Radek Stepanek... grow up [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Radek Stepanek... grow up

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 10:22 AM
That behavior against Ferrer was crap. Radek played very well, his game is rare to see nowadays and I enjoyed it, but he was hardly respectful to his rival.

The gestures, celebrations, and intimidating stares to his rival were very cheap. He was annoying. Specially in the fifth when he started celebrating not only his winners, but every UE from Ferrer, even if it was not a BP or anything. He would start running left and right with his fist up whenever Ferrer sent a ball to the net. Pathetic.:rolleyes:

IMO, that was a much worse case of gamemanship than those of Djokovic. He should have saved all that energy, or concentrating a little more on serve (he basically double faulted himself out of the match after coming back in the fifth).:confused:

I had never seen such a clown in the court, ever.

BTW, Ferrer got angry and broke his racquet on his knee... again. Not good behavior either, but I doubt it was premeditated or it helped him at all, unlike what Stepanek did.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 10:27 AM
Someone just started watching tennis yesterday it seems. He has done that for ages, that's the way he is, you don't have to like it and this is not exactly news.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/svein_sveynsson/5c3fc60407d2cda5eb4c660aa1549792-ge.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/svein_sveynsson/324a07691dd223690d3c8f0a22dd9861-ge.jpg

Bilbo
06-03-2008, 10:28 AM
the worm

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 10:30 AM
I had never seen him before, but I am sorry, I have watched tennis for many years now. However it's hard to see an event out of Slams or AMS events on Spanish TV, so my knowledge outside these tournaments is low... however, I think this 4th round is one of his top achievements, so his fault, not mine!

TheSwissMaster
06-03-2008, 10:37 AM
watch his recent match against roger in rome, he was really getting on my nerves

but he has been doing this now for...

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 10:37 AM
I had never seen him before, but I am sorry, I have watched tennis for many years now. However it's hard to see an event out of Slams or AMS events on Spanish TV, so my knowledge outside these tournaments is low... however, I think this 4th round is one of his top achievements, so his fault, not mine!

Proves what exactly? He has made TMS finals, 2 of them even and a QF at Wimbledon, but I didn't know Spain was located in Burkina Faso that he coverage was that poor.

Not bad for a guy in 2002 was strictly a doubles specialist.

Funny enough he lost to a Spaniard in Robredo in one of those TMS finals.

Here it is. People bitch that players don't show emotion and they are robots, then when someone does some antics and expresses themselves, then they should shut up.

Nadal taking 3hrs in between points that's gamesmanship.
Djokovic with 95 ball bounces on big points that's it as well.
Stepanek's antics have been called gamesmanship and it's easy to see why.

Those 3 things above are gamesmanship, just done in a different manner.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 10:41 AM
u dont have to watch him for 5 years to see that he's a clown on court.

he forces a tough mental game onto his opponent , and people overcritize him because he's (arguably) physically unattractive.

lets face it , he looks like someone who eats babies.

Herdwick
06-03-2008, 10:42 AM
Stepanek really has done this for ages - it's not new - but he has had quite a few injuries so people may not be as familiar with him. He's an acquired taste, admittedly, but he's an one-off in both character and appearance, an aggressive player and usually great to watch. Have always liked him.

IAMlegend
06-03-2008, 10:45 AM
At times I thought it was a bit much. Hey, If I had Vadisova waiting at home for me...I'd be demonstrative, too. Wait a minute...I think I do.;)







Monfils! Pome!

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 10:49 AM
Proves what exactly? He has made TMS finals, 2 of them even and a QF at Wimbledon, but I didn't know Spain was located in Burkina Faso that he coverage was that poor.

Not bad for a guy in 2002 was strictly a doubles specialist.

Funny enough he lost to a Spaniard in Robredo in one of those TMS finals..

The fact that I have not seen this before proves what exactly? I can't see every match, unfortunately I can only watch TV on weekends. However, the fact that I have to speak about my TV schedules shows you're really arguing in the wrong direction... he's annoying, no matter it's old news.


Here it is. People bitch that players don't show emotion and they are robots, then when someone does some antics and expresses themselves, then they should shut up.

Nadal taking 3hrs in between points that's gamesmanship.
Djokovic with 95 ball bounces on big points that's it as well.
Stepanek's antics have been called gamesmanship and it's easy to see why.

Those 3 things above are gamesmanship, just done in a different manner.

Not really. This is a matter of opinion, you see, I can't prove anything. But for me, the line is pretty clear. When I think the players are just seeking concentration, or self-motivation, it's not gamemanship. If it affects the rival, it's the job of the umpire to remind them. However, sometimes a player tries to influence his rival with this kind of behavior. That's gamemanship for me, and yesterday it was pretty obvious (for me) that Radek was aware of Pics being somewhat unstable, and trying to get on his nerves.

Renaud
06-03-2008, 10:50 AM
I read Ferrer's behaviour was awful during the match (threw his towel right in a ball boy's face, broke his racket)...

Can anyone confirm it ?

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 10:56 AM
I read Ferrer's behaviour was awful during the match (threw his towel right in a ball boy's face, broke his racket)...

Can anyone confirm it ?

During maybe ten minutes, he was totally out of his mind after losing the 2nd. However, I don't think he throwed the towel intentionally to the boy's face, he just throwed it away in anger. Was not nice to watch, he was also shouting to himself in spanish, I could get sometimes "Always the same, on some games I can't feel the ball" and crazy stuff like that.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 10:58 AM
Nadal taking 3hrs in between points that's gamesmanship.
Djokovic with 95 ball bounces on big points that's it as well.


no , how can that be gamesmanship? i mean have you seen those 2 players play ?

the timeouts are gamesmanship but this is far from it.


generally it could be used as a gamesmanship technique but nadal's and djokovic's serve ritual is not that.

Mimi
06-03-2008, 11:00 AM
ferrer sometimes did not behave that well too, in his match vs nadal in Monte Claros, when the empire ruled against him, he grabbed the empire's arms with anger, wanting to drag him to watch the mark again even he already did so, murmurded words of angry, throwing rackets ....... :unsure:, so its a bit strange for me that many said he is nice off court :scratch:

so Radek is not that bad coz many did the same :p

Sunset of Age
06-03-2008, 11:06 AM
ferrer sometimes did not behave that well too, in his match vs nadal in Monte Claros, when the empire ruled against him, he grabbed the empire's arms with anger, wanting to drag him to watch the mark again even he already did so, murmurded words of angry, throwing rackets ....... :unsure:, so its a bit strange for me that many said he is nice off court :scratch:

so Radek is not that bad coz many did the same :p

Both of these fellows seem to be very expressive on court. Rather amusing, really.

As for David, he's very passionate on court, I've seen him smash rackets many times. From what I know, he's quite the opposite off court - a very friendly guy.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:06 AM
no , how can that be gamesmanship? i mean have you seen those 2 players play ?

the timeouts are gamesmanship but this is far from it.


generally it could be used as a gamesmanship technique but nadal's and djokovic's serve ritual is not that.

I think I have watched tennis before.

If you are taking more than 25 sec in between points, no matter how you do it , then it's gamesmanship and he should get warned for going over time, but that's the umpire's problem and responsibility and should be watching it.

The excess bouncing while it helps Nole to steady himself before a big point and helps his focus on his breathing, it's off putting to the opponent and deliberately breaks up the rhythm. Odesnik took the piss out of it in their match and got the point across about the ball bouncing, so yes it's a form of gamesmanship.

Don't even try the I'm anti-Nole agenda.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:09 AM
Guys, I know Ferrer is not the best example of calmness and behavior. In fact, he's very stupid sometimes.

What I'm saying is, I play tennis as amateur, and many times I've played against slow servers, etc. But if I had ever played against a guy that celebrates my UEs even when they are not important points, I would ask him if he's trying to get my racquet in his asshole. I don't see how this crap that no one does even in amateur tennis or pro tennis elsewhere should be watched on TV on the second week of a slam.

ssin
06-03-2008, 11:11 AM
I like Radek. And I would say he is 10 times classier than Ferrer if I were to compare these two. What we might see in Radek is excessive joy, I would always pick that over excessive anger or something. Especially after this match, Radek is firmly set as the second on my list of favourite players, not least beacuse of his versatile, eye-pleasing style.

Mimi
06-03-2008, 11:14 AM
i agree with you to some extent, excessive joy is better than throwing tandrums :wavey:

but if radek is cheering when opponents are making errros, then its not that nice ;)
I like Radek. And I would say he is 10 times classier than Ferrer if I were to compare these two. What we might see in Radek is excessive joy, I would always pick that over excessive anger or something. Especially after this match, Radek is firmly set as the second on my list of favourite players, not least beacuse of his versatile, eye-pleasing style.

Allegretto
06-03-2008, 11:14 AM
Stepanek: Officially more entertaining than your favourite player.

zcess81
06-03-2008, 11:16 AM
The real surprise to me is that Ferrer (or any other opponent for that matter) didn't jump over the net and smacked him in the face after one of his annoying fits. Ferrer must be a very patient man.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Guys, I know Ferrer is not the best example of calmness and behavior. In fact, he's very stupid sometimes.

What I'm saying is, I play tennis as amateur, and many times I've played against slow servers, etc. But if I had ever played against a guy that celebrates my UEs even when they are not important points, I would ask him if he's trying to get my racquet in his asshole. I don't see how this crap that no one does even in amateur tennis or pro tennis elsewhere should be watched on TV on the second week of a slam.

If you play a person like this, use it your advantage. Play the ball and not the man, funnier is when you beat him, just makes it that much sweeter. If you get pissed off from it, then they are going to do it more.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 11:19 AM
I think I have watched tennis before.

If you are taking more than 25 sec in between points, no matter how you do it , then it's gamesmanship and he should get warned for going over time, but that's the umpire's problem and responsibility and should be watching it.

The excess bouncing while it helps Nole to steady himself before a big point and helps his focus on his breathing, it's off putting to the opponent and deliberately breaks up the rhythm. Odesnik took the piss out of it in their match and got the point across about the ball bouncing, so yes it's a form of gamesmanship.

Don't even try the I'm anti-Nole agenda.

Keyword is in bold.They dont do it with the sole purpose to disrupt their opponent, and if u insist that u are not anti-nole biased , then i can only think that u have poor judgement on the matter.

Maybe i dont see nole's dark side... but how can nadal be a badguy to you ? A guy with half a dozen tics is bound to take more time (average) to serve . And its the umpire's problem. Nadal has been given penalties unoften, so it actually works against him.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:22 AM
If you play a person like this, use it your advantage. Play the ball and not the man, funnier is when you beat him, just makes it that much sweeter. If you get pissed off from it, then they are going to do it more.

I agree with you here, but things are different when you're in the court. I have never met someone that celebrates my errors, not even when it was an important point (which I would understand)so can't say what would my reaction be.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:24 AM
Stepanek: Officially more entertaining than your favourite player.

LOL, yeah. My favourite players are boring to watch.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:25 AM
Keyword is in bold.It's not deliberate, and if u insist that u are not anti-nole biased , then i can only think that u have poor judgement of the matter.

maybe i dont see nole's dark side... but how can nadal be a badguy to you ? a guy with half a dozen tics is bound to take more time (average) to serve .

If you are taking more time than usual in between points, then it's deliberate, unless there is a legit injury. Don't make this too easy, you accuse me of not watching tennis, that was your first foible.

No, you are just someone who can't or won't see any flaws to do with your favourite player. It's that simple, no more and no less.

