Why don't North American events have covers? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why don't North American events have covers?

Jaap
07-21-2008, 06:20 PM
Just watching the pathetic sight of a lone person trying to dry a soaked centre court in Toronto with a brush brings me to the question as to why these tennis events in North America never have any covers for their courts?

Is there any reason for this?

Xenosys
07-21-2008, 06:24 PM
Good question actually, I've often wondered that myself. Surely it'd be more beneficial to have some covers at the ready just in case.

I'm just surprised they haven't brought out a hairdryer to dry off the courts.

Allstar
07-21-2008, 06:24 PM
I cant understand it. They get those court blowers out as well which cant be too cheap. Just wack a cover on ffs

LinkMage
07-21-2008, 06:37 PM
Another mystery just like how Roland Garros and Wimbledon don't invest in some lights so that players can see something when matches go on at 9 pm.

federernadalfan
07-21-2008, 06:46 PM
they don't want to invest in the money to get roofs, they think it's no need because they can schedule their tournament so it finishes in time eventually

Morgan Z
07-21-2008, 06:49 PM
I think slowly all tournaments should move indoors as rain delays are annoying to everyone. Except grass, of course, as it requires natural light.

Anyone know why we very rarely have indoor red clay events? I remember a Futures or two being played on it but that's it.

Neely
07-21-2008, 06:57 PM
Another mystery just like how Roland Garros and Wimbledon don't invest in some lights so that players can see something when matches go on at 9 pm.
As for Roland Garros, I'm not sure if it is such a negative thing that they don't have lights because clay and floodlights usually don't get along too well in terms of good sight. Well, for some it's an enormous problems, for some less. But it's much more problematic than on hardcourts.

Anyone know why we very rarely have indoor red clay events? I remember a Futures or two being played on it but that's it.
It's possible of course, but mostly such temporary indoor clay courts which are laid in multifunctional arenas or domes are of a worse quality because a good claycourts needs to be set well in advance and consists of more layers than most of these indoor clay courts which are typically used for Davis Cup, for example.

ryan23
07-21-2008, 07:01 PM
Another mystery just like how Roland Garros and Wimbledon don't invest in some lights so that players can see something when matches go on at 9 pm.

There will be lights when the new roof is built i believe

Lee
07-21-2008, 07:03 PM
It's not practical to build a roof on a hard court just for a one-week tournament which is occasionally interrupted by rain.

Morgan Z
07-21-2008, 07:08 PM
Okay, Neely.

The sight problem with clay and lights is definitely there, coming to think of it. But at least all the hard court tournaments should be played indoors.

Fumus
07-21-2008, 07:12 PM
Okay, Neely.

The sight problem with clay and lights is definitely there, coming to think of it. But at least all the hard court tournaments should be played indoors.

PSH, YES! Exactly, let's play tennis all on the same surface too. Outdoors is for the birds. :o:o

LinkMage
07-21-2008, 07:14 PM
As for Roland Garros, I'm not sure if it is such a negative thing that they don't have lights because clay and floodlights usually don't get along too well in terms of good sight. Well, for some it's an enormous problems, for some less. But it's much more problematic than on hardcourts.



There are lots of clay court tournaments which have matches scheduled at night and are played under lights. I never heard someone complaining.

shotgun
07-21-2008, 07:19 PM
At least they have lights. But it would be interesting if having a retractable roof in the center court became a requirement to hold a TMS event. Bring on Ion Tiriac. ;) :lol:


As for Roland Garros, I'm not sure if it is such a negative thing that they don't have lights because clay and floodlights usually don't get along too well in terms of good sight. Well, for some it's an enormous problems, for some less. But it's much more problematic than on hardcourts.

Yet there are plenty of clay ATP events that have night sessions. All the Latin American ones, as well as Umag, Hamburg... And it works well there, so I don't see much of a problem.

Morgan Z
07-21-2008, 07:19 PM
PSH, YES! Exactly, let's play tennis all on the same surface too. Outdoors is for the birds. :o:o

Yeah, adding a roof makes the quality of tennis so different. :rolleyes:

Neely
07-21-2008, 07:20 PM
BTW, big parts of the answer to the thread question are the heat retention of hard courts, thus resulting condensation under the covers which would still make towelling necessary, lacking drainage systems at the side of the courts and general air humidity.

My guess is that probably only a tented cover like you're seeing it at Wimbledon with a really good (artificial) air circulation beneath it, maybe even better an air dehumidification system would work.

Fumus
07-21-2008, 07:45 PM
Yeah, adding a roof makes the quality of tennis so different. :rolleyes:

It changes many things for players and fans.

Ideally every stadium would have a roof so it would not be effected by rain. Similarly, ideally it would never rain during a tennis tournement either. Being outdoors is special for players and fans, the sun, the wind, and the air. Tennis is an elemental sport at its heart.

Burrow
07-21-2008, 07:48 PM
It's not practical to build a roof on a hard court just for a one-week tournament which is occasionally interrupted by rain.

Covers, not roofs....

star
07-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Usually if it stops raining a hard court dries off pretty fast. It's only when there continues to be a drizzle that it's a problem, or some insane kind of rain that causes water to stand and not drain off when the rain stops. The blowers are rented so the cost is limited.

People tend to forget when there's a hardcourt tournament held with absolutely no rain delays and focus on the relatively few extened delays during the hardcourt season.

I, for one, would not like to see all the hardcourt tournaments played indoors. I really don't like indoor tennis at all.

Morgan Z
07-21-2008, 07:59 PM
It changes many things for players and fans.

Ideally every stadium would have a roof so it would not be effected by rain. Similarly, ideally it would never rain during a tennis tournement either. Being outdoors is special for players and fans, the sun, the wind, and the air. Tennis is an elemental sport at its heart.

Okay, okay, can't disagree with that. And of course outdoor tennis is brilliant when the weather is good.

But at the same times it's incredibly annoying for many people (fans, organisers and players alike) when it's raining and no play is possible.

I guess it just depends on what annoys you more as a tennis fan/player - delays or similar atmospheres everywhere. It's delays for me. :)

+alonso
07-21-2008, 08:24 PM
Another mystery just like how Roland Garros and Wimbledon don't invest in some lights so that players can see something when matches go on at 9 pm.
Well, I don't think climate conditions allow it anyways. In Wimbledon, players are under the risk of injury because of the ''wet/humid'' grass court. I don't know about Rolland Garros hence it is another surface, though.

Lee
07-21-2008, 09:51 PM
Covers, not roofs....

Please define covers then

Chip_s_m
07-21-2008, 09:57 PM
Please define covers then

I think he's referring to tarps that are pulled over the courts and rest on top of the actual surface. Some, like the one's at Wimbledon, are inflated a little bit so that the cover actually sits a couple inches off of the ground.

dam0dred
07-21-2008, 09:58 PM
I highly doubt Tennis Canada is in a position to pour millions of dollars into a roof for a one week event in a country that doesn't give a shit about tennis. Even if they were I'd rather they spent the money developing the sport than on some roof we don't need.

Lee
07-21-2008, 10:06 PM
I think he's referring to tarps that are pulled over the courts and rest on top of the actual surface. Some, like the one's at Wimbledon, are inflated a little bit so that the cover actually sits a couple inches off of the ground.


Thanks for the clarification since I am confused by Burrow as my post is not the first one that mention roof but he/she picks mine to response.

If that's the covers the OP refers to, then I think it's even more not practical as star mentioned already, hard court is fast to dry and covering the hard courts don't make much difference timewise in resuming matches.

bceci
07-21-2008, 10:14 PM
I think last year at the US Open or 2 years ago can't remember, but one of the commentators said that the reason they don't put covers on hard courts is because of something to do with the hard courts and humidity. Apparently it might cause bubbles to appear on the court making it impossible to play and the courts might start to crack or something.

Black Adam
07-21-2008, 10:14 PM
Clay doesn't go well with floodlights. I remember back in 2005 at the Roma TMS when Gaudio lost 6-0 6-0 to some guy (Ferrer??) because in his words " he couldn't see a damn thing"

JolánGagó
07-21-2008, 10:28 PM
Tennis is basically an outdoor sport, the other thing is called ping-pong.

LinkMage
07-21-2008, 10:29 PM
Clay doesn't go well with floodlights. I remember back in 2005 at the Roma TMS when Gaudio lost 6-0 6-0 to some guy (Ferrer??) because in his words " he couldn't see a damn thing"



Still there are a lot of clay tournaments with night matches.

LinkMage
07-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Well, I don't think climate conditions allow it anyways. In Wimbledon, players are under the risk of injury because of the ''wet/humid'' grass court. I don't know about Rolland Garros hence it is another surface, though.



I'm not saying there should be night matches. Just that there should be lights so that players can see when it starts to get dark. Both Nadal and Federer said they couldn't see very well in the last games in the Wimbledon final.

Albop
07-21-2008, 10:32 PM
Please define covers then

http://www.stuartcanvas.co.uk/uploads/images/sports/tennis/inflatable3.jpg

Black Adam
07-21-2008, 10:39 PM
Still there are a lot of clay tournaments with night matches.

It depends on the players. Gaudio was still good in 2005 meaning a double bagel loss was quite a shocker. And he also blamed the lighting conditions for his loss because he couldn't see the ball. I know in Rome they play under light but maybe the way the light reflects on the red clay affects some players' vision.

Lee
07-21-2008, 10:40 PM
http://www.stuartcanvas.co.uk/uploads/images/sports/tennis/inflatable3.jpg

covers for grass courts, we are talking about hard courts here. ;)

I have post a more serious answer above. :)

Merton
07-22-2008, 01:55 AM
It is not a problem as long as the court does not hold water, as it can be dried pretty quickly, besides the luxury of night matches means that most of the time the increased speed of resuming play given covers is not worth maintaining a crew for handling the covers.

Moonchild44
07-22-2008, 05:57 PM
Tell me please, it's such a waste of time

Dougie
07-22-2008, 05:58 PM
I was just thinking the same.

Beforehand
07-22-2008, 06:20 PM
Hardcourts dry more quickly than other courts.

I don't remember exactly why either but since someone mentioned it, I think someone did say it's not good for the courts either.

Deboogle!.
07-22-2008, 06:30 PM
They have said repeatedly that putting a cover on the courts simply creates condensation underneath the courts so they would have to dry them anyway. If they have to dry the courts anyway, why bother with the covers :lol:

As for lights at Wimbledon they can't because once the sun goes down, dew starts forming on the grass, so it gets wet, and is then a safety hazard... so no night play at wimbledon.

Lee
07-22-2008, 06:43 PM
They have said repeatedly that putting a cover on the courts simply creates condensation underneath the courts so they would have to dry them anyway. If they have to dry the courts anyway, why bother with the covers :lol:

As for lights at Wimbledon they can't because once the sun goes down, dew starts forming on the grass, so it gets wet, and is then a safety hazard... so no night play at wimbledon.

A reasonable and sensible reply in GM is forbidden, Deb!










Sorry about my sarcasms these days.

Fumus
07-22-2008, 08:06 PM
They have said repeatedly that putting a cover on the courts simply creates condensation underneath the courts so they would have to dry them anyway. If they have to dry the courts anyway, why bother with the covers :lol:

As for lights at Wimbledon they can't because once the sun goes down, dew starts forming on the grass, so it gets wet, and is then a safety hazard... so no night play at wimbledon.

This I did not know....but at the risk of keeping this argument going, they could cover the courts and inflate it like they do at Wimbledon...and then there's no condensation right?

Lee
07-22-2008, 08:12 PM
This I did not know....but at the risk of keeping this argument going, they could cover the courts and inflate it like they do at Wimbledon...and then there's no condensation right?

I think there will still be condensation unless blowers are used to keep circulating the air underneath.

scoobs
07-22-2008, 08:24 PM
I think there will still be condensation unless blowers are used to keep circulating the air underneath.
Yes and I'm guessing they have rain infrequently enough, and it's not so disruptive to the schedule, that in cost-benefit terms its not worth the expense of a court cover AND inflating it AND an air system to remove condensation.

TheBoiledEgg
07-22-2008, 09:34 PM
the fans get more entertainment seeing the ballboys drying the courts with towels than from the tennis :tape:

also it keeps the vendors more busy :spit:

Henry Chinaski
07-22-2008, 10:28 PM
As for lights at Wimbledon they can't because once the sun goes down, dew starts forming on the grass, so it gets wet, and is then a safety hazard... so no night play at wimbledon.


I don't think anyone is talking about night sessions for Wimbledon but about the final hour of the day session that is played in very poor light. Murray v Gasquet was quite farcial and the end of the final wasn't much better.
The LTA is filthy rich.

MusicMyst
07-22-2008, 10:47 PM
This I did not know....but at the risk of keeping this argument going, they could cover the courts and inflate it like they do at Wimbledon...and then there's no condensation right?

Not unless the air below and above the tarp is the exact same temperature. Otherwise, because hard courts retain heat, unlike grass, you'll still get condensation even if you inflate the tarps.

MusicMyst
07-22-2008, 10:48 PM
I think there will still be condensation unless blowers are used to keep circulating the air underneath.

I didn't see this before I posted. You're correct -- the solution is to mimic the defroster in your car -- but you'd have to start circulate the air and maintain the equal air temperatures precisely to avoid any condensation.

lazyman
07-23-2008, 05:02 AM
I don't think anyone is talking about night sessions for Wimbledon but about the final hour of the day session that is played in very poor light. Murray v Gasquet was quite farcial and the end of the final wasn't much better.
The LTA is filthy rich.

there will be lights used for night matches at wimbledon next year. But the only time they will be aloud to use em is when the roof has been closed

Stensland
07-23-2008, 03:10 PM
apparently it stopped raining right now. god must have a thing for those fluffy yellow balls today... ;)

fsoica
07-23-2008, 03:28 PM
right now, light rain:

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/CAXX0504

TheBoiledEgg
07-23-2008, 04:24 PM
OFFICIAL reason why they dont have covers

"they dont look good at side of court" :haha: :tape:

you got to be kidding :lol:

Deboogle!.
07-23-2008, 04:27 PM
OFFICIAL reason why they dont have covers

"they dont look good at side of court" :haha: :tape:

you got to be kidding :lol:That is not the official reason :lol: the condensation is the official reason.... they have said it during the USO many many times over the years

Stensland
07-23-2008, 04:35 PM
oh my...

this is what i hate about tennis. :awww:

Clay Death
07-23-2008, 04:50 PM
oh my...

this is what i hate about tennis. :awww:

this tournament appears to be doomed. it continues to rain there. there is 40% chance of rain there on friday and 60% on saturday.

Jaap
07-23-2008, 04:52 PM
So Safin will have to play 3 matches in one day?

Stensland
07-23-2008, 04:52 PM
...which means we're gonna see the old game again where they start putting roger, rafa, haas, nalbandian and murray on at the same time, courts 1-6, noon (figuratively).

just great. :(

Clay Death
07-23-2008, 04:53 PM
So Safin will have to play 3 matches in one day?


or take some of these cats who are playing both singles and doubles. they may have to play 4.

it doesnt look good at this moment. we need some matches to be played and completed today.

federernadalfan
07-23-2008, 04:56 PM
torrential downpour atm. Toronto weather dreadful, it is going to be like this the whole week. Maybe next monday there will be some sun. lol

Sunset of Age
07-23-2008, 05:00 PM
torrential downpour atm. Toronto weather dreadful, it is going to be like this the whole week. Maybe next monday there will be some sun. lol

That's when Cincy starts off, isn't it? :help:

Allstar
07-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Yes and I'm guessing they have rain infrequently enough, and it's not so disruptive to the schedule, that in cost-benefit terms its not worth the expense of a court cover AND inflating it AND an air system to remove condensation.

For the main court in particular though there cant be that much difference in cost of an air system and 4 of those golf buggys which they use at the US Open?

Pfloyd
07-23-2008, 05:05 PM
Any news as to when play will start today?

Thanos
07-23-2008, 05:35 PM
they should build a roof. this is a master series tournament and i think next year both men and woman are going to be playing at the same time.

Havok
07-23-2008, 05:39 PM
They don't need covers. What they do need is people who can dry courts quickly. Montreal is insanely quick with drying courts. They send out an entire team to dry the courts and they were ready in like 20 minutes, it was ridiculous. I don't think covers will help all that much, people just need to move their asses to dry the damn courts that's all.

Havok
07-23-2008, 05:43 PM
they should build a roof. this is a master series tournament and i think next year both men and woman are going to be playing at the same time.
No they won't. The Canadian TMS/Tier I alternates between Toronto and Montreal for both sexes each year. They are never at the same place at the same time for the Canadian event.

TheBoiledEgg
07-23-2008, 07:14 PM
thats the problem, dry a court
what about the rest of the courts ??
at least its not a slam where you have around 18 courts

Deivid23
09-11-2009, 09:11 PM
Discuss while I´m out for some drinks!

born_on_clay
09-11-2009, 09:18 PM
That's the one-milion doralls question...

whattheheck
09-11-2009, 09:19 PM
Because they don't have money to buy covers:rolleyes:

born_on_clay
09-11-2009, 09:21 PM
Because they don't have money to buy covers:rolleyes:

americans have money

Albop
08-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I just can't get it.

tangerine_dream
08-15-2010, 08:55 PM
Getting through the rain delay is part of the tennis experience.

buddyholly
08-16-2010, 01:13 AM
Don't know why you referenced a lonely person with a brush. I was there and the courts were dried in very quick time by blowers. Even after the last heavy shower I just had time for a burger before they said that play was about to resume.

Serenidad
08-16-2010, 06:57 AM
if Brands had played I would be pissed.

TheBoiledEgg
08-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Getting through the rain delay is part of the tennis experience.

you whinge like shit during Wimbledon.

MacTheKnife
08-16-2010, 03:50 PM
Tennis is an outdoor sport and the elements are part of the deal. I hate roofs.

Certinfy
08-16-2010, 03:52 PM
Tennis is an outdoor sport and the elements are part of the deal. I hate roofs.I bet you don't say that when it's raining and you're in your house. :lol:

star
08-16-2010, 03:54 PM
The reason there are no covers is becasue tarps don't help that much with keeping a hard court dry during rainy weather since mositure collects under the tarp and the courts would still have to be dried.

I think where people get really upset are the extended delays when the is a lot of moisture in the air but it isn't really raining. The courts are difficult to dry then. The good news is that the dryers are getting better.

TheBoiledEgg
08-16-2010, 03:57 PM
just get a circus tent
there's enough clowns playing these days

Chuck Palumbo
09-07-2011, 06:10 PM
Good question Jaap

Johnny Groove
09-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Good question Jaap

:lol:

I agree with the premise though.

star
09-07-2011, 06:16 PM
BTW, big parts of the answer to the thread question are the heat retention of hard courts, thus resulting condensation under the covers which would still make towelling necessary, lacking drainage systems at the side of the courts and general air humidity.

My guess is that probably only a tented cover like you're seeing it at Wimbledon with a really good (artificial) air circulation beneath it, maybe even better an air dehumidification system would work.

This has been explained so many times in this board that it is tiresome in the extreme.

Also when there is extreme rain at the USO courts because it is at sea level there is very poor drainage and the drains sometimes actually put water on the court. A cover will not help that situation.

Grass absorbs the rain so has to be covered or else the courts would be sodden. The hard courts do not. Once it quits raining the courts are going to need pretty much the same kind of drying with or without covers.

There would have to be tents and heated blowers under the tents and still the courts would probably be wet.

nobama
09-07-2011, 06:29 PM
This has been explained so many times in this board that it is tiresome in the extreme.

Also when there is extreme rain at the USO courts because it is at sea level there is very poor drainage and the drains sometimes actually put water on the court. A cover will not help that situation.

Grass absorbs the rain so has to be covered or else the courts would be sodden. The hard courts do not. Once it quits raining the courts are going to need pretty much the same kind of drying with or without covers.

There would have to be tents and heated blowers under the tents and still the courts would probably be wet.This.

Chuck Palumbo
09-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Yanks making excuses
Never in doubt

philosophicalarf
09-07-2011, 06:40 PM
There would have to be tents and heated blowers under the tents and still the courts would probably be wet.

This would be manageable, I'm sure. It's essentially just an aircon system, and not for a large area either.

Just a question of expense. Might be if the roof isn't practical/way too expensive, they end up with this as some sort of public compromise: "we can keep courts dry, start play 5 minutes after it stops raining".