If argentina plays vs. spain... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

If argentina plays vs. spain...

casabe
02-13-2008, 08:57 PM
in argentina...should they play in hard or clay...what do you think?

Albop
02-13-2008, 08:59 PM
if nadal plays hard ;)

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:02 PM
a fast court,indoor carpet if possible, can u imagine Nalbandian against Piggy and Pics on a slow,heavy clay court :o

Okonsky
02-13-2008, 09:04 PM
Argentina will win on #whatever# court.

Albop
02-13-2008, 09:07 PM
Argentina will win on #whatever# court.

no way , if they play in clay, spain will win

Johnny Groove
02-13-2008, 09:08 PM
Argentina will win on #whatever# court.

:rolleyes: :retard:

Jaap
02-13-2008, 09:10 PM
Only a mug nation would lay clay against Spain.














So clay it is.........

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:10 PM
Argentina should lose against Spain on clay at least a miracle happens and both Gaudio and Coria recover their tennis to have a chance.

GonzoFed
02-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Manon is a legend.

Albop
02-13-2008, 09:11 PM
:rolleyes: :retard:

this manon have a big problem in his head :retard:

casabe
02-13-2008, 09:13 PM
so if this happens i think it would be the first time argentina plays on hard at home

Adler
02-13-2008, 09:17 PM
Now that's a serious problem. As far as I know, people in Argentine treat Davis Cup VERY seriously and attendance is always admirable. That's why this big court was built in Buenos Aires. The thing is, it's clay and it would be veeery difficult to make indoor hard out of it ;)

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:19 PM
Now that's a serious problem. As far as I know, people in Argentine treat Davis Cup VERY seriously and attendance is always admirable. That's why this big court was built in Buenos Aires. The thing is, it's clay and it would be veeery difficult to make indoor hard out of it ;)

argentina can play in the luna park or in cordoba and santa fe where there are indoor courts

Adler
02-13-2008, 09:20 PM
But what's the capacity of these courts you mentioned?

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:23 PM
But what's the capacity of these courts you mentioned?

luna park is a bigger stadium than the traditional Buenos Aires law tennis, so Argentina can play there.

ufokart
02-13-2008, 09:26 PM
I'm guessing that the Luna Park has about 10000 seats.

ExcaliburII
02-13-2008, 09:28 PM
Nalbandian said in an interview that they were talking in the team about a possible final against Spain that they would play on hardcourt.

Dimonator133
02-13-2008, 09:28 PM
this manon have a big problem in his head :retard:

you think? wow what a novel idea?



who cares what surface. Both want clay. Whoever has home-court would win.

l_mac
02-13-2008, 09:29 PM
I'm not sure how much a hardcourt would help them. Apart from Nalby, their best players (right now) play best on clay.

I think Spain would be the favourites whatever the surface.

Albop
02-13-2008, 09:34 PM
you think? wow what a novel idea?






:retard:

go to the hospital with manon retard

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:35 PM
I'm not sure how much a hardcourt would help them. Apart from Nalby, their best players (right now) play best on clay.

I think Spain would be the favourites whatever the surface.

Calleri could be a pretty dangerous player on fast courts, able to beat Pics,Boredo and who knows if he could beat Piggy

Albop
02-13-2008, 09:37 PM
you think? wow what a novel idea?



who cares what surface. Both want clay. Whoever has home-court would win.

i meant to badrep you sorry ;)

Jaap
02-13-2008, 09:37 PM
When you are relying on tools such as Calleri to win you Davis cup ties, you are in trouble IMO.

l_mac
02-13-2008, 09:38 PM
Calleri could be a pretty dangerous player on fast courts, able to beat Pics,Boredo and who knows if he could beat Piggy

He could be, but he could also play like total shit and get destroyed. Who knows. Maybe by that time Del Potro will have recovered from injury and found his form. They can only meet in the final, right?

