****You've got a crappy draw but now would be a great time to win MC 08**** [Archive] - Page 5 - MensTennisForums.com

****You've got a crappy draw but now would be a great time to win MC 08****

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Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Silly mistakes are creeping in, his first serve is the barometer for success, had that been good, he would have won the first set.He served reasonably well under the circumstances, but you can't win 3/14 on 2nd serve and hope to win the set :shrug:

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:13 PM
great net play

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:14 PM
He served reasonably well under the circumstances, but you can't win 3/14 on 2nd serve and hope to win the set :shrug:

yeah he only won 25% in the first set

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Stop teasing us Rogi :lol:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Roger held serve 2-0*

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
2-0

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
0-30 c'mon

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
vamos roger break break :bounce:

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
0-40

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:17 PM
omgggggggggg

3 bp

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
3-000000000000000000

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:18 PM
yeahhhh
thats the way Roger, now keep controling the set

:bounce:

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 03:19 PM
It's not over guys. Come on! 3-0 Rog to serve.

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:19 PM
Unbelievable :D

He's got to win this set now :unsure:

lunahielo
04-27-2008, 03:19 PM
:bounce: :bounce: Hold on to the set!!
Allez

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
Yeah!!!

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:20 PM
15-0
:)

soraya
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
Good job so far.

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:21 PM
30-0

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:22 PM
40-0

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:22 PM
4-0

holagirl56
04-27-2008, 03:22 PM
:hearts:

feuselino
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
Time to start up the backery?!??!?! Go Fed!! ;)

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:23 PM
:ignore:

But it needs to get to 5-0 before I actually believe he will take the set.

COME ON ROGI!!!

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Roger got 5 aces so far. :)

neenah
04-27-2008, 03:25 PM
I left to get ready to go out at the end of the last set and I came back to 4-0 :rolls: :yeah:

Comparing to any other player in the draw he's done very well :shrug:

I meant against Rafa ;) Looks like he's using his plan now!

Edit: oh wait, did you mean against Rafa too? Fair point then :)

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
Roger *4-1

neenah
04-27-2008, 03:27 PM
Okay I'm off, GOOD LUCK ROGER :)

I wish I could watch this Fedal final :awww:

:wavey:

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Pls hold serve Rogi...

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Okay I'm off, GOOD LUCK ROGER :)

I wish I could watch this Fedal final :awww:

:wavey:

:smooch:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Change of momentum :unsure:

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Here we go again :lol: :tape:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
30-30

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Here we go again :lol: :tape::o

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
bp for pig

soraya
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
donated one of the breaks

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
no a break

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Typical match on clay between these two...

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:31 PM
4-2*

ouch

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
he does not treasure the BP at all....Roger, C'mon!! you hv to win this!!!

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
20 games played - 8 breaks of serve :o

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
roger :smash:

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:33 PM
:haha: I don't think I'll even be surprise if somehow he manages to lose this at 4-6 :lol: :o

Pls just get a set Rogi!

For those who're watching, how's he playing?

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:33 PM
*4-3
come on roger hold serve please...

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:33 PM
What happen??

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:33 PM
:haha: I'm don't think I'll even be surprise if somehow he manages to lose this at 4-6 :lol: :oJust considered the option and it doesn't look that far-fetched to me :lol:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:34 PM
Roger needs to focus please.

come on Roger! :bounce:

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
I leave my seat and it's suddenly 4-3 :o
Hold on there, Roger!

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
0-30

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Can anyone tell me why he lost so much pts?

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
:haha: I don't think I'll even be surprise if somehow he manages to lose this at 4-6 :lol: :o

Pls just get a set Rogi!

For those who're watching, how's he playing?

:o Please no...:banghead:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Nice :tape:

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
0-40

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:36 PM
0-30
nooooooooo

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I m sick of this.............................................. .

tim1987
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
That is ridiculous, how can he give it away that tamely?

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
4 all

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
OMG :rolleyes:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
what the f....!!!

Roger:smash: wake up u idiot

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
TFA is on a roll - 10 points in a row now :lol:

prima donna
04-27-2008, 03:38 PM
How funny.

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:38 PM
lost focus

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:38 PM
sick of he doesn't treasure any of his hard-earned BP...

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:39 PM
Just considered the option and it doesn't look that far-fetched to me :lol:

Right on it's way!!! :bowdown::bigcry::banghead:

Pls prove us wrong again Rogi...all I ask for now is just a set :sad:

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:39 PM
16 ufs in the second

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
Beyond pathetic

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
and now he is serving to stay in the match

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 03:42 PM
Rafa has won five straight games.

Head, meet desk.

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:42 PM
he just himself to blame

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:42 PM
When was the last time he was up a double break and lost the set?

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
Why not just hand all the clay titles to Nadal and we can all move on...:o:p

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:46 PM
Why not just hand all the clay titles to Nadal and we can all move on...:o:p

:lol:

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:47 PM
He finally held.

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:47 PM
5 all

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:50 PM
:yippee: :woohoo:

at least not 4-6! :p

I feel bad making fun of this as I can only imagine Rogi must be trying so hard out there...:hug:...I hope he is coz I have no idea what's going on out there!

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:50 PM
it is the same scenario ( nadal will win 7-5 )
roger plz focus moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
Roger serving *5-6

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
Please roger hold serve

:clap2: :clap2:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
15-0

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Easy hold for Nadal...I think the match is just 5 mins away from finishing now :bigcry:

Rogi :hug:

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
15 all

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
15-30

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Hopefully he can take it into a breaker.

This match has broken their latest pattern in matches in that there are a lot of breaks secured.

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
15-30 nooooooo

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
You people are too harsh on him, it's not like he's playing RRH again, it is the best clay courter ever he's up against and he's given him a lot to think about today.

This is more than I could have hoped for last Sunday.

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
What a crappy way to end a great week.

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
30 all

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
30 all

lsy
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
Just bring it to TB Rogi!

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
we should be satisfied with this weak result

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:53 PM
deuce

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:54 PM
40-30

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:55 PM
adv roger

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:55 PM
match point

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:55 PM
it is overrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:55 PM
match pt

Marek.
04-27-2008, 03:56 PM
You people are too harsh on him, it's not like he's playing RRH again, it is the best clay courter ever he's up against and he's given him a lot to think about today.

This is more than I could have hoped for last Sunday.

True but the fact that he was up 4-0 makes it hurt badly.

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:56 PM
over now Roger lost

pathetic in the second set... all the break he had and let them go so easily...

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 03:56 PM
C'mon roger...

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 03:56 PM
And there it ends...

tim1987
04-27-2008, 03:57 PM
Same old story, too many errors.

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:57 PM
What a match....he lost....n i hate to say this, i hate what he is today...

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 03:57 PM
Pathetic...

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
bad choices of Federer cost him the match

Daniel
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
It was a good week, he reached the finals again , but to lose it this way :o :o is not on

Good luck next tournament Roger :hug: :kiss:

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
He had a real chance to today, but seeing where he was at the beginning of the week, this is not at all that bad.

Art&Soul
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
:mad::mad: idiot ROGER :mad::mad:

didadida
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
44 ufs

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:00 PM
but he played way better than the last year

rofe
04-27-2008, 04:00 PM
Nothing much that Nadal had to do in the 2nd set. Disappointing. Fed did not have the belief to close the 2nd set.

I would feel a lot better if he had lost in 3.

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:01 PM
HAte it, hate it!!!!

refero*fervens
04-27-2008, 04:01 PM
Roger :hug:
Everyone :hug:

Best you can say is that, at least he made the final and tried to put up a good fight, achieved a very respectable scoreline. It is definitely the 4-0 that hurts. But he's defended his points, showed some great tennis along the way, and it's not bad for being two points away from losing in the first round.

At least it looks like the ATP is gaining some semblance of normality when Roger makes clay finals and...well, and when Rafa wins them :shrug: :p It doesn't sound like Roger was playing all that well from the sounds of things but again, Rafa on clay, too good.

lsy
04-27-2008, 04:02 PM
Just abt right 5 mins...:o

Headcase losing the set from 4-0 up...he needs to reflect on that but then vs Nadal on clay it's not like we don't expect that :o

Just take the positives out of this great week :hug:

Still a great tournament :yippee:

Art&Soul
04-27-2008, 04:03 PM
He lost himself in the second set gruuuuuuuu

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:04 PM
I better be neutral towards all Roger's game, maybe not gonna watch his match for the mean time, can't stand the dissppointment that he produced in 2008........ sad sad n tired...

lsy
04-27-2008, 04:05 PM
i rather he lost yesterday...

NO WAY!!!

You'd gotto be kidding

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:08 PM
NO WAY!!!

You'd gotto be kidding

No way would anyone want to have lost to the Djerk.

holagirl56
04-27-2008, 04:09 PM
NO WAY!!!

You'd gotto be kidding

I agree. I'd much rather Roger lose to one of the greatest clay courters of all time in the final than a walking ego in the sf.

Tough one to lose especially when he had so many chances. Still, this tournament gave Feds some needed confidence and hopefully Jose will have more of an idea of where he's at?

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
Cos' it means nothing at all for a no.1 player to juz defend the pt without winning any big tournament....

GonzoFed
04-27-2008, 04:12 PM
I better be neutral towards all Roger's game, maybe not gonna watch his match for the mean time, can't stand the dissppointment that he produced in 2008........ sad sad n tired...

what a pathetic post.

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
If we go back to Fish's match, it's a great progress.

The same old problems vs Nadal on clay: not enough belief, and inablity to sustain the high level for a prolonged period of time. Being great in patches is not going to work here. Plus, I thought he looked tired in the 2nd set.

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Nothing much that Nadal had to do in the 2nd set. Disappointing. Fed did not have the belief to close the 2nd set.

I would feel a lot better if he had lost in 3.

I would also rather he lost in three, but a loss is a loss. He takes some positives from this match I feel. Spotty play cost him badly in the second. He's just got to play more out of his comfort zone than Nadal his. It's risky stuff, and if he loses he loses, at this point I'm happy if he loses swinging. And let's face it, at the start of this tournament, I think most of us would have taken this result in a heartbeat.

lsy
04-27-2008, 04:14 PM
No way would anyone want to have lost to the Djerk.


