Hawkeye abuse (guess who's the worst abuser) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Hawkeye abuse (guess who's the worst abuser)

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:26 AM
Australian Open has decided to name and shame the worst offenders and Roger Federer is in the bottom 10 of 41 players.

Djokovic achieved a success rate of 60% and Nadal had 73% success rate, both of which are exceptional. Nadal and Djokovic made the Top 10 and are in reality ranked 1 and 2 as the players above them made so few challenges and/or were eliminated early in the tournament that their results are statistically insignificant.

Federer made 21 challenges on his route to the semis and was correct ONLY ON 5 occasions (23.8% success rate). No wonder Federer was against it. He either makes those terrible challenges to break the opponents momentum (which worked against Tipsarevic) or he needs his eyes examined.

Most people on MTF will accuse Novak for lack of sportsmanship (ball bouncing, medicals etc.), hell even Federer did, but he should take a better look at some of his own actions.


here's the link

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/scores/challenge/index.html

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:27 AM
sorry...I meant one of the worst abusers

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 10:28 AM
Who cares? :zzz:

Remove Fed from your siggy you pathetic hater...

my0118
02-01-2008, 10:29 AM
still AO hangover?

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:30 AM
I love when it Fedtards get defensive.

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 10:32 AM
I love when it Fedtards get defensive.

I love it when haters make storm in a teacup.

CooCooCachoo
02-01-2008, 10:32 AM
Roger :lol:

But he played every single match on that court with Hawkeye. You can hardly make a fair comparison if not all players played an equal amount of matches on court with Hawkeye coverage.

CooCooCachoo
02-01-2008, 10:33 AM
BTW note how Ana Ivanovic has an even worse record.

fangirl
02-01-2008, 10:34 AM
I love when it Fedtards get defensive.

Me too. Fedtards are a source of constant amusement :)

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:34 AM
Roger :lol:

But he played every single match on that court with Hawkeye. You can hardly make a fair comparison if not all players played an equal amount of matches on court with Hawkeye coverage.

I know that, I was just comparing him to top 3, all of which played on main courts.

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:36 AM
BTW note how Ana Ivanovic has an even worse record.

True

General Suburbia
02-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Old news. Ever since hawk eye came out, Federer's been using that thing like crazy. With very little success, I might add.

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 10:37 AM
I know that, I was just comparing him to top 3, all of which played on main courts.

Your point being? Nadal and Djokovic are angels while Federer is a sore loser/cheater?

We get it now, time to move on and get a life ;)

*bunny*
02-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Someone should tell Federer that some of his challenges were so pathetic they made him look really stupid, even taking into account that he's been against the Hawkeye from the beginning.
Three challenges per set were one too many IMO, giving players chances not only to challenge the calls they thought were wrong, but also to challenge it just to check the call was correct, or to get time to regroup or disrupt the opponent's rhythm in worst cases.

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:40 AM
Your point being? Nadal and Djokovic are angels while Federer is a sore loser/cheater?

We get it now, time to move on and get a life ;)

No...Novak has his moments and he's criticized all the time and nobody ever talks about Roger. Taking a "fake" medical to change momentum is no different to making ridiculous challenges. Both are done to achieve the same result. Fed is no stranger to sportsmanship himself.

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 10:45 AM
No...my point is the opposite. Fed is no stranger to sportsmanship himself.

Ok I get it.

Yesterday you showed us he was an arrogant and sore loser and today you show us he's a cheater as well.

Guess tomorrow you'll make a thread about how he's responsible of the world's starving...

scoobs
02-01-2008, 10:46 AM
It's funny about Roger with Hawkeye because he is either very right or very wrong. I've seen a couple of matches where he challenged repeatedly and got nearly every challenge spot on, overturning calls. But these are few and far between. More often, he is pretty useless and just challenges willy nilly and when you see the replay, the ball is so far away from the line that the line isn't even shown on the screen.

zcess81
02-01-2008, 10:49 AM
It's funny about Roger with Hawkeye because he is either very right or very wrong. I've seen a couple of matches where he challenged repeatedly and got nearly every challenge spot on, overturning calls. But these are few and far between. More often, he is pretty useless and just challenges willy nilly and when you see the replay, the ball is so far away from the line that the line isn't even shown on the screen.

I cringe every time that happens. He doesn't look embarrassed when it happens though.

my0118
02-01-2008, 10:58 AM
No...Novak has his moments and he's criticized all the time and nobody ever talks about Roger. Taking a "fake" medical to change momentum is no different to making ridiculous challenges. Both are done to achieve the same result. Fed is no stranger to sportsmanship himself.

Hello Celine Dion. :)

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 11:03 AM
:haha: another pissed off Celine Dion fan :o :p

zcess81
02-01-2008, 11:13 AM
:haha: another pissed off Celine Dion fan :o :p

Now that was uncalled-for!

