Wilander's views on the FO Final [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Wilander's views on the FO Final

griffin_230
06-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Select "French Open: Game, Set & Mats" in "RELATED VIDEO" section on right (might have to scroll down a bit):
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/

Bernard Black
06-08-2008, 10:40 PM
Spot on as ever from Wilander.

If you don't have time to watch all that, he's basically saying he was disappointed that Federer never got fired up at any point, tried to hit his shots too flat with little margin for error, didn't change tactics to counter Nadal's ploy of serving to the backhand 99% of the time and that he predicts a tough match for Federer if they meet at Wimbledon.

GuiroNl
06-08-2008, 10:42 PM
Mats should go back to snorting some of that white powder because he's talking absolute rubbish. What kind of body language would he have if he'd get an absolute trashing :retard:

crude oil
06-08-2008, 10:45 PM
Mats should go back to snorting some of that white powder because he's talking absolute rubbish. What kind of body language would he have if he'd get an absolute trashing :retard:

yep...what should federer do? fist pump when he wins a point after being down 5-1. :lol:

elessar
06-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Only for european I'm afraid :p

star
06-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Spot on as ever from Wilander.

If you don't have time to watch all that, he's basically saying he was disappointed that Federer never got fired up at any point, tried to hit his shots too flat with little margin for error, didn't change tactics to counter Nadal's ploy of serving to the backhand 99% of the time and that he predicts a tough match for Federer if they meet at Wimbledon.

"only available in certain areas" :sad:

Clydey
06-08-2008, 11:03 PM
yep...what should federer do? fist pump when he wins a point after being down 5-1. :lol:

That's the difference between Nadal and Federer. Nadal get fired up after winning a point when 5-1 down. That's why he has come back from 5-1 down against Fed more than once recently and won the set. He is, quite simply, mental tougher and more determined that Fed.

Bernard Black
06-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Mats should go back to snorting some of that white powder because he's talking absolute rubbish. What kind of body language would he have if he'd get an absolute trashing :retard:

yep...what should federer do? fist pump when he wins a point after being down 5-1.

Remind me again how many French Opens you two jokers have between you? Wilander is an all-time clay great, have some respect for his opinion, he knows just a little more about tennis than you.

elessar
06-08-2008, 11:10 PM
He said it this year too :p

crude oil
06-08-2008, 11:10 PM
Remind me again how many French Opens you two jokers have between you? Wilander is an all-time clay great, have some respect for his opinion, he knows just a little more about tennis than you.

i guess we should always listen to the experts then (why have forums when there is no room for disagreement?). wilander has said many daft things such as the fact that federer would actually win last year. hes been wrong many times.
:wavey:

Manon
06-09-2008, 12:08 AM
Two weeks we ALL laughed over his 'observation' and, all of a sudden, 'Spot on as ever from Wilander'. As wind blowes....

Bernard Black
06-09-2008, 12:28 AM
Two weeks we ALL laughed over his 'observation' and, all of a sudden, 'Spot on as ever from Wilander'. As wind blowes....

Whatever. Federer got to the final, not many people predicted he would get that far so he wasn't far wrong.

Amazing how people on an internet forum suddenly think themselves experts compared to a guy who has actually won the tournament 3 times and knows what it takes to be successful as a pro on clay.

choppaa
06-09-2008, 12:51 AM
Yeah, he was a great player, it's a shame that he is now poor tennis expert and a devoted federer ass kisser.

Merton
06-09-2008, 12:58 AM
This seems to be part of a dialogue that Wilander and Corretja had off the record, I am not sure that it is appropriate that they were recorded, but here it comes: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=3432371

Corretja: We knew that could happen.



Wilander: But we hoped that when you've won 12 Grand Slams, you would give him a little bit of body language, so that maybe Rafa thinks that Roger thinks he has a chance.



Corretja: Yes, yes, yes.



Wilander: What's happening to all of them against Rafa? The only battle you can battle with him is in the mind. His tennis is too good. Show me a little fire.



Corretja: He gave up. Just ridiculous.



Wilander: I mean, show me some emotion. I don't want to waste my day watching a guy who's that good a player …


Corretja: Me too. I feel like he's probably the greatest, and now I feel like, I can't give you this.


Wilander: Exactly how I feel. I mean, you have to get emotionally involved. Otherwise, you're doing the wrong thing, you have the wrong job. I mean I understand the tactics, the tactics were OK. He was trying to hit the forehand early. He executed horribly.



Corretja: Still, for me -- it's 15-0 in the first game. He misses the first two forehands like this (holds hand close to ground). So flat, no thinking already, on the second point.



Wilander: How many let cords did he have? It's not bad luck.



Corretja: My [broadcast] partner said it was bad luck. I said no, it was bad playing.

fast_clay
06-09-2008, 12:59 AM
hey fuk yas shut the fuk up n leave mats alone... dude could party harder than yannick noah every other sunday and that fact alone makes his word gospel...

Aloimeh
06-09-2008, 01:23 AM
Two weeks we ALL laughed over his 'observation' and, all of a sudden, 'Spot on as ever from Wilander'. As wind blowes....

Wilander is very biased. He was asked about Ana's game and he responded by going on and on about Safina. He was also saying how Tsonga was the greatest or some such nonsense in January of this year. He is notoriously biased and his analyses are worthless.

JimmyV
06-09-2008, 01:23 AM
Federer was moping around the court like he had the handle of Rafa's racquet up his ass. He should have at least tried getting fired up, it's not like it could have gone any more poorly.

leng jai
06-09-2008, 01:28 AM
Watching Federer today reminded me of Roddick playing him...zzzz

Clay Death
06-09-2008, 01:33 AM
Federer was moping around the court like he had the handle of Rafa's racquet up his ass. He should have at least tried getting fired up, it's not like it could have gone any more poorly.



affirmative. Fed did display horrible body language. did you notice that he kept throwing his hand up in the air as if to suggest that there was nothing he could do. he was right but you need a better body language from somebody who has won 12 slams.

Bernard Black
06-09-2008, 01:37 AM
He is notoriously biased and his analyses are worthless.

And yet you opened the thread entitled "Wilander's views on the FO Final". Not so worthless afterall? :p

leng jai
06-09-2008, 01:38 AM
Wilander is very biased. He was asked about Ana's game and he responded by going on and on about Safina. He was also saying how Tsonga was the greatest or some such nonsense in January of this year. He is notoriously biased and his analyses are worthless.

Coming from Captain Objective himself.

Aloimeh
06-09-2008, 01:48 AM
And yet you opened the thread entitled "Wilander's views on the FO Final". Not so worthless afterall? :p

When did I start a thread like that? Find it, please.

Aloimeh
06-09-2008, 01:50 AM
Coming from Captain Objective himself.

At least I don't commentate for Eurosport and act in such a disgustingly unprofessional fashion. He grossly favored Tsonga over Djokovic at the AO, and Federer over Nadal and Safina over Ivanovic at the FO. Saying Roger has no testicles is also not exactly unbiased or professional.

Bernard Black
06-09-2008, 01:50 AM
When did I start a thread like that? Find it, please.

Use yer noggin' sunshine! I'm talking about this thread. :wavey:

rocketassist
06-09-2008, 01:51 AM
Mats should go back to snorting some of that white powder because he's talking absolute rubbish. What kind of body language would he have if he'd get an absolute trashing :retard:

Mats has walked the walk, and knows what it takes to be a champion. When he speaks, you listen.

trixtah
06-09-2008, 01:52 AM
That's the difference between Nadal and Federer. Nadal get fired up after winning a point when 5-1 down. That's why he has come back from 5-1 down against Fed more than once recently and won the set. He is, quite simply, mental tougher and more determined that Fed.

They're two unrelated things. Rafa and Roger would both fist pump at 5-1 down if they won a big point, but Roger didn't really have any set turning points in the entire match.

Aloimeh
06-09-2008, 01:54 AM
Use yer noggin' sunshine! I'm talking about this thread. :wavey:

Griffin 230 = Aloimeh?

rocketassist
06-09-2008, 02:00 AM
At least I don't commentate for Eurosport and act in such a disgustingly unprofessional fashion. He grossly favored Tsonga over Djokovic at the AO, and Federer over Nadal and Safina over Ivanovic at the FO. Saying Roger has no testicles is also not exactly unbiased or professional.