I'd much rather Roger lose to one of the greatest clay courters of all time in the final than a walking ego in the sf.

Exactly.

nobama
04-27-2008, 04:15 PM
Higueras can't do anything to solve the problem between Roger's ears. Seems like Roger ran out of gas at the end. I'm glad he was at least able to make the finals and as the week went on start playing better. I have a good feeling he might be able to gain some points in Rome. For me this season is most about Roger keeping his #1 ranking as long as he can.

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:16 PM
The match was very irritating, but it was definitely a change from what they have been producing on clay lately.

The first match they played on clay in 2005 was a break-a-thon. There were 15 breaks. Then the next time there were 11 and then down to 7. Last year in MC, there were only 2 breaks, and Fed didn't break at all. Players held pretty comfortably in last year's RG final as well after the 1st set.

Today went back to 2005. At least Fed wasn't dominated off of Nadal's first serve. He took a lot of chances, had a lot of chances, but didn't deliver. 4-3 up a break in the first, 4-0 up in the 2nd, 2 game points to take it to a TB'er...

The situation was perfect for a Fed victory:

-He had just beaten two guys who had beaten him 4 times in all in the past 1/2 year

-He was hitting the FH well
-He was the decisive underdog and was playing the role well so far; he had nothing to lose really
-He was playing with "house money" after coming back from the dead against Hidalgo
-He had won a bunch of matches against Nadal coming in to this one.

I really think Fed was confident about this one, but he just didn't execute.

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:17 PM
i think Roger doesnt have the belief in himself that he can beat Nadal

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:17 PM
what a pathetic post.

U misunderstand what i post, i mean i feel tired recently cos' i want Roger to win something big to prove he is the well-deserved no.1. If only defends points, then means nothing at all cos' the youngsters are chasing after him......

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
i think Roger doesnt have the belief in himself that he can beat Nadal

Agree......

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:20 PM
but he had a plenty of chances to beat him today,but i guess this was the best clay tournament Fed have played
i have a very high hope that he can beat him soon

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:20 PM
i think Roger doesnt have the belief in himself that he can beat Nadal

Maybe, maybe not. I think it comes from the fact that he knows he must to everything just right or he will lose. He knows he must win 2 out of the first 3 points in his service games or else for sure have to play long deuce games, he has to get depth on the BH, he has to hit winners with the FH, and so on.

nobama
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
U misunderstand what i post, i mean i feel tired recently cos' i want Roger to win something big to prove he is the well-deserved no.1. If only defends points, then means nothing at all cos' the youngsters are chasing after him......
Yes but at some point defending points will = winning. The latter half of the year Roger has a lot of titles to defend. Right now just be glad he's doing what he can to keep #1.

Fergie
04-27-2008, 04:21 PM
I still can't believe what happened in the 2nd set :sobbing:

Roger :hug:

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:23 PM
but he had a plenty of chances to beat him today,but i guess this was the best clay tournament Fed have played
i have a very high hope that he can beat him soon

Right, which is better than last year when he had no chance to beat him at all here.

nobama
04-27-2008, 04:23 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I think it comes from the fact that he knows he must to everything just right or he will lose. He knows he must win 2 out of the first 3 points in his service games or else for sure have to play long deuce games, he has to get depth on the BH, he has to hit winners with the FH, and so on.Seems to me that Nadal can have these lapses which lulls a player into thinking their back in the match or have a shot and all of a sudden like flipping on a switch he's playing amazing, making no errors and a 4-0 lead is erased in a matter of minutes. In both the 1st and 2nd sets Nadal started out with more errors than Roger. But the minute Roger lapsed he tightened up his game and it was over.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Despite that the whole tournament is a success to Roger, this final is a disappointment to me, again. I REALLY think Roger can do it. The problem lies more in his head than in the match-up/techniques now how I see it. In the first couple of their matches, I saw that Roger's bh is a huge disadvantage in the match-up but now it actually holds decently for him to last through a match I think. It's not the aspect that broke down in the end...Roger had to laugh out of frustration himself after one stupid shot selection in the last game, which cost him the whole match, and which showed exactly what happened on court today. CAN YOU NOT GET BROKEN IN THE END OF EACH SET AGAINST NADAL NEXT TIME.....No difference at all, every time.

Ok enough for the final. I'm really disappointed.

Of course, there are a lot of positive things I will take from this tournament, with the most important thing that his health seems to be back to a good level, his movement is great, and his confidence should be back as well. With no expectation before MC and now to see him in the final, I'm still a proud fan, but not necessarily happy after seeing how the final went.

Move on...

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:26 PM
Weird.... for the pass few years, we never worry about his 1st or 2nd round match, but nowadays, 2nd match is a threatening one... And it's kinda weird that he feel relieve for just defending points...

However, i will always support Roger. Rogi, Good Luck in the upcoming tournament...Try to prove ur great play to your fans....C'mon!!!

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:26 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I think it comes from the fact that he knows he must to everything just right or he will lose. He knows he must win 2 out of the first 3 points in his service games or else for sure have to play long deuce games, he has to get depth on the BH, he has to hit winners with the FH, and so on.

i think he should come more to the net,and he hit a very very good CC angles winners
and Nadal was not that confident so Roger should took the advantage of it

^Sue^
04-27-2008, 04:29 PM
Agree, he should attack more....but it's over now...

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:31 PM
Seems to me that Nadal can have these lapses which lulls a player into thinking their back in the match or have a shot and all of a sudden like flipping on a switch he's playing amazing, making no errors and a 4-0 lead is erased in a matter of minutes. In both the 1st and 2nd sets Nadal started out with more errors than Roger. But the minute Roger lapsed he tightened up his game and it was over.

This is indeed the the case with Nadal on clay. The problem is that the opposing player can feel when Nadal tightens his game and there are NO easy points. Nadal starts hitting the FH with more authority, wins some points that grind you down, and you get tired and frustrated. A player with a bigger serve could avoid this by getting easy points, but there isn't anyone with a big serve who can also play on clay well enough to threaten Nadal other than Almagro and maybe Berdych.

RogerFan82
04-27-2008, 04:31 PM
Roger, keep plugging away against Nadal. Never give up. I like his new CC Forehand with lots of spin. Hopefully higueras helps him more with his strategies and it can all come together in RG.

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:32 PM
i think he should come more to the net,and he hit a very very good CC angles winners
and Nadal was not that confident so Roger should took the advantage of it

It's hard when you're in your BH corner all day, but for next time, he should take his chances and see what Nadal comes up with. This strategy has not worked so why not try something else? I think he did try to play differently this time around, but lost it mentally after Nadal broke him back in the 1st at 4-3 and then when Nadal broke him for the 2nd time in the 2nd at 4-3.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 04:34 PM
The match was very irritating
Thanks for backing me up. I probably shouldn't blame Roger for anything in this tournament, but I have to say I'm very irritated and disappointed now. He really can do it...

nobama
04-27-2008, 04:35 PM
Despite that the whole tournament is a success to Roger, this final is a disappointment to me, again. I REALLY think Roger can do it. The problem lies more in his head than in the match-up/techniques now how I see it. In the first couple of their matches, I saw that Roger's bh is a huge disadvantage in the match-up but now it actually holds decently for him to last through a match I think. It's not the aspect that broke down in the end...Roger had to laugh out of frustration himself after one stupid shot selection in the last game, which cost him the whole match, and which showed exactly what happened on court today. CAN YOU NOT GET BROKEN IN THE END OF EACH SET AGAINST NADAL NEXT TIME.....No difference at all, every time.

Ok enough for the final. I'm really disappointed.

Of course, there are a lot of positive things I will take from this tournament, with the most important thing that his health seems to be back to a good level, his movement is great, and his confidence should be back as well. With no expectation before MC and now to see him in the final, I'm still a proud fan, but not necessarily happy after seeing how the final went.

Move on...I think this post is interesting, and you're probably not alone in your feelings. Interesting I say because I was someone who was giving Roger a half chance today yet I'm not really upset by this loss. So far those I've seen (at rf.com and elsewhere) who are most upset about it are one who never really thought he had a shot, predicted an easy win for Nadal.

Yeah it sucks that he was ahead in both sets and couldn't get the job done. But that's somthing we see time and time again with Nadal on clay....happened to Ferrer in the QF match. At least Roger is getting these opportunities. Hopefully he'll get another chance to crack the nut in Rome.

Rommella
04-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Was scoreboard watching the whole time as I couldn't get Betfair. Sigh, at 4-0 up, I took my dinner knowing it would get to a 3rd set. Wrong big-time. This is heart-breaking.

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Thanks for backing me up. I probably shouldn't blame Roger for anything in this tournament, but I have to say I'm very irritated and disappointed now. He really can do it...

I'm not sure that he can play consistently great for 2-3-4 hours. Something less than that is not going to work.

glycina
04-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Very sad. But the score shows that Roger( who has just recovered from his
illness) could get closer to Nadal more than ever. If anyone can beat Nadal on clay,
that will be no doubt Roger. But thinking of the age of Rafa, Roger must
hurry up or wait?

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 04:41 PM
Roger has always been capable of playing brilliantly in patches against Nadal on clay. It's not a coincidence that when the match gets close Nadal has the edge on clay. Roger has to perform exceptionally to beat Nadal and he didn't today (at least not when it really mattered). Some positives:

- I really like the number of returns he ran around and smacked a forehand on.
- Wicked angled forehand he's used all week really hurt Nadal.
- He stuck with the game plan. Yes, even though the drop shots were hideous at times.
- Interesting attack of the Nadal backhand by Roger. Ugly but somewhat effective I thought.
- Strategically MUCH better than last year. If he holds his nerve and executes when the match is tight, he's got a shot.

