Why is the slice backhand so underrented? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why is the slice backhand so underrented?

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leng jai
02-01-2008, 05:50 AM
Ah the slice backhand. Such a wonderfully delicate ballet shot which can open up a plethora of new tactics if utilised correctly. The shot that Rodduck desperately tries to use but fails dismally in any attacking sense. The shot Gonzo has barstardized beyond repair. The shot Federer uses with ease to set up his forehand winners. The shot that Berdych thinks he can smash for winners without bending his knees. The shot that the Fixer has night terrors over.

So I pose this question: Why is the slice so underrented?

Off the top of my head there are several reasons. The death of the serve and volley is a large factor. The slowing of Wimbledon is another. The transformation of the modern game and racquet technology which promotes Nadalesque moonballing and Blakesque ball bashing. I can barely think of any top players who can hit a decent attacking slice. Of course theres Federer, my personal obssession (Haas), Hewit....and now my mind draws a big fat blank.

Its hard to see why a player wouldn't use a low attacking slice more often. It confuses ball bashers like Davydenko, Berdych and Roddick. It negates the big off forehand that 90% of players use, can draw players who can't volley into the net, destroys players who are allergic to bending their knees, extremely effective defensive shot, causes mayhem to the the incoming volleyer who will have no choice but to do a drop volley 90% of the time.

~*BGT*~
02-01-2008, 05:54 AM
I don't know. Why is Davydenko so underrented? :shrug:

NinaNina19
02-01-2008, 06:04 AM
Actually Murray has quite a nice slice. IMO at least.

Kolya
02-01-2008, 06:55 AM
Most players just use the slice as a form of defence.

Roddick tries to use it like Federer but as you said he fails.

Halba
02-01-2008, 07:27 AM
allez tsonga's slice dropped too short


fed's slice dropped too short

hungry djokovic ate slice with his monstrous two handed backhand down the line.

Allure
02-01-2008, 07:28 AM
allez tsonga's slice dropped too short


fed's slice dropped too short

hungry djokovic ate slice with his monstrous two handed backhand down the line.

:yeah:

JimmyV
02-01-2008, 07:31 AM
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9546/tennishx5.jpg

I bet these dapper chaps could demonstrate a fine tutorial on the proper application of backspin in a fine game of lawn tennis.

This age of tennis gladiators is incomparable to the days of yore, what with their grunting and sweating, a right bunch of savages they look!

I yearn for a return to proper tennis competition, none of these grizzly and gratuitous rallies, simple chip, charge, ands slice will suffice to peak my interest.

All but the uneducated heathen knows a proper point should not extend beyond eight seconds, any more and your likely to look the fool, and maybe get a jolly good rogering from your chums back at the clubhouse!

sigmagirl91
02-01-2008, 01:37 PM
Why is the slice underrented? Because it's a steal of a deal, and people wanted to BUY it!

Black Adam
02-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Thing is at this AO the balls were too heavy. I think that's why Fed was hitting the backhand more instead of just slicing.

Fedex
02-02-2008, 07:44 AM
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9546/tennishx5.jpg

I bet these dapper chaps could demonstrate a fine tutorial on the proper application of backspin in a fine game of lawn tennis.

This age of tennis gladiators is incomparable to the days of yore, what with their grunting and sweating, a right bunch of savages they look!

I yearn for a return to proper tennis competition, none of these grizzly and gratuitous rallies, simple chip, charge, ands slice will suffice to peak my interest.

All but the uneducated heathen knows a proper point should not extend beyond eight seconds, any more and your likely to look the fool, and maybe get a jolly good rogering from your chums back at the clubhouse!

:haha: :rolls: :haha:

Fensler
02-02-2008, 08:35 AM
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9546/tennishx5.jpg



Have a look at that saucy minx standing second from the right. If her hemline had been any higher, her knickers would've been exposed!

For shame!

Sean.J.S.
02-02-2008, 08:42 AM
Why is the slice so underrented?

According to dictionary.com underrented isn't a word. :wavey:

It's underrated, fool! :rolleyes:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/Seanlol123/underrented.jpg

KitinovRules
02-02-2008, 02:12 PM
Thing is at this AO the balls were too heavy. I think that's why Fed was hitting the backhand more instead of just slicing.

Very true, unfortunately.
It is not underrated, it is very important shot tacticaly.
When playing big hitters , it is very clever shot especially on clay since it is changing the pace off and if played good it is not a defensive shot.
Fed used it extremely well in the finals in US Open final 2007, putting it inside the court ,very low so The Faker could not played his game at all.
This year in the semi's he played that shot in extremely rare moments, frankly I do not know why!
He didn't played it in AO at all, probably because the balls were too bad after 2-3 games.
Gonzo is playing it too often for my standards, though it is not that good as he or Larry S. think it is. He is playing it very strangely and after it the ball is bouncing too high!!!

moon language
02-02-2008, 02:22 PM
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9546/tennishx5.jpg

I bet these dapper chaps could demonstrate a fine tutorial on the proper application of backspin in a fine game of lawn tennis.

This age of tennis gladiators is incomparable to the days of yore, what with their grunting and sweating, a right bunch of savages they look!

I yearn for a return to proper tennis competition, none of these grizzly and gratuitous rallies, simple chip, charge, ands slice will suffice to peak my interest.

All but the uneducated heathen knows a proper point should not extend beyond eight seconds, any more and your likely to look the fool, and maybe get a jolly good rogering from your chums back at the clubhouse!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though I think the slice has become the forgotten thing everyone is trying to use again in the past couple of years after Federer started killing people with it. In fact I think Federer now employs his "pull them in with a slice" tactic too habitually and some players are getting used to it.

JMG
02-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Other players who are well known for their great backhand slice: Philipp Petzschner (just look at my avatar) and Ivan Miranda

Black Adam
02-02-2008, 05:01 PM
Steffi Graff had a Good slice. Those days the tennis standards on WTA weren't as bad as today where it's all about hitting the crap out of the ball. You would expect girls to play graceful tennis but jeez :eek:

calvinhobbes
02-02-2008, 05:25 PM
According to dictionary.com underrented isn't a word. :wavey:

It's underrated, fool! :rolleyes:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/Seanlol123/underrented.jpg

I believe under-rented is the appropriate word. And this brings to me the idea that every shot of every match is a temporarily rented tool from the rich treasure of Tennis . . . . .:):):)

Adler
02-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Dancevic has a very good slice, proble is that he's overusing it

BodyServe
02-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Wesley Moodie is another player with a very good slice.

Beforehand
02-02-2008, 06:46 PM
Underrated. :yes:

I adore the slice backhand. It was the first shot I ever tried doing consistently, which resulted in me hitting a lot of accidental drop shots. That used to piss my friends off quite a lot.

Merton
02-02-2008, 06:47 PM
It is an important shot for changing the rhythm and thinking ahead in the point, I guess these days tennis academies do not exactly encourage the development of this shot for youngsters.

CyBorg
02-02-2008, 07:01 PM
According to dictionary.com underrented isn't a word. :wavey:

It's underrated, fool! :rolleyes:

You're wrong.

Beforehand
02-02-2008, 07:20 PM
He's clearly not.

CyBorg
02-02-2008, 07:24 PM
By the grace of King Oscar he's not.

yellowboy906
02-02-2008, 08:59 PM
Fed used it extremely well in the finals in US Open final 2007, putting it inside the court ,very low so The Faker could not played his game at all. This year in the semi's he played that shot in extremely rare moments, frankly I do not know why!
He didn't played it in AO at all, probably because the balls were too bad after 2-3 games.

federer did use his slice in the semi against djokovic. didn't u see that every time he slice the ball, djokovic step in and hit a backhand winner almost every time. that's why i think he stops using it later in the match cause djokovic is not afraid of low slice especially to his backhand side.

Action Jackson
03-10-2008, 05:44 AM
The King has a great slice backhand, in some ways it's not considered macho.

It's a good shot to use, but not just a floating slice, it has to be really sliced, so it goes ankle high. Good way of bringing some baseliners who hate moving forward off the baseline.

henree
03-10-2008, 06:01 AM
Why is the slice underrented? Because it's a steal of a deal, and people wanted to BUY it!
Falls off a cliff LMAO

Federerhingis
03-10-2008, 06:55 AM
Not too many players are proficient using this shot. Only Federer and Haas use it frequently and successfully. When Federer's slice is working well and playing shart it's a pretty lethal shot against just about any player except against Nadal.

Murray has a decent one but he underuses it, and sometimes overuses it at the inopportune times.

Roddick on the other hand should stay away from using his slice shot, it's okay at best. I don't think he used much of it during his win in Dubai. ;)

Timbo
03-10-2008, 04:11 PM
There's a few reason it's not used as much, I think. The balls are a big factor...they're bigger, fluffier and flatter than they were 5-10 years ago so the shot doesn't come through as quick. Players are hitting shots that kick a lot higher, so they're standing well back to hit them and it's not easy or effective to hit a slice backhand from 3 metres behind the baseline at shoulder height...the shot ends up being short or floats too much and gets picked off in the air. And players that do stand in are almost hitting the ball on the half-volley...if you watch Federer, he half-volleys a lot of shots on the baseline...tough/impossible to to half-volley slices from the backhand.

Rafter's was probably the last great attacking slice backhand...although Henman's was decent. Murray's is defensive, and not great.

Action Jackson
03-18-2008, 07:04 AM
Haas used it very well in his match against Roddick to keep him off balance.

leng jai
04-29-2008, 10:11 AM
The answer is now clear. The slice is an inferior one handed shot.

theDreamer
04-29-2008, 10:21 AM
Not too many players are proficient using this shot. Only Federer and Haas use it frequently and successfully. When Federer's slice is working well and playing shart it's a pretty lethal shot against just about any player except against Nadal.

Murray has a decent one but he underuses it, and sometimes overuses it at the inopportune times.

Roddick on the other hand should stay away from using his slice shot, it's okay at best. I don't think he used much of it during his win in Dubai. ;)

He did:)
Watch his match against Djokovic.
I would say it was an important factor in his win.

Bernard Black
04-29-2008, 11:20 AM
Wow, you read my mind, I was just about to bump this thread.

The slice is criminally underused, especially during the clay season when variety and creativity is the way to win (unless you're Nadal).

Action Jackson
08-01-2008, 12:44 PM
Dr Ivo was really knifiing the slice backhands against Fed and it worked quite well for him. I mean he doesn't have a topspin backhand, so if a player is going to slice, then slice it properly and not let it float.

leng jai
08-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Haasi also using it very effectively against Nadull today. Fedmug should take note, it may have cost him a Wimbledon title.

Julio
08-01-2008, 01:15 PM
The slice one-backhand-handed is the most beautiful shot on tennis and one of course he is underrented. The pb is that some players should go to tennis club to learn how to do it.
For me just 5 or 6 players know how to "slice" : Fed, El Aynaoui, Murray, Haas and sometimes Gasquet.
Forget Gonzo, Ivo etc.

Nastasie
08-01-2008, 01:39 PM
Lapentti got a lot of points against Ferrer by using ye olde slice backhand. It was so effective, totally threw Ferrer off. That match was tactically beautiful from Lapentti. *sigh*

groundstroke
08-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Federer uses it well, Nadal has started to use it too, Murray uses the slice-dropshot, Gasquet wins a lot of short points at the net by slicing the ball off his forehand for a winner, Djokovic also uses it well..

