What more to be publicly viewed as the real no. 1? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What more to be publicly viewed as the real no. 1?

fsoica
06-19-2008, 11:57 AM
Look at Nadal's H2Hs:

Nadal - Federer 11-6
Nadal - Djokovic 9-3
Nadal - Roddick 3-2
Nadal - Davydenko 3-1
Nadal - Gasquet 4-0
Nadal - Ferrer 6-3
Nadal - Wawrinka 3-0
Nadal - Murray 3-0
Nadal - Tsonga 2-1
Nadal - Youzhny 6-4
Nadal - Berdych 4-3
Nadal - Almagro 3-0
Nadal - Robredo 4-0
Nadal - Mathieu 8-0
Nadal - Stepanek 4-0

Exceptions :
Nadal - Nalbandian 0-2
Nadal - Blake 2-3
Nadal - Gonzalez 3-3
but those three are going to change soon in Rafa's favour...


so, it's innapropriate to say that he is the real no. 1 ?

PiggyGotRoasted
06-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Rankings :
#1 Federer
#2 Djokovic
#3 Nadal

very soon tyvm

bokehlicious
06-19-2008, 12:00 PM
Blaze saw the light years ago: "Nadal = real #1" ;)

leng jai
06-19-2008, 12:04 PM
Indeed, the general public's favourite past time is looking through tennis head to heads on a friday night.

yvonne_lingerie
06-19-2008, 12:07 PM
omg look how weak ex-federer n jokevich are against nadal! i love tennis :)

arm
06-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Federer - Djokovic 6-2
Federer - Roddick 15-2
Federer - Davydenko 12-0
Federer - Gasquet 6-1
Federer - Ferrer 8-0
Federer - Wawrinka 2-0
Federer - Murray 1-2

No Exceptions for Federer:
Federer - Nalbandian 9-8
Federer - Blake 8-0,

Notice any difference? That's why he isn't #1

fsoica
06-19-2008, 12:11 PM
something remains true:

nobody's beaten Rafa more times then Fed...and nobody kicked Fed's ass more than Rafa ;)

(Nalby and Hewitt included)

David Kenzie
06-19-2008, 12:12 PM
What he needs to do to be #1 ? Let me think ...

Win more than one GS / year ?

vamosnadal
06-19-2008, 12:13 PM
Interesting to look at H2H records....has nothing to do with the number one position though! Until Nadal gets more points than Federer, he obviously could not and should not be viewed as "the real number one".

(and this is coming from a Rafa fan!)

fsoica
06-19-2008, 12:15 PM
one more interesting H2H comparison:

Rafa vs Hewitt 3-4
Fed vs Hewitt 13-7

vamosnadal
06-19-2008, 12:19 PM
No Exceptions for Federer

Umm what about that bloke with the muscles and vivid clothes, who picks his ass a lot and is pretty good on clay.

arm
06-19-2008, 12:21 PM
Umm what about that bloke with the muscles and vivid clothes, who picks his ass a lot and is pretty good on clay.

That THE exception. :lol:

When I wrote "no exceptions" I didn't mean there are no exceptions with Fed,.I meant that Nadal's exceptions are not Fed's. That what I mean. ;)

bokehlicious
06-19-2008, 12:23 PM
If tennis was only played on dirt then Nadal would have a decent shot at #1, unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon :shrug:

scarecrows
06-19-2008, 12:26 PM
If tennis was only played on dirt then Nadal would have a decent shot at #1, unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon :shrug:

shame

leng jai
06-19-2008, 12:27 PM
If clay was only played at Houston then Rodduck would be the clay no 1.

Bernard Black
06-19-2008, 12:46 PM
If tennis was only played on dirt then Nadal would have a decent shot at #1, unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon :shrug:

Even if that were true Nadal would probably still burn himself out by mid-season and Federer reclaim his number one position each year :)

vucina
06-19-2008, 01:01 PM
Those H2H mean very little. They exist because Posh spice and Novak are good enough to get to semis and finals on clay where they get beaten, but Nadal can't get regularly to the final stages on other surfaces where he gets beaten.

BlueSwan
06-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Those H2H mean very little. They exist because Posh spice and Novak are good enough to get to semis and finals on clay where they get beaten, but Nadal can't get regularly to the final stages on other surfaces where he gets beaten.