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:42 PM
It's hard when you're in your BH corner all day, but for next time, he should take his chances and see what Nadal comes up with. This strategy has not worked so why not try something else? I think he did try to play differently this time around, but lost it mentally after Nadal broke him back in the 1st at 4-3 and then when Nadal broke him for the 2nd time in the 2nd at 4-3.

yeah Nadal played more than 80% on Fed bh side ,last year he looked like he was lost in the court

nobama
04-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Thanks for backing me up. I probably shouldn't blame Roger for anything in this tournament, but I have to say I'm very irritated and disappointed now. He really can do it...As I said in an earlier post Nadal can lull you into thinking you've got a shot but unlike most players he can quickly tighen up his game and cut out the errors too (I'm talking clay only). And once he's near 100% there's not much anyone can do. I also think when Roger gets frustrated or loses confidence he starts going back to what he knows and abandons what was working for him.

I constantly see these quotes/articles from former players about what Roger (or anyone else) needs to do to beat Nadal on clay. It's easy to say, but quite honestly I think there are very few former pros who could've taken him down on clay.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 04:43 PM
I'm not sure that he can do it for 2 or 3 hours.
Last year in the same place, and also RG, I felt the same way as you do. But after watching this match, I do think he can...

or at least took it into the 3rd.

rofe
04-27-2008, 04:44 PM
I'm not sure that he can do it for 2 or 3 hours.

Exactly. He played brilliantly to go up 4-0 but then had the inevitable let down. If Higgy can go anything, it is to keep his mental state at a more even keel while varying his play. A tough ask I know.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 04:50 PM
I think this post is interesting, and you're probably not alone in your feelings. Interesting I say because I was someone who was giving Roger a half chance today yet I'm not really upset by this loss. So far those I've seen (at rf.com and elsewhere) who are most upset about it are one who never really thought he had a shot, predicted an easy win for Nadal.
I didn't know what to expect before the match. I gave him a shot after they played several games. He always faked me out when playing Nadal on clay (let's not talk about Hamburg) :shrug:

Upset is not the word for me, if you are referring to me. More disappointed than upset...

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 04:53 PM
Exactly. He played brilliantly to go up 4-0 but then had the inevitable let down. If Higgy can go anything, it is to keep his mental state at a more even keel while varying his play. A tough ask I know.

I thought he played differently after going up 4-0. He was really using the angled CC fh well and mixing it up, but then he went back to his usual tactics and Nadal started grinding him down.

Federer is taking what Higgy gives him and looks like he is willing to change his game up. There were a lot of positives out there today. The last few times other than at Hamburg and the first set at RG, Fed had NO chance on Nadal's serve. His returns on 1st serves were a LOT better and Nadal didn't get too many easy 1st FH's.

didadida
04-27-2008, 04:56 PM
lets see what Higueras will do for Rome

neenah
04-27-2008, 04:57 PM
Bit of a shock there - I left at *4-1 in the second and came back now. At least this is Monte Carlo and not the FO. Think of it this way: the more times he plays Nadal on clay the more he learns. I can only hope that he gained something from this.

I couldn't watch a point of this match so I can't say anything about how he played :shrug:

Time for Rome :rocker2:

yanchr
04-27-2008, 04:58 PM
As I said in an earlier post Nadal can lull you into thinking you've got a shot but unlike most players he can quickly tighen up his game and cut out the errors too (I'm talking clay only). And once he's near 100% there's not much anyone can do. I also think when Roger gets frustrated or loses confidence he starts going back to what he knows and abandons what was working for him.
I know them all. But I mean, Roger has the game. Like you said in the end, when Nadal stepped up, just don't chicken out and fade away like he did today :shrug:

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 05:00 PM
The last few times other than at Hamburg and the first set at RG, Fed had NO chance on Nadal's serve. His returns on 1st serves were a LOT better and Nadal didn't get too many easy 1st FH's.

Also look at his break point conversion rate today. I definitely attribute that at least partially to more aggressive returning, which allowed him to take control of some of those important points.

So, starting the match receiving - good idea or not?

yanchr
04-27-2008, 05:02 PM
So, starting the match receiving - good idea or not?
Is there a difference? He got broken every time to the end of a set, whether serve first or not :shrug:

rofe
04-27-2008, 05:03 PM
I thought he played differently after going up 4-0. He was really using the angled CC fh well and mixing it up, but then he went back to his usual tactics and Nadal started grinding him down.

Federer is taking what Higgy gives him and looks like he is willing to change his game up. There were a lot of positives out there today. The last few times other than at Hamburg and the first set at RG, Fed had NO chance on Nadal's serve. His returns on 1st serves were a LOT better and Nadal didn't get too many easy 1st FH's.

Yes, he did and that was the problem for him. He obvious couldn't sustain the varied play he had until 4-0 (including sharp angle CC FH, BH dropshot, keeping the BH deep down the center to prevent Nadal from exploiting the anlge and volleying judiciously) so he had to get better about focusing on his serve game and make most if not all his 1st serves in his remaining games. That is what I meant by keeping an even mental state.

I just hope he does a thorough postmortem with Higgy and I have a good feeling that he will do better on that than with Roche.

Or Levy
04-27-2008, 05:04 PM
Rogi...

There are no words.

I hope Jose doesn't yell too hard at him (though he would fully deserve it)

Two break choke....

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 05:05 PM
Is there a difference? He got broken every time to the end of a set, whether serve first or not :shrug:

I think he needs to believe in himself and serve first. He always plays better when he serves first. I know he's worried about being broken right away, but he relaxes when's he returning at 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, etc.

rofe
04-27-2008, 05:06 PM
Also look at his break point conversion rate today. I definitely attribute that at least partially to more aggressive returning, which allowed him to take control of some of those important points.

So, starting the match receiving - good idea or not?

That was a very bad idea because you knew that Roger would be under tremendous pressure at 5-4 and 6-5 and buckle against Nadal. If he was hoping to break Nadal and gain the upper hand early, he completely screwed that up as well.

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 05:07 PM
Yes, he did and that was the problem for him. He obvious couldn't sustain the varied play he had until 4-0 (including sharp angle CC FH, BH dropshot, keeping the BH deep down the center to prevent Nadal from exploiting the anlge and volleying judiciously) so he had to get better about focusing on his serve game and make most if not all his 1st serves in his remaining games. That is what I meant by keeping an even mental state.

I just hope he does a thorough postmortem with Higgy and I have a good feeling that he will do better on that than with Roche.

Agree. I think he's putting a lot more stock in what Higgy is giving him compared to Roche.

Rogieva
04-27-2008, 05:09 PM
DAMNIT!!

Well, I never really expected a win in this match, but finding out Rogi was 4-0 up in the second annoys me, a 3rd set should have come !! Anyway, what's done is done. Best tournament of the year for Roger, Nadal beat him 64 64 last year at this same time so I guess it's an improvement :cool: I'm glad from what I've seen in the latter matches, I hope he can plat the same and if not ever more better in Rome !!!

Mechlan
04-27-2008, 05:12 PM
Is there a difference? He got broken every time to the end of a set, whether serve first or not :shrug:

Yes. When he serves first, he always has a shot to break back. On the other hand, the easiest time to break Nadal is the first game of the match. If he can only find it in himself to not get broken back. :smash:

Marek.
04-27-2008, 05:12 PM
The two have only been together for two or three weeks now and Fed has already made great progress. There may be some hope for RG yet.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 05:14 PM
I think he needs to believe in himself and serve first. He always plays better when he serves first. I know he's worried about being broken right away, but he relaxes when's he returning at 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, etc.
I was shocked that he chose to receive and I guess that's part of the "gameplan". Bad move to me as well, cuz we all know that he LOVES to serve first.

But I mean, his mental state against Nadal was really down to the toilet in crucial moments by losing every single set being broken in the end, serve first or not. That's what irritates me.

NYCtennisfan
04-27-2008, 05:18 PM
I was shocked that he chose to receive and I guess that's part of the "gameplan". Bad move to me as well, cuz we all know that he LOVES to serve first.

But I mean, his mental state against Nadal was really down to the toilet in crucial moments by losing every single set being broken in the end, serve first or not. That's what irritates me.

I don't think he'll return serve first again. If it was Higgy's idea, and it most likely is, it's amazing that Fed listened to him because we know that Fed always likes to serve first. Fed's willing to listen to whatever Higgy has if he will listen to returning serve to open the match.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes. When he serves first, he always has a shot to break back. On the other hand, the easiest time to break Nadal is the first game of the match. If he can only find it in himself to not get broken back. :smash:
Did you see the easy overhead (is it?) in the 2nd set 2nd game when he was up 40:0 and then Nadal came back at 40:30? I would think that he almost had to break his arm to hit that one to hold... Another funny yet telling moment for me...:shrug:

nobama
04-27-2008, 05:22 PM
I was shocked that he chose to receive and I guess that's part of the "gameplan". Bad move to me as well, cuz we all know that he LOVES to serve first.

But I mean, his mental state against Nadal was really down to the toilet in crucial moments by losing every single set being broken in the end, serve first or not. That's what irritates me.At least he's trying something different. OK electing to receive didn't work, maybe isn't the right tactic. The next time most likely he won't do it. But I'd rather see him try different things even if he fails. I'd still take today's loss over last year because at least we know he's trying to do something different.

SUKTUEN
04-27-2008, 05:24 PM
Roger, I know you try your best!:hug::hug:
Don't give up!!!
I always love you!!!!:smooch::smooch:

Thankyou my LORD let you find your way~!!!:worship:

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 05:25 PM
But I mean, his mental state against Nadal was really down to the toilet in crucial moments by losing every single set being broken in the end, serve first or not. That's what irritates me.

Nadal can break serve at will on clay. Like NYC said earlier, only someone with a huge serve and a very solid ground game can avoid the fate of being broken back. Fed's serve doesn't make any difference on clay and his ground game is not solid enough. My point is Fed's problems start from the match up problems, they are not coming from his brain.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't think he'll return serve first again. If it was Higgy's idea, and it most likely is, it's amazing that Fed listened to him because we know that Fed always likes to serve first. Fed's willing to listen to whatever Higgy has if he will listen to returning serve to open the match.
I haven't thought of that point. I would say yes, it's big for him to choose not to serve first because sb told him not to (we assume so).

I'm not a technical expert, but I can see the difference in Roger's game between this time and last year, like you said in a previous post. Let's hope Jose keeps on doing the right thing for Roger, and it will yield sometime later...

Marek.
04-27-2008, 05:32 PM
Nadal can break serve at will on clay. Like NYC said earlier, only someone with a huge serve and a very solid ground game can avoid the fate of being broken back. Fed's serve doesn't make any difference on clay and his ground game is not solid enough. My point is Fed's problems start from the match up problems, they are not coming from his brain.

Agreed. He has to basically play a perfect all around match to beat Nadal on clay.

SUKTUEN
04-27-2008, 05:36 PM
and Roger's backhand not good today~~hope he can improve it.

Minnie
04-27-2008, 05:37 PM
Agreed. He has to basically play a perfect all around match to beat Nadal on clay.

But does Fed believe enough in himself to play a perfect all round match against Nadal? That 2nd set told me he does not - and doubt he ever will to be honest.

yanchr
04-27-2008, 05:44 PM
Nadal can break serve at will on clay. Like NYC said earlier, only someone with a huge serve and a very solid ground game can avoid the fate of being broken back. Fed's serve doesn't make any difference on clay and his ground game is not solid enough. My point is Fed's problems start from the match up problems, they are not coming from his brain.
I'm not talking about just being broken back. I fully expected that. I'm talking about him being broken EVERY SINGLE time when the set is about to finish. Like today, in both sets, at 4:5, 5:6 you just EXPECTED him to be broken. And was never wrong :shrug:

The match-up problem is surely still there, but I just think it's not as big an issue as before. Roger has made huge effort to try to make up for the gap and I give him a lot of credit for doing it as well as he can. If it's so clear that it's still the match-up thing, I wouldn't be disappointed at all...I know I could be wrong though since I'm not the player who plays out there, but probably we just have to agree to disagree :shrug:

Rommella
04-27-2008, 05:45 PM
But does Fed believe enough in himself to play a perfect all round match against Nadal? That 2nd set told me he does not - and doubt he ever will to be honest.


As painful as it may be, I agree. But am still hoping it'll come around by RG.

SUKTUEN
04-27-2008, 05:46 PM
may be he have not enough confidence

Herdwick
04-27-2008, 05:47 PM
Commiserations to Roger - so many chances today - this must really hurt. Now if only he can play an entire match against Rafa like the first 4 games of the second set! Not much to ask I suppose...

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 05:52 PM
I'm not talking about just being broken back. I fully expected that. I'm talking about him being broken EVERY SINGLE time when the set is about to finish.

Ask yourself why you expected that? I know that Fed is a mental midget with 12 GS titles and players on the other side of the net don't matter at all, but still...

can play an entire match against Rafa like the first 4 games of the second set!

The answer is: he can not.

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 06:02 PM
Well, nothing to add really...

The better - most consistent for this matter - player deservedly won.

What a truly horrible display from Fed! I expected him to lose (as anyone with a little knowledge about clay tennis should have), but not in this terrible way. Complete and utter choke in that second set, as if he just didn't WANT to win this match at all.
It shows his vulnerabilities on clay so well: when his serve is MIA, and his forehand is OFF - he's a goner.

Look, I honestly don't care which of these two wins a match - but at least make it a MATCH, and not a choke- and UE-fest. :( Roger will have some things to think about the coming week. Hopefully Higueras can be of a bit of help to him (I still believe he's an excellent choice).

Congrats to Rafa of course, who once again showed his guts and fighting spirit, especially in that second set. 0 - 4? Who cares, he's going to win that set anyway... :worship:

:hug: :hug: :hug: for Rogelio for at least reaching that final. Who would've thought he'd be able to get there after that awful match a few days ago? Certainly not me...

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 06:05 PM
Commiserations to Roger - so many chances today - this must really hurt. Now if only he can play an entire match against Rafa like the first 4 games of the second set! Not much to ask I suppose...

Yep. I think it was very visible that this loss hurt him more than last year's. He had so many chances, and in fact shanked them all. Cut down the UEs (along with a higher serve percentage of course) and the match would've gone a completely different way.
Well, it's easier said than done I suppose... :shrug:

yanchr
04-27-2008, 06:06 PM
Ask youself why you expected that? I know that Fed is a mental midget with 12 GS titles and players on the other side of the net don't matter at all, but still...
So what are you trying to say here? Of course the fact that it's Nadal opposite you made a big difference, both technically and mentally.

I happen to think that at first technical side was too obvious to even talk about mental side, and then it dominated the mental side, and now, the mental side stands out for me...

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 06:07 PM
What a truly horrible display from Fed! ...

It was better than last year. :shrug:

SUKTUEN
04-27-2008, 06:11 PM
It was better than last year. :shrug:

yes, better than last year.:(

yanchr
04-27-2008, 06:14 PM
It was better than last year. :shrug:
Yes, and that's why it felt worse :shrug: I'm wondering if you really didn't have any hope or give Roger the slightest chance watching how the match went...

Surely I did :shrug:

Ok, I'm done. Tired.

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 06:18 PM
So what are you trying to say here? Of course the fact that it's Nadal opposite you made a big difference, both technically and mentally.

I happen to think that at first technical side was too obvious to even talk about mental side, and then it dominated the mental side, and now, the mental side stands out for me...

What stands out for me is that he has to play a perfect macth from 15-0 until GSM Federer. His game on clay is not solid/consistent enough to do that against Nadal. Speaking of today's macth, I thought he lacked fitness in the 2nd set (expecting a lot of :smash: ing for suggesting that).

robinhood
04-27-2008, 06:24 PM
Too bad he couldn't hold on to the lead in the second set.
It always seems to happen against Nadal esp. on clay.
Neither can he hang on to the lead nor break Nadal when it matters the most.

Oh well.
I'm happy though with the result.
Hopefully he will do better in Rome!

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 06:33 PM
It was better than last year. :shrug:

True. The difference is that last year he had NO CHANCE whatsoever, while this year... well okay. :tape:

Choke? brainfart? Mirkaland? whatever, it was hurting to watch. :(

tiptop
04-27-2008, 06:35 PM
I must admit that I thought Fed could win today, but I'm not too disapointed with the loss. On the one hand this has to do with the great week he has had and on the other with the fine display during some parts of the match. I'm happy he was able to break Rafa several time during the match - what an improvement in comparison to last year's clay encounters (with the exception of Hamburg of course). I'm also happy that he returned much more aggressively than before and I still think though he lost 7 of the 8 last games his game still didn't went totally down the drain. He just lost a bit of concentration and played okay instead of very good. In a way I'm happy he didn't win today because I somehow think he would have peaked too early. Of course it would be great to beat Rafa before the French but I'm sure today's loss doesn't do much damage to his confidence. I feel he more than ever believes he can beat him be it in Rome, Hamburg or hopefully Paris. If he wants to beat him in Paris it will probably take one of the best matches of his life, but he surely made a step forward today not backwards.

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 06:35 PM
Yes, and that's why it felt worse :shrug: I'm wondering if you really didn't have any hope or give Roger the slightest chance watching how the match went...


My feelings exactly... :hug:

neenah
04-27-2008, 06:38 PM
My feelings exactly... :hug:

Painfully close can be quite painful :hug:

But look at it this way: Roger beat two of his other rivals. A good week overall IMO, just with a shaky ending.

First Fedal final in a while too ;)

Marek.
04-27-2008, 06:41 PM
What stands out for me is that he has to play a perfect macth from 15-0 until GSM Federer. His game on clay is not solid/consistent enough to do that against Nadal. Speaking of today's macth, I thought he lacked fitness in the 2nd set (expecting a lot of :smash: ing for suggesting that).

He's played a lot of matches over the last two weeks that included four three setters so he must have been feeling physically/mentally tired towards the end of the final.

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 06:43 PM
Painfully close can be quite painful :hug:

Still I rather see a match like 2007 Wimbly final than one like this (regardless who ends up as the winner).

But look at it this way: Roger beat two of his other rivals. A good week overall IMO, just with a shaky ending.

First Fedal final in a while too ;)

Of course, it's great he managed to reach that final at all. Let's hope he'll be able to repeat that a couple of times the coming two months... :yeah:

Haven't seen any pics of the match yet... :confused:

neenah
04-27-2008, 06:49 PM
Still I rather see a match like 2007 Wimbly final than one like this (regardless who ends up as the winner).

Wimbly 07 final :hearts: Great match.

trickcy
04-27-2008, 06:56 PM
Roger :sad::sad:

I guess this is what we all expected. But, the 4-0 lead he had in the second makes it worse. I honestly don't know what's better : Not having a chance in a million to win and losing so that there are no could-have, would-have and should-have bothering you, or having chances and screwing them up. When he was 4-0 up, I did expect Nadal to break back. Afterall, he always does:o But, with a double break I thought the match would atleast go the distance.

At any rate, this is something I would have gladly accepted at the beginning of the week. He played better and better as the week went on. And he did have his chances against Nadal. And he seems to be listening to Jose. This year was tactically much better than last year. And, I hope that by the time Roland Garros comes by, things would have improved some more. Roger must have learnt something from this match. And hopefully he and Jose will work on it.

At any rate, it's been a good week for Roger. As he put it "It always ends this way" Just don't go into the Freanch Open thinking like that Roger:fiery::fiery::fiery::fiery: Your backhand vs Nadal's forehand, his return of serve, your serve not being as effective, the match up, the head to head, you choking, (in my opinion)... isn't this enough?? Must you go into a match thinking you'll lose??:sobbing:

Oh well, it's been better than last year.. better than this year to date, better than what I expected:o It's just that hopes rise when you go 4-0 up, Roger. Gain some points in Rome, Roger. And somehow, do something, anything for RG:hug::hug:

GonzoFed
04-27-2008, 06:56 PM
First time i'm happy reading the fedtard whining, moaning, complaining, armchair criticism, pseudoexpert opinion crap. It means that Fed is coming back :p. About the match, i agree with what Expectedwinner said, and disagree with yanchr's opinion.

nobama
04-27-2008, 07:01 PM
Well, nothing to add really...

The better - most consistent for this matter - player deservedly won.

What a truly horrible display from Fed! I expected him to lose (as anyone with a little knowledge about clay tennis should have), but not in this terrible way. Complete and utter choke in that second set, as if he just didn't WANT to win this match at all.
It shows his vulnerabilities on clay so well: when his serve is MIA, and his forehand is OFF - he's a goner.

Look, I honestly don't care which of these two wins a match - but at least make it a MATCH, and not a choke- and UE-fest. :( Roger will have some things to think about the coming week. Hopefully Higueras can be of a bit of help to him (I still believe he's an excellent choice).

Congrats to Rafa of course, who once again showed his guts and fighting spirit, especially in that second set. 0 - 4? Who cares, he's going to win that set anyway... :worship:

:hug: :hug: :hug: for Rogelio for at least reaching that final. Who would've thought he'd be able to get there after that awful match a few days ago? Certainly not me...This result shouldn't surprise you at all. #1 Obviously Roger doesn't yet believe he can get it done against Nadal on clay. Most of it is between the ears. #2 as others have mentioned you have to have a huge serve and your ground game has to be near perfect to even have a shot. Roger's serve isn't a weapon on clay and we know what can happen to his groundies.....especially when he's being pinned in the BH corner all day. :o #3 outside of Rome NONE of their matches on clay have been great. At no point are they ever both playing great at the same time. That's why it's no fun whatsoever to watch.

To me this match was not worse. What would've been worse was a repeat of last year. Still was a straight sets loss but the performace WAS different. The biggest reason losing to Nadal on clay doesn't bother me so much (even if I do still have slight hope is that NOBODY can beat him. Look at the Barcelona draw and tell me who has even the slightest chance of taking him out. There just isn't anyone. So it's basically left up to Roger. And as good as Roger is on clay it's not his best surface. Maybe if someone else was stepping up to the plate and showing that Nadal was at least human on the surface it would be a little bit easier. Of course the match up issue is still there, but still I'd like to see Djokovic, Ferrer, Almagro, etc. step up and give him some competition so it's not the same old story of 'only Roger Roger can do it'. Otherwise the clay season once again will be so f*cking boring with Nadal winning everything in sight and everyone else happy for the scraps they get. :rolleyes:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 07:01 PM
Not disappointed at all.

After a horrible 1st match he won matches I wouldn't have thought he would and in great fashion and today in the final, unlike last year, he gave a good account of himself and made Nadal worry in both sets.

Remember how he looked in the last few months and compare. And if he can improve from here that would be just fantastic.

He's got the right coach at last and I admire his iron will to keep improving on the surface. Other legends like Sampras, Edberg and Becker lost motivation to improve their clay game after 1 or 2 deep runs at the French which ended in heartbreaking defeats, but he's been solidifying his status as the 2nd best on the surface for the 4th year running.

Definitely one of the best competitors the sport has seen.

nobama
04-27-2008, 07:03 PM
Rogiman :hug:

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 07:06 PM
Also, people act like he lost one of his bread and butter titles: Wimbly and USO (which he could very well lose this year BTW).
It's clay and everyone knows who the boss is, and I wonder how anyone could have really expected him to win this - if he can surprise and sneak a win over Nadal then great, but to be disappointed because he lost a match he's supposed to lose?

mangoes
04-27-2008, 07:07 PM
I just got home:mad: :mad:

I kept getting the scores texted to me and I began to hope:devil:..........I should have never hoped.

I have the match taped, so I have to watch it later....

Anyway, I didn't expect a win.......I'm not sad, but I'm pissed that I began to hope when he broke Nadal.

nobama
04-27-2008, 07:08 PM
According to rf.com apparently Higueras isn't going to be with Roger in Rome and Hamburg but will come back for RG.

Rogiman
04-27-2008, 07:11 PM
According to rf.com apparently Higueras isn't going to be with Roger in Rome and Hamburg but will come back for RG.Too bad. I think he can draw a lot of confidence from his presence and learn a lot about the tactical side of the game on clay.

mangoes
04-27-2008, 07:12 PM
According to rf.com apparently Higueras isn't going to be with Roger in Rome and Hamburg but will come back for RG.

That makes no sense:o Oh well..........

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 07:16 PM
According to rf.com apparently Higueras isn't going to be with Roger in Rome and Hamburg but will come back for RG.

:(

juninhOH
04-27-2008, 07:17 PM
damn roger, keep higueras!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think he can really help him with nadal!

MissMoJo
04-27-2008, 07:18 PM
But does Fed believe enough in himself to play a perfect all round match against Nadal? That 2nd set told me he does not - and doubt he ever will to be honest.
I don't think it's fair to chock it all up to lack of belief though. If that was the case I don't think he'd have been able to make the strides he has in the h2h and start winning on the surfaces that favor him. As difficult as it is to play a perfect match to begin with, it has to be even more mentally and physically exhausting to be the one that has the pressure of successfully employing tactics that you're not comfortable with point after point, game after game to give yourself any chance... while Nadal just plays his natural game on a surface that gives him the advantage and waits for the inevitable let down. Roger usually has lapses during a match anyway, but when it happens against Nadal he panics, unravels,forgets about strategy and reverts to his comfort zone which of course plays right into Nadal's hands, and loses any upperhand he had.

Hopefully he and Higueras can work on him keeping his composure when he gets into situations like the 2nd set today, so that even when he does slip up, he'll be able to stay calm and right the ship.

Anyway, I'm so glad to see him playing well again :) and the coaching partnership seems to be beneficial so far. I hope he can build on this performance in Rome and gives himself another chance to play Nadal.

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 07:27 PM
Not disappointed at all.

After a horrible 1st match he won matches I wouldn't have thought he would and in great fashion and today in the final, unlike last year, he gave a good account of himself and made Nadal worry in both sets.

Remember how he looked in the last few months and compare. And if he can improve from here that would be just fantastic.

He's got the right coach at last and I admire his iron will to keep improving on the surface. Other legends like Sampras, Edberg and Becker lost motivation to improve their clay game after 1 or 2 deep runs at the French which ended in heartbreaking defeats, but he's been solidifying his status as the 2nd best on the surface for the 4th year running.
Definitely one of the best competitors the sport has seen.

Agree with that and the rest of the post.

Nadal is a dreadful mach up for Fed on clay, yet he's still trying, trying, and trying.... only getting very little credit for it and a huge luggage of disapointments to carry on for Wimbledon.

I prefer this match to the last year's match. Yes, at the end of the day it's the L against his name, but at least he's been able to challenge Nadal this year; while last year he looked like Robredo, totally clueless and outplayed by Nadal.

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 07:28 PM
This result shouldn't surprise you at all. #1 Obviously Roger doesn't yet believe he can get it done against Nadal on clay.

I never said I was surprised about the eventual (and inevitable) result - I was rather surprised about how many chances Roger still got! I actually expected a beat-down, 6-3, 6-2, or something the like.

And I don't agree with you that Roger doesn't believe he can do it - for the simple reason that he CAN. If he had no belief, why would he keep on trying out new things, improving his clay game etc? :shrug:

To me this match was not worse. What would've been worse was a repeat of last year. Still was a straight sets loss but the performace WAS different.

There is a positive and a negative side to it - the positive side being that Feds actually had chances here (in contrary to last year, when he had ZILCH) - the negative side being him not taking them.

So it's basically left up to Roger. And as good as Roger is on clay it's not his best surface.

Fully agree with you here - people often seem to forget that the ONLY player who might have any chance at beating Raf is indeed Roger, and no-one else. Despite clay being his worst surface - he IS a great clay courter. ;)

trickcy
04-27-2008, 07:29 PM
I wish Higueras would stay with him the whole clay season. The little time spent with him already seems to be working.

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 07:31 PM
According to rf.com apparently Higueras isn't going to be with Roger in Rome and Hamburg but will come back for RG.

Saw that. It really puzzles me... why not further work on the improvement while you still have plenty time to do so before RG? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder whose decision this was - Roger's or Josť's?

nobama
04-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Too bad. I think he can draw a lot of confidence from his presence and learn a lot about the tactical side of the game on clay.
Yep Roger confirmed it in his presser that Jose is going home and will hook up with him in Paris.

nobama
04-27-2008, 07:34 PM
Saw that. It really puzzles me... why not further work on the improvement while you still have plenty time to do so before RG? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I wonder whose decision this was - Roger's or Josť's?Don't know but I have read that Jose doesn't like to travel as much now so that might have been part of the deal - I'll work with you but only part time.

rofe
04-27-2008, 07:39 PM
The 4-0 slip up only solidifies in Nadal's mind what he has known all along. Even if he is behind Roger that much, he should keep playing patiently and Roger will give him easy chances to get back in the game.

That to me is more damaging than Roger's own game in the next few tournaments.

ExpectedWinner
04-27-2008, 07:52 PM
The 4-0 slip up only solidifies in Nadal's mind what he has known all along. Even if he is behind Roger that much, he should keep playing patiently and Roger will give him easy chances to get back in the game. That to me is more damaging than Roger's own game in the next few tournaments.



What do you suggest? Should Fed stop trying?

Sunset of Age
04-27-2008, 07:57 PM
Don't know but I have read that Jose doesn't like to travel as much now so that might have been part of the deal - I'll work with you but only part time.

I guess so... still, pretty bad I think, as Josť has already done very good work for/with Fed this week - or so I believe. Hopefully Roger will keep his advice in mind in Rome and Hamburg...

What do you suggest? Should Fed stop trying?

I think it's rather fantastic of Roger that he keeps on trying despite the many disappointments he already got, and undoubtedly will continue to get. That's the fighting spirit of a true champ... :shrug:

raven gypsy
04-27-2008, 08:00 PM
http://www.blogquotidiani.net/tennis/?page_id=1939#fed27

An interview with/Intervista a:

ROGER FEDERER

R. Nadal b. ROGER FEDERER 7 5, 7 5

Q. How do you view that match, looking back on it?

ROGER FEDERER: Uhm, I thought it was, you know, a tough match obviously.

But, no, I thought I played okay. You know, disappointing second set, I guess, you know, after playing, you know, the right way against him and then, you know, letting him back into the match. You know, it was disappointing. Maybe I didnít play my best for sure.

But itís tough against him, you know, under the circumstances, you know. And he deserves to win in the end, you know, I think because heís a helluva clay court player.

Q. So what do you take away? Obviously youíre not happy but maybe youíre not so disappointed either.

ROGER FEDERER: No, I mean, it takes a lot to be disappointed for me, you know. I mean, honestly Iím coming back strong. Iím happy the way things, where they are now, whereas still maybe a few weeks ago, still a little bit of doubt maybe, you know.

But honestly for me itís a very positive week of coming back from the brink, you know, in the first round, and now playing ‑‑ you know, beating great players, you know, on the way to the finals.

Iím pushing Rafa today, having the feeling I can beat him, you know, if I play the right way. And I think thatís the feeling I didnít have after, you know, Monaco last year.

So this year changed, you know. And thatís a good thing. Just, you know, playing again, being healthy, moving well. Itís just a good feeling to have again.

SCANAGATTA: Q. The other day you said it was our job to look for when you were able to recover from 1‑5 in the third set. Do you remember by chance if it has ever happened that you lost a set when you were leading 4‑Love?

ROGER FEDERER: Also your job again. So, no.

SCANAGATTA Q. No idea?

ROGER FEDERER: No idea.

Q. Are you going to be taking Jose to Rome?

ROGER FEDERER: No. Heís going to go back home. I told you already. Heís going to go back home and then come back for Paris.

Q. Could you possibly say what you think heís actually brought to your game so far, Jose?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, the thing is we havenít spent much time on the practice courts, you know, which is normally a thing youíre not supposed to do. But thereís no rules obviously to it. But just this is where he you could maybe change a few things in your game. This has been more of a talking experience for the last couple of weeks, you know, because Iíve been on the match courts, you know, every day. So itís been interesting, you know. A lot of information.

It was also good to play against Rafa I think on clay right away again and get a feel for how heís playing. So itís been good with him, as well, you know. And also with Severin, like I said, heís also part of the whole thing. Heís going to come to Rome and Hamburg with me. Joseís going to go back, and then weíll get together again in Paris.

MARTUCCI: The biggest improvement do you think Nadal did is on the backhand or in other things?

ROGER FEDERER: No, just in general, you know, heís a more complete player. But that was an obvious thing for me, he was going to be able to achieve that. You know, it just shows. Heís in the doubles finals as well. You wouldnít have thought that maybe four years ago. So it was obvious he was going to improve at the net, improve his serve, improve his whatever it is.

Heís still young and improving. Thatís why itís important just for him to play compact and tough. You know, he brings that day in and day out on clay. For him itís just so natural and so no‑problem that it makes it hard for the other players to beat him.

SCANAGATTA Q. Today you made less points on your serve than you won. That has never happened as far as I know. How do you explain it? Do you think it has something to do with your serve or his return?

ROGER FEDERER: I think he played well from the baseline, you know. He had great length, you know, especially on the forehand side. I know I had a bad record on second‑serve points won, you know. Might be the leader, you know, on tour. Today I barely made 30%, so it just shows what a tough clay court return player he is.

But, no, I donít know what the problem was. I didnít think I served particularly bad. But, like I said, my attacking game didnít really work. And maybe this is where I lost a few ‑‑ you know, probably I guess too many points.

Q. You seemed to be a little more relaxed and perhaps not even as disappointed with yourself as you have been in other circumstances when you lost to Rafa. Is that right?

ROGER FEDERER: No. I donít remember being relaxed here last year.

Q. Maybe perhaps not quite as depressed. Is that because you think your game is getting better and you are improving?

ROGER FEDERER: I donít know. I guess Iím growing up, you know, donít take losses that bad any more.

But I donít expect losses against Rafa at all. You know, I mean, I try everything I can. And when itís not enough, itís unfortunate, you know. But like I said, I think it was a good match for me, you know, to play him here.

I probably said it on many occasions, but today I felt much more confident, you know. The way the plays were played were more the way I liked it than still maybe last year where I felt like I was completely out of the match from the start, you know. So today was better. And maybe thatís why Iím not that disappointed.

But just because Iím relaxed here doesnít mean, you know, Iím sort of not disappointed, whatever. I wish I could have won today.

SCANAGATTA Q. Were you also tired at the end or you could have played five sets?

ROGER FEDERER: Could have played seven sets if I had to, no problem. Itís a pity, best‑of‑three‑set finals. Theyíre over so quickly, you know.

Like I said yesterday, I donít think fitness mattered at all today ícause, you know, what, six, seven hours on court throughout the week. Normally we do 20. So this is peanuts.

rofe
04-27-2008, 08:03 PM
What do you suggest? Should Fed stop trying?

No, he should try to solve that problem by being very focused on protecting his serve when he is in a position like that.

soraya
04-27-2008, 08:42 PM
I am not disappointed at all, no one here thought he could have reached the quarters let it alone the finals. Given all the issues he had prior this final and given the fact that he has beaten Nalbi and the Djerk, we should be proud of him. As for today, sure he had his chances to beat Rafa, it did not happen because he choked, or because he fears Nadal or whatever reasons was given by other posters. I think he played wonderfully besides the wrong choices that cost him the match. I am sure he took note and he will continue to improve. I could already see few changes in his game that made Rafa and his camp bewildered at moments. Let us not forget where he came from at the beginning of the week and even before that.

JediFed
04-28-2008, 01:31 AM
So what let him down? His serve?

Rafa just kills second serves on clay.

Definitely positives. I would like to see Roger win on Rome. The surface is more suited to his game anyways.

Still 3x Monte Carlos finals that's brutal to lose them all to Rafa.

*esther*
04-28-2008, 01:39 AM
Was totally gutted :sad:

But, never mind, at least he'd defended his points.

Allez Roger in Hamburg:hug:

JediFed
04-28-2008, 01:47 AM
So where do we go from here?

How is Roger going to go and beat Rafa for once in Rome?

Seems to me if Roger just serves better and holds he can match up against Rafa. He won the majority of points off Rafa's serve, which he's never done before.

Sunset of Age
04-28-2008, 01:51 AM
Hi Luis and Esther!

Baaahhhh... just when I need to get to bed, finally some nice folks turn up over here. :(

So what let him down? His serve?

Rafa just kills second serves on clay.

Definitely positives. I would like to see Roger win on Rome. The surface is more suited to his game anyways.

Still 3x Monte Carlos finals that's brutal to lose them all to Rafa.

What killed him today is a combination of two things IMHO:
1) First serve MIA (apart from those 5 aces) - nearly netted everything. And we all know what Raf does with second serves... :help:
Roger's points made on second serve-stat: 29%... brrrr.

Of course credits should go to Raf as well - he returned very well indeed, constantly looking for ways to bomb Fed's BH thereafter and thus winning the points. Well breaking Fed's serve game six times, in fact. :eek:

2) Much too inconsistent playing by Fed - 44 UEs. And YES, a majority of his errors were indeed unforced - he had many mishits, and/or stupid decisions on shotmaking, and/or shanking balls with which he usually has no trouble.
Of course, here as well: credits for Raf for playing an intelligent game, constantly and relentlessly seeking Fed's weaker side - the BH.
FH was off, too, btw.

And some minor factors: movement became slower after his 4-0 lead in the second set, a slight loss of concentration - I even heard a "WHHOOOPPS!" coming from his mouth after a tremendous passing shot by Raf - and a smile going along with it. So, both physical and mental elements I guess.

But indeed as you say - also positive sides, the most important one being the fact that Roger indeed knows how to deal with Rafa's bombs - he tried out a lot of things, and didn't get the upper hand in BOTH sets at the first instance for no reason - but his consistency let him down. That's something for him to more work done on I think.

Was totally gutted :sad:

But, never mind, at least he'd defended his points.

Allez Roger in Hamburg:hug:

Indeed, he defended his points, and that was wayyyy more than we expected a few days ago, no? :D

It's Rome next, btw - thereafter Hamburg.

Sunset of Age
04-28-2008, 01:54 AM
So where do we go from here?

How is Roger going to go and beat Rafa for once in Rome?

Less mistakes and UEs, find back his first serve, and keep the concentration up I'd say. :shrug:

Doesn't mean it's going to be an easy job by no means!
Rafa is just a brilliant player on clay, nothing less... it takes a lot for Roger to ever win from him - I'll be happy if he can just make it to a (semi-)final in Rome.

I mean, if Djoko didn't have those 'breathing problems' (we all assume it was a fake excuse, but who knows for sure?), he might not have been in the finals at all...

mangoes
04-28-2008, 01:57 AM
Karin.........your fellow Fedal fan is reporting Fed and Rafa tards .... Funny:lol: :lol: Check out the Djerk thread.

Sunset of Age
04-28-2008, 02:06 AM
Karin.........your fellow Fedal fan is reporting Fed and Rafa tards .... Funny:lol: :lol: Check out the Djerk thread.

I've seen that. :haha:
Perhaps I should join in, too...

The match thread in GM stayed strangely civil today. I don't get it. Have star's and Faren's Wise Words already worked out? :confused: :silly:

Dirk
04-28-2008, 02:07 AM
Roger has great instincts (even on clay) but it is not enough to come close to beating Nadal. He must learn to think and I hope Jose puts that into him. He needs to follow Serena's lead and take notes onto the court and read them on the change over. Roger needs to do more ripping BH return on 2nd serve and less run around FH which usually knocks him out of position and causes him to lose the point. He had the right idea of changing the pace but he never committed to it. It was very upsetting watching this mess but I am glad he made the finals and I think he will do the same in Rome.

SUKTUEN
04-28-2008, 02:15 AM
yeah, Roger play quite good, but Nadal play very good!

*esther*
04-28-2008, 02:30 AM
Hi Luis and Esther!


It's Rome next, btw - thereafter Hamburg.

Hi :wavey:

I was thinking to type Rome and Hamburg:banghead::scratch::scratch:

trickcy
04-28-2008, 08:15 AM
Allez Roger!! Onto Rome and Hamburg now!

Mrs. B
04-28-2008, 08:21 AM
missed the match yesterday as i was on the train but according to the hubby he played well so that's good to hear and i don't care if he loses Roma or Hamburg as long as he gets RG. It's now or never! Allez, Hopp, Vamos!!!

btw., what happened to the 2nd set? heard Roger was leading 4-1. he should have taken that 2nd set, no?

anon57
04-28-2008, 10:15 AM
I was at family in the weekend so only got to see final today. My thoughts, considering where he was coming from earlier in the year and his poor play at times, this week was great. I was happy to see that this kind of play was still there. As for the loss in the final against Nadal, well eventhough it's not that surprising he lost, I'm still rather dissapointed mostly because he had chances but couldn't keep up his level to take a set. But the fact he got the breaks and was up in the sets was a good sign even if he' still not capable of playing at the kind of level needed to defeat Nadal an entire set or match. Hopefully he can go from here and keep improving for the rest of the clay season.

yanchr
04-28-2008, 10:47 AM
Also, people act like he lost one of his bread and butter titles: Wimbly and USO (which he could very well lose this year BTW).
It's clay and everyone knows who the boss is, and I wonder how anyone could have really expected him to win this - if he can surprise and sneak a win over Nadal then great, but to be disappointed because he lost a match he's supposed to lose?
Disappointed not because he lost a match especially not when he's supposed to lose, but because he had his chances and only had to gave them away. Didn't expect him to win but at least took your chances when you had them. I know anyway it's a complicated issue against Nadal on clay, but when you were given a high short ball to your forehand at least put them away instead of hitting softly directly at Nadal asking for a pass (40:30, 5:6). Unlike last year where I was not at all disappointed because he was hopeless and there was no chance at all, this match showed signs he can do it. It's no doubt a very very tough task but it is not impossible, to me at least.

But, from saying no chance at all early this year, to now I can see a slight hope, it's a big progress already. Most importantly, seeing how he played in the past few tournaments and how he played in the past few matches, I can't be more happy. He is almost back to normal now. At least we can be more confident about his Wimbledon, which could be the only goal this year. Yet again honestly, as a fan, I can't keep truly 100% zero expectation for RG...

BTW, I'm not disappointed any more. MC is a big success already. And he showed us all once again what he is made of, and why he is Roger Federer.

yanchr
04-28-2008, 11:01 AM
Yep Roger confirmed it in his presser that Jose is going home and will hook up with him in Paris.
Why they have to part ways until RG while their not so long relationship already has a decent yield :(

Apemant
04-28-2008, 11:43 AM
Disappointed not because he lost a match especially not when he's supposed to lose, but because he had his chances and only had to gave them away. Didn't expect him to win

My sentiment exactly.

Sure, Rafa does this to everyone else as well - not sure if anyone noticed, but every single match of his in MC this year, over 50% of points he won were the opponent's UEs. This includes the final, of 76 points Rafa won, 44 were Roger's UEs. That's 58%. Sheesh. I really don't understand how anyone can actually root for a game like that, which depends on brutally shattering the other side and make them hit UE after UE. that should be appropriate for sports like boxing etc. not the game of tennis. Imagine some girl playing Rafa on clay, he would literally tear her arm after 10 minutes of rallying.

But hey, I guess it's just the way things are. Many view Karlovic's serve as an 'unfair advantage' - I see Nadal's topspin forehand to Fed's BH almost as a POKE 23453,255 to give you some perk in a video game. Soooo easy. Awful to see talent beaten by such brute force alone.

But what really is hardest to take is exactly this feeling, that even though it definitely has a lot to do with Rafa himself (as he does this to everyone else, not just Roger) - I feel that some silly UEs actually cost Roger the match, the kind of UEs which simply can't be 'forced' by Nadal's game. I mean, he gives him a short ball and Roger, of all people, fails to kill it on the net. How is that a consequence of Rafa's game? Perhaps only in a psychological sense, by making Roger dead scared I guess. But game-wise, he should be able to handle such situations, even if noone else can.

Ah well. It would be so great to see Roger finding a way to handle this topspin. I still hope it's possible. In fact I know it is possible - but not sure it will actually happen. Somehow I rarely see Federer forehand really biting in his matches vs. Nadal. Often they look surprisingly soft. Is it because of Nadal's topspin? Does it neutralize Fed's own forehand strength or whatever?

nobama
04-28-2008, 11:50 AM
Why they have to part ways until RG while their not so long relationship already has a decent yield :(I figure he's learned a lot in the past two weeks and how he has a chance to apply it on his own. Of course Luthi will be with him so he won't be totally alone.

lsy
04-28-2008, 12:16 PM
Not disappointed at all.

After a horrible 1st match he won matches I wouldn't have thought he would and in great fashion and today in the final, unlike last year, he gave a good account of himself and made Nadal worry in both sets.

Remember how he looked in the last few months and compare. And if he can improve from here that would be just fantastic.

He's got the right coach at last and I admire his iron will to keep improving on the surface. Other legends like Sampras, Edberg and Becker lost motivation to improve their clay game after 1 or 2 deep runs at the French which ended in heartbreaking defeats, but he's been solidifying his status as the 2nd best on the surface for the 4th year running.

Definitely one of the best competitors the sport has seen.


Nadal is a dreadful mach up for Fed on clay, yet he's still trying, trying, and trying.... only getting very little credit for it and a huge luggage of disapointments to carry on for Wimbledon.

Couldn't agree more and I honestly think this is one aspect Roger gets the least recognition on.


Yes, he did and that was the problem for him. He obvious couldn't sustain the varied play he had until 4-0 (including sharp angle CC FH, BH dropshot, keeping the BH deep down the center to prevent Nadal from exploiting the anlge and volleying judiciously) so he had to get better about focusing on his serve game and make most if not all his 1st serves in his remaining games. That is what I meant by keeping an even mental state.


I don't think it's fair to chock it all up to lack of belief though. If that was the case I don't think he'd have been able to make the strides he has in the h2h and start winning on the surfaces that favor him. As difficult as it is to play a perfect match to begin with, it has to be even more mentally and physically exhausting to be the one that has the pressure of successfully employing tactics that you're not comfortable with point after point, game after game to give yourself any chance... while Nadal just plays his natural game on a surface that gives him the advantage and waits for the inevitable let down. Roger usually has lapses during a match anyway, but when it happens against Nadal he panics, unravels,forgets about strategy and reverts to his comfort zone which of course plays right into Nadal's hands, and loses any upperhand he had.

These 2 posts said what I have in mind...save all my troubles of typing :p

Maybe one day...the moon/sun/star are all aligned in the most perfect way, Roger will finally be rewarded for his efforts and let's all hope that will be the RG final day :angel:

yanchr
04-28-2008, 12:27 PM
My sentiment exactly.

Sure, Rafa does this to everyone else as well - not sure if anyone noticed, but every single match of his in MC this year, over 50% of points he won were the opponent's UEs. This includes the final, of 76 points Rafa won, 44 were Roger's UEs. That's 58%. Sheesh. I really don't understand how anyone can actually root for a game like that, which depends on brutally shattering the other side and make them hit UE after UE. that should be appropriate for sports like boxing etc. not the game of tennis. Imagine some girl playing Rafa on clay, he would literally tear her arm after 10 minutes of rallying.

But hey, I guess it's just the way things are. Many view Karlovic's serve as an 'unfair advantage' - I see Nadal's topspin forehand to Fed's BH almost as a POKE 23453,255 to give you some perk in a video game. Soooo easy. Awful to see talent beaten by such brute force alone.
I think it's an old story that I don't even want to bother talking about. I recently (before the final) mentioned again that I disliked Nadal ever since I saw him first time in 2004. I disliked his pants, his look in the eyes, his fist-pumping, his ass-picking, and above all, his way of play! It doesn't change over the years even with Djerker's up-growing :devil: But honestly he is already much better than before, and I kind of get used to it :o

But what really is hardest to take is exactly this feeling, that even though it definitely has a lot to do with Rafa himself (as he does this to everyone else, not just Roger) - I feel that some silly UEs actually cost Roger the match, the kind of UEs which simply can't be 'forced' by Nadal's game. I mean, he gives him a short ball and Roger, of all people, fails to kill it on the net. How is that a consequence of Rafa's game? Perhaps only in a psychological sense, by making Roger dead scared I guess. But game-wise, he should be able to handle such situations, even if noone else can.
I was reading through the thread in GM and I second everything here and what you said there, but I guess we are the minority :shrug: I was not saying he lost ONLY because of the mental thing, but he surely was able to do better than this if he got his mental thing straight ...

Ah well. It would be so great to see Roger finding a way to handle this topspin. I still hope it's possible. In fact I know it is possible - but not sure it will actually happen. Somehow I rarely see Federer forehand really biting in his matches vs. Nadal. Often they look surprisingly soft. Is it because of Nadal's topspin? Does it neutralize Fed's own forehand strength or whatever?
I think he has handled Nadal's top spin a lot better than before already, esp his backhand actually holds decently there. His forehand could be more of an issue. For the soft forehand, could it be that he wanted more control on the forehand rather than aiming for a direct winner to avoid making easy errors...But he made them anyway :shrug: I'm sure sb else here can give you a more professional answer :wavey:

Dirk
04-28-2008, 01:06 PM
He lost because he stopped thinking out there and hada bad attitude suddenly out of nowhere, that is what is dissappointing. Jose and Roger need to sit down and fix this. He should be doing what Serena does in terms of taking some notes from Jose and reading through them on the court during changeovers because he loses his thoughts way too much out there with nadal. He deserves props for an incredible week of making the final and I will be surprised if he doesn't make the Rome final.

Apemant
04-28-2008, 01:10 PM
I was reading through the thread in GM and I second everything here and what you said there, but I guess we are the minority :shrug: I was not saying he lost ONLY because of the mental thing, but he surely was able to do better than this if he got his mental thing straight ...

I don't think we are in minority... it just that talking like that isn't very popular, people fear being labeled as 'sore losers', 'delusional fanboys' or sth like that. But I say what I think and what I see, and don't care if someone calls it anyway they like. I'm sure many feel something similar but have no motivation to talk openly. Why would they anyway. I just had nothing better to do and felt like letting some of my frustration out.


I think he has handled Nadal's top spin a lot better than before already, esp his backhand actually holds decently there. His forehand could be more of an issue. For the soft forehand, could it be that he wanted more control on the forehand rather than aiming for a direct winner to avoid making easy errors...But he made them anyway :shrug: I'm sure sb else here can give you a more professional answer :wavey:

In fact he did hit several really strange forehands which were suprisingly effective even. I mean it was those forehands that looked as if they will have a lot of power and depth, but instead just barely cleared the net. One of such shots even went to be a winner as it caught Rafa completely by surprise and he couldn't close in to smack it. It was short and super-angled to the BH side.

But overall, Rafa pounds his backhand so mercilessly that Roger get's sorta overexcited when he gets a chance to hit a forehand from the centre of the court. I think he should be more patient and less excited about such opportunities.

yanchr
04-28-2008, 01:44 PM
In fact he did hit several really strange forehands which were suprisingly effective even. I mean it was those forehands that looked as if they will have a lot of power and depth, but instead just barely cleared the net. One of such shots even went to be a winner as it caught Rafa completely by surprise and he couldn't close in to smack it. It was short and super-angled to the BH side.

But overall, Rafa pounds his backhand so mercilessly that Roger get's sorta overexcited when he gets a chance to hit a forehand from the centre of the court. I think he should be more patient and less excited about such opportunities.
I think yesterday he proved that the CC sharp-angled forehand could work quite effectively for him. I also think his powerful inside-out forehand to Nadal's forehand could be crucial, not necessarily clear yesterday, but is quite obvious in some of their previous matches. Which leads me to think that to beat Nadal, technically it lies more in his forehand than in his backhand. I see that Roger realized the importance of patience he needs against Nadal. He has to find a balance between being patient and going for his shots, and he did very well for some patches of the match, but couldn't maintain so throughout the whole match.

I just had nothing better to do and felt like letting some of my frustration out.
Yes MTF is good and fun, but there are surely better things to do :angel:

I admitted I had to swear yesterday during some stage though :lol: :p

SUKTUEN
04-28-2008, 03:27 PM
Roger will play Rome, hope he can play one more time with Nadal.

Blondie1985
04-28-2008, 05:42 PM
Roger will play Rome, hope he can play one more time with Nadal.

and win:devil::devil::devil:

Sunset of Age
04-28-2008, 08:43 PM
Roger will play Rome, hope he can play one more time with Nadal.

I hope for even more opportunities for him to play... eh... with Nadal.
:aplot: :devil: :lol:

(sorry, lame joke, I know. :angel:)

Eden
04-28-2008, 09:08 PM
I haven't been able to see any of Roger's matches in Monte Carlo. Who would have thought some days ago he would be able to reach the final and beating Nalbandian and Djokovic on the way?

Good to hear that the work with Higueras seems to pay off and he was able to improve his performance against Nadal from last year's MC final. Too bad that he couldn't use the lead in the 2nd set, but the Federer world is getting back to normal when the main concern is how to beat Nadal on clay.

Eden
04-28-2008, 10:36 PM
Stepping Over The Lines: The Bagel That Wasn't
by Patricia Davis

Roger Federer showed more than a few signs of resurrection this past week in Monte Carlo, but what happened in the final during that second set?

This past week I thought Roger Federer looked sufficiently revived that he could give Rafael Nadal a good run for his money in the final. I was just happy to see him IN the final; I had my doubts whether he could get there given his draw. So right there you have to say Federer overall probably had a pretty darn good week. He was hitting the ball crisply and cleanly, and he seemed willing to hang in the long rallies, mentally and physically. He lost a tight first set on a break at the end for 7-5 Nadal. The start of the second showed a Federer not daunted at all by the loss. He came out and played like a man on fire for the first four games, and was up 4-0.

And then it all seeped away and Nadal got back into it and went on to win the match, 7-5, 7-5. So what happened on the way to bagel? I went back over my notes and watched that second set again.

It was not a clear-cut, one-sided thing: Roger both picked up his play and Nadal took his foot off the gas. I think what was surprising was that the opposites should have happened: Nadal should have stepped on the gas having won the first set, and Roger should have been more disappointed.

What gave Federer that 4-0 lead was a combination of things. He tried some changes of pace, not always trying to cream the ground strokes. He also has a new toy: a sharply angled forehand with enough loop to clip the sidelines near the service box. This gave Nadal fits. It gave me fits just looking at it. Nadal is usually pretty good about dealing with sharply angled balls, but thatís more in the baseline rallies. This thing comes in at an angle heís not used to, he has to move a bit sideways and forward as well, and itís so perfectly placed that heís lucky to get a racket on it. Federer also took to being aggressive in general, stepping around backhands to hit a forehand, and generally pouncing on balls Nadal let fall short in the court. There were a number of those and Federer made the most of them, starting off the set by breaking Nadal at love. Federer also made numerous trips to the net and won most of those volleys.

On the other side, Nadal cooperated - for a while. He served at 2-0 down and double faulted the first point. Then he missed a forehand wide. Roger followed with a great inside out forehand for a winner. He clearly looked more energized early in the set. Rafa then served up a short forehand and Roger pounced to break him at love. 3-0 the score now. Errors crept into the Nadal game. He netted a backhand to go down 0-15 on his serve. Then he left another ball short and Roger hit a deep reply that Nadal couldnít handle. Roger followed with a service winner up the T, then a moment later with an ace. 4-0 was the score now.

And then it all started to slip away, not in a rush, but incrementally, bit by bit. Youíd be hard-pressed to name it, but it was happening. Nadal started to get his play back on track. The baseline rallies got longer, and Nadal started again to win most of them. His strokes got longer in the court, he continued to serve well. His confidence grew and Federerís began to ebb. Roger still tried to be aggressive somewhat, but now he was getting burned. He dumped a few volleys into the net and that seemed to sour him on moving in there. But when he stayed back he was starting to lose those points: he cut a backhand too close to the line and missed, or heíd overhit a forehand. His tactic of running around a backhand was a good one, but at one point the footwork wasnít quite there, he wasnít set up and he overhit the shot. Suddenly Nadal had one of the two breaks back at 4-2.

Nadal continued to hammer Federer into the backhand corner. Even though Roger was nearly standing next to the sideline, Nadal continued to drill balls into that little space. For the most part Rogerís backhand held up. He kept the slice deep and low, but it still did not matter by the end. It became increasingly difficult to stay mentally with the Spaniard.

And this I think is why Federer finally lost. The clay strategy just sucks it out of you. You not only have to hit one more ball, you have to hit one more ball. And then another. And another. It must be a depressing prospect. Ask Novak Djokovic. The thought of staying in those rallies time after time just wears you down until there is nothing left. No wonder he wanted to retire. The physical signs were breathing problems, but before that you have the mental stuff: your game is physically being stifled, you think the red dirt is getting into your nostrils. It probably isnít of course, but it feels that way. Then the mental translates into physical torment. You donít feel you are getting anywhere, and you know what? Youíre probably right. Very debilitating stuff. No wonder the American players hate clay. I would. But still, itís the best surface to show off the game of tennis, because you do have to work it so much. For some of us, thatís the joy of tennis on clay. When I get exasperated with that, I turn to hard courts: give us back our important big serves and quick kill shots and letís get out of here for early dinners, shall we?

Federer is a guy who can work it, up to a point. Then even he seems to mentally throw up his hands. But I have to say he did most of the things well in the match. New coach Jose Higueras should feel pretty proud of his pupil, although he was gritting his teeth in turmoil at some of the later misses from Roger in the match. Nadal came back, tied the score at 4-4, then moved into the lead and stayed there.

Robbie Koenig doing the commentary for TTC was asked: what happened? He took a very long moment and still had to grope for the words. Hear ye hear ye, suddenly an Australian is at a loss for words over tennis! Thatís probably a first right there. It was that kind of match. Particularly at the start of the second set. I really thought Federer was turning the entire match around, he had the momentum, he had the right tactics, we could smell the bagel baking in the oven. And then it slowly evaporated.

ďItís tough to say,Ē Koenig finally replied. ďI donít know what to say.Ē

As the match went on it slowly became apparent. Nadal steadied himself, and Federer went off a bit. Of course we arenít talking major shifts in power here. With these two such things do not occur. More like little shifts in energy. Nadal shut Federer down by hitting deeper, more angled shots, decreasing Number Oneís chances to be more aggressive.

Koenig finally seemed to settle on the Rabbit Patch theory: Federer was playing well, but only in patches now. In those patches his tactics would be right-on. But then the patch would end, heíd start making errors again. His confidence would drop as Nadalís advanced.

The final game saw Federer trying to avert the tide by playing aggressive again. He made a good first serve, followed it up with a vicious forehand that allowed him to move in. But he made a weak hash of the volley, got the reply from Nadal and made an even bigger hash of the second volley. It sat up begging to be launched into outer space and Nadal was just the man to do it. Federer must have been mightily disappointed with those volleys. For a minute his body stiffened like he wanted to launch the ball out of the stadium. But instead he smiled, the rueful sort of smile that says, ďNot today baby.Ē

The forehand really let him down especially near the end. He had twelve errors in the second set alone off that wing. The backhand did not really perform any better. At deuce Roger missed a backhand up the line, and then on championship point he had a chance to move in but probably felt he had been burned enough, stayed back and missed another backhand and Nadal had his fourth Monte Carlo title in a row.

I donít think Federer should hang his head. He still played a whale of a match befitting the second best clay court player in the world. He revived his own spirits after a disappointing start to the year with revenge wins over David Nalbandian and Novak Djokovic. He showed he could weather the near disaster of losing to a much lesser player Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo early on in the tournament. And he showed us that he can still find new shots and strategies to throw at the human buzz saw known as Rafael Nadal, who has now won 98 of 99 matches on clay. That is sick, no?

Canít wait to see more of these guys, hopefully at the Big Red One in Paris.

Source: http://mvn.com/tennis/2008/04/28/stepping-over-the-lines-the-bagel-that-wasnt/

FedFan_2007
04-28-2008, 10:52 PM
Pretty sad state of affairs for Roger.

Federerhingis
04-28-2008, 11:50 PM
Nice article thanks Doris. :hug: