at each and every time. Let his racket do the talking rather than anything else. ;)

alfonsojose
11-24-2008, 02:45 AM
nalbandian should be being carried by a doubles partner... not carrying the team... pretty tough critics who dig at fat dave...
I agree. Poor guy. But the ridiculous hype surrounding him in Argentina doesn't help.

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 02:50 AM
I know there are plenty people around that seem to think that there should be more 'bad blood' between tennis players than there currently is. Unnecessary to say so (again), I vehemently disagree.

The Spanish team acted very graciously towards their opponents and the crowd after the match, might well have been because they fully realized that the Argentinians had been bestowed the favourites-role upon them after Rafa withdrew - but still, whatever the reason, they behaved as GENTLEMEN, and I appreciate that very, very much. :worship:



:hug: :hug:

I do agree with you Karin, my point is: they could have gloated and taunted the audience, but they DIDN'T and proved themselves to be gentlemen in and outside the court :yeah:

Pics even said nice things about the Argie crowd even if they called his mates names and insulted them :shrug:

Thankfully, the third day crowd was much decent than the second day one and they behaved much better and clapped for the spaniards when they were doing the round around the court ;)

Lalo is a GREAT HC player when he believes on himself and has his mind right, I'm not saying that he would beat Murray or Djoker or Roger tomorrow, but still, he's among the top 10-15 HC players out there and really showed his form here at the DC, in reality, he took the brunt of the work and like one said in spanish: "se echó el equipo al hombro" and maybe that's why Nando didn't choke, because he saw that Lalo could do it, so there was hope for them :wavey:

alfonsojose
11-24-2008, 02:51 AM
well done to verdasco. i think most people would have thought he would have choked and he probably would have if he had played someone better. but this should hopefully do wonders for his confidence and see him push on

:scratch: Chucho's choke was even worse. The match was ridiculous. Verdasco is still a clown. Maybe this will make him stronger :shrug:

Komodo
11-24-2008, 02:51 AM
he's just a puppy. A very promising one, that must be said.
Whereas Nalby... YEARS of experience, and still not being able to bring the goods when it's necessary. :(


How did Nalbandian not bring the goods?
You can't expect him to play amazing doubles. Noone ever claimed he is a great doubles player. You could expect of him to win both his singles rubbrs, and I am very sure that he would have done just that.

And I agree, Acasuso vs Verdasco was absolutely ridiculous, with both choking over and over again and handing gifts back and forth without end.
Acasusos backhand in the first 3 sets was laughable, pathetic!
Verdasco was so afraid of this match that he played way, way below his normal level and was just shanking shots left and right.

After the 3rd set, I felt that Acasuso was tired and that Verdasco all of a sudden played with more pace and stopped making all those errors. Game over.





I just don't get why Acasuso didn't play doubles instead. That serve could have put Argentina in a pretty good position for winning on saturday.

Sunset of Age
11-24-2008, 02:57 AM
How did Nalbandian not bring the goods?
You can't expect him to play amazing doubles. Noone ever claimed he is a great doubles player. You could expect of him to win both his singles rubbrs, and I am very sure that he would have done just that.

Just a matter of Personal Opinion. I thought he really sucked during that doubles match... :shrug:

I just don't get why Acasuso didn't play doubles instead. That serve could have put Argentina in a pretty good position for winning on saturday.

Might have been a better choice indeed. But right now... it's all just Hindsight Wisdom.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 03:53 AM
well done to verdasco. i think most people would have thought he would have choked and he probably would have if he had played someone better. but this should hopefully do wonders for his confidence and see him push on

He has had his best ever year and sure the match wasn't great watching, but he got the job done and good for him.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 04:07 AM
He will feel very sorry about this if they don't win DC in next years and he will certainly look very diferently on DC as he grows older.

Actually they have a decent chance next year too. They play home against Netherlands then away against France/Czech Republic, then a SF home against USA/Switzerland and a final away against Russia or Spain. Most likely it will be Russia cause they are playing home against Spain too. So it is not a "mission impossible".

Lets say this, nothing is impossible, but they aren't going to have a better chance to win a Davis Cup than this year, but they got what they deserved.