You remind me of the common fly which flies in to the house on a hot summer's day, buzzes loudly while I'm watching TV, and is an irritant to get rid of.

dmit424
06-09-2008, 02:03 AM
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2285/11189996/19843559/320587655.jpg

Bernard Black
06-09-2008, 02:05 AM
Griffin 230 = Aloimeh?

Aloimeh, I meant you opened the thread as in you clicked on it to view it. I didn't say you started the thread.

Aloimeh
06-09-2008, 02:10 AM
Aloimeh, I meant you opened the thread as in you clicked on it to view it. I didn't say you started the thread.

Okay, that was a misunderstanding. I open ridiculous threads to ridicule the contents.

CyBorg
06-09-2008, 02:11 AM
Interesting stuff. I agree that Roger was very stubborn to not cheat over to his backhand side on the return of serve. Rafa was killing him by going to his backhand.

SaFed2005
06-09-2008, 02:12 AM
That's the difference between Nadal and Federer. Nadal get fired up after winning a point when 5-1 down. That's why he has come back from 5-1 down against Fed more than once recently and won the set. He is, quite simply, mental tougher and more determined that Fed.

I completely agree with you. It was so sad to watch a player with Federer's talent play such dumb tennis with no changeup plan at all. Considering he has so many different shots that he can try to use... all i saw was him going for one flat high risk shot after another... it just reminded me of Roddick's one dimension play .... fed sure wasn't far from it today and never changed tactics at any point in the match. This was probably the worst match I have seen him play mentally... and watching a player I have so much respect for have that kind of body language right from the 2nd point of the match makes me sad and lose a bit of respect for him.
He couldve atleast put up a fight... there was absolutely NO variations in his shots at all

star
06-09-2008, 02:13 AM
This seems to be part of a dialogue that Wilander and Corretja had off the record, I am not sure that it is appropriate that they were recorded, but here it comes: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=3432371

Corretja: We knew that could happen.



Wilander: But we hoped that when you've won 12 Grand Slams, you would give him a little bit of body language, so that maybe Rafa thinks that Roger thinks he has a chance.



Corretja: Yes, yes, yes.



Wilander: What's happening to all of them against Rafa? The only battle you can battle with him is in the mind. His tennis is too good. Show me a little fire.



Corretja: He gave up. Just ridiculous.



Wilander: I mean, show me some emotion. I don't want to waste my day watching a guy who's that good a player …


Corretja: Me too. I feel like he's probably the greatest, and now I feel like, I can't give you this.


Wilander: Exactly how I feel. I mean, you have to get emotionally involved. Otherwise, you're doing the wrong thing, you have the wrong job. I mean I understand the tactics, the tactics were OK. He was trying to hit the forehand early. He executed horribly.



Corretja: Still, for me -- it's 15-0 in the first game. He misses the first two forehands like this (holds hand close to ground). So flat, no thinking already, on the second point.



Wilander: How many let cords did he have? It's not bad luck.



Corretja: My [broadcast] partner said it was bad luck. I said no, it was bad playing.

Thank you. I didn't know before that it was a conversation between Wilander and Corretja. Somehow that makes the tenor of the conversation a bit different.

star
06-09-2008, 02:14 AM
Interesting stuff. I agree that Roger was very stubborn to not cheat over to his backhand side on the return of serve. Rafa was killing him by going to his backhand.


He did cheat, but he couldn't stand beyond the doubles alley. Nadal would have just put it down the T.

octatennis
06-09-2008, 02:34 AM
I completely agree with you. It was so sad to watch a player with Federer's talent play such dumb tennis with no changeup plan at all. Considering he has so many different shots that he can try to use... all i saw was him going for one flat high risk shot after another... it just reminded me of Roddick's one dimension play .... fed sure wasn't far from it today and never changed tactics at any point in the match. This was probably the worst match I have seen him play mentally... and watching a player I have so much respect for have that kind of body language right from the 2nd point of the match makes me sad and lose a bit of respect for him.
He couldve atleast put up a fight... there was absolutely NO variations in his shots at all



is the first time i saw federer enter to the court against nadal with a strategy, if you realized federer play his forehand with top-spin over rafa's backhand what give him time to accomodate and attack(didn't work because he risk too much). and nadal always find the way to control the point, and the most federer changed his game the most rafa found the way to answer.

CyBorg
06-09-2008, 03:05 AM
He did cheat, but he couldn't stand beyond the doubles alley. Nadal would have just put it down the T.

I didn't think he cheated nearly enough.

Kolya
06-09-2008, 03:09 AM
Obviously Wilander is the greatest clay court player ever!

star
06-09-2008, 03:10 AM
I didn't think he cheated nearly enough.

No, I know you didn't think he cheated enough, but he ran a big risk by cheating more than he did.

I suppose he could jump out there when Nadal was in the ball toss, but that's kind of low percentage, and once you've done that a couple of times, you're going to get burned down the T.

At least that's the way I see it.

Probably he could have cheated more on the side where Nadal was serving down the T.

maskedmuffin
06-09-2008, 03:10 AM
i want to have a conversation with alex corretja as to why he didnt go up the line while sampras was puking at 6-5 mp up in 1996, rather went back cross court.

and why were his eyes as big as incandescent bulbs that night?

crude oil
06-09-2008, 04:47 AM
i want to have a conversation with alex corretja as to why he didnt go up the line while sampras was puking at 6-5 mp up in 1996, rather went back cross court.

and why were his eyes as big as incandescent bulbs that night?

:haha:

too good.

crude oil
06-09-2008, 04:48 AM
wilander reportedly smoke coke or some drug during his tennis days.

i wouldnt be surprised if he was still doing it.

:haha:

i like mats even if he can be controversial at times.

Kolya
06-09-2008, 05:10 AM
wilander reportedly smoke coke or some drug during his tennis days.

i wouldnt be surprised if he was still doing it.

:haha:

i like mats even if he can be controversial at times.

You don't smoke coke mate.

crude oil
06-09-2008, 05:12 AM
You don't smoke coke mate.

snort, sniff whatever...it shows i dont do the stuff.

Or Levy
06-09-2008, 06:15 AM
Hmmmm.

First of all, I agree with the technical aspects Mats pointed out, Roger tried something, and it totally backfired, it was just his day regarding execution those high risk shots, and the net cords - very unusual, and not even one slide off the other side of the net, they all jumped into the air to give Rafa PLENTY of time to get there.

But I have a hard time living with the fact that Mats just apologized for Roger for the things he said about him less than a week ago, and then goes on the attack again.

And most of all I feel bad for Roger, that this somehow hurt the GOAT debate regardless of the fact he lost, just because of the way he did it.

bokehlicious
06-09-2008, 07:14 AM
You don't smoke coke mate.

How about crack? :angel: :)

nanoman
06-09-2008, 07:21 AM
Empty statements by Mat. Just need find something to talk about after such a bad final.
Today it was his body language, pffff... just not Federer's style. When Federer was coming back from matches, he was always praised for his calm and serenity and not losing his cool. :rolleyes:

Previous years, so called expert were all whining that Fed should go to net, not trading topspin shots with Nadal from the baseline, need to take more risk. And now they are saying Fed hits too flat ?! :haha:

But what do you know ? Losers are always wrong, analyst are always right.

t0x
06-09-2008, 08:51 AM
He's been too passive the past 2 years, this year he was too aggressive?

Well that's sort of right to be honest. You need to find a perfect balance to beat Rafa on clay, and Roger can't seem to find it. Roger is going to have to hope Rafa has a bad day one year.

It was a horrible final to watch. Watching the highlights on the BBC iPlayer gives tennis a bad image - unforced errors constituted most of the 'highlights'.

zcess81
06-09-2008, 09:07 AM
This was certainly the worst final I can remember in a long time. Plenty of finals were over in 3 sets, but this was just terrible...WTA like.

Bazooka
06-09-2008, 09:47 AM
People attacking Federer's mentality should consider that all other good players Nadal faced this week looked like silly mugs, except Nole for 20 minutes.

With Nadal, and in this court, it's simply not possible to play your own game. He's human, and I imagine he felt truly bad when he noticed he couldn't win. He watched how Nole in the semi hit the balls just after they bounced, not stepping back, and that gave him a 6-4 plus a tiebreak. He tried the same, but I'm afraid his skills are not anymore ready for such a risky job. Must have been very hard for him to realize that. Kudos for Roger for his past years, respect him in defeat.

Bilbo
06-09-2008, 09:57 AM
Wilander's acknowledge about tennis is shocking

scoobs
06-09-2008, 10:05 AM
Yeah, he lost, he got whoreslapped, and it was bad.

Everyone and his dog is bound to have advice and an opinion on the subject, but it's done with, it can't be undone, so whatever, move on :)

Bernard Black
06-09-2008, 10:25 AM
Empty statements by Mat. Just need find something to talk about after such a bad final.
Today it was his body language, pffff... just not Federer's style. When Federer was coming back from matches, he was always praised for his calm and serenity and not losing his cool. :rolleyes:

Previous years, so called expert were all whining that Fed should go to net, not trading topspin shots with Nadal from the baseline, need to take more risk. And now they are saying Fed hits too flat ?! :haha:

But what do you know ? Losers are always wrong, analyst are always right.

Did you see last year's Wimbledon final? Federer got fired up and showed very strong body language in the final set - there was no way he was going to lose that match. Wilander has a point here, whether you like it or not.

Also, his point about Federer hitting his shots too flat was due to the extraordinary number of times Roger clipped the tape, as he said, that is not down to luck. He was intimating that Roger could have perhaps been more patient and work the opportunities in the point - but of course this is easier said than done against Nadal. Mats also said during his commentary, he wouldn't wish net play against Nadal on clay on his worst enemy and certainly not serve and volley. So it really would have been an extremely fine balance of tactics for Federer to have at least made the match close such was the height of the task.

As Scoobs said though, time to move on and enjoy the grass season :)

marcRD
06-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Wilander was right to attack Federer today, before he was wrong to attack Federer. Federer did a good job getting those sets from Nadal previous years and his tactics where spot on, exactly the right tactics of how to potentialy win a set from Nadal. Today he was overambitious and his body language was not good at all.

nanoman
06-09-2008, 11:56 AM
I agree that mindless attacking is a poor tactic and that working the point is the way to go. I have been saying that for 2 years !

But my point was, that 2 years ago the very same Mats Wilander was attacking Fed for not having balls to attack the net. Even then every moron could see that netrushing is a poor tactic. Just want to expose the hypocrisy of all those commentators and analyst alike who have been advocating serve and volley for the past 2 years.

As for Wimbledon final. Fed was completely calm except for that one moment he felt he was done injustice by Hawkeye. Besides, Fed was never in such a poor situation as he was yesterday.

Burrow
06-09-2008, 12:10 PM
Whatever. Federer got to the final, not many people predicted he would get that far so he wasn't far wrong.

Amazing how people on an internet forum suddenly think themselves experts compared to a guy who has actually won the tournament 3 times and knows what it takes to be successful as a pro on clay.

Exactly, the guys on these forums laugh at what the professional's say. Which makes me laugh. :p

Burrow
06-09-2008, 12:14 PM
I'll miss game set and mats, will it be back at the US Open?

star
06-09-2008, 12:22 PM
He's been too passive the past 2 years, this year he was too aggressive?

Well that's sort of right to be honest. You need to find a perfect balance to beat Rafa on clay, and Roger can't seem to find it. Roger is going to have to hope Rafa has a bad day one year.

It was a horrible final to watch. Watching the highlights on the BBC iPlayer gives tennis a bad image - unforced errors constituted most of the 'highlights'.

That's too bad. They might have put together a montage of Nadal's marvelous winners. :) :)

MacTheKnife
06-09-2008, 12:59 PM
How many players in the discussion for "GOAT" even went to 3 FO finals. I'll help, NONE. Nadal played the match and tournament of his life. Can take nothing form Nadal. Fed finally showed he is "really" human and $ucked for an entire match. Anybody else here play tennis, has that ever happened to you ?? One of those days when you simply can't find your a$$ with both hands. Boy I've had them, every player that's ever played has had them, and Fed had his Sunday.

Congrats to Nadal, but you can bet, Nadal knows he may never see that kind of performance from Fed again..

octatennis
06-09-2008, 01:08 PM
Wilander was right to attack Federer today, before he was wrong to attack Federer. Federer did a good job getting those sets from Nadal previous years and his tactics where spot on, exactly the right tactics of how to potentialy win a set from Nadal. Today he was overambitious and his body language was not good at all.

not just federer's overambitious and body lenguage, the thing is that federer is not as good as last year as 06,just look his backhand, it was a lethal weapon until this year with the whole thing of the monoclueosis hi lost too much confidence,of himsef and his game.

scoobs
06-09-2008, 01:10 PM
I don't think it's so much a question of aggressive/passive as it is about patience.

Borg and McEnroe collectively hit the nail on the head, I thought, when they were talking and Borg said he'd be very very patient against Nadal and McEnroe asked if that meant a 2 hour set, and Borg said yeah because you have to be prepared to be out on court a long time to beat Nadal. And I don't think Federer is.

The other thing great claycourt players do is hit with purpose, they try to make every shot have a purpose within their tactic to win the point - not a winner, or a point ending shot, but more than just a rallying shot to keep the ball in play.

Nadal's forehand to Roger's backhand is the obvious example - he's rarely hitting winners but his shots are designed to pressurize that groundstroke in his opponent and cough up errors sooner or later or give him weaker balls to attack.

I don't think Roger tries to build points in that sort of way.

Jogy
06-09-2008, 02:46 PM
They all were jokes and I can't standing Borg, Wilander and all them anymore how they kiss Federer's ass and how they wanted him to win the final and picked him to win it.

marcRD
06-10-2008, 01:58 AM
I don't think it's so much a question of aggressive/passive as it is about patience.

Borg and McEnroe collectively hit the nail on the head, I thought, when they were talking and Borg said he'd be very very patient against Nadal and McEnroe asked if that meant a 2 hour set, and Borg said yeah because you have to be prepared to be out on court a long time to beat Nadal. And I don't think Federer is.

The other thing great claycourt players do is hit with purpose, they try to make every shot have a purpose within their tactic to win the point - not a winner, or a point ending shot, but more than just a rallying shot to keep the ball in play.

Nadal's forehand to Roger's backhand is the obvious example - he's rarely hitting winners but his shots are designed to pressurize that groundstroke in his opponent and cough up errors sooner or later or give him weaker balls to attack.

I don't think Roger tries to build points in that sort of way.

I agree with you, but I dont think Federer can build a point against Nadal, he just doesnt get the oppurtunity anymore on clay. Nadal hits too deep and with too much topspin for Federer to really control points, Federer said himself that before Nadal could hit some short balls and give Federer oppurtunity to control the point, this doesnt happen anymore. Federer was really wrong when he thought he would be in control of the match, he clearly had not been watching Nadals matches this year. Now all hope there is for Federer is to not face Nadal again on clay in RG.

Fedex
06-10-2008, 03:33 AM
Interesting stuff. I agree that Roger was very stubborn to not cheat over to his backhand side on the return of serve. Rafa was killing him by going to his backhand.

He did cheat, but he should have cheated even more. I don't think Nadal hit a single first serve to his forehand for the entire match; not one!!!

Fedex
06-10-2008, 03:37 AM
They all were jokes and I can't standing Borg, Wilander and all them anymore how they kiss Federer's ass and how they wanted him to win the final and picked him to win it.

Jealousy and obsession are a dangerous mix.

Knightmace
06-10-2008, 03:52 AM
Spot on as ever from Wilander.