Indeed. Beating a dead horse but:

Nadal - Federer (on clay): 9-1
Nadal - Federer (off clay): 2-5

Notice the difference? Basically Nadal is unbeatable on clay - easily the #1 if only clay was taken into account, but tennis is a sport played on several surfaces. Off clay, he's not #1 (yet).

Now die horse, die!!

njorker
06-19-2008, 02:01 PM
Wow, Nadal leads most guys in H2H. Never knew that....interesting. ;)

Fumus
06-19-2008, 02:26 PM
If tennis was only played on dirt then Nadal would have a decent shot at #1, unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon :shrug:

Grass courts are dirt too. Therefore Nadal ftw!

tennisfan444
06-19-2008, 02:29 PM
What he needs to do to be #1 ? Let me think ...

Win more than one GS / year ?

you said it :)

Beforehand
06-19-2008, 02:30 PM
My guess is that the best way to be #1 in the eyes of the public is to earn more ranking points than anyone else at a given time.

And keep it that way for a decent amount of time.

croat123
06-19-2008, 03:04 PM
i don't think you can read too much into the fed nadal h2h. most of their matches are on clay because nadal doesn't make it deep enough in non-clay tournaments (with the notable exception of wimbledon) to actually get to face fed.

BIGMARAT
06-19-2008, 03:45 PM
This is the difference Guys.

federer shows up in finals and semis most of the time "even on clay"
Nadal only shows up on clay semis and finals more

result:
The only chance federer can beat him is on clay or whenever rafa is on zone at other surafces. thus his chances of beating nadal is slim. If only nadal can consistently shows at SF and F of rogers surfaces.

On the other hand, nadal has more chances to beat Fed because fed shows up in finals and semis in nadal's favorite surface.

marcRD
06-19-2008, 05:37 PM
If Federer would play his 17 matches against Nadal on clay 6 times, harcourt 6 times, indoor/carpet 2 times and grass 3 times which would be quite fair, he would lead the h2h.

Purely speculation, but objective speculation would say 6-0 Nadal on clay, 4-2 Federer on hardcourt (almsot equal on slow hardcourts and Federer wins all matches on fast hardcourt), 2-0 Federer on indoor, 3-0 Federer on grass. Federer-Nadal h2h would be 9-8.

If Federer would be Sampras quality on clay the h2h would be 5-2 today, I think Federer is kind of unlucky beeing so good on clay as he is, its probably something which has not done good for his career. If he would just be awful on clay and make his priority the rest of the season he would not waste so much energy and confidence on beating Nadal on clay.

tenniswheels
06-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Nadal is on borrowed time with those knees. Wait until he tries to slide around on hardcourts again this year...

FedFan_2007
06-19-2008, 06:29 PM
If Federer would play his 17 matches against Nadal on clay 6 times, harcourt 6 times, indoor/carpet 2 times and grass 3 times which would be quite fair, he would lead the h2h.

Purely speculation, but objective speculation would say 6-0 Nadal on clay, 4-2 Federer on hardcourt (almsot equal on slow hardcourts and Federer wins all matches on fast hardcourt), 2-0 Federer on indoor, 3-0 Federer on grass. Federer-Nadal h2h would be 9-8.

If Federer would be Sampras quality on clay the h2h would be 5-2 today, I think Federer is kind of unlucky beeing so good on clay as he is, its probably something which has not done good for his career. If he would just be awful on clay and make his priority the rest of the season he would not waste so much energy and confidence on beating Nadal on clay.

Yeah Fed is penalized for making all these big clay finals only to have to face the Clay Monster every time. He's reached 13 big clay finals in his career(MS + GS), btw the same # as Nadal. The big diff is Fed is 4-9, and Nadal is 12-1.

sheeter
06-19-2008, 06:36 PM
Nadal is on borrowed time with those knees. Wait until he tries to slide around on hardcourts again this year...

Hopefully he'll curtail that as much as possible this year. Interesting h2h stats as well.

r2473
06-19-2008, 06:37 PM
Look at Nadal's H2Hs:

Nadal - Federer 11-6
Nadal - Djokovic 9-3
Nadal - Roddick 3-2
Nadal - Davydenko 3-1
Nadal - Gasquet 4-0
Nadal - Ferrer 6-3
Nadal - Wawrinka 3-0
Nadal - Murray 3-0
Nadal - Tsonga 2-1
Nadal - Youzhny 6-4
Nadal - Berdych 4-3
Nadal - Almagro 3-0
Nadal - Robredo 4-0
Nadal - Mathieu 8-0
Nadal - Stepanek 4-0

Exceptions :
Nadal - Nalbandian 0-2
Nadal - Blake 2-3
Nadal - Gonzalez 3-3
but those three are going to change soon in Rafa's favour...


so, it's innapropriate to say that he is the real no. 1 ?

".......numbers are as cold as death itself....."

Oh, and I also think Fed should change to a two-handed backhand (I haven't posted that yet today).

rafa_maniac
06-19-2008, 06:40 PM
This is the difference Guys.

federer shows up in finals and semis most of the time "even on clay"
Nadal only shows up on clay semis and finals more

result:
The only chance federer can beat him is on clay or whenever rafa is on zone at other surafces. thus his chances of beating nadal is slim. If only nadal can consistently shows at SF and F of rogers surfaces.

On the other hand, nadal has more chances to beat Fed because fed shows up in finals and semis in nadal's favorite surface.

This stat is severely overrated around these parts. Let's go since Dubai last year. Tournaments off clay that both players participated in?

Indian Wells 07 - Federer failed to make the final
Miami 07 - both failed to make the final
Wimbledon 07 - both made the final
Canada 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Cincinatti 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
US Open 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Madrid 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Paris 07 - Federer failed to make the final
Masters Cup 07 - faced off in semifinals
Australian Open 08 - both failed to make the final
Dubai 08 - both failed to make the final
Indian Wells 08 - both failed to make the final
Miami 08 - Federer failed to make the final

that's only one more time that Federer was deprived a chance of beating Nadal off clay than vice versa.

groundstroke
06-19-2008, 07:12 PM
".......numbers are as cold as death itself....."

Oh, and I also think Fed should change to a two-handed backhand (I haven't posted that yet today).
Federer changing to 2BH? Are you stupid? Do you watch tennis? Do you play tennis? His 1BH is fine, obviously not great on clay but he has won 12 GS and a lot more titles and his BH has helped. Jesus Christ, you know shit all about tennis.

juninhOH
06-19-2008, 07:19 PM
haha why don't go since Australia 2006? why are you taking records from 2007 only?

groundstroke
06-19-2008, 07:23 PM
Federer's H2H:
Fed 6-11 Nadal (5-1 or 4-1 outside clay to Federer)
Fed 6-2 Djoke
Fed 12-0 Davydenko
Fed 8-0 Ferrer
Fed 15-2 Roddick
Fed 9-8 Nalbandian
Fed 8-0 Blake
Fed 6-1 Gasquet
Fed 2-0 Wawrinka
Fed 1-2 Murray (unbelievable)
Fed 5-0 Almagro
Fed 0-0 Tsonga (who crushed Nadal at the Aussie Open)
Fed 11-1 Gonzalez
Fed 4-2 Stepanek
Fed 3-0 Paul Henri Mathieu
Fed 10-0 Youzhny
Fed 8-0 Robredo
Fed 6-1 Berd-shit
Fed 1-0 Monaco
--
Federer has a MUCH better record than Nadal. Please, Shut the fuck up.

groundstroke
06-19-2008, 07:25 PM
Federer's H2H:
Fed 6-11 Nadal (5-1 or 4-1 outside clay to Federer)
Fed 6-2 Djoke
Fed 12-0 Davydenko
Fed 8-0 Ferrer
Fed 15-2 Roddick
Fed 9-8 Nalbandian
Fed 8-0 Blake
Fed 6-1 Gasquet
Fed 2-0 Wawrinka
Fed 1-2 Murray (unbelievable)
Fed 5-0 Almagro
Fed 0-0 Tsonga (who crushed Nadal at the Aussie Open)
Fed 11-1 Gonzalez
Fed 4-2 Stepanek
Fed 3-0 Paul Henri Mathieu
Fed 10-0 Youzhny
Fed 8-0 Robredo
Fed 6-1 Berd-shit
Fed 1-0 Monaco
--
Federer has a MUCH better record than Nadal. Please, Shut the fuck up.