Action Jackson
08-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Lapentti got a lot of points against Ferrer by using ye olde slice backhand. It was so effective, totally threw Ferrer off. That match was tactically beautiful from Lapentti. *sigh*

Nico loves the slice and dice, off pace shots, thrown in with some dropshots. He doesn't have the power and an effective slice BH is still a good shot that doesn't get played often enough.

Yes, the tennis farms tend not to develop this shot.

Lunaris
08-01-2008, 02:22 PM
Wow, you read my mind, I was just about to bump this thread.

The slice is criminally underused, especially during the clay season when variety and creativity is the way to win (unless you're Nadal).
On clay the ball bounces relatively high even if backspinned, therefore one of the major strengths of the slice is nullified. That's why it's not used as often on clay, at least not as an offensive shot.

Nastasie
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
Nico loves the slice and dice, off pace shots, thrown in with some dropshots. He doesn't have the power and an effective slice BH is still a good shot that doesn't get played often enough.

Yes, the tennis farms tend not to develop this shot.

And the lobs, don't forget the lobs.:p

Nico is an intelligent player, really cool and such a pleasure to watch when he's on (and not struggling with injury, lack of form, etc, which is unfortunately rare).

I am forced to agree that there is a sort of one-track game becoming too prevalent. The kids that have a better touch and variation aren't consistent enough yet, but since I really dislike this type of "oh, the good old times" discourse, I prefer to wait and see how things will develop.

miura
08-01-2008, 03:03 PM
On clay the ball bounces relatively high even if backspinned, therefore one of the major strengths of the slice is nullified. That's why it's not used as often on clay, at least not as an offensive shot.
I've played tennis since I was 8 years old and my personal experience is that the slice can be very effective on clay. If you hit it from a very low position, it tends to bounce up and give your opponent a great opportunity to hit a big shot. However, if you hit it from shoulder height(which is quite easy, playing against top-spinners on clay), the ball tends to skid a bit and making it quite low. This is a nice varation I use in matches and I seldom find my opponent being able to hit a winner of it. More often he has to just push the ball back, giving me the advantage.

I agree in a lot of posts here about the pro's and their slice backhands. To pull of excessive use of slice bh's, you need the proper footwork to not beeing pushed of the court. Federer uses his to set up a point whilst for instance Youzhny uses it more to cause an error or an unlikely opportunity. I'd like to think that the slice is most used in a defensive way for most players, but to those who can execute it properly, a clear offensive/offensive-buildup shot.

fast_clay
08-01-2008, 06:55 PM
murray has a solid slice... mainly defensive tho... hopefully he'll develop it further, but, in my opinion it equals fed's in terms of defensive quality...



for mine the slice will return to the game as a way of negating heavy spin... it'll be employed a little different than before... encouraging heavy basliners to the net with neat, super low slices that lose most of their speed around 3/4 court...

to leng jai, it is a total loss to me as to why the slice bh disappeared for the most part as an attacking weapon...

but... i believe in cycles, and i am certain it will return, especially for those who wish to twist away the edge from baseline hugging boredom merchants... they dont like to play a lot of tennis low at 3/4 court... robots are built as expressionless sluggers programmed to ball bash at waste height that have been delivered with topspin itself... the next generation of players to use the slice PROPERLY will be the anti-rhythm attackers i feel... ala stepanek...

the anti-program...

top shelf thread...!

habibko
08-01-2008, 08:46 PM
ok....what about a two-handed forehand slice?? I can't believe Santoro hasn't been mentioned here yet, he has such a wonderful and clean slice albeit not one-handed.

the slice is one of my most favorable shots in tennis (personally I suck at it which is sad :sad:) I wish I had a one-handed backhand so I could learn it better, and yes Federer should use it much more, but for those who mention him using it against Nadal, I believe Nadal's groundstrokes are too hard to slice especially if he is on the offensive, and Federer knows this.

GlennMirnyi
08-01-2008, 08:51 PM
On clay the ball bounces relatively high even if backspinned, therefore one of the major strengths of the slice is nullified. That's why it's not used as often on clay, at least not as an offensive shot.

Have you ever played on clay? Have you ever watched someone playing on clay? Haven't you watched Stepanek's great matches on clay?

The slice is very effective on clay, I can say that from personal experience. Problem is, you have to know how to slice. The slice isn't only a defensive shot. Players today are at fault for not having the ability to slice, thus making the shot look bad.

habibko
08-01-2008, 08:59 PM
Have you ever played on clay? Have you ever watched someone playing on clay? Haven't you watched Stepanek's great matches on clay?

The slice is very effective on clay, I can say that from personal experience. Problem is, you have to know how to slice. The slice isn't only a defensive shot. Players today are at fault for not having the ability to slice, thus making the shot look bad.

I totally agree, it's a thing of beauty when Federer offensively slices down the line from his left side of the court, 99% he ends up winning that point, the break point against Ginperi when he was serving for the match comes off my mind right now.

GlennMirnyi
08-01-2008, 09:06 PM
I totally agree, it's a thing of beauty when Federer offensively slices down the line from his left side of the court, 99% he ends up winning that point, the break point against Ginperi when he was serving for the match comes off my mind right now.

Makes you wonder why he played 5 sets in Wimbledon hitting no more than 5 backhand slices. This is tactical arrogance at best. If he had a shit slice, it would be okay, but the guy has one of the best slices in tennis. Then he simply doesn't use it for a whole season, when everybody sees his topspin backhand has gone down the drain.

fast_clay
08-01-2008, 10:50 PM
Makes you wonder why he played 5 sets in Wimbledon hitting no more than 5 backhand slices. This is tactical arrogance at best. If he had a shit slice, it would be okay, but the guy has one of the best slices in tennis. Then he simply doesn't use it for a whole season, when everybody sees his topspin backhand has gone down the drain.

yeah for sure... there was a time where he 'knocked-in' the slice throughout the start of the match... but ur right he doesnt use it much nowadays...

kobulingam
08-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Makes you wonder why he played 5 sets in Wimbledon hitting no more than 5 backhand slices. This is tactical arrogance at best. If he had a shit slice, it would be okay, but the guy has one of the best slices in tennis. Then he simply doesn't use it for a whole season, when everybody sees his topspin backhand has gone down the drain.

Nadal is a slice-proof player. So is Federer.
People sending slice shots against these two players usually get them spanked back to lose control of the point.

octatennis
08-01-2008, 11:19 PM
the thing is that the players these days do not know how execute the shot so at the moment they used it, end up giving advantage to the oponent and get **** by a 200k/m shot.

oranges
08-01-2008, 11:22 PM
Nadal is a slice-proof player. So is Federer.
People sending slice shots against these two players usually get them spanked back to lose control of the point.

Haas seemed to be doing quite well with the slice yesterday, so not quite slice-proof ;)

fast_clay
08-01-2008, 11:35 PM
great examples of slive being used effectively on slow clay is Rafter beating Muster rd4 '97 Roland garros + also carved Bruguera up for a set n a break in the semis that year too... the 1st set and a half Henman was chopping up coria for a set and a half in the 04 rg semi with a heap of short sliced sh!t... coria looked as tho he was playing against a junior and losing without knowing how... pity abouth the result after henman stopped executing... i agree with those saying its not used widely cos no one really can play it well...

GlennMirnyi
08-02-2008, 12:03 AM
Nadal is a slice-proof player. So is Federer.
People sending slice shots against these two players usually get them spanked back to lose control of the point.

Do you even think before posting?

This is between the top 5 bullshit posts ever.

There's no such thing as "slice proof player"... :rolleyes:

Spes
08-02-2008, 12:13 AM
Nadal is a slice-proof player. So is Federer.
People sending slice shots against these two players usually get them spanked back to lose control of the point.

It isn't possible to be slice-proof, sorry.

I think the slice is used less and less these days because players just do not know how to hit a slice. They end up hitting some floating puffball that may or not land deep that ends up right in the strike zone of the opposing player. There are a few players who can still slice effectively (Haas, Federer). The rest of them hit a good carving slice occassionaly, but it usually ends up as I mentioned before.

fast_clay
08-02-2008, 01:26 AM
great examples of slive being used effectively on slow clay is Rafter beating Muster rd4 '97 Roland garros + also carved Bruguera up for a set n a break in the semis that year too... the 1st set and a half Henman was chopping up coria for a set and a half in the 04 rg semi with a heap of short sliced sh!t... coria looked as tho he was playing against a junior and losing without knowing how... pity abouth the result after henman stopped executing... i agree with those saying its not used widely cos no one really can play it well...

rafter muster french rd4 97
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9QghtvCGIQ

rafter bruguera french sf 97, parts 1,2 n 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_k7jAp7818&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eVmDBkbguw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfqTTEyRLoY&feature=related

good because it shows a heap of rafter getting passed n hurt by topspin, as well as success... yet, doesnt abandon the attacking mentality... just seen by rafter as 'acceptable damage'... only players currently who would get near to adopting this today are llodra and stepanek...

plenty of rallies and slice action from rafter at different lengths...

leng jai
08-02-2008, 01:27 AM
Slice - The shot of champions.

fast_clay
08-02-2008, 01:34 AM
Slice - The shot of champions.

without even a shadow of a doubt...

*Viva Chile*
08-02-2008, 03:55 AM
ok....what about a two-handed forehand slice?? I can't believe Santoro hasn't been mentioned here yet, he has such a wonderful and clean slice albeit not one-handed.


He is "right handed" (well serves with the right hand and uses top-spin backhand like a right hander) but often uses a one-handed slice backhand like he was a lefty ;)

habibko
08-02-2008, 05:02 AM
He is "right handed" (well serves with the right hand and uses top-spin backhand like a right hander) but often uses a one-handed slice backhand like he was a lefty ;)

he actually tends to slice his forehand strokes most frequently and attack with topspin backhands, which is why players play him as a "lefty" player, attacking the forehand side as if it was a backhand.

I don't know if those were mentioned yet but Karlovic and Lopez can't hit any backhand shot but the slice, and they are quite effective, of course not like Federer's or Haas's who have completed the art of a one-handed backhand and possess Laver-like natural talent with it.

Lunaris
08-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Of course the more high to low you swing your racket the bigger backspin you will generate, which means lower bounce on any surface, even on clay. So if you swing the racket from your shoulder height the ball will bounce lower.
I was merely saying that slice isn't as effective on clay as it is on other surfaces and that's why it is not used as often on clay as it is on hard and grass. Federer who has a great slice prefers to hit usual bh drive on clay over slice, I wonder why.
I never wrote it is only a defensive shot. It's a great offensive shot if you want to approach the net, or draw your opponent there and then pass him or force him to hit a difficult volley, or if he has troubles to bend his knees when hitting low bouncing balls.
As for why the slice is not used as often as in the old days, well most players nowadays use western fh grips and prefer to hit topspins, as well as two-handed backhands from the opposite wing.

Action Jackson
08-02-2008, 01:52 PM
Federer is stubborn that's why, anyone with a clue can see that. I mean he has won 12 GS titles, so he is entitled to think like this.

Coming to the net on a topspin BH approach, especially to Nadal, is going to recieve the treatment it deserves.

Of course slice is effective on clay, if the technique is right and the technical deficinces will get spooted more so on clay than on other surfaces.

leng jai
08-31-2008, 02:24 PM
The future of the slice backhand is looking bleak with Haas thinking of retirement and Fedmug in a downward spiral. Nadal is showing the next generation tennis players his moonball slice can win Wimbledon.

Action Jackson
09-01-2008, 12:42 PM
The slice serve has been working quite well at the US Open. Roddick has been using the sexy slice.

Thunder Lips tried to use it, but not happening for him. The shot when executed right is effective, but the slice has to really knifed, if not, then it will be the Gonzo float.

Jaap
09-01-2008, 12:45 PM
Nishikori used it quite well at times vs Ferrer.

leng jai
09-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Nishikori used it quite well at times vs Ferrer.

Haven't seen him play this week yet but it sounds promising.

zine56
09-01-2008, 01:15 PM
but the slice has to really knifed, if not, then it will be the Gonzo float.

:rolls: LOL, hey anyone saw that BH slice return winner from Gonzo yesterday? hilarious!! :rolls:

Bernard Black
09-01-2008, 03:04 PM
The future of the slice backhand is looking bleak with Haas thinking of retirement and Fedmug in a downward spiral. Nadal is showing the next generation tennis players his moonball slice can win Wimbledon.

:lol:

Nadal slices with a forehand grip like all juniors do, no wonder it always floats and receives the full treatment. If you're going to add a new shot to your game, at least learn how to use it properly. It's embarrassing considering he is ranked no.1 in his profession but then again it shows how effective the rest of his game is.

Jimnik
09-01-2008, 03:38 PM
RAndy is keeping it alive. :)

He rented it more and more against Ernie.

mecir72
09-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Topspin beats slice most of the time in todays tennis which is why it isnt used as much. Another reason is that all players except maybe a few have good backhand top spin shots today so they dont have to slice like they had to before. I think the slice as an offensive shot is harder to pull off today but it can work well on returns where you can trap the server a bit. It is also less effective to slice and come in because it is harder to win the point at the net today. Volleying below the net is almost a certain loss of way more than 50 percent of the points for most players today.
If you like to see the sliced used well the best player to watch would be flavio cippola. He has a wonderful sliced backhand and also a good sliced forehand. Very crafty player.

GlennMirnyi
09-01-2008, 04:57 PM
:lol:

Nadal slices with a forehand grip like all juniors do, no wonder it always floats and receives the full treatment. If you're going to add a new shot to your game, at least learn how to use it properly. It's embarrassing considering he is ranked no.1 in his profession but then again it shows how effective the rest of his game is.

Slicing with a forehand grip should make someone be defaulted. It's pathetic.

Topspin beats slice most of the time in todays tennis which is why it isnt used as much. Another reason is that all players except maybe a few have good backhand top spin shots today so they dont have to slice like they had to before. I think the slice as an offensive shot is harder to pull off today but it can work well on returns where you can trap the server a bit. It is also less effective to slice and come in because it is harder to win the point at the net today. Volleying below the net is almost a certain loss of way more than 50 percent of the points for most players today.
If you like to see the sliced used well the best player to watch would be flavio cippola. He has a wonderful sliced backhand and also a good sliced forehand. Very crafty player.

Hummmm no way.

Before courts were faster, balls were lighter.

fast_clay
09-01-2008, 05:09 PM
:lol:

Nadal slices with a forehand grip like all juniors do, no wonder it always floats and receives the full treatment. If you're going to add a new shot to your game, at least learn how to use it properly. It's embarrassing considering he is ranked no.1 in his profession but then again it shows how effective the rest of his game is.

A picture of nadal is seen on the Wikipedia website... performing the in-to-out luna-forehand...? no... it says:

"Rafael Nadal performing a backhand volley."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis

performing... or umm... murdering.... the backhand volley... i mean... what a joke... the grip... Glenn will hurt when he sees the grip... it is an absolute disgrace...

I am seriously thinking of boycotting the wikipedia site for a day or two... or maybe less... it has some useful information... tho, obviously some misleading sh!t as well...

there should be a new catergory for nadal's slice and volleys... like.. crapspin or something... they dont really fit proper tennis catergories...

GlennMirnyi
09-01-2008, 05:20 PM
A picture of nadal is seen on the Wikipedia website... performing the in-to-out luna-forehand...? no... it says:

"Rafael Nadal performing a backhand volley."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis

performing... or umm... murdering.... the backhand volley... i mean... what a joke... the grip... Glenn will hurt when he sees the grip... it is an absolute disgrace...

I am seriously thinking of boycotting the wikipedia site for a day or two... or maybe less... it has some useful information... tho, obviously some misleading sh!t as well...

there should be a new catergory for nadal's slice and volleys... like.. crapspin or something... they dont really fit proper tennis catergories...

Edit the page. Nadull should never be under tennis in wikipedia.

groundstroke
09-01-2008, 05:21 PM
The future of the slice backhand is looking bleak with Haas thinking of retirement and Fedmug in a downward spiral. Nadal is showing the next generation tennis players his moonball slice can win Wimbledon.
You can see why it's going down with those 3 names: Haas, Federer and Nadal. 2 of those have 1 handed backhand, most of the time they return a good serve with a slice, while Nadal returns with a 2bh topspin stroke.. the future generation of tennis... (Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, etc)

mecir72
09-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Slicing with a forehand grip should make someone be defaulted. It's pathetic.



Hummmm no way.

Before courts were faster, balls were lighter.

No way as in you havent watched tennis for the last 20 years?

GlennMirnyi
09-01-2008, 07:08 PM
No way as in you havent watched tennis for the last 20 years?

I forgot to finish my sentence. Sorry for that.

Before technique and ability were favoured over power, so the slice was a good shot and going to the net was a good strategy. With the shit slow courts and balls of today, it doesn't work.

mecir72
09-01-2008, 07:48 PM
I forgot to finish my sentence. Sorry for that.

Before technique and ability were favoured over power, so the slice was a good shot and going to the net was a good strategy. With the shit slow courts and balls of today, it doesn't work.

Well that is what I was saying basically. But also that with bigger racquets top spin becomes easier to hit but slicing is about the same. Slice is in the same group of shots that the volley is, almost anyway so that is why the slice is used less in offense today.
Not becuase pros cant do it because they can.

GlennMirnyi
09-01-2008, 08:40 PM
Well that is what I was saying basically. But also that with bigger racquets top spin becomes easier to hit but slicing is about the same. Slice is in the same group of shots that the volley is, almost anyway so that is why the slice is used less in offense today.
Not becuase pros cant do it because they can.

But they can't slice like 90s players.

mecir72
09-02-2008, 12:15 AM
The game is different. They cant slice like the 90s players because the 90s players didnt play like the players today. Courts are different balls are different strings are different. It is easier to hit on a slice today. Pretty much the only good attacking slice is the one off a second serve as that is the only time you can force them to hit out of position, that or a short slice.
I mean this is pro sports, if it would be effective to slice and come in people would do that. If serve and volley was effective it would be used more.

GlennMirnyi
09-02-2008, 12:28 AM
The game is different. They cant slice like the 90s players because the 90s players didnt play like the players today. Courts are different balls are different strings are different. It is easier to hit on a slice today. Pretty much the only good attacking slice is the one off a second serve as that is the only time you can force them to hit out of position, that or a short slice.
I mean this is pro sports, if it would be effective to slice and come in people would do that. If serve and volley was effective it would be used more.

Don't know. Thing is players don't know how to use it nowadays too.

leng jai
09-02-2008, 12:42 AM
To say a slice is not effective in today's game is absolute garbage. If you watch players like Federer and Haas in full flight you can see the benefits of a proper slice backhand. If anything, the shot is more effective now because players aren't used to hitting shots off them because they are so rarely used in an attacking sense.

fast_clay
09-02-2008, 02:00 AM
tsonga's heavily rotating, yet slow moving slice produces a bounce that is pretty low + allows him to move in fairly easily.... casually at times it moves that slow, but uses it almost exclusively for attack. Federer and Haas have classic slice which penetrate on the defence or attack... and i agree with leng jai... where once common, the lack of decent slice backhands on tour make a good slice a major asset...

“When you see his slice, you think, ‘OK, I can hit that.’ ” said Spaniard Felix Mantilla, who lost to Rafter in the Italian Open semifinals. “But the ball is going so slowly it’s like my mother is hitting the ball.”
from the LA Times article:
Rafter’s Rebound Puts Him Within Reach of No. 1
By Lisa Dillman
May 16, 1999

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/16/sports/sp-37954

mecir72
09-02-2008, 06:04 AM
Of course a slice is effective in todays game, just not in the same as before. It is not very effective to slice and come in anymore. To say otherwise is the same as saying I havent watched tennis for the past couple of years. To say that is because the pros cant use it is bad logic to me. If the pros cant use it then who can?

Action Jackson
09-02-2008, 06:53 AM
No point coming into the net on a shot that is in the opponents strike zone.

It really depends on how the slice is used, it's an effective weapon when done properly to throw the rhythm out of the ballbashers, but it has to be low and the court has to take it.

Bernard Black
09-02-2008, 10:18 AM
Of course a slice is effective in todays game, just not in the same as before. It is not very effective to slice and come in anymore. To say otherwise is the same as saying I havent watched tennis for the past couple of years. To say that is because the pros cant use it is bad logic to me. If the pros cant use it then who can?

I see where you're coming from but it's like saying Ronaldinho is a pro footballer therefore he should be great in goal.

Tennis players today simply don't practice the slice as much and have grown up just hitting the hell out of the ball and nothing else. I'd go as far as saying that there are amateur players with a better slice than some pros.

There are clearly instances where a good slice has made a difference in matches within the last couple of years, so it is definitely still effective when used in the right situation.

There's also a different mentality out there too. Sampras would have been passed thousands of times after a slice approach but it didn't stop him still feeling confident in the tactic and he certainly won more points than he lost. Today's players lose lots of confidence if they're passed just once.

mecir72
09-02-2008, 10:25 AM
I seriously dont think that players today dont practice slices, it is just that in match situations when the tempo is high it is harder to do. Amateurs play at a much lower tempo. Try hitting a slice on viscous top spin with good depth when you are forced to run... not that easy. I can hit great slices against weaker players but I dont think that I have a better slice than Nadal because of that.

FiBeR
09-02-2008, 10:25 AM
this may be off-topic..

im barely a weekend tennis player.. and when taking lessons, i keep telling my tennis coach to teach me how to hit a slice forehand.. and he keeps telling me "that's a dead shot.. no one uses it nowadays"

i told him coria used it, he told me i was right, but still never taught me how to :rolls: (im not that good :p i see his point i have a lot of other shots to learn and improve) but bottomline

yeah, slices are underrated.. i kinda like them.. id go with it rather than bashing :lol: i love the idea of driving my rival crazy :devil: but i can see the point..

tennis nowaydas is played based on speed and power.. not much room left for slices.. but that's my opinion, :shrug:

Bernard Black
09-02-2008, 10:26 AM
I seriously dont think that players today dont practice slices, it is just that in match situations when the tempo is high it is harder to do. Amateurs play at a much lower tempo. Try hitting a slice on viscous top spin with good depth when you are forced to run... not that easy. I can hit great slices against weaker players but I dont think that I have a better slice than Nadal because of that.

True, you could be right. Would be interesting to get the perspectives of some players about it. I wonder whether they've been asked in any interviews why they don't use the shot more.

mecir72
09-02-2008, 10:31 AM
I see where you're coming from but it's like saying Ronaldinho is a pro footballer therefore he should be great in goal.

Tennis players today simply don't practice the slice as much and have grown up just hitting the hell out of the ball and nothing else. I'd go as far as saying that there are amateur players with a better slice than some pros.

There are clearly instances where a good slice has made a difference in matches within the last couple of years, so it is definitely still effective when used in the right situation.

There's also a different mentality out there too. Sampras would have been passed thousands of times after a slice approach but it didn't stop him still feeling confident in the tactic and he certainly won more points than he lost. Today's players lose lots of confidence if they're passed just once.

It isnt really like saying that. In tennis you do it all yourself in football you dont.
What I am saying is that why would people not slice more often if it is effective to do so? If I play against someone who cant hit on a slice I slice alot. If they have no problems hitting on my slices and I have trouble hitting slices on their shots I dont slice.

FiBeR
09-02-2008, 10:35 AM
maybe finding hard to control timing and hit a proper slice nowadays?

groundstroke
09-02-2008, 11:03 AM
this may be off-topic..

im barely a weekend tennis player.. and when taking lessons, i keep telling my tennis coach to teach me how to hit a slice forehand.. and he keeps telling me "that's a dead shot.. no one uses it nowadays"

i told him coria used it, he told me i was right, but still never taught me how to :rolls: (im not that good :p i see his point i have a lot of other shots to learn and improve) but bottomline

yeah, slices are underrated.. i kinda like them.. id go with it rather than bashing :lol: i love the idea of driving my rival crazy :devil: but i can see the point..

tennis nowaydas is played based on speed and power.. not much room left for slices.. but that's my opinion, :shrug:
Forehand slice shot? What the hell? You're lucky your coach only said that, the are other coachs that would have shouted at your such stupidity.

Bernard Black
09-02-2008, 11:11 AM
Forehand slice shot? What the hell? You're lucky your coach only said that, the are other coachs that would have shouted at your such stupidity.

Maybe not the full slice but the forehand squash shot is quite useful for a lot of top players today when they don't have the time to take a full swing at the ball.

Action Jackson
09-02-2008, 11:21 AM
Maybe not the full slice but the forehand squash shot is quite useful for a lot of top players today when they don't have the time to take a full swing at the ball.

Exactly and even Federer uses it. :)

leng jai
09-02-2008, 11:24 AM
Forehand slice was mainly employed by serve-volleyers to get to the net back in the day Rafter/Sampras era. The argument that a slice can't be played because the velocity and spin of shots are too great now is crap too. Federer and Haas do it all day long and Haas managed to pull it off consistently against Nadull this season.

Fumus
09-02-2008, 04:25 PM
Ah the slice backhand. Such a wonderfully delicate ballet shot which can open up a plethora of new tactics if utilised correctly. The shot that Rodduck desperately tries to use but fails dismally in any attacking sense. The shot Gonzo has barstardized beyond repair. The shot Federer uses with ease to set up his forehand winners. The shot that Berdych thinks he can smash for winners without bending his knees. The shot that the Fixer has night terrors over.

So I pose this question: Why is the slice so underrented?

Off the top of my head there are several reasons. The death of the serve and volley is a large factor. The slowing of Wimbledon is another. The transformation of the modern game and racquet technology which promotes Nadalesque moonballing and Blakesque ball bashing. I can barely think of any top players who can hit a decent attacking slice. Of course theres Federer, my personal obssession (Haas), Hewit....and now my mind draws a big fat blank.

Its hard to see why a player wouldn't use a low attacking slice more often. It confuses ball bashers like Davydenko, Berdych and Roddick. It negates the big off forehand that 90% of players use, can draw players who can't volley into the net, destroys players who are allergic to bending their knees, extremely effective defensive shot, causes mayhem to the the incoming volleyer who will have no choice but to do a drop volley 90% of the time.

I laugh at the people who think this is one of the best eras in tennis.

Davydenko not a ballbasher, by any definition of the word. :cool:
Roddick not really a basher either anymore.(I wish he still was)

Why is the slice underrated? It's not underrented. ;)

It's underrated because it's not an offensive shot, it's a neutralizing shot. Sure you can hit it short to pull people into net and drop shot with it...bla bla...but the slice is not going to win you matches. It just won't. It can keep you in rallies long enough for another shot to win you the point but it's not a winning shot. You can't build your game around the slice backhand, you can't. A topspin shot, yes. You can build a whole game around that. One of the things you can add to setup that wonderful off forehand shot, is a slice backhand. You see? This is why the slice is not underrated, it's rated just fine...a neutralizing shot, not a winning shot. It's not the meat or the potatoes...it's seasoning or sauce, a shot that adds flavor but not substance.

mecir72
09-02-2008, 10:09 PM
Maybe not the full slice but the forehand squash shot is quite useful for a lot of top players today when they don't have the time to take a full swing at the ball.

Davydenko not a ballbasher, by any definition of the word. :cool:
Roddick not really a basher either anymore.(I wish he still was)

Why is the slice underrated? It's not underrented. ;)

It's underrated because it's not an offensive shot, it's a neutralizing shot. Sure you can hit it short to pull people into net and drop shot with it...bla bla...but the slice is not going to win you matches. It just won't. It can keep you in rallies long enough for another shot to win you the point but it's not a winning shot. You can't build your game around the slice backhand, you can't. A topspin shot, yes. You can build a whole game around that. One of the things you can add to setup that wonderful off forehand shot, is a slice backhand. You see? This is why the slice is not underrated, it's rated just fine...a neutralizing shot, not a winning shot. It's not the meat or the potatoes...it's seasoning or sauce, a shot that adds flavor but not substance.
Well put!!

fast_clay
09-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Today's players lose lots of confidence if they're passed just once.

...the fault of poor coaching... attacking players must have an iron clad resolve... its like picking up birds in bars... if at once rejected, your one chick closer to the score...

at least, thats how i tell the story to my male students... :lol:

gotta keep rolling in... regardless of how someone is passing...

the tour owns a bunch of softies...

leng jai
09-03-2008, 12:14 AM
...the fault of poor coaching... attacking players must have an iron clad resolve... its like picking up birds in bars... if at once rejected, your one chick closer to the score...

at least, thats how i tell the story to my male students... :lol:

gotta keep rolling in... regardless of how someone is passing...

the tour owns a bunch of softies...

Fedmug didn't lose confidence in his net approaches in RG this year :D

fast_clay
09-03-2008, 12:23 AM
Fedmug didn't lose confidence in his net approaches in RG this year :D

yeah mate... its tough out there when our new number 1 is using a juniors racquet...

Fumus
09-03-2008, 02:29 AM
Fedmug didn't lose confidence in his net approaches in RG this year :D

:haha:

Action Jackson
09-04-2008, 04:40 AM
Murray used it very well in his match with del Potro.

Seneca
09-04-2008, 05:07 AM
Murray used it very well in his match with del Potro.
Yes he did. It was an interesting clash of styles.

Also some quality junkballing from Müller against straight-shooting Davydenko, although his slice remains far from world class.

FiBeR
09-11-2008, 09:16 AM
*bump*

hoping to drag some attention this way

Bernard Black
09-11-2008, 10:37 AM
Nice bump.

The two finalists at the U.S. Open used the slice really well throughout the tournament and especially Federer in the final. It's difficult to attack him off that wing when he's hitting the slice well and the other option is to the forehand and you're asking for trouble if you do that too often.

leng jai
09-11-2008, 03:40 PM
Its depressing to see his slice looking more effective on hard court than it did at Wimbledon.

alfonsojose
09-11-2008, 05:47 PM
Its depressing to see his slice looking more effective on hard court than it did at Wimbledon.

:sad: Wimbledon is green clay now. Those high bounces. Look who won this year :rolleyes: :o

yonexforever
09-11-2008, 06:06 PM
Davydenko not a ballbasher, by any definition of the word. :cool:
Roddick not really a basher either anymore.(I wish he still was)

Why is the slice underrated? It's not underrented. ;)

It's underrated because it's not an offensive shot, it's a neutralizing shot. Sure you can hit it short to pull people into net and drop shot with it...bla bla...but the slice is not going to win you matches. It just won't. It can keep you in rallies long enough for another shot to win you the point but it's not a winning shot. You can't build your game around the slice backhand, you can't. A topspin shot, yes. You can build a whole game around that. One of the things you can add to setup that wonderful off forehand shot, is a slice backhand. You see? This is why the slice is not underrated, it's rated just fine...a neutralizing shot, not a winning shot. It's not the meat or the potatoes...it's seasoning or sauce, a shot that adds flavor but not substance.

I have read post after post on this topic, but yours made me want to respond.
I disagree that you cant build your game or win matches with a slice backhand.
Ask Martina Navratilova what the backbone of her ground game was.
FOr years she NEVER came over her backhand off the ground and still managed to do quite nicely thankyouverymuch!
Hell ask Patrick Rafter about his slice backhand.

stebs
09-11-2008, 06:46 PM
It's difficult to attack him off that wing when he's hitting the slice well and the other option is to the forehand and you're asking for trouble if you do that too often.

Good point this one. Whilst Federer does control a lot of points and hit some big shots (vs Murray the FH was monstrous) his defence is actually what made him almost unbeatable during his peak. We saw him playing the defence incredibly against Murray and the BH slice is vital to his game when he is playing good players.

brent-o
09-12-2008, 12:26 AM
I don't understand why the forehand slice is so underused. Sure, we all think of it as that last ditch effort shot when pulled way out of position on your forehand side. Personally, I love to get a hard hit mid court ball right at me and put some strong slice on it to drift up the line (I can only ever remember Martina Hingis doing this). Mine stays really low and has good ball movement. I'm not saying I'm in the class of pros, but if I could learn to do it well, why couldn't they? Sure, nine times out of ten it'd be safer to win the point by smacking a topspin shot that way. But I could see the benefit, especially against an opponent with lazy footwork on their backhand side, to surprise them with it. I hope some player comes along that does this more often.

fast_clay
09-12-2008, 01:38 AM
I don't understand why the forehand slice is so underused. Sure, we all think of it as that last ditch effort shot when pulled way out of position on your forehand side. Personally, I love to get a hard hit mid court ball right at me and put some strong slice on it to drift up the line (I can only ever remember Martina Hingis doing this). Mine stays really low and has good ball movement. I'm not saying I'm in the class of pros, but if I could learn to do it well, why couldn't they? Sure, nine times out of ten it'd be safer to win the point by smacking a topspin shot that way. But I could see the benefit, especially against an opponent with lazy footwork on their backhand side, to surprise them with it. I hope some player comes along that does this more often.

nothing wrong with a bit of variety mate...

as it goes in cricketing circles: 'Sh!t gets wickets'

crude oil
09-12-2008, 06:57 AM
federer's slices are among the best we have seen.

i saw haas try to play nadal not too long ago and haas tried to slice the ball to nadal's fh and he got obliterated because nadal's wrist snap is amazing and he can just whip the ball from his shoe laces.

leng jai
09-12-2008, 08:00 AM
federer's slices are among the best we have seen.

i saw haas try to play nadal not too long ago and haas tried to slice the ball to nadal's fh and he got obliterated because nadal's wrist snap is amazing and he can just whip the ball from his shoe laces.

Clueless post here.

groundstroke
09-12-2008, 04:12 PM
Clueless post here.
I know you like Haas but that match (6-4 7-6) was nothing special for Haas, Federer's slice is still better. I think Haas has a shit backhand..

leng jai
09-13-2008, 05:18 AM
I know you like Haas but that match (6-4 7-6) was nothing special for Haas, Federer's slice is still better. I think Haas has a shit backhand..

I was referring to the hyperbole that Nadull was obliterating Haas' slice with his "amazing wrist snap". Considering you think Fedmug has the best single hander in the open era, I don't think Haas is losing sleeping because you think his backhand is shit.

MatchFederer
09-13-2008, 05:22 AM
Federer definitely has the better slice and Haas' backhand isn't that great and neither is Federer's, but Federer is the superior shot-maker off the forehand side and ARGUABLY the backhand side.

Monteque
09-13-2008, 05:26 AM
Good point this one. Whilst Federer does control a lot of points and hit some big shots (vs Murray the FH was monstrous) his defence is actually what made him almost unbeatable during his peak. We saw him playing the defence incredibly against Murray and the BH slice is vital to his game when he is playing good players.

Fed is the top on the list for doing BH slice. And yes it's vital for his game except for claycourt season:sad:

crude oil
09-13-2008, 06:42 AM
Clueless post here.

im not saying haas obliterated nadal but that whenever haas tried to slice, he was run ragged by nadal's fh..this isnt just an observation from one match but one from all their matches...haas bh always struggles with nadal. thats just a fact...watch the matches buddy

leng jai
09-13-2008, 08:34 AM
im not saying haas obliterated nadal but that whenever haas tried to slice, he was run ragged by nadal's fh..this isnt just an observation from one match but one from all their matches...haas bh always struggles with nadal. thats just a fact...watch the matches buddy

Haas struggling against Nadull has nothing to do with the slice, its just a match up issue. He hates playing him. Haas had all the chances in their last meetings and blew them all anyway.

groundstroke
09-13-2008, 11:30 AM
I was referring to the hyperbole that Nadull was obliterating Haas' slice with his "amazing wrist snap". Considering you think Fedmug has the best single hander in the open era, I don't think Haas is losing sleeping because you think his backhand is shit.
I don't think you really look at Federer's backhand properly.. only one other single hander has won more than him with a 1 hander, I don't think Gaudio, Kuerten or Gasquet's backhands come close as they don't have the game to support, neither does Haas, who really has no big weapons at all? A forehand that cracks under pressure, decent passing shots, decent volleys, but his backhand is overrated - you never know where he'll put it, inconsistent and Federer is more consistent with his backhand.

oranges
09-13-2008, 11:45 AM
I know you like Haas but that match (6-4 7-6) was nothing special for Haas, Federer's slice is still better. I think Haas has a shit backhand..

:rolls: I guess that's why he appears as a candidate in every list of best single handers ever, whether its put together by various magazines or forum posters. Someone should ask Federer whether he would take his backhand. My guess is the answer would be the same and come as quickly as if they asked Haas if he would take Fed's serve.

leng jai
09-13-2008, 12:02 PM
I don't think you really look at Federer's backhand properly.. only one other single hander has won more than him with a 1 hander, I don't think Gaudio, Kuerten or Gasquet's backhands come close as they don't have the game to support, neither does Haas, who really has no big weapons at all? A forehand that cracks under pressure, decent passing shots, decent volleys, but his backhand is overrated - you never know where he'll put it, inconsistent and Federer is more consistent with his backhand.

You spew the same bullshit everytime. Just because Federer has 13 slams doesn't mean his backhand is the best. Haas hasn't got the results because he has had 50 injuries and a bad mental game, not because his backhand isn't good.

"I don't think Gaudio, Kuerten or Gasquet's backhands come close as they don't have the game to support" ...thats the worst worst logic I've ever heard. Seriously.

Timariot
09-13-2008, 12:18 PM
Slice is underrated because many people don't really understand how tennis works, and think that speed of the shot or serve is all that matters. It's noteworthy that Nadal has added slice to his arsenal.

GlennMirnyi
09-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Slice is underrated because many people don't really understand how tennis works, and think that speed of the shot or serve is all that matters. It's noteworthy that Nadal has added slice to his arsenal.

:lol:

Nadull tries, but he can't slice mate. Get a clue.

groundstroke
09-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Slice is underrated because many people don't really understand how tennis works, and think that speed of the shot or serve is all that matters. It's noteworthy that Nadal has added slice to his arsenal.
It's noteworthy that Nadal can't slice for his life.

fast_clay
09-13-2008, 08:29 PM
it is strange in the development of Nadal, that it was left till so late before he tried to include the shot in his game... it also says a lot about todays era that such basic development of a shot could be left until such a late stage...

groundstroke
09-13-2008, 08:34 PM
Considering he comes from Spain and clay is big in Spain is also really weird.

Roland9
09-13-2008, 08:39 PM
Nadull tries, but he can't slice mate. Get a clue.

Of course Nadal can slice. It's not a really good shot at the moment, and his western grip is not helping him in execution. But he can improve it.

Bernard Black
09-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Nadal is one of the reasons the slice is so underrented, people assume it's useless because they see his terribly executed chops get the full treatment every time.

Timariot
09-13-2008, 09:21 PM
Of course Nadal can slice. It's not a really good shot at the moment, and his western grip is not helping him in execution. But he can improve it.

Nadal's slice looks bad next to Federer, but then Federer has the best slice in the business today (perhaps except Santoro? But he doesn't really count because he slices with his forehand) so it is understandable...

noctilux
09-13-2008, 11:51 PM
I still remember the look on Nadal's face after Federer hit a forehand winner off one of Nadal's sliced shots. "What you do to my sli? No fair, no?" Sums it up quite well, I think.

leng jai
09-14-2008, 12:12 AM
Nadal's slice looks bad next to Federer, but then Federer has the best slice in the business today (perhaps except Santoro? But he doesn't really count because he slices with his forehand) so it is understandable...

No, Nadull's slice looks bad because he uses the wrong grip and technique...

crude oil
10-21-2008, 07:39 AM
Clueless post here.

some perspective on matchups and why slicing isnt the best option against nadal


Q. Seemed to say pretty much the same thing. He said it might be really a left -- or are there a couple other elements that Nadal has?

ANDRE AGASSI: Well, Nadal -- you've got to look at it -- you've got to look at the facts. I mean, Nadal is one of the fastest guys out there, one of the strongest guys out there. The fact that he's a lefty does pose the one possible possibility. I mean, if he's right-handed, Roger is winning that 10 out of 10 times because it's just hard to get that ball to Roger because he can move so well and hurt you in so many ways, you know.

But the left -- Nadal can hit the inside out forehand. If Roger doesn't do something with that, the next ball is way up to the backhand. Then when he slices it, he's slicing it to a guy who has a lot of wrist on his forehand, I mean, he can handle that. I hit that same shot to Roger, he slices it real short to my backhand. I've got to get in with two hands, dig it out, and hope I hit it in a certain spot or else he's going to hurt me with it.

But Nadal can get it over there and whip it any direction, so it's a matchup issue. I mean, that's what gives him the look at Roger so many times, you know. But I just don't believe there's anybody's out there that can put up the numbers Roger has put up over the last two and a half, three years.

Bernard Black
10-21-2008, 02:03 PM
some perspective on matchups and why slicing isnt the best option against nadal


Q. Seemed to say pretty much the same thing. He said it might be really a left -- or are there a couple other elements that Nadal has?

ANDRE AGASSI: Well, Nadal -- you've got to look at it -- you've got to look at the facts. I mean, Nadal is one of the fastest guys out there, one of the strongest guys out there. The fact that he's a lefty does pose the one possible possibility. I mean, if he's right-handed, Roger is winning that 10 out of 10 times because it's just hard to get that ball to Roger because he can move so well and hurt you in so many ways, you know.

But the left -- Nadal can hit the inside out forehand. If Roger doesn't do something with that, the next ball is way up to the backhand. Then when he slices it, he's slicing it to a guy who has a lot of wrist on his forehand, I mean, he can handle that. I hit that same shot to Roger, he slices it real short to my backhand. I've got to get in with two hands, dig it out, and hope I hit it in a certain spot or else he's going to hurt me with it.

But Nadal can get it over there and whip it any direction, so it's a matchup issue. I mean, that's what gives him the look at Roger so many times, you know. But I just don't believe there's anybody's out there that can put up the numbers Roger has put up over the last two and a half, three years.

Great to have some professional insight, thanks. Pretty much spot on from Agassi there too, and does go a long way to explain why the slice was so absent from Federer at Wimbledon this year.

marcRD
10-21-2008, 02:51 PM
some perspective on matchups and why slicing isnt the best option against nadal


Q. Seemed to say pretty much the same thing. He said it might be really a left -- or are there a couple other elements that Nadal has?

ANDRE AGASSI: Well, Nadal -- you've got to look at it -- you've got to look at the facts. I mean, Nadal is one of the fastest guys out there, one of the strongest guys out there. The fact that he's a lefty does pose the one possible possibility. I mean, if he's right-handed, Roger is winning that 10 out of 10 times because it's just hard to get that ball to Roger because he can move so well and hurt you in so many ways, you know.

But the left -- Nadal can hit the inside out forehand. If Roger doesn't do something with that, the next ball is way up to the backhand. Then when he slices it, he's slicing it to a guy who has a lot of wrist on his forehand, I mean, he can handle that. I hit that same shot to Roger, he slices it real short to my backhand. I've got to get in with two hands, dig it out, and hope I hit it in a certain spot or else he's going to hurt me with it.

But Nadal can get it over there and whip it any direction, so it's a matchup issue. I mean, that's what gives him the look at Roger so many times, you know. But I just don't believe there's anybody's out there that can put up the numbers Roger has put up over the last two and a half, three years.


Great stuff for people who think Federer should slice more against Nadal, they dont have a clue about what they are talking about. Nadal is a slice killer, what is even more unreal is that these people think Federer is wrong not to use his slice against Nadal on clay when it doesnt even work on grass.

Bernard Black
02-03-2009, 11:19 AM
some perspective on matchups and why slicing isnt the best option against nadal


Q. Seemed to say pretty much the same thing. He said it might be really a left -- or are there a couple other elements that Nadal has?

ANDRE AGASSI: Well, Nadal -- you've got to look at it -- you've got to look at the facts. I mean, Nadal is one of the fastest guys out there, one of the strongest guys out there. The fact that he's a lefty does pose the one possible possibility. I mean, if he's right-handed, Roger is winning that 10 out of 10 times because it's just hard to get that ball to Roger because he can move so well and hurt you in so many ways, you know.

But the left -- Nadal can hit the inside out forehand. If Roger doesn't do something with that, the next ball is way up to the backhand. Then when he slices it, he's slicing it to a guy who has a lot of wrist on his forehand, I mean, he can handle that. I hit that same shot to Roger, he slices it real short to my backhand. I've got to get in with two hands, dig it out, and hope I hit it in a certain spot or else he's going to hurt me with it.

But Nadal can get it over there and whip it any direction, so it's a matchup issue. I mean, that's what gives him the look at Roger so many times, you know. But I just don't believe there's anybody's out there that can put up the numbers Roger has put up over the last two and a half, three years.

Seemed appropriate to bump this post-Australian Open final.

Tough matchup for Federer! Hope he reads our other thread offering him advice ;)

groundstroke
02-03-2009, 12:04 PM
His slice to Nadal's backhand was causing Nadal all kind of trouble in the final, to Nadal's forehand in the first couple of sets was suicide, but after that.. Fed was slicing to Nadal's forehand and backhand and Nadal wasn't making crazy shots off the slices.

Federer really cannot be blamed tactically for 4 sets, in the 3rd when Nadal had those break points, he played the best he could have and Fed had no chance.

Fifth set his BH dropped and with that, the match went.N

Action Jackson
04-30-2009, 04:52 PM
No point slicing for the sake of it.

Action Jackson
06-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Federer used it quite well at RG, though not that often. Nadal's slice was ineffective under the heavy hitting of Söderling.

Dent should be able to hit some good ones this week.

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Federer used it quite well at RG, though not that often. Nadal's slice was ineffective under the heavy hitting of Söderling.

Dent should be able to hit some good ones this week.

yeah... nadal's slice, while it can reduce the point to a neutral 50/50 ball against most opponents, he was caught out with soderling cos it has nothing on it, it plugs and sits and is not played at the right times so soderling was able to move around, set, wind up and uncoil whenever he wanted... toad likes this...

while federer's had the robin being pulled left and right, or were played after he was moved around - being jerked around the court is the enemy of toadpower..

mcnasty
06-21-2009, 06:38 PM
An evolution of the sport. There were days when players exclusively hit slice backhands, but not anymore and not because players can't (everyone can) but because it's effectiveness is limited in the modern game.

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 06:58 PM
An evolution of the sport. There were days when players exclusively hit slice backhands, but not anymore and not because players can't (everyone can) but because it's effectiveness is limited in the modern game.

yeah... for sure... it was once quite the offensive tool... and, perhaps still can be...

today, i like it when it is used as a holding pattern in the way rafter used to... or, to unravel or change a pattern of play that is successful for the opponent... that's tennis, not just being good at serves and forehands and backhands...

Action Jackson
06-21-2009, 07:04 PM
It can still be used effectively, though obviously the Emilio "I never come over the ball " Sanchez isn't going to be around any more, but it's still effective, when it's actually hit and not just floating.

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 07:08 PM
my fave slice of this year was dent rifling them down to federer... then ghosting in on a good few....

ossie
06-21-2009, 07:13 PM
Ah the slice backhand. Such a wonderfully delicate ballet shot which can open up a plethora of new tactics if utilised correctly. The shot that Rodduck desperately tries to use but fails dismally in any attacking sense. The shot Gonzo has barstardized beyond repair. The shot Federer uses with ease to set up his forehand winners. The shot that Berdych thinks he can smash for winners without bending his knees. The shot that the Fixer has night terrors over.

So I pose this question: Why is the slice so underrented?

Off the top of my head there are several reasons. The death of the serve and volley is a large factor. The slowing of Wimbledon is another. The transformation of the modern game and racquet technology which promotes Nadalesque moonballing and Blakesque ball bashing. I can barely think of any top players who can hit a decent attacking slice. Of course theres Federer, my personal obssession (Haas), Hewit....and now my mind draws a big fat blank.

Its hard to see why a player wouldn't use a low attacking slice more often. It confuses ball bashers like Davydenko, Berdych and Roddick. It negates the big off forehand that 90% of players use, can draw players who can't volley into the net, destroys players who are allergic to bending their knees, extremely effective defensive shot, causes mayhem to the the incoming volleyer who will have no choice but to do a drop volley 90% of the time.

I laugh at the people who think this is one of the best eras in tennis.the slice is just an inferior technique. just because fedex could use it without any risk against the pathetic players of his era (roddicks/hewitts) doesnt mean itll work against real spartans like murray/nadal/the djoker.

BodyServe
06-21-2009, 07:21 PM
Anyone remember that backhand slice by Gonzalez against Hanescu at the FO?

Most powerfull BH slice you will ever see, hell of a shot.

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 07:25 PM
the slice is just an inferior technique. just because fedex could use it without any risk against the pathetic players of his era (roddicks/hewitts) doesnt mean itll work against real spartans like murray/nadal/the djoker.

they weren't too pathetic... just pretty good at the couple of things they did at the turn of eras... people shouldn't confuse that... not pathetic, just limited opportunists... hewitt actually can play a couple of different styles, but cant get himself out of that mental place which has him doing the same sh!t he always does... stubborness is an extreme strength and a weakness, and discredits himself for not exploring another facet of his game in actual game time earlier in his career...

in regards to the slice with hewitt, he usually only ever slices when someone propositions him with a slice, just a response shot for the most part, nothing else...

murray is a tennis player... he can go through whole chunks of a match holding down a mostly slice pattern of play once he knows he can get away with it with a particular opponent... then, change it up... but, then again, he is The Tradesman... he owns the tools...

and so... expected...

habibko
06-21-2009, 07:27 PM
my fave slice of this year was dent rifling them down to federer... then ghosting in on a good few....

absolutely, some of those slice approach shots to Fed's backhand were unbelievable, even Fed with his extreme backhand spin and magical wrist couldn't bring them up the net, Dent :worship:

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 07:28 PM
Anyone remember that backhand slice by Gonzalez against Hanescu at the FO?

Most powerfull BH slice you will ever see, hell of a shot.

gonzalez slice is often forgotten when talking slice and i don't know why this is cos its so predominant in his game... that is why i am nominating your post as a candidate for Post Of The Year 2009...

slice is nice...

MacTheKnife
06-21-2009, 07:35 PM
It is still an effective shot when hit properly and used in the right situations as an attacking weapon. For a while guys were only using it defensively, but most of the top guys are employing it again offensively. Obviously, some are just better at it than others.

BodyServe
06-21-2009, 07:35 PM
gonzalez slice is often forgotten when talking slice and i don't know why this is cos its so predominant in his game... that is why i am nominating your post as a candidate for Post Of The Year 2009...

slice is nice...

In this particular shot, he was late on the ball so he tried to slice it as hard as possible while running. Hanescu was on the ball but couldn't do anything other than hitting it in the bottom of the net.

Shame there is no video.

Action Jackson
06-21-2009, 07:39 PM
my fave slice of this year was dent rifling them down to federer... then ghosting in on a good few....

That is how you hit the slice, it has to be done with conviction, not just for the sake of it.

fast_clay
06-21-2009, 07:39 PM
absolutely, some of those slice approach shots to Fed's backhand were unbelievable, even Fed with his extreme backhand spin and magical wrist couldn't bring them up the net, Dent :worship:

yes... Dent acheives proper rotation and flight with his attacking slice...

people often forget that, while a heavily topspun shot can be difficult to master with an open face, the exact same can be said in the direction of slice to topspin...

Bernard Black
06-24-2009, 11:42 AM
yes... Dent acheives proper rotation and flight with his attacking slice...

people often forget that, while a heavily topspun shot can be difficult to master with an open face, the exact same can be said in the direction of slice to topspin...

Yep, great post. Seems it's just not a comfortable shot for most pros today, since they haven't naturally developed it as a junior and I doubt they spend much time practicing it when the backhand bludgeon is getting the job done.

What few offensive slices I've seen this week have been effective though, even on this higher bouncing grass. As Action Jackson points out, if you actually hit the shot with conviction, follow it in, you'll get the point won more often than not simply from the pressure you put on the opponent digging that ball out, forcing them to hit up for an easy volley. Kendrick hit a few yesterday that caused Murray's backhand to crumble, but couldn't keep it up.

Action Jackson
06-24-2009, 11:52 AM
One of the Aussie commentators and former player Josh Eagle made some comment about the new strings making the slice a lot harder to control than before.

leng jai
06-24-2009, 11:53 AM
I doubt its the strings, players these days are just clowns. Fedmug and Haasi are still hitting the slice as well as they ever have. Unless they are still using old school strings.

fast_clay
06-29-2009, 01:07 AM
finally has been a talking point amongst friends and colleagues, and not just me babbling on like some deranged city corner hobo... strangely enough though, it is the slice forehand which is gaining the most attention, such is murray;s want to employ it... i cant say i told you so to them, cos, it sounds twatish... but, i am gaining private satisfaction in murray's use of what seems like 'club level' shot selection to diffuse one dimensional ball-bashers... and no, gulbis throwing in more than a couple of outrageously sh!thuse dropshots does not constitute someone becoming more than one dimensional...

Har-Tru
06-29-2009, 02:40 AM
it definitely should be used more, but real grass wouldn't hurt.

leng jai
06-29-2009, 08:17 AM
Fedmug, Haasi and Hewitt still using it effectively at Wimby. Gave Del Pony and Cilic fits.

Machiavelli
06-29-2009, 08:21 AM
Haas used the slice against Cilic as a great weapon, it damaged Marin a lot, just awful to see the younger generation has no feel at all for this wonderful shot

Action Jackson
06-29-2009, 08:22 AM
The slice forehand, a shot that peasants like myself play when out of position, getting usage on the pro tour haha.

Machiavelli
06-29-2009, 08:37 AM
The slice forehand, a shot that peasants like myself play when out of position, getting usage on the pro tour haha.

No disgrace in using the fh slice, especially when you are chasing a ball, or to play it as a surprise shot, I use it myself on clay on amateur club level, and 90% of my opponents don't know what do do with it, same goes for tge pro players, that Bolittieri and russian school of ballbashing is ridiculous, watching players hit numerous risky drive volleys instead of easy, normal and oldschool put-away volleys is sad....

Action Jackson
06-29-2009, 08:47 AM
No disgrace in using the fh slice, especially when you are chasing a ball, or to play it as a surprise shot, I use it myself on clay on amateur club level, and 90% of my opponents don't know what do do with it, same goes for tge pro players, that Bolittieri and russian school of ballbashing is ridiculous, watching players hit numerous risky drive volleys instead of easy, normal and oldschool put-away volleys is sad....

I know my level and what I can and can't get away with it. It's effective on clay for sure, but since I moved to Australia, haven't been able to play on the surface of champions as much. At the same time it definitely works.

Funny thing with the Russian ballbashers is that most of them weren't trained in Russia, especially the development stages that gear them for the tour.

Like I said at the start of the thread and still say it now, the slice when used in the right way and not just junk can still work.

fast_clay
06-30-2009, 01:15 AM
haasi smothered igor's heavy-as-f*** forehand with the slice today... sitting on the left baseline it was a joy to watch the backhand... hardly rolled anything... chip return also was knifing into the grass heavy like... igor had to bend his knees point after point...

Action Jackson
07-10-2009, 05:20 PM
It was good to see fast_clay.

NadalSharapova
07-10-2009, 05:20 PM
cos its an ugly shot

Bernard Black
07-10-2009, 06:08 PM
You've obviously only seen Nadal's forehand grip slice.

Action Jackson
07-22-2009, 05:20 PM
It's a sexy slice though Bernie.

dam0dred
07-22-2009, 05:38 PM
I love the slice and use it all the time when I play, but pros don't use it anymore because it's not an effective shot in the modern game.

As much as the genius experts and analysts we have here on MTF would like to claim otherwise, don't you think that if it was an important shot that the world class coaches and professional tennis players would practice and implement it? It's not as if it just, oops, never occurred to these players and coaches to use the slice more often.

You can bitch all you want (justifiably so at times) but things like the slice and S&V tennis didn't just magically disappear to piss you off. There is a reason.

MacTheKnife
07-22-2009, 05:53 PM
I love the slice and use it all the time when I play, but pros don't use it anymore because it's not an effective shot in the modern game.

As much as the genius experts and analysts we have here on MTF would like to claim otherwise, don't you think that if it was an important shot that the world class coaches and professional tennis players would practice and implement it? It's not as if it just, oops, never occurred to these players and coaches to use the slice more often.

You can bitch all you want (justifiably so at times) but things like the slice and S&V tennis didn't just magically disappear to piss you off. There is a reason.

And that's exactly what's happening right now. You seriously have not noticed more and more use of the slice. Tennis like most other sports is cyclical. It's like the one handed BH that has died more times than a cat with 9 lives, and yet continues to be employed by younger players.

Action Jackson
07-22-2009, 05:55 PM
Haas used it to take apart Andreev at Wimbledon. Fed uses it and it hasn't hurt him career wise.

Murray uses it not hurting him. Funniest was seeing Seppi and Andreev having a slicing battle on the backhand side.

Dougie
07-22-2009, 05:57 PM
And that's exactly what's happening right now. You seriously have not noticed more and more use of the slice. Tennis like most other sports is cyclical. It's like the one handed BH that has died more times than a cat with 9 lives, and yet continues to be employed by younger players.


Yup, within a few years we´ll see an updated version of Emilio Sanchez! Pure slice!

straitup
07-22-2009, 05:58 PM
I love slice approaches and a random slice here and there, but I despise slice rallies. Like where both players slice the ball crosscourt back and forth for 30 shots.

MacTheKnife
07-22-2009, 06:04 PM
I love slice approaches and a random slice here and there, but I despise slice rallies. Like where both players slice the ball crosscourt back and forth for 30 shots.

Well don't get carried away guys. I surely did not mean that. It's simply that guys will continue to figure out ways to win, and employing a slice is now one of those ways that has become unique again. The days of seeing a Rosewall with nothing but slice are long gone.

straitup
07-22-2009, 06:13 PM
Well don't get carried away guys. I surely did not mean that. It's simply that guys will continue to figure out ways to win, and employing a slice is now one of those ways that has become unique again. The days of seeing a Rosewall with nothing but slice are long gone.

:lol: I wasn't getting carried away...just making an observation about the slice.

Action Jackson
07-22-2009, 06:18 PM
Yup, within a few years we´ll see an updated version of Emilio Sanchez! Pure slice!

I think Emilio tried to hit topspin once and it went out of the court.

Har-Tru
07-22-2009, 06:56 PM
Next step: learn how to make it a weapon.

ballbasher101
07-22-2009, 08:39 PM
A lot of players have the doublehanded backhand thus most of them have absolutely shite slices. If you have a poor slice using it will be suicidal to say the least. These days players will hit winners off of poor slices. If you have a good slice shot you can still use it effectively. Murray has a wonderful slice even though he has a doublehander. Santoro uses the slice well and Federer also.

Dougie
07-22-2009, 08:50 PM
I think Emilio tried to hit topspin once and it went out of the court.

The same has been said about Javier, but I´m pretty sure it´s only a rumour.

Clydey
07-22-2009, 09:55 PM
Next step: learn how to make it a weapon.

There are various players who do use it as a weapon.

ForehandWinner
07-22-2009, 10:01 PM
May be there aren't many that slice. Is it really underrated though?

Har-Tru
07-22-2009, 10:07 PM
There are various players who do use it as a weapon.

Example. I mean a straight offensive weapon.

ORGASMATRON
07-22-2009, 10:22 PM
Underrented is an english word?

Clydey
07-22-2009, 10:56 PM
Example. I mean a straight offensive weapon.

Federer, Murray, Haas, Dent. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

Har-Tru
07-22-2009, 11:22 PM
Federer, Murray, Haas, Dent. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

No, no, no, haven't seen him enough.

Clydey
07-22-2009, 11:31 PM
No, no, no, haven't seen him enough.

Wow, I guess that settles the argument.

I wish I could say "No" with such conviction that it settles a dispute.

fast_clay
07-23-2009, 12:32 AM
Example. I mean a straight offensive weapon.

Leng Jai found Nadal's slice pretty offensive earlier on this year... hurt him pretty bad... said he coughed up a bit of pineapple from a hawaiian pizza he'd had the day before...

Bargearse
07-23-2009, 06:23 AM
I reckon the slice is a difficult shot to learn. I could never slice worth a damn. Federer uses it well. Roddick certainly tries. He's been persisting with it for years and years and it's gotten better tho still not great.

I don't think it's underrated, I just think a lot of players can't play a decent one so they don't bother.

Action Jackson
09-14-2009, 01:54 PM
Fedclown will use it tonight and show up del Potro.

Chiseller
09-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Since I've never played on a top level I can't judge how hard it is but for me, the slice is the easiest shot in the book.

Clydey
09-14-2009, 02:50 PM
Since I've never played on a top level I can't judge how hard it is but for me, the slice is the easiest shot in the book.

Easy to perform. Much harder to master.

Chiseller
09-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Easy to perform. Much harder to master.
That applies to almost every shot.

Clydey
09-14-2009, 03:07 PM
That applies to almost every shot.

The last part does. There are degrees, though. Forehands and backhands are harder to learn, but easier to get down. You're not going to possess a great slice if you rarely use it. Every player can hit forehands and backhands. It's basic and you're hitting them constantly. The slice is different. Anyone can float a slice. Very few can use it both defensively and offensively, though.

leng jai
09-14-2009, 03:13 PM
Its not rocket science. The only players that have really good slices are those that implement it into their game full time ie. Haas, Federer and S&Vers.

Bernard Black
09-14-2009, 03:14 PM
Awesome bump, great to see the slice making a comeback and being so effective on hard courts as well as grass.

Hopefully the young prospects are taking note of what a useful weapon it is to have in your arsenal and start practicing.

leng jai
09-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Awesome bump, great to see the slice making a comeback and being so effective on hard courts as well as grass.

Hopefully the young prospects are taking note of what a useful weapon it is to have in your arsenal and start practicing.

You're a funny bugga!

Clydey
09-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Its not rocket science. The only players that have really good slices are those that implement it into their game full time ie. Haas, Federer and S&Vers.

Throw ol' Clydey a bone and include Murray in that.

Good lad.

Action Jackson
09-14-2009, 03:17 PM
It will depend on the coaches teaching the teenagers and kids today, if they use Federer as an example, then the slice won't be underrented.

leng jai
09-14-2009, 03:19 PM
Throw ol' Clydey a bone and include Murray in that.

Good lad.

Nah, I left him out just so you could call me out on it <3

Clydey
09-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Nah, I left him out just so you could call me out on it <3

No one could ever accuse me of being unpredictable, at least not in this context.

Chiseller
09-14-2009, 03:37 PM
The last part does. There are degrees, though. Forehands and backhands are harder to learn, but easier to get down. You're not going to possess a great slice if you rarely use it. Every player can hit forehands and backhands. It's basic and you're hitting them constantly. The slice is different. Anyone can float a slice. Very few can use it both defensively and offensively, though.

That's all correct, but it's the easiest one as far as I am concerned. If you take a look at the post above mine (Bargearse's), you will get why I was saying that.

leng jai
09-14-2009, 03:38 PM
The forehand is the easiest shot in tennis to learn.

Chiseller
09-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Not for a natural backhander. ;)

Bernard Black
09-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Its not rocket science. The only players that have really good slices are those that implement it into their game full time ie. Haas, Federer and S&Vers.

Yep, that's it.

We saw Djokovic try the slice a few times yesterday but that was clearly someone with no confidence in the shot or knowledge of how to use it effectively. Federer's is a class apart, no doubt.

leng jai
09-14-2009, 03:52 PM
Not for a natural backhander. ;)

Well the backhand is inherently an unnatural shot, so "natural backhanders" are in the minority.

Yep, that's it.

We saw Djokovic try the slice a few times yesterday but that was clearly someone with no confidence in the shot or knowledge of how to use it effectively. Federer's is a class apart, no doubt.

There was this point in the third set on Fedclown's serve at his AD. Fakervic had a the opening to hit a backhand down the line but instead he tries a short slice straight to Fedclown's forehand. The result: easy off forehand approach and putaway volley. I literally facepalmed myself...

Action Jackson
09-14-2009, 03:54 PM
It's like anything timing is the key.

Chiseller
09-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Awesome, mtf fucked up my post. Again:

Well the backhand is inherently an unnatural shot, so "natural backhanders" are in the minority.
Neither the forehand nor the backhand is natural or unnatural shot per se. You can generate more power with your forehand but that doesn't imply anything.
I was more or less kidding but everyone has a tendency towards one side from an early age one. Though, good backhanders are a rarity, indeed. ;)

stebs
09-14-2009, 06:20 PM
Neither the forehand nor the backhand is natural or unnatural shot per se. You can generate more power with your forehand but that doesn't imply anything.
I was more or less kidding but everyone has a tendency towards one side from an early age one. Though, good backhanders are a rarity, indeed. ;)

Further even than rarity I think. At a young age, kids prefering the backhand wing are almost non-existant.

serveandvolley80
09-14-2009, 07:10 PM
If it was not for Federer having success with the one handed back hand and the back handed slice, i swear less and less players would be trained in it and it would die off slowly.

But i think his success has motivated copycats and more and more young players are coming out with the 1 handed back hand and the slice is being used more and more, especially at the junior level.

Clearly an example of a player having a huge influence on the game. Thank god it was not just Nadal, otherwise 10 years from now all we would get is moon balling pushers.

straitup
09-14-2009, 07:33 PM
Do people in other countries use the word underrented? Because if not this title still bugs the hell out of me

habibko
09-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Do people in other countries use the word underrented? Because if not this title still bugs the hell out of me

it's an MTF meme..

JamesBengt
09-14-2009, 08:35 PM
Further even than rarity I think. At a young age, kids prefering the backhand wing are almost non-existant.

Both me and my brothers have preferred the backhand over the forehand. Granted, I started using a one-hander later and completely fuck it up nowadays...

But yeah, the forehand is a more "natural" shot and the vast majority of the pros are better on that wing.

leng jai
09-15-2009, 01:28 AM
Australian coverage is only up to 6-3 3-2 here and Del Pony can't handle the slice at all. Can't believe he lost this match.

fast_clay
09-15-2009, 01:46 AM
yeah... del potro up his pace of shot at the same time federer began to stop mixing it up... fed was standing with his toes on the baseline for most of the first two sets, dinking, chipping, taking everything early and giving del potro different looks... the slice went back in the racquet bag largely beyond teh second set, though, when it did appear it did have del potro scratching for answers...

federer was either not able or refused to use the slice, and decided to trade in a slugfest...

leng jai
09-15-2009, 01:48 AM
As usual, Fedclown trying to show us his GOAT flat backhand.

Bernard Black
09-15-2009, 01:57 AM
It was a shocker, mate.

Literally 101 ways Federer could have won this match but instead he chooses the only way he can lose, to go down in a slugfest. Backhand slice was working marvellously for the first set and a half but mysteriously disappeared beyond that point. Federer just too stubborn to win the easy way and wanted to outhit Del Potro on the backhand side - it just wasn't going to happen. I felt it mirrored a lot of the Nadal vs Federer matches in that all Del Potro had to do was remain solid, plant himself metres behind the baseline to retrieve everything, hit mainly to Federer's backhand and let the Swiss beat himself.

leng jai
09-15-2009, 02:25 AM
Up to the fifth set now. Absolute mug tactics from Fedclown in this match. What a disgrace for the slice backhand that this guy is probably the best exponent of it..

Action Jackson
09-26-2009, 06:57 PM
Now the theory goes that del Potro is slice proof.

leng jai
09-27-2009, 01:13 AM
Juan Slice Proof Del Pony. Best name on the ATP.

Clay Death
09-27-2009, 01:28 AM
yeah... del potro up his pace of shot at the same time federer began to stop mixing it up... fed was standing with his toes on the baseline for most of the first two sets, dinking, chipping, taking everything early and giving del potro different looks... the slice went back in the racquet bag largely beyond teh second set, though, when it did appear it did have del potro scratching for answers...

federer was either not able or refused to use the slice, and decided to trade in a slugfest...

there is a lot of truth here. good post.

i may just add one thing that is not being talked about at all:

the outburst. he lost his cool.

the outburst or the meltdown took his focus away from the challenge at hand. it was a variable with some weight in that loss.


http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/sparta4.jpg

leng jai
09-27-2009, 01:31 AM
Rogerer No Slice Fedclown.

Clay Death
09-27-2009, 01:35 AM
Rogerer No Slice Fedclown.


I.B. Sliceless

swisht4u
09-28-2009, 03:28 AM
It was a shocker, mate.

Literally 101 ways Federer could have won this match but instead he chooses the only way he can lose, to go down in a slugfest. Backhand slice was working marvellously for the first set and a half but mysteriously disappeared beyond that point. Federer just too stubborn to win the easy way and wanted to outhit Del Potro on the backhand side - it just wasn't going to happen. I felt it mirrored a lot of the Nadal vs Federer matches in that all Del Potro had to do was remain solid, plant himself metres behind the baseline to retrieve everything, hit mainly to Federer's backhand and let the Swiss beat himself.

Mostly how I saw it, it seemed Fed wanted to show Potro he could outhit him, while doing this he left all of his other skills at home.

It reminded me of a fight, Sugar Ray Leonard's first fight against Roberto Duran, who was a slugger. Leonard decided to just play Duran's macho game of slugging it out.. and lost.
Leonard has many tools in the ring but left them at home, getting caught up in the macho game.

The next fight Leonard used all his skills and beat Duran badly.

That's what I saw.

Action Jackson
09-28-2009, 03:33 AM
As usual, Fedclown trying to show us his GOAT flat backhand.

Without a doubt and as Bernie said he wanted to out bash him.

Mechlan
09-28-2009, 03:36 AM
I thought Nadal was stupid for not slicing more in the semi, Federer wanted to go one better I guess.

Action Jackson
09-28-2009, 03:41 AM
I thought Nadal was stupid for not slicing more in the semi, Federer wanted to go one better I guess.

Fedclown has a quality slice, Nadal has a junk slice.

Mechlan
09-28-2009, 03:48 AM
Fedclown has a quality slice, Nadal has a junk slice.

Funny thing is even Nadal's slice bothered Pony the few times he tried to change it up. Unfortunately for Nadal 99% of the match was him hitting that lefty forehand crosscourt.

Clay Death
09-28-2009, 03:53 AM
I thought Nadal was stupid for not slicing more in the semi, Federer wanted to go one better I guess.


clay monster did well to get to the semis. forget about him. he had a 15 mm gash in his abdominal muscle. there is nothing more he could have done.

so not only he had been out of the sport and was not able to even practice for a while, he also managed to strain his abdominal muscle which would not go away and would eventually rupture against his AlMUGro.

so forget about the clay monster. and he has no slice to speak of anyway. he will need several months to get healthy and fit again.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/sparta4.jpg

Dougie
09-28-2009, 05:55 AM
I thought Nadal was stupid for not slicing more in the semi, Federer wanted to go one better I guess.

Nadal´s slice isn´t good enough to be used as a weapon against a player like Del Potro. He wasn´t able to keep it low, there wasn´t any spike or angles in it, it was a sitting duck for Del Potro. Del Potro has no trouble with defensive slices. Nadal can´t really hit a good, attacking slice which is the only kind of slice that causes problems for Del Potro.

Mechlan
09-28-2009, 06:49 AM
Nadal´s slice isn´t good enough to be used as a weapon against a player like Del Potro. He wasn´t able to keep it low, there wasn´t any spike or angles in it, it was a sitting duck for Del Potro. Del Potro has no trouble with defensive slices. Nadal can´t really hit a good, attacking slice which is the only kind of slice that causes problems for Del Potro.

Nadal definitely hit slices that bothered Del Potro in their match, I remember making a note of it in the post-match thread. Nadal's slice is not aggressive like Federer's, but it is also not so poor that it's not worth hitting to mix things up against Del Potro.

fast_clay
09-28-2009, 11:48 AM
yeah... nadal's slice doesnt have that laser like path and pace to have del potro quickly reaching for an answer around his shins... for the most part it's a floater which just plugs and sits around the baseline which by the time it is struck has no pace in it - which can actually be pretty handy when used in combination with the heavily rotating balls his forehand will produce - junk slice does have a place, but, i dont think it was used in that fashion vs del potro... its not pretty, but nadal's junk slice return which is usually pretty effective in resetting the point to 50/50 just wasn't working in the USO semis and del potro was just walking through it so early in the point...

federer's slice backhand and open face forehand dinks and dropshots on the otherhand looked a total masterclass for a set and 3/4's... it looked as though federer was just executing the perfect mix to go along with the loaded forehand... del potro was in two minds about where to actually plant himself, federer just resetting del potro's base... but... by set 3, del potro was pretty much moving in straight lines behind the baseline... yeah... why is the slice so underrented...?

8pNADAL
09-28-2009, 01:30 PM
I think you either buy the slice or you don't, there is no renting, you must be an expert in real estate to win with it.

fast_clay
09-28-2009, 01:44 PM
I think you either buy the slice or you don't, there is no renting, you must be an expert in real estate to win with it.

you are on to something there... federer underrented it by about 2 sets... had he invested wisely, bought it outright... then, game over, diff result...

8pNADAL
09-28-2009, 02:00 PM
you are on to something there... federer underrented it by about 2 sets... had he invested wisely, bought it outright... then, game over, diff result...

For sure, and this is a good example of why Federer needs a coach, since he no longer is able to rely on natural ability as much, he relies on judgement which isn't always correct.

Nidhogg
09-28-2009, 04:24 PM
For sure, and this is a good example of why Federer needs a coach, since he no longer is able to rely on natural ability as much, he relies on judgement which isn't always correct.

If you cut down your constant trolling others might appreciate the few posts of yours with any substance, like this one. Then again, that probably isn't on your agenda.

Federer hasn't really needed to focus on his opponents weaknesses up until these last two years, save for when he played a certain Nadal. Federer probably appreciated the challenge of beating such a for him ridiculous matchup, and he wanted to do it the fancy way, which often was a bit too much to ask.

8pNADAL
09-28-2009, 05:54 PM
If you cut down your constant trolling others might appreciate the few posts of yours with any substance, like this one. Then again, that probably isn't on your agenda.

Federer hasn't really needed to focus on his opponents weaknesses up until these last two years, save for when he played a certain Nadal. Federer probably appreciated the challenge of beating such a for him ridiculous matchup, and he wanted to do it the fancy way, which often was a bit too much to ask.

What is "troll"? I just post my opinion, use whatever babyish word you want but all I do is post my opinion.

Nidhogg
09-28-2009, 06:07 PM
Yes, not only have you forgotten about your other account here. You're also totally new to all internet slang. Do you actually believe you're fooling anyone except for maybe yourself? :spit:

DJ Soup
09-28-2009, 06:21 PM
What is "troll"? I just post my opinion, use whatever babyish word you want but all I do is post my opinion.

it is not about the opinion but about the WAY you present an opinion.

One same opinion can be valid if you present it in a reasonable, respectful, open-minded way.
That same opinion can be shit and trolling if you present it in an illogical, close-minded, disrespectful, overhyping way.

Clay Death
09-28-2009, 11:22 PM
you are on to something there... federer underrented it by about 2 sets... had he invested wisely, bought it outright... then, game over, diff result...



cheers fast clay.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/chivas01-01.jpg





http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/sparta4.jpg

8pNADAL
09-29-2009, 03:00 AM
it is not about the opinion but about the WAY you present an opinion.

One same opinion can be valid if you present it in a reasonable, respectful, open-minded way.
That same opinion can be shit and trolling if you present it in an illogical, close-minded, disrespectful, overhyping way.

No, I have none of those personality traits, why don't you quote the instances that you think those traits are apparent? If you can't then you're just a hater who doesn't agree with my opinions.

8pNADAL
09-29-2009, 03:02 AM
Yes, not only have you forgotten about your other account here. You're also totally new to all internet slang. Do you actually believe you're fooling anyone except for maybe yourself? :spit:

If you're talking to me you're sadly mistaken, there is no other account.

oranges
09-29-2009, 01:55 PM
If you're talking to me you're sadly mistaken, there is no other account.

This must be the most pathetic case of insisting on "No, I'm not that guy" ever. It must be you soul twin :lol:

Everko
09-29-2009, 01:57 PM
If you're talking to me you're sadly mistaken, there is no other account.

Ignore the hate

Nidhogg
09-29-2009, 03:32 PM
If you're talking to me you're sadly mistaken, there is no other account.

Of course there isn't. :hug:

Chiseller
09-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Good use of the quote function. :yeah:

leng jai
10-21-2009, 08:51 AM
The low attacking slice down the line needs to be reinstated. After Haashole and Fedclown retire, it'll probably never be rented again.

Sophocles
10-21-2009, 10:48 AM
The odd fast low-bouncing court would help.

Jimnik
10-21-2009, 10:49 AM
At least there's Murray.

Does Dimitrov not slice? Maybe Tomic will give it a go.

petar_pan
10-21-2009, 03:11 PM
problaby because nowdays players doesn't know to hit a slice.

p.s. when i play with my friend i always hit just slices and always win.

petar_pan
10-21-2009, 03:13 PM
The low attacking slice down the line needs to be reinstated. After Haashole and Fedclown retire, it'll probably never be rented again.

murray ancic and karlovic do that too.
my favourite shot when i am playing.

where is that old good grass court tennis which ivanisevic played

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
10-21-2009, 09:15 PM
the slice is still effective on grass

its just that wimbledon is no longer grass, it is now green clay- it became like this so that moonballing spaniards wouldn't feel left out and also

there is a secret conspiracy in the atp to kill off serve and volley

therefore the secret conspiracy must be stopped

http://files.myopera.com/operaton/albums/859797/George-Bush-Funny.gif

Sapeod
10-21-2009, 09:50 PM
Murray is keeping the slice alive :rocker2: