MC Final: R Nadal def R Federer 7-5, 7-5 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

MC Final: R Nadal def R Federer 7-5, 7-5

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groundstroke
04-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Fed was 4-0 up in the 2nd set and Nadal won 5 straight games - unbelievable! What a choke from Federer, he must be mad at himself. Nadal once again is far too good for Federer, on clay.

azinna
04-27-2008, 02:56 PM
From 0-4 down in the second set, to boot.

Adler
04-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Eaaasy
Never in doubt
Had this one in the bag already

Choose your favourite :)

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Congrats :hatoff:

Not a set lost, again. Impressive!

Richardgm
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Great hustle...

Apemant
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Horrible choke from Fed from *4-1 up in the 2nd... Nadal did step it up as well, but Fed missed so many easy putaways that I cringed like mad. :devil:

Fedexex
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Fedchoker:sad::bigcry::smash:

TMJordan
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Really never in doubt.

Nice 2nd set MonoFed.

Voo de Mar
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Nadal - great fighter :worship:

mivco
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
haha what a pathetic choker... #1 ? haha

Kuhne
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
congrats rafa :) 4 in a row is great.

Rog, I'd love to say well played but you gave it away

Allegretto
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Nadal rolling in the mud at the end. He seems happy.

BlueSwan
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
At 4-0 in the second, I thought we might see a repeat of Hamburg, but I guess it wasn't to be.

When was the last time that Federer lost a set after having been up 4-0 (or with a double break).

I'm very disappointed. Very disappointed. Roger must be kicking himself.

groundstroke
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Eaaasy
Never in doubt
Had this one in the bag already

Choose your favourite :)
Federer did look like he could win the match and cause some damage at times - but this match really depended on Federer choking at 4-0 up 2nd set.

Jimnik
04-27-2008, 02:57 PM
Eaaasy
Never in doubt
Had this one in the bag already

Choose your favourite :)
Never in doubt. :)

Greatest clay player of all time.

Caio_Brasil
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Way to go Rafa, congratulations :)

Lleyton_
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz:

bokehlicious
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Nice win Rafa :yeah:

F*** you Roger!

Pigsarestupid
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
What can you say? In my opinion by far the greatest claycourter who ever lived.

LocoPorElTenis
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Never in doubt - horrible shot selection by Fedmug and Fedchoker.

camnation
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Congrats Rafa. Good comback and good first title!
Hehe, players should seriously avoid celebrating on clay by sprawling on the ground in glee.

selyoink
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
What a mug performance from Federer. You know once he blew the first break that he would bend over for Nadal. And lo and behold he did.

Forehander
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
retarded performance from Federer though Nadal played well. Was always in front especially in the second but ends up losing it big time lol.

miura
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Congrats Nadal. Too bad Federer didn't take advantage of the two breaks up in the second =/

tae04
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Federer sucks

Marek.
04-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Well, considering the fact that he was two points away from going out in the second round, it's qiute amazing that Fed even got to the final.

On the other hand, he was up fucking 4-0 in the second. Nadal's just too tough to get sets off of at MC I guess. :shrug:

Congrats to Nadal and now the floor is open for all the Rafatards to start the gloating.

MisterQ
04-27-2008, 02:59 PM
Nadal was also down a break (multiple times?) in the first set. What an odd match -- he was behind more often than not, but won in straights. :bowdown:

mikkemus23
04-27-2008, 02:59 PM
Too good..
Shame about the choke, but all in all a great match from both.
Avoid choking at RG Rogi and you ar the contender once again..

azinna
04-27-2008, 02:59 PM
Nadal is indeed a monster on the dirt. But Federer was not close to being impressive the way he surrendered two consecutive breaks.

l_mac
04-27-2008, 02:59 PM
:woohoo: :woohoo:

Finally a title :bigcry:

Horrendous play from Fed to lose a 4-0 lead, but GREAT to see Rafa's fighting spirit once again.

Love it.

Corey Feldman
04-27-2008, 03:00 PM
Too good Rafa, props to you for it

doesnt matter what Fed does, he cant beat him on clay when he's 100% and he never will

but, this week for Fed has been memorable and makes me believe great things can still be achieved - POST Roland Garros! :yeah: and even a Semi there will be a top result for him in my eyes

RogiRafaFan86
04-27-2008, 03:00 PM
Well I love them both, but Rafa needed this win. And to do it in that way - :worship:

Congrats to Roger on a great tournament.

And to anyone who says Rafa got lucky? You could say Roger got lucky be up 4-0 against Rafa on clay. Neither is true, of course.

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:00 PM
Never in doubt - horrible shot selection by Fedmug and Fedchoker.Show some respect, you tool :retard:

He pushed Nadal more than anyone else in the draw could.

Chiseller
04-27-2008, 03:00 PM
It's always the same with them on clay. Fed can't keep his nerves together.
Very well played by Nadal towards the end though.
At least I made some money :lol:

rafa_maniac
04-27-2008, 03:00 PM
VAMOOOOOOOS!!!!! First title of the year, 9-6 now against Fed, and the King of Clay reigns supreme again. Ah, I love this time of year!

groundstroke
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Show some respect, you tool :retard:

He pushed Nadal more than anyone else in the draw could.
Indeed he did, definitely played better this year than last year - but what a choke!!

groundstroke
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
I think Federer has come even closer to figuring out how to beat Nadal on clay, there were times today when Federer dominated the play, but Nadal has the superior mentality on clay and Federer choked big time.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Quite solid from Nadal.

Roger tried to play attacking tennis for much of the first set and it was a high quality match in the first.

Mono then got up 4-0 in the second before he began to stick back in the court and engage in more baseline rallies with Nadal. DEATH. Nadal upped his play to win 5 games straight and closed it out.

Onto Barcelona

Bilbo
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
expected one

ea$$$$$y

l_mac
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Show some respect, you tool :retard:

He pushed Nadal more than anyone else in the draw could.

Agreed, Rogiman. Spectacular from Fed in the 2nd set to get up to 4-0.

And after the last couple of days :tape: it's nice to see the genuine respect between the two players.

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
What is excruciating is that this match really depends on Federer alone... when he's dancing, he's just too good even for Rafa. But of course, he can't seem to sustain that level for extended periods of time, but almost inevitably chokes.

Rafa on the other hand is like a steamroll - he just keeps going, if you drop but a little you are going to be stomped over.

Langers
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Pretty ordinary final IMO, and certainly didnít live up to expectations. Nadal didnít play anywhere near his best and still managed to beat the world #1 in straight sets in under two hours. The standard of play was much lower than weíve come to expect when these two go head to head as neither played their best tennis at the same time.

The first set was a struggle as Federer twice broke Nadal but Rafa managed to break straight back on both occasions. Then in the second set Roger skipped out to a 4-0 lead by playing some really attacking tennis and his play at the net was faultless however for whatever reason it all turned around. Nadal won 15 of 18 points and Roger played some awful tennis. Youíve got to give massive credit to Nadal for once again for coming back from a double break.

Somewhat disappointing game and although Nadal played well, and had periods where he just didnít make a mistake, Iím underwhelmed.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:01 PM
It was not a choke. Federer relied on precision too much. Once he cooled off the accuracy eluded him and he began making errors. Nadal is a true clay courter in the sense that the priority is on getting the ball back and deep and he could do this with consistency. It is all about his bow-like arms which allow him to do this all day if need be.

That said, Roger hit with more topspin and made a lot of improvements. There's a lot of hope for a solid clay court season for him.

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:02 PM
This shows Fed has the game to defeat him on clay

BUT

He has to avoid poor shot selection, play his max and... well, maybe count on some other type of clay, like in Rome. He didn't play a bad match, it was just too much to bare for one man

That said, congrats for Nadal on winning his first title for a very long time, but no one may doubt it's well-deserved one. GOAT on clay, indeed

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:02 PM
expected one

ea$$$$$y

Bilbo padding his post count again.

Expected 'result'.

Shabazza
04-27-2008, 03:02 PM
Disappointing 2nd set. What a way to give up a 4:0 lead...would'Ve loved to see a 3rd set. :(

Anyway congratulations Nadal deserved winner.

HNCS
04-27-2008, 03:03 PM
(1) A week ago, Roger were troubled in a "slump" and inconsistency
(2) Roger has defeated Nalbandian and Djokovic with solid games
(3) we're acutally doing BETTER than 2007, in terms of clay court performance.
(4) Better to lose now than RG. Beating Nadal on clay will take a stella performance, big effort, so i'd rather it all come together during RG final.

Congratulations Roger. Congratulations Nadal.

Chiseller
04-27-2008, 03:03 PM
Lovely how Nadal celebrated, it still matters him much to beat Fed on clay after all those years of dominance.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:03 PM
This shows Fed has the game to defeat him on clay

BUT

He has to avoid poor shot selection, play his max and... well, maybe count on some other type of clay, like in Rome. He didn't play a bad match, it was just too much to bare for one man

That said, congrats for Nadal on winning his first title for a very long time, but no one may doubt it's well-deserved one. GOAT on clay, indeed

Federer has to play a perfect match to beat Nadal. He did it once in a best-of-three in Hamburg. I don't think he'll ever do it in a best-of-five at Roland Garros.

It's impossible. He can't hit lines for five sets. He did it here for a few games.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:03 PM
I still think Roger had the right game plan for most of this match (expect after 4-0). He should've really won both sets, being breaks up in both, so he needs to find a way to avoid giving up leads that easily against Nadal. I still think Djokovic is going to be challenging Nadal more on clay than Roger. Federer just goes through these patches that he is unplayable but then he plays 8 straight UEs and they are even.

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Expected win, but congrats to Nadal for his first title of the year and fourth straight MC title. Too good.

For Federer it's all about the match-up, and definitely some positives to take out of this match, but without a doubt there were stretches he played well below his best and that cost him badly. He will need the performance of a lifetime to beat Nadal at RG.

luvly1
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Congrats rafa. Fed should have won that second set...oh well, on to rome.

alfonsojose
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Jesuschoke :tape:

sykotique
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Glad to see things back to normal. Federer-Nadal finals, with half of MTF claiming Federer choked and the other half adamant that Nadal displayed Spartan-like qualities.

Overall, a quality match and Federer can take some positives from it - like all the other matches he's lost to Nadal on clay, lol.

freeandlonely
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
OhNoooooooooooooooo
Roger:mad:

Action Jackson
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Far from a surprise, as usual Nadal did not have to play that well to beat Federer on clay. He kept a solid level throughout.

Federer tactically was quite good, but there was too much variance in his performance to get the job done against a guy like Nadal.

Not a great match, but these two don't play great matches against each other generally.

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
It was not a choke. Federer relied on precision too much.

That is of course not true. The first break back was due to Fed's silly errors, not errors due to requiring high accuracy. If I'm not mistaken he went to 0-30 by virtue of two mindless UEs at the net, something he usually pulls off 90% of the time.

No, this was definitely Fed choking, he got afraid of playing too well. It's the 'no shit, I'm beating Rafa on clay, that can not be' :devil: thing, something he should be all to familiar with as other people usually do things like that when they play him on other surfaces, grass for example.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:04 PM
I don't think Nadal was happy that he beat Federer. I think he was more happy that he had warmed up properly for his doubles match. Shameful performance from Roger after being up 4-0

jonas
04-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Kudos to Nadal. He's a great fighter. But it's kinda boring that he wins every clay tourney every year. And what's more boring is that Federer never can make a good match against the spaniard on clay. Apart from Rome 2006 that is.

I want to see a fight 'til the end, like in Wimby last year.

But Federer brainfarts to often and loses his spirit. It's kinda weird actually.

I mean, does he leave his balls at home?

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Federer has to play a perfect match to beat Nadal
That's about to be a summary of my post you referred to

spriwi
04-27-2008, 03:05 PM
fed :hug: just couldnt keep the high level long enough. same way as ferrer did, he s blown the advantage by trying to stay agressive... seems that none of the players can stay agressive in an efficient way agains rafa on clay. so far...

rafa :yeah: high time to start winning some titles :D

go for double crown :rocker2:

Manon
04-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Rafael, absolutely at his best. Hurricane from Majorca. 0-4 to 7-5 in second!

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:06 PM
Federer has to play a perfect match to beat Nadal. He did it once in a best-of-three in Hamburg.He was far from perfect in Hamburg, he served in the 30's I think to bagel Nadal, who was low in energy and didn't bother to chase balls like he usually does.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:06 PM
I still think Roger had the right game plan for most of this match (expect after 4-0). He should've really won both sets, being breaks up in both, so he needs to find a way to avoid giving up leads that easily against Nadal. I still think Djokovic is going to be challenging Nadal more on clay than Roger. Federer just goes through these patches that he is unplayable but then he plays 8 straight UEs and they are even.

Just stop now. Please.

Djokovic can't even finish a match against Roger, you think he's gonna push Nadal? :retard:

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:07 PM
That is of course not true. The first break back was due to Fed's silly errors, not errors due to requiring high accuracy. If I'm not mistaken he went to 0-30 by virtue of two mindless UEs at the net, something he usually pulls off 90% of the time.

Everybody makes silly errors. Nadal did as well. You can't just isolate Federer's errors and say that they are the cause.

The fact is that Federer dominated when the balls routinely hit lines or were in fair territory around lines. Once his accuracy began to suffer he started to lose one game after another.

This is not the way to win against Nadal, unless you can keep this up for two sets. He did it once in Hamburg. Not here.

spriwi
04-27-2008, 03:07 PM
Just stop now. Please.

Djokovic can't even finish a match against Roger, you think he's gonna push Nadal? :retard:

i agree ;):)

redreef
04-27-2008, 03:07 PM
Another clay court win for Nadal. Good for him. It's still boring, however, to watch a match where the winner's game plan is the same every time -- hit 90 percent of the balls to the opponent's backhand and wait.

Ruski
04-27-2008, 03:07 PM
This clay match loss to Rafa will hurt Fed the most!!!
He was in winning position in both sets... still was not able to win it! The most terrible thing to see was the way he gave up the first set and the match with poor choice of shots!

Case closed.... Fed will not be able to beat Rafa on clay again!

It is simply a sad loss for the Fed fans (including me), and sure for Fed himself!

FNT
04-27-2008, 03:08 PM
Good job Roger until 4-0 in the second. Choked a lot - he really had his chances to win the match, but blew each and every one.
Rafa is awesome on clay and it's great to see them playing each other again - the spirit is just so good.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:08 PM
He was far from perfect in Hamburg, he served in the 30's I think to bagel Nadal, who was low in energy and didn't bother to chase balls like he usually does.

Watch that match. Federer was awful in the first set, but was near perfection in the last two. His groundies were unusually precise.

Yes, Nadal's fatigue was a factor.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:08 PM
Horrific choke from the "world #1", he just abandoned the tactics that got him to 4-0 in the 2nd set.

The Freak
04-27-2008, 03:09 PM
This Nadal is pretty good on clay. :worship:

RagingLamb
04-27-2008, 03:09 PM
Roger did what he could. I agree with Cyborg, he couldn't keep playing at that level. He played amazing in the second set, but how long can you keep that up?

When your winners keep coming back, and like people have said, Nadal wasn't even playing at his best, that's what's so scary.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:09 PM
OTOH, I didn't expect monoFed to make the final. But once he does, suddenly we hope he can take it. Greedy fans we are.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:10 PM
That's about to be a summary of my post you referred to

Not exactly. Your point was that Roger has the game to beat Nadal on clay.

I'm not sure this is exactly true. Roger can beat Nadal on clay in a best-of-three if he plays out of his mind and/or if Nadal is off his game.

In a best-of-five match he has no chance against Nadal.

dj_mercury
04-27-2008, 03:10 PM
No fuel anymore in the tank for Fed when Nadal was coming back in the second, he started to look for easy fast points but on clay this is far from easy as seen. However given how this tournament started this was an exceptional result for Federer, hopefully he will be able to show the same consistency even in the tournaments that are coming.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:11 PM
Djokovic is more consistent than Federer. I am not saying he is a better clay courter. He is more consistent. To beat Rafa you need to be consistent. Federer was too good to go up 4-0 then was too crappy to lose 5-7. You can bet Djokovic would've protected the lead better as he doesn't make that many silly mistakes. Also his double handed backhand is a weapon not a liability like Federer's. You never know. One of these days Djokovic will not retire and we may see how well or poorly he does against Rafa

Clay Death
04-27-2008, 03:11 PM
Horrific choke from the "world #1", he just abandoned the tactics that got him to 4-0 in the 2nd set.

maybe his balls started shrinking once he fully realized that it was the Clay Monster across the net.

Clay Monster too full advantage of Fed`s one handed backhand.

Art&Soul
04-27-2008, 03:11 PM
ROGER:mad: you just waste your chance:o from brilliant tennis to shitty tennis again:o:sad::sad::sad:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:11 PM
Watch that match. Federer was awful in the first set, but was near perfection in the last two. His groundies were unusually precise.

Yes, Nadal's fatigue was a factor.He played OK off the ground, but serving less than 70% he'll always lose to Nadal on clay, and that day he served under 50% I believe.

DDrago2
04-27-2008, 03:11 PM
What is excruciating is that this match really depends on Federer alone... when he's dancing, he's just too good even for Rafa.

So true. This is exactly what spoils things for me in current moment - Nadal is thought to be the best player on clay ever, but he can't stay in the game when Federer hits full throttle.
Federer, when he steps the gas to the end, is the best player on all the surfaces.

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Clay Monster took full advantage of Fed`s one handed backhand.
But not as much as in the last two MC finals, that needs to be said

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
maybe his balls started shrinking once he fully realized that it was the Clay Monster across the net.

Clay Monster too full advantage of Fed`s one handed backhand.Here you are again, clown...

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Djokovic is more consistent than Federer. I am not saying he is a better clay courter. He is more consistent. To beat Rafa you need to be consistent. Federer was too good to go up 4-0 then was too crappy to lose 5-7. You can bet Djokovic would've protected the lead better as he doesn't make that many silly mistakes. Also his double handed backhand is a weapon not a liability like Federer's. You never know. One of these days Djokovic will not retire and we may see how well or poorly he does against Rafa

You're an idiot. Even if Djokovic had a 3 handed backhand he still wont win a set vs. Nadal.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
He played OK off the ground, but serving less than 70% he'll always lose to Nadal on clay, and that day he served under 50% I believe.

That's because you're counting his awful first set serving results and not taking into account his ground game.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Clay Death - I have to agree with you. Fed is a massive choker to Nadal on clay. I don't understand why Nadal hasn't been able to beat him at Wimbly yet. Somehow the grass makes Federer's brain not meltdown.

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
Everybody makes silly errors. Nadal did as well. You can't just isolate Federer's errors and say that they are the cause.

The fact is that Federer dominated when the balls routinely hit lines or were in fair territory around lines. Once his accuracy began to suffer he started to lose one game after another.

Oh, come on. I'm not overly disappointed despite this tough loss, but you can not be serious about this. It wasn't just stupid mistakes, at one point he just couldn't hit a deep forehand without it going long. He couldn't finish a point at the net no matter how easy it was. Etc. It was definitely nerves getting the better of him, when he saw that Nadal is waking up he got scared as usual. Not that I blame him, I'd be scared myself if I were in his shoes.

And about Fed hitting lines, true, but did you see how many Nadal's own balls painted lines? Did he not break him on a let cord, did he not win the set with a backhand short slice that touched the outside of the line?

Nadal is a monster on clay and I'm not surprised Federer doesn't feel very confident, even though I think he should find it in itself somehow. He can definitely go toe to toe with Nadal on clay, the difference is exactly this confidence. Nadal's is sky high on clay, Fed's not even close.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
So true. This is exactly what spoils things for me in current moment - Nadal is thought to be the best player on clay ever, but he can't stay in the game when Federer hits full throttle.
Federer, when he steps the gas to the end, is the best player on all the surfaces.

:retard:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
That's because you're counting his awful first set serving results.Check it out, mate, he served at 40% in the 3rd, the famous bagel set!

alfonsojose
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
This clay match loss to Rafa will hurt Fed the most!!!
He was in winning position in both sets... still was not able to win it! The most terrible thing to see was the way he gave up the first set and the match with poor choice of shots!

Case closed.... Fed will not be able to beat Rafa on clay again!

It is simply a sad loss for the Fed fans (including me), and sure for Fed himself!