So poor Nalbandian has been cursed with mug team-mates and bad luck. Don't give me that rubbish. He's had more top 50/top 100 team-mates than Hewitt, Roddick and Safin ever had.

This year Argentina played all their ties at home against weakened opposition. Britain without Murray, Russia without Safin and Youzhny and Spain without Nadal and Ferrer completely out of form, and they still didn't win. If they can't win under those circumstances then they never will.

They couldn't even beat Slovakia in 2005 with two top 10 singles players. Also Sweden in 2007 with Canas in-form. At least USA beat the Czechs on clay. Croatia won playing with only two players and three out of four ties away. Even Ljubicic is a greater Davis Cup player than Nalbandian will ever be.

No matter how many times Nalbandian beats Federer and Nadal, he'll never be a great. Argentina can keep producing generations of top players but without commitment and team togetherness they'll never win.

Seriously you are just trolling pure and simple. How is it Nalbandian's fault that Coria could win a match in Bratislava, Chela couldn't get it done in Moscow, and the other occasions that the number 2 player hasn't been able to win a singles match. That he can't be blamed for.

Roddick has the Bryan Bros, pretty much as long as Roddick wins his singles which he does at home, then game over. Hewitt had the Poo who was in good form in 2003 and he won the Cup in 99, there has never been an Argie player consistent enough to step up and help Nalbandian consistently in singles and that isn't his fault.

What he does on tour or doesn't do on tour is fair game, or whether he has a sour attitude or not, fair enough but to insinuate he doesn't have commitment to Davis Cup and the team environment is garbage.

What about Ljubicic? At least Ancic when he needed to win a match, stepped up and did it.

tangerine_dream
11-24-2008, 04:31 AM
Spain Stuns Argentina for Davis Cup
Abrasive Nalbandian Launches Civil War Within Argentine Team,
Nearly Comes to Blows With Del Potro

By Chris Bowers, Special to TennisReporters.net

FROM THE DAVIS CUP FINAL IN MAR DE PLATA – It's taken four attempts over a period of 43 years, but Spain has finally won a Davis Cup final away from home. The underdogs going into this final - lacking No 1 Rafael Nadal - took an unassailable 3-1 lead when Fernando Verdasco beat José Acasuso 6-3, 6-7(3), 4-6, 6-3, 6-1 to claim its third title overall. But taking nothing away from the triumph of Emilio Sanchez' team-building skills, when the dust settles on this final, the story will be more a case of internecine warfare in an Argentina camp that had everything going for it, but ultimately succumbed to the ego trip of one man.

That man is David Nalbandian. For so long Argentina's talisman, he has devoted himself almost exclusively - and some would say excessively - to winning the Davis Cup, recognizing that this is the achievement that will cut most ice with his compatriots. But his interpretation of his role as team leader has gone badly wrong just at the time when his powers have begun to wane, and his abrasive personality unleashed a civil war within his team that ultimately undid a challenge supported so enthusiastically by his entire country.

The swirls of bad vibes took down Sanchez who announced he was stepping down as coach, saying, "it's too much."

While the media in Argentina counted down the weeks and then the days in an exercise in hype seldom seen for any tennis event, Nalbandian was busy alienating his teammates. After Argentina's semifinal victory over Russia in September, the oft media-shy Nalbandian gave countless news conferences, making the point that he wanted to play indoors, so an indoor arena had to be found. What the other players or the national association AAT wanted seemed not to be a feature.

More than just playing indoors, Nalbandian clearly wanted an arena in Córdoba, the city closest to where he grew up. He is also sponsored by a bank in Córdoba, which played a major part in the campaign for the northern Argentinean city. Given that the Davis Cup's title sponsor is one of the world's leading banks, BNP Paribas, the Banco de Córdoba may have pushed a little too hard, and helped lead the AAT and ITF to their decision to opt for the Estadio Polideportivo Islas Malvinas in Mar del Plata. But still Nalbandian insisted on his way, calling for different resins to be used so the surface would be just right for him.

