what is the difference between the Cincy courts and those at the us open [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

what is the difference between the Cincy courts and those at the us open

jpatatsos
08-03-2008, 01:36 AM
Are they similar?

or is one faster than the other??

kobulingam
08-03-2008, 01:41 AM
Are they similar?

or is one faster than the other??

US Open slightly slower. But both are faster than Canada, which is in turn faster than IW/Miami.


Cincy > US Open >> Canada >> Miami > IW

(> slightly faster, >> appreciably faster)


Or more accurately,

Cincy > US Open >> (Montreal > Toronto) >> Miami > IW

groundstroke
08-03-2008, 01:43 AM
In order from slowest to fastest courts.
IW/Miami >>> Toronto >>> US Open >>> Cincinnati.

Halba
08-03-2008, 01:47 AM
toronto is slowest. miami is quick(roddick beat fed)

kobulingam
08-03-2008, 01:48 AM
toronto is slowest. miami is quick(roddick beat fed)


No way. Miami (and IW) are slower than some of the clay courts.

Johnny Groove
08-03-2008, 01:50 AM
Cincinnatti is obviously the fastest seeing as its the only one where Nadal has yet to reach the final

groundstroke
08-03-2008, 02:00 AM
Cincinnatti is obviously the fastest seeing as its the only one where Nadal has yet to reach the final
If Nadal keeps on playing on hard courts I doubt many people will complain? Why? His legs will snap.

prima donna
08-03-2008, 02:01 AM
The U.S Open employs a lighter ball that moves more quickly through the air, which decreases the likelihood of the balls fluffing up.

Johnny Groove
08-03-2008, 02:06 AM
If Nadal keeps on playing on hard courts I doubt many people will complain? Why? His legs will snap.

Classy :yeah:

groundstroke
08-03-2008, 02:10 AM
Classy :yeah:
It's the truth. Did you not see the face on Nadal last year in USO 2007 when he bowed out? He should stick to clay. (and grass)

guga2120
08-03-2008, 02:14 AM
No way. Miami (and IW) are slower than some of the clay courts.

I think Miami is slower than Rome, seriously.

prima donna
08-03-2008, 02:15 AM
It's the truth. Did you not see the face on Nadal last year in USO 2007 when he bowed out? He should stick to clay. (and grass)
This is Nadal's moment in the sun; he has the right to chase down as many balls as he would like, the day of judgment shall come once the miles accumulated throughout the course of his career finally lead to him being taken out of a stadium on a stretcher, which is quite a plausible scenario on hard courts.

kobulingam
08-03-2008, 02:16 AM
I think Miami is slower than Rome, seriously.

True fact.

platinum
08-03-2008, 03:26 AM
Cincinnatti is obviously the fastest seeing as its the only one where Nadal has yet to reach the final

True.

Though no player has EVER reached all the MS finals....

Vlad1980
08-03-2008, 03:51 AM
Not everything is about the pace. There are other factors that are just as important: weather conditions, type of ball used, elevation or not, height of a bounce, court traction (even hardcourts differ A LOT), etc.

Jimnik
08-03-2008, 04:12 AM
US Open slightly slower. But both are faster than Canada, which is in turn faster than IW/Miami.


Cincy > US Open >> Canada >> Miami > IW

(> slightly faster, >> appreciably faster)


Or more accurately,

Cincy > US Open >> (Montreal > Toronto) >> Miami > IW
You sure about that?

I think Miami is the slowest of the North American events. It can vary a lot each year but historically the clay players have done better in Florida.

Action Jackson
08-03-2008, 04:54 AM
You sure about that?

I think Miami is the slowest of the North American events. It can vary a lot each year but historically the clay players have done better in Florida.

No, Miami is not slower than Indian Wells ad we know it's ludicrous to compare a hardcourt to a claycourt in any capacity.

kobulingam
08-03-2008, 04:55 AM
Both Miami and IW are pathetically slow for HC. Comparing the two is not a big deal, as they are unparalleled and equal in their crapness.

Action Jackson
08-03-2008, 05:02 AM
Both Miami and IW are pathetically slow for HC. Comparing the two is not a big deal, as they are unparalleled and equal in their crapness.

Yeah yeah as long as you think so.

Deboogle!.
08-03-2008, 05:11 AM
I'm not convinced the USO is slower than Cincy. Maybe a little bit, but the bounce is very low at the USO which is a factor.

SheepleBuster
08-03-2008, 05:14 AM
I'm not convinced the USO is slower than Cincy. Maybe a little bit, but the bounce is very low at the USO which is a factor. I think U.S. Open is slightly slower (not going to make a loser out of Nole against Nadal) but the ball will penetrate the court more. So Youzhny and Blake can give Nadal more trouble on U.S. Open than in Miami I would think.

Johnny Groove
08-03-2008, 05:18 AM
It's the truth. Did you not see the face on Nadal last year in USO 2007 when he bowed out? He should stick to clay. (and grass)

This is Nadal's moment in the sun; he has the right to chase down as many balls as he would like, the day of judgment shall come once the miles accumulated throughout the course of his career finally lead to him being taken out of a stadium on a stretcher, which is quite a plausible scenario on hard courts.

Wow, dont get too giddy about these scenarios guys :rolleyes:

SheepleBuster
08-03-2008, 05:23 AM
I personally think Nadal's reign will not be that long. Djokovic and Murray will be much closer next year. And hopefully by then Fed can put the ball in the court. Let's see how he does at AO 2009.

Nadal_Fanatic
08-03-2008, 10:13 AM
Cinci 2008 Breaking Percentage 16.44%
US Open 2007 Breaking Percentage 21.87% Yeah I would say that is a big enough gap to say Cinci is faster.

FluffyYellowBall
08-03-2008, 11:50 AM
I think U.S. Open is slightly slower (not going to make a loser out of Nole against Nadal) but the ball will penetrate the court more. So Youzhny and Blake can give Nadal more trouble on U.S. Open than in Miami I would think.

Is that coz of the weather conditions in Cincy? Heat takes on the spin more doesnt it? But yea I did notice that the US open courts take penetrating shots much better

Jimnik
08-03-2008, 12:20 PM
No, Miami is not slower than Indian Wells ad we know it's ludicrous to compare a hardcourt to a claycourt in any capacity.
LOL. I had a feeling you'd have somethng to say with Muster having won Miami. But I'll take your word for it.

cool bird1
08-03-2008, 03:20 PM
I thought I heard that the Open was fastter than Cin. It fact it is the fastest court out there. I could be wrong though

Snowwy
08-03-2008, 03:33 PM
No, Miami is not slower than Indian Wells ad we know it's ludicrous to compare a hardcourt to a claycourt in any capacity.

Yeah yeah as long as you think so.

And I think most of us have seen your opinions and know not to believe a word you say..hows old age treating you..as senile as ever, eh?

Deboogle!.
08-03-2008, 04:12 PM
Cinci 2008 Breaking Percentage 16.44%
US Open 2007 Breaking Percentage 21.87% Yeah I would say that is a big enough gap to say Cinci is faster.2008 stats could be skewed by the fact that Karlovic reached the semis - he doesn't break and he doesn't get broken often :lol:

The thing is that at the USO, the ball skids.

Lunaris
08-03-2008, 04:30 PM
Slow or fast who cares, it's mainly about the bounce. People say that Miami and Indian Wells are both slow and always compare the two speed wise as if they were very similar, while in fact each produces a rather different bounce. Terms like slow or fast are insufficient if you want to describe characteristics of the surface.

Action Jackson
08-03-2008, 04:49 PM
And I think most of us have seen your opinions and know not to believe a word you say..hows old age treating you..as senile as ever, eh?

Come on being insulted you, is like being hit with warm lettuce. In other words how can you build an accurate comparative analysis between surfaces that are completely different and have different climatic conditions that impact on them. There is a reason the apples and oranges analogy is used consistently, so both are edible fruits and what else?

Let me know when you are able to present a case. In other words, start watching some tennis.

SheepleBuster
08-03-2008, 06:19 PM
Is that coz of the weather conditions in Cincy? Heat takes on the spin more doesnt it? But yea I did notice that the US open courts take penetrating shots much better

Well. The balls are also different and don't fluff up. As far as Grand Slams, the Open should be the worst for Nadal. But it's amazing that Nadal gets the balls high up on his opponents backhands even on surfaces that are supposed to be against that kind of tactic. The way he spins the racket, he might break his arm in the process. It's very violent!

Henry Chinaski
08-03-2008, 06:43 PM
hope Nadal doesn't read this thread or he might retire with all the talk of snapped legs and broken arms.
I even had a weird dream last night that he was diagnosed with cancer so he'll be totally freaked if he reads this. (Bolelli died in a plane crash in the same dream. Fucking weird)

jcempire
08-03-2008, 06:47 PM
US Open slightly slower. But both are faster than Canada, which is in turn faster than IW/Miami.


Cincy > US Open >> Canada >> Miami > IW

(> slightly faster, >> appreciably faster)


Or more accurately,

Cincy > US Open >> (Montreal > Toronto) >> Miami > IW

Agree

KitinovRules
08-03-2008, 07:05 PM
US Open are not much slower than Cincy.
The bounce in NYC is higher, that is the main difference.

Chip_s_m
08-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Well. The balls are also different and don't fluff up. As far as Grand Slams, the Open should be the worst for Nadal. But it's amazing that Nadal gets the balls high up on his opponents backhands even on surfaces that are supposed to be against that kind of tactic. The way he spins the racket, he might break his arm in the process. It's very violent!

The U.S Open employs a lighter ball that moves more quickly through the air, which decreases the likelihood of the balls fluffing up.

Sources?

I'm pretty sure that the same ball is used throughout the US Open Series and US Open (Wilson US Open Heavy Duty). The USTA tries to keep everything consistent throughout the summer, hence the court colors. Plus, I believe the USTA negotiates for the official ball, rather than the individual tournaments. It would surprise me then, if the balls are different.

EDIT: Yeah I'm positive it's the same ball throughout the US Open Series (and the Olympics). Surface is Decoturf II at all of them as well, although obviously that doesn't mean they play at the same speed.

Nadal_Fanatic
08-03-2008, 09:20 PM
Sources?

I'm pretty sure that the same ball is used throughout the US Open Series and US Open (Wilson US Open Heavy Duty). The USTA tries to keep everything consistent throughout the summer, hence the court colors. Plus, I believe the USTA negotiates for the official ball, rather than the individual tournaments. It would surprise me then, if the balls are different.

EDIT: Yeah I'm positive it's the same ball throughout the US Open Series (and the Olympics). Surface is Decoturf II at all of them as well, although obviously that doesn't mean they play at the same speed.
US Open Series uses Penn. US Open uses Wilson. I don't know why they use different balls but that is how it is. I think the Wilson ball is lighter but isn't as lively either. It seems that Penn ball is harder to control due to this. At least it seems that way with players complaining about their first serve percentage dropping. I think the Wilson has more of the feather effect as Nadal's shots lose speed the longer it is in the air. Therefore easier to attack him with Wilson balls. The Penn Balls go through the air quicker and higher bouncing.

Chip_s_m
08-03-2008, 09:38 PM
US Open Series uses Penn. US Open uses Wilson. I don't know why they use different balls but that is how it is. I think the Wilson ball is lighter but isn't as lively either. It seems that Penn ball is harder to control due to this. At least it seems that way with players complaining about their first serve percentage dropping. I think the Wilson has more of the feather effect as Nadal's shots lose speed the longer it is in the air. Therefore easier to attack him with Wilson balls. The Penn Balls go through the air quicker and higher bouncing.

Yeah, you're right. That's really wierd. Maybe the ATP picks the balls for it's own events? I can't imagine the USTA using different balls unless they have to.