Rafa's RG Run: the most impressive in the modern era? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Rafa's RG Run: the most impressive in the modern era?

sawan66278
06-09-2008, 05:49 AM
After seeing Rafa STORM through the entire draw at this year's RG...culminating with the utter thrashings of #3 Novak Djokovic and possible GOAT Roger Federer...was this the most dominating run by a player in modern slam history. I say yes.

Voo, can you help?

As a Rafa fan, I am overjoyed: his legacy is preserved for all times.

One interesting note: isn't it ironic that the two champions at RG were Rafa and Ana: who were the players chosen for the draw ceremony? Hmm...

keroni
06-09-2008, 05:59 AM
well they were the defending champions, since Henin retired.

hra87
06-09-2008, 06:02 AM
Please refer to Borg '78 and '80.

Dougie
06-09-2008, 08:20 AM
Yup, no doubt Rafa´s run was impressive indeed, but so were some of Borg´s in the 1970´s.

marcRD
06-09-2008, 11:38 AM
Yes, it was.

groundstroke
06-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Very impressive from Rafa; but it was expected. Not as impressive as Gaudio's.

oz_boz
06-09-2008, 11:59 AM
IMO it was equal to Borg (who lost fewer games) in 78 and 80.

star
06-09-2008, 01:13 PM
IMO it was equal to Borg (who lost fewer games) in 78 and 80.

Except that Borg did it twice.

Also Borg beat Vilas who was another clay court legend. So, Nadal was great this year at Wimbledon, but maybe lacks and inch on Borg. If he wins next year, he surpasses Borg.

And, of course, Borg and the other players of his time weren't focused on records as are today's players -- well, maybe Vilas was. :lol:

MacTheKnife
06-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Except that Borg did it twice.

Also Borg beat Vilas who was another clay court legend. So, Nadal was great this year at Wimbledon, but maybe lacks and inch on Borg. If he wins next year, he surpasses Borg.

And, of course, Borg and the other players of his time weren't focused on records as are today's players -- well, maybe Vilas was. :lol:

Agree with this and it was a totally different time. Let's also remember that at the time, Borg just happened to be pulling off 5 straight Wimbledons. I would have liked to have seen Borg play with the racquet that Nadal uses, and Nadal with a wooden racquet and see how they look then.
Mac asked Borg how he would play Nadal, he replied, I would just be much more patient than most of the guys today are, the first set would probably last two hours. (paraphrase)
For those of you youngsters that didn't see Borg play, their ground strokes were similar (power difference due to equipment), biggest difference was IMO Borg had a much better serve. Won a lot more free points on server, hence, the success at Wimbledon too.

RonE
06-09-2008, 01:41 PM
After some of Borg's runs, as far as the scorelines go, yes without a dout.

Tom_Bombadil
06-09-2008, 01:57 PM
MacTheKnife, I also would like to see Borg's opponents play with today's rackets. ;) What you said it's biased.

OTOH, it's always easy to talk. I'm not gonna downgrade Bjorn Borg an inch, but Rafa's athletic skills are over the rest of the players of the world nowadays. Today tennis it's by far more exigent phisically speaking than in past years.

Okonsky
06-09-2008, 02:54 PM
One interesting note: isn't it ironic that the two champions at RG were Rafa and Ana: who were the players chosen for the draw ceremony? Hmm...

Yes. Acctually I tried to find this picture today but i'm failed:)

Well, they decided who will win:)

zcess81
06-09-2008, 03:01 PM
Rafa's domination at RG/Clay pales in comparison to Fed's domination at Wimbledon / USO / Australian Open / Hard courts. Rafa dominates only clay, where as Fed dominated ALL other surfaces for so long. No comparison.

DDrago2
06-09-2008, 03:03 PM
And, of course, Borg and the other players of his time weren't focused on records as are today's players -- well, maybe Vilas was. :lol:

They weren't indeed, but neither is Federer for that matter. It is medias who started that talk, probably because they didn't know how else to writte about Fed. And he himself is maybe the opposite of statistical hunter - he seems to just love the game

Jogy
06-09-2008, 03:48 PM
Given that today the players require more work to achieve a result like that, it was the most impressive in modern era ever what Nadal played.

You just can't compare the times of Borg when Borg had half of the opponents with a fat belly and when they played 70 mph forehands at best compare to today.

l_mac
06-09-2008, 04:02 PM
One interesting note: isn't it ironic that the two champions at RG were Rafa and Ana: who were the players chosen for the draw ceremony? Hmm...
Same thing happened last year with Rafa and Henin.
Rafa's domination at RG/Clay pales in comparison to Fed's domination at Wimbledon / USO / Australian Open / Hard courts. Rafa dominates only clay, where as Fed dominated ALL other surfaces for so long. No comparison.

sawan was talking about his dominance over this year's RG as opposed to any other slam winner's run.

Chiseller
06-09-2008, 04:17 PM
It's pretty obvious that Federer never dominated his opponents the way Rafa did this year at Paris. Who knows what we will see in the next few years.
About the comment to be patience against Nadal, try it and get worn out.

Sunset of Age
06-09-2008, 06:23 PM
It's pretty obvious that Federer never dominated his opponents the way Rafa did this year at Paris. Who knows what we will see in the next few years.

Obvious, indeed. Raf's RG 2008 wasn't 'just' domination, it was Total Demolition.

About the comment to be patience against Nadal, try it and get worn out.

Well, yes - the tactic of trying to beat him by staying patiently on the baseline and wait for his mistakes is going to get you beaten in straights. On the other side, TRYING to play aggressively but shanking all your attempts in the net or towards the moon... is going to get you beaten in straights, too. ;)

Bibberz
06-09-2008, 06:44 PM
I guess it depends what "impresses" you. I think Guga's 1997 run was more impressive, but I've never seen anyone dominate the tournament quite like Rafa just managed. I guess I'm more impressed by something surprising. Rafa elevating his level isn't that shocking. He's only now entering his prime--I would imagine.

prima donna
06-09-2008, 06:49 PM
Obvious, indeed.

What's so obvious about it ?

Sunset of Age
06-09-2008, 07:26 PM
What's so obvious about it ?

Well, it might be just me, but I saw those scorelines (not just that, I saw his matches as well, but you get my point) and I happened to think I barely ever have seen anyone so dominating as him in a GS. Fed in AO 2007 comes close, I admit, but the cherry on the cake for Raf's performance was beating Fed with a truly humiliating scoreline, so indeed, I think Raf's display is indeed the most dominating I've ever seen. :shrug:

prima donna
06-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Well, it might be just me, but I saw those scorelines (not just that, I saw his matches as well, but you get my point) and I happened to think I barely ever have seen anyone so dominating as him in a GS. Fed in AO 2007 comes close, I admit, but the cherry on the cake for Raf's performance was beating Fed with a truly humiliating scoreline, so indeed, I think Raf's display is indeed the most dominating I've ever seen. :shrug:
To imply that Nadal's run is "obviously" the most impressive in the modern era qualifies as what has come to be known on this board as a knee-jerk reaction.

It was more than an impressive display, but there are other factors to be taken into consideration when comparing performances, which also requires a bit of perspective, perhaps this thread would have generated more serious discussion had it been made at the end of the 2008 season.

Then again, I remember people saying 2006 Wimbledon was the most impressive Grand Slam run in the modern era, needless to say, I felt it wasn't the case then and I certainly don't feel that it is now.

Other players have existed in the history of tennis with the exception of Nadal and Federer, you do an injustice to them by using words like obvious where they really have no place.

Sunset of Age
06-09-2008, 07:41 PM
^^ Okay mate, I surrender. :)

scarecrows
06-09-2008, 07:41 PM
it's easier to bagel or breadstick a player on clay than on grass or hard court

MrChopin
06-09-2008, 07:42 PM
I don't know about modern era (I've seen only a limited number of extended clips from Borg and the 70s), but I had similar thoughts with respect to the last handful of years. Nadal's only poor match was his first. He should have beat Djokovic no worse than 6-4, 6-2, 6-3, but I think that the "number of games" is a little misleading because there are going to be less breaks of serve on faster surfaces (I think that Fed is the only guy to win a seven-match hardcourt slam without dropping a set, Borg the only guy on grass).

I think Rafa's RG '08 merits comparison with Fed's Wimbledon '06. Fed and Rafa played remarkable tennis throughout these two slams. I think that I would ultimately put it at #2 of those I've seen, second to Wimbledon '06. While Nadal cruised over Fed and Djokovic (as a contrast to Fed's sticky match with Nadal in '06), Nadal's first three opponents are relatively weak on clay. I think that Mahut is the only arguably weak grass-opponent that Fed faced at Wimbledon '06.

prima donna
06-09-2008, 07:44 PM
it's easier to bagel or breadstick a player on clay than on grass or hard court
Don't even bother. It's a waste of time.

dj_mercury
06-09-2008, 07:47 PM
This Federer run in Wimbledon 2006 was also impressive given that he faced only good grass players, but in the final his mental liability with Rafa didn't allowed him to win the tournament without loosing a set:

R128 Gasquet, Richard (FRA) 50 6-3 6-2 6-2 Stats
R64 Henman, Tim (GBR) 64 6-4 6-0 6-2 Stats
R32 Mahut, Nicolas (FRA) 77 6-3 7-6(2) 6-4 Stats
R16 Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 14 6-3 6-3 6-4 Stats
Q Ancic, Mario (CRO) 10 6-4 6-4 6-4 Stats
S Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE) 59 6-2 6-0 6-2 Stats
W Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 2 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3 Stats

fast_clay
06-09-2008, 07:50 PM
french open is over... old news...

dkw
06-09-2008, 08:09 PM
Don't even bother. It's a waste of time.

Oh, so you are alive!?! Well done!

Ballet tennis will make a comeback - someday :angel:

sawan66278
06-09-2008, 08:09 PM
Well, it might be just me, but I saw those scorelines (not just that, I saw his matches as well, but you get my point) and I happened to think I barely ever have seen anyone so dominating as him in a GS. Fed in AO 2007 comes close, I admit, but the cherry on the cake for Raf's performance was beating Fed with a truly humiliating scoreline, so indeed, I think Raf's display is indeed the most dominating I've ever seen. :shrug:

I agree with your statement COMPLETELY. And anyone will tell you, there are always more opportunities to break on clay. Domination on clay is generally seen as harder.

To imply that Nadal's run is "obviously" the most impressive in the modern era qualifies as what has come to be known on this board as a knee-jerk reaction.

It was more than an impressive display, but there are other factors to be taken into consideration when comparing performances, which also requires a bit of perspective, perhaps this thread would have generated more serious discussion had it been made at the end of the 2008 season.

Then again, I remember people saying 2006 Wimbledon was the most impressive Grand Slam run in the modern era, needless to say, I felt it wasn't the case then and I certainly don't feel that it is now.

Other players have existed in the history of tennis with the exception of Nadal and Federer, you do an injustice to them by using words like obvious where they really have no place.

But again: he humiliated the possible GOAT of all time (after defeating him the previous three years) in a fashion unseen in Roger's career. THIS is what makes it so dominating. The only other performance may be McEnroe in '84 at Wimbledon.

This Federer run in Wimbledon 2006 was also impressive given that he faced only good grass players, but in the final his mental liability with Rafa didn't allowed him to win the tournament without loosing a set:

R128 Gasquet, Richard (FRA) 50 6-3 6-2 6-2 Stats
R64 Henman, Tim (GBR) 64 6-4 6-0 6-2 Stats
R32 Mahut, Nicolas (FRA) 77 6-3 7-6(2) 6-4 Stats
R16 Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 14 6-3 6-3 6-4 Stats
Q Ancic, Mario (CRO) 10 6-4 6-4 6-4 Stats
S Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE) 59 6-2 6-0 6-2 Stats
W Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 2 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3 Stats

Thanks for the info! Again, the final takes away from the "utter domination" category.

prima donna
06-09-2008, 08:14 PM
But again: he humiliated the possible GOAT of all time (after defeating him the previous three years) in a fashion unseen in Roger's career. THIS is what makes it so dominating. The only other performance may be McEnroe in '84 at Wimbledon.

Roger is one of the greatest players of all time when playing on any surface that isn't clay.

Then again, some people probably are deluded enough to consider him amongst the Top 5 players to ever play at Roland Garros.

Aloimeh
06-10-2008, 04:29 AM
Now sawan, let's not be hypocritical here. If you diss the WTA, then you cannot possibly applaud the final of RG 2008. Nadal yes, but that final was abominable and I think there are many who would agree that the women's final was better.

CyBorg
06-10-2008, 04:51 AM
Given that today the players require more work to achieve a result like that, it was the most impressive in modern era ever what Nadal played.

You just can't compare the times of Borg when Borg had half of the opponents with a fat belly and when they played 70 mph forehands at best compare to today.

You're an idiot.

Knightmace
06-10-2008, 04:55 AM
It was impressive but if he wins another two RG in a row then he is truly the best clay court player in history.