I'll post it again - because you should look at this post twice just to make sure you remember to shut the fuck up.

lalit
06-19-2008, 07:34 PM
give us a grass season as long as the clay season and then talk
nadal is no 2 because someone else deserves to be no 1
as much as i like rafa he isnt that good outside of clay
roger acheivements on clay > rafa on other surfaces

l_mac
06-19-2008, 07:36 PM
Nadal is the #1 player so far this year, but the rankings reflect a year's worth of effort. He'll be viewed as the "real" #1 when he manages to take that position in the entry rankings. Which is as it should be.

I must say I am not enjoying the sudden burst of trollish Nadal fans posting clueless rubbish all over GM :mad: I suspect double accounts. :awww:

Corey Feldman
06-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Usual MTF mug type who thinks clay records count for everything

talk to us about deserving no.1 when he wins something other than RG, thanks.

r2473
06-19-2008, 07:38 PM
Federer changing to 2BH? Are you stupid? Do you watch tennis? Do you play tennis? His 1BH is fine, obviously not great on clay but he has won 12 GS and a lot more titles and his BH has helped. Jesus Christ, you know shit all about tennis.

Wait a second

..........are you trying to say that "numbers are NOT as cold as death itself.......?"

OSmeone
06-19-2008, 08:03 PM
This stat is severely overrated around these parts. Let's go since Dubai last year. Tournaments off clay that both players participated in?

Indian Wells 07 - Federer failed to make the final
Miami 07 - both failed to make the final
Wimbledon 07 - both made the final
Canada 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Cincinatti 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
US Open 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Madrid 07 - Nadal failed to make the final
Paris 07 - Federer failed to make the final
Masters Cup 07 - faced off in semifinals
Australian Open 08 - both failed to make the final
Dubai 08 - both failed to make the final
Indian Wells 08 - both failed to make the final
Miami 08 - Federer failed to make the final

that's only one more time that Federer was deprived a chance of beating Nadal off clay than vice versa.


Interestingly though, since Monte Carlo 2006, Nadal was only deprived the chance of beating Federer in the final only once (Rome 2007). I think that the point is more that Federer is reaching the clay finals rather than that nadal is not reaching the non-clay finals.

rafa_maniac
06-19-2008, 08:07 PM
Whereas on clay since Monte Carlo 2006, Nadal was only deprived the chance of beating Federer in the final...once (Rome 2007). that's the point.

The point I was trying to make was that everyone blames the scewed head to head on Nadal's inability to regularly go far enough to meet Federer in tournaments off clay. I was trying to show that for the past 15 months or so this fact has been greatly exaggerated, and that on only one more occasion than Nadal has Federer made it to their supposed "meeting point" (ie final, or masters cup). If Nadal is doing better against Federer on the one surface where they are BOTH regularly making finals, the head to head isn't as useless as some people would like to believe.

Merton
06-19-2008, 10:34 PM
Rankings should be determined not on results, but on polling. Every Sunday MTF members send their rankings to the ATP, then the ATP publishes the results. :yeah:

l_mac
06-19-2008, 10:36 PM
Rankings should be determined not on results, but on polling. Every Sunday MTF members send their rankings to the ATP, then the ATP publishes the results. :yeah:

And instead of the race, the players should just decide what ranking they deserve (as pioneered by Murray)

groundstroke
06-19-2008, 10:53 PM
Yes, Murray who thinks that 12th seed is good enough, what a twat.

scarecrows
06-19-2008, 10:55 PM
Rankings should be determined not on results, but on polling. Every Sunday MTF members send their rankings to the ATP, then the ATP publishes the results. :yeah:

you want Safin on top of the ranking for a good decade?

Merton
06-19-2008, 11:07 PM
you want Safin on top of the ranking for a good decade?

Hopefully some of them will forget posting rankings. :shrug: Think of the upside: At least there is a chance the King will get the ranking that he deserves. :D

JediFed
06-19-2008, 11:13 PM
Random Draws. :D

elessar
06-19-2008, 11:34 PM
roughly 1200 points and 8 slams :dance:

fast_clay
06-20-2008, 01:05 AM
roughly 1200 points and 8 slams :dance:

heh heh... nice one...

this thread deserved a bit of disrespect like that...

Lillith
06-20-2008, 02:34 AM
roughly 1200 points and 8 slams :dance:


Is that you Pete? LOL.

dam0dred
06-20-2008, 02:47 AM
Even the most diehard Rafatards have to realize that the H2H is so skewed because they have played so much on clay. If Rafa would stop losing so early in hardcourt tournaments it would be a completely different scenario.