He did give up and choke, but i think Roger won't feel that bad. The week has been amazing for him and some of his new tactics worked well. Plenty of time to improve :D

RagingLamb
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
Why are people talking about Jokovic in this thread?

spriwi
04-27-2008, 03:14 PM
Another clay court win for Nadal. Good for him. It's still boring, however, to watch a match where the winner's game plan is the same every time -- hit 90 percent of the balls to the opponent's backhand and wait.

it's clay. it's always like that if a player wants to win. keep pushing the ball to the other side making the smallest numer of ues.

some may say it's boring to see a million of winning serves @ wimby. or serve- winning return.

it's just the surface feature...
de gustibus non est disputandum ;)

FedFan
04-27-2008, 03:14 PM
Congrats Rafa for the victory! :worship:

It was a little bit disappointing,that Roger could not win the second set after a 4:0 lead. Time to keep your head together, Roger. :smash:

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:14 PM
I guess it's obvious who's an idiot here. IMO, Djokovic can push Nadal more than Federer. He doesn't respect Nadal like Federer does. Hey. If you think I am wrong that's fine but why do you insult?

tennizen
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Finally a title for Rafa:woohoo: Congrats to Fed. For a while in the second set it looked like it would be a repeat of Hamburg. I still think its a great week for Fed the way he beat Nalby and Djoker. And Nadal well its a great achievement to win 4 MC in a row.

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Nadal move up on all-time greatest titlists

19. Ken Rosewall 25
Brian Gottfried 25
Jose-Luis Clerc 25
Andy Roddick 25
20. Vitas Gerulaitis 24
Rafael Nadal 24
21. Yannick Noah 23
Jim Courier 23

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
I guess it's obvious who's an idiot here. IMO, Djokovic can push Nadal more than Federer. He doesn't respect Nadal like Federer does. Hey. If you think I am wrong that's fine but why do you insult?

How many sets has Djoko taken off of Nadal on clay?

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:16 PM
I guess it's obvious who's an idiot here. IMO, Djokovic can push Nadal more than Federer. He doesn't respect Nadal like Federer does. Hey. If you think I am wrong that's fine but why do you insult?

Because you are intentionally trolling.

You cannot seriously think that Djokovic will push Nadal more than Federer

Forehander
04-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Everybody!!! I think I have found the answer to Roger's lost!! He was just testing if his new found super powers on clay would work on Nadal or not! He was leading all throughout the match and missed easy put aways! He is saving it for FO!!! He's tanking!!! Whoohoooo!

Action Jackson
04-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Never in doubt.

mickymouse
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
Congrats to Nadal. Too good on clay.
Good tournament for Federer nevertheless.

groundstroke
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
How many sets has Djoko taken off of Nadal on clay?
He has a point, although Federer has a better chance of beating Nadal on clay, Djokovic just has something about him that can push Nadal away.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
Mark. Djokovic has not played Nadal yet after losing to him last year. He is a different player this year. I guess what I am trying to say is he is the best chance Roger has to winning the French. Federer can't beat Nadal on clay so he better hopes that Djokovic can do the job for him. I do like to see Nadal Murray on clay but that's another story.

rolandgarros
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
who knows the stats of WINNERS and UES,pls,thank you

spriwi
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
You're an idiot. Even if Djokovic had a 3 handed backhand he still wont win a set vs. Nadal.

nah, you overdo it. :p

you have to see the difference between playing a single & double hander vs a huge topsin.

you can't play a single hander from over your head, you can a) go in and risk more while hitting the ball right after the bounce b) go back and wait for ball to fall which gives some nice angles to your opponent.

it's whole lot easier to control a high double handed backhand. trust me. ;)

:wavey:

Art&Soul
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
:retard:

:rolleyes: When ROGI play the way leading 4-0 Nadal can't do anything but sad that's he can't keep his level :sad:

Smasher
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
King of clay, congrats Rafa :hatoff: It's good to see Federer playing some great tennis again, although that second set went how it went :yeah:

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
Everybody!!! I think I have found the answer to Roger's lost!! He was just testing if his new found super powers on clay would work on Nadal or not! He was leading all throughout the match and missed easy put aways! He is saving it for FO!!! He's tanking!!! Whoohoooo!
Notice that not a single Fedtard came up with excuses today

spriwi
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
who know the stats of WINNERS and UES,pls,thank you

23-44 for fed
15-20 for rafa

Forehander
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
I guess it's obvious who's an idiot here. IMO, Djokovic can push Nadal more than Federer. He doesn't respect Nadal like Federer does. Hey. If you think I am wrong that's fine but why do you insult?

:haha:

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:19 PM
Neither Djokovic nor Murray have any shot of beating Nadal, don't kid yourself.

Only 3 players have a chance of beating Nadal, and they have to play out of their mind best tennis to do so.

Fed
Nalbandian
Pics

in that order

Chiseller
04-27-2008, 03:19 PM
If anyone wanna tell me that this matchup is not mental, then just take a look at their previous encounters. If Fed would get rid of it he would be able to take him to 3 resp. 5 sets more often.
Today's result is a perfect example.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
:rolleyes: When ROGI play the way leading 4-0 Nadal can't do anything but sad that's he can't keep his level :sad:

Strategic 4 game tank by Nadal.

He merely wanted to make it interesting instead of blowing Roger away 6-2

Blue Heart24
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
Congrats to Nadal,deserved victory :)
Fed was awful though.

Myrre
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
I had a bad feeling when Roger changed racquets at 4-0. Why change anything when you're in the zone and playing great? After that he hardly won a point. Craptastic.

groundstroke
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
All you Rafa fans can't deny that when Fed was 4-0 up in the 2nd, you pretty much wanted to kill Roger for playing so amazing.

Adler
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
Strategic 4 game tank by Nadal.

He merely wanted to make it interesting instead of blowing Roger away 6-2
At least Federer avoided being a customer of his bakery :)

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
All you Rafa fans can't deny that when Fed was 4-0 up in the 2nd, you pretty much wanted to kill Roger for playing so amazing.

Oh please. When Roger was up 4-0 i waited for Nadal to make his comeback like he always does.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
Nalbandian couldn't beat Federer on clay man. He is a different player on Hardcourt but on clay he ain't going to beat Nadal. Murray won't beat Nadal either but it'd be an interesting match. Djokovic can definitely push Nadal. Call me an idiot but the doublehanded backhand and the way he manhandled Nadal on HCs this year gives me hope that Djokovic may pull it off. I am not a fan of Djoko but Federer. I want Fed to win without going through Nadal. He has proved he can't beat Nadal on clay (1-7 now)

wildegirl05
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
great match to see, lots of great play albeit in patches. so happy to see rafa with his first title! :dance:

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
Oh, come on. I'm not overly disappointed despite this tough loss, but you can not be serious about this. It wasn't just stupid mistakes, at one point he just couldn't hit a deep forehand without it going long. He couldn't finish a point at the net no matter how easy it was. Etc. It was definitely nerves getting the better of him, when he saw that Nadal is waking up he got scared as usual. Not that I blame him, I'd be scared myself if I were in his shoes.

You have to understand Roger's game in order to get my point. He doesn't hit the ball like Nadal does. He takes it earlier - earlier than any player in tennis. The reason why he started shanking and netting balls is because his timing began to elude him. He alternated from perfection to disaster throughout the match, because there are two extremes with Roger on clay: a) greatness; b) awfulness. He knows that the only way for him to beat Nadal is through precise timing and location. But he cannot keep it up - not right now at least. Maybe in Rome. But it won't win him a Roland Garros crown, because to beat the best on clay one has to be solid and consistent, not necessarily 'great' and certainly not 'awful'.

And about Fed hitting lines, true, but did you see how many Nadal's own balls painted lines? Did he not break him on a let cord, did he not win the set with a backhand short slice that touched the outside of the line?

Again, you have to understand Nadal's game. He is like an orangutan with bow-like arms. He hits everything with topspin and less flat. This allows for greater consistency. I have followed Borg for much of my life and the recipe to his success for to hit deep and with topspin, which allowed for greater accuracy and helped him win long rallies. Roger is currently working on this - developing more of a loop, but he doesn't have the kind of upper body extension that Rafa possesses. He wasn't built for clay. So to win he still has to hit lines by hitting early.

Nadal is a monster on clay and I'm not surprised Federer doesn't feel very confident, even though I think he should find it in itself somehow. He can definitely go toe to toe with Nadal on clay, the difference is exactly this confidence. Nadal's is sky high on clay, Fed's not even close.

Of course Roger isn't confident. He can't win long rallies against Nadal which forces him to hit very early. A purer clay courter would go more down the middle with massive topspin and grind. Roger can't do this - it would mean he'd have to settle farther back behind the baseline. He prefers to stay on it and even closer and avoid high-bouncing moonballs.

Roland9
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
If anyone could push Nadal this much, it was Federer... He did push him, but he simply had too many ups and downs in this match. Poor serving as well. I thought that 4-0 lead was never really decisive for the 2nd set. Overall, I think this was a promising match from Federer tactically, finally he used some variation. But mentally, not really promising.

Nadal, what can you say?.. A true fighter and a champion. He started the match poorly, but as always, he got better as the match progressed, played very well towards the end of the first set. The second set, well, I felt it was mostly due to the weird up and down thing from Roger, but only a true fighter could take advantage from it.

And hey, Nadal made history here. 4th straight Monte Carlo title. That's amazing.

I think this was a pretty great week from Federer, considering his earlier form. This match might bother him of course but still, it seems he's taking a step in the right direction, especially by hiring Higueras. That said, a huge well done and gratz to Nadal.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:22 PM
Well Roger was absolutely dominating at *4-1, and then let his brain melt down.

Joretus
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
I hope that more ppl could be good winners(Rafa) or losers(Federer). Some current players(not giving any names, you know who you are)could take example. But of course mostly that goes for all these posters not being sporty. And giving some1 respect(Roger to Rafa and Rafa to Roger) doesn't mean you wouldn't do everything possible to win...

Manon
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
Federer, when he steps the gas to the end, is the best player on all the surfaces.

Good God.....what a stupidity.

RogerFan82
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
Congrats nadal !!!! Roger keep plugging away and never give up against Nadal on clay. That's all I can say. Look at how Roddick keeps fighting against you, even though he knows he is going to lose.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
Nalbandian couldn't beat Federer on clay man. He is a different player on Hardcourt but on clay he ain't going to beat Nadal. Murray won't beat Nadal either but it'd be an interesting match. Djokovic can definitely push Nadal. Call me an idiot but the doublehanded backhand and the way he manhandled Nadal on HCs this year gives me hope that Djokovic may pull it off. I am not a fan of Djoko but Federer. I want Fed to win without going through Nadal. He has proved he can't beat Nadal on clay (1-7 now)

What are you, CD now with your 2 handed backhand bullshit?

It has nothing to do with Rafa's high forehand to the Djoko backhand, it has to do with the fact that Nadal is lightyears ahead of Djokovic in every aspect of clay court play.

Far too many people place emphasis on Nadal's HC losses meaning he will lose on clay too. That bullshit. Djokovic CANNOT beat Nadal on clay

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:24 PM
I don't even care if Fed wins Rome beating Nadal in the process. That would just be Hamburg v 2.0, because if Nadal gets to the Rome final that would be 3 straight weeks and he'll be dead.

FedFan
04-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Well Roger was absolutely dominating at *4-1, and then let his brain melt down.


This is not an excuse. In tennis you also need your brain to win.

Kitty de Sade
04-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Unpretty match, especially for Fed in the 2nd. Unfortunate to see him give up two breaks.

Congrats to Rafa though- what a fighter. Enjoy the 1st title of the year. :clap2:

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Neither Djokovic nor Murray have any shot of beating Nadal, don't kid yourself.

Only 3 players have a chance of beating Nadal, and they have to play out of their mind best tennis to do so.

Fed
Nalbandian
Pics

in that order

Well, Nalbandian is still a mystery however. They have never played on clay so we don't really know what it would look like.

Chances are he might well prove to be his clay-nemesis. Did you see what happened there today? Fucking 80% of rally hit points went to Fed's BH. Damn you Rafa :mad: :bowdown: it's soo easy for you, you need no special strategy to beat poor Fed, as it's obvious form an airplane what needs to be done; just keep pounding his BH and that's it, Fed needs to be playing out of his mind to cope with that alone.

But Nalbandian? His BH, when on, is out of this world. I'm really itching in anticipation of that matchup on clay...

RogiRafaFan86
04-27-2008, 03:25 PM
All you Rafa fans can't deny that when Fed was 4-0 up in the 2nd, you pretty much wanted to kill Roger for playing so amazing.

Oh I can deny that. But that's because I'm one of those wacky 'Fedal' fans. I was loving him playing such amazing tennis. But it wasn't all him. It's not like Rafa took that momentum from the end of the 1st and just continued it. Yes, Fed stepped it up, you had to expect that. But Rafa, like he did all week really, had a serious let-off at the start of the 2nd. It happens, and he's won in straights every time despite it - but he still needs to take a serious look at that. Because eventually it will bite him in the ass.

rolandgarros
04-27-2008, 03:25 PM
23-44 for fed
15-20 for rafa

thanks

Corey Feldman
04-27-2008, 03:26 PM
Good God.....what a stupidity.
:lol:

hey Manon :hug:

Commander Data
04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
Great! Nadal as usually, a Clay-Monster. And Roger showed he is still the old Rog, mono is past. He played as good as last year. So, it's all good.

The second set was a pity, sure. But Fed showed that he can beat Rafa. he can do it but he needs to be 100 % all the time. it is hard, but he can do it someday. I do not necesseraly think Fed choked that much. he needs to hit the lines and go for everything to be on top of Nadal. It is just very hard to keep that level. Once he started to cool off Nadal steamrolled him. poor Rogi.....


But good tactics until 0:4 from Fed. coach might help him to find the perfect gameplan until RG?

Action Jackson
04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
You have to understand Roger's game in order to get my point. He doesn't hit the ball like Nadal does. He takes it earlier - earlier than any player in tennis. The reason why he started shanking and netting balls is because his timing began to elude him. He alternated from perfection to disaster throughout the match, because there are two extremes with Roger on clay: a) greatness; b) awfulness. He knows that the only way to beat Nadal is through precise timing and location. But he cannot keep it up - not right now at least. Maybe in Rome. But it won't win him a Roland Garros crown, because to beat the best on clay one has to be solid and consistent, not necessarily 'great' and certainly not 'awful'.

Look at that 2nd set, a double break ahead and the feeling was that he still wasn't going to win it.


Again, you have to understand Nadal's game. He is like an orangutan with bow-like arms. He hits everything with topspin and less flat. This allows for greater consistency. I have followed Borg for much of my life and the recipe to his success for to hit deep and with topspin, which allowed for greater accuracy and helped him win long rallies. Roger is currently working on this - developing more of a loop, but he doesn't have the kind of upper body extension that Rafa possesses. He wasn't built for clay. So to win he still has to hit lines by hitting early and relatively straight.

Federer can play his hardcourt game and win most of the time on clay, but that doesn't work against the best in the business at the moment and won't. He showed there were some good tactics, but they count for crap, if they can't be executed consistently.

Of course Roger isn't confident. He can't win long rallies against Nadal which forces him to hit very early and go for corners. A purer clay courter would go more down the middle with massive topspin. Roger can't do this - it would mean he'd have to settle farther back behind the baseline. He prefers to stay on it and even closer and avoid high-bouncing moonballs.

He can't win the rallies on a consistent basis and there is a bit of the Becker syndrome, he has to win solely from the baseline, that just won't happen against Nadal.

This match showed what we already knew though with this respective match up on clay.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
4 Monte Carlo titles in a row? A new record? Nadal can retire happy now.

raven gypsy
04-27-2008, 03:28 PM
:hug: to all Fed fans.

He really came back this week, upped his level showed us many shots that reminded us all why he's still the best in the world.

VAMOS RAFA - really nice to see him win a title. He'll head into the clay season with good confidence.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Dude. Djokovic does not respect Nadal. His backhand is more consistent that Rogi and his serve has improved a lot. He did lose to Roger but other than that he was very impressive. Think about matchups dude not that he is a quitter or he lost to Roger. I am sure Djokovic and Nadal will play at least once before the French so we will know more. Novak is a different player this year. Let's not forget he straight setted Roger in a grand slam (not done for a long long time).

peterparker
04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Federer still doesn't look totally fit. He totally fell apart immediately after the "woo hoo" point. Starting walking around the court the way he usually does in the 4th set against davydenko. Very reminiscent of the fall in energy after the long point somewhere early in the 4th set of the last FO final against nadal.

That 2nd set looked like a typical fed. thrashing of nadal (hit like 20 lines in those first 4 games), which nadal usually regroups from and puts away Federer in the next set. But in this case Nadal actually came back in the same set. Awesome!

Nadal is moving really well, but I don't see any improvements in the nadal clay game from last year :(.

Parker

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
raven - sorry but FedMug is NOT the best in the world when he has 1-7 record to Nadal on clay which is the most important surface. Nadal is the *real #1".

freeandlonely
04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Credits to him but boring style
Fed's game is much more beautiful
kind of pity

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
You have to understand Roger's game in order to get my point. He doesn't hit the ball like Nadal does. He takes it earlier - earlier than any player in tennis. The reason why he started shanking and netting balls is because his timing began to elude him. He alternated from perfection to disaster throughout the match, because there are two extremes with Roger on clay: a) greatness; b) awfulness. He knows that the only way for him to beat Nadal is through precise timing and location. But he cannot keep it up - not right now at least.

Wasn't that what I said? Nerves got to him. It went too well for 15 minutes, then he noticed Nadal waking up and it froze him a bit. Not much but enough for him to start giving Nadal freebies. That's all Nadal needs to come back like this.

BTW, Davydenko takes the ball as early as Fed is not even earlier :devil:

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Dude. Djokovic does not respect Nadal. His backhand is more consistent that Rogi and his serve has improved a lot. He did lose to Roger but other than that he was very impressive. Think about matchups dude not that he is a quitter or he lost to Roger. I am sure Djokovic and Nadal will play at least once before the French so we will know more. Novak is a different player this year. Let's not forget he straight setted Roger in a grand slam (not done for a long long time).

we're not talking about Djokovic beating Monofed, we are talking about how he can fare against Nadal. True, he is a different player this year than last but that still doesn't change the fact that he cannot beat Nadal on clay.

Djokovic can't stay with Nadal on clay

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Federer still doesn't look totally fit. He totally fell apart immediately after the "woo hoo" point. Starting walking around the court the way he usually does in the 4th set against davydenko. Very reminiscent of the fall in energy after the long point somewhere early in the 4th set of the last FO final against nadal.

That 2nd set looked like a typical fed. thrashing of nadal (hit like 20 lines in those first 4 games), which nadal usually regroups from and puts away Federer in the next set. But in this case Nadal actually came back in the same set. Awesome!

Nadal is moving really well, but I don't see any improvements in the nadal clay game from last year :(.

Parker

Why does he have to improve? Staying the same level as 2006 is good enough until 2011, then he can retire with 7 French Opens, 7 Monte Carlos, 7 Romes, etc...

Forehander
04-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Nalbandian couldn't beat Federer on clay man. He is a different player on Hardcourt but on clay he ain't going to beat Nadal. Murray won't beat Nadal either but it'd be an interesting match. Djokovic can definitely push Nadal. Call me an idiot but the doublehanded backhand and the way he manhandled Nadal on HCs this year gives me hope that Djokovic may pull it off. I am not a fan of Djoko but Federer. I want Fed to win without going through Nadal. He has proved he can't beat Nadal on clay (1-7 now)

Think we don't need your analysis when even Nadal's own coach Uncle Toni called Nalbandian "the most dangerous rival for Nadal due to his pure phenomenal talent" after being absolute thrashed last year. In terms of double handed backhand Nalbandian IMO have the best in terms of technique and coordination. Did you watch the match with him and Fed? Was pure art form that backhand. And you said Nalbandian can't even beat Federer? Clearly Djokovic couldn't beat Federer as well yesterday lol. If you've ever played DECENT clay courts with the proper balls then you will know it's an absolutely different game. Djokovic won't beat Nadal on clay.

ShotmaKer
04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Well congrats to Rafa!! He just played amazingly... Well Fed, I dunno what to say... Good week though, but to paraphrase his speech, "it always ends that way"... Still, he can improve some stuffs, and he can push Rafa obviously, so a great clay season in prospect...
Congrats to both:):worship:

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:33 PM
Look at that 2nd set, a double break ahead and the feeling was that he still wasn't going to win it.

I thought he was going to win it. I didn't get this 'feeling', but maybe you did get his feeling.

My feeling (at 4-0) was that Roger was going to win the second set and then fall apart in the third. Two breaks was a big lead.

Federer can play his hardcourt game and win most of the time on clay, but that doesn't work against the best in the business at the moment and won't. He showed there were some good tactics, but they count for crap, if they can't be executed consistently.

The tactics cannot be executed, because they demand too much from Federer. He's not superhuman enough to play such precise tennis. He's human. The only way to win on clay against the best (the truly best) is to beat them at their game. This means that a guy has to grind and soak up the topspin effectively. Roger over the years has not done this. He has attempted to avoid this by playing essentially a hard-court game. Hitting early, serving well, hitting lines. But this is much too demanding to execute consistently. In a long match it's impossible.

Higueras did do some good things for Roger, but it won't help him against Rafa.

He can't win the rallies on a consistent basis and there is a bit of the Becker syndrome, he has to win solely from the baseline, that just won't happen against Nadal.

This match showed what we already knew though with this respective match up on clay.

At least Becker knew that he could serve and volley impeccably. Roger isn't that good a volleyer at this point.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:34 PM
How can you claim he can't beat Nadal on clay if they haven't played this year. I don't get it. A whole lot of people thought Federer would beat Nadal today even though he was running a strong 1-6 against Rafa. You can't for sure say that Djokovic has no chance against Rafa unless they play. Is the draw for the next MC out? Let's hope they play in the semis and see what happens. Double handed backhand is very important man. Djoko's backhand doesn't go off like Federer and he will kill Nadal with it if Nadal went there 80% of the time.

*bunny*
04-27-2008, 03:34 PM
Congrats, Rafa!!
:banana::banana::banana:
:worship::worship::worship:
:yippee::yippee::yippee:

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Nadal already best ever on clay, Roger can retire in humiliation knowing that in his "#1 years" he was thoroughly whipped on clay. Fed is Nadal's Roddick. More humiliation is in the offing.

Bibberz
04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Federer still doesn't look totally fit. He totally fell apart immediately after the "woo hoo" point.

That "woo hoo" caught me off guard. I almost thought someone was playing Blur's "Song 2."

RogerFan82
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
If Nole complains of breathlessness after a long rally with Fed, then he'll need oxygen masks after 3 games with Rafa on clay.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
How can you claim he can't beat Nadal on clay if they haven't played this year. I don't get it. A whole lot of people thought Federer would beat Nadal today even though he was running a strong 1-6 against Rafa. You can't for sure say that Djokovic has no chance against Rafa unless they play. Is the draw for the next MC out? Let's hope they play in the semis and see what happens. Double handed backhand is very important man. Djoko's backhand doesn't go off like Federer and he will kill Nadal with it if Nadal went there 80% of the time.

You're a mug. Anyone with any type of tennis intelligence knew Federer wasn't winning today, but that is irrelevent.

NADAL WILL NOT LOSE TO DJOKOVIC. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF HIS ASS

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
For you to claim that Nalbandian is more of a challenge to Rafa on this surface is just being ignorant. Fat Dave can dominate Rafa on HCs but not on clay man. What are you smoking? Uncle Tony is on crack for saying that (it's totally disrespectful toward Roger). Maybe Roger should put that guy in his place (oh wait. He did once when he was giving Rafa instructions).

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
How can you claim he can't beat Nadal on clay if they haven't played this year. I don't get it. A whole lot of people thought Federer would beat Nadal today even though he was running a strong 1-6 against Rafa. You can't for sure say that Djokovic has no chance against Rafa unless they play. Is the draw for the next MC out? Let's hope they play in the semis and see what happens. Double handed backhand is very important man. Djoko's backhand doesn't go off like Federer and he will kill Nadal with it if Nadal went there 80% of the time.

Please don't speak to me about that quitter Djerk. He's a disgrace to tennis.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
For you to claim that Nalbandian is more of a challenge to Rafa on this surface is just being ignorant. Fat Dave can dominate Rafa on HCs but not on clay man. What are you smoking? Uncle Tony is on crack for saying that (it's totally disrespectful toward Roger). Maybe Roger should put that guy in his place (oh wait. He did once when he was giving Rafa instructions).

Go ahead and keep thinking Djokovic has a shot against Nadal. Would you like to wager a bet on it if they meet in Rome or RG?

Please don't speak to me about that quitter Djerk. He's a disgrace to tennis.

He wasn't talking to you, you clown.

In fact, no one is.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:38 PM
Wasn't that what I said? Nerves got to him. It went too well for 15 minutes, then he noticed Nadal waking up and it froze him a bit. Not much but enough for him to start giving Nadal freebies. That's all Nadal needs to come back like this.

All guys are nervous and all go through ups and downs over the course of a match. You cannot say that nerves were the problem for Roger.

The great fallacy that many are making here is in assuming that the Roger who went up 4-0 on Nadal in the second set was the 'normal' Roger. No - that was Roger playing out of his mind. And by playing this well he essentially exhausted himself. Playing on clay is about spreading oneself out over the whole match - it's about consistency, fight and brawn. It's not about playing 'perfect tennis', because this only lasts a limited time.

BTW, Davydenko takes the ball as early as Fed is not even earlier :devil:

Well, ya. And he can't even beat Federer on this stuff.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:39 PM
Fed off to his worst start since 2000. :retard: I think he's done.

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:39 PM
The tactics cannot be executed, because they demand too much from Federer. He's not superhuman enough to play such precise tennis. He's human. The only way to win on clay against the best (the truly best) is to beat them at their game. This means that a guy has to grind and soak up the topspin effectively. Roger over the years has not done this. He has attempted to avoid this by playing essentially a hard-court game. Hitting early, serving well, hitting lines. But this is much too demanding to execute consistently. In a long match it's impossible.

I see your point but I disagree. He doesn't have to paint lines all the time, in fact, I think that it's precisely that idea that causes him to start making so many errors. He goes for too much. He didn't have to win those first 4 games by letting Nadal only a couple of points. It's not neccessary. What is better is to win a game from 40-40, not self-destruct and lose it as he usually does (granted, not just him but everyone, when they play against Nadal). So, you don't have to paint lines all the time, just occasionally. It is way more important to be focused and NOT let easy putaways slip away from him, like he did numerous times from being 4-1 up.

It takes guts, no more, no less. He has the ability, I'm sure of it, even though it is a horrible matchup for him.

Action Jackson
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
I thought he was going to win it. I didn't get this 'feeling', but maybe you did get his feeling.

My feeling (at 4-0) was that Roger was going to win the second set and then fall apart in the third. Two breaks was a big lead.

I still thought Nadal would win in 2 and Fed did well to get 10 games in this match. There was never a feeling that Nadal was going to lose, even down 0-4, just something about the match.

The tactics cannot be executed, because they demand too much from Federer. He's not superhuman enough to play such precise tennis. He's human. The only way to win on clay against the best (the truly best) is to beat them at their game. This means that a guy has to grind and soak up the topspin effectively. Roger over the years has not done this. He has attempted to avoid this by playing essentially a hard-court game. Hitting early, serving well, hitting lines. But this is much too demanding to execute consistently. In a long match it's impossible.

Well he is going to have rally at times, but that's not it. He is not going outlast Nadal in a war of attrition, he has to out think him, yes that means changing the location of serves, short slices, some big moonballs as well. Giving Rafa rhythm is like giving an alcoholic free keys to brewery.

Higueras did do some good things for Roger, but it won't help him against Rafa.

It will help him, but only so much, unless he actually believes that he can execute the tactics.

At least Becker knew that he could serve and volley impeccably. Roger isn't that good a volleyer at this point.

You just said that Federer needs to play Nadal at his own game, but as for serve/volleying that could work, but not all the time. He has to hit deep enough shots to sneak in and take the floaters out of the air.

What comes down to is simply that Federer isn't beating Nadal solely from the baseline, but you and I know this.

HarryMan
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Nadal already best ever on clay, Roger can retire in humiliation knowing that in his "#1 years" he was thoroughly whipped on clay. Fed is Nadal's Roddick. More humiliation is in the offing.

What a retard :retard::retard:

Why should he retire in humiliation when he has had a great week beating good quality players and only losing to someone who has won 98 of his previous 99 matches on this surface?

Anyway Great week for both the top two players, congrats Roger on a excellent week:hug:

And Nadal is really a fucking unstoppable beast on this surface :worship:

Bobby
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
How can you claim he can't beat Nadal on clay if they haven't played this year. I don't get it. A whole lot of people thought Federer would beat Nadal today even though he was running a strong 1-6 against Rafa. You can't for sure say that Djokovic has no chance against Rafa unless they play. Is the draw for the next MC out? Let's hope they play in the semis and see what happens. Double handed backhand is very important man. Djoko's backhand doesn't go off like Federer and he will kill Nadal with it if Nadal went there 80% of the time.

Djokovic would retire if he played against Nadal on clay. He would see how it goes during the first set. After losing the set it would be safe to retire and say that he had a sore throat and the doctor is wrong when he said he was healthy.

gulzhan
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Pretty ordinary final IMO, and certainly didnít live up to expectations. Nadal didnít play anywhere near his best and still managed to beat the world #1 in straight sets in under two hours. The standard of play was much lower than weíve come to expect when these two go head to head as neither played their best tennis at the same time.


Everybody!!! I think I have found the answer to Roger's lost!! He's tanking!!! Whoohoooo!

Strange final. I had a feeling that neither of them cared about the result :eek:

Commander Data
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Why talk about the Joker? As long as he has not pushed Nadal on clay, there is no reason to assume he can beat him. Fakervic may rather retire at 6:2 5:1 ......

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
In fact, no one is.

:haha: I just wanted to say that myself but thought, heck, why bother. :devil:

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
Alas Roger has no guts on clay. He just puts on the pink tutu whenever he sees the Clay Monster across the net. Turns into an absolute mental midget.

Forehander
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
How can you claim he can't beat Nadal on clay if they haven't played this year. I don't get it. A whole lot of people thought Federer would beat Nadal today even though he was running a strong 1-6 against Rafa. You can't for sure say that Djokovic has no chance against Rafa unless they play. Is the draw for the next MC out? Let's hope they play in the semis and see what happens. Double handed backhand is very important man. Djoko's backhand doesn't go off like Federer and he will kill Nadal with it if Nadal went there 80% of the time.

Ok man here's the thing lol you're definitely overating djokovic's backhand. I know it's good but it won't kill Nadal on clay. THe only backhand possible to kill Nadal on clay (though i doubt as well) is Nalbandian's. Everything will be grinded down by Nadal end of story. But yeh lets hope the next MC draw they'll be on the same side.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
I am not a fan of Djoko. I think he is a quitter and a cheater. Having said that, you can't deny the fact that he has game. Roger has been really frustrating against Rafa. I believe every one of those 8 matches he went in claiming to having a chance. But he loses every time. Also, I never said Djoko will actually beat Rafa, but he will have the best chance and I stand behind it. Now if he goes and quits after the 1st game, then we won't be surprised, would we? But you can't honestly claim that Djoko has absolutely no chance of beating Nadal this year unless they play at least once. Roger? No. He ain't gonna beat Rafa and he showed it today. If you can't win a 4-0 set, then you can't win at all. You say it's Nalbanidan, I say it's Djokovic, but until they play you can't be that sure, can you? Stop being so freaking in love with Nadal man. At least remove that Spanish Flag of yours so it's not that obvious.

LinkMage
04-27-2008, 03:42 PM
Expected straights sets victory for Rafito.

Same story as ever: Fed has numerous chances to win the match but finds a way to blow it. Too many UEs as always against Nadal. I'm surprised he won 4 of 5 BPs today as he usually wastes the majority of those against Rafa (see RG final last year), but today he couldn't hold serve to save his life. He couldn't put a 1st serve in most of the time.

Sjengster
04-27-2008, 03:43 PM
A perfect example of how one point can shift the momentum completely, even on clay. Federer played brilliantly to get to 4-0 up, then the moment he lost that epic rally it was as if he realised that he was going to be facing that remorseless groundstroking from Nadal right until the end of the match and just tried to hit his way out of trouble from that moment on. He might have noticed that he actually had more success with short angles and higher shots to Nadal's backhand, dragging him out of court, to get that 4-0 lead in the first place, but never mind; he might make two tiebreaks next time.

Bibberz
04-27-2008, 03:43 PM
Playing on clay is about spreading oneself out over the whole match - it's about consistency, fight and brawn. It's not about playing 'perfect tennis', because this only lasts a limited time.

Definitely. Federer will never play "perfect tennis" against Rafa--even in a best-of-three-sets match. He's better off playing smarter tennis, whatever the hell that entails....

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
I am willing to entertain a bet. I know there is a 90% chance that Djoko will quit but still I will take that 10%

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
Fed also lost because of the mono.

Bobby
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
I don't think it was a pure choke from Federer. He played some really excellent tennis in the beginning of the second set, and it was very likely that he wouldn't be able to maintain that level of play. Sure, there was some careless play as well but I wouldn't really call it a choke.

morningglory
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
clay monster aka back board retriever wins again :o

Forehander
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
For you to claim that Nalbandian is more of a challenge to Rafa on this surface is just being ignorant. Fat Dave can dominate Rafa on HCs but not on clay man. What are you smoking? Uncle Tony is on crack for saying that (it's totally disrespectful toward Roger). Maybe Roger should put that guy in his place (oh wait. He did once when he was giving Rafa instructions).

K dun think we need to talk anymore. If you play tennis yourself and know more about it you'll realise uncle toni wasn't on crack talking trash. It's not disrespectful to Fed as well because what Toni meant was the matchup.

GugaF1
04-27-2008, 03:45 PM
Alas Roger has no guts on clay. He just puts on the pink tutu whenever he sees the Clay Monster across the net. Turns into an absolute mental midget.

How are you a Fefan really, when you seem to support him only when he wins and plays really well. Then is all compliments but, when he faces challenges and eventually loses you come down hard on him like that.I don't get it. Is easy to only compliment a player when he dominates, anyone can do that. A real fan of a player stays with him even in distress..

Apemant
04-27-2008, 03:45 PM
He might have noticed that he actually had more success with short angles and higher shots to Nadal's backhand, dragging him out of court, to get that 4-0 lead in the first place, but never mind; he might make two tiebreaks next time.

I'm not sure if he can take this in a positive manner though... I wonder what he thinks about it right now. ;)

peterparker
04-27-2008, 03:46 PM
Why does he have to improve? Staying the same level as 2006 is good enough until 2011, then he can retire with 7 French Opens, 7 Monte Carlos, 7 Romes, etc...

I don't see anyone in the cohort below him (donald young's group) who can challenge him on clay. Djokovic will obviously get fitter and he has a better backhand than roger (although not as good an athlete), which is a reason to improve. He really should aim for more than 7 FO, at that point he needs to prepare for the guys 5-6years younger than him.

Parker

Sjengster
04-27-2008, 03:46 PM
One possibly useless but interesting piece of trivia: their 15th meeting, and the first time that Nadal has ever started the match serving. That did play a factor in the end, as when he made comebacks in both sets he was in front again and therefore put that little bit more pressure on Federer to hold. Still an abysmal collapse in the last game though, it was as if he didn't want to get to the tiebreak.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:46 PM
I still thought Nadal would win in 2 and Fed did well to get 10 games in this match. There was never a feeling that Nadal was going to lose, even down 0-4, just something about the match.

I think that we agree that the feeling was that Roger wasn't going to win the match. I agree on that.

Well he is going to have rally at times, but that's not it. He is not going outlast Nadal in a war of attrition, he has to out think him, yes that means changing the location of serves, short slices, some big moonballs as well. Giving Rafa rhythm is like giving an alcoholic free keys to brewery.

Yes and this made some sense, but in order to execute Roger knew that he had to play impeccably. It was too much to ask.

It will help him, but only so much, unless he actually believes that he can execute the tactics.

I think that about 10% of the time Roger can execute the tactics and win a best-of-three match against Nadal.

You just said that Federer needs to play Nadal at his own game, but as for serve/volleying that could work, but not all the time. He has to hit deep enough shots to sneak in and take the floaters out of the air.

No, I didn't exactly say that. I don't think that Roger should beat Nadal at his own game. I said that in order to truly be better than Nadal one has to play a pure clay court game to counter Nadal's clay court game. Roger, in my opinion, cannot do this. I do not, by any means, think that Roger has to try to be like Rafa. He can't. His only option is to play his own game, which he can execute too inconsistently.

My point is that it doesn't matter. Roger simply isn't good enough.

What comes down to is simply that Federer isn't beating Nadal solely from the baseline, but you and I know this.

He'll never be able to beat Nadal solely from the baseline. Nadal has much more consistent groundies. His game is dependent upon this consistency. Roger's is dependent upon timing and taking control of rallies, something he cannot do on clay.

Mansave_75
04-27-2008, 03:47 PM
Congrats Rafa!!! The winner of Monte Carlo has a great percentage of winning too Roland Garros.
Deserved win for Rafa.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:48 PM
I am not a fan of Djoko. I think he is a quitter and a cheater. Having said that, you can't deny the fact that he has game. Roger has been really frustrating against Rafa. I believe every one of those 8 matches he went in claiming to having a chance. But he loses every time. Also, I never said Djoko will actually beat Rafa, but he will have the best chance and I stand behind it. Now if he goes and quits after the 1st game, then we won't be surprised, would we? But you can't honestly claim that Djoko has absolutely no chance of beating Nadal this year unless they play at least once. Roger? No. He ain't gonna beat Rafa and he showed it today. If you can't win a 4-0 set, then you can't win at all. You say it's Nalbanidan, I say it's Djokovic, but until they play you can't be that sure, can you? Stop being so freaking in love with Nadal man. At least remove that Spanish Flag of yours so it's not that obvious.

Dude, neither of them will be beating Nadal, i'm just saying that Nalbandian actually has a shot. Djokovic has none

I am willing to entertain a bet. I know there is a 90% chance that Djoko will quit but still I will take that 10%

Let's do it then. Next time Nadal and Djokovic meet. Place a wager, lets go. 100 USD?

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:48 PM
What has Nalbandian achieved in his career to show that he is not an underachiever. Nalbandian's BH is very good no doubt. He is a wonderful ball striker no doubt. But you are telling me that he can beat Nadal on clay? It's like saying that Blake can beat Nadal on clay because he used to beat him (OK that's not the case anymore but you could've said it last year). I know all about the match-ups. If I am ignorant, educate me please: Nadal vs. Djokovic, Nadal vs. Nalbandian. How does Nalby fair better than Djoko? Educate me please.

Ales_Alessandra
04-27-2008, 03:48 PM
:woohoo: :woohoo: Well done Rafa!!

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Definitely. Federer will never play "perfect tennis" against Rafa--even in a best-of-three-sets match. He's better off playing smarter tennis, whatever the hell that entails....

No - he can't play any smarter. He's a smart guy already. He's exhausted his bag of tricks.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:49 PM
I don't understand all this useless analysis. Fed can only beat a totally fatigued Nadal on clay. So like I said earlier, even if he beats him in Rome it's meaningless for the French Open. The only 2 tournaments that matter beating Nadal are Monte Carlo and Roland Garros. Nadal has only lost 1 match in his entire career at MC/Rome/RG.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 03:50 PM
No - he can't play any smarter. He's a smart guy already. He's exhausted his bag of tricks.

Exactly, he's headed to 1-13 career mark against Nadal on clay. He better hope that he can continue meeting Nadal on grass/hards to keep his overall H2H within reason.

Sjengster
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
I don't understand all this useless analysis. Fed can only beat a totally fatigued Nadal on clay. So like I said earlier, even if he beats him in Rome it's meaningless for the French Open. The only 2 tournaments that matter beating Nadal are Monte Carlo and Roland Garros. Nadal has only lost 1 match in his entire career at MC/Rome/RG.

I don't understand the point of you, but still you go on, so what can you do, eh?

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
Let's make it 50 USD as I said, Djokovic will probably quit but for that 10% chance, I am willing to put 50USD on him. I wouldn't put a dime on Roger however.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
I see your point but I disagree. He doesn't have to paint lines all the time, in fact, I think that it's precisely that idea that causes him to start making so many errors. He goes for too much. He didn't have to win those first 4 games by letting Nadal only a couple of points. It's not neccessary. What is better is to win a game from 40-40, not self-destruct and lose it as he usually does (granted, not just him but everyone, when they play against Nadal). So, you don't have to paint lines all the time, just occasionally. It is way more important to be focused and NOT let easy putaways slip away from him, like he did numerous times from being 4-1 up.

Actually I don't think that Roger has to paint the lines all the time either. In the past he tried different things, by actually hitting more up the middle and going through longer rallies with Rafa. That also didn't work.

It takes guts, no more, no less. He has the ability, I'm sure of it, even though it is a horrible matchup for him.

Roger has guts. But he can't completely change his game.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
What has Nalbandian achieved in his career to show that he is not an underachiever. Nalbandian's BH is very good no doubt. He is a wonderful ball striker no doubt. But you are telling me that he can beat Nadal on clay? It's like saying that Blake can beat Nadal on clay because he used to beat him (OK that's not the case anymore but you could've said it last year). I know all about the match-ups. If I am ignorant, educate me please: Nadal vs. Djokovic, Nadal vs. Nalbandian. How does Nalby fair better than Djoko? Educate me please.

Because Nalbandian is a better player on clay than Djokovic and actually has the balls to finish off a match and not retire.

Nalbandian at his best can beat Nadal. Djokovic at his best can maybe take a set if he's lucky

Nidhogg
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
The usual. As much as I admire Nadal for his mental toughness, I just can't enjoy the boring monotone simplicity of his way of neutralizing Federer. Can't he go whip some cream with that forehand of his, instead of peppering Fed's backhand on and on and on? The rivalry between them is great, but I've never been too fond of the way their matches usually look.
Oh well, a good week for both players, and everything is right in the jungle again.

dj_mercury
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
Fed also lost because of the mono.
Are you trying to win the idiotic poster of the year award: if yes, you won my vote with this last pearl.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/search.php?searchid=1133675&pp=25 Over 40 post in one day with actually none of them having any kind of sense, congrats.

Action Jackson
04-27-2008, 03:54 PM
I think that we agree that the feeling was that Roger wasn't going to win the match. I agree on that.

Pretty hard not to, in this case.

Yes and this made some sense, but in order to execute Roger knew that he had to play impeccably. It was too much to ask.

Well he did it for 4 games, but it's very hard to keep that level up, even for Federer.

I think that about 10% of the time Roger can execute the tactics and win a best-of-three match against Nadal.

He has to play like that, but at the same time, once he gets the initiative, he can't let Nadal breathe, especially on clay, you aren't going to get that many chances, so they have to be taken.

No, I didn't exactly say that. I don't think that Roger should beat Nadal at his own game. I said that in order to truly be better than Nadal one has to play a pure clay court game to counter Nadal's clay court game. Roger, in my opinion, cannot do this. I do not, by any means, think that Roger has to try to be like Rafa. He can't. His only option is to play his own game, which he can execute too inconsistently.

It depends on the player of course, there are certain things that Federer can do well, that the others can't and be effective on clay, but deep down does he really believe he can do it on a consistent basis.

He'll never be able to beat Nadal solely from the baseline. Nadal has much more consistent groundies. His game is dependent upon this consistency. Roger's is dependent upon timing and taking control of rallies, something he cannot do on clay.

Perfect example, who kept pretty much the same level in this match, hence we know why the result was the way it was.

Fed did well to get 10 games.

peterparker
04-27-2008, 03:55 PM
All guys are nervous and all go through ups and downs over the course of a match. You cannot say that nerves were the problem for Roger.

The great fallacy that many are making here is in assuming that the Roger who went up 4-0 on Nadal in the second set was the 'normal' Roger. No - that was Roger playing out of his mind. And by playing this well he essentially exhausted himself. Playing on clay is about spreading oneself out over the whole match - it's about consistency, fight and brawn. It's not about playing 'perfect tennis', because this only lasts a limited time.



Well, ya. And he can't even beat Federer on this stuff.

Yes, how can you just take the highs and not expect the lows? Even the sets that Federer won from Nadal in their FO semi and their last final, he was playing at an extremely high level! Very hard to replicate play at that level on clay for any length of time.

Parker

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 03:58 PM
I still don't see how you claim Nalbandian is a better player than Djokovic on clay. Both are former semi-finalists. Both lost. Djoko actually played half decent against Nadal 3 years ago when retired. You are just saying that because Nalbandian wiped the floor with Nadal on HCs. But so did Federer. Remember? Nalbandian's serve will not trouble Nadal on clay. Given, Djoko's serve will not either but it's better than Nalbandian's. Forehand? Edge to Djoko. Backhand? Edge to Nalby. Movement? Djoko. Intangibles? Djoko cause he is arrogant and doesn't respect Nadal at all.

peterparker
04-27-2008, 03:58 PM
One possibly useless but interesting piece of trivia: their 15th meeting, and the first time that Nadal has ever started the match serving. That did play a factor in the end, as when he made comebacks in both sets he was in front again and therefore put that little bit more pressure on Federer to hold. Still an abysmal collapse in the last game though, it was as if he didn't want to get to the tiebreak.

Interesting, I read somewhere that he usually likes to start of the match returning serve. I wonder if he won the toss in their last wimbledon?

Parker

GugaF1
04-27-2008, 03:58 PM
Dude, neither of them will be beating Nadal, i'm just saying that Nalbandian actually has a shot. Djokovic has none



Let's do it then. Next time Nadal and Djokovic meet. Place a wager, lets go. 100 USD?


It seems to me you don't like Djokovic Personally and that is clouding your Judgment. You can't base on last year's performance to tell how Djokovic is going to fair with Nadal today. Last year at the same time he was barely a top 10 player, in a total different situation. Today he is a top 3 player who is a factor in every major tournament he enters and is much more eficient then before. He has proven several times, that he has the game to beat Nadal not only by out hitting him but, being patient and hanging with Nadal on Rallies and waiting for the best momment. He is not like other players such as Blake, who depend on everything going in, in order to beat Nadal.

I don't know If Djokovic will beat Nadal on clay this year or not but, his shot is as good as any. You can't base on yesterday's performance with Federer to tell how is Djokovics current game on clay. To say he absolutely won't win it..is just ignorant and rushed..

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
Yes, how can you just take the highs and not expect the lows? Even the sets that Federer won from Nadal in their FO semi and their last final, he was playing at an extremely high level! Very hard to replicate play at that level on clay for any length of time.

Parker

I think the problem is that the highs are too high and the lows are too low.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:00 PM
It seems to me you don't like Djokovic Personally and that is clouding your Judgment. You can't base on last year's performance to tell how Djokovic is going to fair with Nadal today. Last year at the same time he was barely a top 10 player, in a total different situation. Today he is a top 3 player who is a factor in every major tournament he enters and is much more eficient then before. He has proven several times, that he has the game to beat Nadal not only by out hitting him but, being patient and hanging with Nadal on Rallies and waiting for the best momment. He is not like other players such as Blake, who depend on everything going in, in order to beat Nadal.

I don't know If Djokovic will beat Nadal on clay this year or not but, his shot is as good as any. You can't base on yesterday's performance with Federer to tell how is Djokovics current game on clay. To say he absolutely won't win it..is just ignorant and rushed..

I'll place a bet with you too

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm hoping to win 2008 ACC. Might as well try to win something...

Apemant
04-27-2008, 04:01 PM
Roger has guts. But he can't completely change his game.

How do you mean? It's not that he needs so much change. He's already closer to beat him than anyone else. In the past he had match points, won sets against him and pushed him in sets he lost. Why do you think he needs something extra special to go from *4-3 to 6-4 or from *4-1 to 6-4, instead of losing such sets? It's not that Nadal himself can walk on water or such.

FedFan_2007
04-27-2008, 04:01 PM
Well, next time they meet and if Fed races out to a double-break lead I'm immediately assuming Nadal will win the set. That's the default position. It aint over until he actually wins the set point.

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 04:02 PM
It's funny how people write Djoko off because he is a jerk. I don't like him any better than you do but the guys has PROVED himself. Nalbandian doesn't have a slam after what 10 years of playing? Djoko's career is already better than Nalbandian. That shows to me that he is not scared to go and get what he thinks is his. We are talking about the No. 3 player in the world so I can't see how you say he can't beat Nadal. Why not? Because he quit? That's not a good argument as there has been numerous times that he hasn't quit. He won't quit if he is winning. Believe me.

HarryMan
04-27-2008, 04:03 PM
I'm hoping to win 2008 ACC. Might as well try to win something...

Please don't choke in the final :devil:

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:05 PM
It's funny how people write Djoko off because he is a jerk. I don't like him any better than you do but the guys has PROVED himself. Nalbandian doesn't have a slam after what 10 years of playing? Djoko's career is already better than Nalbandian. That shows to me that he is not scared to go and get what he thinks is his. We are talking about the No. 3 player in the world so I can't see how you say he can't beat Nadal. Why not? Because he quit? That's not a good argument as there has been numerous times that he hasn't quit. He won't quit if he is winning. Believe me.

I'm not saying Djokovic won't beat Nadal because he's an asshole, i'm saying he wont beat Nadal because he is simply not good enough. He will not be able to stay with him, Nadal will grind him into submission, and Djokovic won't be able to pull off the win, its not that difficult.

Bobby
04-27-2008, 04:05 PM
It's funny how people write Djoko off because he is a jerk. I don't like him any better than you do but the guys has PROVED himself. Nalbandian doesn't have a slam after what 10 years of playing? Djoko's career is already better than Nalbandian. That shows to me that he is not scared to go and get what he thinks is his. We are talking about the No. 3 player in the world so I can't see how you say he can't beat Nadal. Why not? Because he quit? That's not a good argument as there has been numerous times that he hasn't quit. He won't quit if he is winning. Believe me.

I think that is something we can all agree on...

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 04:05 PM
How do you mean? It's not that he needs so much change. He's already closer to beat him than anyone else. In the past he had match points, won sets against him and pushed him in sets he lost. Why do you think he needs something extra special to go from *4-3 to 6-4 or from *4-1 to 6-4, instead of losing such sets? It's not that Nadal himself can walk on water or such.

Personally I think he needs a few points to win these sets. And let's remember, Roger did not play a perfect first set. He played well, but he also had his patch of awful. I would say that an exceptional match from Roger would not be one where he plays mind-blowing tennis, but one where he doesn't make easy errors. If he can do that and bring a solid game plan, he has a shot at beating Nadal.

GugaF1
04-27-2008, 04:06 PM
I'll place a bet with you too

Lol ..I woouldn't put my money against Nadal on clay with no one but, if there is a player who has one of the best chances out there is Djokovic.

Sean.J.S.
04-27-2008, 04:07 PM
Rafa. :banana: Too good on clay, as always. :cool:

Roger...had your chances. :o :hug:

Rogieva
04-27-2008, 04:07 PM
Damnit :hysteric:

From 4-0 shoukd have been the set :mad: :fiery:

Anyway, an amazing week, best tournament of the year :D

Adler
04-27-2008, 04:07 PM
Djokovic doesn't have enough variation to defeat Nadal on clay. Clay is not only about power and topspin, many people forget that

nisha
04-27-2008, 04:08 PM
love It

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:08 PM
Lol ..I woouldn't put my money against Nadal on clay with no one but, if there is a player who has one of the best chances out there is Djokovic.

Keep telling yourself that.

When Nadal beats Djokovic 6-3 6-2 in Rome, will you still see it that way?

Corey Feldman
04-27-2008, 04:08 PM
4 Monte Carlo titles in a row? A new record? Nadal can retire happy now.Yes, could he retire tomorrow please? ;)

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 04:09 PM
The way I see it Djokovic has a better shot than Roger. Why? Roger is 1-7 and his backhand will be exposed again and again. Djokovic has not played Rafa enough to have that kind of a record. But the way he killed Rafa on HCs showed me that he has a different attitude this year. He feels he belongs and he wants to be No.1. He may never get there, but he is a dreamer and dreamers have a puncher's chance.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:10 PM
The way I see it Djokovic has a better shot than Roger. Why? Roger is 1-7 and his backhand will be exposed again and again. Djokovic has not played Rafa enough to have that kind of a record. But the way he killed Rafa on HCs showed me that he has a different attitude this year. He feels he belongs and he wants to be No.1. He may never get there, but he is a dreamer and dreamers have a puncher's chance.

So do you think Youzhny, Tsonga, Roddick, and Davydenko also have shots against Nadal on clay based on their HC wins?

Adler
04-27-2008, 04:10 PM
he has a different attitude this year.
Yeah, like retiring with no reason

GugaF1
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
Keep telling yourself that.

When Nadal beats Djokovic 6-3 6-2 in Rome, will you still see it that way?


Alright man, we will get back on that. I just hope you don't hide it lol.. See, I am not saying that Djokovic is a favourite against Nadal on Clay no way but, to say he has 0 chances, is Bull...

Toko
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
The way I see it Djokovic has a better shot than Roger. Why? Roger is 1-7 and his backhand will be exposed again and again. Djokovic has not played Rafa enough to have that kind of a record. But the way he killed Rafa on HCs showed me that he has a different attitude this year. He feels he belongs and he wants to be No.1. He may never get there, but he is a dreamer and dreamers have a puncher's chance.

Get over yourself. Djok couldn't beat fed on clay, chickened out and quit. And here you are telling me he can beat nadal?

Hey, I gt some real-estate for sale on the moon, you interested?

Apemant
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
From 4-0 shoukd have been the set :mad: :fiery:

Well, if he took that set but then (most likely) faltered in the third, perhaps it would be even harder to take. ;)

Then it would be, why o why couldn't you repeat what you did in the 2nd? Etc.

gnaz
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
Well done, Rafito :cool::cool::cool::cool:

MatchFederer
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
The way I see it Djokovic has a better shot than Roger. Why? Roger is 1-7 and his backhand will be exposed again and again. Djokovic has not played Rafa enough to have that kind of a record. But the way he killed Rafa on HCs showed me that he has a different attitude this year. He feels he belongs and he wants to be No.1. He may never get there, but he is a dreamer and dreamers have a puncher's chance.

Whether or not you are trolling as Blaze seems to believe you are, I think you have raised a couple of interesting points. Namely that Djokovic is a different player this year and the Nadal vs Djokovic rivalry is in its infancy (hopefully). Also if I may add, Djokovic like Rafa can be very solid and consistent over long stretches of time. I hope that we will get to witness a match between the two before the clay court season is over.

venusfan
04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
I just knew my Rafa wouldn't give up after being down 0-4 in that second set. Actually, to me this match was never in doubt eventhough Rafa was losing so badly in the 2nd set. It's just classic to see federer lose.

Adler
04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Consistency will only make Nole more tired, he needs more variety in his game

MatchFederer
04-27-2008, 04:15 PM
My rafa.... ffs.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 04:15 PM
How do you mean? It's not that he needs so much change. He's already closer to beat him than anyone else. In the past he had match points, won sets against him and pushed him in sets he lost. Why do you think he needs something extra special to go from *4-3 to 6-4 or from *4-1 to 6-4, instead of losing such sets? It's not that Nadal himself can walk on water or such.

As I've said already I think that Roger can beat Nadal 10% of the time or so in a best-of-three match.

dylan24
04-27-2008, 04:15 PM
glad i was sleeping instead of watching this shit

prima donna
04-27-2008, 04:16 PM
Keep telling yourself that.

When Nadal beats Djokovic 6-3 6-2 in Rome, will you still see it that way?
For once, your argument is based on concrete factual evidence; it's been proven time and time again, results from other surfaces is to be discarded when facing Nadal on his beloved clay.

rofe
04-27-2008, 04:16 PM
By the way, fantastic achievement for Nadal to take MC four times in a row. :clap2:

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:17 PM
For once, your argument is based on concrete factual evidence; it's been proven time and time again, results from other surfaces is to be discarded when facing Nadal on his beloved clay.

Your approval of my argument is the utmost honor.

adee-gee
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
Great to see Rafito lift a title again :D

Certainly not the greatest match either of them have played. Nadal looked good when he was in charge of rallies, he was relentless in pushing Federer back into his backhand corner, much like a boxer. Federer played a couple of great games at the start of the 2nd and then fell apart somewhat, not necessarily a choke but just a lack of concentration I think.

Congrats Rafa, hopefully the first of several on clay :yeah:

Apemant
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
So do you think Youzhny, Tsonga, Roddick, and Davydenko also have shots against Nadal on clay based on their HC wins?

You have a point but overall, I have to disagree. Youzhny, Roddick or Davy didn't improve much in the last year. Joker went from top 10 to #3 (#1 in his mind in fact) and he got to be a slam finalist and then a slam winner. Does wonders for confidence. Sure, Nadal would still be a heavy favourite but it is true that Nadal won't be able to do to him what he does to Roger, i.e. the BH thing. I believe Nole would be happy to trade BH to FH rallies with Nadal, because Nole does have one of the best BH down the line on the tour, exactly what Roger lacks to punish Rafa's merciless exploitation of his BH weakness.

MatchFederer
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
Consistency will only make Nole more tired, he needs more variety in his game

Hmm. I don't think that is is out of the realms of possibility that Djokovic could win a match against Nadal in straights in a best of 3 match if Nadal is a touch below his usual level and Djokovic is playing very well. I really don't give Djokovic that much of a chance against Nadal on clay but I am very intrigued to see what will happen anyway, hopefully during this clay court season. If he is serving well and aggressive on 2nd serves then it could be very interesting.

Also, they play out a lot of very close sets. Sooner or later these sets are going to be split and we will see a match go the distance.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
I would say that an exceptional match from Roger would not be one where he plays mind-blowing tennis, but one where he doesn't make easy errors.

Fallacy.

The reason why Roger is making errors is because he is going for more on his groundstrokes.

He can go for easier, safer shots but that will result in different problems with similar results.

Again, Roger could have played a different game and let Nadal beat him in long rallies. He decided to avoid debilitating rallies and go for more on his shots, hit early, avoid giving in to Nadal's pace. This resulted in more errors because it was hard to execute.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
Whether or not you are trolling as Blaze seems to believe you are, I think you have raised a couple of interesting points. Namely that Djokovic is a different player this year and the Nadal vs Djokovic rivalry is in its infancy (hopefully). Also if I may add, Djokovic like Rafa can be very solid and consistent over long stretches of time. I hope that we will get to witness a match between the two before the clay court season is over.

Djokovic has no shot against Nadal.

Stop kidding yourself.

safinalium
04-27-2008, 04:19 PM
Well done, Rafa. :) I'm really happy for him, great fight and amazing comeback in the second set. I can't wait for Roland Garros, I have the feeling that he'll capture his fourth title there too!

SheepleBuster
04-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Again I am not saying Djoko will be favorite but he wants Rafa's No. 2 place really bad. He will have to challenge and possibly beat Nadal to get to No. 2 and No. 1. Djoko IS a different player this year. He hasnt played much against Nadal and if he is willing to learn. He is a jerk that's for sure. But he doesn't have a chance against Rafa and Roger has? Based on what? Roger is 1-7. Djokovic is 0-3. That may look worse but he still hasn't played Rafa that well and lost. Roger has played some unbelievable matches against Rafa on clay and still has lost, so he is basically mentally done. I think if Roger had Gasquet's backhand he would be more dangerous on clay.

HeiwaDream
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Great result for Nadal!!! 4th Monte Carlo in a row , this is fantastic!!! You are really the best on clay in the history of tennis.

And Federer is back.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
You have a point but overall, I have to disagree. Youzhny, Roddick or Davy didn't improve much in the last year. Joker went from top 10 to #3 (#1 in his mind in fact) and he got to be a slam finalist and then a slam winner. Does wonders for confidence. Sure, Nadal would still be a heavy favourite but it is true that Nadal won't be able to do to him what he does to Roger, i.e. the BH thing. I believe Nole would be happy to trade BH to FH rallies with Nadal, because Nole does have one of the best BH down the line on the tour, exactly what Roger lacks to punish Rafa's merciless exploitation of his BH weakness.

Nadal's high forehand to the Djokovic backhand will not be as much of a problem as it is to Roger, but I don't see how Djokovic can win. He will play a hardcourt game on clay and try to hit through Nadal, something that won't work.

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Alright man, we will get back on that. I just hope you don't hide it lol.. See, I am not saying that Djokovic is a favourite against Nadal on Clay no way but, to say he has 0 chances, is Bull...

Ok fine, Nole has a .00001% chance of winning if he is at his best and Nadal is dead tired in Hamburg.

MatchFederer
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Djokovic has no shot against Nadal.

Stop kidding yourself.

Well I think he has a small shot. If he is very consistent and his serve is firing then it could be close.

I rate his chances at less than 1 in 7 though.

CyBorg
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Djokovic has no shot against Nadal.

Stop kidding yourself.

Djokovic at his best is a tough cookie who does well in long rally exchanges. He's very stubborn.

I think that he can give Nadal more of a challenge than Federer because some of these character and physical traits.

But this doesn't mean that he'll beat Nadal. There's no evidence that he will.

guga2120
04-27-2008, 04:22 PM
Congrats to Rafa, 4 in a row.:hatoff: Actually neither one played their best, but Rafa as usual is just too solid for Roger on clay.

SwiSha
04-27-2008, 04:22 PM
congrats Nadal

would have loved a 3rd set between him and Ferrer though

Johnny Groove
04-27-2008, 04:24 PM
Well I think he has a small shot. If he is very consistent and his serve is firing then it could be close.

I rate his chances at less than 1 in 7 though.

Its whatever.

We can argue all we want, the proof is in the pudding. Nadal is 7-0 in sets vs. Djokovic, 3-0 overall on clay, including the standard Djokovic retirement.

True, Djokovic has improved since last year, but not on clay, and not against Nadal.

Apemant
04-27-2008, 04:24 PM
Again, Roger could have played a different game and let Nadal beat him in long rallies. He decided to avoid debilitating rallies and go for more on his shots, hit early, avoid giving in to Nadal's pace. This resulted in more errors because it was hard to execute.

I have a slight feeling you just ignore what I said several times... it was NOT just about hard-to-execute shots. It was about making errors out of easy putaways; he's at the net, Nadal just gave him a very short ball and is far out of the court. He has like 10 different ways to kill the ball, but he nets it. And then he does the same thing on the next point. Thus practically giving a break back to Nadal, after he won them doing all the hard work.

He doesn't need to do ANYTHING extra special to kill a ball in situations from which he usually does it 90% of the time, now does he? Just a little more concentration and self-belief. You make it sound like it's physically impossible, while I myself believe it's primarily a mental hurdle.

jonny84
04-27-2008, 04:25 PM
:yeah: Nadal.

Still Roger put up a fight, but Nadal still shows why he is the King of the Claycourts and will totally dominate the claycourt season.