Roger Federer : Who Can Help Him [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Roger Federer : Who Can Help Him

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Clay Death
07-25-2008, 03:32 PM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008. He simply has to find a way to win the U.S. Open. He will have to change a few things. He desperatly needs a new paradigm and he must engage in this new thinking at once. A quick and fast overhaul of the mental appratus, if you will.

You will note that he actually looks like a beaten man now. His interviews suggest nothing if they dont suggest that he constantly finds himself in denial these days. Further, he continues to talk as if he really is still the best in the world. The element of presssure is keeping him down. He has to find a way to snap out of this.

here is my advice and input:

1. First and foremost, get rid of Higueras at once and enlist Killer Cahill and Sampras for the next 3 months. They do not have to be present at his matches as they are busy but they can help.

2. Hit the gym and get stronger. There has never been a better time to take his fitness higher than it is now. It wont allow him to regain a little step he has lost but at least he can go all out in his matches and it is quite intimidating for the opposition.

3. Skip the Olympics and focus on the last slam of 2008.

4. Become more of an attacking player than he has ever been before. This is where better fitness and additional physical strength will come in handy. He has the best serve on the planet and he is the best there is at the net. Why not apply constant heat and pressure.

Having lost a little step, he cant really deal with the likes of Nadal and Djokovic off the ground. Even Simon beat him off the ground the other day. Newer approach is needed at once so the serve has to get bigger and better than it already is.

I dont mean play like Sampras but certainly start mixing it up like 40% or so. That means follow the serve to the net around 40% of the time but disaguise it well. This applies to quiker courts. Clay is lost forever so he can forget about clay.

3. New paradigm. Learn to deal with being no longer the best player in the world. It takes the pressure off instantly. He can then quietly work to try to win another slam or 2.

This means he must kill this constant obsession with being #1 instantly. It is just weighing him down now. Play without pressure and play with reckless abandon. He should know by now-- deep inside-- that he still has a fairly formidable game.

Thoughts? Comments? Smart remarks? Insults? Can you help add to this list? What would you do?

finishingmove
07-25-2008, 03:45 PM
skipping the olympics might be a good call , he's not winning em anyway , but i doubt he'll do it.

as for winning the USO , i think federer's last chance to save the year was at wimbledon; namely i think its all in the djoker's hands now.

if djokovic doesnt win the USO, it would look very stupid.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 03:48 PM
skipping the olympics might be a good call , he's not winning em anyway , but i doubt he'll do it.

as for winning the USO , i think federer's last chance to save the year was at wimbledon; namely i think its all in the djoker's hands now.

if djokovic doesnt win the USO, it would look very stupid.


it depends on the draw. If Nadal can find peak form and Fed can rebound, it will be hard to beat then both.

It was Djokovic all the way until Nadal showed the world that he can beat them all on quicker surfaces by winning at Queens and Wimby.

Nadal will have to skip the olympics to stay fresh.

Vamos Rafa 01
07-25-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't think he need help...

The guy is still the best player in the world, and I see him(with Djokovic) as the biggest favourite to win tournaments like the Olympics, US OPEN and TMC.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 04:15 PM
I don't think he need help...

The guy is still the best player in the world, and I see him(with Djokovic) as the biggest favourite to win tournaments like the Olympics, US OPEN and TMC.


right. just as he was the heavy favorite to tear everybody up in Toronto.

that is exactly one of the problems: he has placed too much pressure on himself. and then the public expectations.

Stensland
07-25-2008, 04:17 PM
i think his main problem in the coming months will be the fact that his aura is pretty much gone. whenever he stepped on court in the past there was this special something that set him apart from the rest; it felt like he was already up a break as they walked on court together. his opponents feared him and apart from a few players like nadal and djokovic, everyone was basically shitting their pants.

now that has changed. dramatically. players know by now that he's more than vulnerable if you hang in there and make him uncomfortable. still he's able to beat most of them easily, that's true, but the roger-effect is gone. he's human again which is something hardly any coach can repair.

and actually, we may call that the nole-effect.

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 04:18 PM
right. just as he was the heavy favorite to tear everybody up in Toronto.

that is exactly one of the problems: he has placed too much pressure on himself. and then the public expectations.

I'm afraid you are perfectly right here CD.
More than anything else I think that Roger needs a mental coach/sports psychologist to get him out of the pit he's been falling into.
Peter Carter (RIP :sad:) is sorely been missed, more now than ever before.

lurker
07-25-2008, 04:20 PM
Federer himself once said a lot of tennis is mental. That is, the battle is won or lost before you step on the court sometimes. The top players all have strengths enough to beat anyone on any given day. The realy close matchups comes down to keeping it together during the match.

Federer's mental focus is fed by his success. More success = more confidence = better mental strength. I think his all out effort to win Roland Garros the last two years, and his constant beat downs by Nadal and occasionally a few others that he doesn't probably respect too much on any surface other than clay, has goten him down. The Wimbledon loss is the straw that broke the camel's back.

To come back, Federer needs to fire Higueras. I agree. He cannot take Higueras' mentality that you win tennis by forcing the opponent's errors. That is not his strength. Then he needs to enlist a sports psychologist to help with the mental thing. And yes, he needs to get more fit. He has a gut. And as he hits the crossroads in his tennis career, he needs to make decision to let go of Roland Garros and concentrate on getting the grand slam title record, or focus on Roland Garros and forget any records. He has to let go of his stubbornness and unwillingness to change his game. The game is changing and as he gets older and slower, if he doesn't make an adjustment, he may never reach Pete's slam record.

finishingmove
07-25-2008, 04:25 PM
lurker, i think its safe to say that his only hope of winning roland garros is if nadal gets injured...

if thats the only thing preventing him from retiring , he might as well go now...

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 04:26 PM
I'm afraid you are perfectly right here CD.
More than anything else I think that Roger needs a mental coach/sports psychologist to get him out of the pit he's been falling into.
Peter Carter (RIP :sad:) is sorely been missed, more now than ever before.

the best thing that can happen for him now is drop to around #2 or even #3.

he can then let go of all pressures and play freely.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 04:27 PM
Federer himself once said a lot of tennis is mental. That is, the battle is won or lost before you step on the court sometimes. The top players all have strengths enough to beat anyone on any given day. The realy close matchups comes down to keeping it together during the match.

Federer's mental focus is fed by his success. More success = more confidence = better mental strength. I think his all out effort to win Roland Garros the last two years, and his constant beat downs by Nadal and occasionally a few others that he doesn't probably respect too much on any surface other than clay, has goten him down. The Wimbledon loss is the straw that broke the camel's back.

To come back, Federer needs to fire Higueras. I agree. He cannot take Higueras' mentality that you win tennis by forcing the opponent's errors. That is not his strength. Then he needs to enlist a sports psychologist to help with the mental thing. And yes, he needs to get more fit. He has a gut. And as he hits the crossroads in his tennis career, he needs to make decision to let go of Roland Garros and concentrate on getting the grand slam title record, or focus on Roland Garros and forget any records. He has to let go of his stubbornness and unwillingness to change his game. The game is changing and as he gets older and slower, if he doesn't make an adjustment, he may never reach Pete's slam record.

great post.

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 04:30 PM
the best thing that can happen for him now is drop to around #2 or even #3.

he can then let go of all pressures and play freely.

It's merely a matter of a few weeks till he will inevitably lose his #1 spot. I hope you are right and that that indeed will take off some pressure. I doubt it though, he's quite a stubborn character and he might even put himself under MORE pressure because he'll surely try to do everything to get it back.
We will have to wait and see what happens... as long as he doesn't pull a Henin/Borg, I'm fine with it.

r2473
07-25-2008, 04:31 PM
Federer's bad year in summary:

Australian Open - Semis
French Open - Finalist
Wimbledon - Finalist

Indian Wells - Semis
Miami - Quarters
Monte Carlo - Finalist
Rome - Quarters
Hamburg - Finalist
Canada - R32

Ranking at the start of the year: 1
Current Ranking: 1

Fact is, this is a bad year by Federer's impossible standards.

But, you can also think about it this way: Federer is playing right now in about 3rd gear while Nadal is "red lining" his playing engine.

It will be interesting to see however if Nadal can at least defend (or add to) his Semis points in Canada this week. He could add 125 if he is a Finalist or 275 if he wins it. Fed is going to drop from 6600 to 6255. Rafa could reach 6105 points if he wins. Then of course in Cincy, Rafa only has R32 points (5) to defend, but Fed has Champion (500) points to defend.

Rafa's got his big chance right now. Let's see if he can deliver. I for one hope he does.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 04:41 PM
It's merely a matter of a few weeks till he will inevitably lose his #1 spot. I hope you are right and that that indeed will take off some pressure. I doubt it though, he's quite a stubborn character and he might even put himself under MORE pressure because he'll surely try to do everything to get it back.
We will have to wait and see what happens... as long as he doesn't pull a Henin/Borg, I'm fine with it.

#1 ranking, at this point in time, is nothing but a false sense of security for him and a massive source of pressure.

Stefanos13
07-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Federer said once that he's playing against history. Breaking every record in the book was his real and true aim. The following would have kept his goal on-track towards 'history':

– a 6th consecutive Wimbledon title: it didn't happen
– winning at least once at Roland Garros: it didn't happen
– surpassing (comprehensively) Sampras' record of 14 slams: after this year it looks difficult

I don't think there's anybody out there who can hep him (to tell him not to feel like this). The 'situation' is highly personal reflecting a goal that HE wanted and aimed for, all his life. To 'recover' he needs to change his own goalposts; but for a man who wants to be the greatest of the greatest (and maybe felt he could do it) and maybe came so close to achieving it (but not quite getting there) must be uber tough and demoralising...

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 04:46 PM
Federer's bad year in summary:

Australian Open - Semis
French Open - Finalist
Wimbledon - Finalist

Indian Wells - Semis
Miami - Quarters
Monte Carlo - Finalist
Rome - Quarters
Hamburg - Finalist
Canada - R32

Ranking at the start of the year: 1
Current Ranking: 1

Fact is, this is a bad year by Federer's impossible standards.

But, you can also think about it this way: Federer is playing right now in about 3rd gear while Nadal is "red lining" his playing engine.

It will be interesting to see however if Nadal can at least defend (or add to) his Semis points in Canada this week. He could add 125 if he is a Finalist or 275 if he wins it. Fed is going to drop from 6600 to 6255. Rafa could reach 6105 points if he wins. Then of course in Cincy, Rafa only has R32 points (5) to defend, but Fed has Champion (500) points to defend.

Rafa's got his big chance right now. Let's see if he can deliver. I for one hope he does.


Clay Monster has "delivered" enough already this year. what sport are you watching?

he doesnt put himself under ridiculous pressure and hence his 5 slams by just 1 months past his 22nd birthday. #1 will happen soon enough for him.

peterparker
07-25-2008, 04:46 PM
Federer's bad year in summary:

Australian Open - Semis
French Open - Finalist
Wimbledon - Finalist

Indian Wells - Semis
Miami - Quarters
Monte Carlo - Finalist
Rome - Quarters
Hamburg - Finalist
Canada - R32

Ranking at the start of the year: 1
Current Ranking: 1

Fact is, this is a bad year by Federer's impossible standards.

But, you can also think about it this way: Federer is playing right now in about 3rd gear while Nadal is "red lining" his playing engine.

It will be interesting to see however if Nadal can at least defend (or add to) his Semis points in Canada this week. He could add 125 if he is a Finalist or 275 if he wins it. Fed is going to drop from 6600 to 6255. Rafa could reach 6105 points if he wins. Then of course in Cincy, Rafa only has R32 points (5) to defend, but Fed has Champion (500) points to defend.

Rafa's got his big chance right now. Let's see if he can deliver. I for one hope he does.


Rafa was red lining last year. This year everything is easier because he is a better player and approaching his physical peak. Its very unlikely that you will see him crumbling on the u.s. open courts like he did last year vs. ferrer.

Fed. has been in first gear since that clay tournament where he played djokovic and nalbandian, it's just that he is older and a couple of players are near his level now on other surfaces than clay.

Stefanos13
07-25-2008, 04:48 PM
Federer said once that he's playing against history. Breaking every record in the book was his real and true aim. The following would have kept his goal on-track towards 'history':

– a 6th consecutive Wimbledon title: it didn't happen
– winning at least once at Roland Garros: it didn't happen
– surpassing (comprehensively) Sampras' record of 14 slams: after this year it looks difficult

I don't think there's anybody out there who can hep him (to tell him not to feel like this). The 'situation' is highly personal reflecting a goal that HE wanted and aimed for, all his life. To 'recover' he needs to change his own goalposts; but for a man who wants to be the greatest of the greatest (and maybe felt he could do it) and maybe came so close to achieving it (but not quite getting there) must be uber tough and demoralising...

kafemotor
07-25-2008, 04:57 PM
Last time i watched fed at wimbly, he still had his amazing positioning, movement, weaponry, and tactic. nearly nothing to do to push him or go after him like what nadal had to djokovic and others. maybe he lost his aura, but if any to cure him is fix his mentality and dont know if anybody can do it for him...

r2473
07-25-2008, 04:59 PM
Clay Monster has "delivered" enough already this year. what sport are you watching?

he doesnt put himself under ridiculous pressure and hence his 5 slams by just 1 months past his 22nd birthday. #1 will happen soon enough for him.

Take it easy. I want to see Rafa do well.

Rafa has the following to defend:

Canada - Semis
Cincy - R32
US Open - R16
Madrid - Quarters
Paris - Finalist
Masters Cup - Semis

So though he has delivered this year, he has to keep going strong during the HC season (his weakest) if he wants to attain the #1 ranking AND keep it for any length of time.

peterparker
07-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Federer said once that he's playing against history. Breaking every record in the book was his real and true aim. The following would have kept his goal on-track towards 'history':

– a 6th consecutive Wimbledon title: it didn't happen
– winning at least once at Roland Garros: it didn't happen
– surpassing (comprehensively) Sampras' record of 14 slams: after this year it looks difficult

I don't think there's anybody out there who can hep him (to tell him not to feel like this). The 'situation' is highly personal reflecting a goal that HE wanted and aimed for, all his life. To 'recover' he needs to change his own goalposts; but for a man who wants to be the greatest of the greatest (and maybe felt he could do it) and maybe came so close to achieving it (but not quite getting there) must be uber tough and demoralising...

Difficult time for him. Young sampras had to deal with two pretty good talents ahead of him (edberg/becker). Fed and sampras benefitted imo from the sampras (and agassi) drubbing of kafelnikov who was a pretty good talent. Fed. has so far not been able to cow either Nadal or djokovic.

He has used his time well to build a little lead over sampras, so 14is still reachable imo.

r2473
07-25-2008, 05:04 PM
Rafa was red lining last year. This year everything is easier because he is a better player and approaching his physical peak. Its very unlikely that you will see him crumbling on the u.s. open courts like he did last year vs. ferrer.

Fed. has been in first gear since that clay tournament where he played djokovic and nalbandian, it's just that he is older and a couple of players are near his level now on other surfaces than clay.

I suspect you might be right, but it is hard to conclude anything until Rafa has at least finished a summer hardcourt tournament. It is not inconceivable that Fed could defend his HC points and Rafa could get beat early by the many tough HC players on tour. I mean, he could draw a "hot" Safin or something in the opening round of the US Open and be in the same boat Djokovic was in at Wimby. Who knows.

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Federer himself once said a lot of tennis is mental. That is, the battle is won or lost before you step on the court sometimes. The top players all have strengths enough to beat anyone on any given day. The realy close matchups comes down to keeping it together during the match.

Federer's mental focus is fed by his success. More success = more confidence = better mental strength. I think his all out effort to win Roland Garros the last two years, and his constant beat downs by Nadal and occasionally a few others that he doesn't probably respect too much on any surface other than clay, has goten him down. The Wimbledon loss is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Then he needs to enlist a sports psychologist to help with the mental thing. And yes, he needs to get more fit. He has a gut. And as he hits the crossroads in his tennis career, he needs to make decision to let go of Roland Garros and concentrate on getting the grand slam title record, or focus on Roland Garros and forget any records. He has to let go of his stubbornness and unwillingness to change his game. The game is changing and as he gets older and slower, if he doesn't make an adjustment, he may never reach Pete's slam record.

..... You Hit Most of the Important Issues in this Post...:yeah:

..... So, basically, Fedex is the only One Who Can Help Himself. By Most Tennis Players standards, He's still having a Good Year, BUT By Fedex standard, he's having his First Bad Year Since 2003?...

I think He Needs to Work on the Mental aspect first and foremost... take a break, figure out what's the root of his issues and work on it, then he can work on the physical conditioning...

He should try to do what Nadal often say, "just take it one match at a time"... and history will be made instead of concentrating on making it...

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 06:02 PM
Take it easy. I want to see Rafa do well.

Rafa has the following to defend:

Canada - Semis
Cincy - R32
US Open - R16
Madrid - Quarters
Paris - Finalist
Masters Cup - Semis

So though he has delivered this year, he has to keep going strong during the HC season (his weakest) if he wants to attain the #1 ranking AND keep it for any length of time.

all the great ones want to be #1 but the Clay Monster simply refuses to be bothered with the aggravation of getting it. if he just plays well and stays healthy, it will happen. that is is his mindset.

MacTheKnife
07-25-2008, 08:45 PM
I pretty much agree with CDs assessment. Only Sampras has held the #1 ranking for 6 years. It always begins to happen between 4 to 6 years when the pressure and expectations begin to mount and becomes unimaginable. All the greatest players felt it when they got past 4 years, and it was a struggle after that point to hold it any longer. Sampras was the anomaly and made it 6 straight. Although even Pete lost it at a few points during the last two, but then regained it by year-end.
First thing I would do is get rid of Higueras. Thought it was a bad hire when he got him. I like the idea of Sampras since they are friends and Pete knows what it takes. What does Higueras know about lengthy stays at #1, let alone anything about an attacking game. If Pete could not do it, I would try to get Annacone. He coached Pete from 95 to 2001, and again in July 2002 right before Pete’s final slam.
He obviously needs to work on his mental approach to ALL matches. What I mean by this is I believe that he only respects two players right now, Nadal and Djok. Anyone else he seems to take for granted. Well that's now working out to well is it? He simply seems flat playing any one else, when he could be using those matches more effectively to work on his game.
Working on this mental focus I believe would help what I see as the two biggest issues hurting him right now.
1) He simply is not hitting the ball as cleanly as he used to, and 2) he desperately needs to improve his return of serve. Simply blocking the ball back is no longer effective against the younger and fearless players he now faces. (as someone said earlier, he no longer has that "Fed affect” he used to) and these guys are taking control of the points off those blocked returns. He needs to attack 2nd serves and short balls with a much greater intensity, and follow them in.
Fitness - Aerobically he appears fit but from a strength standpoint, he just needs to hit the gym big time. He simply appears to be getting soft around the middle. (no pun intended)
Not sure what he does on strength training now, but it does not show what ever it is.

Last and certainly not least, someone needs to sign him up to MTF so he can benefit from all the miraculous insight found here.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 08:50 PM
I pretty much agree with CDs assessment. Only Sampras has held the #1 ranking for 6 years. It always begins to happen between 4 to 6 years when the pressure and expectations begin to mount and becomes unimaginable. All the greatest players felt it when they got past 4 years, and it was a struggle after that point to hold it any longer. Sampras was the anomaly and made it 6 straight. Although even Pete lost it at a few points during the last two, but then regained it by year-end.
First thing I would do is get rid of Higueras. Thought it was a bad hire when he got him. I like the idea of Sampras since they are friends and Pete knows what it takes. What does Higueras know about lengthy stays at #1, let alone anything about an attacking game. If Pete could not do it, I would try to get Annacone. He coached Pete from 95 to 2001, and again in July 2002 right before Pete’s final slam.
He obviously needs to work on his mental approach to ALL matches. What I mean by this is I believe that he only respects two players right now, Nadal and Djok. Anyone else he seems to take for granted. Well that's now working out to well is it? He simply seems flat playing any one else, when he could be using those matches more effectively to work on his game.
Working on this mental focus I believe would help what I see as the two biggest issues hurting him right now.
1) He simply is not hitting the ball as cleanly as he used to, and 2) he desperately needs to improve his return of serve. Simply blocking the ball back is no longer effective against the younger and fearless players he now faces. (as someone said earlier, he no longer has that "Fed affect” he used to) and these guys are taking control of the points off those blocked returns. He needs to attack 2nd serves and short balls with a much greater intensity, and follow them in.
Fitness - Aerobically he appears fit but from a strength standpoint, he just needs to hit the gym big time. He simply appears to be getting soft around the middle. (no pun intended)
Not sure what he does on strength training now, but it does not show what ever it is.

Last and certainly not least, someone needs to sign him up to MTF so he can benefit from all the miraculous insight found here.


great post. i agree about MTF as well. he will benefit from reading the valuable stuff here.

he does need to embrace the #2 or #3 position what ever it happens to be one of these days and fully free himself from the burden and pressure.

he himself has said that he has created a monster. well its time to stap aside from that monster since it is weighing him down.

his own father has said that his son is under "enormous pressure". its time to get rid of that pressure and play freely.

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 08:51 PM
Last and certainly not least, someone needs to sign him up to MTF so he can benefit from all the miraculous insight found here.


Poor fellow, if he ever reads here... :haha:

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 08:53 PM
Not 'Who', but 'What' can help Federer. His 'ultimate thread of excuses' of course.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 08:58 PM
Not 'Who', but 'What' can help Federer. His 'ultimate thread of excuses' of course.

its time to let go of that obsession with being #1 since it is clear that he is no longer the best out there.

he has his 12 slams. he has his near total domination of the sport for the last 4 years. he has his immortality in the bag. the history books have his name on them.

anything else should be just bonus. let it go Fed and just play tennis. stop trying to hang your hat on a tiny, nominal but not real lead you have in points.

we all know better.

Vida
07-25-2008, 09:05 PM
its time to let go of that obsession with being #1 since it is clear that he is no longer the best out there.

he has his 12 slams. he has his near total domination of the sport for the last 4 years. he has his immortality in the bag. the history books have his name on them.

anything else should be just bonus. let it go Fed and just play tennis. stop trying to hang your hat on a tiny, nominal but not real lead you have in points.

we all know better.

Massive revamp is needed. He has a certain attitude out of habit now, and it doesn't seem to correspond with reality. Ironically, it is Nadal who is helping Fed to nurture such approach, with constant downplaying himself under Fed, who still seem to believe it is only down to him.

Natural pattern has clearly emerged in how he views all this, and it can be noticed in his interviews, while situation is highly dangerous. And it wouldn't seems as such, had this not been very sudden development regarding Feds results. Only six months ago, literally no one including Fed would imagine such turn of events, in which his confidence is all time low. I guess thats good as much as bad, cause something like this was inevitable and its good to have happened while there is enough time left. He can play top-flight tennis two more years at least, and still be in contention for Slams after that.

Some basic changes are needed, and one most obvious seems regarding coaching situation. Higueras relationship clearly doesn't work, cause IMO it is based on business-like foundations, so it lacks professional intimacy needed in such times. It is very unlikely he could get such an approach-related advice and direction from people he works with now. I don't believe "Fedex is the only One Who Can Help Himself".

Maybe he should sacrifice some pride of loosing some tournaments in order to try out new things, and I think he could make it. He's very versatile by nature, but it will be very difficult, cause net game was always secondary option. But, as always, confidence remains main thing though.


b.t.w. great post Mac

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Massive revamp is needed. He has a certain attitude out of habit now, and it doesn't seem to correspond with reality. Ironically, it is Nadal who is helping Fed to nurture such approach, with constant downplaying himself under Fed, who still seem to believe it is only down to him.

Natural pattern has clearly emerged in how he views all this, and it can be noticed in his interviews, while situation is highly dangerous. And it wouldn't seems as such, had this not been very sudden development regarding Feds results. Only six months ago, literally no one including Fed would imagine such turn of events, in which his confidence is all time low. I guess thats good as much as bad, cause something like this was inevitable and its good to have happened while there is enough time left. He can play top-flight tennis two more years at least, and still be in contention for Slams after that.

Some basic changes are needed, and one most obvious seems regarding coaching situation. Higueras relationship clearly doesn't work, cause IMO it is based on business-like foundations, so it lacks professional intimacy needed in such times. It is very unlikely he could get such an approach-related advice and direction from people he works with now. I don't believe "Fedex is the only One Who Can Help Himself".

Maybe he should sacrifice some pride of loosing some tournaments in order to try out new things, and I think he could make it. He's very versatile by nature, but it will be very difficult, cause net game was always secondary option. But, as always, confidence remains main thing though.


b.t.w. great post Mac


excellent posts both of you. good work.

Chrisilson
07-25-2008, 09:21 PM
Federer himself once said a lot of tennis is mental. That is, the battle is won or lost before you step on the court sometimes. The top players all have strengths enough to beat anyone on any given day. The realy close matchups comes down to keeping it together during the match.

Federer's mental focus is fed by his success. More success = more confidence = better mental strength. I think his all out effort to win Roland Garros the last two years, and his constant beat downs by Nadal and occasionally a few others that he doesn't probably respect too much on any surface other than clay, has goten him down. The Wimbledon loss is the straw that broke the camel's back.

To come back, Federer needs to fire Higueras. I agree. He cannot take Higueras' mentality that you win tennis by forcing the opponent's errors. That is not his strength. Then he needs to enlist a sports psychologist to help with the mental thing. And yes, he needs to get more fit. He has a gut. And as he hits the crossroads in his tennis career, he needs to make decision to let go of Roland Garros and concentrate on getting the grand slam title record, or focus on Roland Garros and forget any records. He has to let go of his stubbornness and unwillingness to change his game. The game is changing and as he gets older and slower, if he doesn't make an adjustment, he may never reach Pete's slam record.

Some good point here.

I agree that Fed should get rid of Higeras but I don't think a sports psychologist would be the answer to his mental problems. The problem is that he has been so successful that taking advice from a random guy with a certificate in psychology isn't going to inspire him in any way. He needs a former pro on board that he really respects, someone that can give him a bit of perspective and analyse his game. His game has become really sloppy, he needs to be re-focused and I think the best way to do this is having an ex-pro on board that he is good friends with.

Federer has masterminded so much of his success that allowing another person into his mind is probably uncomfortable and as such he doesn't let his coaches in. He is going to have to open up and start acknowledging his weaknesses and he needs the right person there to help him do this.

All speculation of course, but I reckon Higueras is another yes-man. He needs a kick up the ass from someone that understands him

zethand
07-25-2008, 09:23 PM
I can help him! Anytime Roger!!

2 additions!

1. I also think he needs a new brand girlfriend! I think that is his biggest problem. Beside the way she looks and all the comments we have made about her.. she is a bad influence. I read she is his agent or personal manager or something like that. Come on!

2. Get rid of that Gavin! He brings bad luck! Seriously! I do not know what is he doing with Federer, or who invites him and that woman he has for wife (Gwen Stefany looks like a humanoid)

That's my opinion! Roger is the best player ever... no doubt!

Collective
07-25-2008, 09:26 PM
He has to work hard. Work on his stamina, on his patience. Once the results are back he'll feel better, but he'll only get to that point with hard work.

That could help. Or maybe he should just change his backhand for a two handed one.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 09:31 PM
He has to work hard. Work on his stamina, on his patience. Once the results are back he'll feel better, but he'll only get to that point with hard work.

That could help. Or maybe he should just change his backhand for a two handed one.


i still maintain that the very first step is to bring in some consultants for the next 3 months or so. i would ask for help from Killer Cahill, Sampras, and a long time Agassi trainer Gil Reyes.

i would also embrace the idea of no longer being the very best out there.

Cahill had some advice for Roddick today. he called for Roddick to "invest in his future". and so on.

DhammaTiger
07-25-2008, 09:36 PM
Federer said once that he's playing against history. Breaking every record in the book was his real and true aim. The following would have kept his goal on-track towards 'history':

– a 6th consecutive Wimbledon title: it didn't happen
– winning at least once at Roland Garros: it didn't happen
– surpassing (comprehensively) Sampras' record of 14 slams: after this year it looks difficult

I don't think there's anybody out there who can hep him (to tell him not to feel like this). The 'situation' is highly personal reflecting a goal that HE wanted and aimed for, all his life. To 'recover' he needs to change his own goalposts; but for a man who wants to be the greatest of the greatest (and maybe felt he could do it) and maybe came so close to achieving it (but not quite getting there) must be uber tough and demoralising...

Very well said. I will add one point. Federer, should live in the moment and forget the past and the future. This is what is important for him to practise, living in the moment that is now. That way he will have no burdens of the past to reflect on and no burdens of the future to expect. This practise in Buddhism is called mindfulness.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 09:41 PM
Very well said. I will add one point. Federer, should live in the moment and forget the past and the future. This is what is important for him to practise, living in the moment that is now. That way he will have no burdens of the past to reflect on and no burdens of the future to expect. This practise in Buddhism is called mindfulness.


wonderfully said and stated.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 09:45 PM
Very well said. I will add one point. Federer, should live in the moment and forget the past and the future. This is what is important for him to practise, living in the moment that is now. That way he will have no burdens of the past to reflect on and no burdens of the future to expect. This practise in Buddhism is called mindfulness.

Very well said indeed.

Although I would say, if Federer were to adopt this approach, what would his own motivation be for continiung to play the game?

He's already stated that one of his key motivatory factors is now being able to re-write the history books by breaking records etc, so under that practice 'mindfulness', Federer could never allow himself to look forward into the future.

DhammaTiger
07-25-2008, 09:48 PM
wonderfully said and stated.

thank you. you can click on the link in my sigto learn more about it ;)

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 09:52 PM
thank you. you can click on the link in my sigto learn more about it ;)


i am quite familiar of the Buddhist philosophy. I read all about Prince Gautama once.

thanks. you are the voice of reason here at mtf. keep up the good work.

MacTheKnife
07-25-2008, 09:52 PM
He has to work hard. Work on his stamina, on his patience. Once the results are back he'll feel better, but he'll only get to that point with hard work.

That could help. Or maybe he should just change his backhand for a two handed one.

I agree with the patience angle, but I think he and Nadal are probably the two fittest guys on tour from a stamina standpoint. Both those guys can play a 4-5 hour match and neither looks tired. However, it's obvious that Nadal is far superior in physical strength. That's why I think hitting the gym and weights really hard would benefit Fed mentally. A lot of confidence comes simply from physical strength.

Also agree with the earlier post that it will help him a lot when he does drop to 2 or 3. He needs to go into some tournaments as the underdog. He has not done that in over 5 years. Let someone else carry that burden for a while and focus on his game again instead of "making history."

I heard Sampras say in an interview that it's a hell of a lot easier to climb the mountain than it is to stay on top..

Nidhogg
07-25-2008, 09:59 PM
He obviously needs to work on his mental approach to ALL matches. What I mean by this is I believe that he only respects two players right now, Nadal and Djok. Anyone else he seems to take for granted. Well that's now working out to well is it? He simply seems flat playing any one else, when he could be using those matches more effectively to work on his game.

Spot on. Take this last match for instance. Yes, Federer is in a slump. Yes, Simon is in good form. Could Federer still have blown Simon of court completely, if his mind just had been set on hitting the gas through the entire match? Yes, I think so. Instead he relaxed after taking the first set with ease, but Simon wouldn't give up, and so Federer couldn't quite regroup.
He's still one heck of a player, but invulnerable? No, not right now, and that's what he has to realise.

DhammaTiger
07-25-2008, 10:00 PM
Very well said indeed.

Although I would say, if Federer were to adopt this approach, what would his own motivation be for continiung to play the game?

He's already stated that one of his key motivatory factors is now being able to re-write the history books by breaking records etc, so under that practice 'mindfulness', Federer could never allow himself to look forward into the future.

Good point. Why we say don't look in the future, means don't be obsessed by it. When we live in the moment, we are actually building the future. When I started playing tennis, I had such a hard time concentrating because, I was always thinking of the shot I missed and the next shot etc. then my sister gave me a book called, "The inner game of tennis"(http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance/dp/0679778314). A short wonderful book written in the seventies. There are no instructions how to play. It's based on the concept of mindfulness. I forgot the name of the author, an American, he went on to write the same formula on golf etc. When we live in the moment of course we have the sense of the future and the past but we don't dwell on it. For example, you are in the middle of playing a match. You have a game plan that is fine and good. However, in the middle of the game which is more important, concentrate on the ball that is in front of you, or think of the next set or the past point. You can see Nadal he is so fully concentrated in the here and now, nothing distracts him. Another good book and classical is "zen in the art of archery" by Eugen Herrigel(http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Archery-Eugen-Herrigel/dp/0375705090)a very short book too.By concentrating on every moment you are in, you are able to acomplish your task step by step. But if you dwell on past achievements or failures you can't build for the future.
I hope I explained my point.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 10:00 PM
I agree with the patience angle, but I think he and Nadal are probably the two fittest guys on tour from a stamina standpoint. Both those guys can play a 4-5 hour match and neither looks tired. However, it's obvious that Nadal is far superior in physical strength. That's why I think hitting the gym and weights really hard would benefit Fed mentally. A lot of confidence comes simply from physical strength.

Also agree with the earlier post that it will help him a lot when he does drop to 2 or 3. He needs to go into some tournaments as the underdog. He has not done that in over 5 years. Let someone else carry that burden for a while and focus on his game again instead of "making history."

I heard Sampras say in an interview that it's a hell of a lot easier to climb the mountain than it is to stay on top..

agassi bulked up a little in the latter part of his career as well. you pretty much have to these days during the latter part of your career.

this is why i suggested the same thing in my original post. Fed has to hit the gym and bulk up a little. i would get with Gil Reyes ( Agassi trainer). Hewitt has been spending some time with both Agassi and his trainer in Vegas as of late.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 10:02 PM
Good point. Why we say don't look in the future, means don't be obsessed by it. When we live in the moment, we are actually building the future. When I started playing tennis, I had such a hard time concentrating because, I was always thinking of the shot I missed and the next shot etc. then my sister gave me a book called, "The inner game of tennis". A short wonderful book written in the seventies. There are no instructions how to play. It's based on the concept of mindfulness. I forgot the name of the author, an American, he went on to write the same formula on golf etc. When we live in the moment of course we have the sense of the future and the past but we don't dwell on it. For example, you are in the middle of playing a match. You have a game plan that is fine and good. However, in the middle of the game which is more important, concentrate on the ball that is in front of you, or think of the next set or the past point. You can see Nadal he is so fully concentrated in the here and now, nothing distracts him. Another good book and classical is "zen and the art of archery" by Eugen Hergel, very short book too.By concentrating on every moment you are in, you are able to acomplish your task step by step. But if you dwell on past achievements or failures you can't build for the future.
I hope I explained my point.

More than enough :)

Thanks, I'll run a search on those books just now actually, this sort of stuff has suddenly interested me :worship:

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 10:05 PM
agassi bulked up a little in the latter part of his career as well. you pretty much have to these days during the latter part of your career.

this is why i suggested the same thing in my original post. Fed has to hit the gym and bulk up a little. i would get with Gil Reyes ( Agassi trainer). Hewitt has been spending some time with both Agassi and his trainer in Vegas as of late.

That's a good point actually. The older Federer gets, the harder he'll need to work in the gym to sustain a certain degree of fitness when it translates out on the court. I would recommend he do some work in the gym at some point, sooner rather later, because there'll come a time when he can't always rely on his graceful body positioning to get him around the court in time.

MacTheKnife
07-25-2008, 10:06 PM
agassi bulked up a little in the latter part of his career as well. you pretty much have to these days during the latter part of your career.

this is why i suggested the same thing in my original post. Fed has to hit the gym and bulk up a little. i would get with Gil Reyes ( Agassi trainer). Hewitt has been spending some time with both Agassi and his trainer in Vegas as of late.

Man do I agree with this. I was glad to hear that Reyes is working with Querrey now too. That should really help his development. Fed could use some time with Andre too to work on that return game. Arguably the "greatest returner" in the history of the sport, think he could help service returns.

DhammaTiger
07-25-2008, 10:06 PM
i am quite familiar of the Buddhist philosophy. I read all about Prince Gautama once.

thanks. you are the voice of reason here at mtf. keep up the good work.

Thank you

MacTheKnife
07-25-2008, 10:10 PM
Very well said indeed.

Although I would say, if Federer were to adopt this approach, what would his own motivation be for continiung to play the game?

He's already stated that one of his key motivatory factors is now being able to re-write the history books by breaking records etc, so under that practice 'mindfulness', Federer could never allow himself to look forward into the future.

He could look forward or back all he wants, BEFORE AND AFTER THE MATCHES ! I think he's doing in now during the match. I mean no one ever really knows what's in someone's mind, but he's obviously not totally present during his matches right now.

Black Adam
07-25-2008, 10:12 PM
There is a lot of advice available but do you believe that Roger will actually listen to it? It seems that his coaches all struggle to get him to do something.

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 10:12 PM
That's a good point actually. The older Federer gets, the harder he'll need to work in the gym to sustain a certain degree of fitness when it translates out on the court. I would recommend he do some work in the gym at some point, sooner rather later, because there'll come a time when he can't always rely on his graceful body positioning to get him around the court in time.

He is in fact one of the fittest guys out there already, and if you compare his pictures from, say, four years ago, with how looks now, you'd notice he's already bulked up a LOT. He DOES work out in the gym a lot already.

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 10:16 PM
That's a good point actually. The older Federer gets, the harder he'll need to work in the gym to sustain a certain degree of fitness when it translates out on the court. I would recommend he do some work in the gym at some point, sooner rather later, because there'll come a time when he can't always rely on his graceful body positioning to get him around the court in time.

affirmative. as we get older, we become more prone to injury. a solid resistance training program will minimizes the incidence of injury.

physical strength is important for tennis players. you saw Kiefer crack a serve at nearly 139 MPH today and he is a little fellow who is now 31. he too has been spending some extra time in the gym.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 10:17 PM
He is in fact one of the fittest guys out there already, and if you compare his pictures from, say, four years ago, with how looks now, you'd notice he's already bulked up a LOT. He DOES work out in the gym a lot already.

I know he works out, but just what exactly does his current regime consist of. I'm sure he has personal trainers to point him in the right direction regarding routines and nutrional supplements etc, but I thought he looked more physically fit 2 years or so ago.

I didn't take the illness into account though which would have blighted much of his off-season training, especially gym-work so perhaps I'm not giving him enough credit here.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 10:20 PM
He could look forward or back all he wants, BEFORE AND AFTER THE MATCHES ! I think he's doing in now during the match. I mean no one ever really knows what's in someone's mind, but he's obviously not totally present during his matches right now.

It could any number of things really that sit at the back of his mind, personal or tennis-related, but there's a noticeable change in his body language this year, so it could be connected in some way :)

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 10:21 PM
Maybe FEDEX need to see Dr. Phil... :haha:

But seriously... If he wants to Help Himself, he needs to Take the First Step, which is acknowledging that There's A Problem... It's either He's in Denial or Just Stubborn...

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 10:21 PM
I know he works out, but just what exactly does his current regime consist of. I'm sure he has personal trainers to point him in the right direction regarding routines and nutrional supplements etc, but I thought he looked more physically fit 2 years or so ago.

I didn't take the illness into account though which would have blighted much of his off-season training, especially gym-work so perhaps I'm not giving him enough credit here.


he does a lot of stretching. sometimes 2 times a day. he needs to compliment that with a strong resistance training program now. he will be 27 in a just a few days and that is considered to be an old age in tennis.

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 10:23 PM
There is a lot of advice available but do you believe that Roger will actually listen to it? It seems that his coaches all struggle to get him to do something.

EXACTLY!!! :yeah:

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 10:45 PM
EXACTLY!!! :yeah:


Black Adam has a point there.

Clydey
07-25-2008, 10:51 PM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008. He simply has to find a way to win the U.S. Open. He will have to change a few things. He desperatly needs a new paradigm and he must engage in this new thinking at once. A quick and fast overhaul of the mental appratus, if you will.

You will note that he actually looks like a beaten man now. His interviews suggest nothing if they dont suggest that he constantly finds himself in denial these days. Further, he continues to talk as if he really is still the best in the world. The element of presssure is keeping him down. He has to find a way to snap out of this.

here is my advice and input:

1. First and foremost, get rid of Higueras at once and enlist Killer Cahill and Sampras for the next 3 months. They do not have to be present at his matches as they are busy but they can help.

2. Hit the gym and get stronger. There has never been a better time to take his fitness higher than it is now. It wont allow him to regain a little step he has lost but at least he can go all out in his matches and it is quite intimidating for the opposition.

3. Skip the Olympics and focus on the last slam of 2008.

4. Become more of an attacking player than he has ever been before. This is where better fitness and additional physical strength will come in handy. He has the best serve on the planet and he is the best there is at the net. Why not apply constant heat and pressure.

Having lost a little step, he cant really deal with the likes of Nadal and Djokovic off the ground. Even Simon beat him off the ground the other day. Newer approach is needed at once so the serve has to get bigger and better than it already is.

I dont mean play like Sampras but certainly start mixing it up like 40% or so. That means follow the serve to the net around 40% of the time but disaguise it well. This applies to quiker courts. Clay is lost forever so he can forget about clay.

3. New paradigm. Learn to deal with being no longer the best player in the world. It takes the pressure off instantly. He can then quietly work to try to win another slam or 2.

This means he must kill this constant obsession with being #1 instantly. It is just weighing him down now. Play without pressure and play with reckless abandon. He should know by now-- deep inside-- that he still has a fairly formidable game.

Thoughts? Comments? Smart remarks? Insults? Can you help add to this list? What would you do?

He has the best serve on the planet? Slight exaggeration. He has a very good serve, but let's be honest he's not in Karlovic's or Roddick's league.

Also, the last thing Federer needs to do is become more attacking. That's what's killing him. He goes for his shots constantly even when he's spraying UEs all over the joint. He needs to pick his moments better. He already attacks constantly. Federer could never be accused of being tentative.

Clydey
07-25-2008, 10:53 PM
Federer's bad year in summary:

Australian Open - Semis
French Open - Finalist
Wimbledon - Finalist

Indian Wells - Semis
Miami - Quarters
Monte Carlo - Finalist
Rome - Quarters
Hamburg - Finalist
Canada - R32

Ranking at the start of the year: 1
Current Ranking: 1

Fact is, this is a bad year by Federer's impossible standards.

But, you can also think about it this way: Federer is playing right now in about 3rd gear while Nadal is "red lining" his playing engine.

It will be interesting to see however if Nadal can at least defend (or add to) his Semis points in Canada this week. He could add 125 if he is a Finalist or 275 if he wins it. Fed is going to drop from 6600 to 6255. Rafa could reach 6105 points if he wins. Then of course in Cincy, Rafa only has R32 points (5) to defend, but Fed has Champion (500) points to defend.

Rafa's got his big chance right now. Let's see if he can deliver. I for one hope he does.

Let's put those results in perspective. He has the number 1 seeding, so he gets weak competition until the business end of tournaments.

MacTheKnife
07-25-2008, 10:53 PM
There is a lot of advice available but do you believe that Roger will actually listen to it? It seems that his coaches all struggle to get him to do something.

Probably not, but it sure is fun to discuss isn't it... :smash:

Black Adam
07-25-2008, 10:54 PM
I think it was Peter Lungren who said the main difference he had noticed between Federer and Safin is that Safin was alway wiling to try new things/tacticswhilst Federer was more of a "I-know-what-I-am-doing-and-I-will-do-it-my-own-way" kind of person

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 10:56 PM
I think it was Peter Lungren who said the main difference he had noticed between Federer and Safin is that Safin was alway wiling to try new things/tacticswhilst Federer was more of a "I-know-what-I-am-doing-and-I-will-do-it-my-own-way" kind of person

Well if there is one thing that both the haters (:ras:) and his fans can agree on, it is that Fed is indeed kind of stubborn. But well, who can really blame him, after all the success he's had? :shrug:

I miss Peter Carter. :sad:

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 11:01 PM
I think it was Peter Lungren who said the main difference he had noticed between Federer and Safin is that Safin was alway wiling to try new things/tacticswhilst Federer was more of a "I-know-what-I-am-doing-and-I-will-do-it-my-own-way" kind of person

yes he is stubburn. no question about it.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 11:02 PM
Well if there is one thing that both the haters (:ras:) and his fans can agree on, it is that Fed is indeed kind of stubborn. But well, who can really blame him, after all the success he's had? :shrug:

I miss Peter Carter. :sad:

Well, exactly.

Being stubborn can work both to your advantage and your detriment. So long as it's bringing you the success, your going to happily continue being set in your ways. Now that he's hit a stumbling block to success, he may need to break the habit of a lifetime.

Tennis is like any other art in life like music for example. The game will always evolve, new innovations come along every now and then, and you need to be able to analyse your game and adapt to the change, otherwise you'll be left standing behind. This is where being stubborn can be your downfall.

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Maybe FEDEX should go on Vacation with RAFA to Mallorca...maybe talk to Uncle Toni and ask for advices, go fishing, have fun in the sun and water hanging out with some chics and ponder about the meaning of life...yeah, right, maybe this would only happen in the parallel universe :lol:

yeah fishing is a good activity, it would give him time to think and teach him about patience....

Black Adam
07-25-2008, 11:08 PM
10nisfan, your username is so neat :yeah:

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 11:09 PM
Tennis is like any other art in life like music for example. The game will always evolve, new innovations come along every now and then, and you need to be able to analyse your game and adapt to the change, otherwise you'll be left standing behind. This is where being stubborn can be your downfall.

The analogy between tennis and music is indeed a very good one. Indeed, in both of these forms of art, stubborness can either mean Long Time Success... or your downfall. Plenty of examples around to show the correctness of this statement!

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 11:11 PM
Maybe FEDEX should go on Vacation with RAFA to Mallorca...maybe talk to Uncle Toni and ask for advices, go fishing, have fun in the sun and water hanging out with some chics and ponder about the meaning of life...yeah, right, maybe this would only happen in the parallel universe :lol:

yeah fishing is a good activity, it would give him time to think and teach him about patience....

last year when they played that exo in Mallorca on 1/2 grass and 1/2 clay court, Nadal did take Fed fishing before that match.

i wonder what they talked about.

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 11:12 PM
The analogy between tennis and music is indeed a very good one. Indeed, in both of these forms of art, stubborness can either mean Long Time Success... or your downfall. Plenty of examples around to show the correctness of this statement!

:worship::worship:

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:13 PM
10nisfan, your username is so neat :yeah:

Well Thank You... :)

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 11:14 PM
Well Thank You... :)


10sne1

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:17 PM
last year when they played that exo in Mallorca on 1/2 grass and 1/2 clay court, Nadal did take Fed fishing before that match.

i wonder what they talked about.

They DID?... I know they had that 1/2 Grass and 1/2 Clay Exhibition Game, but I didn't know that Rafa took Fedex Fishing... that's cool though...

Black Adam
07-25-2008, 11:18 PM
10sne1
I am kinda lost :confused: 10sne1= Tennes and E1??

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:19 PM
10sne1

is that like "tennis anyone"?

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 11:26 PM
They DID?... I know they had that 1/2 Grass and 1/2 Clay Exhibition Game, but I didn't know that Rafa took Fedex Fishing... that's cool though...

I'm not sure if Rafa actually took him out fishing, but he did invite him on a sea trip on his boat. See the attached picture! :D

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 11:29 PM
They should of got a room together back then. They both have that air of sexual desperation about them. Roger actually looks a bit psychopathic :lol:

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:43 PM
I'm not sure if Rafa actually took him out fishing, but he did invite him on a sea trip on his boat. See the attached picture! :D

oh that's a Cool Pic... :)

They should of got a room together back then. They both have that air of sexual desperation about them. Roger actually looks a bit psychopathic :lol:

:lol:...actually FEDEX looked "Robust" back then compared to Now... seems like he lost some of his body mass this year... must be the Mono...

DhammaTiger
07-25-2008, 11:46 PM
I'm not sure if Rafa actually took him out fishing, but he did invite him on a sea trip on his boat. See the attached picture! :D

Karin Thanks for the picture :hug:

Xenosys
07-25-2008, 11:46 PM
:lol:...actually FEDEX looked "Robust" back then compared to Now... seems like he lost some of his body mass this year... must be the Mono...

I think so as well. I was saying in an earlier thread he looks a little more fragile, physically. It must be down to the illness :)

Clay Death
07-25-2008, 11:54 PM
oh that's a Cool Pic... :)



:lol:...actually FEDEX looked "Robust" back then compared to Now... seems like he lost some of his body mass this year... must be the Mono...

actually he is very strict about his weight. sort of like the way Borg was about his weight.

Borg felt his weight can never exceed 165 pounds because it would throw his ground game off.

Sunset of Age
07-25-2008, 11:58 PM
They should of got a room together back then. They both have that air of sexual desperation about them. Roger actually looks a bit psychopathic :lol:

:lol: there's a new community on LJ dealing with that particular subject: Fedal_Slash (http://community.livejournal.com/fedal_slash/) :p :p :p

Sorry folks, couldn't help myself here. :angel:

Karin Thanks for the picture :hug:

You're welcome, Ali... in fact, I have quite a few more of those. :)
PM me if you want to see those. Rog and Raf get along very fine, and those piccies are good proof of that fact. Bless both of the guys!

10nisfan
07-25-2008, 11:59 PM
actually he is very strict about his weight. sort of like the way Borg was about his weight.

Maybe it's just coz his hair is shorter in that Picture that's why his face looks fuller... Long hair makes us look thinner I think...

Clay Death
07-26-2008, 01:09 AM
I think so as well. I was saying in an earlier thread he looks a little more fragile, physically. It must be down to the illness :)


i see the mono excuse continues to have legs. it will be 2030 and the mono excuse will live on.

Sunset of Age
07-26-2008, 01:34 AM
i see the mono excuse continues to have legs. it will be 2030 and the mono excuse will live on.

I don't know how much knowledge of medical science you have, CD, but indeed - the nasty Eppstein Barr-virus never leaves one's body, and can indeed cause many a fallback in due time. That said, this is NOT an excuse for Roger's poor performance at all!

Fed himself said the mono infection was dealt with, and I believe him on this.

luie
07-26-2008, 01:37 AM
ANDY MURRAY can help him.

star
07-26-2008, 01:50 AM
I don't know how much knowledge of medical science you have, CD, but indeed - the nasty Eppstein Barr-virus never leaves one's body, and can indeed cause many a fallback in due time. That said, this is NOT an excuse for Roger's poor performance at all!

Fed himself said the mono infection was dealt with, and I believe him on this.

I think that glandular fever, mono, or whatever you want to call it is not a recurring condition like herpes. Medical people who have opined on this subject have told us this.

But, I think mono/E-B/glandular fever will continue forever to be the back pocket excuse. When Federer plays well, then he is well, but any sign of leveling off is that darned old mono raising its ugly head. It's fine with me because when I'm reading about mono mono mono, I know Fed's fans think he is in the toilet.

Did FedFans really think that Federer was going to win everything in sight for the next five or ten years? Like he was going to have 25 slams and then retire at the top of the game when he was 35? :speakles:

Federer is still going to be winning some slams. This is a bad year for him, but it's still quite a respectable year. He's still playing somewhere near the top. He's in the mix. I think a lot of it has to do with his losing a bit of his sense of identity. And the Road Trip commercials are almost a little sad at this point. Maybe that will all change in Cincy

Sunset of Age
07-26-2008, 02:03 AM
I think that glandular fever, mono, or whatever you want to call it is not a recurring condition like herpes. Medical people who have opined on this subject have told us this.

But, I think mono/E-B/glandular fever will continue forever to be the back pocket excuse. When Federer plays well, then he is well, but any sign of leveling off is that darned old mono raising its ugly head. It's fine with me because when I'm reading about mono mono mono, I know Fed's fans think he is in the toilet.

DISCLAIMER FIRST: I don't at all attribute Roger's recent loss to mono, or even the recovery from it. There, I said it. :angel:

But it DOES have its reoccuring nastinesses... and I do believe that Roger should rather have listened to his docs, than to play on like he did. That is: take some time off to recuperate. Again, like I said: no excuse. :angel:

Did FedFans really think that Federer was going to win everything in sight for the next five or ten years? Like he was going to have 25 slams and then retire at the top of the game when he was 35? :speakles:

Not me, but of course, I'm not speaking for all of them. It's only natural, and expected, that after such an immaculate run, that things are eventually going to turn around. I never claimed anything of the contrary, and I was just as :speakles: to read that some fans in fact did. :help:

Federer is still going to be winning some slams. This is a bad year for him, but it's still quite a respectable year. He's still playing somewhere near the top. He's in the mix. I think a lot of it has to do with his losing a bit of his sense of identity. And the Road Trip commercials are almost a little sad at this point. Maybe that will all change in Cincy

Well said, indeed. I don't expect it to change in Cincy, to be honest, but I do hope he'll be able to do well at both the Olympics and at the USO.
If not, well, shucks, eh. That's life, even for Roger Federer. :angel:

scoobs
07-26-2008, 02:05 AM
I dunno - maybe we need a milk carton campaign?

Can YOU help Roger Federer?

Call this number...

Clay Death
07-26-2008, 02:38 AM
ANDY MURRAY can help him.


Andy Murray can barely help himself. he has has hired an image consultant to repair his image.

A shrink is under consideration next.

foolish pleasure
07-26-2008, 02:48 AM
I think that glandular fever, mono, or whatever you want to call it is not a recurring condition like herpes. Medical people who have opined on this subject have told us this.

But, I think mono/E-B/glandular fever will continue forever to be the back pocket excuse. When Federer plays well, then he is well, but any sign of leveling off is that darned old mono raising its ugly head. It's fine with me because when I'm reading about mono mono mono, I know Fed's fans think he is in the toilet.

Did FedFans really think that Federer was going to win everything in sight for the next five or ten years? Like he was going to have 25 slams and then retire at the top of the game when he was 35? :speakles:

Federer is still going to be winning some slams. This is a bad year for him, but it's still quite a respectable year. He's still playing somewhere near the top. He's in the mix. I think a lot of it has to do with his losing a bit of his sense of identity. And the Road Trip commercials are almost a little sad at this point. Maybe that will all change in Cincy

i can't speak for FedFans (i am not sure what or who you mean by that exactly), but my impression of the comments on this board and those of commentators and pundits is that the people who are saying roger is done are the clay-deather's of the world: people who don't like roger and have been predicting, gleefully, that he would meet his demise "any minute now," ever since he lost the very first time to nadal in the miami semis or quarters (i forget).

i am not as sanguine as you that roger's career will continue on for years at a "respectable" but less dominate level--i have never seen a top, number one player of roger's calliber be "allowed" that luxury--pete was hounded out for dropping to like three in the world. there is a reason players do what borg and wilander did and walk away while still number one--yesterday, ffs, patrick "what did i ever win" mccenroe was saying that roger shouldn't even be on the swiss davis cup team now, and that the best swiss player was "clearly" warwranka. jfc!:rolleyes:

but anyway, i am glad in a way that all of you RafaFans have got your fondest desire--there is a luxury in being number 2 that he no longer has now--he cannot do the lawnmower after winners anymore or jump into the air like a fool, without seeming as offensive as lleyton hewitt always has doing the same thing, and (heh!) he can't loose now, he must win, no more losses to the pim pim's of the world, no more six months off every fall. no more, "poor lamb was exhausted." no more "oh my poor knees." that is the burden of being number 1. :wavey:

(ps: i don't know anything about roger's health, but his mono is as believable (or not) as rafa's "bad knees").

Nidhogg
07-26-2008, 03:11 AM
I dunno - maybe we need a milk carton campaign?

Can YOU help Roger Federer?

Call this number...

With Uncle Sam on the carton. Hear hear.

peterparker
07-26-2008, 04:48 AM
I'm not sure if Rafa actually took him out fishing, but he did invite him on a sea trip on his boat. See the attached picture! :D

what year is that from?

edited to add: oh CD answered. was reading the thread backwards.

10nisfan
07-26-2008, 04:50 AM
Uncle Toni

zaboomafoo
07-26-2008, 05:34 AM
Uncle Toni

yep, this guy got it right

Sebby
07-26-2008, 06:09 AM
It's a desperate situation, so only God can help him.

Or maybe a good kick in the ass.

Allez
07-26-2008, 07:45 AM
Hiring Pete Sampras would the be worst thing he could do. I believe it's all those exhibitions with Sampras (who still wants to retain his records!) that have undermined Roger's rythym. I want him away from that man.

I agree his age has caught up with him and he is clearly a lot slower than he used to be though I still believe he probably has 2 slams left in him IF he can sort out the mental side of things.

Here's what he needs to do

1. Let go off the number 1 ranking. Accept there are better players on the circuit now.

2. Fire his coach. He should never have fired Tony Roche. That was a good
relationship despite him not winning the French.

3. Work on his fitness. Agassi and his associates could help here.

4. Leave Mirka home & travel with a much leaner (no pun intended) staff but a sports psychologist is a must. He needs someone to talk to about the monsters in his head.

5. Win the Olympics! This is a must. The confidence he will gain from winning for his country is what he needs going into the USO. It won't tire him out.

Everything else will click. He knows what to do on the court. Doesn't need any advice there.

prima donna
07-26-2008, 08:05 AM
Hahahaha.

Sebby
07-26-2008, 08:09 AM
lol

finishingmove
07-26-2008, 08:31 AM
what roger federer needs right now is more cowbell:

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/2/2f/Cowbell2.gif ,

so the only guy that can help him is:

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/f/fc/Chrislithiyums.jpg

Sebby
07-26-2008, 08:39 AM
Sleepy Hollow :scared: :rocker:

MrChopin
07-26-2008, 09:02 AM
what roger federer needs right now is more cowbell:

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/2/2f/Cowbell2.gif

:lol:

He does have a (glandular) fever.

Commander Data
07-26-2008, 09:11 AM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008. He simply has to find a way to win the U.S. Open. He will have to change a few things. He desperatly needs a new paradigm and he must engage in this new thinking at once. A quick and fast overhaul of the mental appratus, if you will.

You will note that he actually looks like a beaten man now. His interviews suggest nothing if they dont suggest that he constantly finds himself in denial these days. Further, he continues to talk as if he really is still the best in the world. The element of presssure is keeping him down. He has to find a way to snap out of this.

here is my advice and input:

1. First and foremost, get rid of Higueras at once and enlist Killer Cahill and Sampras for the next 3 months. They do not have to be present at his matches as they are busy but they can help.

2. Hit the gym and get stronger. There has never been a better time to take his fitness higher than it is now. It wont allow him to regain a little step he has lost but at least he can go all out in his matches and it is quite intimidating for the opposition.

3. Skip the Olympics and focus on the last slam of 2008.

4. Become more of an attacking player than he has ever been before. This is where better fitness and additional physical strength will come in handy. He has the best serve on the planet and he is the best there is at the net. Why not apply constant heat and pressure.

Having lost a little step, he cant really deal with the likes of Nadal and Djokovic off the ground. Even Simon beat him off the ground the other day. Newer approach is needed at once so the serve has to get bigger and better than it already is.

I dont mean play like Sampras but certainly start mixing it up like 40% or so. That means follow the serve to the net around 40% of the time but disaguise it well. This applies to quiker courts. Clay is lost forever so he can forget about clay.

3. New paradigm. Learn to deal with being no longer the best player in the world. It takes the pressure off instantly. He can then quietly work to try to win another slam or 2.

This means he must kill this constant obsession with being #1 instantly. It is just weighing him down now. Play without pressure and play with reckless abandon. He should know by now-- deep inside-- that he still has a fairly formidable game.

Thoughts? Comments? Smart remarks? Insults? Can you help add to this list? What would you do?


i agree with most. don't think he should skip olympics though. i mean it is the dream of his Life to win them.

But i think he must chnage his mental approach. be the hungry tiger again. His is not the King anymore. he needs to realize that and use it to his advantage. Yes get Cahill as coach, I second that. Get some really materminds around hin that can help him out of this hole.

aroofnow
07-26-2008, 12:24 PM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008.

As a huge Federer fan I hope I'm wrong, but I think the situation is far worse than that. I believe the question is, can he salvage his career?

You're right. He does appear to be in denial. After the French he simply said that he was still the massive favourite for Wimbledon, and after his last 2 defeats he has made similarly deluded comments.
He has lost a step which, at his age, he isn't going to get back, but his unforced errors have also increased alarmingly (during the Wimbledon final, the number of forehands that ended up in the net reminded me of Connors v Ashe). Going back in history again, very few could have predicted MacEnroe's decline barely a year after demolishing Connors in the 84 Wimbledon final. He took time off but was never the same player when he returned.

I do believe, though, that Federer's biggest problem is the way he is apaarently unable to accept the decline in his powers. I don't think there is much he can do about the latter but, even so, he should still be good enough to win many tournaments, and even the odd major if he's lucky in the draw, but not in his current state of mind. Unless he does something about this soon, I can see him going the way of Borg.

mtw
07-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Maybe he is already tired or maybe it is short-lived fluctuation of his form.

Zolka
07-26-2008, 01:38 PM
I personally don't know what to think, we all can see there is something wrong, and i think most of us agree, that's a mental problem. What should he do? I don't know. I think he'll be allright, he is far from finished.I have to disagree with some of you, on the "physical part", i don't think he lost a step, or even a tiny bit of athleticism.

He's 27 years old, but his legs are probably "younger" than some of the young guns', so i don't think we see a physical declining, i don't think at all. He is maybe not 100 % physically, but he will be (could be), it all depends on him, if he works hard.

As for the retiring sonsense... C'mon... It's just crazy talk, why in the world would he want to retire, when he can easily make two Grand Slam final in his bad year (which is far from over)? That's just crazy. Roger is a classy guy, he takes losing very well, he is not going anywhere, he is not gonna retire just because he is not the World number 1, and why would he? That's just wishful thinking from some of you guys. Let's just wait what happens in Cincy and at the Olympics. Go Roger!

Sebby
07-26-2008, 01:44 PM
because Nadal owns his ass badly.

Zolka
07-26-2008, 02:04 PM
because Nadal owns his ass badly.

Well, not that badly, I mean their h2h is 6-12, we've seen worse than that, and let's not forget that most of these matches were on clay, where Rafa is totally, utterly dominates everybody, and possibly the GOAT (or will be) on that surface. But back for the h2h, even if it were 15-3, it would be a reason for retiring? Of course not. Nadal right now is scary good, no question about it, and he'll take the totally deserved Number 1 spot sooner or later, but that's not the end of the world for Roger. Let's not forget it wasn't too long ago when Roger whopped Rafa's famous ass at the TMC in Shanghai, Nadal didn't win a single tournament for what, like 10 months? I knew he will be back, and stronger than ever, and i'm hoping the same for Roger, we'll see if he can do it or not. I'm just saying, in sports, anything could happen. ;)

Clay Death
07-26-2008, 05:27 PM
I personally don't know what to think, we all can see there is something wrong, and i think most of us agree, that's a mental problem. What should he do? I don't know. I think he'll be allright, he is far from finished.I have to disagree with some of you, on the "physical part", i don't think he lost a step, or even a tiny bit of athleticism.

He's 27 years old, but his legs are probably "younger" than some of the young guns', so i don't think we see a physical declining, i don't think at all. He is maybe not 100 % physically, but he will be (could be), it all depends on him, if he works hard.

As for the retiring sonsense... C'mon... It's just crazy talk, why in the world would he want to retire, when he can easily make two Grand Slam final in his bad year (which is far from over)? That's just crazy. Roger is a classy guy, he takes losing very well, he is not going anywhere, he is not gonna retire just because he is not the World number 1, and why would he? That's just wishful thinking from some of you guys. Let's just wait what happens in Cincy and at the Olympics. Go Roger!


he wants to play for another 10 years. i think that is unrealistic. why damage your legacy by getting killed by the young guns.

Zolka
07-26-2008, 05:59 PM
he wants to play for another 10 years. i think that is unrealistic. why damage your legacy by getting killed by the young guns.

I agree with you, 10 years is a totally unrealistic goal. As he said he wanna play at the London Olympic Games, i think that's a realistic goal, but of course we cannot see the future. I definitely don't think he should retire now just because he'll lose the Number 1 spot, and there is a possibility he won't win a single slam this year,(which is not a closed case), real sportmen don't do that, and i believe he is one the best, classiest sportsman of all-time, he won't run away, he'll try his best, to be the best.

Clay Death
07-26-2008, 06:11 PM
I agree with you, 10 years is a totally unrealistic goal. As he said he wanna play at the London Olympic Games, i think that's a realistic goal, but of course we cannot see the future. I definitely don't think he should retire now just because he'll lose the Number 1 spot, and there is a possibility he won't win a single slam this year,(which is not a closed case), real sportmen don't do that, and i believe he is one the best, classiest sportsman of all-time, he won't run away, he'll try his best, to be the best.

drop in rankings will be a blessing for him. he can stop being a slave to the rankings. they are clearly misleading in his case.

and those rankings are a constant source of pressure for him. he should also just try to peak for slams now and forget about domination. that domination thing is just not going to happen again.

luie
07-26-2008, 06:29 PM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008. He simply has to find a way to win the U.S. Open. He will have to change a few things. He desperatly needs a new paradigm and he must engage in this new thinking at once. A quick and fast overhaul of the mental appratus, if you will.

You will note that he actually looks like a beaten man now. His interviews suggest nothing if they dont suggest that he constantly finds himself in denial these days. Further, he continues to talk as if he really is still the best in the world. The element of presssure is keeping him down. He has to find a way to snap out of this.

here is my advice and input:

1. First and foremost, get rid of Higueras at once and enlist Killer Cahill and Sampras for the next 3 months. They do not have to be present at his matches as they are busy but they can help.

2. Hit the gym and get stronger. There has never been a better time to take his fitness higher than it is now. It wont allow him to regain a little step he has lost but at least he can go all out in his matches and it is quite intimidating for the opposition.

3. Skip the Olympics and focus on the last slam of 2008.

4. Become more of an attacking player than he has ever been before. This is where better fitness and additional physical strength will come in handy. He has the best serve on the planet and he is the best there is at the net. Why not apply constant heat and pressure.

Having lost a little step, he cant really deal with the likes of Nadal and Djokovic off the ground. Even Simon beat him off the ground the other day. Newer approach is needed at once so the serve has to get bigger and better than it already is.

I dont mean play like Sampras but certainly start mixing it up like 40% or so. That means follow the serve to the net around 40% of the time but disaguise it well. This applies to quiker courts. Clay is lost forever so he can forget about clay.

3. New paradigm. Learn to deal with being no longer the best player in the world. It takes the pressure off instantly. He can then quietly work to try to win another slam or 2.

This means he must kill this constant obsession with being #1 instantly. It is just weighing him down now. Play without pressure and play with reckless abandon. He should know by now-- deep inside-- that he still has a fairly formidable game.

Thoughts? Comments? Smart remarks? Insults? Can you help add to this list? What would you do?

Clay death one question,,why would you of all people start a thread like this... YOU very much enjoy federer losing.:confused::confused:

alfonsojose
07-26-2008, 07:36 PM
Clay death one question,,why would you of all people start a thread like this... YOU very much enjoy federer losing.:confused::confused:

Like Nadal, He enjoys caressing his b*tches :shrug: ;)

MacTheKnife
07-26-2008, 08:01 PM
For the short time I've been here I have really not seen CD bash Fed nearly as bad as some other Nadal fans. And I really can't understand why they do it. How could a Nadal fan say Fed sucks, then Nadal has to go 5 sets and win it 9-7 in the 5th at Wimby. Saying Fed sucks would only detract from that win, no ??

Wouldn't you want your guy to beat a great player, not brag when he beats someone that you think is washed up. I just cant understand that thought process.

jasmin
07-26-2008, 08:01 PM
For the moment Nadal is the best but not over a 4 year period so the rankings aren't misleading. I do think agree that it's too much pressure to try to remain number one or pass a record.

Everyone loses the number one spot at some point and so will Nadal or even Djoko if he makes it.

safin-rules-no.1
07-26-2008, 08:54 PM
Xristos could help him :)

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 02:20 AM
For the short time I've been here I have really not seen CD bash Fed nearly as bad as some other Nadal fans. And I really can't understand why they do it. How could a Nadal fan say Fed sucks, then Nadal has to go 5 sets and win it 9-7 in the 5th at Wimby. Saying Fed sucks would only detract from that win, no ??

Wouldn't you want your guy to beat a great player, not brag when he beats someone that you think is washed up. I just cant understand that thought process.

i am more about the sport of tennis and competition at the highest levels. that will lift the sport.

Fed raised the bar and forced others around him to improve. Clay Monster is a shining example of that. he lifted his game and also changed his thinking/mindset/mental apparatus and left both Fed and Djokovic in the dust.

now they have to try to get better. the sport is better for it.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 03:00 AM
For the short time I've been here I have really not seen CD bash Fed nearly as bad as some other Nadal fans. And I really can't understand why they do it. How could a Nadal fan say Fed sucks, then Nadal has to go 5 sets and win it 9-7 in the 5th at Wimby. Saying Fed sucks would only detract from that win, no ??

Wouldn't you want your guy to beat a great player, not brag when he beats someone that you think is washed up. I just cant understand that thought process.

Great post, Mac. :hug: :yeah:
It bedazzles me just as much as it does you.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 03:18 AM
Great post, Mac. :hug: :yeah:
It bedazzles me just as much as it does you.

thats because we know how to "bedazzle" you Karin.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 03:34 AM
thats because we know how to "bedazzle" you Karin.

Apparently. :lol:

lina_seta
07-27-2008, 04:43 AM
well think it this way.... roger will have the pressure of #1 and wimbly off his back at last. He still has many points to defend this year, but come next year he will have nothing to lose, little points to defend, and will come back as #1... i dont quite see rafa holding this rhythm for long. Rafa is playing the best tennis of his life to reach #1. Roger is playing very sub-par to allow rafa to become #1. Roger still has the tennis to become the GOAT.
Next year will be very interesting, as rafa will have all the pressure to win every tournament and roger will be the one chasing. A chase that unlike history, is much easier to achieve.

BBrian
07-27-2008, 07:46 AM
I think it's good for roger to drop down to the number 2 or 3 in the rankings forcing him to accept he is no longer nr1, I hope it will release the pressure on him.

That and perhaps mirka should pick up a racket aswell, she is better of to changing her name to milka (http://iter-reti.it/easyUp/news/milka.jpg) right now. I wouldn't be happy to come home after losing and have a cow in my bed.

Allez
07-27-2008, 08:01 AM
Everyone keeps harping on about how nadal can't possibly dominate the way Fed has, but i never hear any valid arguments to back that up. I hear the usual, 'oh his body will break down' bullshit. The guy is only 22 years old! Even if he remains number 1 for just 2 years, that will stop Roger from ever reclaiming the number 1 rank. He'd be way too old for that. There will be no returning to the number 1 rank next year. Roger will still have lots of points to defend - OZ semi, all the clay season points and Wimbledon. Fact is, I do not think being number 1 should be his priority from now onwards. He should focus on trying to win three more slams, something which looks almost impossible right now.

Midnight Express
07-27-2008, 11:20 AM
Federer's bad year in summary:

Australian Open - Semis
French Open - Finalist
Wimbledon - Finalist

Indian Wells - Semis
Miami - Quarters
Monte Carlo - Finalist
Rome - Quarters
Hamburg - Finalist
Canada - R32

Ranking at the start of the year: 1
Current Ranking: 1

Fact is, this is a bad year by Federer's impossible standards.

And since this is ATP not WTA where anyone can be nr.1 without even winning a GS or like even being in SF...RAFA SHOULD BE nr. 1!!

Sebby
07-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Damn! Jesus himself has coming to help Roger :haha:

Zolka
07-27-2008, 11:26 AM
Everyone keeps harping on about how nadal can't possibly dominate the way Fed has, but i never hear any valid arguments to back that up. I hear the usual, 'oh his body will break down' bullshit. The guy is only 22 years old! Even if he remains number 1 for just 2 years, that will stop Roger from ever reclaiming the number 1 rank. He'd be way too old for that. There will be no returning to the number 1 rank next year. Roger will still have lots of points to defend - OZ semi, all the clay season points and Wimbledon. Fact is, I do not think being number 1 should be his priority from now onwards. He should focus on trying to win three more slams, something which looks almost impossible right now.


What you wrote about Roger, wishful thinking at its best. He eaaasiiily made it to the final at two Grand Slam events, in his bad year, i think he'll be allright next year, he is 27 years old, his legs are probably "younger" than Rafa's, so i don't see your point. It's a mental problem, and i think he will bounce back. You could say that's the wishful thinking, but i don't think so, his style of play is NOT demanding, his serves are improving as he gets older, he won't be dominate like he did, but the possibility of him not winning another slam, i think really slight.



The other thing. Why are people think Nadal can't reach the total domination? You want valid arguments? First of all, i think he can do it. I also think it's a long shot, and really not because i'm a big Roger fan.

Why i think it's a longshot.

1, We never ever saw him dominating on hard courts, even when he won a tournament, it was hard work, determination, and tough matches.

2, He never ever showed us that he can be consistent at the second half of the year, he showed the exact opposite every single year.

3, He never ever showed us that he can dominate the U.S Open series, and if you can't win there consistently (back to back hardcourt events), you can throw the idea of total domination out the window. The courts are even faster there, make it tough for Nadal to win. Roger reached almost every single clay court event's final under those magical years, do you honestly think that could be the case with Nadal at hard courts?

4, He's style of play is demanding. I'm not talking about an injury, you never know when it comes, and it could happen to anyone, and just for the record, i'm not wishing that for anybody, i played professional sport for a couple of years, i have tremendous respect for sportmen. What i'm talking about is that (i think) his style of play probably won't allow him to win back to back hard court events, maybe ever (and he should be doing that for YEARS!), because his body will respond, and not in a good way, you can't sacrifice your body without paying the price.

He never injured seriously (fortunately), but still, he couldn't do his best for 12 months, because of the little health problems, (tendinitis is not a little problem), so i can't see the possibility of the total domination, because of that. I think he won't stay at the top "forever" like Roger did, (Roger or Novak will catch him) but he can dominate for sure. He's doing it right now. But the total domination will be tough for him.

A_Skywalker
07-27-2008, 11:34 AM
What you wrote about Roger, wishful thinking at its best. He eaaasiiily made it to the final at two Grand Slam events, in his bad year, i think he'll be allright next year, he is 27 years old, his legs are younger than Rafa's, so i don't see your point. It's a mental problem, and i think he will bounce back. You could say that's the wishful thinking, but i don't think so, his style of play is NOT demanding, his serves are improving as he gets older, he won't be dominate like he did, but the possibility of him not winning another slam, i think really slight.



The other thing. Why are people think Nadal can't reach the total domination? You want valid arguments? First of all, i think he can do it. I also think it's a long shot, and really not because i'm a big Roger fan.

Why i think it's a longshot.

1, We never ever saw him dominating on hard courts, even when he won a tournament, it was hard work, determination, and tough matches.

2, He never ever showed us that he can be consistent at the second half of the year, he showed the exact opposite every single year.

3, He never ever showed us that he can dominate the U.S Open series, and if you can't win there consistently (back to back hardcourt events), you can throw the idea of total domination out the window. The courts are even faster there, make it tough for Nadal to win. Roger reached almost every single clay court event's final under those magical years, do you honestly think that could be the case with Nadal at hard courts?

4, He's style of play is demanding. I'm not talking about an injury, you never know when it comes, and it could happen to anyone, and just for the record, i'm not wishing that for anybody, i played professional sport for a couple of years, i have tremendous respect for sportmen. What i'm talking about is that (i think) his style of play probably won't allow him to win back to back hard court events, maybe ever (and he should be doing that for YEARS!), because his body will respond, and not in a good way, you can't sacrifice your body without paying the price.

He never injured seriously (fortunately), but still, he couldn't do his best for 12 months, because of the little health problems, (tendinitis is not a little problem), so i can't see the possibility of the total domination, because of that. I think he won't stay at the top "forever" like Roger did, (Roger or Novak will catch him) but he can dominate for sure. He's doing it right now. But the total domination will be tough for him.

His legs are younger than Rafa's ?

Zolka
07-27-2008, 11:36 AM
His legs are younger than Rafa's ?

C'mon, you know what i meant. :p But yeah it was a stupid sentence, i'm gonna edit it. :)

Eden
07-27-2008, 11:40 AM
That and perhaps mirka should pick up a racket aswell, she is better of to changing her name to milka (http://iter-reti.it/easyUp/news/milka.jpg) right now. I wouldn't be happy to come home after losing and have a cow in my bed.

Fantastic 1st post. It suits perfectly to the quality of GM.

MacTheKnife
07-27-2008, 11:40 AM
His legs are younger than Rafa's ?

I "think" what he means is Rafa as put more wear and tear on his legs at 22 than Fed has at 27.. that may be right..

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 12:07 PM
I "think" what he means is Rafa as put more wear and tear on his legs at 22 than Fed has at 27.. that may be right..

Exactly. It's not too far off at all, and as the OP already said the sentence wasn't well put, there's no need for ridiculing him/her.

Zolka
07-27-2008, 12:25 PM
Exactly. It's not too far off at all, and as the OP already said the sentence wasn't well put, there's no need for ridiculing him/her.

Thanks guys, i'm a he btw. :) I didn't mean to offend any Rafa fan (i really don't want anyone to be injured), but yeah, i think Roger knees are in better shape at the age of 27. The only reason i felt the need to point that out, was because the "way too old" nonsense what Allez wrote. He is not that old. :)

Eden
07-27-2008, 12:50 PM
well think it this way.... roger will have the pressure of #1 and wimbly off his back at last. He still has many points to defend this year, but come next year he will have nothing to lose, little points to defend

You call 1 GS SF and 2 GS finals apart from the other results so far little to defend?

He will still have pressure on his shoulders to get back the #1, win the amount of GS tournaments to break Sampras' record. Not to mention to deal with the crap the press is writing about him.

i dont quite see rafa holding this rhythm for long. Rafa is playing the best tennis of his life to reach #1. Roger is playing very sub-par to allow rafa to become #1.

Rafa is playing consistently good tennis for the last years and if there hadn't been a player named Roger Federer around he would have been #1 already long time ago.

It still has to be seen though how Rafa will deal with the situation of getting hunted by the other players. He won't have the advantage of putting the pressure on Federer.


Roger still has the tennis to become the GOAT.

Of course.

I mean it's ridiculous that a player who has been in 2 GS finals and in 1 GS SF in a year is already written off by people. A lot of players on the tour can only dream of achieving this once in their career.

It just shows how high Roger set the standards in tennis in the last years. It won't get easier for him to win tournaments every week, like he used to in his dominant time, but neither topplayer had done it. The main focus will be on the major tournaments and it's still a difference to beat Roger in a best of 3 or best of 5 match.

For me Roger is lacking selfconfidence and trust in his game this year above all. It's not easy to bounce back from disappoiting results when you are used to had success otherwise, but it's only natural that it takes time to recover from hurting losses. And the Wimbledon one was the most depressing one for him.

He started practising just a few days before the start of Toronto and played there against someone who had already played a few matches on the surface and was having a great run.

I'm sure Roger and his team will analyze this year during the offseason and hopefully find the right solutions what to do. It won't work to change many things when you play tournaments every week.

Roger said how much the Olympic Games mean to him, therefore he won't skip them. I don't think Sampras would be interested at all in coaching someone who is on the way to break his records, no matter how much he respects Roger.

It's hard to find the perfect coach for a player who has won 12 GS tournaments. When Roger worked with Roche people were questioning what Tony would do for him - now people long back to the times when they worked together.

As much as a coach helps you in practising he won't be able to help you when you are on the court in a real match. Would it really matter who would have been at Roger's side when he was wasting his leads in sets of the matches against Nadal in Monte Carlo, Hamburg and Wimbledon and against Simon in Toronto?

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Everyone keeps harping on about how nadal can't possibly dominate the way Fed has, but i never hear any valid arguments to back that up. I hear the usual, 'oh his body will break down' bullshit. The guy is only 22 years old! Even if he remains number 1 for just 2 years, that will stop Roger from ever reclaiming the number 1 rank. He'd be way too old for that. There will be no returning to the number 1 rank next year. Roger will still have lots of points to defend - OZ semi, all the clay season points and Wimbledon. Fact is, I do not think being number 1 should be his priority from now onwards. He should focus on trying to win three more slams, something which looks almost impossible right now.

great post. what people dont realize is that there is no way Fed can ever regain a little lost step. his game is built on superb footwork, speed, and ridiculous preperation since he is a baseliner. slightest decline in the movement means greater than proportional loss of effectiveness on the court.

he will be staring 28 in the face come next year at this time. nobody has ever escaped slowing down a little at that age in tennis. the trick is to be able to overcome and compensate for that loss so you can keep playing and competing.

there is no way he can dominate again the way he has for the last 4 years. Clay Monster will likely take over for a couple of years and by then Fed will be looking at 30.

it gets harder for him going forward, not easier. this is why he has to embrace the idea of no longer being the dominant force. he has to focus on hard court slams and Wimbledon and see if he can pull off something.

i have suggested in my original post how he can do that.

Allez
07-27-2008, 02:46 PM
What you wrote about Roger, wishful thinking at its best. He eaaasiiily made it to the final at two Grand Slam events, in his bad year, i think he'll be allright next year, he is 27 years old, his legs are probably "younger" than Rafa's, so i don't see your point. It's a mental problem, and i think he will bounce back. You could say that's the wishful thinking, but i don't think so, his style of play is NOT demanding, his serves are improving as he gets older, he won't be dominate like he did, but the possibility of him not winning another slam, i think really slight.



The other thing. Why are people think Nadal can't reach the total domination? You want valid arguments? First of all, i think he can do it. I also think it's a long shot, and really not because i'm a big Roger fan.

Why i think it's a longshot.

1, We never ever saw him dominating on hard courts, even when he won a tournament, it was hard work, determination, and tough matches.

2, He never ever showed us that he can be consistent at the second half of the year, he showed the exact opposite every single year.

3, He never ever showed us that he can dominate the U.S Open series, and if you can't win there consistently (back to back hardcourt events), you can throw the idea of total domination out the window. The courts are even faster there, make it tough for Nadal to win. Roger reached almost every single clay court event's final under those magical years, do you honestly think that could be the case with Nadal at hard courts?

4, He's style of play is demanding. I'm not talking about an injury, you never know when it comes, and it could happen to anyone, and just for the record, i'm not wishing that for anybody, i played professional sport for a couple of years, i have tremendous respect for sportmen. What i'm talking about is that (i think) his style of play probably won't allow him to win back to back hard court events, maybe ever (and he should be doing that for YEARS!), because his body will respond, and not in a good way, you can't sacrifice your body without paying the price.

He never injured seriously (fortunately), but still, he couldn't do his best for 12 months, because of the little health problems, (tendinitis is not a little problem), so i can't see the possibility of the total domination, because of that. I think he won't stay at the top "forever" like Roger did, (Roger or Novak will catch him) but he can dominate for sure. He's doing it right now. But the total domination will be tough for him.

I don’t even know where to start :haha:

Roger's 27 year old legs are "younger" than Nadals 22 year old legs ? As CD and other keep pointing out its in not just the mileage that matters but also that lost step that can never be regained. There are a lot of old people whose legs are "younger" than most athletes (and younger non athletes). I hope you're not suggesting that just because you've never fully used your legs before, they will remain operational for a lot longer than those who have chosen to use them.


Your reasons for dismissing Nadal as a potential dominant number 1

1. He hasn't dominated hard courts - Well neither did Roger at the same age. In fact Nadal has won more big hard court tournaments than Roger did at the same age (if we excluded his 2004 exploits...that being the year he turned 23). So what's your point ?

2 & 3 He has not been consistent in the 2nd half of the year. Neither was Roger until 2004 when he started dominating as a 23 year old. Give Nadal another year. I still don't see your point :shrug: Also he does not need to dominate the US hard court season to be the overall dominant player. If he wins 3 slams in a season, that is enough domination in most people's minds. Roger did it without ever being dominant during the clay season. It can be done as Roger demonstrated.

4. His style of play is demanding....well that's your opinion. Also, so what ? He is very comfortable with his style of play. I think more damaging to him would be an ill adised temptation to try and play like Roger. He is not suited to that kind of play. Also I'm sure you agree that he has made a lot of improvements to his game, so that hope you carry is a dying hope.

5. Injuries injuries. That is a very thin argument to make. Anything is possible, but barring any serious injuries, he's here to stay.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 02:56 PM
I don’t even know where to start :haha:

Roger's 27 year old legs are "younger" than Nadals 22 year old legs ? As CD and other keep pointing out its in not just the mileage that matters but also that lost step that can never be regained. There are a lot of old people whose legs are "younger" than most athletes (and younger non athletes). I hope you're not suggesting that just because you've never fully used your legs before, they will remain operational for a lot longer than those who have chosen to use them.


Your reasons for dismissing Nadal as a potential dominant number 1

1. He hasn't dominated hard courts - Well neither did Roger at the same age. In fact Nadal has won more big hard court tournaments than Roger did at the same age (if we excluded his 2004 exploits...that being the year he turned 23). So what's your point ?

2 & 3 He has not been consistent in the 2nd half of the year. Neither was Roger until 2004 when he started dominating as a 23 year old. Give Nadal another year. I still don't see your point :shrug: Also he does not need to dominate the US hard court season to be the overall dominant player. If he wins 3 slams in a season, that is enough domination in most people's minds. Roger did it without ever being dominant during the clay season. It can be done as Roger demonstrated.

4. His style of play is demanding....well that's your opinion. Also, so what ? He is very comfortable with his style of play. I think more damaging to him would be an ill adised temptation to try and play like Roger. He is not suited to that kind of play. Also I'm sure you agree that he has made a lot of improvements to his game, so that hope you carry is a dying hope.

5. Injuries injuries. That is a very thin argument to make. Anything is possible, but barring any serious injuries, he's here to stay.

great post. Fed had just one slam by 22. Nadal has 5 times that number by the same age. Nadal is also going to have at least 7 slams by just one month past his 23rd birthday.

after today, he will have collected 4 masters shields on hard courts. not bad for a guy who cant play on hard courts.

he will have 30 titles after today. how many did Fed have by this same age?

the bottom line is that he can now win anywhere and he keeps getting better. he showed he can win on very slick grass at Queens. he also conquered Wimbledon.

Nadal`s record against one of the greatest ever to play:

1. he has him 12-6 in head-to-head.
2. he has him 11-4 in finals.
3. he has him in 4 out of 6 slams.

just how much proof do you need that this guy can play and win?

Stensland
07-27-2008, 03:07 PM
nadal will have to cope with the aftermath of his exhausting game one day though. i don't think he can keep up the pace he's set so far this year, after all he IS human (isn't he?). we all know his will is going to be a major force, but even though it may make up for a downturn in movement over the next years, it will eventually have an impact nonetheless. check out guys like schüttler who burned down pretty much within a year. rafa's "testicular fortitude" helps a lot but one day he's just done.

fed on the other hand can probably keep a solid top-5-game until he's 35 if he wants to.

anon57
07-27-2008, 03:15 PM
nadal will have to cope with the aftermath of his exhausting game one day though. i don't think he can keep up the pace he's set so far this year, after all he IS human (isn't he?). we all know his will is going to be a major force, but even though it may make up for a downturn in movement over the next years, it will eventually have an impact nonetheless. check out guys like schüttler who burned down pretty much within a year. rafa's "testicular fortitude" helps a lot but one day he's just done.

fed on the other hand can probably keep a solid top-5-game until he's 35 if he wants to.
But for the past 2-3 years people have been saying Nadal wouldn't be able to keep up the pace with the playing style he has, but over those years he's continued improving his play and has developed into a better player. He's had some "lesser" periods but until now he's always bounced back and although eventually he will slow down that may not be for another 2-3 years and by that time Federer will be 30, and Fed will be having a much harder time trying to defeat players 10 years younger than him.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 03:23 PM
But for the past 2-3 years people have been saying Nadal wouldn't be able to keep up the pace with the playing style he has, but over those years he's continued improving his play and has developed into a better player. He's had some "lesser" periods but until now he's always bounced back and although eventually he will slow down that may not be for another 2-3 years and by that time Federer will be 30, and Fed will be having a much harder time trying to defeat players 10 years younger than him.

thats the point to be noted. also, why the hell would Fed ruin and tarnish his legacy. why whould he want to go from having been so dominant to a nobody that is pushed around by players 10 years younger.

it will also be too much of a mental burden. he will try to exit the sport near the top and not when he has dropped to just a top 10 player.

Stensland
07-27-2008, 03:23 PM
But for the past 2-3 years people have been saying Nadal wouldn't be able to keep up the pace with the playing style he has, but over those years he's continued improving his play and has developed into a better player...

...which is astonishing but he WILL decline, and it WILL happen faster and steeper than federer once his movement lets him down as his whole game is based on it.

unless the druggy spaniards prop him up until he retires... :angel: ;)

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 03:28 PM
...which is astonishing but he WILL decline, and it WILL happen faster and steeper than federer once his movement lets him down as his whole game is based on it.

unless the druggy spaniards prop him up until he retires... :angel: ;)


so it happens when it happens. in the mean time he is enjoying destroying one of the greatest ever to pick up a racquet.

he single-handedly brought down one of the greatest tennis players ever to play the game.

now thats an achievement of not just a lifetime but an achievement for history books that will last forever.

Zolka
07-27-2008, 03:53 PM
CD: Roger won 3 slams before he turned 23, not one. Not that it matters much, the age comparison is useless by itself, Nadal peaked earlier. Doesn't mean too much.

star
07-27-2008, 03:58 PM
CD: Roger won 3 slams before he turned 23, not one. Not that it matters much, the age comparison is useless by itself, Nadal peaked earlier. Doesn't mean too much.

Right. We've been through that debate time and again on MTF. Facts don't support any age comparison.

prima donna
07-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Right. We've been through that debate time and again on MTF. Facts don't support any age comparison.
More time debating or more time stalking ?

dylan24
07-27-2008, 04:15 PM
only thing that can help fed is a sports psychologist.

hopefully mirka would get him to one, but i think she is more interested in eating and shopping than helping roger.

Zolka
07-27-2008, 04:24 PM
I don’t even know where to start :haha:

Roger's 27 year old legs are "younger" than Nadals 22 year old legs ? As CD and other keep pointing out its in not just the mileage that matters but also that lost step that can never be regained. There are a lot of old people whose legs are "younger" than most athletes (and younger non athletes). I hope you're not suggesting that just because you've never fully used your legs before, they will remain operational for a lot longer than those who have chosen to use them.


Your reasons for dismissing Nadal as a potential dominant number 1

1. He hasn't dominated hard courts - Well neither did Roger at the same age. In fact Nadal has won more big hard court tournaments than Roger did at the same age (if we excluded his 2004 exploits...that being the year he turned 23). So what's your point ?

I'm not dismissing him at all, how would i do that when he is already dominating? I'm just saying, the total domination (which is a totally different thing) for years, imo highly unlikely for him.

2 & 3 He has not been consistent in the 2nd half of the year. Neither was Roger until 2004 when he started dominating as a 23 year old. Give Nadal another year. I still don't see your point :shrug: Also he does not need to dominate the US hard court season to be the overall dominant player. If he wins 3 slams in a season, that is enough domination in most people's minds. Roger did it without ever being dominant during the clay season. It can be done as Roger demonstrated.


Yeah, but Roger made it to the final in clay court events almost every time. That's a different story. I agree with you, we have to wait and see. Maybe you're right, maybe not, if i'm correct you can't see the future either.

4. His style of play is demanding....well that's your opinion. Also, so what ? He is very comfortable with his style of play. I think more damaging to him would be an ill adised temptation to try and play like Roger. He is not suited to that kind of play. Also I'm sure you agree that he has made a lot of improvements to his game, so that hope you carry is a dying hope.

I didn't say he would have to play like Roger, not that he could if he wanted to... I don't think it is even debatable that his style of play is more demanding than probably any other player on the tour. About the improvements, i totally agree, Nadal is a totally different player now. And no, i'm not hoping anything like you suggested, you don't know me, please don't write such things. ;)

5. Injuries injuries. That is a very thin argument to make. Anything is possible, but barring any serious injuries, he's here to stay.

No, i'm not talking about serious injuries. Those could happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime. I'm talking about little problems, which may cause a player some trouble, i don't think he can avoid these problems with his style of play, (which is basically the same even with the improvement). It doesn't really matter he's 22 years old, he is in the business what, like 5 years? Don't get me wrong, i want him to be healthy for a long time, i want every player to be healthy, but that's just not possible. One more thing, i don't think Roger has lost a step, or even a tiny bit of athleticism. Anyway, this whole thread is based on conjecture, we have to wait and see. If Nadal can win the U.S Open i will openly admit that there is a strong possibility for him being totally, utterly dominant, just like Roger was. :)

Tom_Bombadil
07-27-2008, 04:26 PM
You never have to take seriusly MTF predictions about Nadal career. Some years ago they were saying Nadal was a moonballer who was never going to: win another slam (after first FO), win Wimbledon, win on hardcourts, be number one, keep the number one for too long, last long at his top, etc. etc.

This is all biased bullshit. Time will tell, as always

Albatros99
07-27-2008, 04:30 PM
The only thing that can help Federer is that Nadal retires. Federer is suffering from a terrible confidence crisis at present. He always thought that he was destined to become the GOAT and is now witnessing how a younger player is taking that goal away from him. The last straw was losing in the Wimbledon final after playing his best match ever against this relentless young pretender who can only get better. Federer may never recover from the blow.

finishingmove
07-27-2008, 04:32 PM
The only thing that can help Federer is that every ATP player retires.

true , true...

rofe
07-27-2008, 04:37 PM
No one. He might as well fire Jose and save some money for the purchase of his next Dubai mansion.

MacTheKnife
07-27-2008, 07:47 PM
Great post, Mac. :hug: :yeah:
It bedazzles me just as much as it does you.

Love that word, "bedazzles. I will no doubt steal it as some points..:rocker2:

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 08:54 PM
Love that word, "bedazzles. I will no doubt steal it as some points..:rocker2:


i like "testicular fortitude".

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 08:57 PM
Love that word, "bedazzles. I will no doubt steal it as some points..:rocker2:

Thanks. :hatoff:

i like "testicular fortitude".

A rather good one, indeed. An attempt to duck away from Wilander sueing for plagiarism? :p

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 09:05 PM
Thanks. :hatoff:



A rather good one, indeed. An attempt to duck away from Wilander sueing for plagiarism? :p


Wilander is a mug.

Allez
07-27-2008, 09:23 PM
thats the point to be noted. also, why the hell would Fed ruin and tarnish his legacy. why whould he want to go from having been so dominant to a nobody that is pushed around by players 10 years younger.

it will also be too much of a mental burden. he will try to exit the sport near the top and not when he has dropped to just a top 10 player.

That's right. I do not see Fed pulling an Agassi and playing challengers and and losing to mugs like Donald Young day in day out. I was a bit shocked by his reaction to Henin's retirement though. He seemed to think it unthinkable to retire at the top. I suspect Nadal's pre-eminance in tennis right now is having him re-evaluate his options. If he's gettinng squeezed by those muscles from Mallorca on a daily basis, eventually something is going to pop. He is already a pigeon, he doesn't want to be a clown. I don't believe he will compete past 30 much less the 10 years he's been talking about.

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 09:34 PM
That's right. I do not see Fed pulling an Agassi and playing challengers and and losing to mugs like Donald Young day in day out. I was a bit shocked by his reaction to Henin's retirement though. He seemed to think it unthinkable to retire at the top. I suspect Nadal's pre-eminance in tennis right now is having him re-evaluate his options. If he's gettinng squeezed by those muscles from Mallorca on a daily basis, eventually something is going to pop. He is already a pigeon, he doesn't want to be a clown. I don't believe he will compete past 30 much less the 10 years he's been talking about.

affirmative. the Clay Monster--the real and true merchant of death on clay and grass--is just tired of being #2. he is going to personally destroy Federer. or anybody else that gets in his way.

in order to make it a decent challenge, he will also start dragging behind a very large dead farm animal on a rope while he plays tennis from now on. some consideration is being given to also have a 176 pound bag of wet cement tied to his back as well.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 09:58 PM
in order to make it a decent challenge, he will also start dragging behind a very large dead farm animal on a rope while he plays tennis from now on. some consideration is being given to also have a 176 pound bag of wet cement tied to his back as well.

Have to give it to you CD, you can be really, really funny... :haha: :yeah:

Clay Death
07-27-2008, 10:01 PM
Have to give it to you CD, you can be really, really funny... :haha: :yeah:


thanks Karin. i will take any compliment i can get at mtf.

bad gambler
07-27-2008, 11:34 PM
Tony Roche

fast_clay
07-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Tony Roche


yes... coach roche is required here... tho... if federer wasnt willing to be steered in the direction that roche wished, esp on clay... then i dunno if roche would go back...

but for sure roche is the man...

star
07-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Didn't Federer go to a sports psychologist for his "selbstvertrauen" issues he spoke so much about at one point? Maybe he can go back and talk it through again. It's a little different this time. I think he's going to snap back and maybe win the USO and certainly at least one indoor tournament. I don't think he'll end the year with Estoril as his sole victory.

Sunset of Age
07-27-2008, 11:54 PM
yes... coach roche is required here... tho... if federer wasnt willing to be steered in the direction that roche wished, esp on clay... then i dunno if roche would go back...

but for sure roche is the man...

No, I'm not buying this at all. If Roche couldn't help out Roger a year ago, why should he be able to do so right now? :awww:

It reminds me of the exact same season last year, when Rafa wasn't doing all too well on HC, and multiple threads and posts appeared on the necessity of Rafa having to fire Tio Toni for the very same reason.

So here we have it: when things aren't going well for a certain player, all the Sidewalk Experts come along to either scream for the existing coach's head, and/or to get back to their earlier one. ;)

If anything, I'd say that the only person who could really help Roger out on his (mental) problems right now, is Peter Carter. So sad that he's already Six Feet Under... :sad:

fast_clay
07-28-2008, 12:02 AM
No, I'm not buying this at all. If Roche couldn't help out Roger a year ago, why should he be able to do so right now? :awww:

It reminds me of the exact same season last year, when Rafa wasn't doing all too well on HC, and multiple threads and posts appeared on the necessity of Rafa having to fire Tio Toni for the very same reason.

So here we have it: when things aren't going well for a certain player, all the Sidewalk Experts come along to either scream for the existing coach's head, and/or to get back to their earlier one. ;)

If anything, I'd say that the only person who could really help Roger out on his (mental) problems right now, is Peter Carter. So sad that he's already Six Feet Under... :sad:

yeah... peter carter was from that generation n a half after roche n co... along with cahill n a few others...

i agree that it wont happen... but, the mentality that carter and roche drove may be seen to be the same.. in fact, thats most likely the reason he sought out roche in the first place... as a continuation or completion of study of what the dutch would term: Totaaltenis... ;)

i truly dont think rog will do anything about it except work through it himself... he has done it before... he has all the tools and is wise and intelligent enough to not forget to trust what has worked for him in the past... a blind faith...

Sunset of Age
07-28-2008, 12:22 AM
in fact, thats most likely the reason he sought out roche in the first place... as a continuation or completion of study of what the dutch would term: Totaaltenis... ;)

Ah, so you know a bit of Dutch? Totaaltennis. I like that. Like Rinus Michels' concept of Totaalvoetbal. :p

i truly dont think rog will do anything about it except work through it himself... he has done it before... he has all the tools and is wise and intelligent enough to not forget to trust what has worked for him in the past... a blind faith...

I feel the urge to agree with you here. He'll have to sort it out all by himself, and it's not like he hasn't been able to do so in the past! But then again, this might well be the biggest slump of his career so far... and the fact that he is indeed a sensitive, emotional fellow, won't make it easier for him. I hope he'll indeed manage to work it all out, as I just can't bear to see him struggling as much as he recently seems to do. Angels Fall FAST, so it seems. :angel:

fast_clay
07-28-2008, 12:35 AM
if you can keep you head while all else about you are losing theirs... or something else in that poem which is supposed to represent the best wimbledon champs...

he's been pretty cool when things have been going right... hopefully he'll remember to keep it together while things are getting tough now... that for me, will be his true mark... simply not losing it and being able to lose in the same way he's been able to win... which he has done so far... he must feel that his record his bigger than the person is actually is... a mad world if he were to think about it too much...

Kom, we gaan narde stade...!

i went out with a dutch girl for a time... and i can say the above line in perffect amsterdam accent... :yeah:

totaaltenis is what i would term the period 1950-1975 in australia... a mentality that matched and suited the attitude of all the players of the time... predominantly attacking...

the dutch have embraced that in football and used the term first... and... the ability to embrace a number of styles confidently...

something that i wish federer had kept following... he couldve been the best serve volley player in the world for one day a year... if he wanted... for me tho... stubborness holds him back...

still f*****g successful tho...

just wouldve liked him to take that french final with a diff plan...

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 02:08 AM
Tony Roche

tiny roche can actually help Nadal more at this point. Nadal does need work on his slice and his volley. both could be a lot better.

Nadal`s return of serve on hard courts sucks as well.

Mimi
07-28-2008, 02:10 AM
the Great Pete Sampras :cool:

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 02:20 AM
the Great Pete Sampras :cool:

i am throwing my name in the hat. i can help the great Roger Federer.

i would start by dispensing both both higueras and Mirka. both need to be fired at once. we will tell him that to beat Nadal, he would have to become Nadal type of player. next would be rapid testicular transplant. nothing less than the testicles of a donkey would do.

i would then take him straight to uncle tony for a hefty price (say around $30 mill). tony and i would then conspire to teach him the basics of massive and lethal topspin. once his arm falls off, which should take about a week, our job will be done.

sheeter
07-28-2008, 02:22 AM
Does he need that much help? if any other player made a semi final and two finals, it would be a good year for them.
Also, his fitness is underated. He has some crazy sessions in dubai from what I've heard, and any guy who can hand with Nadal for five sets is no slouch.

Mimi
07-28-2008, 03:18 AM
i doubt roger will ever leave Mirka, just for a second, they are like twins :lol:
i am throwing my name in the hat. i can help the great Roger Federer.

i would start by dispensing both both higueras and Mirka. both need to be fired at once. we will tell him that to beat Nadal, he would have to become Nadal type of player. next would be rapid testicular transplant. nothing less than the testicles of a donkey would do.

i would then take him straight to uncle tony for a hefty price (say around $30 mill). tony and i would then conspire to teach him the basics of massive and lethal topspin. once his arm falls off, which should take about a week, our job will be done.

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 03:20 AM
Does he need that much help? if any other player made a semi final and two finals, it would be a good year for them.
Also, his fitness is underated. He has some crazy sessions in dubai from what I've heard, and any guy who can hand with Nadal for five sets is no slouch.


he is in denial. it happens to everyone once they lose some of their magic.

he is also surrounded by "yes" people.

peterparker
07-28-2008, 04:43 AM
we will tell him that to beat Nadal, he would have to become Nadal type of player. next would be rapid testicular transplant. nothing less than the testicles of a donkey would do.



lol :)

peterparker
07-28-2008, 04:44 AM
tiny roche can actually help Nadal more at this point. Nadal does need work on his slice and his volley. both could be a lot better.

Nadal`s return of serve on hard courts sucks as well.

great video of roche and laver on youtube.

JolánGagó
07-28-2008, 04:50 AM
i am throwing my name in the hat. i can help the great Roger Federer.

i would start by dispensing both both higueras and Mirka. both need to be fired at once. we will tell him that to beat Nadal, he would have to become Nadal type of player. next would be rapid testicular transplant. nothing less than the testicles of a donkey would do.

i would then take him straight to uncle tony for a hefty price (say around $30 mill). tony and i would then conspire to teach him the basics of massive and lethal topspin. once his arm falls off, which should take about a week, our job will be done.

For Christ's sake :lol:

Not into ass-licking but man, you're seriously funny. How could someone even think of banning you escapes my limited understanding capabilities.

schorsch
07-28-2008, 08:01 AM
Didn't Federer go to a sports psychologist for his "selbstvertrauen" issues he spoke so much about at one point? Maybe he can go back and talk it through again. It's a little different this time. I think he's going to snap back and maybe win the USO and certainly at least one indoor tournament. I don't think he'll end the year with Estoril as his sole victory.

he doesnt have to... he won halle as well :lol:

avocadoe
07-28-2008, 09:12 AM
Didn't Federer go to a sports psychologist for his "selbstvertrauen" issues he spoke so much about at one point? Maybe he can go back and talk it through again. It's a little different this time. I think he's going to snap back and maybe win the USO and certainly at least one indoor tournament. I don't think he'll end the year with Estoril as his sole victory.

I remember the issues but not the psychologist. My tennis coach says a lot more players employ them than is publicly known. I hope he does talk to someone. I'm available:):wavey:

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 01:33 PM
For Christ's sake :lol:

Not into ass-licking but man, you're seriously funny. How could someone even think of banning you escapes my limited understanding capabilities.

Fed gets to dance again in Cincy. his draw is reSICKulously easy (just invented this word). lets see if he can make the most of it.

akki7147
07-28-2008, 01:58 PM
if he wants to retain his name and fame he can do this, either by winning all the matches against nadal or better leave tennis all together.

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 02:01 PM
if he wants to retain his name and fame he can do this, either by winning all the matches against nadal or better leave tennis all together.

check this article out:

Federer facing career adversity for first timeFriday, July 25, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry


Posted by Peter Bodo, TENNIS.com

For nearly three critical years, only one thing has stood between Roger Federer and a degree of domination previously unseen in the game of tennis. That has been Rafael Nadal. This is, in and of itself, extraordinary: The man who may wind up acknowledged as the popular choice as the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) can't consistently beat one guy in his own era.



But now there might be another thing standing in Federer's drive to shatter what significant records remain to be broken: career fatigue. In the long run, Nadal's emergence as Federer's rival in 2005 might have bought Pete Sampras, Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg and other all-time greats just the breathing room they need to avoid being flung into Federer's shadow. Nadal has held off Federer just often enough, and long enough, to help pitch him into what might be the definitive crisis of his career.


Federer fans will recoil at the word "crisis." After all, but for the excruciatingly close loss to Nadal at Wimbledon, it would be business as usual -- Federer conceding Nadal the red clay while using Wimbledon and the U.S. Open to continue his assault on Pete Sampras' record of 14 Grand Slam singles titles (Federer has 12). But the Swiss star's listless loss Wednesday in Toronto suggests that we are no longer doing business as usual.



A number of frustrations have closed on The Mighty Fed at one time, suggesting that the recent Wimbledon final was not just an epic for the ages, but perhaps a watershed moment in two careers (Federer's and Nadal's) and one rivalry (theirs). If you're familiar with pop lingo, Wimbledon might be where Federer "jumped the shark."


For one thing, Federer will be 27 soon, and that's right around the time that even great players discover that winning majors can suddenly appear as difficult as it once seemed natural, if not exactly easy. It's the period when they turn a little sour about various aspects of their jobs: dealing with the press, making good on their commitments (how many danged times do I have to win Cincinnati, anyway?), the machinations of peers counting the days until traces of blood appear in the water, signaling the beginning of a feeding frenzy.



This Wimbledon-Toronto one-two punch has drastically affected Federer's chances to finish No. 1 for a fifth consecutive year (even Federer die-hards are hard-pressed to rate his chances as greater than 25 percent). A tumble from the top spot would put the kibosh on one significant record Federer is chasing -- Sampras' six consecutive years at No. 1. It also seriously damages his future prospects of finishing the year No. 1 as often as did Sampras.



The all-time Grand Slam singles title record is still in Federer's sights, but the three more he needs will be the three toughest he's ever had to earn. The speed at which his march to immortality is turning from seeming cakewalk to bitter, grungy, thankless slog is striking, and turning a deaf ear to his doubters is high on his to-do list.



But this next year or two also embodies a great opportunity, because the one thing Federer has yet to triumph over in his career is serious adversity. If he doesn't rally and produce the classic Act III of a career champ (proving all the naysayers wrong), he'll be described less as a great and inspirational competitor than as a gifted and prolific talent who enjoyed one of the most dizzying career rides ever taken in the game.



The job won't be easy -- those are shark-infested waters out there.

JolánGagó
07-28-2008, 02:07 PM
The job won't be easy -- those are shark-infested waters out there.

So true. Uncle Toni and his syringes are far most dangerous than a pack of hungry Great Whites in a club swimming pool.

ZakMcCrack
07-28-2008, 02:58 PM
[...]The speed at which his march to immortality is turning from seeming cakewalk to bitter, grungy, thankless slog is striking, and turning a deaf ear to his doubters is high on his to-do list[...]

Surely, the mass media know how to catalyze and are actually doing a great job as on that...therefore I find it slightly peculiar that Mister Bodo himself, as an approved journalist, is struck by the aforementioned "speed". However, I cannot accustom myself to the highly recurrent age-argument since Fed's still only 26 years old - although almost 27 - and I would even attach more weight to the illness he has had at the turn of the year and the effects induced by it. I mean, an athlete who does endurance sports can basically throw the whole season overboard when caught by mononucleosis...but I guess most of you guys seem to be weary of this mention, hum? :wavey:

Sunset of Age
07-28-2008, 03:43 PM
^^ Great post Zak. Fantastic imitation of Mr. Bozo's superfluously 'floral' style of writing, which truly makes me BARF. :lol:

[...]I mean, an athlete who does endurance sports can basically throw the whole season overboard when caught by mononucleosis...but I guess most of you guys seem to be weary of this mention, hum? :wavey:

Don't you know by now? It was only an excuse... even if the guy breaks a leg, his haters will still maintain that he's only faking it. ;)

Julesj
07-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Federer needs to hire someone who will give him a kick up the arse, not pander to him and work on his game physically and mentally.

Denial ain't just a river in egypt........

gogogirl
07-28-2008, 03:58 PM
All,

Hey Clay Death. You're back! Good for you.

Roger needs to play within himself again. He seems to be making the wrong shot selection, and he's rushing on some shots. He's not executing the things he already knows and used to perfect - and he is hitting and setting up for shots off balance. His balance and equilibrium is all off center in my estimation. When he plays Rafa, one can really see some of the aforementioned missteps.

I think he needs to watch some of his old matches. He also might benefit from the S&V on some points, and the chip and charge on others. Over all though, I think he just needs to slow it down some and execute the way he knows he can, and he needs to think before he leaps in some instances.

For the most part, I think the old Roger is still in there somewhere, but like some of us have mentioned and inferred before, he is getting to look like too many ordinary players. He will soon be a Tier 2 player if this keeps up. Who would have bet money that he wouldn't have a MS title this year as of yet, and whisper, that he just might not get one? Wow! I knew he'd lose more year after year - but not like this.

Roger could use w/some advice more than a coach to me. He could talk to Pete and/or someone like him - who values the serve and the charging of the net. Again, he knows what to do, but he just isn't executing and getting the job done. If he doesn't go back to HIS own fundamentals, basics and standards, he'll fall into the rut of continuing to look and act like the players on a level below the toppers.

"WAKE ALL THE WAY UP - ROGER" "GET IT TOGETHER"

Eden
07-28-2008, 04:02 PM
there is no way he can dominate again the way he has for the last 4 years.

I doubt anyone who has followed tennis not since yesterday expected that Federer's run would last forever and that he could repeat what he did during the last year's.

Clay Monster will likely take over for a couple of years and by then Fed will be looking at 30.

I think there's a far more probability that we will see a switching of the #1 ranking between Rafa and Novak. Don't forget him when you are expecting a dominance of Nadal ;) You might have already written off the "old" Federer, but Djokovic is still young and has his career still ahead of him.


it gets harder for him going forward, not easier.

That's only natural, when you are already on the tour for some years and the competition is getting stronger :)

Sebby
07-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Federer needs to hire someone who will give him a kick up the arse, not pander to him and work on his game physically and mentally.

Denial ain't just a river in egypt........

The sad thing is : I really doubt Federer will accept to have his ass kicked by a coach.

Allez
07-28-2008, 06:29 PM
check this article out:

Federer facing career adversity for first timeFriday, July 25, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry


Posted by Peter Bodo, TENNIS.com

For nearly three critical years, only one thing has stood between Roger Federer and a degree of domination previously unseen in the game of tennis. That has been Rafael Nadal. This is, in and of itself, extraordinary: The man who may wind up acknowledged as the popular choice as the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) can't consistently beat one guy in his own era.



But now there might be another thing standing in Federer's drive to shatter what significant records remain to be broken: career fatigue. In the long run, Nadal's emergence as Federer's rival in 2005 might have bought Pete Sampras, Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg and other all-time greats just the breathing room they need to avoid being flung into Federer's shadow. Nadal has held off Federer just often enough, and long enough, to help pitch him into what might be the definitive crisis of his career.


Federer fans will recoil at the word "crisis." After all, but for the excruciatingly close loss to Nadal at Wimbledon, it would be business as usual -- Federer conceding Nadal the red clay while using Wimbledon and the U.S. Open to continue his assault on Pete Sampras' record of 14 Grand Slam singles titles (Federer has 12). But the Swiss star's listless loss Wednesday in Toronto suggests that we are no longer doing business as usual.



A number of frustrations have closed on The Mighty Fed at one time, suggesting that the recent Wimbledon final was not just an epic for the ages, but perhaps a watershed moment in two careers (Federer's and Nadal's) and one rivalry (theirs). If you're familiar with pop lingo, Wimbledon might be where Federer "jumped the shark."


For one thing, Federer will be 27 soon, and that's right around the time that even great players discover that winning majors can suddenly appear as difficult as it once seemed natural, if not exactly easy. It's the period when they turn a little sour about various aspects of their jobs: dealing with the press, making good on their commitments (how many danged times do I have to win Cincinnati, anyway?), the machinations of peers counting the days until traces of blood appear in the water, signaling the beginning of a feeding frenzy.



This Wimbledon-Toronto one-two punch has drastically affected Federer's chances to finish No. 1 for a fifth consecutive year (even Federer die-hards are hard-pressed to rate his chances as greater than 25 percent). A tumble from the top spot would put the kibosh on one significant record Federer is chasing -- Sampras' six consecutive years at No. 1. It also seriously damages his future prospects of finishing the year No. 1 as often as did Sampras.



The all-time Grand Slam singles title record is still in Federer's sights, but the three more he needs will be the three toughest he's ever had to earn. The speed at which his march to immortality is turning from seeming cakewalk to bitter, grungy, thankless slog is striking, and turning a deaf ear to his doubters is high on his to-do list.



But this next year or two also embodies a great opportunity, because the one thing Federer has yet to triumph over in his career is serious adversity. If he doesn't rally and produce the classic Act III of a career champ (proving all the naysayers wrong), he'll be described less as a great and inspirational competitor than as a gifted and prolific talent who enjoyed one of the most dizzying career rides ever taken in the game.



The job won't be easy -- those are shark-infested waters out there.

Thanks for that.:lol: Bodo loves drama :rolleyes:

Fedex
07-28-2008, 10:41 PM
I believe there is still a chance he can salvage 2008. He simply has to find a way to win the U.S. Open. He will have to change a few things. He desperatly needs a new paradigm and he must engage in this new thinking at once. A quick and fast overhaul of the mental appratus, if you will.

You will note that he actually looks like a beaten man now. His interviews suggest nothing if they dont suggest that he constantly finds himself in denial these days. Further, he continues to talk as if he really is still the best in the world. The element of presssure is keeping him down. He has to find a way to snap out of this.

here is my advice and input:

1. First and foremost, get rid of Higueras at once and enlist Killer Cahill and Sampras for the next 3 months. They do not have to be present at his matches as they are busy but they can help.

2. Hit the gym and get stronger. There has never been a better time to take his fitness higher than it is now. It wont allow him to regain a little step he has lost but at least he can go all out in his matches and it is quite intimidating for the opposition.

3. Skip the Olympics and focus on the last slam of 2008.

4. Become more of an attacking player than he has ever been before. This is where better fitness and additional physical strength will come in handy. He has the best serve on the planet and he is the best there is at the net. Why not apply constant heat and pressure.

Having lost a little step, he cant really deal with the likes of Nadal and Djokovic off the ground. Even Simon beat him off the ground the other day. Newer approach is needed at once so the serve has to get bigger and better than it already is.

I dont mean play like Sampras but certainly start mixing it up like 40% or so. That means follow the serve to the net around 40% of the time but disaguise it well. This applies to quiker courts. Clay is lost forever so he can forget about clay.

3. New paradigm. Learn to deal with being no longer the best player in the world. It takes the pressure off instantly. He can then quietly work to try to win another slam or 2.

This means he must kill this constant obsession with being #1 instantly. It is just weighing him down now. Play without pressure and play with reckless abandon. He should know by now-- deep inside-- that he still has a fairly formidable game.

Thoughts? Comments? Smart remarks? Insults? Can you help add to this list? What would you do?

I actually agree with most of the points you made in this post, CD. Good post overall.

Fedex
07-28-2008, 10:44 PM
check this article out:

Federer facing career adversity for first timeFriday, July 25, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry


Posted by Peter Bodo, TENNIS.com

For nearly three critical years, only one thing has stood between Roger Federer and a degree of domination previously unseen in the game of tennis. That has been Rafael Nadal. This is, in and of itself, extraordinary: The man who may wind up acknowledged as the popular choice as the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) can't consistently beat one guy in his own era.



But now there might be another thing standing in Federer's drive to shatter what significant records remain to be broken: career fatigue. In the long run, Nadal's emergence as Federer's rival in 2005 might have bought Pete Sampras, Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg and other all-time greats just the breathing room they need to avoid being flung into Federer's shadow. Nadal has held off Federer just often enough, and long enough, to help pitch him into what might be the definitive crisis of his career.


Federer fans will recoil at the word "crisis." After all, but for the excruciatingly close loss to Nadal at Wimbledon, it would be business as usual -- Federer conceding Nadal the red clay while using Wimbledon and the U.S. Open to continue his assault on Pete Sampras' record of 14 Grand Slam singles titles (Federer has 12). But the Swiss star's listless loss Wednesday in Toronto suggests that we are no longer doing business as usual.



A number of frustrations have closed on The Mighty Fed at one time, suggesting that the recent Wimbledon final was not just an epic for the ages, but perhaps a watershed moment in two careers (Federer's and Nadal's) and one rivalry (theirs). If you're familiar with pop lingo, Wimbledon might be where Federer "jumped the shark."


For one thing, Federer will be 27 soon, and that's right around the time that even great players discover that winning majors can suddenly appear as difficult as it once seemed natural, if not exactly easy. It's the period when they turn a little sour about various aspects of their jobs: dealing with the press, making good on their commitments (how many danged times do I have to win Cincinnati, anyway?), the machinations of peers counting the days until traces of blood appear in the water, signaling the beginning of a feeding frenzy.



This Wimbledon-Toronto one-two punch has drastically affected Federer's chances to finish No. 1 for a fifth consecutive year (even Federer die-hards are hard-pressed to rate his chances as greater than 25 percent). A tumble from the top spot would put the kibosh on one significant record Federer is chasing -- Sampras' six consecutive years at No. 1. It also seriously damages his future prospects of finishing the year No. 1 as often as did Sampras.



The all-time Grand Slam singles title record is still in Federer's sights, but the three more he needs will be the three toughest he's ever had to earn. The speed at which his march to immortality is turning from seeming cakewalk to bitter, grungy, thankless slog is striking, and turning a deaf ear to his doubters is high on his to-do list.



But this next year or two also embodies a great opportunity, because the one thing Federer has yet to triumph over in his career is serious adversity. If he doesn't rally and produce the classic Act III of a career champ (proving all the naysayers wrong), he'll be described less as a great and inspirational competitor than as a gifted and prolific talent who enjoyed one of the most dizzying career rides ever taken in the game.



The job won't be easy -- those are shark-infested waters out there.

Interesting read, CD. A bit over the top and dramatic, but I still enjoyed the article.

ranaldo
07-28-2008, 10:55 PM
The situation is worse than it appears. Roger's in DENIAL. He's not fit, doesn't look like he's done all the boring physical conditioning out there ( look at his backhands !!). The number of unforced errors is quite scary. I also much prefer the way he played in 2005-2006. Not coming much to net, only when necessary. This is 2008: when you attack the net and your opponent is not off balance, he's the one in position to win the point, not the volleyer. That's something a lot of commentators don't even understand.

I think the key point is if someone tells him bluntly (Paganini) "Roger you're out of shape, you couldn't hit a forehand inbounds even if the tennis court were the size of a football field..."
Sure he's getting old but Simon did nothing special out there, neither did Fish. Roger was THAT bad...
I have no idea if he's gonna bounce back but if it's not this year, it probably won't happen.

My idea : get Cahill to work with you and earn back the baseline consistency and tactical rigor. You don't need to serve and volley : that's bullshit, it doesn't win you enough points on a consistent basis. Cutting down the unforced errors without being passive should help.

MIMIC
07-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Seems to me that it's just a lack of confidence. Once someone is on the verge of beating him, he seems to panic.

Only HE can make that mental change to dig deep to find that champion spirit within him.

Clay Death
07-28-2008, 11:51 PM
Interesting read, CD. A bit over the top and dramatic, but I still enjoyed the article.


i think the mental burden is the catalyst. he finally has somebody he cant deal with.

he had been in denial and not willing to fully recognize Nadal`s genius.

the race against time is not helping either. he is 27 in a few days. they all lose a tiny step around that age.

Sunset of Age
07-29-2008, 12:04 AM
ihe had been in denial and not willing to fully recognize Nadal`s genius.

That's nonsense, CD. Roger has been claiming for over two years now that he expects Rafa to be his follow-up as a #1. He's NEVER said that about anyone else, and moreover, even when all the talk was suddenly about Djoko (remember him? :p), he still maintained that if there was anyone being his greatest threat, it was Rafa.

It was only a matter of time for his words to come true, and we're about to witness it soon.

And don't think Roger is in denial about anything... he's just acting wisely not to show too much of his doubts.

fast_clay
07-29-2008, 12:06 AM
i think federer was happy just to cruise his way to history... and, its not hard to fly like an eagle when you're surrounded by geese... i am glad he has hit a speed bump here before he has reached it... for all the federer nuthuggers, deep down you should be happy he has hit tough times, for without a bit of hardship or rivalries, he reign would forever have been opened to question... he has said he hasnt appreciated the rivalry with nadal...

now he's forced to...

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 12:11 AM
i think federer was happy just to cruise his way to history... and, its not hard to fly like an eagle when you're surrounded by geese... i am glad he has hit a speed bump here before he has reached it... for all the federer nuthuggers, deep down you should be happy he has hit tough times, for without a bit of hardship or rivalries, he reign would forever have been opened to question... he has said he hasnt appreciated the rivalry with nadal...

now he's forced to...

affirmative. he said after the Roland Garros Massacre that Nadal is not the player you want to face after a match like that.

its now fully sinking in and it has become a staggering mental burden.

drop in ranking and reduced expectations is step one to achieving higher truth and knowledge. he then has to reinvent himself on the court.

there is nobody on the planet who can deal with the ultimate doomsday stroking machine (also known as the clay monster) off the ground now.

fast_clay
07-29-2008, 12:12 AM
That's nonsense, CD. Roger has been claiming for over two years now that he expects Rafa to be his follow-up as a #1. He's NEVER said that about anyone else, and moreover, even when all the talk was suddenly about Djoko (remember him? :p), he still maintained that if there was anyone being his greatest threat, it was Rafa.

It was only a matter of time for his words to come true, and we're about to witness it soon.

And don't think Roger is in denial about anything... he's just acting wisely not to show too much of his doubts.


i remember federer was asked if nadal was weak on hard courts and federer said: 'if someone is saying nadal cant play on hardcourts then they dont know tennis.' or something to that effect

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 12:19 AM
i remember federer was asked if nadal was weak on hard courts and federer said: 'if someone is saying nadal cant play on hardcourts then they dont know tennis.' or something to that effect


Fed also said just before the tournament-- in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS-- that Nadal was the 3rd best on hard courts.

thats denial and it also pisses off Nadal who knows he is a monster force on any surface now if he is not tired, spent, and injured.

fast_clay
07-29-2008, 12:44 AM
Fed also said just before the tournament-- in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS-- that Nadal was the 3rd best on hard courts.

thats denial and it also pisses off Nadal who knows he is a monster force on any surface now if he is not tired, spent, and injured.

yeah... if fed said this and it wasnt sh!te reporting... then, he's probably losing a part of that gracious nature that has served him so well when on top...

if it is in feds makeup to cast nadal off in the season immediately after he has been dished up a bagel on clay and a loss on grass, then, maybe it is possible to say that fed has been mentally exposed... to personally rank players, and to rank them on a surface may serve to fire nadal up for sure...

it may be enough simply to concede that nadal is the form player going in to the hard season... this to me doesnt say #1 or says someone else is favourite... it simply means... nadal is the form player going into the hard season... no more, no less... and its not a word of a lie either...

it must be tough when you are not ready to step down off the throne... especially when you consider your rival plays an inferior brand of tennis...

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 12:58 AM
yeah... if fed said this and it wasnt sh!te reporting... then, he's probably losing a part of that gracious nature that has served him so well when on top...

if it is in feds makeup to cast nadal off in the season immediately after he has been dished up a bagel on clay and a loss on grass, then, maybe it is possible to say that fed has been mentally exposed... to personally rank players, and to rank them on a surface may serve to fire nadal up for sure...

it may be enough simply to concede that nadal is the form player going in to the hard season... this to me doesnt say #1 or says someone else is favourite... it simply means... nadal is the form player going into the hard season... no more, no less... and its not a word of a lie either...

it must be tough when you are not ready to step down off the throne... especially when you consider your rival plays an inferior brand of tennis...

affirmative. until Fed fully embraces the new imperatives and the new reality and then decides to do something about it, he will continue to be frozen.

talk is just talk. its cheap. Nadal is gracious and never says anything but kind word about others but deep inside, there has never been a more proud and more determined warrior.

Fed needs to choose his words carefully.

Sunset of Age
07-29-2008, 01:30 AM
i remember federer was asked if nadal was weak on hard courts and federer said: 'if someone is saying nadal cant play on hardcourts then they dont know tennis.' or something to that effect

That quote is more than two years old already...

Fed also said just before the tournament-- in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS-- that Nadal was the 3rd best on hard courts.

thats denial and it also pisses off Nadal who knows he is a monster force on any surface now if he is not tired, spent, and injured.

No, you both are twisting his words. He was ASKED who he considered the best players on HC, and of course, with last year's results in mind, he thought Djoko to be the second best player after himself, but he instantly added that he thought Nadal would probably be a force, 'perhaps the 3rd best player' as well. Seeing as this interview was held before any ball on HC had been played, it's more a compliment to Rafa than anything else, as many others had most probably not even mentioned his name, with Rafa's achievements on the US HC courts the past few years in mind...

RogerFan82
07-29-2008, 01:43 AM
Fed has become too stubborn to change his game and play a bit more conservative this year, especially when he is shanking a lot of FHs . He continues to go for broke, when a smarter strategy would be to mix the pace of his shots and get into a few rallies. The way he played against Simon, was exactly the way he played against Ramirez hidalgo at MC. He was lucky to escape that day, when RRH choked, while Giles took advantage of Fed's UEs.

Hopefully Higeuras or someone else in his team, can force him to reconsider his strategy for the rest of the season.

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 03:17 AM
Fed has become too stubborn to change his game and play a bit more conservative this year, especially when he is shanking a lot of FHs . He continues to go for broke, when a smarter strategy would be to mix the pace of his shots and get into a few rallies. The way he played against Simon, was exactly the way he played against Ramirez hidalgo at MC. He was lucky to escape that day, when RRH choked, while Giles took advantage of Fed's UEs.

Hopefully Higeuras or someone else in his team, can force him to reconsider his strategy for the rest of the season.


he is not the only one. Becker was plenty resistant to change. there are countless other examples.

CyBorg
07-29-2008, 03:26 AM
Unless Roger gets his serve back he will continue to struggle. People talk about his forehand and backhand, but those are failing, because his confidence is failing. Roger was never the kind of guy to rely entirely on winning rallies. His serve was always there to get him out of trouble. Until this year.

If the serve comes back, the forehand and backhand will too.

bad gambler
07-29-2008, 03:31 AM
Fed also said just before the tournament-- in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS-- that Nadal was the 3rd best on hard courts.

thats denial and it also pisses off Nadal who knows he is a monster force on any surface now if he is not tired, spent, and injured.

Even if he did say before Toronto what was wrong with it? Hard to argue that Djokovic and Federer are not the top 2 HC players in the world based on the last 12 months.

fast_clay
07-29-2008, 03:31 AM
That quote is more than two years old already...


yes... i understand... it was a 'once upon a time' quote... and i dont think fed's opinion would have lowered any either... if he was being honest...

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 01:41 PM
Unless Roger gets his serve back he will continue to struggle. People talk about his forehand and backhand, but those are failing, because his confidence is failing. Roger was never the kind of guy to rely entirely on winning rallies. His serve was always there to get him out of trouble. Until this year.

If the serve comes back, the forehand and backhand will too.


he did say after his loss at Toronto that he just couldnt get much mileage out of his serve.

i am not sure if he was complaining about the slow hard courts or what.

he said something similar after Nalby beat him at Madrid Masters (2007). he said that the courts were not fast enough. and then the following week he lost to Nalby again at Paris Masters (2007). i guess those courts were too fast.

bottom line is that he does have a fairly high degree of reliance on his big serve. it has produced serious dividends on the Wimby grass and on the hard courts. its a big weapon so why not take advantage of it.

does anybody know the stats on his serve against Simon in Toronto? did he serve at less than 50% or what?

he has to serve around 65%-70% or better in order to take full advantage of that big serve.

Allez
07-29-2008, 04:55 PM
Even if he did say before Toronto what was wrong with it? Hard to argue that Djokovic and Federer are not the top 2 HC players in the world based on the last 12 months.

Perhaps he should have based his assessment on this years results, in which case, of the three players...

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Federer

Pfloyd
07-29-2008, 05:01 PM
This thread would'nt be here had he won Wimbledon, which was quite a close match btw.

Last year was better for him, yes, but he also lost more matches than his usual.

Allez
07-29-2008, 05:16 PM
i think federer was happy just to cruise his way to history... and, its not hard to fly like an eagle when you're surrounded by geese... i am glad he has hit a speed bump here before he has reached it... for all the federer nuthuggers, deep down you should be happy he has hit tough times, for without a bit of hardship or rivalries, he reign would forever have been opened to question... he has said he hasnt appreciated the rivalry with nadal...

now he's forced to...

Eh...unless he can start beating Nadal on a regular basis his reign will forever be open to question, so why should Fed fans be happy that he is being given a whipping ? Had he won just one French Open against Nadal (2006), then perhaps that statement might hold true. As it is, as Bodo says how can he be considered a GOAT when he is getting milked by a player in his generation day in day out ? By the time Nadal is done with him there'll be nothing left for Mirka :o No good can come out of Nadal's dominance over Federer except for Nadal. Fed does not benefit from this. It diminishes him.

Clay Death
07-29-2008, 05:17 PM
Perhaps he should have based his assessment on this years results, in which case, of the three players...

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Federer


he also said just before that Toronto Masters that he was still #1. everything he says points to being in denial and not embracing the new imperatives.

he may also have pissed off Nadal by saying that Nadal is #3 on hard courts at best. its too bloody clear that what Nadal is accomplishing is quite historical.

he is winning on all surfaces and he is not exactly beating clowns in the process. he is beating the best out there.

i can help Fed but he has to start reading MTF.

finishingmove
07-29-2008, 05:19 PM
i can help Fed but he has to start reading MTF.

this will become a classic

Allez
07-29-2008, 05:26 PM
he also said just before that Toronto Masters that he was still #1. everything he says points to being in denial and not embracing the new imperatives.

he may also have pissed off Nadal by saying that Nadal is #3 on hard courts at best. its too bloody clear that what Nadal is accomplishing is quite historical.

he is winning on all surfaces and he is not exactly beating clowns in the process. he is beating the best out there.

i can help Fed but he has to start reading MTF.

He is getting very good at pissing people off. He once publicly dismissed Nadal as a one dimensional clay mug. Nadal went on to own him. Not satisfied, he went on a rant against Djokovic calling him a "faker" and giving more credit to people like Gasquet and being generally dismissive of the Joker's ambitions to be No.1. Well the joke was on him at this year's Australian Open when the Serbian laughed his way past him to win his first Major. I think on your list of things to do, you should add

10. Stop pissing people off!

and I say this as a fan of Roger :D

Sebby
07-29-2008, 05:37 PM
this will become a classic

yep, someone have to put this in his sig :rocker:

TennisLegend
07-29-2008, 10:06 PM
Have we seen the end and decline of Federer or will he bounce back next year and dominant men's tennis once again? I think clay is long gone for any success but it just feels so sad to see Federer playing like he is at the moment. Does he need a new and stable coach, if so who is the best to pick at the minute?

Sunset of Age
07-29-2008, 10:07 PM
^^ :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

MacTheKnife
07-29-2008, 10:13 PM
Have we seen the end and decline of Federer or will he bounce back next year and dominant men's tennis once again? I think clay is long gone for any success but it just feels so sad to see Federer playing like he is at the moment. Does he need a new and stable coach, if so who is the best to pick at the minute?

Are you copying and pasting this into every thread ??? :confused:

Sebby
07-29-2008, 10:14 PM
Does he need a new and stable coach, if so who is the best to pick at the minute?

IMO Darren Cahill or Paul Annacone and Gill Reyes as a physical coach.

Guy Haines
07-29-2008, 10:57 PM
Robby Ginepri can help him -- and just did.

Just watch -- he'll win at least a few matches, at the very least until the semifinals.

In the long run? There's not enough time in the day to detail what Federer needs to do to break Sampras's record.

He should set his sights on that at the very least and give #1 a rest, because he isn't going to be #1 anytime soon after he loses it.

Clay Death
07-30-2008, 02:05 AM
He is getting very good at pissing people off. He once publicly dismissed Nadal as a one dimensional clay mug. Nadal went on to own him. Not satisfied, he went on a rant against Djokovic calling him a "faker" and giving more credit to people like Gasquet and being generally dismissive of the Joker's ambitions to be No.1. Well the joke was on him at this year's Australian Open when the Serbian laughed his way past him to win his first Major. I think on your list of things to do, you should add

10. Stop pissing people off!

and I say this as a fan of Roger :D

affirmative. he must choose his words very carefully. they can come back to haunt him.

Ginepri should have closed his account today. this Federer is quite vulnerable. he is running around telling anybody that would listen that he is still #1.

Clay Death
07-30-2008, 02:07 AM
IMO Darren Cahill or Paul Annacone and Gill Reyes as a physical coach.


**brad gilbert
**killer cahill
**agassi and gil reyes
**sampras

all of them can be employed in some sort of advisory capacity. higueras must go. he has outlived his use.

Aurora
07-31-2008, 07:31 AM
perhaps the question isn't who, but what?
According to an article on tennis.com: an new, bigger racquet as a slightly larger sweet spot would give him some more margin for error Stick Shift: Time for Federer to rethink his racquet?

http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Editorial/General/2008_07_29_Federer_article.jpg
Photos © Julian Finney/Getty Images
Forget about tactics, strokes and psychology, the solution to Roger Federer’s woes could lie right in his hands. Here’s the case for why Federer should change from a mid to a midplus racquet frame.
By Miguel Seabra
Six years ago, a young prospect named Roger Federer took a small 5-inch step that ended up being a giant leap in his career. Now, after a dozen major titles and 234 weeks at No. 1, it may be time for another 5-inch step – one that would better equip him to face nemesis Rafael Nadal and make the most out of the second phase of his celebrated career.
No radical changes are needed, just a small but difficult one: stop using the smallest racquet frame on tour, even though it’s the one that has guided him to 12 Grand Slam titles. Federer's racquet is extremely demanding because the tiny sweet spot affords very little margin for error, and a more forgiving stick could allow him to swing a little more freely and be a confidence booster.

BIG HEADS
• The first player to win a Grand Slam title with a composite midsize racquet was Mats Wilander at the French Open in 1982 (Rossignol F200 Carbon)
• The first player to win a Grand Slam title with an oversized racquet was Michael Chang at the French Open in 1989 (Prince Graphite 110)

A GIANT 5-INCH LEAP
Back in the spring of 2002, Roger Federer felt his game was stagnating and he was shanking too many balls. He had been playing with the iconic but rather small 1984 Pro Staff model, one of the winningest frames in tennis history. With only subtle updates made over a decade and a half, the racquet with an 85 square-inch head had been used by champions such as Chris Evert, Stefan Edberg, Pete Sampras and Jim Courier.The young Swiss had adopted the Pro Staff – used by his idols Edberg and Sampras – in the early 1990s, becoming junior world champion with it in 1998. But his game was different from his heroes’ – he was hitting his forehand with a lot more topspin than Sampras’s flat drives.
Watching Roger Federer play in his 1998 junior Wimbledon win and taking a closer look at him during a 1999 loss to Spain’s Joan Balcells in the first round of a Challenger in Espinho, Portugal, it was obvious the kid could play. His game flowed on the court and his classic style was already quite attractive, even if his tremendous racquet acceleration created the occasional mishit.
Federer’s transition to the pro tour was fairly rapid, and by the end of 2001 he was closing in on the top 10. But despite a landmark victory over Pete Sampras at Wimbledon, he had yet to make it past the quarterfinal of a Grand Slam. The following spring, he made a bold decision right in the middle of the clay court season – switching to a 90 square-inch version of the Pro Staff. The larger sweet spot allowed him to hit fewer balls off the frame and reduce his unforced errors.
The results were almost immediate. In his second tournament with the new racquet, he won Hamburg for his first Masters Series title, producing a scintillating performance in the final against then-No. 4 Marat Safin and declaring it “the best game of my life.”
The following year he became Wimbledon champion and soon afterwards started an unparalleled run at the top of the rankings, seducing everyone with his smooth technique and exquisite timing.
There was still the occasional shanked shot, of course, particularly when he was trying to impart 4,400 rpm on his topspin forehand. After all, even with the 90 square-inch head, he was still playing with the smallest stick on the tour. Other Wilson players currently on the tour choose midsize versions between 93 and 98 square inches, and the average size of the racquets on tour is leaning towards 100 square inches.
Federer’s racquet, now called the Wilson KFactor KSix-One Tour 90, has barely changed since.
At the Australian Open, I asked him about whether he would consider making a switch. The question elicited a negative response, even though he spoke positively about his earlier change.
“No, I've always been very happy,” said Federer. “I never really tried a bigger head-size racquet. I don't think it would maybe help me much.
“I switched from 85 to 90 back in 2002 just before I won Hamburg. That was for me a big move because I was really shanking a lot of balls. Then I changed to a 90. I asked Wilson to make something special for me. Yeah, I mean, it's a great racquet for me.
“Funny, I wanted to play with the racquet of Sampras, now Sampras is playing with the racquet of me,” Federer smiled. “Kind of weird... he changed to mine now.”
Champions are stubborn and stand by their choices – maybe that’s one of the reasons they’re champions. But champions are also able to adapt to new circumstances and face the challenges of new opponents in a new era.
A slightly bigger frame with the same specs (balance, stiffness, swing weight, stringbed pattern) would keep the stability and control Federer craves, but be more forgiving and give him a bigger sweetspot. Isn’t it at least worth a try?
FRAME OF REFERENCE
Comparing the head sizes of the racquets used by Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, as well as some players who have defeated Nadal recently. All use a larger head size than Federer.
Player Racquet Headsize (sq. in):
Roger Federer Wilson KTour 90
Rafael Nadal Babolat Aeropro Drive Cortex 100
Novak Djokovic KBlade Tour 93
David Nalbandian Yonex RDS001 MidPlus 98
Nikolay Davydenko Prince Ozone Tour 100
Andy Roddick Babolat Pure Drive Roddick Plus 100
David Ferrer Prince Shark 100
Thomas Berdych Dunlop Aerogel 2Hundred 95
James Blake Dunlop Aerogel 2Hundred 95
Mikhail Youzhny Head Microgel Extreme Pro 100
Juan Carlos Ferrero Prince Graphite Classic 107

“ALMOST LIKE CHEATING”
Just ask Federer’s exhibition partner and friend Pete Sampras, who's admitted he regrets not experimenting with a bigger frame while he was still on tour.Sampras played his whole glorious career with one racquet – the Wilson Pro Staff 85, strung with gut. He won his last Grand Slam at the US Open in 2002, but for some years he’d been already struggling against a new generation of players who were born clutching an oversized racquet in their hands. Apart from his famed fitness, one of the reasons Andre Agassi lasted so long on tour was that from early on in his career he used an oversized frame and was quick to convert to polyester when the Luxilon craze started.
Only recently has Sampras made the move towards a bigger size, but was able to give Federer a hard time in their exhibition matches. Much like it did for Federer, the 90-inch frame with hybrid polyester/gut stringing has helped Sampras produce more power with less effort whilst maintaining touch and a solid response. “You can still swing hard and have control,” said Sampras in San Jose. “It’s a great combination, almost like cheating!”
Though the game’s champions tend to stick to their sticks, changing to a bigger size has brought welcome results for some. The best move was probably John McEnroe’s switch from the conventional wooden Dunlop Maxply McEnroe to the Dunlop Max 200G, which helped him to his Wimbledon title in 1983 and then record the best season win-loss in men’s tennis history in 1984.
Martina Navratilova adopted a Yonex mid-plus racquet in the early 1980s that helped her dominate the tour, while Chris Evert was able to get a late surge in her career and break her rival’s utter dominance by switching to the Wilson Pro Staff 85 and going on to beat Martina at the 1985 and 1986 Roland Garros finals.
In the 1990s, Michael Chang was able to stay close to the top using an extended frame that made up for his lack of height – rather like Marion Bartoli, who uses an extended frame to make the most of her two-handed shots. Thomas Muster also got better results on faster surfaces after he started using an extended racquet, though he admitted afterwards that the same extended frame made him lose his edge on clay courts.
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Eigenaar/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg
THE WEAPONS OF A NEW GENERATION
Federer himself describes Rafael Nadal’s game as “awkward,” and against it he – and everybody else – needs as much help as they can get.
An ailing Federer lost to a 17-year-old Nadal in Miami in 2004 the first time they met; by 2005, they had started facing each other regularly and it became clear that the Spaniard’s vicious lefty spins affected his execution not only on the baseline but also at the net or returning his slice serve on the ad court. Armed with a powerful 100 square-inch frame and using a polyester string, Rafael Nadal has developed a game style that has almost literally been molded by new technology – the modern racquet is big enough to give him margin for error even with his extreme grips and heavily topspun forehands, which are hit with an estimated 4,800 rpm (400 more than Federer’s). The power of the Babolat frame is tamed with a stiff string that tremendously enhances spin while keeping the ball within the limits of the court.
Three years into their rivalry, Roger Federer is still playing with the smallest racquet frame on tour and is no longer the dominant force he once was. He lost the epic Wimbledon final against Nadal after 4 hours and 48 minutes in dark conditions – the 10 inch. discrepancy in their racquet heads must have been more significant than ever at 9.16 pm. Could the mere five points that separated them on the Centre Court eventually have been reversed with five more square inches in Federer racquet?
The lack of square inches is even more evident on clay, especially when Nadal is hitting his high-bouncing shots to Federer’s backhand. Sampras’s Pro Staff 85 seemed too small in his Roland Garros campaigns, and these days, so does Federer’s.
Does racquet size really matter? Most professionals opt for control over power, and tend to use smaller frames than recreational players. Making the right pick depends on matching the type of racquet and style of play, plus fine-tuning of the racquet specs and string combination. A sweet spot that is five percent bigger could provide a lot more comfort, boosting the margin over error when under pressure and providing a little more power to break the best defense.
Andy Murray was spot-on at Wimbledon when he described the shanking nightmare that is facing Nadal: “He puts so much spin on the ball that it is difficult to find the middle of the racquet.”
So perhaps the first step for Federer should be not a new set of tactics or change in approach, but simply getting a bigger ‘middle of the racquet’ – a bigger sweet spot, thanks to a slightly bigger racquet.

Miguel Seabra is the editor of ProTÉNIS magazine and Jornal do Ténis in Portugal, and a commentator for Eurosport.

jpatatsos
07-31-2008, 09:18 AM
a sports psychologist will help

FairWeatherFan
07-31-2008, 09:51 AM
Really, I think one of the best explanations for Federer's decline this year is that the guy just needs a rest. Four years of total domination, week-in-week-out, of a sport with almost no off-season and which is extremely demanding both physically and mentally? Got to take it out of you. Therefore, maybe he really doesn't need a coach.

I would love to see Federer team up with Cahill, though. Cahill is a fantastic coach.

Clay Death
07-31-2008, 11:57 AM
perhaps the question isn't who, but what?
According to an article on tennis.com: an new, bigger racquet as a slightly larger sweet spot would give him some more margin for error

most interesting. i wonder if he would give it some consideration.

in the mean time, he continues to victimize himself with denials:

Federer shrugs off Nadal top-spot danger
Sun 27 Jul, 09:58 PM

CINCINNATI, Ohio (AFP) - Roger Federer said Sunday that Rafael Nadal's seemingly unstoppable advance towards his world number one spot is not a major drama.

"I feel good, I'm focussed," said the Swiss, who is hoping to put his game right this week as he defends his title at the Cincinnati Masters.

"I'm not focussed on Rafa, he's on the other side of the draw. Of course he's been playing great and is on an unbelievable winning streak."

Nadal claimed a seventh title this season on Sunday as he defeated Nicolas Kiefer in straight sets for the Toronto Masters trophy.

"We're back on hardcourt again and it's hard to keep winning. But what he's doing is terrific."

Federer said that fighting off Nadal cannot produce any more stress than a Wimbledon final, where he won five titles in succession before falling to his Spanish rival in an epic five-set final earlier this month.

"There's always pressure, but I expect to win my matches and tournaments. I've had that four or five years. It's nothing new. It's only that number one is in more danger than in the past."

But the 26-year-old is sticking to the long-range approach which has always characterised his game.

"I focus on big picture, prepare well and try not to go crazy over the ranking. I know there's a lot of talk about it now, and Rafa does deserve the credit."

But the keen follower of the game added: "Rafa would have been number three had he lost his semi-final with (Novak) Djokovic in Hamburg. It has all changed now, but I don't feel pressure in any way."I just hope to get in a hardcourt roll this week and be in great shape for the Olympics."


he says that he doesnt feel the pressure. right. total bullshit. massive case of a monster denial.

also when will he ever learn that the Clay Monster wins the matches he is supposed to win. Clay is where he conducts his endless death ceremonies. Fed should know that better than anyone.

the very first step on a path to wisdon and higher truth is accepting the new imperatives and the new realities on the ground.

i said this in my original post to some extent. he must embrace the idea of no longer being the most dominant force in tennis.

and then start thinking about reinventing himself. his current approach is just not working.

Herdwick
07-31-2008, 12:00 PM
:wavey: CD - you're incorrigible. We are truly blessed...

Clay Death
07-31-2008, 12:05 PM
:wavey: CD - you're incorrigible. We are truly blessed...


is that a compliment or an insult or both?

First you whisper in my ear and then you finish by pissing on my foot.

Herdwick
07-31-2008, 12:14 PM
You may take it as a compliment; I like to think I am never unintentionally rude. You're both indefatigible on your chosen subject and you have a original turn of phrase.

Clay Death
07-31-2008, 12:19 PM
You may take it as a compliment; I like to think I am never unintentionally rude. You're both indefatigible on your chosen subject and you have a original turn of phrase.


i think this particular subject is the most critical subject in tennis. the whole world wants to know what is going with Fed and how he can regain his dominance.

the 2nd greatest area of interest concerns the Clay Monster and what he has achieved this year. it just defies the imagination. i guess next he will set his sights to winning on quick sand.

keep up the good posting. we are all just having fun here and sharing our intense passion for the sport.

Sunset of Age
07-31-2008, 01:22 PM
the 2nd greatest area of interest concerns the Clay Monster and what he has achieved this year. it just defies the imagination. i guess next he will set his sights to winning on quick sand.

Might I remind you that Mr. HasBeen, aka Fed, has had rather comparable results during the past three-four years?

Bernard Black
07-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Might I remind you that Mr. HasBeen, aka Fed, has had rather comparable results during the past three-four years?

In bandwagon terms, that was a long time ago and most likely forgotten. :)

scarecrows
07-31-2008, 04:32 PM
anyone else finds nauseating the same garbage spilled by CD's keyboard over and over again?

Allez
07-31-2008, 06:46 PM
most interesting. i wonder if he would give it some consideration.

in the mean time, he continues to victimize himself with denials:

Federer shrugs off Nadal top-spot danger
Sun 27 Jul, 09:58 PM

CINCINNATI, Ohio (AFP) - Roger Federer said Sunday that Rafael Nadal's seemingly unstoppable advance towards his world number one spot is not a major drama.

"I feel good, I'm focussed," said the Swiss, who is hoping to put his game right this week as he defends his title at the Cincinnati Masters.

"I'm not focussed on Rafa, he's on the other side of the draw. Of course he's been playing great and is on an unbelievable winning streak."

Nadal claimed a seventh title this season on Sunday as he defeated Nicolas Kiefer in straight sets for the Toronto Masters trophy.

"We're back on hardcourt again and it's hard to keep winning. But what he's doing is terrific."

Federer said that fighting off Nadal cannot produce any more stress than a Wimbledon final, where he won five titles in succession before falling to his Spanish rival in an epic five-set final earlier this month.

"There's always pressure, but I expect to win my matches and tournaments. I've had that four or five years. It's nothing new. It's only that number one is in more danger than in the past."

But the 26-year-old is sticking to the long-range approach which has always characterised his game.

"I focus on big picture, prepare well and try not to go crazy over the ranking. I know there's a lot of talk about it now, and Rafa does deserve the credit."

But the keen follower of the game added: "Rafa would have been number three had he lost his semi-final with (Novak) Djokovic in Hamburg. It has all changed now, but I don't feel pressure in any way."I just hope to get in a hardcourt roll this week and be in great shape for the Olympics."


he says that he doesnt feel the pressure. right. total bullshit. massive case of a monster denial.

also when will he ever learn that the Clay Monster wins the matches he is supposed to win. Clay is where he conducts his endless death ceremonies. Fed should know that better than anyone.

the very first step on a path to wisdon and higher truth is accepting the new imperatives and the new realities on the ground.

i said this in my original post to some extent. he must embrace the idea of no longer being the most dominant force in tennis.

and then start thinking about reinventing himself. his current approach is just not working.


Blimey Fed is losing it. Not only is he not playing well anymore, but he does not seem to be thinking straight either. Stop talking Rogi, please!

Before the French, he claimed 2008 was his year to win it. This must surely have angered Nadal who as a three time defending champion should have been shown more respect by Fed. Nadal butchered hin in Paris. The worst final and worst loss by a number 1 seed in god only knows how many decades.

After the French he claimed that Nadal's season was essentially over as he installed himself as the "overwhelming" favourite to dominate on grass. He dominated a super weak field in Halle as Nadal perfected his grass court game by taking on the grass giants @ Queens and a few weeks later cutting Federer to pieces @ Wimbledon.

After Wimbledon he again seemed to dismiss Nadal's chances on hard courts and once again listed himself as the best hard court player out there despite winning ZERO hard court titles in 2008. He didn't even have Nadal in the top 2 :eek: In Toronto he lost to an admittedly hot mug Simon and barley survived Ginepri in Cincy. Nadal on the other hand dominated the field in Toronto (while not playing his best) and had a jesus like display in his opening match in Cincy.

CD you're so right. Fed needs to stop these delusional comments. Nadal doesn't make them and yet he wins, so those of you who claim he is right to "believe in himself" miss the point entirely. Do you doubt Rafa's belief in himself ? Fed needs to hire a psychologist pronto. He's not dealing with the current reality & as everyone knows what you resist persists.

Clay Death
07-31-2008, 06:55 PM
Blimey Fed is losing it. Not only is he not playing well anymore, but he does not seem to be thinking straight either. Stop talking Rogi, please!

Before the French, he claimed 2008 was his year to win it. This must surely have angered Nadal who as a three time defending champion should have been shown more respect by Fed. Nadal butchered hin in Paris. The worst final and worst loss by a number 1 seed in god only knows how many decades.

After the French he claimed that Nadal's season was essentially over as he installed himself as the "overwhelming" favourite to dominate on grass. He dominated a super weak field in Halle as Nadal perfected his grass court game by taking on the grass giants @ Queens and a few weeks later cutting Federer to pieces @ Wimbledon.

After Wimbledon he again seemed to dismiss Nadal's chances on hard courts and once again listed himself as the best hard court player out there despite winning ZERO hard court titles in 2008. He didn't even have Nadal in the top 2 :eek: In Toronto he lost to an admittedly hot mug Simon and barley survived Ginepri in Cincy. Nadal on the other hand dominated the field in Toronto (while not playing his best) and had a jesus like display in his opening match in Cincy.

CD you're so right. Fed needs to stop these delusional comments. Nadal doesn't make them and yet he wins, so those of you who claim he is right to "believe in himself" miss the point entirely. Do you doubt Rafa's belief in himself ? Fed needs to hire a psychologist pronto. He's not dealing with the current reality & as everyone knows what you resists persists.


great post Allex. at last somebody that understands the reality on the ground.

Fed continues to speak from both sides of his mouth. he continues to take cheap digs at Nadal. this cheap dig business never lets up. it has to piss off the Clay Monster deep inside.

Fed even took a cheap shot at Nadal when Nadal was in a major slump. Fed specifically said that his game is much more robust and is not susceptible to periodic slumps.

these needless digs do more harm than good. if you say them often, you can start to believe them and hence the massive denial he is in. its also not very respectful to your fellow pros. no wonder nadal decided to humiliate him in Paris.

tae04
07-31-2008, 07:44 PM
I've always thought Federer ran his mouth unnecessarily during press conferences. Hopefully Karlovic knocks him out today!

groundstroke
07-31-2008, 08:00 PM
I would say just keep on trying and work on that backhand side more.

BackhandMissile
07-31-2008, 08:54 PM
Despite the fact that Federer's only won two titles so far in 2008, he seemed to dispose of his RG and Wimbledon opponents with ease (until the finals) and made the finals or semis of most of the tournaments he played.

However, since the Wimbledon final he's only one 1 match out of 3 on hard court, and even that was a close call.

So what next? Which Federer are we going to see in the US Open?

Did he simply not try hard enough in Toronto and Cincinnati, maybe not wanting to tire himself out? Is he only planning to go all out in the Grand Slams? Or is it a case of his invincible aura disappearing and allowing more players to go in for the kill?

I haven't seen him play at Cincinnati or Toronto so I can't really see what's going wrong, but it would be interesting to hear what someone who did see him has to say.

prafull
07-31-2008, 08:56 PM
Roger isnt playing like a top 10 player on the Hard Courts this year. He was bad at the start of the year and looking even worse now. USO will be tough.

Fedex
07-31-2008, 08:58 PM
Who knows? It sure as hell doesn't look very promising at the moment.

jacobhiggins
07-31-2008, 08:58 PM
The people who are beating him are playing good, but Federer is physcially in a different place right now then was before. He has to train harder and get back to where he was!

selyoink
07-31-2008, 09:03 PM
We will see the FedMug we have seen all year if he even shows up at all. FedMug will still probably make the second week but he has largely been awful on hardcourts this year.

ChinoRios4Ever
07-31-2008, 09:07 PM
USO will be wide open this year with this FedMug, Rafa probably tired of Beijing, Nole not at his best, A-Rod injuried...

nanoman
07-31-2008, 09:07 PM
I'd say it is still a big mental hurdle for players to take 3 sets off even Fedmug. So I still expect him to go deep. Djokshit, Nadal and Murray are the prime candidates to slay him.

BackhandMissile
07-31-2008, 09:08 PM
The people who are beating him are playing good, but Federer is physcially in a different place right now then was before. He has to train harder and get back to where he was!

The Olympics start on Monday. The US Open starts on the 25th of August, that's basically three weeks from Monday with the Olympic Games in the first two weeks. We know Roger wants to win the gold (unless he's changed his mind) so if there's going to be any training it's going to be in the week between the Olympics and the US Open.

Now that the competition is opening up, we could have one hell of a US Open ahead of us.

cool bird1
07-31-2008, 09:10 PM
Ok so now here is the queston can Roger Federer get his mojo back for next year. For me he is hitting the ball well he is just making silly mistakes at the wrong times in matches.

Allez
07-31-2008, 09:10 PM
Well nothing can help him now. Free fall.

renatoal
07-31-2008, 09:12 PM
for sure, why not?

cool bird1
07-31-2008, 09:18 PM
Federer will have a stack of points to gain. wahooo

Jagermeister
07-31-2008, 09:19 PM
Backhand return is in shambles. Forehand's getting a little wild on him. The biggest thing tho, is that he just seems flat and uninspired out there. Just going through the motions.

And Federer has this habit of making these passive-aggressive statements on press conferences. No big deal I guess. We'll see what he says this time.

Allez
07-31-2008, 09:22 PM
Backhand return is in shambles. Forehand's getting a little wild on him. The biggest thing tho, is that he just seems flat and uninspired out there. Just going through the motions.

And Federer has this habit of making these passive-aggressive statements on press conferences. No big deal I guess. We'll see what he says this time.

He'll probably say he's still the best player in the world :rolleyes:

Zolka
07-31-2008, 09:30 PM
I think yes, but probably not this year. If he wins the Olympic or the USO, it would be considered nothing less than a miracle. Okay, maybe not a miracle, but a big surprise for sure. I don't know, i kinda like started worrying for the maestro, but i'm not ready to jump off the express just yet, who am i kidding, i'll never be. :)