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 11:17 AM
Now that was uncalled-for!

:lol: relax... don't get defensive, let that to Fedtards ;)

zcess81
02-01-2008, 11:20 AM
:lol: relax... don't get defensive, let that to Fedtards ;)

I was just kidding...it takes alot more than that to piss me off.

Avid Merrion
02-01-2008, 11:27 AM
Roger :lol:

But he played every single match on that court with Hawkeye. You can hardly make a fair comparison if not all players played an equal amount of matches on court with Hawkeye coverage.

yes, but that doesn't change the fact that out of 21 challenges he was only right 5 times does it? that's a pretty poor stat in anyone's book.

unless of course Roger does it on purpose as some sort of protest against Hawkeye....:angel:

decrepitude
02-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Actually, I did wonder at the AO whether Fed was starting to have eye problems. That might be part of the reason for his drop in form.

Get some specs, Roger!

Lleyton_
02-01-2008, 11:33 AM
That's why Djokovic needs to be put in his place. The arrogance of his fans is killing me :rolleyes: Soon they will have to face the truth, i.e clay :devil:

Bibberz
02-01-2008, 11:34 AM
It makes sense that Federer would challenge so often. As far as I know, he doesn't look to Mirka or anyone else in his box to receive signals regarding whether he should challenge a particular call. He makes more challenges as a result and, not surprisingly, is wrong more often than other players.

Zaba
02-01-2008, 11:36 AM
Rafa and Uncle Toni have fantastic eyesight :devil:

zcess81
02-01-2008, 11:36 AM
That's why Djokovic needs to be put in his place. The arrogance of his fans is killing me :rolleyes: Soon they will have to face the truth, i.e clay :devil:

hahahhaah arrogance...that comes from Hewitt supporter!

Bibberz
02-01-2008, 11:42 AM
No! If Roger got Tipsy-like glasses he would be even more unstoppable. He'd sweep all the remaining slams, Masters tournaments, the Olympics, and the TMC. I just don't think I could bear such domination....


Actually, I did wonder at the AO whether Fed was starting to have eye problems. That might be part of the reason for his drop in form.

Get some specs, Roger!

DDrago2
02-01-2008, 12:06 PM
Djokovic achieved a success rate of 60% and Nadal had 73% success rate, both of which are exceptional.

Federer made 21 challenges on his route to the semis and was correct ONLY ON 5 occasions (23.8% success rate).

You think this is by accident? No, ATP helps Nadal and Djokovic via Hawkeye also
Federer is from the other side getting robbed so he lost belief in this system and that is why he challenges so nervously

zcess81
02-01-2008, 12:10 PM
You think this is by accident? No, ATP helps Nadal and Djokovic via Hawkeye also
Federer is from the other side getting robbed so he lost belief in this system and that is why he challenges so nervously

explain?

tennis2tennis
02-01-2008, 12:17 PM
oh my god he incorrectly used hawk eye bring out the firing squad..... he doesn't break the rules which say you should take more than 20 seconds to serve...he doesn't fake injury when the momentum is with the opposition, doesn't exaggerate celebrations nor does he have hooligans for family members he's got a long way before he reaches some people's standards...

Stroba
02-01-2008, 12:23 PM
It makes sense that Federer would challenge so often. As far as I know, he doesn't look to Mirka or anyone else in his box to receive signals regarding whether he should challenge a particular call. He makes more challenges as a result and, not surprisingly, is wrong more often than other players.

I think you have a point here. Without mentioning any names I´m quite sure there are lots of players not really making the challenges themselves, rather waiting for confirmation from his entourage before challenging. And of course it helps if there are more than 2 eyes following the ball.
Maybe players should be forced to challenge immediately?

Zaba
02-01-2008, 12:23 PM
You think this is by accident? No, ATP helps Nadal and Djokovic via Hawkeye also
Federer is from the other side getting robbed so he lost belief in this system and that is why he challenges so nervously

Nole and Rafa are each fitted with a special earpiece through which Mr Disney whispers his instructions.

Also, 20/20 vision is a little-known side effect of narcissism. Poor roger :sad:

scarecrows
02-01-2008, 12:26 PM
zcess for president

Sean.J.S.
02-01-2008, 12:33 PM
BTW note how Ana Ivanovic has an even worse record.

Yes...did you see that challenge she made in the final? The ball was 30cm in. :tape:

Lleyton_
02-01-2008, 12:41 PM
hahahhaah arrogance...that comes from Hewitt supporter!

What makes you think I'm a Hewitt 'supporter'?

zcess81
02-01-2008, 01:13 PM
oh my god he incorrectly used hawk eye bring out the firing squad..... he doesn't break the rules which say you should take more than 20 seconds to serve...he doesn't fake injury when the momentum is with the opposition, doesn't exaggerate celebrations nor does he have hooligans for family members he's got a long way before he reaches some people's standards...