All of which is fine if he then delivers, but an inconvenient truth behind all of this is that Nalbandian was losing his status as Argentina's No 1. His poor year has coincided with the dramatic rise of Juan Martin Del Potro, and when Nalbandian's 100 percent winning record in home Davis Cup rubbers ended in September, it was Del Potro who stepped in to see Argentina into the final with a live fifth-rubber victory over Igor Andreev of Russia. For a while Del Potro has looked up to Nalbandian, but recently he is reported to have got irritated with the de facto team leader, and all that boiled over on Friday night.

What exactly happened remains the subject of speculation, and Argentina's captain Alberto Mancini said, "there was nothing going on.". But something clearly was. After Del Potro was beaten in four sets by Feliciano Lopez on Friday, finishing the match with a thigh strain that put him out of Sunday's reverse singles, Nabandian is reported to have rounded on the new Argentina No. 1, accusing him of scuppering the team's chances by opting to go to Shanghai for the Tennis Masters Cup rather than prepare for the Davis Cup final. When Nalbandian came off court a loser in Saturday's doubles, the two leading players are said to have nearly come to blows, with only the intervention of Nalbandian's doubles partner, Agustin Calleri, preventing a much bigger confrontation.

"If you learn how Argentineans are," added Mancini, "they have to make up something when there's nothing, and maybe we're the champions at that."

Maybe, but the likeable captain is throwing in the towel after four years trying to mould Argentina's great talents into a team. He is likely to be accompanied by Nalbandian, who may choose to fall on his sword and retire from the Davis Cup schedule rather than suffer the humiliation of being ousted in the interests of team unity by whoever Mancini's successor proves to be.

By total contrast, Spain's players were a unit, with an esprit de corps that allowed two highly talented but hitherto underachieving lefthanders to flourish under extreme pressure. Lopez and Fernando Verdasco are both the "wrong" side of 25, but both may be about to deliver their best years. Lopez was outstanding in his four-sets victory over Del Potro on Friday (Del Potro's injury didn't come until Lopez was a break up in the fourth), playing at a consistent level that few felt him capable of. Verdasco was a little lucky to be up against the No. 48 rather than the No. 9. After losing his way after a nervous three sets, he became the man of the moment by outlasting Acasuso to win in five. Maybe this will give both men the encouragement to push on in their personal careers.

So Emilio Sanchez's team has succeeded where Manolo Santana's team failed in 1965 and 1967, and Carlos Moya and Juan Carlos Ferrero failed in 2003 - winning a Davis Cup final way from home.

And, it is a victory for the captain. Three years ago he set about establishing a viable doubles partnership of Lopez and Verdasco, and in creating a winning mentality away from home. Now Spain has won the cup with three of the four victories coming outside Spain, and with its third- and fifth-ranked players having the starring roles.

"It's a dream. I've wanted this chance since I was a boy. Few get it and even fewer take it," said Verdasco. "In the Davis Cup, you have to fight to the death and you always have to keep your hope of winning. This mental strength helped me win the match'

Sanchez added, "I think Rafael Nadal has … brought triumphs for the team … and it's thanks to his wins that we are here. But the players who are here deserve the repercussions. They have brought the team forward so they deserve all the headlines and the praise."

As for Argentina, a new era will no doubt begin in March when a different looking team is likely to face the Netherlands, a team likely to be built around the emerging talents of Del Potro and Eduardo Schwank. But a lot of blood may be spilled before then - the home media gave Mancini and Acasuso an indisciplined grilling after the final was decided, and this week could see more recriminations in Argentinean tennis circles.

"This is ridiculous. We have to reflect on all this and so do you," Mancini said. "To call this a failure, after we reached two finals and one semifinal is harsh and it lacks objectivity. I don't understand how anyone can think like this. It's a lack of respect to me and the players."

The choice of Mar del Plata may also signal the death knell for smaller cities hosting the Davis Cup final. The ITF's Juan Margets has said he is drawing up a set of criteria for the final that will limit venues to capital cities and major prestigious cities - how those are defined is what he is working on. It means no more Mar del Platas, and possibly no more Portland, Oregons. But then Mar del Plata means the sea of silver, and after three sets of silver medals in Davis Cup finals, Argentina will be happy not to return to a place that promised so much but delivered nothing but internal strife.

Lee
11-24-2008, 04:56 AM
The swirls of bad vibes took down Sanchez who announced he was stepping down as coach, saying, "it's too much."


