Spanish players and double barrel names [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Spanish players and double barrel names

Henry Chinaski
01-30-2008, 02:57 PM
What exactly is the story with this? The players near the top of the game all go by one surname and the journeymen that have been around for ages but most of the younger lower-ranked players go by 2 surnames.

Is it something they're forced to do at registration or a choice? I ask this because guys like Navarro (Pastor) and Almagro (Sanchez) dropped their second surname when they became more well known....

scoobs
01-30-2008, 02:59 PM
I read somewhere that all Spaniards have two surnames, by law. Don't know if that's true.

But most of them drop one when they become more noticeable, like Nadal is really Rafael Nadal Parera, etc

Action Jackson
01-30-2008, 03:00 PM
The mother and the fathers surnames are used on the birth certificates and the Portuguese do it as well.

Felix Mantilla Botella
Rafael Nadal Parera
Àlex Corretja Verdegay

Deivid23
01-30-2008, 03:01 PM
:haha: OMFG

Saumon
01-30-2008, 03:04 PM
When Nadal played Wimbledon the year he beat Ancic, he was "Nadal Parera" on the scoreboard.

Deivid23
01-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Is it something they're forced to do at registration or a choice? I ask this because guys like Navarro (Pastor) and Almagro (Sanchez) dropped their second surname when they became more well known....

What a couple of ungrateful pricks :o :lol:

LeChuck
01-30-2008, 03:15 PM
Yes in Spain people are required to have a double barrelled surname by law. The father's surname usually comes before's the mother's, and many people are only referred to by their first/paternal surname in common, everyday use.

Henry Chinaski
01-30-2008, 03:16 PM
:haha: OMFG

eh?

Merton
01-30-2008, 03:18 PM
It is the Romans fault.

supermarioo
01-30-2008, 03:26 PM
In Spain the woman doesn't lose her surnames when she gets married, so, the children gets not only 2 but infinite surnames: the first of the father, then the first of the mother, then the second of the father... and so on.

Me for example I can only recall 10 surnames, but you can do a little research and find hundreds of them.

My name is ***** ***** ****** oliva sebastián garcia del campo berdugo garcia cercadillo de dios:p

And the "-" symbol that they put (sanchez-vicario) is just because they want the surname of the mother to be present, so they "merge" both surnames into one, with the - symbol, and the atp/wta computers only have room for one surname:wavey:

Bilbo
01-30-2008, 03:32 PM
weird laws they have in spain :p

Adler
01-30-2008, 04:01 PM
There even was a case in European Tribunal about these surnames (known as Carlos Garcia Avello case). A person from Spain married another one from Belgium, Belgium didn't understand these spanish surnames regulations and all the shit started

~*BGT*~
01-30-2008, 04:51 PM
In Spain the woman doesn't lose her surnames when she gets married, so, the children gets not only 2 but infinite surnames: the first of the father, then the first of the mother, then the second of the father... and so on.

Me for example I can only recall 10 surnames, but you can do a little research and find hundreds of them.

My name is ***** ***** ****** oliva sebastián garcia del campo berdugo garcia cercadillo de dios:p

And the "-" symbol that they put (sanchez-vicario) is just because they want the surname of the mother to be present, so they "merge" both surnames into one, with the - symbol, and the atp/wta computers only have room for one surname:wavey:

That sounds like hard work. :lol: I have 4. My first name, my middle name, my former last name (which is my mother's last name), and my current last name (which is my father's last name).

Action Jackson
06-06-2008, 06:13 PM
Marcel Granollers-Pujol, has dropped the Pujol now.

Carles ("Carlos") Costa Masferrer
Albert Costa Casals
Fernando Vicente Filba

ChinoRios4Ever
06-06-2008, 06:24 PM
in Southamerica we have 2 names and 2 surnames :shrug:

what's the problem?

FluffyYellowBall
06-06-2008, 07:05 PM
Aranxta Sanches is still sometimes reffered to as Sanchez-Vicario..:confused:

I like Parera though:cool:

Del_Toro
06-06-2008, 07:56 PM
in Southamerica we have 2 names and 2 surnames :shrug:

what's the problem?