If you don't have time to watch all that, he's basically saying he was disappointed that Federer never got fired up at any point, tried to hit his shots too flat with little margin for error, didn't change tactics to counter Nadal's ploy of serving to the backhand 99% of the time and that he predicts a tough match for Federer if they meet at Wimbledon.
I don't know what's wrong with him, he still wins matches but not that good against the top 5 players.

alfonsojose
06-10-2008, 04:07 AM
Case of the ex.. ex-tennis player. :zzz: they don't have lifes after tennis :rolleyes:

crude oil
06-10-2008, 05:41 AM
Empty statements by Mat. Just need find something to talk about after such a bad final.
Today it was his body language, pffff... just not Federer's style. When Federer was coming back from matches, he was always praised for his calm and serenity and not losing his cool. :rolleyes:

Previous years, so called expert were all whining that Fed should go to net, not trading topspin shots with Nadal from the baseline, need to take more risk. And now they are saying Fed hits too flat ?! :haha:

But what do you know ? Losers are always wrong, analyst are always right.


agree.

well its obvious really. clay courters like corretja will say fed needs to play more patient while mcenroe, cahill etc will say federer needs to come to net. it just depends on which style the former player is more biased to

wilander also flip flops on his views. he said roger should attack and rush the net just to try something different.

federer played the right way last year. you have to be doing something right if you get 17 breakpoints in match. what you have to analyze is why you arent winning those points.

its the same story really. federer makes the mistakes when it matters and nadal doesnt.

Beforehand
06-10-2008, 07:57 AM
The thing I kept thinking throughout this match was "Has Federer never ever watched a Ferrer/Nadal match?" Like people were saying, even Nadal fans, attack the forehand, and come in off of tough defensive shots on that wing if you have to, for the love of God. That and drop-shotting the backhand were criminally underused, and they are two of the better plays against Rafa.

NOTE: Please nobody pretend that I intimated that either of those tactics would work 100% of the time against the boy. There would naturally have been times that those tactics would have been a horrible failure waiting to happen, but in general, they are smart plays, I think. Especially attacking the forehand. There was one point I can remember, I think, where he actually nailed one at the Nadal forehand, and drew an error. I can't remember him doing it before then or doing it again. Not even close to enough of that.

scoobs
06-10-2008, 08:55 AM
I truly wonder sometimes how Federer doesn't just explode and yell at everyone

"IF YOU THINK IT'S SO EASY WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A GO!!!"

Richard Gasquet once said everyone had an opinion on how he should play, even the Roland Garros janitor.

For Federer and the challenge to beat Nadal on clay, it's even worse. Literally everyone and his dog has an opinion, from fans on message boards, to all the tennis greats who are still around the game. They all have an opinion and they're often mutually contradictory.

Since Nadal became "Nadal" nobody has beaten him on clay when he's been anything like 100% in terms of fitness or energy levels.

It's not like other people are doing it so why can't Roger.

Nobody has figured this out, and Roger has come closer than all the rest, but he's still a long way off.

And I don't see that changing any time soon.

We may one day look back on Nadal's career in the certainty that he was the best ever on clay, because when he was anywhere near his best, nobody could ever find the elusive combination of power, control, patience, offense, defense, consisistency and stamina to get past him. Federer at Rome in 2006 and Coria at Rome in 2005 may be as close as it gets until Nadal himself declines.

Bibberz
06-10-2008, 09:48 AM
I think it's hilarious how, after ten matches on clay, the unsolicited advice has gotten worse and worse. For example, people used to tell Roger to approach more and more like it would cure everything. Now they just tell Roger to approach "at the right time"--when the hell is the right time? Federer can't hang around the back of the court forever against Nadal. I don't really fault Federer for approaching prematurely because the longer the rally goes on, the worse off he'll be.

Clydey
06-10-2008, 10:16 AM
They're two unrelated things. Rafa and Roger would both fist pump at 5-1 down if they won a big point, but Roger didn't really have any set turning points in the entire match.

Not true. Rafa looks to fire himself up at any opportunity. I will give you an example.

Tsonga is 2 sets and 2 breaks up in the AO 08 semi-final. He is serving for the match. He hits an approach and comes to the net. Nadal passes him, does a fist pump and shouts "Vamos!"

Nadal never throws in the towel the way Roger does. He keeps going no matter what the scoreline is and gets himself fired up whenever he wins a point. Federer simply does not do that and concede the match in a manner not befitting a champion.

Castafiore
06-10-2008, 11:02 AM
I truly wonder sometimes how Federer doesn't just explode and yell at everyone

"IF YOU THINK IT'S SO EASY WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A GO!!!"
Well, he hasn't exploded like that but didn't he once ask a journalist (who kept making suggestions on how to play against Nadal) during a press conference: you try it and see what if feels like against Nadal (on clay)? (paraphrasing)

Anybody have that quote?