Novak doesn't brake the rules by taking a medical (faking or not faking), he doesn't brake the rule with ball bouncing etc...two can play that game.

zcess81
02-01-2008, 01:15 PM
Nole and Rafa are each fitted with a special earpiece through which Mr Disney whispers his instructions.

Also, 20/20 vision is a little-known side effect of narcissism. Poor roger :sad:

hahahhahhahahah that's what I was thinking.

bokehlicious
02-01-2008, 01:16 PM
Novak doesn't brake the rules by taking a medical (faking or not faking), he doesn't brake the rule with ball bouncing etc...two can play that game.

He does break them when he takes a minute to serve :)

zcess81
02-01-2008, 01:22 PM
He does break them when he takes a minute to serve :)

People really do exaggerate! Almost 100% of the time he's within the time limit. Most people complain about THE BALL BOUNCING and not the time he takes. When he takes more than 20 secs to serve (and it does happen) it's up the the umpire to penalize him...nothing to do with Novak...and he has been penalized on several occasions.

fangirl
02-01-2008, 01:22 PM
Nole and Rafa are each fitted with a special earpiece through which Mr Disney whispers his instructions.

Also, 20/20 vision is a little-known side effect of narcissism. Poor roger :sad:

Thats unfair! I also have narcissism yet I don't have 20/20 vision or even anything close to it thanks to my myopia.

star
02-01-2008, 03:10 PM
Roger :lol:

But he played every single match on that court with Hawkeye. You can hardly make a fair comparison if not all players played an equal amount of matches on court with Hawkeye coverage.

I think Djokovic and Nadal played all of their matches on courts with Hawkeye. They had Hawkeye on two courts. Actually the comparison would be fairly good even if you are right because they take percentage of the challenges to make their claim. So all you have to do is to look at the number of challenges made to see how many challenges were made rather than look at the number of matches played on Hawkeye enable courts.

RagingLamb
02-01-2008, 03:25 PM
The very fact that someone is against hawkeye seems a little odd to me.

Sure, at first, such as with any newly implemented rule, maybe the umpires will have some trouble with it. I think this is Roger's main complaint. But over time that should go away, and there is no question about the importance of the challenge system.

By the way, something I noticed but might be my imagination: I think the lines judges and umpires get a lot of calls wrong in favor of Federer.

I think their bias towards him affects their judgement.

Pea
02-01-2008, 03:28 PM
LOL, it's so funny everytime he would challenge. You could tell he was embarrass everytime after he lost the challenge.

tangerine_dream
02-01-2008, 03:39 PM
"Challenge......CHALLENGE I SAID."

:scared: :bolt:

Black Adam
02-01-2008, 03:47 PM
The Djokotards strike back. :yeah:

zcess81
02-01-2008, 03:49 PM
"Challenge......CHALLENGE I SAID."

:scared: :bolt:

that was funny as hell...he was clearly pissed off. And Mirka biting her nails was priceless!

tennis2tennis
02-01-2008, 03:49 PM
Novak doesn't brake the rules by taking a medical (faking or not faking), he doesn't brake the rule with ball bouncing etc...two can play that game.


yes he does break the rules why would he have got a warning from the umpire during the roger match if he didn't break the rule in the time duration of motion before serve?

and although he didn't break the rules in his injury timeout he did fake the injury don't take my opinion Mats Wilander, John Newcombe and John McEnroe said he was faking the injury during the Tsonga match...

it was the behaviour which initially pissed Roger off during their Davis Cup tie when Novak acted like his left thigh was killing him only to immediately start running seconds later...

l_mac
02-01-2008, 03:54 PM
You think this is by accident? No, ATP helps Nadal and Djokovic via Hawkeye also
Federer is from the other side getting robbed so he lost belief in this system and that is why he challenges so nervously

:haha: :haha: :haha:

You're hysterical.

Nole and Rafa are each fitted with a special earpiece through which Mr Disney whispers his instructions.


:lol:

zcess81
02-01-2008, 03:56 PM
yes he does break the rules why would he have got a warning from the umpire during the roger match if he didn't break the rule in the time duration of motion before serve?

and although he didn't break the rules in his injury timeout he did fake the injury don't take my opinion Mats Wilander, John Newcombe and John McEnroe said he was faking the injury during the Tsonga match...

it was the behaviour which initially pissed Roger off during their Davis Cup tie when Novak acted like his left thigh was killing him only to immediately start running seconds later...

ok...first opinions of those you mentioned are just that...opinions. Only one person knows what they did and why, and that's Novak. Second...Mats Wilander talks SHIT, I mean it's embarrassing! Did you hear his comments about Tsonga??? I mean, yeah the guy played great and deserved to be in the finals, but Wilander pretty much came to a conclusion that he's the next Federer???!!! 5 year old kid who's never watched a tennis match has more common sense than that guy!

tennis2tennis
02-01-2008, 04:07 PM
ok...first opinions of those you mentioned are just that...opinions. Only one person knows what they did and why, and that's Novak. Second...Mats Wilander talks SHIT, I mean it's embarrassing! Did you hear his comments about Tsonga??? I mean, yeah the guy played great and deserved to be in the finals, but Wilander pretty much came to a conclusion that he's the next Federer???!!! 5 year old kid who's never watched a tennis match has more common sense than that guy!

OK what about John Newcombe and John McEnroe they're talking shit too about nole's behaviour? It's those little things that tick people off..

DDrago2
02-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Nole and Rafa are each fitted with a special earpiece through which Mr Disney whispers his instructions.

Also, 20/20 vision is a little-known side effect of narcissism. Poor roger :sad:

well my post was half-joke, but only half... Challenging system is untransparent, you never get the chance to actualy see the ball on slow motion. HOw do we now they don't 'adjust' it on important points to increase chance of the desired result? When the ball is close to the line they might do this, no? Or I'm ill infomed... I don't know what that system actualy is, I mean who controls it etc.

zcess81
02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
OK what about John Newcombe and John McEnroe they're talking shit too about nole's behaviour? It's those little things that tick people off..

John McEnroe is THE LAST PERSON IN THE WORLD TO COMMENT ON BAD BEHAVIOR!

zcess81
02-01-2008, 04:17 PM
well my post was half-joke, but only half... Challenging system is untransparent, you never get the chance to actualy see the ball on slow motion. HOw do we now they don't 'adjust' it on important points to increase chance of the desired result? When the ball is close to the line they might do this, no? Or I'm ill infomed... I don't know what that system actualy is, I mean who controls it etc.

:smash: yeah, there's a monkey in the control booth guessing where the ball hit.

tennizen
02-01-2008, 04:21 PM
I know the OP is probably provoking but I think Fed does use challenges to upset the rhythm. The commentator mentioned it in the Berdych match. And I think Nadal did it too in Wimbledon final. However, with Djokovic injury timeouts are more obvious. If he runs like a rabbit after the injury timeout then people are going to get mad. With challenges, you can be proven wrong/lose the point and the challenger can end up being embarrassed.

Foxy
02-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Some people will criticize me but I made up an interesting theory why Roger hates the hawk-eye system.
One of our commentators, after a very wrong call of a linesman about Roger's serve, said that maybe linesmen are afraid to give the ball against Federer if it is close. (Note: I have always known this commentator as a Fed-friendly one. He always gives him credit where it's due, once he even said Fed insipires him to play well up until a week after he have watched him)
So my theory is Fed consciously or subconsciosly knows the linesmen is little afraid to call against him. They are quite a few examples about doubtful calls of Roger's serve.
The other reason I see is maybe the error range of the system. What was that? 3mm? Human eye has by far greater error range. (Excluding clay where you can look as closer the ball as you want)

Metis
02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
You think this is by accident? No, ATP helps Nadal and Djokovic via Hawkeye also
Federer is from the other side getting robbed so he lost belief in this system and that is why he challenges so nervously

:haha: excellent!

well my post was half-joke, but only half... Challenging system is untransparent, you never get the chance to actualy see the ball on slow motion. HOw do we now they don't 'adjust' it on important points to increase chance of the desired result? When the ball is close to the line they might do this, no? Or I'm ill infomed... I don't know what that system actualy is, I mean who controls it etc.

No doubt uncle Toni has hired professional hackers to interfere with Hawkeye :cool:.



Since everyone has given their ...interesting opinions about this, I'll give it a try too.
When Federer gets really pissed off during a match he takes it all out on Hawkeye. Why? Because he is still annoyed they ignored his opinion not to implement it in matches :p. Besides they cannot fine him for stupid use of the challenge system.

barbadosan
02-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Some people will criticize me but I made up an interesting theory why Roger hates the hawk-eye system.
One of our commentators, after a very wrong call of a linesman about Roger's serve, said that maybe linesmen are afraid to give the ball against Federer if it is close. (Note: I have always known this commentator as a Fed-friendly one. He always gives him credit where it's due, once he even said Fed insipires him to play well up until a week after he have watched him)
So my theory is Fed consciously or subconsciosly knows the linesmen is little afraid to call against him. They are quite a few examples about doubtful calls of Roger's serve.
The other reason I see is maybe the error range of the system. What was that? 3mm? Human eye has by far greater error range. (Excluding clay where you can look as closer the ball as you want)

And your theory when the linesman calls the ball out wrongly is...?

Deivid23
02-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Wear some fucking glasses, Roger, you tool

Corey Feldman
02-01-2008, 07:39 PM
No...Novak has his moments and he's criticized all the time and nobody ever talks about Roger. Taking a "fake" medical to change momentum is no different to making ridiculous challenges. Both are done to achieve the same result. Fed is no stranger to sportsmanship himself.Comparing a bad challenge, which still only wastes a few seconds, to Nole's 3 minute time outs for having a sore pinky toe or an itchy arse injury

wow, terrific stuff :o

my own view of Fed's stupid challenging is he does it when he's in a bad mood ... his attitude sucks but his behaviour on court has been going downhill since early 2007.

tennis2tennis
02-01-2008, 07:47 PM
John McEnroe is THE LAST PERSON IN THE WORLD TO COMMENT ON BAD BEHAVIOR!

no he's the first person to comment about bad behaviour because if anyone could recognise it its him...

Tnn74
02-01-2008, 10:07 PM
"challenge... CHALLENGE, I SAID!"
:lol: 5 out of 21, keep 'em comin' Roger! :yeah:

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 10:12 PM
He's only hurting himself by doing those stupid challenges... :shrug:

I've suggested him to get some new contacts quite often here. :angel:

NinaNina19
02-01-2008, 10:19 PM
I honestly think Roger is just bad at challenging. He's never used Nole-like tactics in his career before the challenge system, why would he start now?

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 10:34 PM
I honestly think Roger is just bad at challenging.

Well, it's no secret that he doesn't like the system at all. And from what I saw during the AO, I think he has a point there as I too thought that at times the linesmen/women looked sort-of lazy, in the verge of 'well the players can always challenge if we don't do well, eh..?'

But as Mikey said: it looks like Roger often makes those very bad challenges when he's somewhat pissed off - by his own playing mostly. No surprise, as I tend to believe that those are just indications of his former head-case attitude rearing its ugly head again. He's still just human folks, and certainly not as cold-blooded as many seem to think. :cool:

Corey Feldman
02-01-2008, 10:38 PM
Karin, Stevie Wonder would get more challenges correct than Roger ;)

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 10:46 PM
Karin, Stevie Wonder would get more challenges correct than Roger ;)

:lol: - I think I contributed something like that to the 'tennis books not likely to sell'-thread:

Succesfully Challenging - by Roger Federer, with a foreword by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles...

NinaNina19
02-01-2008, 10:48 PM
I just noticed Andy does not have too good of a challenge record himself.

Or Levy
02-01-2008, 11:15 PM
When Roger is playing well, he's challanging well. (Think AO 2007, in the match vs Roddick. Loads of challanges, got them all right, Andy was going to shoot hinself)

When he's not, he tends to make hasty, grudge-challanges against the system.

I kinda like his grumpy challanges, but not when he eventually loses the match.

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 11:17 PM
When Roger is playing well, he's challanging well. (Think AO 2007, in the match vs Roddick. Loads of challanges, got them all right, Andy was going to shoot hinself)

When he's not, he tends to make hasty, grudge-challanges against the system.

I kinda like his grumpy challanges, but not when he eventually loses the match.

Fully agree.
It offers us a glimpse of the 'Friendly VULCANO' that Roger still is till date. Cool, reserved, but watch out - an eruption might well take place anytime anywhere...
(some journalist in the Dutch newspaper NRC dubbed him like that after Wimbly 2007 - and I think it's spot-on).

Castafiore
02-01-2008, 11:25 PM
I read an article about it this week (I think it's L'Equipe but I'm not sure...I didn't keep the newspaper so sorry, no link or scan) in an article about Hawkeye being used as a new timewasting method.

They figured that Roger was making some very odd challenges, for points that weren't up for debate at all. After studying the timing of his challenges and for what sort of line decisions, they came to the conclusion that it most probably has nothing to do with an actual challenge but it's a nifty method (without an umpire breathing down your neck pointing at the time) to take a short breather (he often does it at the end of the set) or a short moment to regroup and try and gain full control of the situation again.


** Cue, JM **

Or Levy
02-01-2008, 11:27 PM
I agree, he's not the 'ice man' naturally, I believe he has to work on that every day, every second of every match. As he said in an interview when asked about his parents pushing him -
"They didn't have to, I was self-critical enough for the three of us"

I also think that another one of his 'self created monsters' is that people are so used to low-key behavior from him, he really can't smash a racquet on center court anywhere, on the other hand his hatred of hawkeye is already a well established, legend. Roger vs. Hawkeye is something people have grown to expect and look forward to -
so he takes his frustrations on the system, because he can do that without end up looking like a jerk.

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 11:29 PM
I read an article about it this week (I think it's L'Equipe but I'm not sure...I didn't keep the newspaper so sorry, no link or scan) in an article about Hawkeye being used as a new timewasting method.

They figured that Roger was making some very odd challenges, for points that weren't up for debate at all. After studying the timing of his challenges and for what sort of line decisions, they came to the conclusion that it most probably has nothing to do with an actual challenge but it's a nifty method (without an umpire breathing down your neck pointing at the time) to take a short breather (he often does it at the end of the set) or a short moment to regroup and try and gain full control of the situation again.

Could well be.
His challenges ARE very odd, especially when he's apparently pissed-off with his playing level. And we all know how much he's pissed-off with the challenging system anyhow - might well be that he indeed abuses it at times to 1) show his disapproval with it, and 2) taking advantage of it by both regaining some momentum AND show why it's a bad idea altogether all in one move.

Doesn't make it any better - I really wish he wouldn't act this way.
Even more, whenever I get the impression Roger is being grumpy and challenges during a match, I cringe.

Or Levy
02-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Doesn't make it any better - I really wish he wouldn't act this way.
Even more, whenever I get the impression Roger is being grumpy and challenges during a match, I cringe.

Yup, I'm thinking "Here we go again".
Is he just hoping the system to be wrong so he could use it as proof? Ever since Wimby, his challanges are getting more and more absurd.

Sunset of Age
02-01-2008, 11:43 PM
Yup, I'm thinking "Here we go again".
Is he just hoping the system to be wrong so he could use it as proof? Ever since Wimby, his challanges are getting more and more absurd.

I sometimes get that impression, yes. If anything, I hope he'll be able to STOP it - not just because he looks like a fool when doing so, but even more because it apparently shows his mental weakness at those times. Not a good message to send to one's opponent, no...? :shrug:

Skyward
02-01-2008, 11:52 PM
but it's a nifty method (without an umpire breathing down your neck pointing at the time) to take a short breather (he often does it at the end of the set)


Yeah, umpires are so strict about time violations these days...

Or Levy
02-02-2008, 12:01 AM
I sometimes get that impression, yes. If anything, I hope he'll be able to STOP it - not just because he looks like a fool when doing so, but even more because it apparently shows his mental weakness at those times. Not a good message to send to one's opponent, no...? :shrug:

In one of his last pressers, I think during the Berdych or the Blake match he ran out of them, and said that he wanted to use them all before the set was over, so he wouldn't have any regrets.

That's a reasonable explanation as any, I guess. I think he challanges whenever he have even the slightest doubt, and he IS one of the only players who NEVER look at their box for confirmation.

Castafiore
02-02-2008, 12:02 AM
Yeah, umpires are so strict about time violations these days...
Well, some of the players do get time warnings and other people keep on commenting about it so it's a nifty method to avoid all that, no? :)

Sunset of Age
02-02-2008, 12:05 AM
In one of his last pressers, I think during the Berdych or the Blake match he said that he wanted to use them all before the set was over, so he wouldn't have any regrets.

I'm willing to believe him, here. Still I think he also does so just to show his grudges against the system. Which I don't blame him for, he has every right to hold his opinions, but I do wish he'd tone it down a bit at times.

That's a reasonable explanation as any, I guess. I think he challanges whenever he have even the slightest doubt, and he IS one of the only players who NEVER look at their box for confirmation.

Yep, noticed that. At least he has the guts to stand up for his OWN decisions, however silly they sometimes seem to be. :worship:

Or Levy
02-02-2008, 12:12 AM
I think it just makes him more prone to silly mistakes other players would never make because they get to her the "Way out" mouthed to them + head shakes from their box.

But generally speaking, I'm with you - less challlanges for Roger could only agree with him, though I am usually entertained by them.

trixtah
02-02-2008, 12:13 AM
"Challenge......CHALLENGE I SAID."

:scared: :bolt:

hahahahhahaha that was hilarious

but it's obvious that Roger doesn't need to look at his box to challenge. He just challenges, bam wrong the ball is like a foot out, and moves on lol

gulzhan
02-02-2008, 08:06 AM
BTW note how Ana Ivanovic has an even worse record.

:haha: i am glad people notice that.. and how MUCH she is wrong :eek: the reason why she is absolutely the worst is because all the linesmen are on her side in all the countries :mad: so, every close call is in her favor, so the girl has to take challenges when the ball is out/in by 10-15 sms :haha:

I'm willing to believe him, here. Still I think he also does so just to show his grudges against the system. Which I don't blame him for, he has every right to hold his opinions, but I do wish he'd tone it down a bit at times.

Yep, noticed that. At least he has the guts to stand up for his OWN decisions, however silly they sometimes seem to be. :worship:

:eek:

very strange... when he opposed to the system, he said there should be human part in it, so why bother taking challenges at all? :shrug: i remember his first challenge (or maybe one of the first) against gasquet in toronto final, roger did it because he wanted to win the point in the crucial moment not because he was upset...

as to the box, what you say is ridiculous. players look at the box because it's seen better from the top, that's all. roger does not want a coach, his gf is too busy chewing the gum, whose fault is it? :shrug:

saippuakauppias
02-02-2008, 08:55 AM
Novak doesn't brake the rules by taking a medical (faking or not faking), he doesn't brake the rule with ball bouncing etc...two can play that game.

Could you or anyone else for that matter tell me when is that moment
the serve is considered to start?
I have been told by an ITF official that the serve starts when the ball is let off your hand up to the air. This would mean that bouncing and putting yourself into service position is the time before the serve and not included in the service motion. However it's the chair umpire's job to make a point about this of which they haven't been very good at. They let too many players get away with too long serve preparation.

barbadosan
02-02-2008, 11:25 AM
:haha: i am glad people notice that.. and how MUCH she is wrong :eek: the reason why she is absolutely the worst is because all the linesmen are on her side in all the countries :mad: so, every close call is in her favor, so the girl has to take challenges when the ball is out/in by 10-15 sms :haha:



:eek:

very strange... when he opposed to the system, he said there should be human part in it, so why bother taking challenges at all? :shrug: i remember his first challenge (or maybe one of the first) against gasquet in toronto final, roger did it because he wanted to win the point in the crucial moment not because he was upset...

as to the box, what you say is ridiculous. players look at the box because it's seen better from the top, that's all. roger does not want a coach, his gf is too busy chewing the gum, whose fault is it? :shrug:

I thought it was the player who was supposed to challenge, not the player and entourage, or player assisted by entourage

gulzhan
02-02-2008, 11:43 AM
then players should not be permitted to take a challenge of the ball at the other side of the court :shrug: because you can't physically see if that was in or out...

RagingLamb
02-02-2008, 07:09 PM
then players should not be permitted to take a challenge of the ball at the other side of the court :shrug: because you can't physically see if that was in or out...

but the odds of the line judges being wrong are independent of side, and sometimes players have a good feel for their shots.

but I bet if you looked at the calls, players are not as accurate when challenging the far calls.

tennizen
02-03-2008, 01:31 AM
I thought it was the player who was supposed to challenge, not the player and entourage, or player assisted by entourage

One of the commentators mentioned reg. this during AO. He said there was no "official rule" that said players couldn't look up at their box before challenging. So he said it isn't illegal. Not yet atleast

Marek.
02-03-2008, 07:34 AM
What's worse: ExFed or Nadull?

Grunge
02-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Well, it would be stupid to forbid looking at the box before player challenge a call. The whole point of challenge system is to lower number of bad calls, so if player's box help him to ask challenge only on suspicious balls it is very good thing. Otherwise we would have Federer-like challenges all the time, and I am sure no one wants that.

Sunset of Age
02-03-2008, 08:54 PM
Well, it would be stupid to forbid looking at the box before player challenge a call. The whole point of challenge system is to lower number of bad calls, so if player's box help him to ask challenge only on suspicious balls it is very good thing. Otherwise we would have Federer-like challenges all the time, and I am sure no one wants that.

On-court coaching is (officially) prohibited, and looking at your box for advice before deciding to challenge is a form of subtle on-court coaching.
So, you are wrong.

tennizen
02-03-2008, 09:01 PM
On-court coaching is (officially) prohibited, and looking at your box for advice before deciding to challenge is a form of subtle on-court coaching.
So, you are wrong.

Actually, the commentators were discussing this issue. One of them was of your opinion. But the other one disagreed. He said it isn't prohibited currently as per the challenge rules and hence its not illegal. I am ok with the players looking up to the box atleast until it becomes officially invalid. Right now I think it is not.

Sunset of Age
02-03-2008, 09:22 PM
Actually, the commentators were discussing this issue. One of them was of your opinion. But the other one disagreed. He said it isn't prohibited currently as per the challenge rules and hence its not illegal. I am ok with the players looking up to the box atleast until it becomes officially invalid. Right now I think it is not.

Well, I guess this is a matter of 'interpreting the rules' against 'taking the rules literally'. I can't help but think that seeking advice before challenging - looking at one's box is enough, they'll surely answer the player by nodding or anything the like - is at least a form of on-court coaching, even if it's not (yet) part of the 'official' rules re. challenging.

The ATP should at least make sure that it's clear for ALL the players what they are allowed to do and what not. And for this matter, I don't think it would be an improvement for the game if the tennis fans are going to have to witness players' boxes screaming "CHALLENGE!!!" every disputable decision in the near future... :shrug:

tennizen
02-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Well, I guess this is a matter of 'interpreting the rules' against 'taking the rules literally'. I can't help but think that seeking advice before challenging - looking at one's box is enough, they'll surely answer the player by nodding or anything the like - is at least a form of on-court coaching, even if it's not (yet) part of the 'official' rules re. challenging.