It doesn't matter whether I like Nadal or not as person, it's irrelevant. The facts are he takes too much time in between points for the most part and has got away with it. It seems he has made an effort to be a bit quicker in between points, but like I said if you actually read it, this is where the umpire has to do their job.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:27 AM
I agree with you here, but things are different when you're in the court. I have never met someone that celebrates my errors, not even when it was an important point (which I would understand)so can't say what would my reaction be.

What you have never played someone that cheats on line calls, screams out when they win a big point. Do you play in a competition for mutes or something? It would be good not to play against cheats.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:28 AM
If you are taking more time than usual in between points, then it's deliberate, unless there is a legit injury. Don't make this too easy, you accuse me of not watching tennis, that was your first foible.

:rolleyes:

It's only deliberate if they know that 25 seconds have already passed. Considering that they're taking maybe 30 or 35 seconds when they break the rule, it's easy to understand why it can't be proved that it's deliberate.

DDrago2
06-03-2008, 11:29 AM
I'v seen the last set of this match and Stepanek's behaviour was nothing like gamesmanship, maybe irritating/distastefull/immature for someone's liking but no more

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:31 AM
What you have never played someone that cheats on line calls, screams out when they win a big point. Do you play in a competition for mutes or something? It would be good not to play against cheats.

I have seen that, yes, why do you think I didn't?

almouchie
06-03-2008, 11:32 AM
heis weird thats for sure
he doesnt fit into any category or type
just pure in your face weird fellow
his game is different from the norm as well
these days players would simply go to any legthn to win a match, there are no more boundaries
question: Is he really dating Vaidisova, what do women see in him????

Machiavelli
06-03-2008, 11:33 AM
What you have never played someone that cheats on line calls, screams out when they win a big point. Do you play in a competition for mutes or something? It would be good not to play against cheats.
My friend does it all the time, it does not matter if it is just a friendly match, a league match or in a local tournament, that is his style and the way he plays, after i started not to react on it he stopped winning matches against him, you can not let them see it bothers you, if you do, then they will push suche behaviour even more; now he knows he can not hurt me with his tricks on court...

ginnylegend
06-03-2008, 11:36 AM
How about the retards who haven't a clue grow up? Radek has class.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:39 AM
:rolleyes:

It's only deliberate if they know that 25 seconds have already passed. Considering that they're taking maybe 30 or 35 seconds when they break the rule, it's easy to understand why it can't be proved that it's deliberate.

Nadal has taken 40 seconds and not been pulled up on it regularly whereas a lower ranked player will.

Sounds like another person not capable of seeing that their fave players can bend or stretch the rules to suit their needs at that moment.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:40 AM
How about the retards who haven't a clue grow up? Radek has class.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/svein_sveynsson/SexyThunderLips.jpg

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 11:42 AM
If you are taking more time than usual in between points,then it's deliberate

:confused:


Then what is deliberate? Taking more time than usual between points?

Unfortunately to understand that I need to know what "more time than usual" means.

More time than the atp average ? Or do you mean more time than personal average (on important points only)?


Still neither qualifies as gamesmanship when Nadal or Djokovic are concerned. Not because I am , or am not biased.They are 2 players with incredible mental strenght and every point is mentally exhausting for them.Not to mention the physical requirements needed to play on their level.

If they take more than 30 seconds ,they should be warned , but regardless of wheter it happens , it's never gamesmanship.

Their game is based on their performance , not on distracting their opponent like in Radek's case

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 11:50 AM
:confused:


Then what is deliberate? Taking more time than usual between points?

Unfortunately to understand that I need to know what "more time than usual" means.

More time than the atp average ? Or do you mean more time than personal average (on important points only)?


Still neither qualifies as gamesmanship when Nadal or Djokovic are concerned. Not because I am , or am not biased.They are 2 players with incredible mental strenght and every point is mentally exhausting for them.Not to mention the physical requirements needed to play on their level.

If they take more than 30 seconds ,they should be warned , but regardless of wheter it happens , it's never gamesmanship.

Their game is based on their performance , not on distracting their opponent like in Radek's case

This is the official rule. Read it and learn it and then you will see. Yes, it's gamesmanship.

They clearly take more than the time alloted and hardly get pulled up for it. Look at Soderling at Wimbledon in the Nadal match. Gave the example of Odesnik at RG this year.

Yes, deliberately taking over 25 seconds, that is not gamesmanship hahahaha. I have seen these cats taking 40-50 sec and nothing happens.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/players/ATP_Rulebook.pdf

o) Continuous Play / Delay of Game

Following the expiration of the warm-up period, play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twentyfive (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play until the time the ball is struck for the next point. If such serve is a fault, then the second serve must be struck by the Server without delay. The exception is at a ninety (90) second changeover or a one hundred twenty (120) set break. The procedures for enforcing this rule are as follows:
i) 25 Seconds Between Points.
1. Start stopwatch when the player is ordered to play or when the ball goes out of play;
2. Assess Time Violation or Code Violation if the ball is not struck for the next point within the twenty-five (25) seconds allowed. There is no time warning prior to the expiration of the twenty-five (25) seconds.
ii) Changeover (Ninety (90) Seconds) and Set Break (One Hundred and Twenty (120) Seconds).
1. Start stopwatch the moment the ball goes out of play;
2. Announce “Time” after sixty (60) / ninety (90) seconds have elapsed;
3. Announce “15 Seconds” if one or both of the players are still at their chair

Voo de Mar
06-03-2008, 11:50 AM
Stepanek was overreacting in the 5th set but Pics started to do exactly the same and that's a "first class". I like the tension on the court and I think it was on the borderline of sportsmanship. Tennis is also a battle of minds and Pics won that battle, in contrary to Monfils in his famous (mentioned yesterday) match against Djokovic at US Open.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Nadal has taken 40 seconds and not been pulled up on it regularly whereas a lower ranked player will.

Sounds like another person not capable of seeing that their fave players can bend or stretch the rules to suit their needs at that moment.

Can you really discuss the point without talking about me? I am not that important, you know. However, as you again decided to bring me and my habits into the discussion, I will say that Novak Djokovic is a person I dislike deeply, I do, in the sweetest sense of the word, hate him. And I like Nadal, yes, so really I am being as neutral as I can when talking about both of them.

To the point.

Fact one: Nadal and Djokovic are slow to serve always, not only when they win, or lose.
Fact two: humans don't have a swiss clock in their brain, you can't *prove* they *know* they're over 25 seconds, specially in important points when the mind is elsewhere.
Fact three: Nadal gets warned about it often when playing. I've seen him get warned on a BP against Djokovic (and he lost it). Also happened in Miami final.

groundstroke
06-03-2008, 11:54 AM
Well it is Stepanek, not much talent there - anything that makes him happy.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 11:56 AM
Look at Soderling at Wimbledon in the Nadal match.


Gamesmanship , yes?

Now you look at 1 of nole's matches. Any one. Is it the same thing?

scarecrows
06-03-2008, 11:57 AM
Fact one: Nadal and Djokovic are slow to serve always, not only when they win, or lose.
.

they are slower before an important point

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 11:59 AM
This is the official rule. Read it and learn it and then you will see. Yes, it's gamesmanship.

They clearly take more than the time alloted and hardly get pulled up for it. Look at Soderling at Wimbledon in the Nadal match. Gave the example of Odesnik at RG this year.

Yes, deliberately taking over 25 seconds, that is not gamesmanship hahahaha. I have seen these cats taking 40-50 sec and nothing happens.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/players/ATP_Rulebook.pdf

o) Continuous Play / Delay of Game

Following the expiration of the warm-up period, play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twentyfive (25) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play until the time the ball is struck for the next point. If such serve is a fault, then the second serve must be struck by the Server without delay. The exception is at a ninety (90) second changeover or a one hundred twenty (120) set break. The procedures for enforcing this rule are as follows:
i) 25 Seconds Between Points.
1. Start stopwatch when the player is ordered to play or when the ball goes out of play;
2. Assess Time Violation or Code Violation if the ball is not struck for the next point within the twenty-five (25) seconds allowed. There is no time warning prior to the expiration of the twenty-five (25) seconds.
ii) Changeover (Ninety (90) Seconds) and Set Break (One Hundred and Twenty (120) Seconds).
1. Start stopwatch the moment the ball goes out of play;
2. Announce “Time” after sixty (60) / ninety (90) seconds have elapsed;
3. Announce “15 Seconds” if one or both of the players are still at their chair

Just to clarify your opinion: you think they should be warned every time they do it? We should go by the book on it 100%?

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:00 PM
Gamesmanship , yes?

Now you look at 1 of nole's matches. Any one. Is it the same thing?

Excess ball bouncing before an important point. He usually takes 20-25 secs when playing at normal speed.

In other words the bigger the point, the longer he takes going over time, that's exactly the same as Nadal has done at times.

Take off the bias glasses.

Lucinda
06-03-2008, 12:02 PM
I'd so much rather watch Stepanek doing this than the "little fists" all the women are doing nowadays. That really grates on me nerves. Pursed lips, little fist clench after every farking point - drives me up the wall.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 12:02 PM
Excess ball bouncing before an important. He usually takes 20-25 when playing at normal speed.

In other words the bigger the point, the longer he takes going over time, that's exactly the same as Nadal has done at times.

Take off the bias glasses.

Does he do it to annoy his opponent , or to help himself concentrate?

That's the point.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:02 PM
Just to clarify your opinion: you think they should be warned every time they do it? We should go by the book on it 100%?

You are looking for excuses, this is the difference.

Not hard, you were being a bitch about Stepanek and got pulled up when other players practice gamesmanship, that you happen to like.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:03 PM
Does he do it to annoy his opponent , or to help himself?

That's the point.

I already answered that and if you can't be bothered to read it, then that's your problem.

Acer
06-03-2008, 12:05 PM
question: Is he really dating Vaidisova, what do women see in him????

It breaks my heart to say it but he actually is dating Vaidisova and I blame him for her game becoming crap. Previous victims include Hingis.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 12:05 PM
I already answered that and if you can't be bothered to read it, then that's your problem.

Then I stick with my oppinion that your judgement is poor indeed.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:09 PM
Then I stick with my oppinion that your judgement is poor indeed.

I stick with my judgment, that you are a fanboy, someone who is absolutely incapable of seeing that Djokovic could do anything wrong at all. In other words you know nothing about physics then.

For every reaction, then there is a counter reaction. It's that simple, if you are absolutely incapable of seeing that, then I take my hat off to you.

TMJordan
06-03-2008, 12:10 PM
Radek is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

zcess81
06-03-2008, 12:15 PM
It breaks my heart to say it but he actually is dating Vaidisova and I blame him for her game becoming crap. Previous victims include Hingis.

Hingis used to be cute when she was younger, now she just looks like a horse, so they were a perfect match. Vaidisova on the other hand...

SwiSha
06-03-2008, 12:15 PM
he was always acting like a prick

nothing new here, he will not enjoy jumping around after losses, limited skills require antics

never been a fan of idiots who celebrate a point basket or goal like they won already, that goes for every sport

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 12:16 PM
I stick with my judgment, that you are a fanboy, someone who is absolutely incapable of seeing that Djokovic could do anything wrong at all. In other words you know nothing about physics then.

For every reaction, then there is a counter reaction. It's that simple, if you are absolutely incapable of seeing that, then I take my hat off to you.

Even if his opponent is not a mug , it's bound to affect him more or less (djokovic's big serve preparation), agreed.

But that's not novak's problem.

Your argument falls into the water. It's like saying Federer is using gamesmanship because he dominates his opponent from start to finish.

Basically you're saying that anyone doing anything that doesn't help his opponent is using gamesmanship.

Bottom line:


If the action is helping yourself and the reaction creates a disadvantage for your opponent it is not gamesmanship.

If the action is creating a disadvantage for your opponent and the reaction something u benefit from, then it is called gamesmanship.

I really hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Hingis used to be cute when she was younger, now she just looks like a horse, so they were a perfect match. Vaidisova on the other hand...

Since you are the humourous type. Stepanek downgraded a long time ago. The girlfriend he had, when he first went on tour was at about 5 divisions higher than Hingis and 2 on Vaidisova.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Even if his opponent is not a mug , it's bound to affect him more or less (djokovic's big serve preparation), agreed.

But that's not novak's problem.

Your argument falls into the water. It's like saying Federer is using gamesmanship because he dominates his opponent from start to finish.

Basically you're saying that anyone doing anything that doesn't help his opponent is using gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship is something more specific

Why are you continuing this? You have nothing and have already shown your true colours.

Since you don't understand the rules of Continuous Play / Delay of Game, then why are you discussing it? What Djokovic does when he does the 99 bounces on big points in between serves, does not count as Continuous Play, therefore deliberately altering the speed of the game in between points is a form of gamesmanship by delaying the usual time taken in between serves.

Your argument has nothing, because Federer is absolutely irrelevant to this. He doesn't fake injuries, plays within the rules of the game and does not take longer than 25 seconds in between points.

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 12:28 PM
You are looking for excuses, this is the difference.

Not hard, you were being a bitch about Stepanek and got pulled up when other players practice gamesmanship, that you happen to like.

I just asked you a question, sorry for interrupting your bitching against everyone. :o

I see a difference between serving slowly and celebrating UE. You don't. I think intention is important in this case. You don't. No need to call me a fanboy, talk about Bias or anything. Cool down, man.

The question about the rulebook comes from your post in the first page, when you placed slow servers and Radek's monkey dance in the same list. As I see you sourly regret that top ranked players are not warned or penalized, I asume you agree with me then, Radek should be warned as he breaks the code of conduct.

zcess81
06-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Since you are the humourous type. Stepanek downgraded a long time ago. The girlfriend he had, when he first went on tour was at about 5 divisions higher than Hingis and 2 on Vaidisova.

Who is she? Pics? Don't know what these girls see in him, but you've got to give it to him...Fed gets stuck with Mirka and he gets all the hot chicks. I wonder if being no.1 is as good as everyone makes it out to be.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 12:34 PM
I just asked you a question, sorry for interrupting your bitching against everyone. :o

I see a difference between serving slowly and celebrating UE. You don't. I think intention is important in this case. You don't. No need to call me a fanboy, talk about Bias or anything. Cool down, man.

The question about the rulebook comes from your post in the first page, when you placed slow servers and Radek's monkey dance in the same list. As I see you sourly regret that top ranked players are not warned or penalized, I asume you agree with me then, Radek should be warned as he breaks the code of conduct.

There is nothing in the rule book about celebrating unforced errors is there? Just like hitting the ball at someone's head at the net to win the point. Some people do it and others don't, but these aren't legislated are they?

Intention about Stepanek's antics, he is happy and also trying to wind up his opponents. But you refuse to acknowledge that some of your favourite players wind up the opponents, though using different methods.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 12:35 PM
PMK , read my (previous) edited post and u will see that im correct on this issue.

As for the time rule , it applies to everyone , and yes Nadal and Djokovic get more warnings than some other players , respectively , but this is still totally unrelated to gamesmanship.

1)Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game.

2)Going out of the time limit is illegal ,prohibited by rules , and punished regularly (although often tolerated, but again same tolerance applies to all players)

What I'm trying to say under 2) is that going out of the time limit is not gamesmanship by nature, although it can be abused , as I said earlier.

So when you see that I am correct , follow your advice and do not continue the discussion.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 01:03 PM
[/B]
Who is she? Pics? Don't know what these girls see in him, but you've got to give it to him...Fed gets stuck with Mirka and he gets all the hot chicks. I wonder if being no.1 is as good as everyone makes it out to be.

I think there is one around somewhere. She wasn't a tennis player, just a hot Czech brown haired woman who was with him when he was a doubles player.

I saw her and then one of my friends pointed the guy (Stepanek) she was with and thought Ok, "he's either packing heat down there or those Thunder Lips are really that good".

It's strange once Steps got wealthier they broke up, whereas Fed still stuck with the same woman. It's not like Federer hasn' t been tempted or Mirka must be good at all roles.

Bernard Black
06-03-2008, 01:04 PM
PMK , read my (previous) edited post and u will see that im correct on this issue.

As for the time rule , it applies to everyone , and yes Nadal and Djokovic get more warnings than some other players , respectively , but this is still totally unrelated to gamesmanship.

1)Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game.

2)Going out of the time limit is illegal ,prohibited by rules , and punished regularly (although often tolerated, but again same tolerance applies to all players)

What I'm trying to say under 2) is that going out of the time limit is not gamesmanship by nature, although it can be abused , as I said earlier.

So when you see that I am correct , follow your advice and do not continue the discussion.

You sound very confused. You're saying it's not gamesmanship if it's against the rules? What a ridiculous statement. Taking too long between points is against the rules and winds up your opponent, if you've ever picked up a racquet you would know this.

Burrow
06-03-2008, 01:06 PM
Coming from a Nadal fan, his behaviour is disgusting.

adee-gee
06-03-2008, 01:07 PM
Coming from a Nadal fan, his behaviour is disgusting.
Coming from a Safin fan......

Bernard Black
06-03-2008, 01:08 PM
I think there is one around somewhere. She wasn't a tennis player, just a hot Czech brown haired woman who was with him when he was a doubles player.

I saw her and then one of my friends pointed the guy (Stepanek) she was with and thought Ok, "he's either packing heat down there or those Thunder Lips are really that good".

It's strange once Steps got wealthier they broke up, whereas Fed still stuck with the same woman. It's not like Federer hasn' t been tempted or Mirka must be good at all roles.

I guess the notion of romance is lost on you PMK ;)

I think it's very sweet they've stayed together through it all, and yes, she must be excellent to Federer in all areas one would have to assume.

Am intrigued about Stepanek's ex, I don't remember her. Will have a look around for pics. I don't find Vaidisova massively hot, although obviously, way out of Stepanek's league.

Deivid23
06-03-2008, 01:09 PM
This thread comes up like 15 or 20 years late

Tom Paulman
06-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Some opinions in the previous posts are too funny.

Radek celebrates a point = gamesmanship, he's doing it to irritate his opponents, he's an evil player and needs to grow up
Nadal's delays between serve, Djokovic's ball bouncing and fake time-outs = normal thing, nothing like gamesmanship, these guys are classy players and would never do this on purpose (Nadal is certainly not aware of the fact that it takes him forever to hit the serve)

As far as Radek, his celebrations are one of the reasons I like him. It makes him entertaining to watch. If someone prefers to watch a stone-faced player who doesn't seem to enjoy the game, I'm fine with it, but don't act like it's illegal to show your emotions.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 01:13 PM
PMK , read my (previous) edited post and u will see that im correct on this issue.

So when you see that I am correct , follow your advice and do not continue the discussion.

You are not even close to being correct. You are just trying to use a fluid definition of the term gamesmanship to suit your own arguments. Considering there is nothing in either the ATP or ITF rule handbook which refers specifically to gamesmanship, then how can it not be anything but a fluid term, therefore trying to support a very flimsy argument.

As for the time rule , it applies to everyone , and yes Nadal and Djokovic get more warnings than some other players , respectively , but this is still totally unrelated to gamesmanship.

Wrong again. Considering the rule isn't applied evenly across the board and certain players benefit from this lack of application of the rule.

You have failed once again in understand what Delay of Play means. I have given numerous examples of this and when was the last time Djokovic got a warning for it?

1)Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game.

There are many ways of doing it. Stepanek does it through the dancing antics, Roddick has done it giving a bit of trash talking to his opponent to throw them off the game.

Nadal does it through the slow play and Djokovic does it through excessive ball bouncing, timeouts when not injured to change momentum of matches in his favour. How often they do it is irrelevant, but it has happened.

No matter which way you wrap it up, it's still gamesmanship, but you refuse to acknowledge that Djokovic does it.

scarecrows
06-03-2008, 01:14 PM
so radek celebrations are over the top while Nadal's jumps like a horny chimp are ok?

Rafa = Fed Killa
06-03-2008, 01:16 PM
so radek celebrations are over the top while Nadal's jumps like a horny chimp are ok?

Celebrating your amazing shot or amazing get

vs

Celebrating a basic point where the other guy hit the net



Fedfans gain some logic and grow up.

Fumus
06-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Stepanek is great for tennis, he's really a showman. I appreciate what he does both with his unique style of a play and comical celebrations. Off court he's an honest guy, and gives very candid in interviews. Every inch of what an international man of mystery should be.

p.s.
As far as celebrating errors goes as long as it's done
in a positive way on big points, who cares? Grow up, you babies!

madmanfool
06-03-2008, 01:20 PM
i don't like his celibratiions either. Mainly because they are so weird. I mean, why can't he just show his fist and cry out a come on or something. It always has to be something weird, like jumping around like a little girl with spasm or doing that worm thing. It's just too weird for me.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 01:21 PM
Stepanek is great for tennis, he's really a showman. I appreciate what he does both with his unique style of a play and comical celebrations. Off court he's an honest guy, and very candid in interviews. Every inch of what an international man of mystery should be.

That's it.

Peta Pan
06-03-2008, 01:52 PM
As far as Radek, his celebrations are one of the reasons I like him. It makes him entertaining to watch. If someone prefers to watch a stone-faced player who doesn't seem to enjoy the game, I'm fine with it, but don't act like it's illegal to show your emotions.
:yeah:
so radek celebrations are over the top while Nadal's jumps like a horny chimp are ok?
:lol:


Geez, so much petty squabbling going on in here :rolleyes:

I think Radek's celebrations are entertaining and shows some emotion. Yes it's gamesmanship, but it's not outside the rules. An umpire can hardly warn him for celebrating!

I do like Djokovic but the ball bouncing is a definite problem and he and Nadal take too much time between points too often. I applaud every umpire that has the guts to give either of them a warning.

Anyone that says that their time-wasting is not gamesmanship is fooling themselves. It puts off the opponent by testing and going outside the boundries of the rules. On one occasion I recall seeing the umpire call Time at the start of the match, for the players to leave their chair to start the match. I can't remember who his opponent was, but he left and went to his end while Nadal just sat in his chair as if to say he'd do what he wanted and didn't need to go by the rules. The opponent walked up to the umpire to ask him about it because he was clearly irked by Nadal's behaviour and the umpire just laughed about it (which irked me too!). Nadal must have been sitting in his chair about 2 minutes past the time he was allowed. No one can say he didn't know he was violating the rules then.

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 01:56 PM
http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/DC_8916_gallery.JPG + http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8594/nicolevaidisova01310701mh3.jpg

That is talent.

Fumus
06-03-2008, 02:25 PM
http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/DC_8916_gallery.JPG + http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8594/nicolevaidisova01310701mh3.jpg

That is talent.

:haha::haha:

rocketassist
06-03-2008, 02:28 PM
MC Rado winds up MTF. Love it. Shows what a genius he is. :worship:

Mateya
06-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Nicole has just turned 19 in april?

And he got her last year when she was "barely legal". :devil: :worship:

Good pic of Nicole, btw. :)

star
06-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Stepanek really has done this for ages - it's not new - but he has had quite a few injuries so people may not be as familiar with him. He's an acquired taste, admittedly, but he's an one-off in both character and appearance, an aggressive player and usually great to watch. Have always liked him.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it isn't annoying.

I've always thought Stepanek was an asshole. It's too bad that he has a nice game.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 02:37 PM
I'm not saying Djokovic and Nadal don't use gamesmanship. Do you even read other people's posts or just keep throwing the same arguments over and over?

And I have nothing to be biased about in this matter. You just continuously fail to acknowledge my point .

My view on gamesmanship is not the same as yours , and it has nothing to do with Novak Djokovic or Rafael Nadal personally.That's it.

I suppose u agree on the existence of different oppinions? :)

fast_clay
06-03-2008, 02:43 PM
lay off radek...

sure, he owns a face like a bag of spanners, but who wants a bunch of robots getting about on court...? i think the author of this thread should go get a job at the wimbledon schedulers desk, where they have their head stuck up their a*se to a similar depth...

truth is the ATP has sterilised tennis to the point where everyone is a walking, moving and reacting to a win or a loss in the same manner... seriously... compared to what i grew up with todays players are scary...

go radek... you are ugly... but your game is the real deal and you score b!tch like a champion...

fast_clay
06-03-2008, 02:46 PM
oh yeah...

you can measure the gamesmanship by novak or nadal with a timepiece...

but, it is nigh on impossible to measure how sexy someone is on court...

radek is above the law you clowns...

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 02:49 PM
Poor finishingmove, still going when there is no reason to, but I'm worried this illustration you might not get the point.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Emmentaler.jpg/711px-Emmentaler.jpg

http://www.formaggiokitchen.com/shop/images/Gorgonzola%20Naturale.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/IMGP0320.JPG/800px-IMGP0320.JPG

Yes, they are 3 different kinds of the same thing, bit like the examples I used of gamesmanship without the cheese references.

They are all different types of the one product.

fast_clay
06-03-2008, 02:51 PM
is novak the top one? appearing clean cut and pure but with plenty of holes in his game?

jasmin
06-03-2008, 02:51 PM
He's an acquired taste, admittedly, but he's an one-off in both character and appearance,

That's for sure.

finishingmove
06-03-2008, 02:56 PM
all that is gamesmanship IS gamesmanship... but what is not IS NOT...

and posting oversized images is always a failure, even when u dont know how to express yourself , although by now i think i pretty much know how u think, so have no worries there.

u are the one failing to see the other side of the coin

star
06-03-2008, 03:01 PM
lay off radek...

sure, he owns a face like a bag of spanners, but who wants a bunch of robots getting about on court...? i think the author of this thread should go get a job at the wimbledon schedulers desk, where they have their head stuck up their a*se to a similar depth...

truth is the ATP has sterilised tennis to the point where everyone is a walking, moving and reacting to a win or a loss in the same manner... seriously... compared to what i grew up with todays players are scary...

go radek... you are ugly... but your game is the real deal and you score b!tch like a champion...

So, if I understand you, Radek is the hero of ugly men everywhere?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

fast_clay
06-03-2008, 03:03 PM
So, if I understand you, Radek is the hero of ugly men everywhere?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

yes... you read between the lines and see through me...

there are ugly men everywhere... hordes of us...

waiting for a leader...

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 03:09 PM
I am absolutely in favor of expressing happiness, celebrating points, etc. I think some people needs to improve their reading skills. What I despise is his celebration of EVERY point including silly errors from the rival.

Maybe I should post four of five giant pics of dancing monkeys or drunken giraffes to enlighten the audience.

Lunaris
06-03-2008, 03:10 PM
So you don't like Stepanek's antics. That isn't worthy a new thread you know. I for one enjoy when he is pumping himself, and don't start threads about it. ;)

Bazooka
06-03-2008, 03:11 PM
So you don't like Stepanek's antics. That isn't worthy a new thread you know.

It isn't worth your reply?

Action Jackson
06-03-2008, 03:12 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/svein_sveynsson/vaidisovastepanek.jpg

Finishingmove, I have already proved my point many times over. You don't know what gamesmanship is and what it partakes and in what forms it does. Some are obvious about it and others aren't.

As for listening other views, it's not my fault that yours were poorly researched, didn't have a clue about the basic rules. If someone can't see taking the longer than the alloted time in between points is a form of gamesmanship, just like winding down the clock in football, then the original call stands, nothing but a fanboy.

shotgun
06-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Most players employ gamesmanship, the difference is that some do it in a boring way (e.g. Djokovic, Robredo, Nadal, Massu), and others do it in an entertaining way (e.g. Stepanek, Kiefer, Soderling). I tend to prefer the latter group.

Lunaris
06-03-2008, 03:25 PM
It isn't worth your reply?
I chose this form of replying instead of giving you a straight bad rep like I usually do.

TheSwissMaster
06-03-2008, 04:05 PM
Guys, I know Ferrer is not the best example of calmness and behavior. In fact, he's very stupid sometimes.

What I'm saying is, I play tennis as amateur, and many times I've played against slow servers, etc. But if I had ever played against a guy that celebrates my UEs even when they are not important points, I would ask him if he's trying to get my racquet in his asshole. I don't see how this crap that no one does even in amateur tennis or pro tennis elsewhere should be watched on TV on the second week of a slam.

calm down atleast ur man won. u dont want to hear the misery that we fed fans went through when he defeated roger in rome. on one hand, it was the agony of fed losing and his another chance to win rome getting out of hands and then to put salt to the wounds(i hope thats correct) his celebration on every point was just too much to bear. it was like i just wanna shoot him right there. so it was double agony that we went through and there was nothing to make up for it but in ur case atleast Ferrer victory is sth to cheer about


by the way do u remember ur uncivilized attack on me in a similar type of thread that i started (nadal and his gamesmanship), now what do say as u've started one too.:aplot:

Forehander
06-03-2008, 04:40 PM
He's been doing that for years. He's received several complaints about it already. Even his serve, whenever he strikes an ace, it pisses opponents off. Whenever he aces he bounces himself up and down like a clown. Worm indeed. But his game is a bit rare nowadays so we should forgive him.

GlennMirnyi
06-03-2008, 05:33 PM
no , how can that be gamesmanship? i mean have you seen those 2 players play ?

the timeouts are gamesmanship but this is far from it.


generally it could be used as a gamesmanship technique but nadal's and djokovic's serve ritual is not that.

Of course not. Delusional fanboy.

Stepanek: Officially more entertaining than your favourite player.

So true.

The real surprise to me is that Ferrer (or any other opponent for that matter) didn't jump over the net and smacked him in the face after one of his annoying fits. Ferrer must be a very patient man.

Stop transferring your own life and problems to others. It's about 150% sure that you get your ass kicked by others because you're such an utter prick. No need to tell your lifestory in a shadowy way.

:rolleyes:

It's only deliberate if they know that 25 seconds have already passed. Considering that they're taking maybe 30 or 35 seconds when they break the rule, it's easy to understand why it can't be proved that it's deliberate.

Everybody knows the rule.

How about the retards who haven't a clue grow up? Radek has class.

Sooooo much.

Well it is Stepanek, not much talent there - anything that makes him happy.

:retard:

Top 5 most talented player on tour.

Does he do it to annoy his opponent , or to help himself concentrate?

That's the point.

The delusion goes on and on and on.

It breaks my heart to say it but he actually is dating Vaidisova and I blame him for her game becoming crap. Previous victims include Hingis.

It's not his fault that she's addicted to his pure raw sexiness.

I stick with my judgment, that you are a fanboy, someone who is absolutely incapable of seeing that Djokovic could do anything wrong at all. In other words you know nothing about physics then.

For every reaction, then there is a counter reaction. It's that simple, if you are absolutely incapable of seeing that, then I take my hat off to you.

Never in doubt.

Radek is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Also true.

he was always acting like a prick

nothing new here, he will not enjoy jumping around after losses, limited skills require antics

never been a fan of idiots who celebrate a point basket or goal like they won already, that goes for every sport

Limited skills... :retard: how many players are making the top 20 just on touch and ability?

Some opinions in the previous posts are too funny.

Radek celebrates a point = gamesmanship, he's doing it to irritate his opponents, he's an evil player and needs to grow up
Nadal's delays between serve, Djokovic's ball bouncing and fake time-outs = normal thing, nothing like gamesmanship, these guys are classy players and would never do this on purpose (Nadal is certainly not aware of the fact that it takes him forever to hit the serve)

As far as Radek, his celebrations are one of the reasons I like him. It makes him entertaining to watch. If someone prefers to watch a stone-faced player who doesn't seem to enjoy the game, I'm fine with it, but don't act like it's illegal to show your emotions.

:worship:

Stepanek is great for tennis, he's really a showman. I appreciate what he does both with his unique style of a play and comical celebrations. Off court he's an honest guy, and gives very candid in interviews. Every inch of what an international man of mystery should be.

p.s.
As far as celebrating errors goes as long as it's done
in a positive way on big points, who cares? Grow up, you babies!

:worship: :worship: :worship:

i don't like his celibratiions either. Mainly because they are so weird. I mean, why can't he just show his fist and cry out a come on or something. It always has to be something weird, like jumping around like a little girl with spasm or doing that worm thing. It's just too weird for me.

The worm is never done between points. Only after important matches.

http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/DC_8916_gallery.JPG + http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8594/nicolevaidisova01310701mh3.jpg

That is talent.

:haha: So true.

Bunch of envious clowns.

oh yeah...

you can measure the gamesmanship by novak or nadal with a timepiece...

but, it is nigh on impossible to measure how sexy someone is on court...

radek is above the law you clowns...

:yeah:

yes... you read between the lines and see through me...

there are ugly men everywhere... hordes of us...

waiting for a leader...

Rado is your leader and what a leader.

Iván
06-03-2008, 05:38 PM
http://english.people.com.cn/200703/13/images/soccer2.jpg

martina has lost her crack partner

tangerine_dream
06-03-2008, 06:45 PM
Stepanshit a rude clown who uses gamesmanship to win? I'm shocked.

*Viva Chile*
06-03-2008, 06:50 PM
grow up??? he is with a 19 y.o. how do you want to behave him???? :shrug:

Tommy fan
06-03-2008, 06:52 PM
I agree. When I watch his matches I always cheer for the opponents.
I don't care how he looked like (Although, what the hell is he wearing?!) but his celebrations and the dances, the fist pumps, it's so disrespecting and he make a fool out of him self

Merton
06-03-2008, 07:57 PM
I don't mind Stepanek's celebrations, what ticks me off is his little dance walking back to the baseline and smashing overheads right at opponents. Having said that he has a very interesting game to watch, he is a very smart player and it is totally stupid people bashing him because of his looks.

Vaidisova is a significant upgrade compared to Hingis :worship:

Duncan
06-03-2008, 08:02 PM
He's an idiot.

Always has been, always will be...

Jaap
06-03-2008, 08:03 PM
This Stepanek is good.

FedFan_2007
06-03-2008, 08:10 PM
Karin, there's just something about Sexy that's exciting and revolting at the same time!

Vida
06-03-2008, 08:19 PM
I kinda dig those antics. I mean hes awkward looking (not so say 'ugly' ... ups!, sorry) but there is something going on always with him. Added to his SV game, old school groundies and all... yeah he's ok.

Burrow
06-04-2008, 04:20 PM
Coming from a Safin fan......

Safin doesn't try to get in his opponents face, his behaviour is only fucking himself up not his opponents unlike Nadal who runs around the court with a 12 inch bicep and a 17 inch bicep like he is the new Ronnie Coleman :rolls:

Machiavelli
06-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Sepanek is a legend, not only does he have a unique style of playing his game, off court he is the true number one, the Don Juan of the ATP tour...

Hats of Radek.....

Monteque
06-04-2008, 05:47 PM
Women like him tough (at least some of the hottest).
He has confident and ugly face. So perfect