Adler
02-13-2008, 09:38 PM
Gordo really needs to bring his best to defeat the top Spaniards. Which is not that impossible, but I don't see that coming

Chela can be a good choice. He's already scored a victory over Nadal on fast hard (Cincy 03), and put up a good fight in Indian Wells last year. He's also got a good H2H against Pics

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:40 PM
Gordo really needs to bring his best to defeat the top Spaniards. Which is not that impossible, but I don't see that coming

Chela can be a good choice. He's already scored a victory over Nadal on fast hard (Cincy 03), and put up a good fight in Indian Wells last year. He's also got a good H2H against Pics

forget about chela,its Calleri,Del Pony or Cañas.Calleri should be the first option.

l_mac
02-13-2008, 09:40 PM
What about Monaco?

Adler
02-13-2008, 09:41 PM
If you say so. By the way, how's it with Canas and his injury? Anyone?

Sunset of Age
02-13-2008, 09:41 PM
Nalbandian said in an interview that they were talking in the team about a possible final against Spain that they would play on hardcourt.

I'd say Spain is the favourite here (depending on who are playing of course) even if Argentina decides for HC. Spain just has more players who, on average, are all good players. And it's not like they are all mugs on HC - I even consider Nadal as a good HC player, not to mention Ferrer, who's very good on it as well.

So, HC -> Spain will probably win
Clay - > Spain will surely win.

But I'm always open to surprises, of course. :D

ReturnWinner
02-13-2008, 09:41 PM
monaco is a decent option too

l_mac
02-13-2008, 09:44 PM
If you say so. By the way, how's it with Canas and his injury? Anyone?

I saw a pic of him training with Nalby before the DC tie :shrug: But there doesn't seem to be any news about when he's due back.

Adler
02-13-2008, 09:47 PM
It's about time. He's got a shitload of points to defend soon

Back to the main thing then. Calleri > Canas for me, backhand is the thing
Of course assuming they're both in good shape

Caralimon
02-13-2008, 09:48 PM
If you say so. By the way, how's it with Canas and his injury? Anyone?

He could be back for Acapulco, but as it's only one clay tournament he'll skip it and return in Indian Wells

elessar
02-13-2008, 10:08 PM
Frankly, it all depends on Nadal, if he does play I don't see how Argentina could chose clay. They'd basically have to start the tie down 0-2, even if they win the double, I don't see ferrer losing to both Nalbandian and Callery.
On an indoor court however Nalby would most likely get his 2 points, and it's not unconceivable that either Callery or Monaco could win a match or they'd win the double.

Even if Canas is back in form I don't think it would be a good idea to select him. He's mentally much more reliable than Callery but he's not a good match up for either Ferrer or Nadal

Nathaliia
02-13-2008, 10:14 PM
The problem for Argentina at this moment is the second singles player. Without a decent one they are going to lose even on ice.

l_mac
02-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Frankly, it all depends on Nadal, i think he might skip it again given the amount of points he's defending before and after the tie.
But if he does play I don't see how Argentina could chose clay. They'd basically have to start the tie down 0-2, even if they win the double, I don't see ferrer losing to both Nalbandian and Callery.
On an indoor court however Nalby would most likely get his 2 points, and it's not unconceivable that either Callery or Monaco could win a match or they'd win the double.

They won't play until the final, so we're just projecting here. Assuming Argentina beat Sweden then Russia or Czechs and Spain beat Germany (not a certainty) then USA or France.

Andre♥
02-13-2008, 10:26 PM
Chucho also did very well in the final in Russia on indoor hard.

stebs
02-13-2008, 11:04 PM
I'm not sure how much a hardcourt would help them. Apart from Nalby, their best players (right now) play best on clay.

Yes but it's about looking at the bigger picture.

Lets say as a whole Argentina are 7 out of 10 on HC and 8 out of 10 on clay (this is just theoretical). If Spain are 6 out of 10 on HC and 9 out of 10 on clay it is still beneficial for Argentina to play on HC though it is worse for them.

Put simply:

Nadal on clay is a beast.

Argentina should avoid the beast.

Ergo - HC.

Sunset of Age
02-13-2008, 11:13 PM
Yes but it's about looking at the bigger picture.

Lets say as a whole Argentina are 7 out of 10 on HC and 8 out of 10 on clay (this is just theoretical). If Spain are 6 out of 10 on HC and 9 out of 10 on clay it is still beneficial for Argentina to play on HC though it is worse for them.

Put simply:

Nadal on clay is a beast.

Argentina should avoid the beast.

Ergo - HC.

Agree with your analysis here, but there's more to it than just that.

Rafa, of course, is a beast on clay (I expect him to be just as good in the upcoming season as he was during 2007) - but you can't rule him out on HC either. He's actually a very good allround player, who happens to excell on clay. So I expect him to be a true force to reckon with when this tie is played on HC as well.

In the end it will all come down to whether he's playing the tie or not. Considering the fact that Argentina and Spain can only meet in the finals, I expect that he indeed will do so. :D

stebs
02-13-2008, 11:20 PM
Rafa, of course, is a beast on clay (I expect him to be just as good in the upcoming season as he was during 2007) - but you can't rule him out on HC either. He's actually a very good allround player, who happens to excell on clay. So I expect him to be a true force to reckon with when this tie is played on HC as well.

This isn;t new information but putting it like that isn't completely accurate. Nadal can win matches against most on HC for sure but he more than just excels on clay, it's not equivalent to someone like Djokovic who is good everwhere and very good on HC. Nadal is good everywhere for sure but he is FAR, FAR better on clay.

Sunset of Age
02-13-2008, 11:26 PM
This isn;t new information but putting it like that isn't completely accurate. Nadal can win matches against most on HC for sure but he more than just excels on clay, it's not equivalent to someone like Djokovic who is good everwhere and very good on HC. Nadal is good everywhere for sure but he is FAR, FAR better on clay.

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all, here. I just wanted to point out that Rafa is not merely a claycourter (or even a moonballer, as some like to dub him :o) - but in all honesty a force to be reckoned with on all surfaces. I just mean to say, he's got plenty titles on HC (be it slow or fast) and as of the past year, usually gets through up till the 4rth round or more in HC tournaments.

The only reason why people still call him a 'claycourt specialist' is that some of them tend to expect just a mite too much of him on HC, but reaching all those 4rth rounds or better isn't a bad achievement at all IMHO.

Considering the fact that he rather chose to play Rotterdam/Dubai in stead of the South American claycourt swing (i.e. easy points for the grab over there!) only indicates even the more that he wants to excell on HC just as much as anywhere else.

Stgobaiano
02-13-2008, 11:33 PM
Taraflex carpet.;)

stebs
02-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Oh, I don't disagree with you at all, here. I just wanted to point out that Rafa is not merely a claycourter (or even a moonballer, as some like to dub him :o) - but in all honesty a force to be reckoned with on all surfaces. I just mean to say, he's got plenty titles on HC (be it slow or fast) and as of the past year, usually gets through up till the 4rth round or more in HC tournaments.

The only reason why people still call him a 'claycourt specialist' is that some of them tend to expect just a mite too much of him on HC, but reaching all those 4rth rounds or better isn't a bad achievement at all IMHO.

Considering the fact that he rather chose to play Rotterdam/Dubai in stead of the South American claycourt swing (i.e. easy points for the grab over there!) only indicates even the more that he wants to excell on HC just as much as anywhere else.
:lol:

You can have your little rant at Nadal haters and it's fine by me. Changes nothing of the fact that clay is basically 2 points guarunteed if Nadal is playing and if it's HC then that's a big difference.

fenomeno2111
02-14-2008, 12:46 AM
I was wondering that and if this happens Argentina should pick a fast carpet surface....If Nalbandian is in good shape as he usually is at the end of the year (2005 & 2007 anyone?) He should be able to rack up both points against Rafa and Pics and well is up to whoever is in form in that given time to win the other point or doubles. If this happens I'll be happy with whoever wins but would prefer Argentina because Spain already won not too long ago. And there should be no debate of course they are not going to choose clay against Nadal. It would be the equivalent of choosing grass against Federer...pointless!

Sunset of Age
02-14-2008, 12:54 AM
:lol:

You can have your little rant at Nadal haters and it's fine by me. Changes nothing of the fact that clay is basically 2 points guarunteed if Nadal is playing and if it's HC then that's a big difference.

:angel: did I say anything that doesn't match with what you say just here?
The basic point is whether he'll play or not, given ANY surface. :D
And I think he will if there's a DC Championship on stake. ;)

Okonsky
02-14-2008, 01:07 AM
Manon is a legend.

Grazie:cool:

Still, Argentina will win for sure :p

Action Jackson
02-14-2008, 01:39 AM
Here is what people are forgetting Chucho and Calleri have never let anyone down in Davis Cup when there has been something on the line. Any clown who takes dead rubber results seriously, that is as bad as taking exho results seriously.

Acasuso did very well against Safin on a very fast indoor surface away from home.

Chela no chance at all.

Last time they met Argentina had a 3rd string squad and and Spain had their strongest team, yet they took it to a 5th match.

This thread should be locked until after the semi finals of DC have been complete.

Merton
02-14-2008, 01:47 AM
This question will become relevant if the semis are Argentina-Russia and Spain-USA. This is a big if, the Czechs, Germany and France all have good to very good chances in the quarterfinal ties.

jayjay
02-14-2008, 02:14 AM
I think Spain would be the favourites whatever the surface.

No one is beating us at home. I'd have thought you'd have known that, lmac. ;)

jayjay
02-14-2008, 02:16 AM
When you are relying on tools such as Calleri to win you Davis cup ties, you are in trouble IMO.

The same tool who battered Ferrero in Malaga. :hatoff:

Action Jackson
02-14-2008, 02:24 AM
The same tool who battered Ferrero in Malaga. :hatoff:

When Ferrero was at his best.

Bad Religion
02-14-2008, 02:29 AM
Spain should rip Argentina a new one on red clay , green clay , hard , indoor , grass , taraflex , ice

tripb19
02-14-2008, 02:36 AM
When are the next set of DC ties?

ChinoRios4Ever
02-14-2008, 04:06 AM
Nobody say nothing about Cañas, he could be a good choice too in singles

Action Jackson
02-14-2008, 04:08 AM
Nobody say nothing about Cañas, he could be a good choice too in singles

Against Nadal on Day 1, then the answer would be no.

Ferrero Forever
02-14-2008, 04:26 AM
If they played on hard, Spain would kick their ass. On clay, at least it would be closer, and Argentina would have to show up better on the day and actually beat Spain at their own game, which could happen. Thats given that the top 4 Argentines and Spaniards play.

Johnny Groove
02-14-2008, 04:28 AM
Gordo really needs to bring his best to defeat the top Spaniards. Which is not that impossible, but I don't see that coming

Chela can be a good choice. He's already scored a victory over Nadal on fast hard (Cincy 03), and put up a good fight in Indian Wells last year. He's also got a good H2H against Pics

Yeah, thats relevent :rolleyes:

I can totally see Chela beating Nadal over 5 sets on hard :rolleyes:

Here is what people are forgetting Chucho and Calleri have never let anyone down in Davis Cup when there has been something on the line. Any clown who takes dead rubber results seriously, that is as bad as taking exho results seriously.

Acasuso did very well against Safin on a very fast indoor surface away from home.

Chela no chance at all.

Last time they met Argentina had a 3rd string squad and and Spain had their strongest team, yet they took it to a 5th match.

This thread should be locked until after the semi finals of DC have been complete.

With the way Pics has been playing recntly, i cant see how he or Nadal will lose on hard to anyone other that Dave. Lets say they split with Dave so its 1-1. I dont see either of them losing to Calleri or Chucho.

ChinoRios4Ever
02-14-2008, 04:29 AM
Against Nadal on Day 1, then the answer would be no.

and playing the 5th match, with the tie 2-2? :p

Action Jackson
02-14-2008, 04:32 AM
and playing the 5th match, with the tie 2-2? :p

Whose to say it will get that far.

Action Jackson
02-14-2008, 04:37 AM
With the way Pics has been playing recntly, i cant see how he or Nadal will lose on hard to anyone other that Dave. Lets say they split with Dave so its 1-1. I dont see either of them losing to Calleri or Chucho.

You think Ferrer is going to keep this level up? There'd be no surprises if he isn't playing to a level lower than he has been.

Acasuso has a very good record against Ferrer. This is not a regular tour event and Acasuso has shown a very good DC temperament and he has already played in a DC final away from home something Ferrer hasn't.

Going to win Argentina is not exactly easy and in this case, this where home crowd does help. Last time Nadal played in Buenos Aires when the crowd got on his case, he shat himself and badly.

Like I said this thread really should be locked and only opened after the SFs.

Lee
02-14-2008, 04:45 AM
:yawn:

Enjoy Incubus
02-14-2008, 05:26 AM
Argentina has no chance on clay at whatever part of the world if Nadal and Ferrer play. BUT, you all have seen Nalby's form in hard last year-end. AND Monaco's form in last year USO in the match against Djokovic was way too good. SO, Spain has so many little chances of beating Argentina if Nalby and Monaco play, again, at whatever part of the world. Even Cañas in hard would be unbeatable for them both (Nadal & Ferrer).

jayjay
02-14-2008, 03:40 PM
With the way Pics has been playing recntly, i cant see how he or Nadal will lose on hard to anyone other that Dave. Lets say they split with Dave so its 1-1. I dont see either of them losing to Calleri or Chucho.

Only the Davis Cup Final is in November.

If you think that Argentina couldn't beat Spain on hard in Argentina then more fool you.

Nalbandian bt Nadal & Ferrer + Argentina win doubles is more than a possibility.

Nalbandian bt Ferrer + Argentina win doubles + Canas bt Ferrer is also more than a possibility.

We could beat them on clay too even accounting for two Nadal wins.

Nalbandian bt Ferrer + Argentina doubles + either of Monaco/Canas/Acasuso/Calleri bt Ferrer

Easily doable. First Spain have to get to the final, which is by no means a certainty. If we don't make the final, I'll go down on Anne Widdicombe.

l_mac
02-14-2008, 03:57 PM
No one is beating us at home. I'd have thought you'd have known that, lmac. ;)
I would rather Argentina won, but player for player Spain are better. Having said that, I think Spain have more chances to lose before the Final than Argentina do.

Easily doable. First Spain have to get to the final, which is by no means a certainty. If we don't make the final, I'll go down on Anne Widdicombe.
I don't think Anne allows people access. :lol:

lorenz
02-14-2008, 04:01 PM
so if this happens i think it would be the first time argentina plays on hard at home

You are right !!
It's incredible, if we could have Coria and Gaudio fine...

Kitty de Sade
02-14-2008, 04:08 PM
Yeah, thats relevent :rolleyes:

I can totally see Chela beating Nadal over 5 sets on hard :rolleyes:

Didn't we just talk about this? You promised me that you would stop picking on Chela....at least until the end of the month. Don't be a bogart. :fiery: :p

jayjay
02-14-2008, 04:15 PM
I would rather Argentina won, but player for player Spain are better.

Are they?

On the tour year round, yes. But in one on one contests? I don't see how some people think Spain would walk all over us in Argentina. :lol:

Hilarious, to be honest.

Hard
Nalbandian-Nadal 2-0
Nalbandian-Ferrer 3-2
Canas-Nadal 0-0
Canas-Ferrer 0-0
Monaco-Nadal 1-0 (due to retirement)
Monaco-Ferrer 0-1
Acasuso-Nadal 0-0
Acasuso-Ferrer 1-0
Calleri-Nadal 1-0
Calleri-Ferrer 2-2

Nalbandian would be the dominant player in this scenario. We'd expect 2pts from him, but that doesn't mean it would be easy or a given. In that case we'd need either a doubles win or our no2 to beat Ferrer. How can anyone look at these one on one match ups and think it's not possible in Argentina. :lol:


Clay
Nalbandian-Nadal 0-0
Nalbandian-Ferrer 0-4
Canas-Nadal 0-3
Canas-Ferrer 0-0
Monaco-Nadal 0-2
Monaco-Ferrer 2-0
Acasuso-Nadal 0-2
Acasuso-Ferrer 3-3
Calleri-Nadal 0-3
Calleri-Ferrer 0-1

Obviously, Nadal is the dominant force here and would be expected to take two points. Ferrer has a great clay court record against Nalbandian, but if there are people out there who think Nalbandian couldn't put it together against Ferrer on clay in Argentina and be in with at least a 50/50 chance, then again :lol: . We'd need the doubles. And then we'd need a win off Ferrer and either Chucho or Pico would be capable of that.