The ATP should at least make sure that it's clear for ALL the players what they are allowed to do and what not. And for this matter, I don't think it would be an improvement for the game if the tennis fans are going to have to witness players' boxes screaming "CHALLENGE!!!" every disputable decision in the near future... :shrug:

I think what you say reg. interpretation is true. But to me confirming a challenge doesn't seem equivalent to on-court coaching. It provides no overarching benefit to the player other than for that single point. To me its a little bit worse than looking at a player's box for reassurance. But like you say, they should make the rule one way or another but if they don't have it specified, then I think players have the liberty to exploit the current rules as they see fit.

JediFed
02-04-2008, 09:20 AM
Succesfully Challenging - by Roger Federer, with a foreword by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles...


:lol:

:worship::worship:

tangerine_dream
05-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Three Years of Hawk-Eye Electronic Line-Calling (http://www.tenniscountry.com/blog/2009/04/three_years_of_hawkeye_electro.html)

It’s been over three years since “instant replay” technology was introduced to professional tennis. [...]

The men have questioned about twice as many line calls overall. Interestingly, it is Roger Federer who has challenged the most line calls and yet he has also stated that he’s not a fan of the Hawk-Eye system. Novak Djokovic is the most accurate male player in terms of questioning calls, i.e. Djokovic is right 55% of the time compared to 39% for Roger Federer, 36% for Rafael Nadal and 25% for Andy Murray.

finishingmove
05-13-2009, 07:00 PM
murray likes to use those challenges at the end of the set, just so they aren't left unused.

federer on the other hand has some serious trips at times.

star
05-13-2009, 07:08 PM
Australian Open has decided to name and shame the worst offenders and Roger Federer is in the bottom 10 of 41 players.

Djokovic achieved a success rate of 60% and Nadal had 73% success rate, both of which are exceptional. Nadal and Djokovic made the Top 10 and are in reality ranked 1 and 2 as the players above them made so few challenges and/or were eliminated early in the tournament that their results are statistically insignificant.

Federer made 21 challenges on his route to the semis and was correct ONLY ON 5 occasions (23.8% success rate). No wonder Federer was against it. He either makes those terrible challenges to break the opponents momentum (which worked against Tipsarevic) or he needs his eyes examined.

Most people on MTF will accuse Novak for lack of sportsmanship (ball bouncing, medicals etc.), hell even Federer did, but he should take a better look at some of his own actions.


here's the link

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/scores/challenge/index.html

Yes, but Federer only makes challenges to "mock the system."

:p

star
05-13-2009, 07:16 PM
murray likes to use those challenges at the end of the set, just so they aren't left unused.

federer on the other hand has some serious trips at times.

That's kind of ridiculous. Unless you think you are right, it makes no sense to challenge a call -- unless it's gamesmanship. To say they are left "unused" makes no sense. It's not as if there is any use in them other than to correct a bad call. If there aren't any calls a player thinks are bad at the end of the set, using them is meaningless.

w78dexon_y
05-13-2009, 07:16 PM
Well, it would be stupid to forbid looking at the box before player challenge a call. The whole point of challenge system is to lower number of bad calls, so if player's box help him to ask challenge only on suspicious balls it is very good thing. Otherwise we would have Federer-like challenges all the time, and I am sure no one wants that.

absolutely! A player can use a chrystal ball if they like to determine whether to challenge or not. As long as they do it within given time frame.

w78dexon_y
05-13-2009, 07:34 PM
abuse? How can a player abuse the hawkeye?? Anybody has 3 incorrect challenges, plus one in TB.
It could be only that a player used it less smarter than any other players. But abuse...?? Didn't get that.

TheWall
05-13-2009, 07:36 PM
How did Nadal and Murray manage to get a worse percentage of challenges right than Federer?

I've seen Federer challenging balls that were at least 2 feet out.

star
05-13-2009, 07:48 PM
I've seen Federer challenging balls that were at least 2 feet out.

But, it's only to mock the system. It's not gamesmanship or anything.

finishingmove
05-13-2009, 07:52 PM
But, it's only to mock the system. It's not gamesmanship or anything.

it's the same as challenging any other ball that seemed to have been out.

hawk eye could always show it in.

Ilovetheblues_86
05-13-2009, 10:04 PM
This thread is very sissy

star
05-13-2009, 11:11 PM
it's the same as challenging any other ball that seemed to have been out.

hawk eye could always show it in.

Only if you believe as Federer says he does that the system is horribly flawed and consistently inaccurate.