Sanchez :confused: wrong captain, no? :p

The ITF's Juan Margets has said he is drawing up a set of criteria for the final that will limit venues to capital cities and major prestigious cities - how those are defined is what he is working on. It means no more Mar del Platas, and possibly no more Portland, Oregons.

He's kidding, right? :scratch:

marcRD
11-24-2008, 05:10 AM
Chucho has nothing to be ashamed for, he fought till the end even if he was in a real bad form and didn't know whether he was going to play or not till the last minute :hug:

How about him beeing ashamed for his backhand slices?

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:12 AM
How about him beeing ashamed for his backhand slices?

Sad thing is his backhand used to be worse, but it's not like Chucho has been in form since Söderling gave him a huge beatdown.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:13 AM
Mancini resigned and definitely not Emilio.

http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/audio/mp3/DC_10413_mp3.MP3

Lee
11-24-2008, 05:18 AM
Mancini resigned and definitely not Emilio.

http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/audio/mp3/DC_10413_mp3.MP3

Probably an error in the article because the same article mentioned Mancini resigned later.

Snowwy
11-24-2008, 05:19 AM
What about Ljubicic? At least Ancic when he needed to win a match, stepped up and did it.

Ljubicic won 11 matches that yet, when Nalbandian does that you can compare the two.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:28 AM
Probably an error in the article because the same article mentioned Mancini resigned later.

If Emilio has gone, then at least he goes out the best way.

Lee
11-24-2008, 05:30 AM
If Emilio has gone, then at least he goes out the best way.

If everythings mentioned in the article within the Argentina team are true, Mancini made the right decision getting the hell out of Dodge :tape:

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 05:33 AM
ESV shouldn't go, he's been a good captain and made very good decisions, specially in the SF and in the F ;)

Mancini needs to get away from the battle of the egos between fat dave and del pony :shrug:

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:36 AM
If everythings mentioned in the article within the Argentina team are true, Mancini made the right decision getting the hell out of Dodge :tape:

Well you got the audio link that I gave you, that says more than enough. It was taken after Chucho lost.

It's like Mancini said, the Argentines are among the best of creating a crisis. There was no punch up, yes some things were said, but that's not a surprise.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/tennisNews/idUKLN55864020081123?sp=true

Tennis-Argentina captain says Davis loss a lesson for the nation
Brian Homewood

MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina, Nov 23 (Reuters) - Argentina's Davis Cup final defeat by Spain on Sunday should be a lesson for the whole country, captain Alberto Mancini said.

"We have to learn a lot from this but not just the players," he said. "The country as a whole, everyone, needs to learn to row in the same direction.

"It's very difficult for us to row in the same direction, sometimes an effort is made but we need more.

"I'm talking about the reality of the country and the Argentines and the way we are," Mancini told a media conference.

Mancini also complained about the political battle in which several cities become involved in the race for the right to stage the final.

The Atlantic resort of Mar del Plata was eventually chosen.

"I always said we ought to be talking about tennis and not the venue. Everything became political. We lost focus a bit," he said.

Argentina began as favourites to win the final for the first time against opponents who were missing world number one Rafael Nadal but instead slipped to a 3-1 defeat, frustrating the partisan 11,000 crowd at the Islas Malvinas indoor arena.

DECISIVE INJURY

Spain completed the win when Fernando Verdasco beat Jose Acasuso, standing in for the injured Juan Martin del Potro, in five sets on Sunday.

Mancini was angry over media reports of fighting in the Argentine dressing room on Saturday.

"This is ridiculous, we have to reflect on all this and so do you," he told the media.

He was also upset over suggestions that his captaincy, which included defeat to Russia in Moscow in the final two years ago, was a failure.

"To call this a failure, after we reached two finals and one semi-final is harsh and it lacks objectivity. I don't understand how anyone can think like this. It's a lack of respect to me and the players."

Mancini refused to discuss his future and said Del Potro's injury, during his defeat to Feliciano Lopez on Friday, had been a key moment in the tie.

"We have two very strong singles players and we were counting on them. Juan Martin's injury opened up a big gap in our team and radically changed our chances.

"Spain played very well, Feliciano played the match of his life, Nadal's absence united them and they capitalised on our bad luck and our problems."

Acasuso added: "Four of the five members of the team lost the final against Russia so this is doubly painful. We had every chance to win the Davis Cup for the first time, we couldn't do it, so we're sad and angry." (Editing by Rex Gowar)

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:37 AM
Spain have won the DC and got rid of that evil clown Muñoz, who won't go quietly after the whole Madrid fiasco.

Arkulari
11-24-2008, 05:42 AM
wasn't Muñoz going to get to the Iberoamerican Tennis Federation or something of the sort? :mad: :eek:

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 05:45 AM
Evil clown is not in charge of the Spanish tennis federation, so it's win win.

Lee
11-24-2008, 05:46 AM
Well you got the audio link that I gave you, that says more than enough. It was taken after Chucho lost.


He didn't say Nalby is a pain in the ***, did he? :lol:

MariaV
11-24-2008, 08:35 AM
How did Nalbandian not bring the goods?
You can't expect him to play amazing doubles. Noone ever claimed he is a great doubles player. You could expect of him to win both his singles rubbrs, and I am very sure that he would have done just that.


I just don't get why Acasuso didn't play doubles instead. That serve could have put Argentina in a pretty good position for winning on saturday.

My simple question is - IF as you say no-one has claimed fat Dave is a great doubles player then WHY does he play the crucial doubles in the DC finals? And don't come with the no better player available or other :bs:.
Of course Mancini picks the team but doesn't Fat Dave have something to say if he's not ready to play 3 matches during a DC weekend, and he clearly has not been able lately. See the semis vs Russia and this final. He should say that he is not ready to play the doubles if he is not ready. And when he does play the doubles he should perform, right? in MY opinion he has NOT performed in the doubles matches in either of the DC finals. That's my point. Or does anyone want to say that Fat Dave played well (not speaking about amazing or brilliant here) in those two particular doubles matches?
Any other player or any other singles or doubles match or Nalby's character or even the result or anything else is irrelevant to this question. The question is simple - did Fat Dave play well in those two particular doubles matches? My answer is NO, he did not.

Horatio Caine
11-24-2008, 09:11 AM
Dedicated to Linkmage, Excalibur and D_Marcaccio fan. :lol:


No doubt that Spain deserved the win...most had written them off in the days/weeks beforehand, but they worked together very well, and, well...who'd have thought that Lalo and Nando would win the Cup between them! :eek: Very well done guys. :worship:

Looks like the Davis Cup title might be another accolade that escapes Nalbandian's outstretched fingers (Grand Slam title etc...).

JolánGagó
11-24-2008, 09:27 AM
Like message board popularity contests?

:haha:

JolánGagó
11-24-2008, 09:47 AM
I actually enjoy his stance, conducting his own schedule...

Punching his teammate after they both lost, fleeing the scene like a coward leaving behind teammate to deal with media, scolding DelPony for going to Shanghai and not prioritize DC (this is really funny from a guy that "conducts his own schedule" in absolute disregard to anything other than his own will :rolleyes:) Clown of the highest order this Nalby, even though he's one of my tour faves.

Im so happy... home, own choosen surface, Nadal out, rabid crowd behaving like hungry monkeys demanding banana... and the Argies still manage to lose :haha: :haha:

fast_clay
11-24-2008, 10:06 AM
Punching his teammate after they both lost, fleeing the scene like a coward leaving behind teammate to deal with media, scolding DelPony for going to Shanghai and not prioritize DC (this is really funny from a guy that "conducts his own schedule" in absolute disregard to anything other than his own will :rolleyes:) Clown of the highest order this Nalby, even though he's one of my tour faves.

Im so happy... home, own choosen surface, Nadal out, rabid crowd behaving like hungry monkeys demanding banana... and the Argies still manage to lose :haha: :haha:

yeah... great for you, great for spain... its obvious team spirit is not what it could be... and like i said earlier, spain form doubles combos all year on tour... almost garauntees them 3rd day action vs a team like argentina... who... well, lets face it... these guys couldnt even organise a blow job in a brothel... and have ultimately conspired to royally f*** this up...

nalbo got a fair bit of help from the argies federation on the way up as i understand... and, he has poured a bit of cash back into his country... especially round cordoba... its not lost on him how he got where he is... and, puts his hand up no questions asked... again... gets shafted on venue choice... and, shafted every which way you wanna look... sure, a team has no 'i' in it... but... f*** me drunk if there results say otherwise over the last how many years...

JolánGagó
11-24-2008, 10:11 AM
yeah, but they could have done something to taunt the public or overdo the celebration like Eto'o did once (something like Madrid, c***bron, saluda al campeón? :rolleyes: ) or maybe pull a Djoker and start punching their chests... :rolleyes: ;)

Exactly, there was a wide range of gestures they could've made to rub their victory on that rabid, classless crowd's face. They were under no obligation to be gracious, they were treated like shit. Nalby's behaviour was that of a clown of the highest order, sore loser, no team spirits, utter lack of respect for his own team members and fans. He doesn't deserve to win any DC title in his career. He won't in fact.

scoobs
11-24-2008, 10:17 AM
Um, as Nalbandian was the only member of the Argentinian side to score a point I fail to see how blame for the loss could be placed at his door. He's carried that Argentinian team for 4 years. His commitment and passion for the Davis Cup cannot be questioned.

Maybe Del Potro's decision to put TMC before the DC final is understandable, and it entirely up to him how he prioritises his career, but if you think it played no part in Argentina's defeat you are wrong. He made his choice and now he has to live with it :shrug:
True - but IF the media articles coming out are true (and that's a big if, I admit), then it suggests that the whole thing became about Nalbandian and his personal quest for the Davis Cup triumph, and if that is the case, it's easy to see why they failed, quite apart from Del Potro's injury. It's a team event and it is nearly always countries that demonstrate a strong team mentality that win it - like the USA, like Croatia, like Spain, where the wishes of one player or another are subordinated to the overall objective.

So if the stories are true, then yes, Nalbandian was the one who was delivering the points until this year but perhaps that fact ended up getting in the way and caused problems just at the moment he needed the rest of the team to step up.

JolánGagó
11-24-2008, 10:31 AM
Emilio has clearly stated he's stepping down with inmediate effect, he's not going to be the captain at the next tie with Serbia.

zeleni
11-24-2008, 10:40 AM
Congrats Spain! I didn't believe Spaniards can do it without Rafa.

23 Nov 2008 - Estadio Islas Malvinas, Mar del Plata - David Bookman
A dream come true for Verdasco

Ever since Fernando Verdasco was a young boy, when he could barely see over the top of the net, he had dreamed about winning the Davis Cup for Spain. And the 25-year-old Madrileno realised that dream at the Estadio Islas Malvinas today, beating Argentina's Jose Acasuso in five sets to give Spain the point they needed to complete their first Davis Cup triumph away from home. This was "the most beautiful day" of Verdasco's life, and that is coming from a man who now has Ana Ivanovic, the delightful French Open champion, on his arm.

Ivanovic wasn't in Mar del Plata to see Verdasco win the trophy for Spain. And the other absentee, of course, was Rafael Nadal, who missed the final because of an injury to his right knee, and instead spent the weekend following events from his hotel in Mauritius. Most neutrals had suggested that, without Nadal, Spain would be beaten by Argentina. But if Spain didn't have their most famous left-handed player, they had a couple of other lefties who did a fine job for them.

It was Feliciano Loez who got Spain's challenge going when he defeated Juan Martin del Potro, Argentina's leading singles player, during Friday's singles. And Lopez and Verdasco then combined in the Saturday doubles to beat David Nalbandian and Agustin Calleri, before Verdasco came from two sets to one down for his victory over Acasuso. And so Spain won the Davis Cup for the third time, and for the third time in an Olympic year too, with their previous wins coming in 2000 and 2004. This has been Spain's year in the men's game, after Nadal's individual success on the clay of Roland Garros, the grass of the All England Club and the cement of the Beijing Olympics.

The team spirit shown by the Spaniards - they mobbed Verdasco at the end, creating a red-shirted heap of bodies on court - contrasted with some of the stories that came out of Argentina's locker-room. It appears as though Nalbandian didn't exactly endear himself to his team-mates during the tie, with reports suggesting that he upset both Del Potro and Calleri.

So Spain were without Nadal, and Argentina were without team discipline, and it was Argentina who were left wanting. Argentina were unable to celebrate winning the competition for the first time. It was Verdasco, a man who has previously received a fraction of the attention that has gone Nadal's way, who took centre stage by the Atlantic. What a year for him - dating Ivanovic and now winning the Davis Cup for his country.

http://www.daviscup.com/news/newsarticle.asp?articleid=15481

David Bookman knows the essence.:lol:

MariaV
11-24-2008, 10:46 AM
It's a team event and it is nearly always countries that demonstrate a strong team mentality that win it - like the USA, like Croatia, like Spain, where the wishes of one player or another are subordinated to the overall objective.


Agree Scoobs, just cannot resist the temptation to add Russia, the Russians have great team spirit too. :)

scoobs
11-24-2008, 10:54 AM
Agree Scoobs, just cannot resist the temptation to add Russia, the Russians have great team spirit too. :)
I didn't mention Russia as I was less sure of them. I don't see them as quite a united team in the same way as the others - kinda get the feeling Davydenko is a bit detached, and Tursunov being US based perhaps too. Having said that, not reading Russian perhaps I miss out on a lot of the nuances of the team spirit that exists.

But what is definitely true about the Russian team, more than that, is that when they do come together to play for Russia, Tarpischev pulls them together, calls the shots, makes the decisions and the players jump to his beat. Sure, occasionally Safin has sorta said "you must pick me, I'll deliver" but with Shamil you get the feeling that if he thought it was a bad idea he still wouldn't, regardless of Safin's opinion on the matter. They work as a team towards the goal under Tarpischev's direction and that's how it needs to be.

jonathancrane
11-24-2008, 10:59 AM
It will be interesting that tie at home against Serbia
Where will sit our muse?



http://www.mensvogue.com/images/health/2007/08/hear01_ivanovic.jpg

MariaV
11-24-2008, 11:06 AM
I didn't mention Russia as I was less sure of them. I don't see them as quite a united team in the same way as the others - kinda get the feeling Davydenko is a bit detached, and Tursunov being US based perhaps too. Having said that, not reading Russian perhaps I miss out on a lot of the nuances of the team spirit that exists.

But what is definitely true about the Russian team, more than that, is that when they do come together to play for Russia, Tarpischev pulls them together, calls the shots, makes the decisions and the players jump to his beat. Sure, occasionally Safin has sorta said "you must pick me, I'll deliver" but with Shamil you get the feeling that if he thought it was a bad idea he still wouldn't, regardless of Safin's opinion on the matter. They work as a team towards the goal under Tarpischev's direction and that's how it needs to be.

The guys have said they may not be all best friends (as they are all different indeed) but they all get along very well, no-one has ever refused to play nor have there been any fights. ;) And even Marat listens to Tarpi. ;) Even when Safin wants to play very much he listens to Tarpi as Tarpi is the one making the final decision. Tarpi is the one who said that Safin is actually a fantastic listener during matches. ;)
They are pretty united as a team, otherwise the results wouldn't be there. :) I can watch all their ties and I like their team and team spirit.

fast_clay
11-24-2008, 11:31 AM
Emilio has clearly stated he's stepping down with inmediate effect, he's not going to be the captain at the next tie with Serbia.

how long has EVS been spains coach...?

great business move stepping out now... looks nice n fresh on the CV... :)

JolánGagó
11-24-2008, 11:33 AM
how long has EVS been spains coach...?

great business move stepping out now... looks nice n fresh on the CV... :)


3 years now.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 12:28 PM
how long has EVS been spains coach...?

great business move stepping out now... looks nice n fresh on the CV... :)

Retire on top and go back to the academy.

sLayer
11-24-2008, 12:45 PM
I can´t Believe it!!!!!!!!!!

Congratz Spain for the team!

Komodo
11-24-2008, 01:28 PM
My simple question is - IF as you say no-one has claimed fat Dave is a great doubles player then WHY does he play the crucial doubles in the DC finals? And don't come with the no better player available or other :bs:.
Of course Mancini picks the team but doesn't Fat Dave have something to say if he's not ready to play 3 matches during a DC weekend, and he clearly has not been able lately.

Please, you give the very clear answer yourself but dismiss it as BS without explaining why. So please, MariaV, tell me why exactly it isn't valid but in your opinion bullshit.

He isn't good at doubles, but it was clearly the best shot they had. The error may have been not to play Acasuso with Nalbandian.

Aside from the tennis aspect, it is possible that Nalbandian wanted it way too much and overdid the pushing-on his teammates part, especially in the doubles with Calleri. After the doubles match, all that emotion may have turned into frustration when he realized that it wasn't going to happen this tine either.

Furthermore, how can you say Nalbandian wasn't ready to play 3 matches, when clearly he would have won the 5th rubber rather easily, looking at how he played on friday and how he had been playing the whole indoor season.

From a tennis point of view, you couldn't ask more of Nalbandian. Regarding team aspects when things were spiralling downwards, everyone can judge for themselves.

But it sure must be tough to never be able to count on your teammates to help you when you have invested a lot for you and for them and bring it every single time. (exception: semis vs Russia).

Last but not least, Nalbandian would be stupid not to try at least for 2 more years, now that he has an up and coming top 10 player to help him, who can play on all surfaces.
But maybe he has really made himself insustainable.

/komodo

MariaV
11-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Please, you give the very clear answer yourself but dismiss it as BS without explaining why. So please, MariaV, tell me why exactly it isn't valid but in your opinion bullshit.

He isn't good at doubles, but it was clearly the best shot they had. The error may have been not to play Acasuso with Nalbandian.

Aside from the tennis aspect, it is possible that Nalbandian wanted it way too much and overdid the pushing-on his teammates part, especially in the doubles with Calleri. After the doubles match, all that emotion may have turned into frustration when he realized that it wasn't going to happen this tine either.

Furthermore, how can you say Nalbandian wasn't ready to play 3 matches, when clearly he would have won the 5th rubber rather easily, looking at how he played on friday and how he had been playing the whole indoor season.



Simple - did he play well in the doubles match on Saturday when it mattered? No. That's the point. If he was able to play 3 matches and ALWAYS DELIVERS in DC as dear burro Deivid said then why didn't he play better on Saturday? Or do you claim that he played the doubles well on Saturday? That's my point.
And if that's the best he can deliver then there's no reason to play diva and punch anyone else. Got to admit he simply isn't good enough (as you said). And if there was no better alternative available then so be it. 2 points don't win a DC tie. :shrug:

Daniel
11-24-2008, 01:50 PM
I would have wanted Argentina to win without Nalbandian.

MariaV
11-24-2008, 02:00 PM
From a tennis point of view, you couldn't ask more of Nalbandian. Regarding team aspects when things were spiralling downwards, everyone can judge for themselves.

/komodo

Yes, IMO one could have asked more of him on Saturday from a tennis point of view. Even if he is not a good doubles player as you said but was the best available whatever, he did not give even his best on Saturday, now did he? And one could've asked him to give at least his best on Saturday. That's my opinion.

Machiavelli
11-24-2008, 02:01 PM
That's what they get for offering the spaniards to wait untill Rafa comes back to full fitness, and underestimating them, I am far from a Feli or Nando fan, but hats off to both players, Monaco for singles (at least he would have given 200%, and he was in better physical shape then Chucho) or ArnoldKer in doubles (played with Nalbi a couple of tournaments) were better choices, Mancini's fault..

The more complete team won, and it was deserved....

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 02:03 PM
And if that's the best he can deliver then there's no reason to play diva and punch anyone else. Got to admit he simply isn't good enough (as you said). And if there was no better alternative available then so be it. 2 points don't win a DC tie. :shrug:

Still going on with this? There wasn't a punch up, that is just paper talk. So he has to win doubles matches by himself.

Action Jackson
11-24-2008, 02:04 PM
That's what they get for offering the spaniards to wait untill Rafa comes back to full fitness, and underestimating them, I am far from a Feli or Nando fan, but hats off to both players, Monaco for singles (at least he would have given 200%, and he was in better physical shape then Chucho) or ArnoldKer in doubles (played with Nalbi a couple of tournaments) were better choices, Mancini's fault..

The more complete team won, and it was deserved....

Acasuso gave everything he had, he wasn't good enough to take the match, it wasn't the fact that he didn't put in.