In Mexico, Central America and The Caribbean as well. It's easier to understand how it works if you tries.

Anyway most people in latin america have a nickname and the complete name it's only used for official stuff (like Passports, wedding certificates, etc.)

Jelena
06-06-2008, 08:00 PM
In Mexico, Central America and The Caribbean as well. It's easier to understand how it works if you tries.

Anyway most people in latin america have a nickname and the complete name it's only used for official stuff (like Passports, wedding certificates, etc.)
Imagine Kaká always referred as: Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite Idade. :bolt: As far as I know he himself only uses Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite. But still Kaká is far shorter during a football match. :lol:

vma
06-06-2008, 08:50 PM
Ŕlex Corretja Verdegay

poor Alex :sad:

Henry Chinaski
06-06-2008, 09:01 PM
in Southamerica we have 2 names and 2 surnames :shrug:

what's the problem?


I never said it was a problem. I was curious to know the reason so many lesser known players had double barrel names when they presumably don't use them in everday life given that they often drop one of them as they become better known.

Zirconek
06-06-2008, 09:06 PM
Imagine Kaká always referred as: Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite Idade. :bolt: As far as I know he himself only uses Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite. But still Kaká is far shorter during a football match. :lol:

I'm sure Idade is not his last surname ;)
I guess there was a number after "Idade" where you got his name :lol:

Zirconek
06-06-2008, 09:08 PM
I never said it was a problem. I was curious to know the reason so many lesser known players had double barrel names when they presumably don't use them in everday life given that they often drop one of them as they become better known.

it seems they use the double barrel names to avoid/reduce players with same name (homonimous). When they reach the elite, they drop the mother's name.

Jelena
06-06-2008, 09:09 PM
I'm sure Idade is not his last surname ;)
I guess there was a number after "Idade" where you got his name :lol:
I saw in different "statistical" introductions which were added to interviews with him in sportpapers "Idade" as his last name, though I'm quite sure he himself ends his name with "Leite".

Del_Toro
06-06-2008, 09:10 PM
I'm sure Idade is not his last surname ;)
I guess there was a number after "Idade" where you got his name :lol:

You are right. "Idade" means "Age" in portuguese. In spanish it's almost the same word: "Edad"

So "Idade" most likely refers to Kaká's age.

Andre♥
06-06-2008, 09:10 PM
The mother and the fathers surnames are used on the birth certificates and the Portuguese do it as well.

Actually in Portugal we can get as many surnames, as we want to, as long my parents also have them. For example after my name (Andre), I have my mother's surname and then the surname of my grandma (my dad's mom) and then the surname of my grandpa (my dad's dad).

So, besides my full name, I could also have Meireles and Sousa! :p

Also it's common to see people with 5/6 surnames after their names.

Black Adam
06-06-2008, 09:11 PM
At least they keep track of their heritage. I Ethiopia you just take you father's first name and use it as your surname and so on for your kids. If they were Ethiopians, it would be Novak Srdjan or Maria Yuri :lol: Or Venus and Serena Richard.

Jelena
06-06-2008, 09:12 PM
You are right. "Idade" means "Age" in portuguese. In spanish it's almost the same word: "Edad"

So "Idade" most likely refers to Kaká's age.
I know that as I study portuguese. :)

Andre♥
06-06-2008, 09:15 PM
Still about Portuguese people: as an example, Frederico Gil's full name is João Frederico Limpo Franco Gil. :lol:

Btw limpo means clean in portuguese and franco means straightforward! :lol:

Jelena
06-06-2008, 09:17 PM
Still about Portuguese people: as an example, Frederico Gil's full name is Joăo Frederico Limpo Franco Gil. :lol:
I have to admit a "Vamos Fred!" is far more comfortable. :lol:

ChinoRios4Ever
06-06-2008, 09:30 PM
for example

chileans tennis players full names:
- Marcelo Andres Rios Mayorga
- Nicolas Alejandro Massú Fried
- Fernando Francisco Gonzalez Ciuffardi
- Paul Gerard Capdeville Castro

the last one is too funny :lol:

TankingTheSet
06-06-2008, 09:36 PM
I still find it bit strange that the Spanish federation or something forces all Spanish low-ranked players to use the double names. Everywhere they travel on the tour they are called by that double name, even in the press when they win, but it is not how they want to be called (just the father's last name in most cases).

TankingTheSet
06-06-2008, 09:38 PM
Still about Portuguese people: as an example, Frederico Gil's full name is Joăo Frederico Limpo Franco Gil. :lol:

Btw limpo means clean in portuguese and franco means straightforward! :lol:

If he had "limpo" in his name for tennis there would be a lot of jokes about him from English speakers. :devil:

Zirconek
06-06-2008, 09:40 PM
I saw in different "statistical" introductions which were added to interviews with him in sportpapers "Idade" as his last name, though I'm quite sure he himself ends his name with "Leite".

the sportspapers are wrong, just checked his official website.

Some day you will se him as Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite Idade Peso Altura Posiçăo :lol:
BTW, I guess Izecson is his second name, and not a surname, his father and brother have as well.

octatennis
06-06-2008, 09:42 PM
I never said it was a problem. I was curious to know the reason so many lesser known players had double barrel names when they presumably don't use them in everday life given that they often drop one of them as they become better known.

the southamerican players don't drop their surname when they become well-known, it is just because is more comfortable.

:cool:

Henry Chinaski
06-06-2008, 09:57 PM
At least they keep track of their heritage. I Ethiopia you just take you father's first name and use it as your surname and so on for your kids. If they were Ethiopians, it would be Novak Srdjan or Maria Yuri :lol: Or Venus and Serena Richard.

That's the old viking way. They do the same in Iceland today as far as I know.

Informative thread, thanks for the contributions.

dam0dred
06-06-2008, 11:01 PM
poor Alex :sad:

"Teehee, OMG there is gay in his name! ROTFL!!!!"

Please. I think you're the one we need to be feeling sorry for.

Henry Chinaski
06-07-2008, 02:47 AM
In fairness verde is spanish for green and greengay does sound pretty funny especially as it relates to a certain "punk" band that I despise.

Kolya
06-07-2008, 02:47 AM
Something a bit off topic but wasn't Albert Costa called Alberto at the start of his career?

Why did he drop the "o"?

GlennMirnyi
06-07-2008, 03:32 AM
By tradition we get two surnames. One from our dad and another from our mom's dad. Easy.

VolandriFan
06-07-2008, 07:43 AM
Marcel Granollers-Pujol, has dropped the Pujol now.

Such a pretty name :inlove:

Xavidbz
06-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Something a bit off topic but wasn't Albert Costa called Alberto at the start of his career?

Why did he drop the "o"?

Alberto is in Spanish, and Albert, in Catalan. Costa is Catalan, so maybe he preferred to be called as Albert despite his real name was Alberto (the one in the passports, etc.).

Action Jackson
06-07-2008, 09:02 AM
That's the old viking way. They do the same in Iceland today as far as I know.

Informative thread, thanks for the contributions.

Yes, the patronymic system is still used in Iceland and the Faroes and I only escaped it by 2 generations when it came to the last name.

*Viva Chile*
06-07-2008, 05:15 PM
In southamerica, central america and Mexico, we have two surnames too ;) , except in Argentina I think :shrug:

I will contribute with something more to this thread; do you notice that players with anglo names change their real name into how they usually being called in an unformally way when they become more "famous": for example Andrew Roddick and Andrew Murray, Michael Bryan, Robert Ginepri, Thomas Haas... I remember time ago (last year I think) that it also appeared Luis Horna as Lucho Horna in his ATP profile :lol: , but it only was for a few weeks...

For conclusion, I think the thing to drop the second last name it's only to facilitate the pronnountion by the umpires, journalists, etc. ;)

connectolove
06-07-2008, 06:12 PM
Us, Spaniards, are the result of a father and a mother therefore we carry both their last names. Even when women marry we do not change our last name. To change the last name is primitive, we do not belong to the husband. In the US not only your last name is changed but you become Mrs. John Smith! HORRENDOUS! primitive ...

When these players become famous they can use only one because two would be too long.

connectolove
06-07-2008, 06:15 PM
I actually know women in Spain that give their kids their own last name first, not the father's. I think that I know two French women that did the same thing.

*Viva Chile*
06-07-2008, 07:14 PM
I actually know women in Spain that give their kids their own last name first, not the father's. I think that I know two French women that did the same thing.

There's a law project to do the same here, but it's still in the Senate for the approval :o

Tennis-Engineer
06-07-2008, 07:15 PM
Marcel Granollers-Pujol, has dropped the Pujol now.



Old News.

Nathaliia
06-07-2008, 09:30 PM
There even was a case in European Tribunal about these surnames (known as Carlos Garcia Avello case). A person from Spain married another one from Belgium, Belgium didn't understand these spanish surnames regulations and all the shit started
I know in which book you read about this case :p.

Latranca
06-07-2008, 11:17 PM
I know your asking just for curiosity only, but it is a great opportunity to explain about this Spanish particularity and at the same time know other cultures. I know about how the Brazilians name their people with all the prefixes, suffixes, size suffixes etc. Very interesting

I think that the Spanish naming system has more positive thinks that the American.
Every person has the given name and two surnames.
The firs surname is the first surname of the father and the second surname is the first surname of the mother.
Examples:

Parents

John Smith Hamilton


Ann Ford Brown

Children


Elizabeth Smith Ford


The woman, when marry never changes their names. This is fair for women keeping their identity even when divorce.
I know, by experience, how frustrating is for woman get the records straight after a divorce and keep their own credit records.

By the way I’m a man

Also in this away, you keeping track of your heritage and honor you mother side……… and like in old times honor your clans.
There are still other particularities of the Spanish naming system.
The double given names like Juan Carlos Ferrero, are not two surnames. Juan Carlos are given names usually the father name and other……………or the grandfather and father given names. Sometimes you use only one name but when you have to fill forms or legal papers you have to put all.

This is, off course, the legal side but many people (especially the aristocracy, snobs and the kind) wanted to have more defined their roots. In this case they add more given names and surnames like:

They gave names of the grandfather and godfather,,, or the name of important people in your clan etc.

The way link women as married to the husband;
Ann Ford OF Smith.
But again, this is not the legal way only a social form in certain circles.

The formula: Elizabeth Smith-Ford…… is a practical way to be able filling the Anglo form and records without to given long explanation to stupid clerks.



In regards famous people, with the time (and this is clear also in the Anglo world too) they become well know only for one name or surname
Tennis: Roger, Bjorn, Peter, Lend, Martina, Steffi,
Other sport: Jordan, Tiger! Michael, Senna, Rossi, Zidane, Ali, Spitz, Faldo, Karin.
In Spain: Raul, Arancha, Severiano, Alonso

Now a question I remember years ago the commentators always said Chris Ever Lloyd or Chris Ever and never Chris Lloyd why?

CyBorg
06-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Now a question I remember years ago the commentators always said Chris Ever Lloyd or Chris Ever and never Chris Lloyd why?

She was married to John Lloyd, whom she later divorced.

Just like Justin Henin who was maried to a fellow named Hardenne.

Latranca
06-08-2008, 01:46 AM
Thanks!!

Rumour
06-08-2008, 09:10 AM
Interesting topic - I never knew so many tennis players actually had additional surnames. Traditionally in my culture, the first born of each gender is named after the corresponding grandparent on the father's side, then the second after the maternal grandparent. The third takes the name of the father's eldest sibling of the same gender gender, the fourth that of the mother's, the fifth that of the second oldest paternal sibling and so on...

All the children would then take the father's given name (not his last name) as their surname - like I do - although these days a lot of people simply use their first, often unique 'Christian' name together with the 'traditional' African one as their full name. A wife does take her husband's (first) name but then some of her children also retain her family's heritage, like I do as the second of several daughters (named after my maternal grandmother).

So what basically happens for the first born male is that his name is the reverse of his father's i.e. John Smith's oldest son would be called Smith John, whose own first baby boy would then be named John Smith :D It's all about keeping the ancestors alive in spirit so they never really die as their name goes on for infinity...

Kolya
06-08-2008, 11:06 AM
Interesting topic - I never knew so many tennis players actually had additional surnames. Traditionally in my culture, the first born of each gender is named after the corresponding grandparent on the father's side, then the second after the maternal grandparent. The third takes the name of the father's eldest sibling of the same gender gender, the fourth that of the mother's, the fifth that of the second oldest paternal sibling and so on...

All the children would then take the father's given name (not his last name) as their surname - like I do - although these days a lot of people simply use their first, often unique 'Christian' name together with the 'traditional' African one as their full name. A wife does take her husband's (first) name but then some of her children also retain her family's heritage, like I do as the second of several daughters (named after my maternal grandmother).

So what basically happens for the first born male is that his name is the reverse of his father's i.e. John Smith's oldest son would be called Smith John, whose own first baby boy would then be named John Smith :D It's all about keeping the ancestors alive in spirit so they never really die as their name goes on for infinity...

Are you Kenyan?

Rumour
06-08-2008, 11:18 AM
Are you Kenyan?
Of course ;)






Yes, I really am.

Ferrero Forever
06-08-2008, 12:24 PM
There are still other particularities of the Spanish naming system.
The double given names like Juan Carlos Ferrero, are not two surnames. Juan Carlos are given names usually the father name and other……………or the grandfather and father given names. Sometimes you use only one name but when you have to fill forms or legal papers you have to put all.

Ferrero is Juan Carlos Ferrero Donat, as you said 2 first names, 2 surnames, but dropped the Donat.

I have a hyphenated first name, and it drives me mental, so I just drop the second part of my name to avoid the hyphen. Much easier

Action Jackson
11-22-2009, 02:55 PM
- Paul Gerard Capdeville Castro

the last one is too funny :lol:

Almost as funny as Fidel Nadal.

Har-Tru
11-23-2009, 09:31 AM
Bored much AJ? :lol:

On the topic, it's a bloody pain in the arse for us Spaniards abroad... people keep thinking my first surname (the one that I normally use) is my second given name, and that my second surname is my surname. My mother would be proud but it's annoying for me... :o It's even harder for my sister, who lives in Italy, is married to an Italian man and has two given names and three surnames. :lol:

Goldenoldie
11-23-2009, 01:54 PM
I am currently going to classes to learn Spanish, and I've found more useful information about surnames from this thread than anything the teacher was able to tell us.
Thanks everyone.

Tzar
11-24-2009, 03:25 PM
weird laws they have in spain :p

for your ignorance, this is in Spain and All southamerica

You have your name, then your dad lastname and then your mom's lastname.

Tzar
11-24-2009, 03:28 PM
In southamerica, central america and Mexico, we have two surnames too ;) , except in Argentina I think :shrug:

I will contribute with something more to this thread; do you notice that players with anglo names change their real name into how they usually being called in an unformally way when they become more "famous": for example Andrew Roddick and Andrew Murray, Michael Bryan, Robert Ginepri, Thomas Haas... I remember time ago (last year I think) that it also appeared Luis Horna as Lucho Horna in his ATP profile :lol: , but it only was for a few weeks...

For conclusion, I think the thing to drop the second last name it's only to facilitate the pronnountion by the umpires, journalists, etc. ;)

I have plenty of argentinian friends and they have both last names too.

propi
11-24-2009, 04:56 PM
Bored much AJ? :lol:

On the topic, it's a bloody pain in the arse for us Spaniards abroad... people keep thinking my first surname (the one that I normally use) is my second given name, and that my second surname is my surname. My mother would be proud but it's annoying for me... :o It's even harder for my sister, who lives in Italy, is married to an Italian man and has two given names and three surnames. :lol:
Not a big problem.
What I usually do is just add the - between both surnames when I'm out of Spain or Hispanic countries where they understand the surnames logic; so it's like just one surname for them and no problem. I love my mum too much to drop her noble surname :p

Nole fan
11-24-2009, 11:38 PM
Spaniards only have one name (no middle name) and two surnames (first father's then mother's). We don't have endless surnames like someone said... But we usually use the first surname unofficially.