DDrago2
06-10-2008, 11:18 AM
Nadal never throws in the towel the way Roger does. He keeps going no matter what the scoreline is and gets himself fired up whenever he wins a point. Federer simply does not do that and concede the match in a manner not befitting a champion.

Wrong. Nadal and Federer motivate themselves very differently and spend energy differently and superficialy it looks like Nadal is a much bigger fighter but you are fooled to believe what you wrote

Burrow
06-10-2008, 11:30 AM
Federer had the right mentality throughout most of the match, as Wilander said, his executution was just shocking.

Bernard Black
06-10-2008, 11:33 AM
Wrong. Nadal and Federer motivate themselves very differently and spend energy differently and superficialy it looks like Nadal is a much bigger fighter but you are fooled to believe what you wrote

Of course Federer is a great fighter. You don't get to number 1 unless you have that kind of extra resolve and motivation to win every match you play.

I think the point about body language that Wilander made though, was more referring to the times Nadal hit a passing winner, there's no doubting Federer's body language was saying "too good Rafa, there's nothing I can do here, you are the best". When a bit more "shit, I fucked up there! But that aint gonna happen again." was maybe needed.

As I mentioned earlier though, this is all academic. It may have made the result closer, but Nadal was just way too solid in every department. Still, it is fun to discuss the possibilities and what ifs though, otherwise I wouldn't be here ;)

Burrow
06-10-2008, 11:41 AM
He did cheat, but he should have cheated even more. I don't think Nadal hit a single first serve to his forehand for the entire match; not one!!!

That isn't cheating.

leng jai
06-10-2008, 11:41 AM
That isn't cheating.

Do you understand what cheating means in this context?

Bernard Black
06-10-2008, 11:54 AM
Do you understand what cheating means in this context?

Didn't you notice the clown costume Federer was wearing? The spinning bow-tie was clearly distracting Nadal whilst serving - therefore cheating.

Beforehand
06-10-2008, 12:55 PM
I truly wonder sometimes how Federer doesn't just explode and yell at everyone

"IF YOU THINK IT'S SO EASY WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A GO!!!"

Richard Gasquet once said everyone had an opinion on how he should play, even the Roland Garros janitor.

For Federer and the challenge to beat Nadal on clay, it's even worse. Literally everyone and his dog has an opinion, from fans on message boards, to all the tennis greats who are still around the game. They all have an opinion and they're often mutually contradictory.

Since Nadal became "Nadal" nobody has beaten him on clay when he's been anything like 100% in terms of fitness or energy levels.

It's not like other people are doing it so why can't Roger.

Nobody has figured this out, and Roger has come closer than all the rest, but he's still a long way off.

And I don't see that changing any time soon.

We may one day look back on Nadal's career in the certainty that he was the best ever on clay, because when he was anywhere near his best, nobody could ever find the elusive combination of power, control, patience, offense, defense, consisistency and stamina to get past him. Federer at Rome in 2006 and Coria at Rome in 2005 may be as close as it gets until Nadal himself declines.

That's fine, but what do we do about that?

marcRD
06-10-2008, 01:47 PM
Borg was right, Federer needs to be more patient. Fine, this time he tried the aggresive forehands and netrusing, but the only time he won and I dont care if Nadal was tired as hell was the time he was more patient than ever against Nadal in Hamburg 2007. He rarely went to the net and he just waited long rallies to get oppurtunites to end the point or Nadal to make ues. You cant go to the net against the greatest passing shots of all time on clay unless it is to end a point and you already have Nadal offbalance. Federer should stop thinking about this obsession of going to the net to defeat Nadal. It is probably too late now, the damage is already done but next clay season Federer should focus on his baseline abilities and find a coach who can just do something slightly different with that backhand, I would like to see more of those crazy angles with the backhand Federer rarely produces but always with great effect when he does and also some real attacks on Nadals 2nd serve.

scoobs
06-10-2008, 01:50 PM
That's fine, but what do we do about that?
This is my point - I think it's out of the hands of the players at the moment. When Nadal is that solid, fit and playing well enough, there's nobody out the to take him.