Toronto SF: Nadal beats Murray 7-6(2) 6-3 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Toronto SF: Nadal beats Murray 7-6(2) 6-3

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federernadalfan
07-27-2008, 01:52 AM
Nadal's game wasn't too good today imo. Just enough to win against Murray. Murray was pretty much agitated from the first set. Bashing the umpire. Good try from Murray in this tournament. Well done to Nadal to make the finals. I believe he is going to win tomorrow. :worship::worship:

TMJordan
07-27-2008, 01:53 AM
:bigclap:

Pfloyd
07-27-2008, 01:53 AM
Guys, don't rush the threads....

FiBeR
07-27-2008, 01:54 AM
:haha:

:retard: not yet!!

5-3 40-40

federernadalfan
07-27-2008, 01:55 AM
yeah too early on this one, sorry about that

LinkMage
07-27-2008, 01:56 AM
Great fight from Murray but wasn't enough to beat Nadal.

Too tough this Nadal.


Some stats:
Nadal: 10 winners, 16 UEs
Murray: 24 winners, 40 UEs

FiBeR
07-27-2008, 01:56 AM
GSM :p

now yes

Richardgm
07-27-2008, 01:56 AM
Congrats RAFA!

cobalt60
07-27-2008, 01:57 AM
:singer: Ain't no stopping him now, he's on the move. Ain't no stopping him now, he's got the groove. :singer:

I cheated a bit but thanks McFadden and Whitehead.
ADAM- you need to karaoke this song :angel:

Jaap
07-27-2008, 01:57 AM
Nadal's game wasn't too good today imo. Just enough to win against Murray. Murray was pretty much agitated from the first set. Bashing the umpire. Good try from Murray in this tournament. Well done to Nadal to make the finals. I believe he is going to win tomorrow. :worship::worship:

Saddo. :retard:

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 01:58 AM
Amazing match. One of the best of the year.

VAAAAMOOOOOS!

THIS IS TENNIS!

Ilovetheblues_86
07-27-2008, 01:58 AM
Nadal made the game really boring.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 01:58 AM
Nadal's biceps are still bigger than Murray's. Good effort by the Scot against the best player ever.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 01:58 AM
Nadal's game wasn't too good today imo. Just enough to win against Murray. Murray was pretty much agitated from the first set. Bashing the umpire. Good try from Murray in this tournament. Well done to Nadal to make the finals. I believe he is going to win tomorrow. :worship::worship:

Nadal played out of his skin, in my opinion. I thought he was awesome today, particularly that cross court backhand. He played his best today and Murray just couldn't do quite enough. Great match though.

Cafisho
07-27-2008, 01:58 AM
I want a GIF of the raging mad Nadal at the last game.

Pfloyd
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
Nadal won!

BUT:

Murray couldn't get the trainer on time before the TB.

He could'nt challenge a call when he wanted to.

Murray is a chocker and shoul've won the second set AT LEAST.

edit: almost forgot: Murray did not play his Best Tennis.

Luck Rafa. :p

tae04
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
Yes!!!!!!!!! Nadal Is Shutting All You Haters Up This Year.

kafemotor
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
Time, now!!! Congrat Rafa... I just followed the scoreboard. Anyone can tell me how the match was?

richie21
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
I thought Andy played the best tennis i've seen him play(i thought he played better than in his match against Nadal in AO 2007 and certainly much better than in his yesterday's match against the Djoker),especially in the first set.......but it wasn't enough to even take a set to Nadal,let alone beat him.

Nadal is just a MACHINE.

federernadalfan
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
this game was indeed sort of boring

Jaap
07-27-2008, 01:59 AM
this game was indeed sort of boring

You're boring with your shit threads.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
I thought Andy played the best tennis i've seen him play(i thought he played better than in his match against Nadal in AO 2007 and certainly much better than in his yesterday's match against the Djoker),especially in the first set.......but it wasn't enough to even take a set to Nadal,let alone beat him.

Nadal is just a MACHINE.

G4.
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
a machine like those cyclists, he is never tired

tennis lover
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
now that the match has actually finished- congratulations to Nadal. He played the big points better and I think Murray let his temper get to him too much at the end. Still a good tournament for him though. :)

I find it really sad that people are so desperate to be the first person to post the result that they start a thread before the match has even finished. :shrug:

Richardgm
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
I want a GIF of the raging mad Nadal at the last game.

Me too. That was something.

SwiSha
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
Your boring with your shit threads.

ditto

HarryMan
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
Its ridiculously tough on Rafa's opponents when you have to work extremely hard to win each and every point.

Murray was really frustrated and I can't really blame him for that.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:00 AM
I thought Andy played the best tennis i've seen him play(i thought he played better than in his match against Nadal in AO 2007 and certainly much better than in his yesterday's match against the Djoker),especially in the first set.......but it wasn't enough to even take a set to Nadal,let alone beat him.

Nadal is just a MACHINE.

Maybe this will put to bed the silly notion that Murray is just a pusher who can't generate pace (take note, Prima Donna).

Nadal really was superhuman. That backhand is just awesome and I take back what I said earlier. He's ready for the US Open.

MIMIC
07-27-2008, 02:01 AM
Nadal had 9 winners.

Pathetic.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:01 AM
Nadal won!

BUT:

Murray couldn't get the trainer on time before the TB.

He could'nt challenge a call when he wanted to.

Murray is a chocker and shoul've won the second set AT LEAST.

edit: almost forgot: Murray did not play his Best Tennis.

Luck Rafa. :p
You antirafatard ;)

Que les den. :devil:

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 02:01 AM
this game was indeed sort of boring

I thought it was far from boring. I was on the edge of my seat the whole match.

Match of the tourney IMO.

knight_ley
07-27-2008, 02:01 AM
Kiwi will beat him tomorrow. :devil:

ReturnWinner
07-27-2008, 02:01 AM
Murray had to play like four flat deep shot to win a point, Nadal intensity consistency,defense and power is just too good.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Nadal had 9 winners.

Pathetic.

Spartan tennis is better than sex. Nadal is a winner: he doesn't need winners to win ;)

Sean.
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
:worship: Rafa

Murray could have won this I felt! If he keeps it up he'll be a threat at USO

tennizen
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Nadal's game wasn't too good today imo. Just enough to win against Murray. Murray was pretty much agitated from the first set. Bashing the umpire. Good try from Murray in this tournament. Well done to Nadal to make the finals. I believe he is going to win tomorrow. :worship::worship:

If you open another thread, I'm going to :banghead: against the wall.

Andi-M
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Murray today proved mtf correct he is nothing but a pusher. Nadal made all the plays and all Murray could do was moonball like the mug he is.

Mug pusher. will never win a big title.

SwiSha
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Nadal had 9 winners.

Pathetic.

he had 10

pathetic u cant read properly

rhinooooo
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Great match. I was very impressed by Murray's performance for the majority of the match. Alot of fun to see him playing aggressive. Congrats to Rafa, incredible winning streak. Also, how good is is his backhand now? Some awesome stuff.

freeandlonely
07-27-2008, 02:02 AM
Life kind of suck if you are not a fan of Nadal.

kalisita
07-27-2008, 02:03 AM
this game was indeed sort of boring

It wasn't so much boring as it had a weird feel to it, IMO. Like both played well, but not as intense as you'd think they would for most of the match and the audience didn't seem too into it, either.

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 02:03 AM
Muzza's 40 UE (Nadal 16) and his demented behaviour did not help him. Anyway this tourny is Nadal's, another HC one for this "clay-court specialist", undeniably the best player in the world right now.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:03 AM
Its ridiculously tough on Rafa's opponents when you have to work extremely hard to win each and every point.

Murray was really frustrated and I can't really blame him for that.

Exactly.
In tennis,Nadal is taking the words "concentration","mental toughness" and "fitness" into a whole different level.

TankingTheSet
07-27-2008, 02:03 AM
Murray played very well for most of the first set. When Murray was serving at 5-5 he tweaked his knee. The :retard: television director had a policy of always keeping the camera on Nadal so we didn't see how Murray reacted when it happened and Nadal was waiting for Murray to serve. He was asking for the trainer at 6-5* but the umpire said to wait until the until of the set. He grimaced a few times with his knee. Murray seemed to lose his rhythm completely and lost the tie-break. After that he got his knee taped up.

In the second set Murray didn't give up but Nadal was too good.

HoistDaColors
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
good effort andy. just not enough. obviously to beat nadal, andy had to make every shot. but he botched quite a few.

Naranoc
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
So which MTF'er was going crazy with that massive Rafa head? :lol:

Decent to watch :yeah:. It's quite funny imagining posters with their threads typed out, mouse hovering over the "Submit thread" button as they desperately wait for the match to end (or in some cases, let their excitement get the better of them and post prematurely). A new thread starter tomorrow would be nice.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Two things stood out for me. Nadal's backhand and Murray's improved forehand. I really think Nadal's backhand is the eual of his forehand now. And Murray's forehand was really impressive. He generated so much pace off of it.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Great match!

Raf deservedly won... CONGRATS RAF on your second Rogers Cup Title! :hatoff:

Eh... oh, wait. :p

Nay, joking aside, I was very pleasantly surprised by the way Muzza (yeah, I love him as well, as you might now by now :D) kept on fighting after losing that first set where he played so well, in the TB. I expected him to fold like a cheap tent thereafter, but no, he didn't. Hope that knee problem won't bother him too much in Cincy!
Kudo's, Muzza! :hug:

What a gigantic difference in quality of tennis between the two semifinals btw... :help:

Ilovetheblues_86
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Life kind of suck if you are not a fan of Nadal.
Next time Murray you can do it.

Made me change the channel.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Muzza's 40 UE ([/B]Nadal 16) and his demented behaviour did not help him. Anyway this tourny is Nadal's, another HC one for this "clay-court specialist", undeniably the best player in the world right now.

If you only look at the scoreboard ,you would think it was a choking stat for Andy but if you look at the match,you would understand from where most of those UEs came from.

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 02:05 AM
Nadal's madness outburst in the final game should be in youtube soon. Priceless.

tennizen
07-27-2008, 02:05 AM
Amazing shots from Murray. Really sad that he had to lose. But he beat Djokovic for the first time. So this is a big step for him. As for Nadal, another final on blue clay:zzz: Wake me up when he wins a match on a real tennis surface

kalisita
07-27-2008, 02:05 AM
Murray played very well for most of the first set. When Murray was serving at 5-5 he tweaked his knee. The :retard: television director had a policy of always keeping the camera on Nadal so we didn't see how Murray reacted when it happened and Nadal was waiting for Murray to serve. He was asking for the trainer at 6-5* but the umpire said to wait until the until of the set. He grimaced a few times with his knee. Murray seemed to lose his rhythm completely and lost the tie-break. After that he got his knee taped up.

In the second set Murray didn't give up.

I know! I wanted to see Murray fighting with the umpire! I can't help it. I like that kind of stuff now and again.

Corey Feldman
07-27-2008, 02:07 AM
Expected result

mowgli in his moonball element on these clay courts

you'll get him on the better surfaces Muzza

scoobs
07-27-2008, 02:07 AM
Pretty much the sort of match that I expected - Andy went on the attack whenever he could and sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't but that's still his best option - didn't work often enough.

Don't know what the deal with the knee is - he was still moving well in the second set so I don't think it was a big issue. I don't think having to fight with the umpire about getting the trainer on and being told you can't at 6-5* was especially helpful though, purely from a concentration perspective. Found that an odd decision from Mourier.

Regardless, not convinced it would have mattered too much.

Andy played as well aggressively as I have seen him do so far - the forehand has suddenly improved lately and was very good early on, more up and down as the match wore on.

Nadal was...Nadal. Serve wasn't great actually and more UEs than you might expect but still - he knows just where to put the ball and how, off just about every shot he hits, to make it difficult - it is so draining because he just doesn't give you a nice "easy" ball to hit - they're either deep, or wide, or spinning viciously, or way up high, or hard, or all of these. So tough to counter consistently.

Nadal was too good today, overall I am happy with Andy's performance and very happy with his week overall, and I hope that knee is nothing to worry about.

Jimnik
07-27-2008, 02:07 AM
Yup, unfortunately these courts are slow enough to give Rafa the edge over anyone. Muzza put up a good fight (as expected) but I don't see anyone other than a hard hitting ball basher defeating Nadal these days. Without power, you have nothing to hurt him.

Anyway, congrats Rafa. 28 wins in a row (including all surfaces) and counting.

LinkMage
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
So which MTF'er was going crazy with that massive Rafa head? :lol:



RFK or Clay Death.

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
If you only look at the scoreboard ,you would think it was a choking stat for Andy but if you look at the match,you would understand from where most of those UEs came from.

Well I watched the match from start to end, would you care to enlighten me? thanx.

T2KN
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
I want a GIF of the raging mad Nadal at the last game.

lmao

I was a bit scared too. Fistpumps ain't got nothing on that.

Yappa
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
I lost all my hard earned vcash. :awww:
Nadal better pay up tomorrow. ;)

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
Thye try all the tricks to beat Nadal: baseline game, going to the net, hitting it hard and flat but nothing seems to work. . Gallant Murray played his best tennis ever but to no avail. I can understand his frustation playing against this Spanish wall.

Spartan tennis at its best.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:08 AM
Maybe this will put to bed the silly notion that Murray is just a pusher who can't generate pace (take note, Prima Donna).

Yeah but to be honest ,he is a bit responsible of that reputation: i understand that he chooses to play agressively or not depending the opponent but still,i think he would be much more popular and probably have even better results if he played as agressively as he often plays when he faces Nadal against the other opponents.
He's got the game to go for the winners and not for pushing the ball, waiting for opponent's mistakes and just sometimes going for the winners.

GlennMirnyi
07-27-2008, 02:09 AM
Someone ban this thread started from starting threads... starts threads before the end of EVERY MATCH.

That said, the match was crap of course. Murray is a pansy. Supposed to be a great returner but took a set to have a single break point against a shit server.

Another one who loves bending over. Now it's for sure.

What can we do, this is a mug era where all players bend over and lose before the match against the top players.

Sad state of affairs.

dsingh7
07-27-2008, 02:09 AM
it was an entertaining match..Have not seen Murray playing this good many times...he is for sure one of the best returner of the serve ..good luck Rafa for final

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:09 AM
I can genuinely see Nadal winning the US Open now. I was so off-base earlier when I said he hadn't improved on hard since last year. Drastically underestimated his backhand.

wildegirl05
07-27-2008, 02:09 AM
rafa :woohoo: great match, kudos to both players.


Amazing shots from Murray. Really sad that he had to lose. But he beat Djokovic for the first time. So this is a big step for him. As for Nadal, another final on blue clay:zzz: Wake me up when he wins a match on a real tennis surface

Expected result

mowgli in his moonball element on these clay courts

you'll get him on the better surfaces Muzza

:unsure: guys, channeling each other's thoughts? :p

green25814
07-27-2008, 02:10 AM
I feel sorry for anyone who has to play nadal right now.

Murray was getting no angles in the rallies, and he had to keep going for insane shots, which he was hit and miss with.

nateyang
07-27-2008, 02:10 AM
it was scary

Very scary.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:10 AM
Thye try all the tricks to beat Nadal: baseline game, going to the net, hitting it hard and flat but nothing seems to work. . Gallant Murray played his best tennis ever but to no avail. I can understand his frustation playing against this Spanish wall.

Spartan tennis at its best.

I'm not sure about his best ever. He played well in the first set, but was patchy in the second. He hung in there, though, and never gave up.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:11 AM
I thought it was far from boring. I was on the edge of my seat the whole match.

Match of the tourney IMO.

Hum wouldn't go as far.
On the whole,i agree it was the highest quality match of the week but just for that amazing tie break,the yesterday's match beetween Nadal and Gasquet would deserve to be the match of the tourney

krystlel
07-27-2008, 02:11 AM
Great match. Murray played a fantastic match, one of the best matches he's played but Nadal was so tough as usual and is so difficult to beat right now.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:11 AM
Yeah but to be honest ,he is a bit responsible of that reputation: i understand that he chooses to play agressively or not depending the opponent but still,i think he would be much more popular and probably have even better results if he played as agressively as he often plays when he faces Nadal against the other opponents.
He's got the game to go for the winners ,not for pushing the ball, waiting for opponent's mistakes and just sometimes going for the winners.

My comment was directed at Prima Donna, who seems to think Murray can't generate pace and is only capable of pushing.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:12 AM
u cant play long points with nadal.

not even if you're a pusher like murray.

if he had went for his shots he may have had a chance.

and: expected win.

Yappa
07-27-2008, 02:12 AM
I don't know. Nadal makes most (defensive) players look good. Since they don't have any other choice, they have to change the plan and go for their shots.
Usually, they still lose though.

green25814
07-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Someone ban this thread started from starting threads... starts threads before the end of EVERY MATCH.

That said, the match was crap of course. Murray is a pansy. Supposed to be a great returner but took a set to have a single break point against a shit server.

Another one who loves bending over. Now it's for sure.

What can we do, this is a mug era where all players bend over and lose before the match against the top players.

Sad state of affairs.

The reason why its so hard to break nadal isnt because of his serve, its because of his ground game. To clarify, nadal is the best rallier on the planet, and without getting free points on your serve, its almost impossible to win a game against him. So his quality of serve doesnt really come into it.

shotgun
07-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Murray did the best he could to be agressive, but it's not his game and most of the time it won't be powerful enough to beat Nadal.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Someone ban this thread started from starting threads... starts threads before the end of EVERY MATCH.

That said, the match was crap of course. Murray is a pansy. Supposed to be a great returner but took a set to have a single break point against a shit server.

Another one who loves bending over. Now it's for sure.

What can we do, this is a mug era where all players bend over and lose before the match against the top players.

Sad state of affairs.

So is it going to be self-immolation, cutting your wrists or hanging?

Red clay, green clay, blue clay.......:devil:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Hum wouldn't go as far.
On the whole,i agree it was the highest quality match of the week but just for that amazing tie break,the yesterday's match beetween Nadal and Gasquet would deserve to be the match of the tourney

Nadal-Gasquet had the set of the week (perhaps the year?), but I think tonight's was a better match. It was competitive all the way until the last game, when Murray dumped that volley in the net at Deuce.

octatennis
07-27-2008, 02:14 AM
Nadal's madness outburst in the final game should be in youtube soon. Priceless.


too much tension on him.

Ilovetheblues_86
07-27-2008, 02:14 AM
The people who thinks Muzza is a pusher doesn´t play tennis. It must be that.

Warrior
07-27-2008, 02:14 AM
Murray has a game to bother Nadal, but he just made too many errors.

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:14 AM
Very good match. I think Murray played as good as he possibly can. This was his best loss I've ever watched. Not sure if it was his one of his best matches overall I watched. Despite the loss, this should be still up there somewhere.

Two great players facing up each other and pounding shots over the court. Really impressive shot making. Irrespective of the outcome, I think you can't ask for much more entertainment. I doesn't get much better than Nadal saving a break point by playing a forehand dropshot about head-heigh off a Murray loopy forehand that lands near the baseline. Enough highlights on both ends. Good emotion of both players, that's what I like best :yeah:

Funny how Mourier had to take some shit by both players. First he got ruffled by Rafa who was pissed off about the double fault after Mourier warned him for time violation exactly on break point the first time. A few games later Murray told him "I'm not joking when I'm saying challenge" as he asked to confirm and didn't request the challenge quickly enough, according to Murray.


Really good matches today, it's after 4am for me and I didn't get any tired or sleepy at all due to this good entertainment tonight :banana:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:15 AM
u cant play long points with nadal.

not even if you're a pusher like murray.

if he had went for his shots he may have had a chance.

and: expected win.

You don't think Murray went for his shots? Did you not watch the match? You thought Murray pushed tonight?

Jeu_Set_Match
07-27-2008, 02:15 AM
too much tension on him.

And he passed it on me, I'm too scared to go to bed now, and it's 4am here

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 02:15 AM
Amazing shots from Murray. Really sad that he had to lose. But he beat Djokovic for the first time. So this is a big step for him. As for Nadal, another final on blue clay:zzz: Wake me up when he wins a match on a real tennis surface

I was waiting for someone to say that! :lol:

The haters are pathetic!

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:16 AM
Well I watched the match from start to end, would you care to enlighten me? thanx.

Well,to sum up,many of those UEs were the results of some unbelievable defense from Nadal

Andi-M
07-27-2008, 02:16 AM
Nadal is crazy consistant right now, and imo he is favorite for USO.

Who are his challengers Fed? When was the last time he won a HC title....??
Djokovic who has been out of sorts since about June....???

Nadal is shit hot right now, his run must end at some point but it could be a long one.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Murray has a game to bother Nadal, but he just made too many errors.

When did I hear that last time? Players taking risks against Nadal. Nah, can't be.

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Hum wouldn't go as far.
On the whole,i agree it was the highest quality match of the week but just for that amazing tie break,the yesterday's match beetween Nadal and Gasquet would deserve to be the match of the tourney

The last 2 sets were not that great in Nadal-Gasquet. Now the first set of that match was the set of the tourney but I think today's was a higher quality match.

kafemotor
07-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Exactly.
In tennis,Nadal is taking the words "concentration","mental toughness" and "fitness" into a whole different level.

Agree. I can see Michael Jordan in other body. This sport is never the same again. Bad or good, dunno much :devil:

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:20 AM
Funnily enough,almost nobody called this loss a choke from Murray whereas a lot of posters there were calling Gasquet's loss against Nadal a choke.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
You don't think Murray went for his shots? Did you not watch the match? You thought Murray pushed tonight?

are u saying that murray is NOT a pusher?

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
My comment was directed at Prima Donna, who seems to think Murray can't generate pace and is only capable of pushing.


Oki,Clydey :)

shotgun
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
Funnily enough,almost nobody called this loss a choke from Murray whereas a lot of posters there were calling Gasquet's loss against Nadal a choke.

Gasquet's loss wasn't a choke at all, just lack of heart (and fitness).

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
Well,to sum up,many of those UEs were the results of some unbelievable defense from Nadal

Well and of the position of planets... u-n-f-o-r-c-e-d error is what Im talking about, what part of it you don't get?

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
yeah too early on this one, sorry about that
You were given the benefit of doubt earlier a few times as you were already accused by many posters to make threads too early, this time it definitely was much too early.

Do not make threads until the match point is converted! :(

The reason for this is simple. It adds too much confusion if threads are started too early and people are given the impression that the match is over.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:22 AM
Funnily enough,almost nobody called this loss a choke from Murray whereas a lot of posters there were calling Gasquet's loss against Nadal a choke.

I think they say that because the last sets were demolition jobs. I don't think it was a choke, though. I just don't thinlk Gasquet could maintain it and gassed a little.

Murray was competitive all the way. He didn't blow a major lead. The sky's the limit for Gasquet if he just believes in himself a bit more.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:23 AM
are u saying that murray is NOT a pusher?

I'm saying he plays a certain way depending on the opponent. You said that Murray didn't go for his shots in this match. I'd like to know which match you were watching tonight?

tangerine_dream
07-27-2008, 02:23 AM
It's not just Roger who's feeling the pressure. Rafa and Novak are feeling it too. A lot of choking going on lately with the Big Three. Rafa's definitely feeling the pressure, we're starting to see a side to him never seen before. :devil: On top of that, his mysterious girlfriend Maria finally decided to show her pretty face and was sitting in the players box. :eek: What is this world coming to? Good luck to Rafa in the final.

Snagglepuss' delaying tactics were pretty bad tonight, and his possum act is getting old. He moans and cries and acts like he's dying then runs like a rabbit a game later. His constant bitching at the chair umpire was worse than Roddick but he gets away with it because he's young, fugly, and Scottish. ;)

kafemotor
07-27-2008, 02:24 AM
Nadal's madness outburst in the final game should be in youtube soon. Priceless.

Bring it on plz.... I cant help waiting :P

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:24 AM
The last 2 sets were not that great in Nadal-Gasquet. Now the first set of that match was the set of the tourney but I think today's was a higher quality match.

That's a bit what i said ;)

MrChopin
07-27-2008, 02:24 AM
Amazing match. One of the best of the year.

VAAAAMOOOOOS!

THIS IS TENNIS!

Indeed, amazing match, probably the best hardcourt match of the year. How many winners from Rafa in that first set? Yes, count the two drop shots. Thanks ATP.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:25 AM
I'm saying he plays a certain way depending on the opponent. You said that Murray didn't go for his shots in this match. I'd like to know which match you were watching tonight?

murray's attacking shot is a push shot. hope this clarifies my views on murray.

he couldnt be aggressive even if he wanted to

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
Maybe this will put to bed the silly notion that Murray is just a pusher who can't generate pace (take note, Prima Donna).

Nadal really was superhuman. That backhand is just awesome and I take back what I said earlier. He's ready for the US Open.
Losing in straight sets by deviating from the usual strategy is hardly sufficient evidence to support your notion.

brent-o
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
Amazing shots from Murray. Really sad that he had to lose. But he beat Djokovic for the first time. So this is a big step for him. As for Nadal, another final on blue clay:zzz: Wake me up when he wins a match on a real tennis surface

Oh shut up, according to people like you every tournament is played on clay. Green clay at Wimbledon, blue clay here, the blue clay at the Australian, clay everywhere. So what tournaments would you say aren't played like clay? I didn't hear any whining about the slowness when Federer was winning these tournaments.

Rafa = Fed Killa
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
SPARTA!!!

What a fighter.

RAFA the real #1 and the savior of tennis.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:26 AM
murray's attacking shot is a push shot. hope this clarifies my views on murray.

he couldnt be aggressive even if he wanted to

Sure thing. He was pushing tonight. I guess some people just want to remain ignorant and will never be convinced.

richie21
07-27-2008, 02:29 AM
Well and of the position of planets... u-n-f-o-r-c-e-d error is what Im talking about, what part of it you don't get?


I know what an unforced error is,thanks.
Let's put it that way: an unforced error which comes after a very long rally where you consistently went for your shots and where the opponents basicly retrieved every balls has not quite the same valor as an unforced error which comes at the beginning of a rally

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:29 AM
murray's attacking shot is a push shot. hope this clarifies my views on murray.

he couldnt be aggressive even if he wanted to
If you're talking about the careless approach in the first game of 2nd off which Nadal could lob him, yes that was a push shot.

The rest of his game as he went for big shots hardly had to do anything with "pushing". Unless you want to call 150kmh returns or (attempted) winners a push shot. Well, talking about this match tonight, that would be about as clever as GlennMirnyi categorizing Nadal as a moonballer.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:31 AM
Losing in straight sets by deviating from the usual strategy is hardly sufficient evidence to support your notion.

The way he played tonight does support my notion.

You said that Murray can't generate his own pace. He made a mockery of that statement. You said that he isn't effective by employing an attacking strategy. I think he was tremendously effective tonight and would have beaten anyone other than Nadal tonight, who defended like a maniac.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was a "routine victory for Nadal".

Vlad1980
07-27-2008, 02:32 AM
Expected. Nadal beat his toughest opponent last round in 3 sets.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 02:33 AM
The way he played tonight does support my notion.

You said that Murray can't generate his own pace. He made a mockery of that statement. You said that he isn't effective by employing an attacking strategy. I think he was tremendously effective tonight and would have beaten anyone other than Nadal tonight, who defended like a maniac.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was a "routine victory for Nadal".

He is not kidding himself. Inside he is hurting a lot.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:33 AM
nadal was more aggressive than murray tonight

Corey Feldman
07-27-2008, 02:34 AM
Oh shut up, according to people like you every tournament is played on clay. Green clay at Wimbledon, blue clay here, the blue clay at the Australian, clay everywhere. So what tournaments would you say aren't played like clay? I didn't hear any whining about the slowness when Federer was winning these tournaments.

I was waiting for someone to say that! :lol:

The haters are pathetic!Just to let you 2 know .. tennizen is a Nadal fan and was being ironic/sarcastic ;)

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:36 AM
nadal was more aggressive than murray tonight

Yet Murray hit more winners? Right.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:37 AM
Yet Murray hit more winners? Right.

where do u think his UEs come from?

check the average depth of nadal's shots , not to mention the well known topspin

Andi-M
07-27-2008, 02:37 AM
Murrays play tonight at times was from another planet. He was too agressive at times if anything. Like ive said before Murray is not just FHs and BHs he is ecletic he can mix it up however he sees fit. He can do so many things that other players could only dream of.

The problem with having soo much in your armery is that you rarely use the same game plan twice, hence your less likely to be able to carry it out consistantly which is why murrays game is still developong and will take a while to flourish.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:37 AM
The way he played tonight does support my notion.

You said that Murray can't generate his own pace. He made a mockery of that statement. You said that he isn't effective by employing an attacking strategy. I think he was tremendously effective tonight and would have beaten anyone other than Nadal tonight, who defended like a maniac.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was a "routine victory for Nadal".
Go back and read my messages; I clearly stated that while Murray may have the ability to win matches and show flashes of brilliance, at this stage of his career he is unable to sustain aggressive play and thus eventually will begin to spray balls or either revert to playing his usual passive game.

If anything, this match does nothing more than emphasize my point, which is that Murray is unable to consistently apply any level of aggression over an extended period of time.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:39 AM
where do u think his UEs come from?

check the average depth of nadal's shots , not to mention the well known topspin

So Nadal was more aggressive even though Murray hit more winners and more unforced errors? That indicates a more aggressive approach. Not that it matters. Nadal got the job done. He is aggressive in a different way.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:40 AM
Go back and read my messages; I clearly stated that while Murray may have the ability to win matches and show flashes of brilliance, at this stage of his career he is unable to sustain aggressive play and thus eventually will begin to spray balls or either go back to playing his usual passive game.

If anything, this match does nothing more than emphasize my point, which is that Murray is unable to consistently apply any level of aggression over an extended period of time.

He did sustain it. Anyone would hit UEs while being that aggressive. So are you saying that this was a routine win for Nadal?

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 02:41 AM
nadal's average rally shot is pretty aggressive compared to murray's push.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:42 AM
nadal's average rally shot is pretty aggressive compared to murray's push.

Grow up. No point in having a tennis discussion with you.

star
07-27-2008, 02:43 AM
You don't think Murray went for his shots? Did you not watch the match? You thought Murray pushed tonight?

You will find that Murray is a pusher and Nadal is a moonballer despite all evidence to the contrary. :lol:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:44 AM
You will find that Murray is a pusher and Nadal is a moonballer despite all evidence to the contrary. :lol:

Yep, tonight's match was just a pushing match. No aggression from either player ;)

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:45 AM
He did sustain it. Anyone would hit UEs while being that aggressive. So are you saying that this was a routine win for Nadal?
I've seen hundreds of Nadal matches and based on the standards that one would apply to his matches, I'd be inclined to say yes.

How is this any better than what Murray did in Australia against Nadal ? He should have won at least one set, yet ended up getting ousted in straights. On a more positive note, he's still a developing youngster with plenty of talent and promise, so perhaps tonight's match will serve as inspiration, but moral victories don't exist in tennis and they certainly don't when you lose a match in straights.

DDrago2
07-27-2008, 02:49 AM
are u saying that murray is NOT a pusher?

Often he is but today no, just look at the stats. Nadals direct points + UEs mount up to 20, where Murray had almost four time as many, so he made 4/5 of the game... you can't outpush the ultimate pusher!

brent-o
07-27-2008, 02:51 AM
Just to let you 2 know .. tennizen is a Nadal fan and was being ironic/sarcastic ;)

Oh ok, sorry tennizen for getting my panties in a bunch. I can't see irony if it hit me in the face.

star
07-27-2008, 02:52 AM
There are some people on this board capable of comprehending that you're really nothing more than the equivalent of an ailing puppy that could use a rabies shot.

Your simile could use some work. A rabies shot would do nothing at all to help an ailing puppy, and in fact an ailing puppy should not have any inoculations. Rabies shots are preventative, not curative.

:hatoff:

DDrago2
07-27-2008, 02:52 AM
I've seen hundreds of Nadal matches and based on the standards that one would apply to his matches, I'd be inclined to say yes.


I disagree. Nadal wasn't able to up his game. When he wanted to in a few important games, he couldn't because Murray had the ability to stay with him. It did look as a routine win, but had Murray had a little more he would overpower Nadal tonight

Ivanatis
07-27-2008, 02:53 AM
Well done, Rafa. :)

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:53 AM
I've seen hundreds of Nadal matches and based on the standards that one would apply to his matches, I'd be inclined to say yes.

How is this any better than what Murray did in Australia against Nadal ? He should have won at least one set, yet ended up getting ousted in straights. On a more positive note, he's still a developing youngster with plenty of talent and promise, so perhaps tonight's match will serve as inspiration, but moral victories don't exist in tennis and they certainly don't when you lose a match in straights.

This match was anything but routine for Nadal. If you couldn't see that, there's not much point in discussing this any further. Nadal played out of his skin tonight and he had to.

Should he have won the first set? Probably. That said, his knee clearly affected him during the TB, whether it was mental or physical. It bothered him that he couldn't get the trainer on.

Neely
07-27-2008, 02:54 AM
Nadal "only" won 11 points more despite taking the tiebreak 7-2 and having three games advantage in the 2nd set. That's not much and shows that in the 2nd set almost every game was over deuce or close.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:56 AM
I disagree. Nadal wasn't able to up his game. When he wanted to in a few important games, he couldn't because Murray had the ability to stay with him. That's why it looked as a routine win, but had Murray had a little more he would overpower Nadal tonight
Why would Nadal need to up his game when he's already leading by a set and is facing an opponent that is playing out of his comfort zone ? Near the end of the match Nadal started aiming everything towards the Murray forehand and the end result was shot after shot being sent wide, followed by the occasional FH CC to the Murray backhand which caused absolute mayhem.

Knightmace
07-27-2008, 02:56 AM
Dam nice try Murray.

Only Kiefer's lerft to stop Nadal

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 02:56 AM
Only Kiefer's lerft to stop Nadal

You don't really expect THAT to happen, do you? :p

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:57 AM
This match was anything but routine for Nadal. If you couldn't see that, there's not much point in discussing this any further. Nadal played out of his skin tonight and he had to.

Should he have won the first set? Probably. That said, his knee clearly affected him during the TB, whether it was mental or physical. It bothered him that he couldn't get the trainer on.
Murray was never close to beating Nadal, there are no moral victories in sports.

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 02:57 AM
The way he played tonight does support my notion.

You said that Murray can't generate his own pace. He made a mockery of that statement. You said that he isn't effective by employing an attacking strategy. I think he was tremendously effective tonight and would have beaten anyone other than Nadal tonight, who defended like a maniac.
You're kidding yourself if you think this was a "routine victory for Nadal".

No, he wouldn't. Everyone who plays Nadal plays more aggressive thanks to Nadal's shots. Murray played great tennis tonight, but this loss to Nadal on HC just shows that he's not yet near the top 3 when they play what they can.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 02:58 AM
Why would Nadal need to up his game when he's already leading by a set and is facing an opponent that is playing out of his comfort zone ? Near the end of the match Nadal started aiming everything towards the Murray forehand and the end result was shot after shot being sent wide, followed by the occasional FH CC to the Murray backhand which caused absolute mayhem.

Shot after shot sent wide? The second set was tight. The 6-3 score is misleading. Andy had chances and played better than he did against Nole while "out of his comfort zone".

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:01 AM
No, he wouldn't. Everyone who plays Nadal plays more aggressive thanks to Nadal's shots. Murray played great tennis tonight, but this loss to Nadal on HC just shows that he's not yet near the top 3 when they play what they can.

I don't see your logic. He gave Nadal a very tough match and beat Djokovic, yet he's nowhere near the top 3?

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't see the logic.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:03 AM
Shot after shot sent wide? The second set was tight. The 6-3 score is misleading. Andy had chances and played better than he did against Nole while "out of his comfort zone".
Near the end of the match Murray just started swinging for the fences, a tactic which from time to time would generate the desired result, but at the end it became painfully obvious that he was resigned to defeat.

There was never a point in the match during which Murray was in the driver's seat, the match was played on Nadal's terms, if you're so obstinate that you're unwilling to concede this fact, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Paul Henri Mathieu had Nadal on the canvas a few years ago in Paris according to the logic being applied here.

Nadal has been made to appear vulnerable by many players, but few can boast of actually having blasted him off the court -- Murray can't even brag of having taken a set after playing the most aggressive match of his life.

Corey Feldman
07-27-2008, 03:04 AM
Your simile could use some work. A rabies shot would do nothing at all to help an ailing puppy, and in fact an ailing puppy should not have any inoculations. Rabies shots are preventative, not curative.

:hatoff:someone should give you a shot

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:05 AM
I don't see your logic. He gave Nadal a very tough match and beat Djokovic, yet he's nowhere near the top 3?

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't see the logic.
In all fairness, Djokovic really stunk up the joint.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:06 AM
Near the end of the match Murray just started swinging for the fences, a tactic which from time to time would generate the desired result, but at the end it became painfully obvious that he was resigned to defeat.

There was never a point in the match during which Murray was in the driver's seat, the match was played on Nadal's terms, if you're so obstinate that you're unwilling to concede this fact, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Paul Henri Mathieu had Nadal on the canvas a few years ago in Paris according to the logic being applied here.

Nadal has been made to appear vulnerable by many players, but few can boast of actually having blasted him off the court -- Murray can't even brag of having taken a set after playing the most aggressive match of his life.

You don't have to win a set to have a competitive match. Both sets were and Nadal edged them. You're clearly too stubborn to admit when you're wrong. So much so that you still don't think Murray can generate pace. It's quite sad, actually.

luie
07-27-2008, 03:07 AM
I've seen hundreds of Nadal matches and based on the standards that one would apply to his matches, I'd be inclined to say yes.

How is this any better than what Murray did in Australia against Nadal ? He should have won at least one set, yet ended up getting ousted in straights. On a more positive note, he's still a developing youngster with plenty of talent and promise, so perhaps tonight's match will serve as inspiration, but moral victories don't exist in tennis and they certainly don't when you lose a match in straights.
I'am truly sorry you had to endure such PAIN.:sad::sad:

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 03:07 AM
I don't see your logic. He gave Nadal a very tough match and beat Djokovic, yet he's nowhere near the top 3?

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't see the logic.
Andy lost to Nadal in straights on Rafa's worst surface, despite playing one of the his best matches. Djokovic played way below his best and I said that he's nowhere near when if they play what they can. And IMO, he wouldn't beat even an average Federer.

DDrago2
07-27-2008, 03:08 AM
Near the end of the match Murray just started swinging for the fences, a tactic which from time to time would generate the desired result, but at the end it became painfully obvious that he was resigned to defeat.

There was never a point in the match during which Murray was in the driver's seat, the match was played on Nadal's terms, if you're so obstinate that you're unwilling to concede this fact, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Paul Henri Mathieu had Nadal on the canvas a few years ago in Paris according to the logic being applied here.

Nadal has been made to appear vulnerable by many players, but few can boast of actually having blasted him off the court -- Murray can't even brag of having taken a set after playing the most aggressive match of his life.

When I tell you, Nadal couldn't up his game in this match. Muzza missed little. They will have more big battles on HC and on the fastest Muzza looks like a possible winner

eddie_hyden
07-27-2008, 03:08 AM
i'm ecstatic..

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:09 AM
In all fairness, Djokovic really stunk up the joint.

And Murray stunk up the joint in the matches with Djokovic last year. Should we disregard them, since he didn't play well? Or do we only take such things into consideration because Djokovic was on the receiving end of the loss? You can't have it both ways.

By the way, Djokovic wasn't bad yesterday. He played as well as he was allowed to play. It happens. On another day, the roles will be reversed again.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:11 AM
Your simile could use some work. A rabies shot would do nothing at all to help an ailing puppy, and in fact an ailing puppy should not have any inoculations. Rabies shots are preventative, not curative.

:hatoff:
I was forced to revise this post because the original one would have been inappropriate and thus resulted in another infraction, hence the joke being completely destroyed, what I had wanted to suggest was that ClayDeath is a miserably sick hound that should be put to sleep, but the exact wording would have been regarded as too contentious, therefore I carelessly revised and clicked send in a rushed effort to provide a rebuttal.

It's nice to know that despite most people on this board completely ignoring any rules of syntax or grammar that you've chosen to single me out for the simple fact that I've demanded that you detach yourself from my testicles for strictly health reasons, back off already.

Stop nagging me.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:11 AM
Andy lost to Nadal in straights on Rafa's worst surface, despite playing one of the his best matches. Djokovic played way below his best and I said that he's nowhere near when if they play what they can. And IMO, he wouldn't beat even an average Federer.

I'll make the same point to you as I did to Prima Donna.

So you're saying Djokovic didn't play well. In that case, Murray played terribly last year against Nole. Should we discount those losses since Murray was off form?

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:16 AM
You don't have to win a set to have a competitive match. Both sets were and Nadal edged them. You're clearly too stubborn to admit when you're wrong. So much so that you still don't think Murray can generate pace. It's quite sad, actually.

Listen, in my opinion -- the match was never close, Murray certainly competed well at times throughout the match, but against Nadal so much more is required to win, he just never came close to winning.

Several Federer and Nadal matches have been "competitive" but Fed never came close to winning those matches, same goes for other players with big shots on tour.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:18 AM
Listen, in my opinion -- the match was never close, Murray certainly competed well at times throughout the match, but against Nadal so much more is required to win, he just never came close to winning.

Several Federer and Nadal matches have been "competitive" but Fed never came close to winning those matches, same goes for other players with big shots on tour.

Agree to disagree. I'd rather you just concede this point instead of engaging in literary gymnastics. Can Murray generate his own pace or can't he? Simple question.

FairWeatherFan
07-27-2008, 03:19 AM
Well done to Nadal, but the courts at Toronto seem much slower than those at the US Open for some reason.

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 03:20 AM
I'll make the same point to you as I did to Prima Donna.

So you're saying Djokovic didn't play well. In that case, Murray played terribly last year against Nole. Should we discount those losses since Murray was off form?

It doesn't matter if he played terribly in these matches last year, my point is that IMO if Djokovic plays his best (which he haven't done since this year's AO IMO) he would beat Murray, and so would Federer and Nadal.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:20 AM
Agree to disagree. I'd rather you just concede this point instead of engaging in literary gymnastics. Can Murray generate his own pace or can't he? Simple question.
Surely, but the question is can he do it consistently and rely on this strategy during the decisive moments of a match -- a question which remains to be answered.

It's not about talent; it's about consistency.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:22 AM
It doesn't matter if he played terribly in these matches last year, my point is that IMO if Djokovic plays his best (which he haven't done since this year's AO IMO) he would beat Murray, and so would Federer and Nadal.

Fair enough. But don't hit out with crap about how poorly Djokovic played yesterday. He played as well as he was allowed to play. If he went for more on his shots because he couldn't hit through Murray, that's a consequence of Murray's defence.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:23 AM
Surely, but the question is can he do it consistently and rely on this strategy during the decisive moments of a match -- a question which remains to be answered.

It's not about talent; it's about consistency.

I think he can. I just don't think he chooses to, even though it's obvious that he plays well whenever he is aggressive.

Damn
07-27-2008, 03:26 AM
I'll only say that winning this kind of really tough matches (and be capable of doing it in straight sets) is what differences a real champion of the other players. Great for Nadal, this is an incredible boost of confidence for the next important weeks. Murray playing like this could be a real threat for almost anyone on tour, but against Nadal it just wasn't enough to take off a set.

Great fight, great match. Nadal was in his Spartan King attitude more than ever. He just don't wanna lose a set, that's all.

A machine like those cyclists, he is never tired

Go and get a friend, moron.

Nadal had 9 winners. Pathetic.

Do you know what is really pathetic? Pathetic is that your beloved hard court "God" was defeated in straight sets by a player that today has played far better than yesterday, and then here you are crying and trolling in this thread because Nadal has won the same player that beat your boy. That is really p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.

you can't outpush the ultimate pusher!

Oh my ... :bowdown: You're always talking about Nadal, the guy who has killed tennis, remember? So many resentment is going to hurt you real bad! Be careful, hater :sport:

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:27 AM
I think he can. I just don't think he chooses to, even though it's obvious that he plays well whenever he is aggressive.
Sure he can choose to consistently be aggressive, but can he manage to keep the ball inside the court during those moments ?

I mean, aggression isn't the only deciding factor, if it were then Tursunov would be on track to break Margaret Court's record for Grand Slams.

One must accept both the good and the bad that comes with an increased level of aggression.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:30 AM
Sure he can choose to consistently be aggressive, but can he manage to keep the ball inside the court during those moments ?

I mean, aggression isn't the only deciding factor, if it were then Tursunov would be on track to break Margaret Court's record for Grand Slams.

One must accept both the good and the bad that comes with an increased level of aggression.

Like I said in another thread, I have never seen him play badly while being aggressive. If anything he was too aggressive tonight. He went for some ridiculous low percentage shots tonight when he should have been more patient.

Damn
07-27-2008, 03:30 AM
Well done to Nadal, but the courts at Toronto seem much slower than those at the US Open for some reason.

Yeah, it's Uncle Toni, he is the man who slows down every single court where Nadal is gonna play. Red clay, green clay, blue clay, you know.

Always the same bullshit and the same crybaby excuse.

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 03:33 AM
Fair enough. But don't hit out with crap about how poorly Djokovic played yesterday. He played as well as he was allowed to play. If he went for more on his shots because he couldn't hit through Murray, that's a consequence of Murray's defence.

I don't think that this allowed to play thing is true. He beat Nadal 6-3 6-2 in Indian Wells this year and Nadal's defense is way better than Murray's.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 03:35 AM
I don't think that this allowed to play thing is true. He beat Nadal 6-3 6-2 in Indian Wells this year and Nadal's defense is way better than Murray's.
Djokovic's defense was also exceptional in that match, he was clicking from all cylinders, not only in terms of his offensive abilities.

10nisfan
07-27-2008, 03:36 AM
I think Clydey-Prima Donna is the best rivalry of all. They constantly attack, but neither gives up any ground. :worship:

indeed :yeah: ...

btw, that guy in your avi often makes me laugh in an annoying way...:lol:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:37 AM
I don't think that this allowed to play thing is true. He beat Nadal 6-3 6-2 in Indian Wells this year and Nadal's defense is way better than Murray's.

Nadal has the best defence in the world, but I think Murray is a close second. He couldn't play the way he often does and get to 8th in the world if he didn't have a world class defence.

ChinoRios4Ever
07-27-2008, 03:38 AM
Never in doubt.

10nisfan
07-27-2008, 03:39 AM
I'am truly sorry you had to endure such PAIN.:sad::sad:

:bigclap::worship:

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 03:42 AM
Nadal has the best defence in the world, but I think Murray is a close second. He couldn't play the way he often does and get to 8th in the world if he didn't have a world class defence.

I agree that Murray's defense is one of the best, but I don't know any player whose defense ability is close to Nadal's. Many times it's necessary to hit 3 or 4 shots down the line that would be winners against any other player just to get a point of Nadal.

10nisfan
07-27-2008, 03:42 AM
Yeah, it's Uncle Toni, he is the man who slows down every single court where Nadal is gonna play. Red clay, green clay, blue clay, you know.

Always the same bullshit and the same crybaby excuse.

guess Uncle Toni Petitioned them to Make These Clay Courts just in All Colors...:lol:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 03:47 AM
I agree that Murray's defense is one of the best, but I don't know any player whose defense ability is close to Nadal's. Many times it's necessary to hit 3 or 4 shots down the line that would be winners against any other player just to get a point of Nadal.

No doubt, Nadal's defence is just ridiculous. It won him a lot of points tonight. Murray would hit two crazy flat shots that Nadal would get back and then Murray would miss the third shot. Don't know how he does it.

10nisfan
07-27-2008, 03:47 AM
Anyway, CONGRATS to This Moonballer Man-Machine called Nadull!...:bigclap::bowdown::banana:

Now beat Kiefer again tomorrow so You'll have a Title on all Colors of Clay Court this year!.. :rocker:

jcempire
07-27-2008, 03:57 AM
Congrat to Nadal

jcempire
07-27-2008, 03:58 AM
Anyway, CONGRATS to This Moonballer Man-Machine called Nadull!...:bigclap::bowdown::banana:

Now beat Kiefer again tomorrow so You'll have a Title on all Colors of Clay Court this year!.. :rocker:

Do you mean all colors of court

10nisfan
07-27-2008, 04:13 AM
Do you mean all colors of court

...No, it's just that The Rafa-Haters says that Rafa is Winning coz it's All Clay Courts, Red Clay ( French), Green Clay (Wimbledon), Blue Clay (Toronto)...

MIMIC
07-27-2008, 04:15 AM
Do you know what is really pathetic? Pathetic is that your beloved hard court "God" was defeated in straight sets by a player that today has played far better than yesterday, and then here you are crying and trolling in this thread because Nadal has won the same player that beat your boy. That is really p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.

Well, if all that makes you feel better after my comment about Nadal's pitiful number of winners, then whatever.

RogandyFan
07-27-2008, 04:17 AM
I thought Andy played the best tennis i've seen him play(i thought he played better than in his match against Nadal in AO 2007 and certainly much better than in his yesterday's match against the Djoker),especially in the first set.......but it wasn't enough to even take a set to Nadal,let alone beat him.

Nadal is just a MACHINE.

Different Nadal man. this Nadal has a much better serve and is more aggressive. I felt Andy got a little impatient in the second set and mistimed his shots too much. But the only way to learn the timing is to go for it. It is still better than pushing it.

moon language
07-27-2008, 04:39 AM
Well, if all that makes you feel better after my comment about Nadal's pitiful number of winners, then whatever.

What's with the obsession with winners? They aren't worth extra points.

prafull
07-27-2008, 04:43 AM
any video links for end of the match nadal madness yet?

JolánGagó
07-27-2008, 04:45 AM
What's with the obsession with winners? They aren't worth extra points.

Just a psychological self defense for loser. If those numbers were that important they better pay attention to the winners/UE ratio. Anyway what matters is who wins at the end, all the rest is BS.

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 04:46 AM
I disagree. Nadal wasn't able to up his game. When he wanted to in a few important games, he couldn't because Murray had the ability to stay with him. It did look as a routine win, but had Murray had a little more he would overpower Nadal tonight

Yeah, Nadal wasn't at his best tonight. He played well but he missed about 3-4 passing shots that he usually smokes by people. A couple hit the net and a couple went wide. Also, his first serve wasn't as effective as it has been.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 04:50 AM
Yeah, Nadal wasn't at his best tonight. He played well but he missed about 3-4 passing shots that he usually smokes by people. A couple hit the net and a couple went wide. Also, his first serve wasn't as effective as it has been.

That's because Murray returned well. Nadal served well and put in a high percentage. Personally, I thought Rafa played out of his skin tonight.

RafaTheBest
07-27-2008, 04:52 AM
That's because Murray returned well. Nadal served well and put in a high percentage. Personally, I thought Rafa played out of his skin tonight.

He played well, I just don't think it was his A game. Another thing is that Nadal didn't go to net as much in this one. He stayed at the baseline pretty much the whole match. I think the part he was playing out of his skin on was his return games but he was less than impressive in some of his service games and was lucky not to be broken more than once. It was a great match but I still think Rafa has another level left in him yet on HC.

Nadal_Fanatic
07-27-2008, 04:56 AM
I do admit this hard court is very high bouncing. It favors Nadal. I wouldn't say it is super slow as I think Nadal prefers a medium paced court. Toronto was much slower in 2006 and it didn't help Nadal. So I think this medium speed and high bounces helps Nadal's rhythm. I think the US Open is far less favorable to Nadal than here so I wouldn't go overboard about this win. Too bad they can't make this surface be the Australian Open instead of US Open part 2. Both the US Open and Australian Open are medium bouncing to low bouncing.

Merton
07-27-2008, 05:09 AM
Well done for Nadal, he is certainly playing better here than he was at Montreal last year. Murray had an excellent tournament here, the challenge for him is to go deep at the US Open.

fast_clay
07-27-2008, 05:17 AM
What's with the obsession with winners? They aren't worth extra points.

fuck... this statement is so true and profound that i just had a brain haemorrage...

MIMIC
07-27-2008, 05:41 AM
What's with the obsession with winners? They aren't worth extra points.

I mention it once, therefore I'm obsessed. Interesting logic.

The number of winners is just indicative of who is playing more aggresively.

If those numbers were that important they better pay attention to the winners/UE ratio.

They were nearly identical. Murry with 0.6 and Nadal with 0.625

RagingLamb
07-27-2008, 05:44 AM
great match. I was impressed with both players. But in the end Rafa played the important points better.

moon language
07-27-2008, 05:56 AM
I mention it once, therefore I'm obsessed. Interesting logic.

The number of winners is just indicative of who is playing more aggresively.




Twice actually. First time you said it was pathetic, second time you said it was pitiful. Pretty pointless thing to focus on considering Nadal's longstanding style of play and the outcome of the match. But hey whatever makes you feel better. Maybe someday winners will count for two points.

Vamos Rafa 01
07-27-2008, 06:27 AM
Great effort by Murray. I thought his tactic was spot on, this is the way to beat Rafa on a HC, and he showed that while he was definitely the dominant player throughout the first set.

As for Rafa, I loved the crosscourt BH's, as well as I loved to see he's trying to take the initiative when possible, although it was tough against such a great mover and ball striker like Murray.

MIMIC
07-27-2008, 06:39 AM
Twice actually. First time you said it was pathetic, second time you said it was pitiful. Pretty pointless thing to focus on considering Nadal's longstanding style of play and the outcome of the match. But hey whatever makes you feel better. Maybe someday winners will count for two points.

OK. Whatever. MOVING ON.

T2KN
07-27-2008, 06:43 AM
The number of winners is just indicative of who is playing more aggresively.

Rafa never hits a crazy amount of winners. Looking at the statistics of the Wimbly final I was surprised at how little winners Rafa had compared to Fed. But he keeps the amount of errors way lower than his opponents. So obviously getting the ball over the net and keeping it in is more important than hitting winners left and right. It has always been a big part of Rafa's game to bring the ball back a zillion times until the opponent wacks it out or against the net or something. That isn't going to change bc he's playing on HC now, though I agree it should.

MIMIC
07-27-2008, 06:47 AM
So obviously getting the ball over the net and keeping it in is more important than hitting winners left and right.

Yes, I agree that that's what it all comes down to.

oranges
07-27-2008, 06:58 AM
So obviously getting the ball over the net and keeping it in is more important than hitting winners left and right.

Not if you want to attract people to watch tennis. All respect to all great defensive players, but with only them around, I wouldn't bother watching a three hour match with 20 winners overall on both sides.

Allez
07-27-2008, 07:43 AM
Expected result. Nadal will always own Murray.

Sebby
07-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Murray is not the only one in that case.

Allez
07-27-2008, 07:52 AM
Who else do you have in mind...let me guess...Donald Young ?

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 08:01 AM
What's with the obsession with winners? They aren't worth extra points.

It's a new rule, didn't you hear? Points are only awarded for winners. Your opponent can pepper 10 shots in a row into the net and you gain nothing from it, because you are clearly worthless for having hit a shot that they managed to get a racquet on :D

Mashachosen1
07-27-2008, 08:05 AM
:banana:

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 08:07 AM
Not if you want to attract [my whining ass] to watch tennis. All respect to all great defensive players, but with only them around, I wouldn't bother watching a three hour match with 20 winners overall on both sides.

Fixed it for you.

Also, do you not understand that without more aggressive players, there would be no "great" defensive players? Hence, the idea of the tour suddenly being infiltrated with an influx of defensive players, and only defensive players, is completely asinine?

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 08:14 AM
Funnily enough,almost nobody called this loss a choke from Murray whereas a lot of posters there were calling Gasquet's loss against Nadal a choke.

Gasquet can only lose at tennis when he chokes. Otherwise, every set he played would end as a victorious golden set. He's just that awesome. When he doesn't choke. Which he does, always.

Seriously though, Gasquet is frequently called out for his apparent lack of testicular fortitude. Murray doesn't really have the same problem.

oranges
07-27-2008, 08:24 AM
Fixed it for you.

Also, do you not understand that without more aggressive players, there would be no "great" defensive players? Hence, the idea of the tour suddenly being infiltrated with an influx of defensive players, and only defensive players, is completely asinine?

No, it's the other way around, you don't seem to understand. I was whining about what exactly? I was just making a point why people might put emphasis on winners. You have a problem with some of us preferring that kind of game? I can easily watch two attackers play each other and have an entertaining match, but the other way around is not true. Even when one of them is essentially an aggressive player, you might end up with an unintersting match, as exemplified in the Cilic-Simon latest duel. Sue me for preferring aggressive players.

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 08:29 AM
Nadal won!

BUT:

Murray couldn't get the trainer on time before the TB.

He could'nt challenge a call when he wanted to.

Murray is a chocker and shoul've won the second set AT LEAST.

edit: almost forgot: Murray did not play his Best Tennis.

Luck Rafa. :p


:haha: :worship:


a machine like those cyclists, he is never tired


Yup, Nadal is on the gear, hope this helps you to have a better existance


Nadal had 9 winners.

Pathetic.

he had 10

pathetic u cant read properly

:haha:

T2KN
07-27-2008, 08:31 AM
For those who asked :p:

Get ur freak on. :p

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/roddickwatch/animated%20gifs/rafashake.gif

Nathaliia
07-27-2008, 08:33 AM
What a big surprise to tennis :yawn:

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 08:34 AM
I can genuinely see Nadal winning the US Open now. I was so off-base earlier when I said he hadn't improved on hard since last year. Drastically underestimated his backhand.

Your theory went down the drain a few hours laters, well done Einstein

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 08:35 AM
What a big surprise to tennis :yawn:

We had already had enough with USA beating Brazil yesterday :p

Nathaliia
07-27-2008, 08:36 AM
We had already had enough with USA beating Brazil yesterday :p
:ras:

If Kiwi beat Nadal it would be an equal surprise to that volleyball outcome.

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 08:39 AM
That was an excellent first set from Andy, he showed how good of a player he is and how many different things he can do, that backhand was awesome yesterday, everything he touched was gold. Fh was shaky in the first 5-6 games but went better as the set went through. I agree that injury scare made Andy to lose a bit of concentration and that didn´t help his chances in the tie breaker, not sure if it would have mattered in the end had he not suffered it. He hung it tough later in the 2nd, unlike Gasquet the day before, but Rafa was just too good and as a frontrunner, he´s even more of a nightmare to play against. Well done to both kids for a quite entertaining match :yeah:

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 08:42 AM
No, it's the other way around, you don't seem to understand. I was whining about what exactly? I was just making a point why people might put emphasis on winners. You have a problem with some of us preferring that kind of game?

Because this conclusion can easily be inferred by posts that I wrote. Except that it can't, because I didn't imply anything of the sort.

My issue is with knobs who believe that aggressive tennis is the end all, and that anything else is an embarrassment to the game. These views demonstrate a completely ignorance of the game of tennis, and are an embarrassment to tennis fans. Not to imply that you espouse these views - but many here do, and it's mind numbingly stupid.

I can easily watch two attackers play each other and have an entertaining match, but the other way around is not true. Even when one of them is essentially an aggressive player, you might end up with an unintersting match, as exemplified in the Cilic-Simon latest duel.

Cilic-Simon isn't a great example, as neither wasn't playing particularly well.

Sue me for preferring aggressive players.

Yes. Because I have made it clear from my posts that I have an issue with this. Except that I haven't :D

adee-gee
07-27-2008, 08:46 AM
Good effort Muzza, no complaints from here :clap2: right strategy, just not quite on Nadal's level at the moment and needed Nadal to have an off day to win, which he didn't.

Go get yourself another clay court title Rafa :yeah:

T2KN
07-27-2008, 08:51 AM
Two players' quotes on the match:

Andy:
“You know, he’s definitely doing a lot of things better than he was in the past. I think he’s moving better on hard courts, and I think he’s sort of changing the pace of the ball a little bit more and not playing so far behind the baseline like he did in the past.

Rafa:

“I played against Andy very good today because he—my opinion—he played one of his best matches against me.”

Clydey
07-27-2008, 09:13 AM
Your theory went down the drain a few hours laters, well done Einstein

Grow up.

Sheepy
07-27-2008, 09:35 AM
Muzza :hug: great tournament and it's all points to add on from last year.

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 09:48 AM
Grow up.

Get a clue

Stefanos13
07-27-2008, 09:52 AM
Great match. I was surprised to see Nadal looking so agitated after the time warning. He was visibly unhappy with the umpire's decision – or rather, timing of the decision (at break point). The call made Nadal more determined to close the match showing some over the top head-swinging celebration when he got the Advantage and match point.

Did Nadal shake hands with the umpire at the end of the match?

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Gasquet can only lose at tennis when he chokes. Otherwise, every set he played would end as a victorious golden set. He's just that awesome. When he doesn't choke. Which he does, always.


Wisest lady in the board this Becca :worship:

oranges
07-27-2008, 10:01 AM
Because this conclusion can easily be inferred by posts that I wrote. Except that it can't, because I didn't imply anything of the sort.

You have my head spinning with all the inverse arguments. You quote my post, insert a whining something, even though I clearly distanced myself from bashing defensive players, and you end up misinterpreted.

My issue is with knobs who believe that aggressive tennis is the end all, and that anything else is an embarrassment to the game. These views demonstrate a completely ignorance of the game of tennis, and are an embarrassment to tennis fans. Not to imply that you espouse these views - but many here do, and it's mind numbingly stupid.

But your response to my post was clearly, not implicitly, taking me as one of those.

Cilic-Simon isn't a great example, as neither wasn't playing particularly well.

The point was that for the match to be interesting for me it depended on Cilic not Simon and the same is in my view true of any such matchup. To make my position perfectly clear for future reference, I don't think predominately defensive players are an embarrassment to tennis or any less deserving of whatever they win, but that does not change the fact that I'll take an aggressive play over it any time. Quite simple really and not in contradiction with what I wrote in the short post you found so offensive.


Yes. Because I have made it clear from my posts that I have an issue with this. Except that I haven't :D

I'd say calling someone a whining ass tells a different story :shrug:

Deivid23
07-27-2008, 10:03 AM
My issue is with knobs who believe that aggressive tennis is the end all, and that anything else is an embarrassment to the game. These views demonstrate a completely ignorance of the game of tennis, and are an embarrassment to tennis fans. Not to imply that you espouse these views - but many here do, and it's mind numbingly stupid.


Here Here

nkhera1
07-27-2008, 10:05 AM
Murray played a good match. That backhand was lethal today and he was clobbering Nadal's forehands. That has to be a part of the gameplan in order to beat Nadal. Nadal was smart to change strategy and start attacking the forehand because it was a bit looser. Nadal's backhand has become much better on hardcourts though he has to flatten out the forehand a bit more if he wants to have even more success. He couldn't put away some balls against Murray but credit can also be given to Murray. I actually think on hard courts Nadal's backhand is more of a weapon if he plays like this. It should be interesting to see waht they do on the faster surfaces. I also think Murray deserves credit for not folding when going down a break in the 2nd or when losing the first set. If he plays like this he can beat most people and enter the top 5. Nadal's defense was amazing and it won him the match but I don't know if he can play this level of defense on even faster courts.

DhammaTiger
07-27-2008, 10:07 AM
I was too nervous to stay up for the match. So I went to sleep. Why do I get so worried about Rafa? Anyway, I woke up and checked the score, it made my day.
Rafa is the best. Vamos Rafa!!!!! :dance: :banana: :woohoo: :yippee:

groundstroke
07-27-2008, 10:30 AM
Easy for Nadal.

Stefanos13
07-27-2008, 10:34 AM
Easy for Nadal.

not quite, but happy he won

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 10:51 AM
I don't see your logic. He gave Nadal a very tough match and beat Djokovic, yet he's nowhere near the top 3?

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't see the logic.

It is a way to diminish Nadal achievements, nothing to do against your boy. BTW, I really think that Murray is now competing for the 3rd best player in the world spot. This guy has got game.

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 10:57 AM
Near the end of the match Murray just started swinging for the fences, a tactic which from time to time would generate the desired result, but at the end it became painfully obvious that he was resigned to defeat.

There was never a point in the match during which Murray was in the driver's seat, the match was played on Nadal's terms, if you're so obstinate that you're unwilling to concede this fact, then we really have nothing to discuss.

Paul Henri Mathieu had Nadal on the canvas a few years ago in Paris according to the logic being applied here.

Nadal has been made to appear vulnerable by many players, but few can boast of actually having blasted him off the court -- Murray can't even brag of having taken a set after playing the most aggressive match of his life.

Absolutely bullshit. Only Federer can play better than this against Nadal...if his confidence hasn't gone by now :devil:
You are belittling Murray's game because that would put Nadal too high for your liking.

Get used to it. That's almost the best the rest can play against Nadal.

richie21
07-27-2008, 11:04 AM
Gasquet can only lose at tennis when he chokes. Otherwise, every set he played would end as a victorious golden set. He's just that awesome. When he doesn't choke. Which he does, always.

Seriously though, Gasquet is frequently called out for his apparent lack of testicular fortitude. Murray doesn't really have the same problem.

Yeah ,like it was proved in the deciding match for the last TMC spot last year.....:rolleyes:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 11:17 AM
Yeah ,like it was proved in the deciding match for the last TMC spot last year.....:rolleyes:

Gasquet just played better and deserved to win that match. One of the few times I've seen him hold it together.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 11:19 AM
It is a way to diminish Nadal achievements, nothing to do against your boy. BTW, I really think that Murray is now competing for the 3rd best player in the world spot. This guy has got game.

Hopefully he can make the big 3 into the big 4 soon, if he remains consistent. Will be interesting to see how he does at Cinci. He has a good draw (apart from Gasquet early) and has a real shot at the final.

richie21
07-27-2008, 11:28 AM
Gasquet just played better and deserved to win that match. One of the few times I've seen him hold it together.

More than saying he played better ,i'd say he was mentally tougher than Andy that day.
It was not a great match by any means,not even close to their last match in Wimbledon.

Clydey
07-27-2008, 11:31 AM
More than saying he played better ,i'd say he was mentally tougher than Andy that day.
It was not a great match by any means,not even close to their last match in Wimbledon.

I suppose you could make that argument. I simply think he played better and served well. It wasn't much of a mental battle, though Gasquet recovered well after being bagelled. I certainly think Murray is much stronger mentally, in general. That's all that Gasquet is missing. Maybe that and better conditioning.

Bilbo
07-27-2008, 11:33 AM
federer would have lost to this murray like djokovid did but rafa is just too good these days

richie21
07-27-2008, 11:45 AM
I suppose you could make that argument. I simply think he played better and served well. It wasn't much of a mental battle, though Gasquet recovered well after being bagelled. I certainly think Murray is much stronger mentally, in general. That's all that Gasquet is missing. Maybe that and better conditioning.


I think the 2 things are connected,much more than we think.
The guys who have the best conditionning are generally the strongest players mentally as well(Hewitt,Nadal).
The day Gasquet will get much fitter will be the day he'll get stronger mentally.

I'm a big Andy fan but i don't see how we can say he is much stronger mentally than Gasquet.
If we are only going by the results,Gasquet has showed to be mentally tougher than Murray so far(a GS 1/2 final,a place in TMC,2 MS finals and leads the H2Hs against Murray)

Xenosys
07-27-2008, 11:45 AM
Overall, Murray played as best as he probably could right up until 6-5 in the first set. He was executing his game plan really nicely and it was the most aggressive I've seen him play under any circumstances... a vast improvement on his Wimbledon drubbing. Unfortunaetly at 6-5, he lost concentration after complaining to the umpire about his refusal to call for a trainer there and then as Nadal was serving to stay in the set. That momentary lapse sealed his fate in the breaker, and Nadal upped his game at the right time to pull out the first set. All credit to him.

Murray made this as competitive as he could be, and Nadal executed his own game plan superbly by peppering the weaker Murray fore-hand which mis-fired on more than a few occasions in the second set. On the night, Nadal was just a touch more consistent with his groundstrokes and that was the difference between them. Murray's backhand though is something to behold on a hard-court when he hits through the ball hard and flat, pound for pound one of the best shots in the game.

In conclusion, some high quality points and throughout the two sets, probably the most competitive match of the tournament, with both players giving it their all right up until the last point was played.

I think Nadal should win the final quite comfortably if he plays anything like he did last night, plus he's got first-hand experience of playing Kiefer only a few weeks ago at Wimbledon, and winning that match with some aplomb to boot.

:)

Halba
07-27-2008, 11:59 AM
nice play from Murray. i wish he could perform good at US OPEN to get his ranking up into top 4. he has the attacking skills, variety, and tremendous defensive capabilities(hands and feel which can't be taught or learnt overnight)


This close match proves it.

Djokovic seems to have peaked and his bandwagon is clearly on the downhill(can be beaten by anybody on their day, mentally looking foosballs and confused, lacking energy and heart, and forehand is misfiring), but Murray bandwagon still has legs after a good showing in Wimbledon, and a better one here. Federer bandwagon looks like dying a slow long term death. Nadal's star is rising fast, every day he improves.

The Pro
07-27-2008, 12:12 PM
For those who asked :p:

I thought he'd lost his rag from what people were saying, but this seems more like loony-bin celebration. :confused:

Clydey
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM
I think the 2 things are connected,much more than we think.
The guys who have the best conditionning are generally the strongest players mentally as well(Hewitt,Nadal).
The day Gasquet will get much fitter will be the day he'll get stronger mentally.

I'm a big Andy fan but i don't see how we can say he is much stronger mentally than Gasquet.
If we are only going by the results,Gasquet has showed to be mentally tougher than Murray so far(a GS 1/2 final,a place in TMC,2 MS finals and leads the H2Hs against Murray)

I mean in terms of how they react to adversity. When Murray goes behind, as e often does, he almost always finds a way to win unless he's playing a Nadal or Djokovic. Even against Federer, he came back from a set down. The Gasquet match goes without saying. Against Gulbis he came back. Against Eyserric. He just reacts better to adversity than Gasquet.

Maybe Gasquet's conditioning and his perceived lack of mental toughness are connected, but he's nowhere near as strong mentally as Murray. You mentioned Gasquet's results, but he's been on the main tour for years. Something like 3 years longer than Murray.

Gasuet even said after the match that he was just happy to get a set against Nadal. I think he needs to have a winning mentality. If he goes in just looking to be competitive and no more, he's going to be at a disadvantage. He's got the game to win and should believe it.

vincayou
07-27-2008, 12:43 PM
Kind of expected scoreline but good tournament for Andy anyway. He managed like Gasquet to beat in straight an opponent (Djokovic) with whom he was probably starting to have a complex of inferiority. What is priceless, given that he will face him often in the late stages of big tournaments.

I wonder if Nadal will be able to keep this level and confidence until USO. Some Djokovic/Berdych/Tsonga in good form will be needed to stop him.

Corey Feldman
07-27-2008, 01:08 PM
For those who asked :p:Ridiculous posturing and behaviour from mr humble :rolleyes:

Mansave_75
07-27-2008, 01:20 PM
Well done Rafa! Now try to win your sixth hard-court title! :)
We expect that.

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 02:01 PM
Gasquet just played better and deserved to win that match. One of the few times I've seen him hold it together.

Point taken. But that's just one example. A good example, but just one nonetheless. I still believe what I said to be true :)

I meant to quote richie here, dunno why I quoted this post. I'm slow. Regardless, this example is more or less equalled by their Wimbledon match.

Chloe le Bopper
07-27-2008, 02:10 PM
I think the 2 things are connected,much more than we think.
The guys who have the best conditionning are generally the strongest players mentally as well(Hewitt,Nadal).
The day Gasquet will get much fitter will be the day he'll get stronger mentally.

I'm a big Andy fan but i don't see how we can say he is much stronger mentally than Gasquet.
If we are only going by the results,Gasquet has showed to be mentally tougher than Murray so far(a GS 1/2 final,a place in TMC,2 MS finals and leads the H2Hs against Murray)

Or it shows that Gasquet is simply the better player, which I believe to be true. IMO, Gasquet has underachieved in comparison to Murray. If I had to bet my life on one of them winning a high stakes match, while I'd be terrified either way, I'd go with Murray (this might change if he was due to play an opponent who presents to him a poor matchup). You're more than welcome to disagree.

DDrago2
07-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Lion from Dunblane is better than Gasquet

cocrcici
07-27-2008, 02:28 PM
x2

Guga_fan
07-27-2008, 02:37 PM
It is a way to diminish Nadal achievements, nothing to do against your boy. BTW, I really think that Murray is now competing for the 3rd best player in the world spot. This guy has got game.

No, I was not trying to do that, I was just saying that even though Andy is now playing a top5 level of tennis, he is not in the level of the top3 when they play their best. Nadal beat an incredible Murray yesterday, by playing an awesome defense game, there's no way to diminish his achievements.

rocketassist
07-27-2008, 02:45 PM
Cedric Mourier's excuse for refusing the trainer- 'it isn't fair to keep Rafa waiting to serve' :retard: :haha:

prima donna
07-27-2008, 02:47 PM
Absolutely bullshit. Only Federer can play better than this against Nadal...if his confidence hasn't gone by now :devil:
You are belittling Murray's game because that would put Nadal too high for your liking.

Get used to it. That's almost the best the rest can play against Nadal.
Can we say hypersensitivity ? I'm not belittling anything, I've already predicted that Andy Murray will be winning Grand Slams in a couple of years, which doesn't necessitate that I pretend to see things that aren't really there.

Once again, at the risk of engaging in a war of attrition: Andy Murray is not the first player to enjoy relatively minimal amounts of success against Nadal by employing a more aggressive strategy, if Murray is to ever beat Nadal it won't be because of his winners alone, but due to a combination of defense, variety and assertive play from the baseline when the time calls for it.

As for the Federer reference, Roger has come up empty plenty of times after smacking winner after winner, his match against Nadal in Dubai being a perfect example -- it's just not enough against Nadal when he's dialed in.

tangerine_dream
07-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Cedric Mourier's excuse for refusing the trainer- 'it isn't fair to keep Rafa waiting to serve' :retard: :haha:
The chair umpires are onto Andy's penchant for always calling for the trainer and playing possum.

GlennMirnyi
07-27-2008, 04:49 PM
If you're talking about the careless approach in the first game of 2nd off which Nadal could lob him, yes that was a push shot.

The rest of his game as he went for big shots hardly had to do anything with "pushing". Unless you want to call 150kmh returns or (attempted) winners a push shot. Well, talking about this match tonight, that would be about as clever as GlennMirnyi categorizing Nadal as a moonballer.

Nadal is a moonballer. If you can't see that, time to call the optometrist.

The reason why its so hard to break nadal isnt because of his serve, its because of his ground game. To clarify, nadal is the best rallier on the planet, and without getting free points on your serve, its almost impossible to win a game against him. So his quality of serve doesnt really come into it.

Bullshit. Those clowns don't attack his serve. Even Gasquet was attacking his serve decently.

GlennMirnyi
07-27-2008, 04:51 PM
Lion from Dunblane is better than Gasquet

Gotta say no. At least Gasquet can win a set or two against Nadull every once in a while.

aurora2006
07-27-2008, 05:07 PM
Life kind of suck if you are not a fan of Nadal.

:yeah:

richie21
07-27-2008, 05:59 PM
I mean in terms of how they react to adversity. When Murray goes behind, as e often does, he almost always finds a way to win unless he's playing a Nadal or Djokovic. Even against Federer, he came back from a set down.


Well ,Gasquet also beat Federer coming back from a set down in 2005.
There is also his win against Roddick at Wimbledon last year,coming back from 2 sets down.