Toronto Final: Nadal vs. Kiefer - How many games will Kiefer win? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Toronto Final: Nadal vs. Kiefer - How many games will Kiefer win?

LinkMage
07-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Nadal has won the 3 matches this year.

Warrior
07-27-2008, 02:19 AM
He'll be bageled after losing tiebreak.

ReturnWinner
07-27-2008, 02:20 AM
Kiefer will have to serve in 100% of big first serves and volley like Tsonga in te aussie semis to make a close match :o

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 02:20 AM
I was there in Bremen when they met in Davis Cup, and Rafa ran away with it.

I'm telling you if Kiefer can't win indoors on home soil, what chances does he have outdoors on these slow courts? He's got great skills, touch and beautiful shots but just not enough firepower.

green25814
07-27-2008, 02:22 AM
Keifer will win.




























If nadal gets too much celebration sex tonight.

ReturnWinner
07-27-2008, 02:22 AM
I was there in Bremen when they met in Davis Cup.

I'm telling you if Kiefer can't win indoors on home soil, what chances does he have outdoors on these slow courts?

Coruts in Toronto are about of medium speed, not slow like Indian Wells and Miami.

HarryMan
07-27-2008, 02:22 AM
Can anyone beat this freak of nature???

oh well Kiwi just give it a try....

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 02:24 AM
Coruts in Toronto are about of medium speed, not slow like Indian Wells and Miami.
This year the conditions have looked a lot heavier than usual. I'm sure the weather has had a significant effect.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
He'll be bageled after losing tiebreak.


wasted thread. just how many Nadal threads do we need? and a totally useless question.

the whole planet knows that the Clay Monster wont allow Kiefer to take this.

look up who has the highest winning percentage in the finals in the open era. this tournament is now over.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
I expect a scoreline of 6-3, 6-1, at the best. For Raf, in case you didn't get me here. :lol:

Nay, the quality difference between both of the Toronto semifinals was... :o :tape: :help: :ignore: :haha:, as anyone who watched both of them like I did today should have noticed...

shotgun
07-27-2008, 02:27 AM
I was there in Bremen when they met in Davis Cup, and Rafa ran away with it.

I'm telling you if Kiefer can't win indoors on home soil, what chances does he have outdoors on these slow courts? He's got great skills, touch and beautiful shots but just not enough firepower.

Kiefer does have power and he's able to finish points early. He just doesn't have the mentality to defeat Nadal.

He'll probably make it a close first set, lose it and fold like a cheap tent afterwards.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:27 AM
Kiefer will win the match (yeah, right) :cool: :lol:

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 02:30 AM
Kiefer will win the match (yeah, right) :cool: :lol:


another "topspin death" coming for Kiefer.

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 02:30 AM
Kiefer does have power and he's able to finish points early. He just doesn't have the mentality to defeat Nadal.

He'll probably make it a close first set, lose it and fold like a cheap tent afterwards.
Kiefer has accuracy, he's a good thinker, he's got great variety but he doesn't have power. And no, he doesn't always try to finish points quickly. In fact he's often happy to rally until he finds a good opening.

He's definitely not in the Blake/Youzhny/Tsonga/Gulbis category.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:32 AM
Does it really deserve a poll?

shotgun
07-27-2008, 02:37 AM
Kiefer has accuracy, he's a good thinker, he's got great variety but he doesn't have power. And no, he doesn't always try to finish points quickly. In fact he's often happy to rally until he finds a good opening.

He's definitely not in the Blake/Youzhny/Tsonga/Gulbis category.

I'm not saying he's a hard-hitter but he has a pretty good serve, he's usually very agressive on returns and he's very often able to set up a point to finish it quickly at the net. Whether he employs it or not constantly is a different story, but he's surely able to do it.

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:39 AM
He'll win some games in the first set, but then, I think, he has to be careful after it not to get beaten too hard.

Assuming normal conditions, Kiefer's game and natural layout (let alone his mental strength) is not designed to relentlessly punish Nadal with big pressure shots all the time as you have to do it in order to stand a chance if Nadal continues somewhere around that form. He could serve well and could go to the net a few times more than usual, but finally Nadal will see 2nd serves and Nadal is about as good in passing shots as anybody when Kiefer appears at the net.

I'm hoping otherwise of course, but realistically the best he could hope for is a close result, like a loss with only two breaks of serve difference, for example.

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 02:40 AM
The Spartan will double bagel his ass!

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:44 AM
i dont think kiefer will bend over at any point but his chances to win are slim , although existant

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 02:44 AM
I'm not saying he's a hard-hitter but he has a pretty good serve, he's usually very agressive on returns and he's very often able to set up a point to finish it quickly at the net. Whether he employs it or not constantly is a different story, but he's surely able to do it.
It's hard to tell with this generation but I don't think Nadal matches-up badly against net rushers. It's usually the players who hit hard high-risk flat balls that stand a chance. Kiefer hits quite flat but not hard enough. He doesn't have the big physical stature to generate the power.

Warrior
07-27-2008, 02:59 AM
Keifer will win.




























If nadal gets too much celebration sex tonight.

With whom?

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:59 AM
He doesn't have the big physical stature to generate the power.
Wrong, Kiefer can create enormous power off both wings, his acceleration despite a normal-looking tecnique is really good. Anybody who saw him practicing on a loose day should be able to confirm that he can generate enormous power without that it looks awkward or requires a totally big motion that would look like that it would be extremely stressful or requires a big grunt.

Just like I said, it's not his mentality and not the natural design or layout of his game, and wouldn't be good in general because he would miss more than make.

Knightmace
07-27-2008, 02:59 AM
Kiefer will win



























NOT

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 03:02 AM
With whom?

You didn't witness his gorgeous Xisca sitting there in the stands with Tio Toni et al.? ;)

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 03:05 AM
yet another useless poll, pure nonsense.

DDrago2
07-27-2008, 03:15 AM
Kiefer will get impaled once more

Eden
07-27-2008, 09:10 AM
Does it really deserve a poll?

It's the typical GM humour ;)

Kiwi was able to get to the TB in the first set of the last 2 matches against Nadal, but after he lost them Rafa run away with the match. Rafa is in the form of his life right now and Kiwi was on the court in his SF in a 3 hours match, but give some credit to the underdog who was able to reach the final.

By the way: The last time we had such a similiar poll was during the Wimbledon SF of Nadal and Schuettler and we know that the match was closer as expected before ;)

Sebby
07-27-2008, 09:13 AM
6 if he's on fire.

Dougie
07-27-2008, 09:19 AM
Kiefer will win 6-3, 6-2. No one can stop Colin Farrel this week.

Basic Boy
07-27-2008, 09:23 AM
Both strong players with nice skills. Kiefer is nice to watch, and Nadal is not watchable. Kiefer in 2 close sets, for him it's maybe last chance to win Masters.

Halba
07-27-2008, 09:32 AM
kiefer will die by topspin death!

Vamos Rafa 01
07-27-2008, 09:45 AM
How can people disrespect Kiefer after what he did this week?

The guy knocked out great players, he played brilliant tennis most of the time, and he's full of confidence right now. I don't know if he'll win, but he stand a chance, even if Rafa is the favourite.

Junkyard Racket
07-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Kiefer is too crafty to get a beat down from Nadal. That said, Nadal will win it 6-4 6-4 or something like that.

safinalium
07-27-2008, 11:18 AM
Nadal will win w/ 6:2 6:3

Mateya
07-27-2008, 11:27 AM
He will win more games than Nadal. He will do what Nalby did last autumn.

You heard it first. ;)

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 11:30 AM
Wrong, Kiefer can create enormous power off both wings, his acceleration despite a normal-looking tecnique is really good. Anybody who saw him practicing on a loose day should be able to confirm that he can generate enormous power without that it looks awkward or requires a totally big motion that would look like that it would be extremely stressful or requires a big grunt.

Just like I said, it's not his mentality and not the natural design or layout of his game, and wouldn't be good in general because he would miss more than make.
Then I was right, he can't. Any professional player can try to drill it on the practise court as hard as they can, but it doesn't mean anything when it comes to matches. What's the relevance of being able to generate "enormous power" if you miss more than you make?

jpatatsos
07-27-2008, 11:33 AM
kiefer will struggle to win more than 6 games

Damn
07-27-2008, 11:45 AM
4-8

Halba
07-27-2008, 11:56 AM
kiefer has what is known as "easy power" , doesn't appear to exhert himself to generate great pace off both wings. Also his movement has been graceful, again 'easy power', ballet tennis. The last time i saw proper ballet tennis was Tsonga in AO 2008. also hardcourt suits his game. he will need to bring his blake match game if he wants to do a beatdown on nadal.

BUT

ballet TENNIS < SPARTAN tennis over the long term , we all know that. the evolution of tennis is towards the spartans(Nadal,Simon,Murray), baseline attrition and moonballing!

Pfloyd
07-27-2008, 11:56 AM
I kinda feel sorry for Kiefer.

But realisticaly, if a Djokovic, Nadal or Federer are in a tounry and Kiefer were to face them in a final, he would lose....

Kiefer's best, maybe his only chance to win a master series would be to particpate in won like the one Robredo won (Hamburg 06?).

Great, fun player to watch, but not good enough. Age doesn't help either....

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 12:01 PM
I kinda feel sorry for Kiefer.

I don't think you have to feel sorry for Nicolas - the fellow is 31, and has just reached the FIRST EVER Master's final in his entire career! He's a very happy camper, whatever happens in that final. :D

I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the entire night partying. :lol:

Pfloyd
07-27-2008, 12:10 PM
I don't think you have to feel sorry for Nicolas - the fellow is 31, and has just reached the FIRST EVER Master's final in his entire career! He's a very happy camper, whatever happens in that final. :D

I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the entire night partying. :lol:

Yeah true, but it would be nice to finish his career with a master series.

But It's not as if he really thinks he can beat this Rafa.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 12:12 PM
Yeah true, but it would be nice to finish his career with a master series.

But It's not as if he really thinks he can beat this Rafa.

The only way for Kiefer to win this match is if he swapps Raf's water bottles with bottles containing tequila. ;)

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't think you have to feel sorry for Nicolas - the fellow is 31, and has just reached the FIRST EVER Master's final in his entire career! He's a very happy camper, whatever happens in that final. :D

I wouldn't be surprised if he spent the entire night partying. :lol:

am i the only one who thinks kiefer is taking this match seriously?

u said it yourself - its his first MS final. i dont think he's gonna give a ceremonial performance (like fedmug at RG)

Pfloyd
07-27-2008, 12:15 PM
The only way for Kiefer to win this match is if he swapps Raf's water bottles with bottles containing tequila. ;)

:haha:

If this were in your country, he could put some THC in the bottle, make Rafa calm him down for once :D

Nadal will win 6-3, 6-2, something like that.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 12:17 PM
am i the only one who thinks kiefer is taking this match seriously?

u said it yourself - its his first MS final. i dont think he's gonna give a ceremonial performance (like fedmug at RG)

Okay, seriously now: I really hope I'm wrong in not expecting too much from Kiefer (if anything ;)), as I rather care for watching a good match of tennis than for who ends up as the eventual winner.

But I don't think it's too far off to expect a complete beatdown from Rafa - he's in the form of his life, playing his best tennis on HC ever right now. Of course, Kiefer potentially has the tools to give him a bit of trouble, but here's the problem: Kiefer's head. And that while having to play the guy who may well have the best mental fortitude around... nay, not much of a chance.

I hope he'll be enjoying this once-in-a-lifetime experience! :D

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 12:18 PM
I hope he'll be enjoying this once-in-a-lifetime experience! :D

:yeah: no reason for him not to ;)

Manon
07-27-2008, 12:31 PM
4-8

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 01:27 PM
If this were in your country, he could put some THC in the bottle, make Rafa calm him down for once :D

Impossible. That stuff doesn't dissolve in water or other ionic dissolvents. :(

:lol:

DhammaTiger
07-27-2008, 02:20 PM
I am worried about Rafa. I am sure Kiefer will try his utmost to win and will not fold, as others are saying. You can see his determination in the end of the last set vs Simon and his celebrations after his win. He knows this is his last chance to win a masters. Rafa"s is not playing so well, too many unforced errors and not converting bps, will play into the eperienced hands of Kiefer. I hope Rafa wins but frankly I am very worried.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 02:32 PM
I am worried about Rafa. I am sure Kiefer will try his utmost to win and will not fold, as others are saying. You can see his determination in the end of the last set vs Simon and his celebrations after his win. He knows this is his last chance to win a masters. Rafa"s is not playing so well, too many unforced errors and not converting bps, will play into the eperienced hands of Kiefer. I hope Rafa wins but frankly I am very worried.


no need to worry. Kiefer had 69 unforced errors against Simon. he cant hang with the Clay Monster.

Kiefer also went for 3 hours yesterday. he is 31. recovery is suspect at best.

the bottom line: Kiefer has ZERO chance of winning today.

Warrior
07-27-2008, 03:15 PM
I am worried about Rafa. I am sure Kiefer will try his utmost to win and will not fold, as others are saying. You can see his determination in the end of the last set vs Simon and his celebrations after his win. He knows this is his last chance to win a masters. Rafa"s is not playing so well, too many unforced errors and not converting bps, will play into the eperienced hands of Kiefer. I hope Rafa wins but frankly I am very worried.


:haha: :rolleyes:

RogiRafaFan86
07-27-2008, 03:59 PM
The smart money is on Rafa to win this easily, but Kiefer has to be highly motivated being in his first Masters Series final (or maybe he'll be depressed by the fact that it's his first Masters Series final, lol). Anything can happen.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 04:29 PM
Kiefer has to be highly motivated being in his first Masters Series final (or maybe he'll be depressed by the fact that it's his first Masters Series final, lol).


brilliant. maybe nadal is depressed too. federer not being there to meet him etc.

i wouldnt be surprised if they both withdrew

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 04:30 PM
I am worried about Rafa. I am sure Kiefer will try his utmost to win and will not fold, as others are saying. You can see his determination in the end of the last set vs Simon and his celebrations after his win. He knows this is his last chance to win a masters. Rafa"s is not playing so well, too many unforced errors and not converting bps, will play into the eperienced hands of Kiefer. I hope Rafa wins but frankly I am very worried.

Sorry Ali, I like you as you are a nice person, but don't you think you are just exaggerating here for a bit?

There is no need for worry about Nadal at all. Unless something very nasty happens, Kiefer has ZERO chance, everybody who watched both semifinals yesterday should know that.

rofe
07-27-2008, 04:35 PM
:haha: :rolleyes:

:yeah:

Rafatards just whine too much even when the outcome of the match is never in doubt. :zzz:

Greatness
07-27-2008, 04:42 PM
If Nadal goes for the jugular right from the start, Kiefer will be lucky not to get bageled. Even if Nadal plays poorly, I still expect him to win; Kiefer will win 8 games at the most.

Damn
07-27-2008, 08:01 PM
5 games. Good poll for once

DhammaTiger
07-27-2008, 08:02 PM
no need to worry. Kiefer had 69 unforced errors against Simon. he cant hang with the Clay Monster.

Kiefer also went for 3 hours yesterday. he is 31. recovery is suspect at best.

the bottom line: Kiefer has ZERO chance of winning today.
Cd thanks for reassuring me:hug: and what you said happened.
Sorry Ali, I like you as you are a nice person, but don't you think you are just exaggerating here for a bit?

There is no need for worry about Nadal at all. Unless something very nasty happens, Kiefer has ZERO chance, everybody who watched both semifinals yesterday should know that.

Thanks for liking me Karin :hug; :smooch: you are very nice also. But I couldn't help it. Having seen many upsets in my life. rafa is human and no one in the world has zero chances. Anyway, you were absolutely right and I was wrong.

Xenosys
07-27-2008, 08:03 PM
Well that was a bit of a tanking wasn't it. I'd at least expected Kiefer to win a few more games. No longer my favourite German after Heidi Klum.

peterparker
07-28-2008, 04:14 AM
Well that was a bit of a tanking wasn't it. I'd at least expected Kiefer to win a few more games. No longer my favourite German after Heidi Klum.

lol. I find klum's expressions on that designer show annoying. :)

Nena isn't no. 1?