To read some people in the thread, you'd think Spain would do Argentina 5-0 anywhere in the world on any surface. Quite funny when you consider they may not even get past Germany to begin with. :p

Bloodletting
02-14-2008, 04:37 PM
I would like to see how Nadal reacts to a really HARSH enviroment. I don't recall any situation where he has been put with 15.000 untolerant fans. I think that Argies have a chance even on clay. It is not like Nadal will feed from the hostility like El Lleyton.

shotgun
02-14-2008, 04:56 PM
I don't think Spain will make the final, tbh. Argentina should be more worried about possible finals against France or Germany - away.

jayjay
02-14-2008, 05:16 PM
I would like to see how Nadal reacts to a really HARSH enviroment. I don't recall any situation where he has been put with 15.000 untolerant fans. I think that Argies have a chance even on clay. It is not like Nadal will feed from the hostility like El Lleyton.

Nadal has played in that environment, against Gaudio in BA 2005. Gaudio won in 3 one sided sets. There were some great points in the match and games were more competitive than the set scores suggest.

Merton
02-14-2008, 08:37 PM
I don't think Spain will make the final, tbh. Argentina should be more worried about possible finals against France or Germany - away.

Agree, just add the possibility of Argentina facing the Czechs in the semis, again away.

Sunset of Age
02-14-2008, 09:59 PM
In the end, it will all come down to the One (okay, two) Question: will Rafa and/or Pics play or not. :angel:

Considering that IF this match will happen, it'll be the final, I'd say YES -> Spain will most probably be the DC winner. I even put money on it. :)

l_mac
02-14-2008, 10:13 PM
Are they?

On the tour year round, yes. But in one on one contests? I don't see how some people think Spain would walk all over us in Argentina. :lol:

Hilarious, to be honest.

Hard
Nalbandian-Nadal 2-0
Nalbandian-Ferrer 3-2
Canas-Nadal 0-0
Canas-Ferrer 0-0
Monaco-Nadal 1-0 (due to retirement)
Monaco-Ferrer 0-1
Acasuso-Nadal 0-0
Acasuso-Ferrer 1-0
Calleri-Nadal 1-0
Calleri-Ferrer 2-2

Nalbandian would be the dominant player in this scenario. We'd expect 2pts from him, but that doesn't mean it would be easy or a given. In that case we'd need either a doubles win or our no2 to beat Ferrer. How can anyone look at these one on one match ups and think it's not possible in Argentina. :lol:


Clay
Nalbandian-Nadal 0-0
Nalbandian-Ferrer 0-4
Canas-Nadal 0-3
Canas-Ferrer 0-0
Monaco-Nadal 0-2
Monaco-Ferrer 2-0
Acasuso-Nadal 0-2
Acasuso-Ferrer 3-3
Calleri-Nadal 0-3
Calleri-Ferrer 0-1

Obviously, Nadal is the dominant force here and would be expected to take two points. Ferrer has a great clay court record against Nalbandian, but if there are people out there who think Nalbandian couldn't put it together against Ferrer on clay in Argentina and be in with at least a 50/50 chance, then again :lol: . We'd need the doubles. And then we'd need a win off Ferrer and either Chucho or Pico would be capable of that.

To read some people in the thread, you'd think Spain would do Argentina 5-0 anywhere in the world on any surface. Quite funny when you consider they may not even get past Germany to begin with. :p

As you were replying to my post, I hope you're not including me in the "people who think Spain would do ..." :ras: